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Next entry: What Is The Bush Doctrine? Previous entry: Smoking gun

Infantilizing John McCain

Jonah Goldberg had an a-ha! moment yesterday, which, as most of Jonah’s a-ha! moments go, involved taking something that someone else thought of and putting it on the National Review’s website.  In this case, he figures out that John McCain doesn’t use e-mail because he was POWatized way back when. 

Yep. The day after 9/11, as part of its “get tough” makeover, the Obama campaign is mocking John McCain for not using a computer, without caring why he doesn’t use a computer. From the AP story about the computer illiterate ad:

“Our economy wouldn’t survive without the Internet, and cyber-security continues to represent one our most serious national security threats,” [Obama spokesman Dan] Pfeiffer said. “It’s extraordinary that someone who wants to be our president and our commander in chief doesn’t know how to send an e-mail.”

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by “extraordinary.” The reason he doesn’t send email is that he can’t use a keyboard because of the relentless beatings he received from the Viet Cong in service to our country. From the Boston Globe (March 4, 2000):

McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain’s severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain’s encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He’s an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can’t raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.

In a similar vein I guess it’s an outrage that the blind governor of New York David Paterson doesn’t know how to drive a car. After all, transportation issues are pretty important. How dare he serve as governor while being ignorant of what it’s like to navigate New York’s highways.

Such a scamp!  John Cole pretty effectively demolishes the idea the John McCain lacks the facility to use, at the very least, a Blackberry, mainly because he keeps fucking doing it.  But one of the oddest parts of the Noun-Verb-POW defense in this case is something that John McCain’s actually referred to on his own website - or would have, if he ever brought up his own military service:

But McCain surprised his doctors by making a dramatic comeback. With a ferocious determination to fly again and a tough physical therapy regimen, he got his wings back and not long after was awarded command of the Navy’s largest aviation squadron, VA-174, at Cecil Field in Florida. Blue-chip connections in the Nixon administration helped.

These days, when the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is asked about his qualifications to lead and manage, he points to his command of that squadron as proof he has the right stuff to be president.

Note that McCain got his wings back - after Vietnam left him an ABBA-loving maverick with a blank spot for real estate.  Meaning, of course, that McCain had the facility to fly a fucking jet. 

What you’ll notice about all of this is that after a couple of days of the McCain campaign becoming feminist crusaders, and months of them using his POW credentials to excuse virtually anything that comes out of his mouth (not to mention the past couple of weeks of declarations that Sarah Palin’s experience as a mayor and governor makes her roughly akin to Moses on the “leader of men across the desert of the soul” scale), the McCain campaign’s been entirely quiet on this alleged attack on his injuries.  This is because it’s not

As Jonah updates the post, it’s obvious that he has no idea what he’s arguing or what the truth is:

Some say, So what if he was handicapped? He could still learn how to send email.

Sure, but why would he? Bill Clinton sent two emails during his entire presidency and often admitted he didn’t know squat about the internet.

And in 2000, most people were still watching movies on VHS and listening to music on CDs.  If we judge the technological acuity people are supposed to have by what Bill Clinton could do, Wii Tennis is some unthinkably complex undertaking on par with the large hedron collider.

That’s absolutely true, I’m sure. But they need to use computers to get through life. McCain doesn’t. And the fact that he’s not blaming his disability hardly sounds like a serious indictment. If he did blame his disability, many of the same folks yelling at me would be complaining that McCain’s whining.

Now, I’d hardly be surprised if McCain could type for short stretches and all that. The point is, that it’s perfectly understandable why he wouldn’t get in the habit of it.

Of course, the issue isn’t how long McCain can type.  It’s that he never learned how to use a computer and admits it openly.  And then, of course:

On the other hand: I don’t know what to make of this interview with the New York Times. He sounds awfully web savvy in it, which makes the Obama ad sound unfair. And if you read it closely, it sounds like he knows how to surf with a mouse, but doesn’t do much by way of typing.

So, you see, John McCain can’t use a computer or any sort of e-mailing device for any amount of time at all, except that he probably can, but Bill Clinton didn’t, but he actually can use the internet, which makes the ad wrong in the completely opposite direction, making the entire offense disappear, so in turn, this is all de facto fascism. 

It’s telling that Jonah, along with the dozens of conservatives who’ve hopped on board this crazy train, are turning the Republican ticket into two innocent babes in the wood who can’t stand the slings and arrows of even the most indirect criticisms of them or their capacities.  Should you criticize Sarah Palin, you hate mothers and women and hunters and hockey and…well, I’m not a particularly big hockey fan.  Criticism of John McCain is slapping a prisoner of war in the face, telling him that his service means nothing.  The politically correct oversensitivity on display is turning McCain and Palin from the bold reformers they never were into sad little children, constantly needing protection from the scrapes and scratches of the world lest they get a boo-boo or come home crying about their hurt feelings too often. 

If Jonah and crew were around in 1974, they were the kind of people who would motivate McCain to heal and become a pilot again, convinced of all the things he couldn’t do.  Now, they’re the people demanding his binkie and naptime before he gets too cranky.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 11:11 AM • (56) Comments

Sure, but why would he? Bill Clinton sent two emails during his entire presidency and often admitted he didn’t know squat about the internet.

The historians out there will correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it true that Abraham Lincoln never sent a single email in his whole life, and in fact never once even mentioned the Internet during his entire presidency?  In fact, if you look at the records of all of our founding fathers and most revered leaders right up to the end of the 20th century, NONE of them knew how to use the Internet! 

Therefore, knowledge of computers and digital communications is not at all important for the POTUS.

~~~

Unrelated devil’s advocate question—if McCain “doesn’t do the internet or email”, then wtf is he so occupied with on that Blackberry of his?  Is that what a Blackberry is for, to send emails and use web applications on the go?

Comment #1: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  11:19 AM

Brickbreaker.

Comment #2: Jesse Taylor  on  09/13  at  11:21 AM

I’ve seen about 300 different right wing trolls and blogs already yammering about this.

Are conservatives like the borg? They all seem to start talking about whatever NRO says about five minutes after it’s written. Like no original thoughts at all.

Comment #3: Ben D.  on  09/13  at  11:21 AM

should say “Isn’t that what a Blackberry is for…”, sorry.

Comment #4: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  11:22 AM

Unrelated devil’s advocate question—if McCain “doesn’t do the internet or email”, then wtf is he so occupied with on that Blackberry of his?

Well . . . You know how little kids just love to play with Mommy or Daddy’s cellphone, right? . . .

Comment #5: Dan S.  on  09/13  at  11:25 AM

I’ve seen about 300 different right wing trolls and blogs already yammering about this.
Are conservatives like the borg?

Honestly, I feel like this may be what actually works for them.  You develop a particular talking point, and then you flood EVERYTHING with it (from the Sunday morning political chat shows to half-literate blog comments) until people can’t help but be aware of it and talk about it.  Thus, you control the discussion.

This is the sort of thing I honestly think that the Dems should be doing if we want to step it up and go on the attack.

Comment #6: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  11:30 AM

We’re too individualistic for that, I’m afraid.

Comment #7: Ben D.  on  09/13  at  11:33 AM

Perhaps, but then sometimes I feel that I’m too individualistic to wake up at 6:30 and trudge into an office every morning.  Still gotta eat, though.

Comment #8: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  11:34 AM

“It’s telling that Jonah, along with the dozens of conservatives who’ve hopped on board this crazy train, are turning the Republican ticket into two innocent babes in the wood who can’t stand the slings and arrows of even the most indirect criticisms of them or their capacities.”

...and yet, at the same time they are supposed to be the most experienced and knowledgeable candidates for POTUS and VPOTUS in the entire history of the American Republic — hardened, decisive, brilliant leaders who will stare down the bad people and bad countries of this world and through shear willpower will right all wrongs and triumphantly lead Mankind to a New Era or Peace and Freedom which will lead directly to the Second Coming of Christ and Our Ascension to Heaven.

Pretty cool example of Doublethink…except when it all goes off the rails and takes us straight into Hell…

Comment #9: MikeEss  on  09/13  at  11:35 AM

“Note that McCain got his wings back - after Vietnam left him an ABBA-loving maverick with a blank spot for real estate.  Meaning, of course, that McCain had the facility to fly a fucking jet.”

And you don’t think his military injuries got worse as he aged? He can’t move his arms above his shoulder; presumably he could do that when he flew a jet. Please, keep being flip and disrespectful about McCain’s injuries. The contrast is doing wonders for Republicans.

“So, you see, John McCain can’t use a computer or any sort of e-mailing device for any amount of time at all, except that he probably can, but Bill Clinton didn’t, but he actually can use the internet, which makes the ad wrong in the completely opposite direction, making the entire offense disappear, so in turn, this is all de facto fascism.”

Well, it makes Obama’s “tough” ad look completely stupid. 1) McCain has a pretty good excuse if he can’t use email. 2) It’s not all that important to his job. 3) He actually knows quite a bit about email and the technological issues surrounding it. Sounds like a pretty good defense to me. The ad is wrong in just about every way it could be wrong. Is that a good thing, in your book?

“Should you criticize Sarah Palin, you hate mothers and women and hunters and hockey and…well, I’m not a particularly big hockey fan.  Criticism of John McCain is slapping a prisoner of war in the face, telling him that his service means nothing.  The politically correct oversensitivity on display is turning McCain and Palin from the bold reformers they never were into sad little children”

Obama’s the one who keeps complaining that people are disrespecting his community organizing. He’s the one who keeps insisting people don’t like him because of the way he looks. He’s the one who keeps talking, and talking, and talking about not being bullied. Who’s the whiner?

McCain’s POW story is the most compelling part of his personal narrative, obviously. If you think he’s milking it to death, then you probably shouldn’t insult him on an issue that has a documented relation to the beatings he took as a POW. If you do, then of course people are going to bring it up. And your candidate will take a sizable political hit.

Comment #10: Oppo  on  09/13  at  11:37 AM

True. Though I guess lipstickgate has officially flopped since they’re changing the subject.

So how many “the end of Obama” stories have we had since the primary?

First “plagarizing” was going to end him.

Then Rezko was the end.

Then Rev. Wright would totally kill of his political carreer.

Then bittergate was going to get him.

Then it was arugula-gate.

Then it was his “arrogance”.

Then it was because he was too popular and a “celebrity”.

Then it was the PUMAs.

The it was lipstickgate.

Now it’s keyboardgate.

The Republicans really can’t find a silver bullet, can they? It’s not like Kerry (he chose the wrong cheese! And he looks FRENCH! HAHA!) or Gore (he said he invented the internet, HAHA!) or Dukakis (Belgian Endives, Tank ride, HAHA!)

It must really grate on them.

Comment #11: Ben D.  on  09/13  at  11:38 AM

Oh, I forgot the Bill Ayers non-story too.

Comment #12: Ben D.  on  09/13  at  11:38 AM

And you don’t think his military injuries got worse as he aged?

No, per McCain’s own promotional materials, as quoted by Jesse above.  I think, btw, that the McCain campaign should cap their Trolling For Keychains program at people who are actually literate.

It’s not all that important to his job.

Wait, so nobody is allowed to bring up anything in reference to a political campaign if it’s not directly relevant to the candidate’s job description?  I would make a list of anti-Obama talking points this renders verboten, except I’d probably get carpal tunnel from all the typing.

He actually knows quite a bit about email and the technological issues surrounding it.

Except that, according to the candidate himself, he doesn’t.  I know that McCain and a good deal of his supporters came of age in an era where no recording technology of any kind existed, and there was no such thing as a paper trail or a way to go research the things someone said or did way back when 2 weeks ago.  But McCain has said himself on many quite recent occasions that he is computer illiterate and either has no desire to learn more or is “trying” to catch up* except actually not really.

Obama’s the one who keeps complaining that people are disrespecting his community organizing. He’s the one who keeps insisting people don’t like him because of the way he looks.

Cite on both, please? 

On the first, I’d say that the people who have been vocal about the community organizing jabs are the larger liberal community, and in fact even a lot of people not associated in any way with this election or “liberals” or Democrats, but who understand that mocking community organizers is like mocking teachers, or doctors, or volunteers.  WTF?  Who is callous enough to mock such people, and what does that say about the speaker? 

On the second, I have to say that I have NEVER heard Obama cry racism so far.  NEVER.  Even in response to attacks that are, in fact, racist.  Even when he could quite legitimately call people out for racist attacks.  There has been a lot of discussion of those racist attacks in liberal circles, but then Obama != all liberals everywhere, all the time.  You guys might be borg, but we’re not.

*A decade ago it was acceptable for older people to talk about “trying” to learn about computers.  In the intervening years it’s become an obsolete concept as EVERYONE now has to use computers all the time, in their everyday lives.  My 70 year old boss uses a PC at work to do just about everything I do.

Comment #13: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  11:55 AM

Actually, this defense of McCain got around because most of us read Glen Reynolds where there are some major posts on the subject.  My favorite involves this from a Forbes article back in 2000:

“In certain ways, McCain was a natural Web candidate. Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate’s savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop. ‘She’s a whiz on the keyboard, and I’m so laborious,’ McCain admits.”

It seems that the guy who set up Howard Dean’s famous internet campaign back in 2004 credits McCain with being his inspiration, too.

So the facts are against Obama on this one.  It was a really, really dumb ad.

Comment #14: Strick  on  09/13  at  12:01 PM

To be fair to non-users of computers, I have in years past worked under CIO’s, who were in charge of the Information Technology Department and yet were barely competent to operate a personal computer.  In virtually every case their primary experiences with computers dated back to mainframes and “dumb” terminals, which is a very different environment from what we take for granted in the world of PCs, Macs, Windows, Linux, OS X, etc.

OTOH, the rise of browser-based user interfaces and the World Wide Web has drastically reduced the technical prowess needed to do an awful lot of stuff with computers.

I suspect strongly that in McCain’s case, not being “able” to use a computer — which would have equated to not being “able” to use a typewriter back in the day — is actually somewhat of a point of pride, not just for a person in the upper echelon of mangement/chain-of-command, but in McCain’s specific case he was pilot, The Man In Control of Really Important Instruments Of Death, who shouldn’t have to be bothered with trivial things that smack of clerical work or “women’s work”.

Unfortunately there is probably a significant segment of American society that feels the same way and would excuse this “controversy” out of hand…

Comment #15: MikeEss  on  09/13  at  12:05 PM

Obama’s the one who keeps complaining that people are disrespecting his community organizing. He’s the one who keeps insisting people don’t like him because of the way he looks.

I bet you can’t find a source for either of these claims.  Because you’re a worthless liar.  But, hey, anything to get out of voting for the black guy, right?

Dick.

Comment #16: Bradley  on  09/13  at  12:05 PM

8 years ago Forbes magazine McCain was tech savvy. (Keeping in mind that 8 years ago all you had to do to be tech savvy was know what a DVD player was or have an AOL account, and that Forbes is a financial magazine, not a political magazine or a tech magazine - i.e. it’s like reading in Us Weekly that Sarah Palin is a feminist.)

Less than a year ago, McCain himself bragged that he was so computer illiterate that he couldn’t say whether he used a Mac or a PC, and that his “people” took care of all his computing needs.

Hmmmm…

Comment #17: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  12:08 PM

I work in IT. My team lead has severe back issues that have impacted his ability to use his hands. He uses voice activated software. It’s pretty basic and pretty common these days.

Comment #18: broce  on  09/13  at  12:10 PM

The more I think about it the more 2000 seems like the internet dark ages compared to now.

Comment #19: Ben D.  on  09/13  at  12:14 PM

What’s funny is that the McCain defenders above want us to believe simultaneously that McCain is a technology pioneer who can’t use computers but does but can’t but wants to but he’s a POW so just stop talking about it. 

John McCain said he can’t use e-mail or a computer.  John McCain’s also said he’s trying to learn how to use them, to his credit.  Also to his credit, it’s the one thing left on earth he hasn’t directly blamed on his time as a POW, although given that he’s opened the floodgates to such a thing, it’s not surprising that his footsoldiers have done so for him.

Comment #20: Jesse Taylor  on  09/13  at  12:17 PM

You guys (and the whole left blogosphere) are being deliberately obtuse anout that picture of McCain using his blackberry.

He’s using it as a phone, ferchrissakes, not trying to push those tiny little buttons.

Maybe he can use a keyboard, maybe he can’t, I don’t know, but to say that that picture proves anything at all about his manual dexterity is just dishonest.


And it makes us all look silly.

Comment #21: mario  on  09/13  at  12:23 PM

Shorter Oppo: POW Bitches!

Comment #22: Rob  on  09/13  at  12:27 PM

@ Broce - yeah, you’d think that, being as wealthy and politically prominent (“important”, even) as McCain is, he’d have been the first to sign up for something like that, probably even before it was widely available.  I mean, he was chair of the telecommunications committee, right?  He should have been the guinea pig for a system like that! 

Except he didn’t, and he wasn’t.  Because he doesn’t give a shit about computers—they’re for nerds and lackeys!  Expecting him to be an early adopter of voice activated software is like expecting him to be an early adopter of epicurious.com or the Swiffer; why would he need any of that junk when he’s too important to be doing work fit only for a servant?

Comment #23: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  12:28 PM

He’s using it as a phone, ferchrissakes

Why would you buy a $500 gadget meant for wireless data communications and use it only as a phone?  They give phones away free when you sign up for a cellular plan.

Or is it related to the 26 houses, the million dollar ferragamo loafers, etc?  Is McCain just all about the bling?

Comment #24: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  12:31 PM

frauds

Comment #25: Sunflower  on  09/13  at  12:33 PM

Not really totally off topic- but if McCain regained his ability to fly after he was released, and went back to work, what is his 100% disability for?

Comment #26: Ivyfree  on  09/13  at  12:41 PM

a remarkable,perhaps even extraordunary post

Comment #27: corwin  on  09/13  at  12:46 PM

“Less than a year ago, McCain himself bragged that he was so computer illiterate that he couldn’t say whether he used a Mac or a PC, and that his ‘people’ took care of all his computing needs.”

I’m not sure how that’s a contradiction.  He’s readily admitted other people use the computer (and Blackberries) on his behalf.  He’s hardly the only executive I know doing that.  The best people I know (including some senior software execs) find their time is best spent focusing on issues and dealing with people, not messing with that great time waster, email.

Comment #28: Strick  on  09/13  at  01:05 PM

He can’t move his arms above his shoulder; presumably he could do that when he flew a jet.

Ah! now there’s your problem right there, you’re not supposed to glue the keyboard to the ceiling

Please, keep being flip and disrespectful about McCain’s injuries. The contrast is doing wonders for Republicans

No problem, got any purple heart Band-Aids left over from 2004 that I could borrow?

Comment #29: Jeff452  on  09/13  at  01:11 PM

Opoponax, even if McCain really did pay retail for his BlackBerry rather than get it as a gift from a lobbyist, the difference between $500 and free for him is at MOST like the difference between the espresso I buy with and without the extra shot, a fifty-cent gap.

Comment #30: Unree  on  09/13  at  01:15 PM

I’m not sure how that’s a contradiction.  He’s readily admitted other people use the computer (and Blackberries) on his behalf.  He’s hardly the only executive I know doing that.  The best people I know (including some senior software execs) find their time is best spent focusing on issues and dealing with people, not messing with that great time waster, email.

So, is the excuse that he’s an executive, or that he’s a POW?  Or does he actually know how to use the computer?  Or is he learning?

Comment #31: Jesse Taylor  on  09/13  at  01:15 PM

Except he didn’t, and he wasn’t.  Because he doesn’t give a shit about computers—they’re for nerds and lackeys!  Expecting him to be an early adopter of voice activated software is like expecting him to be an early adopter of epicurious.com or the Swiffer; why would he need any of that junk when he’s too important to be doing work fit only for a servant?

From some of the clients I’ve worked with who had issues with computers, this attitude toward computers is often a front for not wanting to betray the level of intimidation many computer novices/illiterates have towards computers and other modern technology gadgets. 

Though I’ve seen a higher level of this intimidation from those who are around 50 and up, you’d be surprised at how many people even in their 20s are fearful that touching one button or even the machine may cause it to go haywire or cause it to self-destruct.  IME, I found this attitude more pronounced among those who came of age before personal computers became commonplace. 

Keep in mind that it is far easier to learn about computers and other technological gadgets if you have grown up with it from a young age and it became an integrated part of your daily life. 

Most of the kids in my age group who did not have the privilege of having regular access to a computer back in the 1980s and early 90’s.  Keep in mind this was back during a time when computers were only available in wealthier school systems or in well-off homes.  I was privileged to have attended a public urban magnet high school where computers were not only available, but also where there were many hardcore techies to hang out with who helped me learn about computers. 
Even with such an environment, there were still a minute handful of high school classmates who were so intimidated by computers that they literally shuddered in terror at the mere mention of the topic….like the classmate who graduated a year before me who played on the football team. 

Most friends who attended regular public or poorly funded catholic high schools at the time didn’t really start to use computers until they entered college or the corporate workforce if using computers was a part of their jobs. 

Thus, I am wary of casting negative aspersions on those who are not computer literate….especially if it is done by those who had the privilege of growing up with computers from a young age against those who didn’t have such a privilege such as those who came of age before computers….or those who didn’t have the socio-economic privilege to have regular access to one as was the experience of most of my elementary and junior high school classmates who weren’t able to gain admission to the public urban magnet or well-funded private schools with such access. 

That is not to say I am letting McCain completely off the hook as he has had the socio-economic privilege to gain access to the resources to learn…..just that I have some understanding of how much harder it can be for someone who came of age before computers became commonplace tools we use in our daily lives.

Comment #32: exholt  on  09/13  at  01:17 PM

“The best people I know (including some senior software execs) find their time is best spent focusing on issues and dealing with people, not messing with that great time waster, email.”

...and the best people I know use the computer, and access to information unfiltered by people who work for them, as a way to independently maintain their own understanding of things as a crosscheck against those who might want to twist reality in their own favor. 

Isolation from reality is one of the greatest enemies of a good executive, as McCain himself amply proves…

Comment #33: MikeEss  on  09/13  at  01:30 PM

“So, is the excuse that he’s an executive, or that he’s a POW?  Or does he actually know how to use the computer?  Or is he learning?”

Neither, no excuse is necessary.  The Obama ad claims McCain can’t send an email.  It’s false.  McCain says he can in the Forbes article, it’s just faster to let other people do it for him because of his old injuries.  More likely that the more recent quotes taken out of context. 

As for executives, whether they can use a computer or not, wise ones quite often don’t as a matter of choice due to demands on their time.

Don’t confuse doesn’t use a computer with can’t use a computer.

Comment #34: Strick  on  09/13  at  01:30 PM

MikeEss, I think if you look at the interview McCain gave the NYT earlier this year, he reads his email and looks at different blogs, etc. for himself, he just can’t used the keyboard or mouse that well himself.  He is trying to learn how to overcome his handicap.  Doesn’t sound that isolated to me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/us/politics/13text-mccain.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

As for executives, I’ve consulted some of the largest corporations in the world.  I’d be happy to compare the executives I know with the ones you know.  wink

That completely misses the point.  The simple truth is, this is a crappy, counter-productive thing to attack McCain on.  There are plenty of issues he’s vulnerable on.  This only makes Obama look damned foolish because it’s so easy to false.

Comment #35: Strick  on  09/13  at  01:39 PM

Well, Strick, you’re probably right that we need to get this kind of stupid argument behind us and get hack to the important stuff…

...you know, like how Alaska’s proximity to Russia makes Sarah Palin an expert on foreign policy, and how being a governor from an oil-producing state makes her the most knowledgeable person on energy issues in the country…maybe even the whole world!

Added to the incredible qualifications for POTUS McCain received while being beaten as a POW, you’ve got the single most qualified presidential ticket since the formation of the United States of America!!!...

Comment #36: MikeEss  on  09/13  at  01:58 PM

Allow me a short giggle at Jonah Goldberg thinking that McCain was held prisoner by the Viet Cong.  And we’re supposed to believe these people when they swear we coulda TOTALLY won Vietnam1

I also love the people whose defense of John McCain (possibly) using a BlackBerry solely as a phone is that he’s so filthy rich that he probably bought it so he could look cool.

Oh, and the point isn’t whether or not McCain has adaptive software to let him use a computer.  The point is that he’s out of touch with ordinary Americans and has no idea how we live.  Someone who would casually drop $500 on a BlackBerry just to use it as a phone is seriously, majorly out of touch.

Comment #37: Mnemosyne  on  09/13  at  02:05 PM

Strick-

And those executives that choose to eschew computers?  They have people making up for that.  Their executive assistants are filtering their email, typing and emailing their dictated correspondence (and said dictation, depending on the company, is probably stored electronically on the company’s servers); maintaining their electronic databases of information and contacts; updating their electronic calendars, and performing all sorts of other wizardry with computers.  Those “wise” executives who avoid computers can only do so because they are in a position of privilege to delegate those computer-oriented tasks to other people.  And frankly, I’d bet most of them have Blackberries, which from what I can tell, are pretty much palm-sized mini-computers.

I don’t care if McCain can send an email or dictates one to his secretary or looks at computers as evil, modern contraptions.  What I do care about is whether or not he understands the importance of the internet, if he understands how thoroughly modern life will continue to be changed by evolving computer technology. 

(I confess I find McCain so abhorrent on so many other issues that I haven’t looked into his understanding of the “Digital Age.”  Though if his stance on net neutrality is any indication, I doubt I’ll like his vision for the future of technology.)

Comment #38: Karinna A.  on  09/13  at  02:18 PM

I think McCain shot himself in the foot trying to play up his “regular guy” cred by saying his wife has to show him how to use the computer.  If the guy can fly a fighter jet, he could probably figure out a web browser in about five minutes. 

He has subsequently, repeatedly stated that he knows how to use a computer, but that his wife uses it mostly at home and his staff does it for him at work.  Which probably makes sense because using a computer is probably pretty painful for him.

In any case, Obama’s campaign totally overstates the point with regard to computer use damaging McCain’s ability to handle issues of “cyber-security.”  Sending e-mail and browsing the web qualifies you to make “cyber-security” policy in much the same way that operating the thermostat in your house qualifies you to service the cooling system on the space shuttle.  Based on the fact that they use the term “cyber-security,” I’d guess the Obama campaign knows very little about the subject themselves.

I’m sure all the people here who have worked IT and tech support know this much better than I do, but the people who know how to use front-end computer applications really know very little about how computers work.  There are a lot of people who can use Internet Explorer and Word, but will get completely confused if they have to mess around under the hood at all. 

I doubt any politician has more than a basic grasp of the issues involved in securing digital infrastructure, and it’s not necessary for them to.  This is why we have specialized agencies to deal with this stuff.

Comment #39: mitchforth  on  09/13  at  02:18 PM

Doughy Pantload can use the internets, and he’s a fucktard.

Comment #40: pseudonymous in nc  on  09/13  at  02:29 PM

Allow me a short giggle at Jonah Goldberg thinking that McCain was held prisoner by the Viet Cong.  And we’re supposed to believe these people when they swear we coulda TOTALLY won Vietnam1

I had a laugh at that, too. Goldberg is apparently refraining from using internet research tools out of technophobic solidarity to McCain.

Comment #41: Brandy  on  09/13  at  02:42 PM

“I don’t care if McCain can send an email or dictates one to his secretary or looks at computers as evil, modern contraptions.  What I do care about is whether or not he understands the importance of the internet, if he understands how thoroughly modern life will continue to be changed by evolving computer technology.”

I believe that’s self evident from McCain’s having originated the revolution in internet campaigning and the legislation from his era as chairman of the Telecom subcommittee.  Remember it’s not enough to think this stuff is important, the proof is in doing something about it.

As I said, the NYT article makes it evident that McCain gets around the internet for himself.  You can look at the evidence or wild wanna-believe-the-worst speculation, help yourself.

Comment #42: Strick  on  09/13  at  02:59 PM

Though I’ve seen a higher level of this intimidation from those who are around 50 and up, you’d be surprised at how many people even in their 20s are fearful that touching one button or even the machine may cause it to go haywire or cause it to self-destruct.

Which I’ll admit is sometimes me in the face of what I snarkily call “Web 2.0 Kitchen Gadgets”—the super-digital super smart kitchen appliances that look all futuristic and shit and seem to always be really unintuitive to people who don’t spend half their time flicking through the Williams Sonoma catalog and watching the Food Network.  I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out my mom’s swank new coffee maker, then gave up because I was afraid I would ruin the coffee or break the machine.  My whole family mocked me.  I responded by turning up my nose and insisting that french press coffee is about a million times better than drip, anyway.

So I do get this.  It’s just that, well, if ultra-wired coffee makers were the driving force of our economy, and I was running for President, I would make a point of learning to use one.

IME, I found this attitude more pronounced among those who came of age before personal computers became commonplace… Keep in mind that it is far easier to learn about computers and other technological gadgets if you have grown up with it from a young age and it became an integrated part of your daily life.

This is something I don’t really buy anymore now that I’ve entered the workforce (and even before, in college, when all but the absolute oldest and most ivory towerish of my professors were as computer savvy as I was).  Everyone I’ve worked with for at least the last several years has been fully able to use a PC to do all the usual office-related tasks.  Even the ones who are 60+.

The last time I remember running into an older techphobic person who was still in the work force was 5-6 years ago when the museum bookshop I worked in updated the registers to run on a PC interface.  Of course about half my coworkers were retired ladies in their 70’s who wanted a little extra income, many of whose only other jobs were back in the 50’s or 60’s before they got married.  The unsophisticated early 90’s registers were hard enough, so the thought of a more complex machine intimidated the crap out of them.

Comment #43: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  03:01 PM

Gee, if I weren’t so lazy, I’d dig out my first comment on the first thread about McCain’s computer illiteracy, which was something to the effect of “maybe he can’t do a lot of computer stuff or finds it difficult because of his physical limitations?”.

I still suspect that plays in, but any body with the slightest training in OT, PT, ergonomics, or orthopedics has already had that same thought.  Trust me.

Comment #44: Ms Kate  on  09/13  at  03:01 PM

Oh, and just because he could be sufficiently rehabilitated to fly a jet doesn’t mean he has retained those abilities.  Damaged body parts sometimes can be rehabilitated when somebody is young, but age more quickly.

Comment #45: Ms Kate  on  09/13  at  03:04 PM

Which probably makes sense because using a computer is probably pretty painful for him.

I would buy this if, in that famous interview during the primaries, his answer to the PC or Mac question had been, “Well, my old war injuries prevent me from using a computer much, but we have a Dell at home, and we bought Meagan and Bridget each a PowerBook last year for school stuff.” 

But it wasn’t.  It was “derrrrr, uuhhhh, I think my wife handles that stuff?”

Comment #46: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  03:06 PM

If McCain doesn’t know the difference between Sunni and Shiite, why should Jonah bother to learn the difference between the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army?

Comment #47: Loneoak  on  09/13  at  03:11 PM

Q: What websites if any do you look at regularly?

Mr. McCain: Brooke and Mark show me Drudge, obviously, everybody watches, for better or for worse, Drudge. Sometimes I look at Politico. Sometimes RealPolitics, sometimes.

(Mrs. McCain and Ms. Buchanan both interject: “Meagan’s blog!”)

Mr. McCain: Excuse me, Meagan’s blog. And we also look at the blogs from Michael and from you that may not be in the newspaper, that are just part of your blog.

Q: But do you go on line for yourself?

Mr. McCain: They go on for me. I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don’t expect to be a great communicator, I don’t expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need – including going to my daughter’s blog first, before anything else.

Q: Do you use a blackberry or email?

Mr. McCain: No

Mark Salter: He uses a BlackBerry, just ours.

Mr. McCain: I use the Blackberry, but I don’t e-mail, I’ve never felt the particular need to e-mail. I read e-mails all the time, but the communications that I have with my friends and staff are oral and done with my cell phone.

Comment #48: Dan S.  on  09/13  at  04:17 PM

In other words, this is yet another flip-flop by McCain.  He claimed he could use a computer at one point and then portrayed himself as computer illiterate at the debates a few months later.

What are we up to now, about 75 or so times that McCain has taken one stand and then taken the opposite side as few months later?

Comment #49: Mnemosyne  on  09/13  at  07:01 PM

Who is callous enough to mock such people, and what does that say about the speaker?

Giuliani.  I can certainly understand why he hates community organizers.  They got in his face when, as mayor, he waged war on the poor.  I bet the average community organizer has done more good in a single year than Giuliani has done in his entire miserable life.

Comment #50: keshmeshi  on  09/13  at  07:36 PM

This is something I don’t really buy anymore now that I’ve entered the workforce (and even before, in college, when all but the absolute oldest and most ivory towerish of my professors were as computer savvy as I was).  Everyone I’ve worked with for at least the last several years has been fully able to use a PC to do all the usual office-related tasks.  Even the ones who are 60+.

During my first two years in undergrad, I was one of only a handful of students on my floor who had a computer…which meant that most classmates had to wait in long-lines during midterms and finals to type up their papers.  Add to that the fact that most of my classmates at our private liberal arts college were not technically inclined and careless at times causing several college lab computers to be put out of commission and you ended up with even longer lines and understandably frayed tempers. 

What was odd was that the vast majority of the first years had the resources to get a computer…they just didn’t bother as they figured that they didn’t need one because they were majoring in arts, music, humanities, or social sciences…...they thought computers were for the science and aspiring engineering types(those in the 3-2 Liberal Arts/Engineering program).  Computer usage didn’t really become mainstreamed among most of us beyond going to the computer labs to complete academic work until my junior and senior years in college.  It was only during those years that computers became seen as important and inexpensive enough for the vast majority of classmates to buy/rent it for themselves. 

Moreover, though most Profs had computers on their desks….most of them had so much trouble with them as the usage of personal computers had only just been introduced outside of the math/science/engineering departments along with inevitable OS issues (Mac OS 7 & 8/Windows NT 3.5.1) that I lost count of how many times my Profs asked me for computer advice when I went to their office hours. 

Though you have a point that computer usage difficulties/intimidation has declined among older workers over the last decade….I still found quite a few older and even some younger co-workers who have severe usage difficulties/intimidated….albeit in more senior/prestigious positions/departments who become the bane of the IT department’s existence.  Three areas IME are partners/older attorneys in law firms, senior management/supervisors in financial corporations, and to some extent, academics in non-technical science fields*.  It is one reason why so many jokes are cracked about the supposed intelligence of lawyers, business managers, and non-technical science academics among a sizable portion of the computer/engineering community. 

* Said lesser extent mainly because most of the computer difficulties I witnessed the Profs had were due more to personal computers still being relatively uncommon during my first two years in college so that was understandable.

Comment #51: exholt  on  09/13  at  08:24 PM

Anyone else a bit creeped out by the assertion in the 2000 Forbes interview that his wife Cindy does his typing for him?

I’m just saying, she’s an heiress worth hundreds of millions, he’s been living off her fortune for decades—and he’s got her of all people doing his most mundane clerical work?  Even granting that he probably is a lousy typist, handicapped due to old war injuries, yaddayadda, it isn’t ike they don’t each have a personal secretary or three.  It does fit into the traditional wife-as-servant role, I guess.  Though it was probably a lie anyway.  God, that guy’s a creep. 

Hmmm.  Known for violent outbursts and a stormy temper.  Holds grudges.  Vindictive.  Assigns his wife menial tasks.  Berates her and humiliates her in public.  Portrays himself as a man’s man even as he knows full well that his success is utterly dependent on her fortune and her family’s good graces.  I’ll be amazed if he’s never hit her.

Yeah, I’m going there.  He’s not good people, fuck him.

Comment #52: RobW  on  09/13  at  08:33 PM

The more I think about it the more 2000 seems like the internet dark ages compared to now.

My friends who racked up their wrists with Carpal Tunnel syndrome were using Dragon Naturally Speaking to communicate with their computers long before 2000.

Comment #53: Hector B.  on  09/13  at  09:31 PM

Exholt, I think things changed really fast on the “access to a PC” front.  I went to a boarding school my last 2 years of high school (‘97-‘99).  That first year, there were 4 computer labs on campus, none of which had the web (though they did have Telnet).  Two in the main high school area, and one in each of the dorms.  Each lab had 5-10 PCs.  For a student body of about 400.  Some math/science oriented kids had their own computers, especially those who were particularly interested in comp sci.  Senior year the school put in two more labs, replaced all the old computers with new PC’s that could deal with the web, and added another 10 or so units per lab.  They also put in a T1 internet connection, though there were no ethernet hookups in dorm rooms.  A lot more students brought PC’s from home that year, and it wasn’t just the math/sci kids anymore. 

The following year I went away to college, and everything had again grown by leaps and bounds.  We had ethernet hookups in our rooms, and just about everyone had their own desktop PC. 

By the time I finally graduated in ‘05, the hardware and internet connection stuff was pretty much universal for everyone.  A lot of people brought laptops to class.  Even liberal arts courses had web-based components, like handouts available as PDF’s on blackboard, slide presentations and projected notes done via computer (this is an area where I remember older profs having a lot of trouble, I’ll admit), and email communication (within reason) with profs. 

Everything changed somewhere between 1997 and 2003-2004, and it changed a lot, and FAST.  A lot of the time you’d go away for the summer, come back, and the campus computing setup had completely changed.

Funny story - I remember some sort of assembly my junior year of high school where some computer science professor droned on for ages about how computers were going to change the way we learned, participated in classes, and dealt with educational issues.  I thought it was absolute B.S.

Comment #54: The Opoponax  on  09/13  at  09:54 PM

Exholt, I think things changed really fast on the “access to a PC” front.  I went to a boarding school my last 2 years of high school (’97-’99).

The Opoponax,

Those years coincided with my last two years in college.  Probably a reason for the differing perceptions. 

In my first year in college, most lab computers were running a networked version of Win 3.11 for workgroups or NT 3.1….which looked very similar to each other or Mac OS 7 something.  Our internet applications consisted of Mosaic/Netscape, gopher, ftp, and telnet to access our Vax/VMS accounts to check email via elm/pine and if we wished…browse the web via a text web browser known as lynx. 

Though we had dorm connections, the fact network cards* was an extra pricey expense and many notebooks/desktops came with 2.4k (common), 9.6k (expensive), 14.4k (~$100+), and 28.k (~$200) modems meant that some of us ended up using a terminal application to use our vax/vms accounts to check our emails, browse the web, look up books at the college library, and if we had access to another unix account for academic/work reasons….using ircII to chat. 

By the time I graduated, the mainstreaming of computer access accelerated…..and I was on my second notebook after the one I used in college became too hopelessly obsolete and bit the dust sometime during 1998.  From that point, the level of access did accelerate as computing technology advanced and the accompanying operating systems piled on the “features” accordingly.  Though I kept up with the technology due to my IT/Ecommerce jobs, personally I continued to use my computers on a 3 year minimum lifecycle before contemplating replacement though in practice…it tended to be more like 5+ years due to my desire to stretch things out as long as possible. 

One of the reasons why many of my older coworkers….and even some of the younger ones were so intimidated by computers other than the “tech factor” was the accelerated pace of technology to the point it was hard for even the younger techies to keep up.  The updates to the operating systems, software applications, and more can be a struggle to keep up unless one is an extreme tech enthusiast.  One example of how this can become frustrating was how a group of co-workers who just got their fresh Win2k MCSE certifications ended up grousing when they found that WinXP was being introduced a year later meaning they will have to study and retake the test to be certified in XP…especially when the senior management at our financial company seemed quite enthusiastic about adopting it as the new standard OS for the entire firm. 

As for that CS Prof’s droning speech…from what you described…..he predictions sounded like they came true judging by what I saw when I went back to attend some undergrad/grad courses after graduating…...though probably not in the ways he intended. 

While blackboard assignments and forums were great, the abundance of laptops in classes meant that students found new ways to avoid paying attention during class such as futzing around with facebook, myspace, or various instant messaging programs. 

Another thing he may not have anticipated that really pissed me off was how cell phones would affect the academic environment. 

Had several instances where some bright genius chose to forget to place their phone on silence/vibrate which caused the rest of us to be subjected to some latest ringtone seemingly set at the loudest possible volume.  In one case, it got so bad the Prof had a TA go up, confiscate, and shut off the cell phone because the student let it ring 5 times which distracted the class and annoyed the Prof. 

Also, I was taken aback at how inconsiderate many current university students are when they yack loudly on their cellphones close to study spaces in the university library…..and how entitled and angry they get when anyone goes up to them to tell them to either tone it down or take the conversation outside as s(he)‘s at a library…not a public street.  If someone made a tenth of the noise some of these students were making at my college library when I was there and they did that, that student would have been immediately thrown out of the library and possibly brought up on judicial misconduct charges for being disruptive in the library.

Comment #55: exholt  on  09/14  at  02:10 AM

If Stephen Hawking can use cheek twitches to manipulate a computer in order to communticate, surely the far more able-bodied John McCain should be able to work something out, no?  I’m concerned about the lack of curiosity involved in not participating in the vast changes in commumication over the last decade.  A president should give a shit about how the rest of the modern world is communicating around him.

Comment #56: Brylock  on  09/14  at  02:46 AM
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