Yeah, I don’t like the move either.  If anything, I think he’s trying too hard to get everyone on his side… It is just going to be a fact that everyone isn’t going to like him, vote for him, or agree with him.  Probably not the best choice to embrace someone who is clearly so bent on taking away other people’s rights.

I agree, except for this: I don’t think Warren does genuinely believe that Obama is a fascist, or an abortion-Holocaust-abettor, etc.  I think he just finds that claiming to believe those things is an effective road to money and power.

Wait, I read on the internets that Obama is a fascist abortionist….........are you saying he’s not???  Do you have a link or somethin?

It is as if rather than thinking that intolerance of intolerance is the real intolerance, Obama thinks that tolerance of intolerance is the real tolerance.

Wouldn’t it have been great if he’d invited Carlton Pearson?

I have a feeling Rick Warren, in the end, will not be giving the invocation.

CONSTITUTIONAL LAW

FINAL EXAM

NAME: ___________________________

Explain, with reference to Loving v. Virginia and Bowers v. Hardwick, why liberals who protest intolerance are the truly intolerant ones among us.  You have three hours.  Do not reference Fatman’s confusing comment above.

one of the reasons I voted for Obama was his refusal to “suck up” to the religious bigots . I really feel betrayed.

Good luck with the exam.

(And, of course, down with Rick Warren).

I have a feeling Rick Warren, in the end, will not be giving the invocation.

If that’s the case, then right-wingers will probably campaign to have Rev. Joseph Lowery replaced, too.  You know, the guy who took the opportunity of Coretta Scott King’s funeral to rail against the Iraq war in a forum that Bush couldn’t walk out of, so he was forced to sit and listen.

The longer this goes on, the more I think the Warren controversy was partly planned to cover for Lowery. 

(In case it needs to be said, Lowery is very vocally pro-gay.)

The longer this goes on, the more I think the Warren controversy was partly planned to cover for Lowery.

Maybe you’re right. He just should have had neither, and gotten some warm fuzzy non-offensive mainline Protestant for both the invocation and benediction rather than trying to split the difference.

I totally agree with Obama on this one. The world is full of diverse people, and teh gays and their “progressive” allies should just be happy that we are out of the Nazi era.

I thought Pastor Rick Warren did a great and fair interview with Obama and McCain about their faith. He helped a lot of people see Obama as a nice, fatherly, god-revering Christian guy. Rick Warren has also done a world of good on the HIV/AIDS front. So there.

Rick Warren is a powerful member of the evangelical community who actively supports the distribution of condoms in Africa as an anti-AIDS measure.  By making common cause with him Obama lays the groundwork for effective action that will save hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives.  If the price of that is giving a homobigot a little moment of unearned attention, I’m OK with that.  Having Warren actively on side during fights over this issue will help cut the religious far right off at the knees.  Obama could probably do without Warren, but having him on the team is a bulwark against reversals down the line.  I despise Warren and his ilk, but politics is the art of the possible and Obama has more than earned a little slack in the details of which of the many odious compromises necessary to get things done he chooses to make.

They’re still teaching Constitutional Law?  How quaint.  I was attending college a few years back when the Jackson State University School of Business decided that Labor Relations was no longer a necessary requirement for business majors.

I wonder how long before the usefulness of a course on Constitutional Law will have the same relevance?

Enjoy.

“Rick Warren is a powerful member of the evangelical community who actively supports the distribution of condoms in Africa as an anti-AIDS measure.”

I see literacy is not your strong point any more so than science is.

Maybe Rick Warren wants to speak at Obama’s inauguration because he thinks that will be a suitable venue for revealing his recent road-to-Damascus experience.

Maybe we should start a rumor to that effect.

As a U of M Law School grad decades ago who got an A in Constitutional Law, the important thing to remember is all constitional law is balancing.  Good luck!

“Imagine you were at the pinnacle of your life, the proudest moment you could ever hope to achieve.  Would you invite Jonah Goldberg to open at your graduation? “

If doing so defanged him and thereby eased the path to achieving my ultimate goals in life? Hell yes, I’d do it.

Obama is leading by example, opening dialogues that would otherwise fester unapproached. BO is using the examples of Ghandi and King to break down a long-impenetrable wall.  The journey of a thousand miles begins, and this is the first step.

I voted for Obama, knowing in advance that he would disappoint me.  He seems to be intent on setting that process in motion even before being sworn into office.

For all of those who are crest-fallen by this, I say it serves you right for being willfully naive.

Count me as one not all that crestfallen by the thought of Rick Warren giving a one minute speech.

It is, in fact, a brilliant move. An American president is always going to have to throw bones to the religious right. That’s the country we live in. The genius of Obama, so far, is that he only throws bones that are meaningless symbols, but sufficiently grandiose ones that the right can’t really complain.

He is, objectively, the most pro-gay president we’ve ever had. I don’t think a one minute opportunity for Rick Warren to speak really changes that. Contrast that with Bush’s revisions to the HHS rules and then come back and tell me which president is pandering to the religious right and which president is simply setting them up to be swept out of the way.

On the other hand, Obama can claim Warren as an ally and then enact policies opposite to those held by Warren - and now Warren has to decide if he is more interested in staying “connected” to power than in speaking his true opinions. I am not sure that Warren really understands that he is being used and possibly defanged for the next few years.

All this speculation about the true meaning of Warren’s inclusion in Obama’s inauguration seems very premature to me. To those who are saying, this is all just a feint on Obama’s part, Warren is only there as a symbol… how the heck could you possibly know that? To those who are saying that Obama really wants to get heavily involved with Warren and the evangelicals and that Obama will always throw progressives under the bus… once again, how can you be sure? The guy isn’t even president yet, for Pete’s sake.

As far as I am concerned, all we know is that Obama seems smart and level-headed, and is a very eloquent speaker, and has talked about inclusion a lot, and now he’s invited this hypocritical evangelical fool, Rick Warren, to speak at his inauguration.

Sniffle, bite my ass.  Google “Rick Warren aids condom” and the first result is a WorldNetDaily article with this quote” Asked to respond to Muchina’s remarks, Warren told WND he does support condom distribution for prostitutes in impoverished, high-risk AIDS regions such as Africa and India.”  The rest of the article has plenty of supporting quotes on Warren’s willingness to compromise on this issue and to work with organizations that distribute condoms.

The Religious Right is not monolithic.  Warren is not Dobson.  He’s an asshole, but there’s a fissure between his faction and the Dobson faction that Obama can exploit.  Warren’s faction has all the patriarchal bullshit that goes with evangelicalism but it also has major outreach aimed at helping the poor in the third world.  They are actually saving lives with their money, money that in the Dobson faction would be used to cover hangar fees for the pastor’s private jet.

Building a genuine and effective movement also means weakening the opposition, which is what the Warren choice does.  He is evil, but he’s the lesser evil, and empowering him relative to the greater evil is good tactics.  It broadens the coalition to fight AIDS and poverty and it drives a wedge into a weak point within the religious right.  The price is the appearance of disrespect to LGBT people, but there’s no sign at all that this decision will have real concrete political impact on the equality movement.  In a better world that choice would not be necessary, but we don’t live in a better world and we never will unless we’re willing to deal up front with the fact that odious choices are sometime necessary.

togolosh, I was agreeing with you and commenting on the illiteracy of Amanda, who said this:

“Rick Warren and everyone else that thinks you “fight” AIDS by trying to get people not to use condoms aren’t helping nearly as much as we pretend they are.”

She is totally out to lunch as usual.

Ah. I see. I think I somewhat disagree with you on Amanda’s out to lunch-ness.  I think she’s paying too much attention to the egregious awfulness of Rick Warren and not enough to the fact that a certain amount of bone-throwing to the egregiously awful is necessary in order to build coalitions that will be effective in addressing some of the enormous problems we face, but frankly, the man’s a category 5 asshole.  I think it’s worthwhile to point out his awfulness.  It’s also worthwhile to point out his utility in a somewhat cynical strategic calculation.  I hope liberal bloggers will see this and be willing to mitigate their criticism of Obama somewhat.  That does not imply a need to mitigate criticism of warren, though.

Amanda just pays attention to what sounds pc. She could never understand Obama’s choice because she can’t think outside of the box that someone stuffed into her mind.

I don’t think there is anything particularly “awful” about Rick Warren. He holds views that a majority of Americans can accept, if not wholly embrace. Ask the people who voted for Prop 8 if they think Warren is a bad man.

Gays should wake up: the country does not revolve around their petty marriage concerns. Women who want abortion on demand should also be aware that many people feel the same way as Rick Warren. I am not saying that I agree with Warren on gay marriage or on reproductive rights. I am just saying that he represents a large bloc of the American voters, and why should he not be invited to speak if his views can be embraced by at least half the country?

I don’t see Obama as throwing Rick Warren a bone. The preacher has helped Obama a lot in the past and they have collaborated on a few occasions. I think it’s a sincere gesture of thanks and an effort to take a stand on knee-jerk “progressiveness” which is code for mentally deficient people running around and crying foul because they could never get their shit together and get a degree that pays real money, or figure out how to use birth control.

ha ha, Sniffles’ an epic ass and thinks ANYONE here cares about his opinion!
how cute.