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Just A Reminder Of Who These People Are

I went over to Instapundit today to see how the 101st Fighting Keyboarders are taking the fight to the Iranitards.  That led to this interview, in which he begins the process of proving himself a savant for predicting that technology would play a role in events to come, which nobody had ever done before.  Ever.

Now, Insty has painted his blog green and fairly frequently mentions Iran, mainly to either make stupid points or to join in the same masturbatory orgy of “look at what I’m noticing” that seems to have consumed about 75% of the Iranblogging thus far (and 98% of the right’s). But something keeps nagging at me, and I realized what that something is.

Two years ago, Reynolds was advocating systematic American assassination of the Iranian government and scientists.  Not in order to overthrow the government and provide a safe democracy for Iranians (as ill-advised and unlikely as that outcome would be), but instead to punish the government and people of Iran for participation in the insurgent movement against occupying U.S. forces in Iraq.

This is the major reason I’ve been going on about the emptiness of the “green solidarity” movement.  There are simply too many people “going green” who could not care less about the Iranian people, their goals, their sacrifices.  No heavens opened up, joining neoconservatives with devout Muslims on the streets of Tehran.  There’s no concern for whether tens of millions of Iranians live in freedom or in oppression, what their government will look like or even what the protesters’ hopes are as they put their own lives on the line.  It’s about various elements of conservatism validating their preexisting notions while, once again, someone else puts their asses on the line.  It’s why the bravest act Obama has taken during his presidency is not bowing to people who wouldn’t mind a few hundred thousand Iranians’ blood shed in order to prove a point, and instead maintaining silence rather than subverting autonomous Iranian demands for freedom and democracy to make John McCain’s little soldier tingle. 

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 09:55 AM • (29) Comments

The first inkling I had that there was something weird going on here… green is a color associated with Islam in politics, and for that reason it is Hamas’ color in Palestinian politics (the religious alternative to the secular Fatah). Now, I tend to be very sympathetic to Hamas (which is complicated in and of itself), but… well, still, it was weird to denouncers of “Islamofascism” supporting a green revolution. Anywhere.

I don’t really know how to “stand in solidarity” with people under real threat of personal violence half-way around the world, but of course my sympathies go with them. As I’ve come to understand more about this movement, I am definitely seeing things about them (liberal reforms—as in liberal/freedom, not socialist) that make me optimistic.

It is also increasingly clear that the neocons are doing nothing more than drumming up interest so that when Khomeini crushes these protests, they can beat the war drum. If these protests actually force a reversal, you’ll see them in the uncomfortable position of admitting that Iran’s democratic process vindicates getting The Bomb to protect Iran from the Americans.

And then, I’m sure it will be back to talk of the Clash of Civilizations and Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran. Without skipping a fucking beat.

Comment #1: humanadverb  on  06/23  at  11:24 AM

Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran. That should be the end of the conversation.

BTW, still waiting for one of our media stars to ask McCain how he squares his current statements with his previous ones. But I waited a year for anyone to ask him to square any of his statements about anything during the presidential campaign*, so I guess it’s gonna take a while.

(*Which, evidently, he won - serves me right for getting my election results from the liberally biased media.)

Comment #2: RickMassimo  on  06/23  at  11:24 AM

Sorry for ignoring the actual point of your post, but thank you for getting the “could not care less” thing correct.

Comment #3: Triplanetary  on  06/23  at  11:52 AM

It’s obvious that “supporting democracy in Iran” is just about using another angle to attack Obama. 

If, in the words of a former friend of mine, Iran was autoclaved, the wingnuts would not shed a single tear for the Iranian people killed.  Conversely, if somehow the protesters overthrew the government and instituted their own democracy, and then did something the wingnut-o-sphere didn’t like, they’d happily treat them like Mossadegh in ‘53 all over again, and not even notice the hypocrisy (again).

‘Course, they wouldn’t shed a tear if everyone to the left of Traitor Joe Lieberman was “eliminated” either…

Comment #4: MikeEss  on  06/23  at  11:52 AM

I read something like this, Joe Klein criticizing John McCain:

Sen. McCain, if he’s going to talk about this, should also talk about the fact that the United States supported Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war for eight years. Every one of those protesters out in the streets, every last one of them believes the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with the poison gas that has debilitated tens of thousands of Iranian men.

And I get mad. Because it didn’t just “debilitate.” Iraq used a combination of nerve gas and mustard gas, so the nerve gas would paralyze you and then—unable to seek cover or help yourself—the mustard gas would penetrate and dissolve your respiratory tissues, filling your lungs with blood, until you drown. Or, rather than “you,” I should say “Iranians defending themselves in a war of Iraqi aggression.”

But then I realize just how much progress Joe Klein has made by getting to this place—delivering the smack-down to President McCain and, at the same time, acknowledging that the United States has kinda given these people reasons not to trust us or desire our support.

Comment #5: humanadverb  on  06/23  at  11:57 AM

I wish them luck.  And now that we’ve got some actual EVIDENCE the election may have been rigged, I’m in the corner of the protesters.  But, knowing how Iran’s government works…  The change is from a ‘loose cannon’ conservative at the beck-and-call of the clergy to a ‘politely spoken’ conservative at the beck-and-call of the clergy.

If it really works out, they may, eventually, have an actual, real democracy…  But for now, I wish them luck, but I don’t see a huge change.

Comment #6: MosesZD  on  06/23  at  12:15 PM

Absent a million martyrs going into the street it is all over.  The bad guys won.  We still have to deal with Ahmadinejad [sic].  Obama knew this would probably happen.  Why?  The Iranis took to the street twice before (not as big I grant you) and folded then too.  So, 101st, fold your green tents and skulk back under your rocks and think of something more nasty you can say about the next ‘date night’ or brand of toothbrush Obama uses or whatever your ferbile litle brains can think up.

Comment #7: Magis  on  06/23  at  12:23 PM

MosesZD—considering how much Obama and Romney had to bullshit about their faith in this last election, we’re not exactly free and clear of the Clergy’s beck-and-call in this country ourselves.

Comment #8: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/23  at  12:23 PM

But, knowing how Iran’s government works… The change is from a ‘loose cannon’ conservative at the beck-and-call of the clergy to a ‘politely spoken’ conservative at the beck-and-call of the clergy.

Good enough to sink us into another decades-long war for no apparent reason!

WOLVERINES!

Comment #9: RickMassimo  on  06/23  at  12:38 PM

I’m a little tired of all this “going green” nonsense. Unless you are buying tickets to Tehran to stand beside Iranians and risk getting shot, then you aren’t helping them do shit. Positive thoughts won’t help them and neither will turning your blog green. It just paints you as a fatuous douche who wants to appear involved in something you couldn’t possibly be, and if something analogous were to happen here, would in fact be on the opposite side.

Comment #10: Keith  on  06/23  at  12:47 PM

Sorry for ignoring the actual point of your post, but thank you for getting the “could not care less” thing correct.

Jesus, is there nowhere I can escape the fucking prescriptivists?  Give it a fucking rest, already.

Comment #11: stogoe  on  06/23  at  12:48 PM

When americans take to the streets and protest government action, they are dirty hippies who deserve to be beaten, shot, and arrested by police no matter how non-violent their protests are, even if they are just sitting in the park planning a march!  What changed since WTO, Philly, RNC in NYC, etc.?

Comment #12: Ms Kate  on  06/23  at  12:53 PM

When americans take to the streets and protest government action, they are dirty hippies who deserve to be beaten, shot, and arrested by police no matter how non-violent their protests are, even if they are just sitting in the park planning a march!  What changed since WTO, Philly, RNC in NYC, etc.?

Ms Kate on 06/23 at 11:53 AM

The neocons, creatures in the opportunity-of-misery, being wrong on everything else?

Comment #13: MosesZD  on  06/23  at  12:56 PM

The idea that the Iranians “folded” is a little harsh, Magis. They are pretty much screwed no matter what. If they do succeed in overthrowing their government, it will be at the expense of much blood and treasure (as our “leadership” is fond of saying) and they will be weak. During that period of weakness, the U.S. will likely begin massive terrorist attacks on that country. This could destabilize any new government—which is the point. The only reason the U.S. doesn’t encourage something this tricky is that it might fail and backfire, with a secular, democratic government running off to curry favor with Europe et. al. and resisting U.S. pressure, violent or otherwise.

But yeah, this sudden neocon obsession over color is a fad at its most facile. They’ll have forgotten about this completely in under a month.

Comment #14: No One of Consequence  on  06/23  at  01:01 PM

This is something that has bothered me about the commodification of the Iranian protests: easy bullshit Interweb throwaway gestures like turning your facebook profile green or holding up a “I am Neda” sign to cover your face, (I wasn’t a big fan of “I am Dr. Tiller” either, ftr)... this shit does nothing to stop bullets. It isn’t about support. It’s about fad and fashion and latching onto whatever little meme happens to be the meme du jour.

At least those obnoxious Livestrong bracelets actually sent money towards cancer research.

Comment #15: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/23  at  01:08 PM

But, knowing how Iran’s government works… The change is from a ‘loose cannon’ conservative at the beck-and-call of the clergy to a ‘politely spoken’ conservative at the beck-and-call of the clergy.

That’s the thing, though: Iran’s government is not working right now.  If Khamenei and his supporters had simply accepted the results of the election, they’d have been left with someone whom they’d already vetted and approved, someone who would present a more moderate face to the world while most of the same policies continued on unabated - in other words, just what you said.

Thing is, Khamenei has some sort of personal grudge against Mousavi, fears Mousavi’s personal prominence (Mousavi was once Khomeini’s right-hand man), and doesn’t like even the appearance of moderation that Mousavi puts forward.  He just couldn’t let the election stand.  Now he’s got hundreds of thousands of Iranians in the streets demanding true democracy while even “the clergy” are bickering about just what to do about it.

If nothing else, he’s lost his aura of above-it-all personal sanctity.  As far as the Iranian people are concerned, he’s just one more partisan politician now, and there are people chanting “death to the dictator” from the rooftops of Tehran. 

Don’t just blow all that off like it’s nothing.

Comment #16: Seraph  on  06/23  at  01:09 PM

What changed since WTO, Philly, RNC in NYC, etc.?

Silly Kate, those dirty hippies were <strike>blaspheming</strike> protesting our <strike>Revered Supreme Leader</strike> President in a time of war.  The people in Iran are righteously rising up against the tyranny of <strike>an infidel</strike> a dictator.  Can’t you see the difference?

Comment #17: Seraph  on  06/23  at  01:22 PM

When americans take to the streets and protest government action, they are dirty hippies who deserve to be beaten, shot, and arrested by police no matter how non-violent their protests are, even if they are just sitting in the park planning a march!  What changed since WTO, Philly, RNC in NYC, etc.?

For one thing those brown foreign types are just so darn cute when they get all lathered up about something.

Makes me nostalgic for the contras.

Which, naturally, makes me think of our Founding Fathers.

Comment #18: ummeli  on  06/23  at  01:42 PM

I am Neda?  How about I am Victoria Snelgrove?

Comment #19: Ms Kate  on  06/23  at  01:42 PM

Uh…Magis…while the Iranian protesters may yet fold (though that seems a rather dismissive word to use, given what they’ve already suffered), I haven’t seen any signs of it yet myself.  The fact that two previous uprisings (smaller than this one, as you admitted) failed doesn’t predict what’s going to happen now.  What are you seeing that I don’t?

Comment #20: Seraph  on  06/23  at  01:45 PM

We all forget how the clerics managed to take over to begin with: a popular uprising deposed the Shah.

Comment #21: Ms Kate  on  06/23  at  01:53 PM

Unless you are buying tickets to Tehran to stand beside Iranians and risk getting shot, then you aren’t helping them do shit.

I can’t help but think of how they “support the troops” at a similar volume and then conveniently lose the directions to the nearest recruiter…

Comment #22: damnedyankee  on  06/23  at  02:42 PM

I can’t help but think of how they “support the troops” at a similar volume and then conveniently lose the directions to the nearest recruiter…

.

HEY!  it’s “support the troops” not “become the troops”.

That would require action and courage beyond buying a Chinese yellow ribbon magnet.

Comment #23: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  06/23  at  04:22 PM

I’ve “loving” the more popular talking point about how Reagan didn’t go to the Berlin wall and etc. etc.
*Reagan masturbation*

Not only could to two situations be more different but the comparison in light of world history and events since the 80’s is just crap.

One more notch to make any mention/comparison of Reagan with anyone as bad as making a Nazi/Hitler analogy.

Comment #24: Danica Lefse Queen  on  06/23  at  06:40 PM

...every last one of them believes the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with the poison gas that has debilitated tens of thousands of Iranian men.

Let’s not forget that Bush Sr. actually did have CIA radio (Voice of Free Iraq) in Iraq telling Iraqis to overthrow their dictator, any semblance of govt. etc.  - then we just left Iraq (and esp. the Kurds) to hang after Desert Storm. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War)

Comment #25: Danica Lefse Queen  on  06/23  at  06:46 PM

Danica, why stop there? How about the CIA and MI5-engineered coup of 1953, which toppled the democratically elected Mossaddeq government and installed the Shah, largely because Iran had nationalized their oil industry? Americans as a whole might not be able to remember anything newsworthy past yesterday, but people in other parts of the world have loooong memories.

Oh, that’s right, I hate America, that’s why I bring it up.

make John McCain’s little soldier tingle

[frantically scrambles for eye bleach]

Comment #26: Henry Holland  on  06/23  at  08:36 PM

Jesse: You, Amanda, and Auguste made your reservations about “going green” abundantly clear some time ago, and many of us who disagree with you explained why we disagree.  If you have made this post simply to point out that Glenn Reynolds is a douchebag who is not ideologically “pure” (or even sincere) in his greenery, well…no shit.

Time to put this straw man up, methinks.

Comment #27: Felix Culpa  on  06/24  at  11:49 AM

I still think the biggest bit of wankery to come out of this so far is from Eric Raymond. He’s appointed himself the public contact for a bunch of people setting up squid proxies, which is indeed a helpful thing to do. But still…

This role carries a non-zero risk that I will be targeted for assassination, or interrogation followed by execution, by agents of the Iranian regime - we’ve had more than one death threat against core members already. I take this risk with eyes open because we need somebody to be public, and I know I’ve already been a jihadi target since 2006; at least I can keep some other poor bastard out of the line of fire. I now expect to remain continuously armed for the duration of the Iranian crisis.

Wolverines, and all. But, you know, with keyboards.

Comment #28: grendelkhan  on  06/24  at  12:30 PM

<i>I am Neda?  How about I am Victoria Snelgrove?<?i>

These are the same people making jokes about Rachel Corrie.

Fuck them all.

Comment #29: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/24  at  02:22 PM
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