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Next entry: More advantages that blatant liars have Previous entry: Bamboo Review: Battle: LA: Semicolon

Is Kirsten Powers mainstreaming an anti-contraception argument? Yes.

Even The Liberals: it’s a nickname I’ve now made up to describe a particular kind of writer/pundit.  This is a person whose inadequacies as a thinker and writer prevents him/her from making it in the business as a straight liberal, but who has discovered that pretending to be a liberal while mouthing right wing arguments for right wing media outlets provides steady work and attention.  And they don’t care if you’re a hack!  In fact, so much the better, because that means you’re drawn to the easy, but well-compensated work of trying to mainstream hard right arguments by pretending that you, Even The Liberal, agrees with them. 

ETLs are a breed I usually ignore; their hackery is so obvious that it’s not even fun anymore.  But I did pay mind to Kirsten Powers, who mouths right wing arguments while pretending to be a liberal on Fox News most of the time, recently, because she was trying advance really fringe anti-contraception arguments in The Daily Beast recently. In my piece at RH Reality Check, I linked other people refuting her argument, but it was honestly so obvious that Powers was cherry-picking and misrepresenting statistics to argue that contraception doesn’t prevent abortion that I didn’t really think it required much more than being intellectually honest to see what she was up to.  Yes, she maintains that she’s pro-contraception, but that’s part of the ETL schtick.  In reality, she argued that Planned Parenthood should be defunded because they can’t prove that their services prevent abortion.  (Never mind that family planning services are a good in and of themselves, regardless of abortion.)  My main argument was that Powers is a privilege-blind twit, whose ready assumption that everyone else in the world shares her ability to pay for contraception, find endless amounts of time to pursue it, etc. is just wrong.

Much to my chagrin, I was reminded that Powers has remarkably thin skin, because she flooded my reply column on Twitter with screeching demands that I “retract” my honest, fact-based assessment of her hackery.  Really, she should develop a thicker skin; there’s no reason to think that a single person calling bullshit on her “I’m a liberal, but I agree with radical right wing arguments” act is going to bring an end to the gravy train.  There’s just too much demand for faux liberals trying to give fringe right arguments a veneer of moderation for Powers to really worry about that, I’d think.  Still, if she’s going to basely accuse me of misrepresenting an article she has already had to retract for factual errors, I feel bound to respond.  Not by retraction!  Unlike Powers, I’m in the right and not a liar.  But I will perform the close reading she demands of her piece to demonstrate that it is not a matter of a liberal coming around to the idea of defunding federally subsidized contraception for millions of women because of the facts.  I will instead argue that she is taking fringe right wing arguments, polishing those turds up, and pretending that they’re moderate instead of radical anti-contraception arguments. 

Though I will happily grant, and have granted on Twitter and on RH Reality Check, that Powers supports legal contraception.  I imagine she and her friends find a lot of use for it!  Her article was merely an attack on contraception access for women who don’t share her privileges.  She’s a soft anti-contraception person, not a hard line one, though I imagine that she borrowed these hack arguments from hard line anti-choice sources, and hard line anti-choice sources are linking her argument all over, agreeing with the obvious fact that she’s pushing for reduced access to contraception.

Let’s start our close reading from the top of her article:

During the recent debate over whether to cut off government funding to Planned Parenthood, the organization claimed that its contraceptive services prevent a half-million abortions a year. Without their services, the group’s officials insist, more women will get abortions.

I’ll admit I bought the argument—it makes intuitive sense—and initially opposed cutting off funding for precisely that reason.

Then I did a little research.

The “I used to believe X, until I saw the evidence, and then” rhetorical device is about setting the audience up for an argument about why you don’t believe X anymore. In this case, X is the contention that contraception services prevent abortion.  Indeed, this is an intuitive argument, as most people take contraception precisely so they don’t get pregnant on accident and require abortion services.  It’s so intuitive, in fact, that the only people who argue that contraception doesn’t prevent abortion are anti-choice nuts, who have elaborate conspiracy theories to explain their belief that contraception causes abortion.  Part of the process of being an ETL is learning to take these wild-eyed conspiracy theories and put a moderate-sounding spin on them so that they don’t sound like nut-brained screech-a-thons, and that’s what Powers is trying to do here.  She took great pains to demand that I pay attention to the rhetorical flourishes that make her seem moderate, but I’m more interested in the fact that she thinks it’s appropriate to try to take truly fringe ideas and make them mainstream.

And in this paragraph, she establishes that she intends to do that by making like she had a sober-minded, open-minded engagement with all the evidence, and was forced to conclude, more in sorrow than glee, that contraception doesn’t prevent abortion, so neener neener defund Planned Parenthood.  I contend that someone actually looking at all the evidence would do that.  And that someone who has determined to make an argument against widespread access to contraception would instead choose to cherry pick and distort evidence to support an anti-contraception claim.

So which does Powers do?  Well, if you guessed “cherry picked and distorted”, give yourself a cookie.

Turns out, a 2009 study by the journal Contraception found, in a 10-year study of women in Spain, that as overall contraceptive use increased from around 49 percent to 80 percent, the elective abortion rate more than doubled. This doesn’t mean that access to contraception causes more abortion—though some believe that—but that it doesn’t necessarily reduce it.

Her plausible deniability line is to claim that she isn’t necessarily saying that contraception causes abortion, but hey, she’s not saying it doesn’t.  It’s a mystery, but wow, look at that there correlation!  (That she probably grabbed off an overtly anti-contraception source.)  A reader would be forgiven for thinking more contraception caused that abortion rate to go up!  It’s just such a mystery what else could have happened!


Unless, of course, you actually read the paper she links.  Then you will discover that there is someone who disagrees with the contention that “contraception prevents abortion” is still an open question—-the authors of the paper.  They repeatedly point out that many barriers to contraception access that lead to a high abortion rate, including Catholic guilt (no, I’m not kidding), and the greater percentage of the population that are young immigrant women with, you guessed it, reduced access to contraception.  But one factor above all other really stands out as to why the increase in the abortion rate should be taken with a major grain of salt: due to increasing liberalization and better tracking methods, the number of abortions that are reported rose dramatically.  Which means less that the actual abortion rate rose than the number of reports of abortion did. In other words, we really don’t know if the actual abortion rate went up, but what we do know is that the number of unsafe, illegal abortions was likely going down, so this is all a good thing. 

So, Powers is lying about what the data really suggests, and she’s doing so in a way that supports an anti-contraception position, even if she doesn’t state so bluntly.

The next part of her piece is the part she retracted, because she openly conflated numbers from different reports in Guttmacher research in order to shore up an anti-contraception case that she claims she’s not making.  Beyond just the factual error she makes, however, there’s a bigger error she doesn’t retract.  Powers references only women who are getting abortions and their answers on a survey as to why when determining that ready contraception access doesn’t prevent abortion. But as Lindsay notes, this requires disregarding the largest, most important group of people you need to look at when asking “how is abortion prevented?”—-women who successfully prevented abortion.  Do they have better access to contraception than women who don’t prevent abortion? 

The answer is yes, they do.  Guttmacher has already protested the way that Powers distorts their body of research, cherry-picking a very narrow survey answer and ignoring the larger amounts of data they’ve collected that indisputably show that improved contraception access prevents abortion.  Within the space of five paragraphs, Powers manages to misrepresent the findings and research of two bodies of researchers.  If she really was agenda-free, then she wouldn’t do such a thing to them, but would present their research honestly and with respect for the hard work they do.  I will take special note of the fact that Guttmacher’s press release argues that women’s contraception use improves if they are permitted to use the contraception they determine is best for their individual circumstances.  On Twitter, Powers disagreed with the experts and their conclusions, screeching at me that poor women who can’t afford the birth control pill if Planned Parenthood is defunded should use condoms instead.  I feel that Powers is not in the best position to determine the proper contraception use for people she doesn’t know or care about, but that the best people to make that determination are the people involved and their trusted health care professionals.

Powers then goes on:

Asked about the “Contraception” study, the Guttmacher numbers and why no women were saying they got abortions due to lack of access to contraception, a Planned Parenthood spokesman emailed this Orwellian response: “I think the biggest barrier is access to affordable contraception.”  Huh?

I was pointed to a Planned Parenthood study that showed that one in three women voters reported having struggled with the cost of prescription birth control at some point.

It’s unclear whether Planned Parenthood officials simply don’t understand statistics or are so accustomed to having their claims unquestioned that they think if they repeat them often enough, the facts will disappear.

If she was, as she claims, simply taking an open-minded approach to the situation, then why is she so eager to dismiss, without evidence, the argument that women often go without being able to afford contraception?  It’s a behavior that only makes sense if you approach this as an ETL piece, where Powers is trying to mainstream anti-choice arguments. 

Obviously, you can complain of struggling with the cost of prescription birth control and also face an unwanted pregnancy for reasons that have nothing to do with lack of access to birth control.

Talk about Orwellian double speak!  Powers is suggesting that there’s a difference between having access to and being able to afford contraception. But she never considers the possibility that women being studied by Guttmacher who neglect to fill out the “lack of access” bubble while getting an abortion may have made the same distinction!  When trying to argue that women getting abortions had access, Powers assumes this means they could not only get a doctor’s appointment, but could afford it.  But later, she denies that being able to afford your contraception impinges on your access. The word “access” changes for Powers, depending on what works for the bottom line anti-contraception argument.  A strange habit for someone trying to be merely open-minded, honestly.  But it makes sense if someone has an anti-contraception agenda.

For the record, when pro-choice activists say “access”, we mean not only the legal right to buy it, but ability to afford it, the time to get it, and the social privileges to get yourself physically there to get it. All of which I address in my RH Reality Check piece.  No one is denying that Powers supports the legal right to buy it, but she is overtly opposed to Title X funded to make contraception more available to women who struggle with getting regular access to contraception.  This is an attempt to mainstream anti-contraception sentiment by softening it, but the result—-poor and underprivileged women losing access—-is the same.

To preserve its federal subsidy, Planned Parenthood continues to claim that without its contraception services the abortion rate will go up. This deception smacks of a fleecing of taxpayers in an effort to promote an ideological agenda, rather than a sincere effort to help women plan families.

Powers denied on Twitter that she denied that contraception prevents abortion, but in this passage, she characterizes the argument that contraception prevents abortion as a “deception” and an “ideological agenda”.  Saying that the contention that Title X-funded contraception prevents abortion is a “deception” is, I think we can all agree, a way of saying that it’s a deception, i.e. a lie.  I’m not sure how Powers can justify claiming that she didn’t say that contraception services don’t prevent abortion when she straight up says that this is a “deception” created to fleece taxpayers.  Either Planned Parenthood is lying, or contraception prevents abortion, and taking away the Title X-funded contraception access for millions of women will cause more abortions.  I don’t really think she gets to have it both ways. 

What is that ideology, exactly? To find out, you have to dig through Planned Parenthood’s tax forms because the group certainly isn’t going to tell you. According to its most recent tax filing, the purpose of Planned Parenthood Federation of America is to provide leadership in “[a]chieving, through informed individual choice, a U.S. population of stable size in an optimum environment; in stimulating and sponsoring relevant biomedical, socio-economic, and demographic research.”

So it is, in reality, a population-control organization.

Cherry-picking a single quote and putting a distorting spin on it doesn’t strike me as the behavior of someone who simply has an open mind and is just looking at all the evidence.  You can Google Planned Parenthood’s tax filing, and you can read all the parts Powers left out when quoting their 990:

THE PURPOSE OF THE FEDERATION IS: (A) TO PROVIDE LEADERSHIP:
- IN MAKING EFFECTIVE MEANS OF VOLUNTARY FERTILITY REGULATION, INCLUDING CONTRACEPTION, ABORTION, STERILIZATION, AND INFERTILITY SERVICES, AVAILABLE AND FULLY ACCESSIBLE TO ALL AS A CENTRAL ELEMENT TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE:
- IN ACHIEVING, THROUGH INFORMED INDIVIDUAL CHOICE, A U.S. POPULATION OF STABLE SIZE IN AN OPTIMUM ENVIRONMENT; - IN STIMULATING AND SPONSORING RELEVANT BIOMEDICAL, SOCIO-ECONOMIC, AND DEMOGRAPHIC RESEARCH;
- IN DEVELOPING APPROPRIATE INFORMATION, EDUCATION, AND TRAINING PROGRAMS. (B) TO SUPPORT AND ASSIST EFFORTS TO ACHIEVE SIMILAR GOALS IN THE UNITED STATES AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

So, they put health care as their first concern. But beyond that, Powers misrepresents the “population control” aspect of Planned Parenthood.  It’s clear from the wording that what they’re saying is that individual women making fully empowered choices helps keep the population at a stable size.  I’m unclear on what is objectionable about allowing individual women the right to say, “I don’t think I can fit 15 children in my one bedroom apartment.”  I don’t know if the loaded term “population control” to characterize individual choices that maximize resources for individual children is something you’d reach for if you were approaching this in an agenda-free way.

In fact, after quoting part of this, Powers then turns around and lies about what is in it.

Funny, this was never mentioned in the gauzy $200,000 advertising campaign launched last week. It also doesn’t make it into the “About Us” section of the group’s website, which repeatedly claims its mission is to protect women’s health, when in fact the real mission is to keep the birth rate at whatever level the leaders believe it should be.

Where in “informed individual choice” does Powers find “keep the birth rate at whatever level the leaders believe it should be”?  On the contrary, the mission statement highlights individual choice, which is to say leaving the choice of how many children to have not in the hands of Planned Parenthood’s leaders, but in the clients it serves.  They say “individual choice”, she says they’re forcing their beliefs on you.

This is a mainstreaming of a very fringe anti-choice argument.  Anti-choicers have a real love of pretending that they’re blocking access to birth control services for poorer people for their own good, often using overtly racist arguments to do so.  As the argument I had with Powers on Twitter demonstrates—-particularly when she made a “let them eat cake” comment saying that women whose subsidized pills were cut off should just go to CVS or switch to condoms—-this is about creating a situation where the haves have birth control and the have nots do not.  The feigned concern for lower income women is particularly odious, and I really do wish people who wish to deny services to lower income women wouldn’t put on some pose that they wish to force childbirth on the unwilling for their own good.

Powers, unsurprisingly, finishes her piece by demanding an end to federal subsidies to Planned Parenthood.  Her conclusion on its own demonstrates that my contention that she’s mainstreaming fringe anti-choice arguments was true; the notion that family planning subsidies are controversial is a relatively new one in American politics.  It’s so obvious that I feel like I’m wasting my time demonstrating that Powers is a liar and a fraud with her Even The Liberal act.  But this really isn’t about Powers—-though goodness knows her ego is huge enough that she can’t see that! 

No, I wrote this lengthy close reading of her piece to show why it’s so hard to deal with a landscape where blatant lying has become so acceptable.  The reason that lies get legs is that refuting them is really time-consuming!  Powers dashes off a few cherry-picked statistics, distorts the evidence, and misrepresents her position, and it takes like three times the amount of words to thoroughly debunk her bullshit.  Not everyone can do this all the time.  The right is basically drowning out the truth with lies, and frankly, I don’t know what to do about it.  Suggestions are welcome!

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 05:31 PM • (82) Comments

Take over the large media organizations?

It’s not news that we could get the facts out as concisely as they do the lies if we had the same sort of platforms available.  And, hell, it’s not like they’re all that concise- Fox will rant about the same thing for days and days and days if they feel the need.  But almost anything they do will work because they’re fighting about three weight classes up from even the biggest players on the other side.  What you did here is a lot of work, but this is what we need for the facts to tread water until, somehow, those facts manage to find an audience larger than Rachel Maddow’s.

Anybody feel like getting rich and buying a news network?

Comment #1: Spiffy McBang  on  03/14  at  06:33 PM

“I’ll admit I bought the argument—it makes intuitive sense—and initially opposed cutting off funding for precisely that reason.”

That line right there gives the lie to her pretense of intellect.  She doesn’t think providing pre-natal health care is of value?  The “precise” reason she supports funding Planned Parenthood is to prevent abortions through contraception?  That’s pretty shallow.

Comment #2: DBK  on  03/14  at  06:39 PM

Reality based arguments are at a disadvantage to fringe anti-contraception ones because slut shaming is still very much mainstream.  As you say, refuting them requires painstaking gathering of evidence.  But even after their fraudulence is fully exposed all they have to do is yell “but, but, SLUTS!” and we’re back to square one.

Comment #3: DonnaDiva  on  03/14  at  06:58 PM

“The “precise” reason she supports funding Planned Parenthood is to prevent abortions through contraception?  That’s pretty shallow.”

Now, now.  It’s only shallow if you care about women in any capacity other than “baby factory.”

Comment #4: preying mantis  on  03/14  at  07:11 PM

I hope you give your doctor a what-for ultimatum when they get back.

Comment #5: Crissa  on  03/14  at  07:19 PM

Woah, she really pissed you off then. Usually these long dissections are of that asshole on Mondays in the new york times, Douthat. I have similar reactions to Matt Bai but I’m not a prominent blogger so I rant like a crazy person to myself. As regards suggestions just keep doing what you are doing, you kind of rubbed her face in the facts and her own bullshit. She’s probably not going to say this shit again. And if she does, fuck her. Anyone who has any sense will figure out what’s going on based on what happened before and its not like you are responsible for the media in general. All you can do is dole out asskickings “liberally”.

Apart from snopes is there like a wikipedia of insane conservative arguments so when people encounter one you can just check out what the fuck is going on? Cause a lot of their stuff is really repetitive and it would be nice to have facts and figures on hand for contraception doesn’t prevent abortions or black people caused the financial crises.

Comment #6: pharmakos  on  03/14  at  07:33 PM

The right is basically drowning out the truth with lies, and frankly, I don’t know what to do about it.

You’re doing it; you just did it right there. 

Keep up the good work.

Powers dashes off a few cherry-picked statistics, distorts the evidence, and misrepresents her position, and it takes like three times the amount of words to thoroughly debunk her bullshit.

That’s because in order to debunk a falsehood, you have to prove why it is false to people who don’t know the truth.  That’s usually a pretty tall order; and it takes two to tango (the audience must want to be educated).

Comment #7: liberalrob  on  03/14  at  07:35 PM

Yeah, Powers did the “dumb sluts” move plenty on Twitter.  When I pointed out, rightly, that her claim that anyone can go to CVS and get birth control pills is simply not true—-you have to pony up for the doctor’s appointment to get the prescription and the $60-$70 a month for pills if you don’t have insurance—-she started to prescribe condoms for hypothetical women forced off their preferred contraception to satisfy her judgmental standards laid on perfect strangers.  I pointed out that condoms aren’t ideal for everyone, and boom!  “Dumb sluts” came out, as she claimed that anyone who didn’t use condoms didn’t deserve contraception because they don’t respect themselves enough to badger male partners into it.  I’m unclear on why forced parenthood is ideal in circumstances where men say no and women are too weak to demand it, but she sure as shit felt you needed to pay for not reaching her exacting standards in having a spine with men.  I pointed out that some women are abused (but even those who aren’t have a right not to be pregnant), but she felt anything short of being raped put you in the “dumb sluts” category, for which your punishment is mandatory pregnancy.

Comment #8: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  07:37 PM

Crissa, I went in this morning just so this would all be resolved before I left town.  The doctor was like, “Why are you here if you don’t have any problems?”  And that, I said, was WHAT I ASKED 15 MILLION TIMES ON THE PHONE before giving up, making an appointment, paying my co-pay (and having the rest billed to insurance—-hey, unnecessary health care costs!), taking half an hour to get there, waiting an hour to see a doctor, and then finally getting the fucking prescription I ALREADY HAD.  Their response was essentially to take my blood pressure to make it a nominal doctor’s visit, and I told them the reading would be an inaccurate assessment of my usual blood pressure, due to the irritating stupidity of the situation. 

My plan is to change doctors, which is another headache altogether.

Comment #9: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  07:40 PM

liberal, you’re not getting it, though.  In order to spend time doing this, I have to take away time doing other things that are usually more pressing that debunking a shit ton of lies from right wingers.  This is an ongoing problem.  We have Media Matters, but even they, I think, get overwhelmed with the sheer amount of lies out there.  It takes, I would guess, about 5 times as much effort to debunk a lie than to proffer a lie.  If you turned that in to money, that means they have five times as much as us or more.  See the problem?

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  07:44 PM

Her plausible deniability line is to claim that she isn’t necessarily saying that contraception causes abortion, but hey, she’s not saying it doesn’t.  It’s a mystery, but wow, look at that there correlation!

Subject matter aside, when you make your points the exact same way Glenn Beck does, you’re either not a liberal or an extremely crappy one. Does she have a big chalkboard so she can write “Planned Parenthood” in a big circle then draw a line to the word “Abortion” then a third line to “Fascist”? If not she may as well. It would probably help her get her points across to her target audience too.

Comment #11: JThompson  on  03/14  at  07:54 PM

“Does she have a big chalkboard so she can write “Planned Parenthood” in a big circle then draw a line to the word “Abortion” then a third line to “Fascist”?”

Powers’ audience is probably one notch more sophisticated than Beck’s.  He has to be explicit with his lies and the bogus diagrams are important to get the (“all liberals are Socialist Fascists”) message across.  Powers can be less straightforward and the dog whistles still come through for (many of) her people. 

‘Course, maybe diagrams would help take it to another level.  Another level down, that is…

Comment #12: MikeEss  on  03/14  at  08:09 PM

Heh, JThompson. 

I will say, I think her role in this is to push the “dumb sluts” narrative.  The “every woman should be a mommy all the time!” narrative is handled by the church ladies, but that argument doesn’t really cast a wide enough net, you know?  Enter Powers, who is trying to win over the more libertarian types.  They aren’t many in number, but there are a few who are uneasy with trying to restrict birth control.  Powers is here to reframe it as “poor people have what’s coming to them”.  It’s a big win kind of argument with the Megan McArdles of the world, mostly privileged people who like having birth control but don’t like poor people.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  08:22 PM

Amanda, how do you get through this shit without pulling out large clumps of your hair?

I really like the fact that you emphasized that she is pro-contraception for herself and her friends (one wonders how many abortions contraception has caused her to have). I grew up in a very anti-choice area, and the anti-choice propoganda always seems to be targeted at me: a 20-something white lady focussing on career instead of family for the time being. Yet it is women like me who will be the least effected by the anti-choice tactics. I have insurance, enough money to travel, a supporting family. If, god forbid, I get raped I am on the pill already so I wouldn’t need the morning afterpill. I am old enough that it is assumed I am sexually active so I dont feel embarassed buying bc: a pharmacist would rue the day his “conscience” doesn’t allow him to fill my bc scrip. I am confident enough and have been with enough great guys to tell a dude to GTFO if he refuses a condom.

The anti-choice movement has always worked to try to stoke resentment against privileged white ladies, such as myself, but Ms Powers gives lie to the fact that the reason the anti-choicers can get away with what they are getting away with is that privleged white couples (let’s not forget that straight men use BC as much as women do) feel like they won’t be affected by anti-choice policy (for now).

Comment #14: alysia  on  03/14  at  08:26 PM

Yeah, I didn’t have a lot of room in my RH Reality Check piece, alysia, but I agree with you that there are other aspects to privilege that affect access beyond just being financially empowered and able to make time to deal with this shit.  I did reference my willingness to self-advocate, and this is something that needs to be understood. When I start raising hell, I am able to get away with it in a way a woman who isn’t white or middle class wouldn’t be able to be, because people would really hate her and may even sabotage her for being uppity.  My age, too!  Like the paper that Powers misrepresented in her article notes, young people are often at risk for inconsistent contraception use because they still have guilt issues.  Avoiding judgmental clerks weighs heavily on teenagers more than adults, and can lead to a situation where contraception isn’t used.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  08:36 PM

It also makes me wonder why fox is doing this. It seems like hiring powers on to mainstream defunding of contraception took a bit of thought, money and conniving. What do Koch, Murdoch, et al gain from unplanned-for poor children and a hire abortion rate?

Comment #16: alysia  on  03/14  at  08:36 PM

On “conscience” clauses, I think you really see this. Pharmacies usually fill a handful to dozens of BC prescriptions a day.  It’s one of the most common drugs in the U.S.  So when you hear of a pharmacist getting into the shit for denying a woman contraception, understand she was probably the 10th woman that day to come in with a pill prescription.  So, why are we only hearing the one-on-one stories?  My guess is a combination of factors: 1) “Conscience” citers are filling out most BC prescriptions, and they single out one woman or another to harass because they don’t like her and 2) Most women denied slink away guiltily.  The combination of a woman who attracts this harassment and doesn’t put up with it is sadly not common enough, not because such a woman is a rare exemplar, but because privilege and perceived privilege are probably the main factors in play.

Comment #17: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  08:41 PM

I totally agree with that. I was always a late bloomer, so I didn’t have a need for BC until I could get it from student health and they are usually pretty cool, but I remember tales in high school of embarassment preventing my friends from getting BC. I know a guy who bought condoms for the first time at walmart and the clerk didn’t deactivate teh alarm properly so he triggered teh alarm and had to talk to security—he said he almost ran away without the bag when it happened. Furthermore, I know I would have ran away in tears if a pharmacist implied I was a dirty slut when getting BC even a couple years ago. But now I am fresh out of school, in my early to mid twenties and have a grown up job. I also seemed to have lost my baby face that made me look 15 just 2 years ago and could now pass for 30 probably. So everyone just assumes that I am sexually active and talking about sex and having sex and seeking out sex has been so completely amazing since noone even considers taht I might be a virgin anymore. Ironically, this is also the first time in my life where I would be able to afford an abortion or even a baby if push comes to shove. Now that I have this privilege, I don’t as desperately need it (but it is still totally awesome).

Comment #18: alysia  on  03/14  at  08:50 PM

Taking away funding for family planning will surely increase the number of abortions in general and the number done by Planned Parenthood and here is the anecdata from my own life to back it up: when a person calls me at PP asking for an abortion and I tell her to come to her appointment with 450 dollars, she thinks for a minute about how long it will take her to borrow it, sell some stuff, open a credit card, or whatever she has to do to make it happen, but she keeps that appointment. When a person calls to ask for a pap smear, STI screening and bc prescription and I tell her to bring 450 dollars (what it costs with no Title X funding), she cancels the appointment every time.

Comment #19: GumbyAnne  on  03/14  at  08:59 PM

Even The Liberals: it’s a nickname I’ve now made up to describe a particular kind of writer/pundit.  This is a person whose inadequacies as a thinker and writer prevents him/her from making it in the business as a straight liberal, but who has discovered that pretending to be a liberal while mouthing right wing arguments for right wing media outlets provides steady work and attention.

Not to be confused with “the Cokie”, named after the infamous media personality who comments on right-wing atrocities by beginning every sentence with “But the Democrats…”

Comment #20: Geocrackr  on  03/14  at  09:00 PM

Remember that the WI Republicans pretended the union busting was all about the budget until they decided “fuck it, it’s just about the union busting” so they could separate it from the budget and vote to take away collective bargaining without the Dems.  Similarly, the insistence of Powers and others that they just don’t want public funds going to PP because of fiscal responsibility or moral blah blah blah will melt away quickly as soon as they get the opportunity to just go ahead and ban contraception for everyone.

Comment #21: DonnaDiva  on  03/14  at  09:48 PM

“What do Koch, Murdoch, et al gain from unplanned-for poor children and a hire abortion rate?”

They probably don’t give a damn about unplanned-for poor children and/or a higher abortion rate.  What they get is an issue to distract the proles from the fact we’re getting robbed blind by the Kochs, Rupert Murdoch, and the other 1%-ers who own everything but still want more, and a cheap and easily exploited workforce. 

And even if they don’t really want any kind of workforce (poor or otherwise) here in the US, they get the problem of dealing with the poor to use as another political issue to further distract the proles, and pit one group of Americans against other groups of Americans. 

Pretty sweet deal — for our economic overlords…

Comment #22: MikeEss  on  03/14  at  09:53 PM

i agree with Alysia - the whole anti-contraception BS makes no sense. in general, people who are anti-BC to the extent of trying to keep OTHER PEOPLE from access are ALSO bigots.
and who’s ACTUAL going to be hurt by this? poor people, people of color, and teenagers without practical parents.

HOW are they going to be hurt?

they’re going to HAVE MORE BABIES.


and these people don’t WANT more black people, more latin@ people, more poor people [asian people seem to be ok? or maybe i just don’t know any bigots who care about asian peoples]

and i’m just constantly befuddled by it - they absolutely DO NOT WANT more “minority” types - and then they push for measure and bills that will ensure more minorites are born

can someone EXPLAIN this to me? really, please. because they’re also trying to block abortion, so they’re NOT actually trying to force minority women to abort - they’re trying to force them to have MULTIPLE CHILDREN. that the fucking right-wingers don’t actually want to exist


are they REALLY just so stupid that they don’t realize cutting funding for BC means an influx of pregnancies, and with all the hoops for abortions making them difficult-to-impossible, it means an influx of “BROWN BABIES” who are gonna grow up and vote against them?

Comment #23: denelian  on  03/14  at  10:05 PM

You’re right, danelian. It doesn’t even make sense for their own racist/classist aims.

Comment #24: GumbyAnne  on  03/14  at  10:12 PM

but, MikeEss, they don’t WANT more black people, more latin@ people, more poor people, more “arabic” people, more indian people, more native people. we’re not “good” for anything, “all we do is consume taxpayer money”, get in the way, and make the place “look messy”.

i get that they DON’T CARE ABOUT US, in the sense that they don’t care if we live shitty lives - but they’re sure as fuck TERRIFIED of “riots” and “race warfare” and, gods forbid, non-whites outnumbering whites and voting in bloc and electing a majority of NON-WHITE people to public office…

they’re TERRIFIED of us, and the more of us there are, the more terrified they are. so… why are they pushing BS measures that mean MORE of us?

it doesn’t click.

Comment #25: denelian  on  03/14  at  10:14 PM

I know that for your everyday wingnut, they think that they will be getting white middle class women like me back in the kitchen instead of working white collar jobs. I see their protest signs and the “badguy” is always a white woman in a business suit who hates babies. And I have heard time and again the argument that we need anti-choice policies so that white women will have more babies so latin@s won’t become a majority. They think that they are going to meet the goal of moar white babeez, they are just wrong. What I don’t understand is why what Mike calls the “overlords” are on board with this. I don’t get what’s in it for them.

Comment #26: alysia  on  03/14  at  10:23 PM

There is a meta-level lie here, which is the unexamined assumption by Powers that if birth-control doesn’t reduce abortion, then it is not a legitimate thing for the government to subsidize for people who can’t afford it. And it sounds, although I have not studied the Planned Parenthood rhetoric, as if they themselves are trying to justify their birth-control funding by asserting that it reduces abortion. As far as I’m concerned, the justification for federal funding of birth control is that it is a necessary aspect of health care per se. Period.

Comment #27: PhysioProf  on  03/14  at  10:25 PM

denelian—Asian people aren’t considered at risk because their parents are considered to be good parents and wouldn’t allow any fucking to happen before marriage. Plus, they’re good at math.

I wonder if this hack believes that a woman can be “a little bit pregnant” and thus fits into some PP “profit” model that the right wing loves to yammer on about. She can be upsold from the pill to an abortion with all the fixins’. Maybe she can go in for Total Uterus Care and they’ll throw in a hymen stitch-up so she can lie to her next sex partner about being an innocent virgin. Women like to lie, after all. Leaving aside the matter that you’re either pregnant, or you aren’t. Women who go to Planned Parenthood tend to get good, reliable information about how to properly use birth control, because this is their thing. If that fails, then yes, she can have an abortion. And that makes a huge difference on whether or not you’re going to get pregnant accidentally.

I’m starting to get sick of this “all contraception will fail eventually and then you’ll need an abortion” meme. Yes, contraception fails, but not every broken condom means a you’re going to be knocked up. And I’d bet that more than one embarrassed woman in a Planned Parenthood has lied about her contraception use claiming a failure when they just didn’t use contraception because she didn’t want to be taken for a “dumb slut” and would rather have them believe she’s a responsible girl who had a bit of bad luck.

If contraception was anywhere near as unreliable as the right wing makes it out to be, then no one would ever use it. Ever. And kids who got lied to in Abstinence-Only sex ed prove that: They think that contraception doesn’t work, so they don’t use it. But the fact that the majority of Americans use some form of contraception is a pretty good indicator that it works.

Comment #28: Mighty Ponygirl  on  03/14  at  10:26 PM

denelian—I have trotted out this theory many times on this blog, but I really believe that the reason that the right wing is so pro-poor-people-having-lots-of-babies has less to do with racism than it does with classism. A desperately poor population is perfect for cheap labor exploitation. Look at their vaunted 1950’s model: the white mom stayed at home with a colored woman to come by and help her keep the house clean. Before that, when there was even less contraception available, if you were even moderately well-off, you had the luxury of being able to write off to some orphanage and have them send your servants. These desperately poor people would work for literally pennies, waking up at 5 in the morning to clean your chamber pots and scrub your floors, and they were DAMN THANKFUL because the alternative was a poor house, a mine, or a street corner, and they knew they could be replaced in a second because there was such a glut of desperately poor people who would love to live a life as a domestic.

I believe most Americans think of themselves as “better off” than they are (as in, they’re in a higher percentile of income earners than they are) and so naturally they would see themselves as being able to hire the help, rather than be the help. Check out Manor House if you can find it on DVD anywhere sometime.

When you talk to right-wingers, it’s not about fetii, it’s not about babies, its about potential servants. Try it sometime. The next time you’re getting anti-choice vibes off of someone, ask them how they feel about The Big Old Houses. It doesn’t take much prodding to get their little aristocratic fantasies rolling.

Comment #29: Mighty Ponygirl  on  03/14  at  10:36 PM

They probably don’t give a damn about unplanned-for poor children and/or a higher abortion rate.  What they get is an issue to distract the proles from the fact we’re getting robbed blind by the Kochs, Rupert Murdoch, and the other 1%-ers who own everything but still want more, and a cheap and easily exploited workforce.

Also, the Kochs, at the very least, are also hardcore right wing ideologues.  Making poor people, minorities, women, and especially people who fit in more than one of those groups is an end in itself for them.

The John Galts of the world are not genius supervillains sitting in their volcano bases whilst stroking their cats.  They support hateful things because they’re hateful people, and they benefit from hateful things because they position themselves to.  They benefit from things like this both financially and “morally”.

Comment #30: Toitle  on  03/14  at  10:39 PM

denelian, I think it makes sense if you think about why people restrict their family size.  It’s usually for economic reasons above all other considerations, though it’s not like you can pull one consideration out of literally dozens, if not hundreds, when it comes to a personal decision like how many children to have. But economics really overwhelms all other considerations.  Children are very expensive.  Not being able to delay or limit child-bearing is a predictor of lifelong poverty. 

I think more that modern conservatives are more interested in maintaining a permanent underclass than they are interested in limiting numbers, per se.  And putting people in a situation where they have dependents that they struggle to care for is a really excellent way to do this.  Having a kid, and certainly many children you can’t afford, makes it really, really hard to get ahead.  Having children usually means that you’re so busy dealing with the now that you can’t deal with the future, especially if you already struggle to pay the bills. 

As an added bonus, if you grow up in poverty, your chances of being poor as an adult are really high.  So what conservatives are doing with this is trying to create a cycle of poverty that is nearly impossible to break out of.

Comment #31: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  10:39 PM

Also, den, I think it helps to think of how much this is about sex.  Powers, in her Twitter arguments with me, never even referenced the unfortunate status of children who are brought into the world not because they’re wanted and have parents ready for them. She spoke only in terms of people having sex and whether or not they were “responsible” enough for her own arbitrary, classist standards.  I agree there’s a baseline disgust/racism thing going on, and one way it plays out is to angrily deny the right of people they dislike to have healthy, fulfilling sex lives.  They are willing to go to great lengths to maintain healthy sexuality as a privilege for the white and the wealthy.

Comment #32: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  10:43 PM

Amanda—that also fits with the “ban abortion so we don’t need mexicans” line of thought. They want to make it so that American born babies are just as poor and exploitable as illegal immigrants.

Comment #33: alysia  on  03/14  at  10:44 PM

Physio, Planned Parenthood hasn’t, until recently, made reducing abortion a centerpiece rhetorical device.  That said, the reason that it’s an issue is that there was a lot of noise made about “common ground”, with a handful of anti-abortion liberals claiming we could find some peace by getting everyone to agree to reduce abortion through contraception.  The Obama administration embraced this, as did a lot of pro-choicers eager to highlight their work in preventing unintended pregnancy.

As predicted by some nay-sayers like myself—-and Ann Friedman covers this well in the most recent American Prospect—-instead “reduce the abortion rate” became cover for anti-choicers looking for an angle to attack contraception and abortion access.  The only people who ever cared about it as a goal were pro-choicers, really, and now antis are demanding an impossible zero abortion rate to justify any measure that could ostensibly reduce abortion.  Eliminating abortion is, of course, impossible, because pregnancy happens even under the best circumstances occasionally, and because people are human and prone to error.

Comment #34: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/14  at  10:55 PM

denelian, they don’t want more black, latin@, poor people with rights.  They are okay with more such people so long as they’re an underclass, because the more kids you have, the more dependent you are on scrambling for a job because you have no Welfare or other supports.

Higher unemployment means people are more desperate for money and will do more for less.  This is great! if you hire those people to do your gardening or pick your produce or even answer your tech support phones.  Eventually we won’t even need immigrants, we can just hire poor citizens.

Comment #35: oldfeminist  on  03/14  at  10:55 PM

Amanda, I’m glad you brought up the importance of having access to the method that works best for you, and how dumb it is to say “oh well, just use condoms.” I think about how my always-insured self has struggled to find a method that works for me (go Mirena!) and how the wrong method can be such a drag on your life and happiness. Title X covers every type of birth control besides sterilization, even the more expensive and long term stuff, and that is incredibly important if you want your funding to actually help people. If you hate you method, you are a lot less likely to use it and it is a lot less likely to work.

Comment #36: GumbyAnne  on  03/14  at  11:07 PM

Powers is now whining about you on Twitter.  She says you say the same thing over and over.  Well, duh, we wouldn’t have to keep explaining things to anti-choicers like her if they didn’t trot out the same tired arguments over and over.

I tweeted to ask her if she opposes government sponsored flu shots because some people still get the flu.

Comment #37: DonnaDiva  on  03/14  at  11:52 PM

I took a quick look at the Contraception article and there’s something really off about it (other than the fact that Powers thought she’d get away with using it)—no information on the rate of elective abortion based on the data.

The study covers 1997 to 2007, a time when elective abortions were illegal in Spain (only allowed for maternal, fetal, and rape indications). Despite the fact that the authors repeatedly refer to elective/voluntary abortions, if you go to their primary source (official records, in Spanish), under indication, there’s no mention of elective. Only maternal health and fetal (roughly 97% to 3%), rape, and other.

Now, assume, for the sake of the argument, that elective abortions were available with a wink and a nudge, and that they were lumped in under “maternal health”. From the article:

The rate of elective abortion also increased during the study period from 5.52 (49,578 cases) to 11.49 per 1000 (112,138 cases) women of reproductive age, respectively [4].

Except 112,138 was the total number of abortions in 2007 (maternal health, elective but let’s classify them as maternal health, fetal indications, rape, and other).

So between labeling all abortions, regardless of indication, as “elective”, and failing to differentiate between the “maternal health” group and “elective but classified under maternal health” one, what, if anything, happened to the rate of elective abortion in Spain (1997-2007) is unknown.

What we do know is that demonic contraceptive use is the cause and defunding Planned Parenthood is the cure.

Comment #38: ema  on  03/15  at  12:11 AM

@ema - And there could be many explanations for the increase in abortions done for ostensibly therapeutic reasons.  Perhaps there was an increase in certain types of fetal deformities or maternal health problems.  Maybe there were better reporting methods and less reticence about reporting abortions.  Also, what was the population increase during that time? 

But yeah, something happened in some other country where abortion was illegal so defund Planned Parenthood.

Comment #39: DonnaDiva  on  03/15  at  12:31 AM

“But yeah, something happened in some other country where abortion was illegal so defund Planned Parenthood.”

This anti-logic works for anything:

A bunch of radical Saudi Islamists hijack planes in the US and kill a bunch of people.  Therefore, let’s invade Iraq!

Republican Administrations have racked up incredible debt by running incredible deficits over the last 40-years.  Therefore let’s elect more Republicans to rein-in government spending!

I’m a hypocritical Republican Senator or Congressman who for many years have been getting my ticket punched by a bunch of women who are not my wife.  Therefore let’s impeach the Democrat because he was lewd with that intern!

Awesome!...

Comment #40: MikeEss  on  03/15  at  12:52 AM

...the time change wrecked my English skills.  Sorry…

Comment #41: MikeEss  on  03/15  at  12:56 AM

The phenomenon being examined in the Spanish paper is risk homeostasis. People change their behavior in response to their perceived risk level. People who do not want children under any circumstances will, in the state of nature, refrain from having sex. Introduce contraception into the equation, and - even though people know that birth control is not 100% effective - the people who don’t want children will start having a lot more sex, because their perceived risk is small.

(Actually the people with zero tolerance for risk will still refrain; under the no-birth-control scenario, people with very low but nonzero tolerance for risk were still celibate because that was the option that matched their preferences the best. Now that there’s birth control, those are the people who start having sex.)

So with no birth control you might have an accidental pregnancy rate of 1 pregnancy per 100,000 people (Mario and Emma just could not resist one night and got unlucky).

Then you bring birth control into the picture, and now the accidental pregnancy rate is 10 pregnancies per 100,000 people. (Mario and Emma and X of their friends all start having sex regularly using the contraception, which has a 1% failure rate per year.)

Now you make abortion legal. Mario and Emma are less religiously supercareful about their use of birth control, because there’s another layer of safety between them and unwanted parenthood. Now the accidental pregnancy rate is 15 pregnancies per 100,000 people.

These figures are just smoke and mirrors naturally, I have no idea what the real figures are, but the idea that improving the safety of having sex will end up causing more pregnancies is not crazy. People’s behavior changes in response to their perceived risk. If you have no birth control and abortion is highly illegal, you’ll have a lot less PIV sex from child-avoiding people. Add birth control, more sex. Add birth control + abortion, more sex.

Anti-contraceptive people know this perfectly well and that is one reason they are opposed to contraception even while claiming to be against abortion - they don’t want people having sex just for fun. By defunding Planned Parenthood they are trying to reduce sex, not reduce abortion.

Comment #42: Alkaloid  on  03/15  at  01:05 AM

Def, ema.  They admit as much, noting that the abortion rate is hard to measure in a system where abortion is illegal.

Alk, all of human history disproves your assertion that the risk of unwanted pregnancy will reduce the sex rate to zero.  I do understand that people not enjoying themselves is the desired conservative outcome, and I disagree that not fucking is a good thing.  But it’s also an unlikely thing.  You’re presuming a choice that history demonstrates isn’t really there.

I do agree, however, that there is a definite difference in opinion on whether or not pleasure, bonding, and health benefits to sexual satisfaction are good.  Liberals say yes, conservatives say no or only for me.  But I disagree what the response to this is.  Conservatives claim they want to react to their anti-sex attitudes by stomping sex out.  In reality, it’s more that they want to maximize suffering.  Big diff.

Comment #43: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/15  at  01:12 AM

I’ll add that Powers knows very well that the root of her argument, which you admit is “people’s lives should be pleasureless and asexual, especially if they’re women”, is something she avoids talking about directly.  Telling people that their lives should be built around minimizing joy and pleasure is a hard sell, and Powers knows it.  Kudos to you for being honest about it.  Most people really don’t like the “orgasms are bad because they feel good” argument, tho.

Comment #44: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/15  at  01:14 AM

a complete cessation (for whatever reason) of abortions in this country would represent an umitigated disaster for the leaders (religious/political) of the forced-birther crowd. were it to come to pass that, truly, “every sperm is sacred”, the great cash-cow that is the forced-birther rubes would dry up. why contribute to a cause that’s been “won”? clearly, those being supported by those donations/votes would be apoplectic, and have to come up with some equally powerful issue, to keep those same rubes donating/voting.

this could be difficult, since all the really “good” issues (brown-people immigration/terrorism, union “thugs”, etc) have kind of been taken. what’s a low-life, greedy, fundamentalist pastor to do, to continue emptying the wallets of his/her flock? true, there is the “gay” thing, but those people are (for the most part) grown-ups, and very likely to fight back; it’s so much easier to beat up on vulnerable pregnant women.


i am a tad confused: i always thought the whole purpose of contraception was to, you know, prevent conception. no conception means, um, no abortions (last i checked, the latter requires the former). i know, i know, i really should have stayed awake in biology class, but did i miss something?

Comment #45: cpinva  on  03/15  at  01:51 AM

I had that attitude (an asexual life was preferable to anything else) and it sucked.  Of course, I also had a hard line on no children ever (never ever ever) that factored heavily in avoiding PIV sex.  My anxiety couldn’t handle the slightest bit of what-if.  Shit like this really burns me, b/c what Powers is advocating is a life I lived for years, and that life and the worldview that supported it damaged me.  Amanda, you are exactly right that at the bottom it’s about punishment and misery and grinding the life out of people.  I get so angry I can’t even talk about it sometimes.

Comment #46: bomberE  on  03/15  at  02:02 AM

To quote an old friend of mine: “I despise willfully stupid people. And sometimes that includes myself.” I suspect Powers would not be screeching so loudly if she didn’t subconsciously (or, hell, consciously) know that her “logic” is utter bullshit.

Comment #47: verity khat  on  03/15  at  02:35 AM

@Emmett, Grand Poobah of Pan-Fried Potatoes: I too was a risk-averse-celibate for years, and it was nothing but misery and shame.  So now it’s infuriating to hear people advocate what I know to be a painful denial of self just so they don’t have to deal with the messiness of life.  *hugs*  One day our anger will burn the stupid and hate out of them.

Until then, know that your username makes me giggle every time I see it.

Comment #48: verity khat  on  03/15  at  02:41 AM

I’m translating here, i grant, but…


but what you guys are saying is that the Republicans [or, at least, that large percentage of them that are hardliners on BC/abortion/women being human/etc] want to turn the United States of America into -

Imperial Russia.

that’s what i got. a permenent serf population. actually, Poland and Prussia work as well; India REALLY works as an analogy, except we don’t quite have “castes” - yet

that’s….............
that’s actually the most frightening thought i’d ever had.

Comment #49: denelian  on  03/15  at  03:31 AM

The right is basically drowning out the truth with lies, and frankly, I don’t know what to do about it.

This is why the Citizens United decision is so pernicious. The court’s contention that money is speech is absolutely Orwellian. In fact, those who are able to spend money without limit in politics trample the free speech rights of all those who lack such resources.

When the decision was announced last January my immediate thought was that voting may be meaningless from now on. I thought that since large corporations and their owners now controlled our politics, the only way to influence policy would be by spending what limited disposable income we had left in a deliberate fashion so as to influence said owners.

Comment #50: tesseral  on  03/15  at  04:00 AM

Alk, all of human history disproves your assertion that the risk of unwanted pregnancy will reduce the sex rate to zero.

That’s not my assertion. The (voluntary) sex rate will go to zero among people who cannot tolerate any risk of having children, at all. That’s not everyone; it’s not even close to everyone. But it is a discernible group, whose behavior does change depending on the circumstances. See @46. For most people it will be a smoother gradient of activity; the couple that has PIV sex twice a month using the rhythm method, then goes to twenty times a month when she goes on the pill, for example. If the rhythm method works 80% of the time and the pill works 95% of the time, they still have more pregnancies in the second scenario than in the first. (1/4 the amount of conceptions-per-PIV-sexytime, but 10x the amount of sex.)

I’m pretty sex-positive personally, but I recognize that the legal and medical rules/structures/available tools around sexuality will have an impact on people’s decisionmaking, and straightforward “more condoms = less babies” logic won’t always be right.

Comment #51: Alkaloid  on  03/15  at  04:59 AM

Apart from snopes is there like a wikipedia of insane conservative arguments so when people encounter one you can just check out what the fuck is going on? Cause a lot of their stuff is really repetitive and it would be nice to have facts and figures on hand for contraception doesn’t prevent abortions

Well, there’s a literal Wikipedia that could use some help in being a source of debunking these myths.  It’s easy to start editing things, if anyone would like to help fix up the articles on contraception, contragestion, birth control, or the “beginning of pregnancy controversy.”

The gist of the argument is that there are some people who believe contraception does cause abortion.  In addition to “contraceptive” there is a practically unused term “contragestion” which means anything that acts to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.  Implantation is the beginning of pregnancy; however, the term “conception” in common use can mean either fertilization of the egg or implantation.  So…people have been trying to deliberately confuse the two meanings of conception, to say that pregnancy starts as soon as there is fertilization.  According to that argument, “contragestives,” which prevent pregnancy, but after fertilization, are actually not contraceptives.  With the new definition of “pregnancy” to mean the instant egg meets sperm, suddenly they can call this kind of contraceptive “abortion.”  The articles on contraception, birth control, and contragestion, all claim that contraceptives act to prevent fertilization, not to prevent pregnancy, and claim that “contragestives” aren’t contraceptives.  That redefines “contraceptive” to exclude things like…emergency contraception!

Oh, and I had to take out a reference to infanticide in the birth control article too.

Comment #52: Nimravid  on  03/15  at  05:30 AM

Re. Alkaloid’s comments on abstinence as contraception, Hera Cook’s book <a >The Long Sexual Revolution: English Women, Sex, and Contraception 1800-1975</a> suggests that for the English working class abstaining from sex both before and after marriage was the usual method of contraception, at least until WWII*.

Pretty obviously, this was not only a rubbish deal** for women, but for men. The men concerned were not having sex before marriage, they weren’t having sex with their wives, and they weren’t having sex with other women, either. Of course, the right-wing misogynists love to whinge about how their wives won’t put out so it won’t make a difference etc. etc., but no more than anti-vaxxers really want to return to a world that means when your child gets a sniffle you keep it in bed for ten days in case it is polio, do most men who complain about women having sex want to return to a world in which men don’t have it either.

Perhaps the men just assume they would belong to that class of men who could (a) support all the children their wife had, and (b) get extra sex from a mistress.

*There are various reasons for this – lack of education about and access to the alternatives, strong cultural pressure against other methods etc.

**Although it was better than dying in childbirth or having one’s wife do so, and better than one’s children going hungry or to the workhouse.

Comment #53: Nineveh  on  03/15  at  06:32 AM

You can make a good argument (as does Denelian above) that an anti-abortion, anti-contraception policy is not in the rational self intertest of our plutocratic overlords.  But rationality has nothing to do with it—those people are motivated by malice, not reason.

Rational actors would advocate a very different set of policies across the board.  Rational plutocrats are liberal democrats, because a healthier, happier society is in the long run is more profitable for its masters.  Augustus warned his governors that he wanted his sheep sheared, not flayed—but the modern right thinks Augustus was a wimp.

Comment #54: rea  on  03/15  at  08:08 AM

Alk, I don’t disagree that fear of pregnancy can reduce the amount of sex people have some, and that’s definitely what anti-choicers want, due to the fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time. 

Still, I think you exaggerate the possibilities of sex reduction, though at the end of the day, I think—-and on this I think we might agree—-that it’s important to make this about sex as much as possible.  The more they’re talking about trying to force grown adults not to fuck, the better.  Grown adults like fucking, thankyouverymuch.  Antis get this, and so always try to make it about “life”, but mostly about stopping someone else from fucking.  Hence, attacking Planned Parenthood or gay people.

But I think it’s important not to overrate how much people reduce sex.  People still have a TON of sex that’s got consequences built in.  They cheat on spouses.  They have sex without contraception access.  It’s not theoretical, but actual.

Part of the issue is that the gender who actually finds unintended pregnancy intolerable is not the gender that gets to say when sex happens.  Margaret Sanger understood this, because part of her work was trying to counsel women whose bodies were destroyed by endless pregnancy, and who were told by callous doctors just to tell their husbands no.  This was not a realistic option for them.  And while women enjoy broader rights to say no, simply abstaining from sex is not a realistic option for most straight women.  It means terminating more than sex.  Most men will not stay in a celibate relationship, and so it also means giving up on love.

It’s funny, because conservatives are the ones always hand-wringing and bemoaning all these things they claim, falsely, doom women to be alone: independence, education, feminism.  But the one thing that actually would leave women alone, forced celibacy? They’re all for it.

Comment #55: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/15  at  08:37 AM

“But the one thing that actually would leave women alone, forced celibacy?  They’re all for it.”

A feature, not a bug, I would think.  There are a lot of things going on in America lately that certainly paint the picture that reichwingers are gunning to destroy civil rights gains over the last 50 years (or so) with seriously stupid - and yeah I’m going to go there - anti-democratic, anti-american horeshit.  Destroy unions so more workers are powerless.  Destroy repro rights so more women are forced to stop making any positive upward strides.  Destroy all social programs designed to help all children of anyone not in the upper tax brakets (Head Start, WIC, etc.) Destroy access to voting for left-leaning voters to diminish the effect all these horrible evil policies on elections (see voter i.d. law proposals). 

Maybe I’m just paranoid, but doesn’t it seem like the main goal here is to force people - through intensely backward laws, where necessary - back into the 50’s model of “traditional families”.  If workers have no rights, they are more willing to work for less.  If women have little (or no) ablilty to decide when to have kids, or how many, there’s no time for working and going to school. Better get married and hope hubby can keep a job.  etc. etc.

Forced celibacy is basically forced singlehood.  Being successful in the climate they are trying to make would be basically chosing to be celibate, as there will be no ability to stop pregnancy, no social safety net to assist poor parents, etc. So, better be willing to get married quick and start having all those babies!  Don’t want to be alone! 

Seems a little to synergistic to me to be coincidence.

Comment #56: Rare Vos  on  03/15  at  10:19 AM

@56 the main goal here is to force people back into the 50’s model of “traditional families”

The main goal is to force us farther back than that.  Both this anti-birth control push and the anti-union push in Wisconsin, Ohio, etc. are aspects of the same overall plan to make sure everyone except the super-rich is so poor and desperate that they (that is, we) become a permanent servant class to the rich.

Comment #57: Nutella  on  03/15  at  10:52 AM

I think oldfeminist has it, about the underclass, with a side order of being able to create more class warfare when you can point to poor brown people overbreeding. But it gets even better than that for the rich wingnut: since you’re already cutting healthcare and other social services, a lot of those kids are going to die in unpleasant ways (they already do). And then it’s not just “they’re breeding like rabbits”, it’s “life is cheap to them, look how poorly they take care of their kids.” Which justifies even more repressive measures. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Comment #58: paul  on  03/15  at  10:57 AM

Thanks, verity khat.  Wonder Twin Empathy Power: Go!

Comment #59: bomberE  on  03/15  at  11:46 AM

The comment section is amazing in its cognitive dissonance.
“Liberals are lying fascists!  Except when they agree with everything I believe in.  That proves all liberals are lying fascists!”
“Powers served in the Clinton administration as a deputy assistant trade representative. And she is most definitely a democrat.”
Of course most liberals and progressives understand that “Democrat” is a large tent party and anyone can “claim” the “D”.  But as NAFTA proved, Clinton was hardly a liberal economist.

I guess that’s too much nuance for their tiny child-like brains to handle.
(Apologies to children everywhere for the comparison)

Comment #60: cynickal  on  03/15  at  12:09 PM

What part of “voluntary” and “individual choice” does she not understand in PP’s 990? What a mendacious twit.

Comment #61: Olivia  on  03/15  at  01:14 PM

Nothing like a slut punishment baby to make a person be a really great parent, man.

Comment #62: twg_  on  03/15  at  03:13 PM

Maybe I’m just paranoid, but doesn’t it seem like the main goal here is to force people - through intensely backward laws, where necessary - back into the 1850’s model of “traditional families.”

FTFY

The right has become more ambitious since November.

Comment #63: Vir Modestus  on  03/15  at  03:15 PM

It takes, I would guess, about 5 times as much effort to debunk a lie than to proffer a lie.  If you turned that in to money, that means they have five times as much as us or more.  See the problem?

Of course I see the problem.  But the only solution to the problem is to expend that 5x energy; otherwise, the lies are accepted as truth because that’s the default.  If authority figure says X, X will be accepted as true because it was said by authority figure, who presumably knows what they’re talking about. 

We are conditioned to accept things said in the media as truth because historically our conception of “the media” is that their primary goal is the dissemination of truth.  They are expected to have done the work to confirm that what they print is the truth.  They are also expected to be self-regulating; if one news source doesn’t do the work to confirm their stories, some other, competing news source will print the truth and embarrass them.  That’s what we are taught all through grade school.

This isn’t the first time that the media has collectively failed us like this.  The Spanish-American War was fueled by “yellow journalism” and caused us to go to war with a nation that was absolutely no threat to us (as we quickly demonstrated by kicking their asses resoundingly).  I’m sure there are many other examples of the 4th Estate failing in its designated role in a free society.

I don’t put the blame entirely on the media, though I do think they are the proximate cause of our current situation.  Part of the blame must be shouldered by the entire society.  There is an element of our national character, and maybe it’s a part of human nature as well, that wants to deny any implication that our moral and ethical orthodoxies might not be as noble and admirable as we think they are (that’s as best I can express it; “exceptionalism” is a good term too).  We don’t want the media to report things that make us look bad, even thought it might be true.  We desperately want the media to report things that make us look good, even if the truth needs to be bent a little.  We also have a mean streak, and we like seeing people knocked off high horses and blowhards taken down a peg.  We have a paradoxical distrust of authority when we don’t like what it says yet willingness to accept authority unquestioned if it confirms our beliefs.  In short, as a society, we are shallow, vain, and arrogant.  What cures that is a reality check, something that sobers us up and forces us to re-evaluate ourselves.  We need a good punch in the nose.

Comment #64: liberalrob  on  03/15  at  04:52 PM

What we do know is that demonic contraceptive use is the cause….

whoa… totally “Buffy” flashbacks.  Now, are the demons human contraceptives, or are we talking contraceptives to prevent baby demons??

OnTopic: Amanda, keep ripping this woman’s mask off whenever she reassembles it: it’s a dirty job, but it needs to be done.  Pernicious faux-liberals should just be treated like spies in wartime.

Comment #65: Eric_RoM  on  03/15  at  05:10 PM

I’d like to make Ms. Powers & her audience & treat them to a free screening of About a Girl.

I wonder how many would recognize themselves.

Comment #66: Smartpatrol  on  03/15  at  05:18 PM

Oy.  “I’d like to take Ms. Powers…”

Comment #67: Smartpatrol  on  03/15  at  05:20 PM

“And while women enjoy broader rights to say no, simply abstaining from sex is not a realistic option for most straight women.  It means terminating more than sex.  Most men will not stay in a celibate relationship, and so it also means giving up on love.”


Yes, this.  Only an IUD has given me enough peace of mind to be able to tolerate the risk of having sex…and still, I constantly worry and, therefore, don’t enjoy sex.  Too bad sterilization costs so much.

I thought I would have to be alone for my entire life until I met my husband, who fortunately has a lower-than-average sex drive and a way-higher-than-average ability to deal with my concerns.  Not having sex ever again would, frankly, be okay with me, but I’m guessing it would destroy my marriage.  My husband would probably stay with me, but he wouldn’t be happy.  This is exactly why I get so angry when I hear the “don’t ever want kids, don’t ever have sex” line from forced-birthers.

Comment #68: Kirjava  on  03/15  at  09:13 PM

“Even The Liberal”—there was a variant on this phrase that was popular maybe 20 years ago: “Even the liberal New Republic,” as in “even the liberal New Republic argues [something totally reactionary].” I think the folks at the New Republic were not-so-secretly tickled by this. It fell out of favor when people ceased to be surprised when the New Republic ran reactionary shit. (FWIW, the New Republic actually is more liberal today than it was back then.)

Comment #69: manboobz  on  03/15  at  09:25 PM

...According to that argument, “contragestives,” which prevent pregnancy, but after fertilization, are actually not contraceptives.  With the new definition of “pregnancy” to mean the instant egg meets sperm, suddenly they can call this kind of contraceptive “abortion.” The articles on contraception, birth control, and contragestion, all claim that contraceptives act to prevent fertilization, not to prevent pregnancy, and claim that “contragestives” aren’t contraceptives.  <b>That redefines “contraceptive” to exclude things like…emergency contraception!<.b>

Oh, and I had to take out a reference to infanticide in the birth control article too.
Comment #52: Nimravid on 03/15 at 04:30 AM

Lies gain traction when even pro-choice liberals repeat them. Hormonal EC works by preventing ovulation and fertilization. There is speculation that the role hormones play in thinning the lining of the uterus may impede implantation, but there is absolutely no proof for this. In any event, it is only forced-birther loons who believe that pregnancy begins at fertilization. They could not be more wrong.

Please stop repeating the lie that EC works by preventing implantation. Thank you.

Comment #70: BJ Survivor  on  03/15  at  10:01 PM

WRT her condoms argument—by her own, obviously very flawed logic, shouldn’t condoms also increase the abortion rate? Also, shouldn’t richer women with better access to BC be getting the highest number of abortions? Does getting bc from for-profit orgs somehow make them less abortion-y?

Comment #71: alysia  on  03/16  at  01:47 AM

Please stop repeating the lie that EC works by preventing implantation.

OK.  Well, here is the source you gave me.

(First link supporting “Because these contraceptive methods work prior to implantation, they have been an accepted and widely used means of pregnancy prevention for decades and are widely accepted in the medical and scientific community as a safe and effective means of contraception.”)

http://www.arhp.org/Publications-and-Resources/Clinical-Fact-Sheets/Facts-About-EC

“When the copper-containing IUD is used as emergency contraception, its most likely mechanism of action is interference with implantation from the effect of the copper ions or the presence of the IUD itself.”

Hormonal EC is not the only emergency contraception.  My point was that things that prevent implantation or any step before, prevent pregnancy.  By definition.  And are contraceptives!  Which is why emergency contraception which (in actual studies, rarely) prevents implantation, like the copper IUD, is called emergency contraception. Except apparently on Wikipedia.

Comment #72: Nimravid  on  03/16  at  01:55 AM

WRT her condoms argument—by her own, obviously very flawed logic, shouldn’t condoms also increase the abortion rate? Also, shouldn’t richer women with better access to BC be getting the highest number of abortions? Does getting bc from for-profit orgs somehow make them less abortion-y?

Yes it does. See, you pay a private doctor to have a necessary medical procedure performed. Dirty sluts go to Planned Parenthood to kill their babies. See the difference?

Comment #73: TheRealistMom  on  03/16  at  02:17 AM

the way that every single person i’ve ever gotten hormonal BC has described how it works is:

“this will probably make it so you don’t ovulate. if you DO ovulate, in theory, it makes it harder for fertilization to occur. if fertilization *does* occur, it thins the lining of your uterus to an extent that makes implantation almost impossible.”

if even the doctors - even at PP - are explaining that the “last ditch” function of hormonal BC [Norplant, NeuvaRing, Depo, and now ImPlanon] is to prevent implantation, then i’d have to say that one of the functions of hormonal BC is to prevent implantation -


but it doesn’t matter. even without BC, tons of fertalized eggs don’t implant! happens all the time! and, of course, at LEAST 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage, anyway.

but we’ve all agreed, a thousand thousand times, that fundies and anti-abortion assholes aren’t “pro-life” - they’re “pro-forced-pregnancy”, and ANY distortion of the truth is acceptable to them.

Comment #74: denelian  on  03/16  at  03:49 AM

I know!  There are a bunch of people trying to confuse the issue, and trying to get people to think that contraception is really abortion.  And they know these are lies, or they couldn’t be so good at deceiving people and carefully sidestepping the truth.  The obvious conclusion to draw is that they really do just want to force pregnancy.

And the only method I know of that actually works to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg as a major part of the method is breastfeeding (lactational amenorrhea.)  I haven’t yet seen a forced-birther march against that.

Comment #75: Nimravid  on  03/16  at  07:22 AM

And yes, I do think that if you start taking seriously the idea that making your uterus anything less than a cushy pillow for any passing fertilized eggs is evil, you’ve lost the argument already.  The whole point gets lost when the debate is over whether something does or does not make a woman a less than perfect host for an egg, which is probably the reason why forced-birthers focus on it so much (shift to an argument that distracts from the issue and can be debated, instead of the one that is ridiculous on the surface.)

Comment #76: Nimravid  on  03/16  at  07:34 AM

I realize I am a little late to this, but for those interested in the link between increased contraceptive use and abortion rates, there is this link to an article reviewing various studies:

http://www.fhi.org/en/rh/pubs/network/v21_4/nwvol21-4abortcontception.htm

The takeaway message I got was that looking at the experience in numerous countries does show a correlation between increased contraception and less abortion.  However, the connection is not straightforward but complicated by several factors.  Following is a quote:

“That increased contraceptive use reduces abortion by helping women avoid unplanned pregnancy may seem obvious. However, in some countries, contraceptive prevalence and abortion rates have risen together when access to effective contraception failed to keep pace with a growing desire for smaller families, leading some to conclude that family planning increases abortion.

Researchers have struggled for years to explain the complex relationship between contraception and abortion. The most basic limitation to such research is the scarcity and poor quality of most abortion data. Many women are reluctant to admit that they have had an abortion, particularly in countries where they could face severe legal sanctions. Even in countries where abortion is legal, women may seek abortions outside the public health system, where they are more confidential or convenient. Other factors that make it difficult to interpret the relationship between contraception and abortion include the lack of reliable information in many countries about contraceptive use among unmarried, sexually active women and about method failure and incorrect use among all users.”

Comment #77: Victor  on  03/16  at  02:04 PM

Nimravid;

I know that they’re lying, you know, THEY know - everyone [who cares to know] knows that they’re lying.

it behooves us to NOT give them ammunition by lying in return. and it *IS* a lie to say “this hormonal BC stops ovulation and/or fertilization, but DOES NOT stop implantation if fertalization occurs anyway”.
that’s a lie.
sometimes, hormonal BC *DOES* prevent implantation - not as a primary method, or even a secondary method - more like a SIDE EFFECT. but it DOES HAPPEN - and saying that it does’t allows them to scream about how we lie - and, like it or not, the forced-birth crowd is sort-of “allowed” to lie, because “saving babies is so important that the ends justify the means” for many people. WE *aren’t* allowed to lie, and every lie we tell makes look more like “we just hate and want to kill babies”

i agree with you - it’s NO ONE ELSE’S BUSINESS what state my uterus is in! and no one has the right to judge me for it! and it’s NOT evil to have a uterus that “isn’t a snug home for any passing fertalized egg”, despite all the rhetoric thrown by forced birthers.


all we have to do, to not give them ammunition, is NOT LIE. tell the truth - “it is possible that, as a side effect, the lining of the uterus may be thinned - and this is a good thing.”

Comment #78: denelian  on  03/16  at  09:17 PM

denelian:

Hm.  I got my information not mainly from BJ Survivor’s link, where I was accused of lying about EC sometimes preventing implantation, but looked up scientific reviews done in 2011 summarizing the evidence of the mechanism of hormonal emergency contraceptive pills from a large number of studies, and the best science says that it’s very unlikely that they ever work by preventing implantation (I didn’t research much about using contraception long term, like you’re talking about.)

On the other hand, the best science says that IUDs used as emergency contraception likely could prevent implantation, though this is not their main mechanism.  I could barely care less which mechanism happens for either one. 

It’s actually been studied though; there shouldn’t be this amount of confusion on the mechanism, and…EC pills don’t prevent implantation, as far as anyone could reasonably tell; IUDs could, as far as anyone reasonably could tell; and still the argument has degenerated to “well, prove it better that there’s no possible, slight way that the egg incubator’s quality is compromised with the morning after pill…” because they don’t want people to just be able to pick a type of birth control that works at the time they’re comfortable with (fertilization, implantation, whatever;) they want to confuse people about what’s actually happening so that they’re afraid to use any type of birth control at all.  If they were really against implantation prevention for ethical reasons, when it was shown that certain birth control didn’t prevent implantation, they would have been jumping for joy and telling everyone they could use it.  Instead, they’re lying about what works what way.  Obviously they’re just against women being able to control their own fertility, otherwise they’d be in favor of giving them the correct information to make their own decisions instead of lying about it to manipulate people.

OK, I think I’ve spent enough time on this after all my preaching that we shouldn’t spend time on it.

Comment #79: Nimravid  on  03/16  at  11:28 PM

but pills AREN’T the only form of hormonal BC. i’ve used FOUR OTHER KINDS. and i’ve been given that same warning about “it may, as a side effect, prevent implantation if fertilization happens anyway” [*I* consider this a plus.] - and every time someone on our team says “no, that’s not how it works”, the forced-birthers can point to the fact that other forms of hormonal BC and IUDs possibly CAN work that way - and call us all liars.

that’s my point. in general, the point SHOULD be “if it doesn’t implant, good”. and we should stress that. but not by lying, or avoiding how something works so as to give the impression that NO BC does that, which is lying by omission.

*shrug*

Comment #80: denelian  on  03/17  at  03:39 AM

I think we are actually agreeing…there are many kinds of birth control, and I’m saying we should be specific and upfront about how each kind works.  I was responding to BJ Survivor telling me to “stop repeating the lie that EC works by preventing implantation” when I was, well, saying exactly the same thing you are.  Some work one way, some work another, we should let everyone know how each one works and they should make their own decisions- it was BJ Survivor that was saying no emergency contraceptives work that way, I was saying the opposite. 

But just giving up to the forced birthers and saying, “well one among the many types of contraception may prevent implantation, so just go ahead and say all types do, because you want to confuse people about how they work” is going along with their lie.  Same as if our side said no type of birth control could ever possibly work that way.  Hormonal emergency contraception does not, as far as anyone can reasonably tell, work that way.  It’s not a political viewpoint, it’s just the way things work.  Other methods of hormonal birth control, like using hormonal birth control long-term rather than a one time emergency use, might work another way (not saying they do, I just don’t know right now.)  Um, unless you mean that you have used Norplant, NeuvaRing, Depo, or ImPlanon as emergency birth control, which I did not know you could use them for; in which case I’ve been arguing like an ass.

Comment #81: Nimravid  on  03/17  at  04:35 AM

erm. no, i did NOT use them as EMERGENCY BC.

ha! - i am glad that’s cleared up, and that we ARE on the same page. sorry for confusion!!!

to my knowledge, no form of BC works that way as its “primary” method of BC - most stop ovulation, the thing with the lining of the uterus is just [IMHO, anyway] a BONUS. backup, if you will.


really - sorry for the confusion.

Comment #82: denelian  on  03/17  at  05:27 PM
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