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Next entry: Thank heavens for Michael Steele Previous entry: Friday Genius Ten “Make Your Own Choices” Edition

Let me be explicit: Mediocrity is morally superior

Thanks to Roy Edroso for his hard work in recording the atrocities, specifically the atrocities against good taste committed by conservatives ideologically committed to promoting entertainment perceived as being on “their side”, no matter how ridiculously stupid and insipid.  From Roy, I learn that the message has moved from “as long as we can claim that a movie has conservative ‘values’, this matters more than quality” to arguing that quality itself is an affront to their values system.  Or, that appears to be Brent Bozell’s argument anyway.  You see, the sniffing snobs who probably wouldn’t drink Tang either might claim that the Oscars are a trainwreck of bad taste that puts box office receipts, artistic cowardice, and Hollywood politics in front of quality (I’m one of those snobs, naturally).  But Bozell argues that the Oscars are slipping in ratings because they don’t chase the mediocre middle hard enough.  But that they’re improving by including more schlock than they usually do in their nominations.

The 2010 Oscar nominations clearly signal that Hollywood is trying to return to a broader vision of the Oscars, as something more than an insular critics’ circle that likes only the self-consciously arty and obscure. That signal came most obviously with the announcement that there would be 10 nominees for Best Picture. That list hadn’t seen 10 nominations since 1943, when the winner was “Casablanca.”

Arty films that almost nobody has seen are still there—like “An Education.” But arty blockbusters are there as well, like “Avatar”—current box office gross: $601 million—and the animated film “Up,” with $293 million.

Those of us who have memories (or at least access to Google) are impressed by the contention that the Oscars don’t work hard enough to reward filmmakers for making mindless crap that sells well because everyone in the household can tolerate it well enough to go see it and get out of the house, and/or is seen by millions because they’re curious about the special effects.  Remember, James Cameron won before for “Titanic”, just one of many examples of a movie that’s low on quality but high on WTF factors enough to be entertaining and fill seats.  What impresses me is that Bozell has basically taken this faux right wing populism to its logical level, arguing in effect that intelligence and subtlety are in themselves crimes against Real Americans.  Probably because thoughtfulness so often leads to the patriotically incorrect conclusions, like all human beings deserve respect or the world doesn’t end if we act like adults about sex.

Bozell’s main goal in this piece is to applaud the Academy for nominating “The Blind Side” for Best Picture.  It seems that Bozell would prefer to get rid of the Best Picture award altogether, and replacing it with an award called Strongest Pandering.

But “The Blind Side” is about self-discovery. It’s about a large black teenager who discovers he can be a football star. What in the world is wrong with that?

It’s because this too-quiet black character was loved and housed by white Christian people—and critics hated that.

Well, they probably hated it for what’s obvious from the previews, which is that you’ll get a cavity from watching about 5 minutes of the over-the-top sentimentality.  But in order to score tribal points elevating white Christians above everyone else, Bozell plays a little loose with the basics of the story, or at least as I understand them.  This movie is about Michael Oher, who plays for the Baltimore Ravens, and how he was adopted by said white Christian family after he demonstrated talent as a football player as a freshman in high school.  I don’t want to suggest that his adopted family aren’t nice, generous people by any stretch.  Itt seems like Oher was going to school with their kids and bonded with the Tuohys before they brought him in and gave him the help he needed to make it in college, which is a nice story, but this story isn’t being told in a politically neutral zone.  Stories about gallant white parents versus bad black parents are alarming enough in our atmosphere, but then you have to ask yourself questions like, “What if other people are inspired by this story to adopt kids because they think they have athletic skills, and it turns out they don’t?” There’s a lot of places on the road between high school freshman player and the NFL where someone’s career might just go off the rails.  I’m an elitist, so I guess I get caught up in the nuance and complexity, but the audience that Bozell’s writing for fully intends to pat themselves on the back for being part of a morally superior white Christian culture that just so happens to love football.

Of course, it occurs to me that Bozell’s incessant aesthetic Stalinism has drawn me into arguing about this movie on political merits, which wasn’t my intention.  Maybe the movie is good, and actually tackles what is a story that brings up a lot of questions with honesty, nuance, and a real heart.  Contrary to Bozell’s claim, the movie got mixed reviews, not across-the-board damning ones.  But reading through them, they also suggest that the filmmakers decide to dodge any kind of artistic inquiry into the truly interesting themes, and stick to the feel-good sports stuff, and that perhaps it got mixed reviews because the critics are basically saying, “If you’re bored, this won’t kill you.”  In other words, classic mediocrity in mainstream film-making.  I bugged Marc a little about this, because he knows so much about football, and he answered some of my questions about Oher and also pointed out that a movie like this is pitched perfectly to sweep the box office by being aggressively non-offensive and having a little something for everyone, particularly in conservative families dedicated to strict gender role-playing: Sandra Bullock in a football movie says, “This is a chick flick that’s not a chick flick, and plus there’s some kids in it.”  Which is what it is, but not the sort of stuff that should win awards that are earmarked for artistic integrity.

Which is why Bozell’s question at the heart of this is a fundamentally dishonest one:

Why would anyone suggest, by default or design, that crowd-pleasing is the opposite of artistic? Why would the critics suggest that a movie that’s inspirational is clearly inferior to a movie that “dares” to be demoralizing and grotesque? Why would Hollywood only want to be known as a nightmare factory?

Great questions, if anyone said that.  There are in fact movies that genuinely stand out as great films that are fun, heart-warming, whatever.  But in general, this tendency towards “crowd-pleasing” does result in mediocrity.  To put it in sports terms, the movies are playing not to lose, not playing to win—-they’re built around making sure to have a soft hand, to say very little and to put not offending anyone well before actually bothering to say anything meaningful.  When you’re trying to avoid the wrath of philistines like Bozell, you’re not going to make great art.  You’re too busy thinking about what you’re not saying to bother actually considering what you are trying to say. 

It’s telling to me that Bozell got behind “The Blind Side” as an example of what the Oscars should reward, and not a movie like “Up”, which was genuinely a great film and I think by and large something for the whole family.  Part of it no doubt is his wallowing in identity politics, trying to suggest that white Christians are the most oppressed people on the planet.  But I think it’s also because he genuinely finds mediocrity itself to be valuable, moral even.  “Up” actually struggled genuinely with themes of love and loss, and the battle between choosing to live your life or live in the shadows.  All I could tell that Bozell got out of it, though, is that someone was married in it, so it hit his non-offensive checklist and he could sign off on it.  He missed the point of the rest of the movie!  When you’re that dumb, no wonder you think being smart is some crime of “elitism”.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 07:02 PM • (82) Comments

“Why would anyone suggest, by default or design, that crowd-pleasing is the opposite of artistic? Why would the critics suggest that a movie that’s inspirational is clearly inferior to a movie that “dares” to be demoralizing and grotesque? Why would Hollywood only want to be known as a nightmare factory?”

...I’d like to stick around and comment on this, but Kurt Russell: The Disney Years - A Retrospective is playing at my local theater and I was lucky enough to score tickets for my whole family!!!...

Comment #1: MikeEss  on  02/05  at  08:34 PM

For all his other faults, CS Lewis captured this attitude nicely in Screwtape Proposes A Toast, what he calls ‘the tyranny of democracy’:

No man who says I’m as good as you believes it. He would not say it if he did. The St. Bernard never says it to the toy dog, nor the scholar to the dunce, nor the employable to the bum, nor the pretty woman to the plain. The claim to equality, outside the strictly political field, is made only by those who feel themselves to be in some way inferior. What it expresses is precisely the itching, smarting, writhing awareness of an inferiority which the patient refuses to accept. 

And therefore resents. Yes, and therefore resents every kind of superiority in others; denigrates it; wishes its annihilation. Presently he suspects every mere difference of being a claim to superiority. No one must be different from himself in voice, clothes, manners, recreations, choice of food: “Here is someone who speaks English rather more clearly and euphoniously than I—it must be a vile, upstage, la-di-da affectation. Here’s a fellow who says he doesn’t like hot dogs—thinks himself too good for them, no doubt. Here’s a man who hasn’t turned on the jukebox—he’s one of those goddamn highbrows and is doing it to show off. If they were honest-to-God all-right Joes they’d be like me. They’ve no business to be different. It’s undemocratic.”

Comment #2: Half Ass Saint  on  02/05  at  08:38 PM

...oh, and since Godwin is going to make an appearance on this thread sooner or later, there’s this to illustrate some of the ancestors of Bozo’s thinking on art…

Comment #3: MikeEss  on  02/05  at  08:45 PM

The book, The Blind Side, presents a balanced critical view, and not a grotesque cavity-inducing white-christian-glorifying as you describe the movie as portraying (I haven’t seen it). The parents are portrayed as having mixed motives, and the shallowness of their display of christian virtue and self-aggrandizement are quite apparent, but also is their genuine generosity and affection for Oher.

This is just to point out that, to the extent that the movie is vomitorious glurge, the book is not. I really liked the book.

Comment #4: PhysioProf  on  02/05  at  08:58 PM

What MikeEss said. 

We’re witnessing a period of conservative social backlash and its attendant propaganda unique in our history, what with the moralist Tebow superbowl TV ad, and the general hatred and distrust of intellectuals spread by the likes of Faux News.

Welcome to the Intelligentsia, fellow Pandagonians. 

Now, we just need to be viligant because it’s only a matter of time before those Christian conservatives start trying to figure out ways to round us up in the middle of night and march us off to “re-education centers”. 

Mark my words:  It won’t be too much longer before us Jews, athiests, anarchists, free-thinkers, non-conformists, LGBT folk, widows and divorcees (they hate females living without a proper patriarchal control agent) become the next targets of their domestic terrorism schemes.

We should all keep our eyes peeled lest they shoot us at our temples, just like they did to Dr. Tiller.

Comment #5: Mezosub  on  02/05  at  09:16 PM

“vomitorious glurge”

Have to give props for that phrase…one I suspect could quite easily be applied to most if not all of the output of the estimable L. Brent Bozell III.

Comment #6: liberalrob  on  02/05  at  09:17 PM

White parents “adopt” black football players constantly for high school football purposes.  High school sports recruiting is one of the more sick things out there is this country.

Comment #7: Robert  on  02/05  at  09:22 PM

Honestly, the Academy has at times picked strange films for Best Picture.  Of course trying to define “Best Picture” is at best trying to wrangle cats.  Everybody sees what they want in these sort of things.  Conservatives are angry because realistic portrayals of modern war, homosexuality, and generally intelligent films have been winning more often than idiotic dribble.  One could argue that Annie Hall vs Star Wars is a past experience of what is currently happening but while Avatar will probably spawn several sequels the writing is poor and the graphics are excellent and there to cover up the lack of story. 

The whole argument that the blindside is better/worse than the hurt locker is pretty unfair on an apples and oranges level.  Who can claim that the blindside (which I didn’t see but I am assured it was just a simple heart-warming tail of simplicity) against the telling of a painful tale in the era of modern warfare.  Hopefully we can step back from the populist argument against intellectuals sooner rather than later.

Comment #8: Xeranar  on  02/05  at  09:36 PM

One more time for Roman Hruska!

Comment #9: Ms Kate  on  02/05  at  09:44 PM

My one hope for the attention that The Blind Side is getting will get one of Michael Lewis’ other books, Moneyball, back into production.

Or better yet, given the tenor of the times, Liar’s Poker.

Comment #10: NY Expat  on  02/05  at  09:54 PM

We’ve always known Bozell to be an evil troll. But geez, the oscars? I’m looking at the list of winners over the decades, and “inspirational”, “crowd-pleasing” and so forth pretty much describes most of the damn things. OK, maybe not all of the inspirational ones inspire you to be a white christian sports fan, but still…

Comment #11: paul  on  02/05  at  10:33 PM

I, for one, fear to tread this area, for fear of seeing Tim Tebow, The Man coming to theaters near me.  One thing that really fascinates me is that Oher is genuinely one of the best young guys at his position.  I think there really could have been a better movie for his story, if it wasn’t so busy extolling the people who really have agency.

I made my views known earlier, but I don’t really think that Up is an especially challenging movie.  I think it made a bunch of safe moves with a few curveballs to spice it up.  It was good while I watched it, but I suspect Disney’s Princess Bride is probably a more genuinely interesting movie, and I compare all CGI films against The Incredibles, because that film *does* actually make interesting aesthetic and storyline choices wrapped up in a very traditional superhero format.

Comment #12: shah8  on  02/05  at  11:00 PM

this too-quiet black character was loved and housed by white Christian people—and critics hated that.

You can’t tell me that’s not a dog-whistle to the racists in Bozell’s constituency.  “Too-quiet”: Because those awful liberal critics prefer their blacks uppity.

Comment #13: BABH  on  02/05  at  11:56 PM

I think this might be an appropriate thread to revisit this:

http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/just-stay-down.html

Comment #14: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  02/05  at  11:59 PM

but while Avatar will probably spawn several sequels the writing is poor and the graphics are excellent and there to cover up the lack of story. 
...so, exactly like Star Wars, then?

Comment #15: Devonian  on  02/06  at  12:08 AM

Reading you with as little charity as you read him, your argument is that crowd-pleasing equals mediocrity (which is much closer to your actual position than the view you attribute to Bozell is to his). Therefore you think Shakespeare was mediocre.

Comment #16: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  02/06  at  01:00 AM

We have to have “charity” for bad writers who couldn’t find an original thought with both hands and a flashlight now?
Wow.
Does that apply to anyone on the New York Times op-ed pages who isn’t Ross Douthat SIF?

Comment #17: Danica Lefse Queen  on  02/06  at  01:12 AM

You can’t tell me that’s not a dog-whistle to the racists in Bozell’s constituency.

I’d call it more of an “air horn” or an “air-raid siren” than a “dog-whistle”, but that’s just me.

Comment #18: Llelldorin  on  02/06  at  01:12 AM

Interpretive charity is pretty standard: the mere fact that you could read someone as saying something absurd doesn’t mean they said something absurd. Even if the absurdity is much closer to a plausible reading than “quality itself is an affront”.

Comment #19: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  02/06  at  02:30 AM

Reading you with as little charity as you read him, your argument is that crowd-pleasing equals mediocrity (which is much closer to your actual position than the view you attribute to Bozell is to his). Therefore you think Shakespeare was mediocre.

No, it’s that mediocrity equals mediocrity. It’s not necessary to read Amanda’s post with charity to understand that. Just with a brain.

Comment #20: Rebecca  on  02/06  at  02:31 AM

Star Wars was a much better film than Annie Hall. AH is whiny crap. I thought SW was robbed back in ‘78 or whatever, and I still do.

Comment #21: felagund  on  02/06  at  02:44 AM

Therefore you think Shakespeare was mediocre.

No, the plays of his contemporaries which were written for the same audience and may have been more popular than his were at the time have only survived in the memory of Elizabethan scholars, therefore they are mediocre.

Comment #22: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/06  at  02:45 AM

As to the Oher story itself:

Michael Oher went to my high school.  We Briarcrest alums think it’s a bit bitchy of the filmmakers that they changed the school’s name and didn’t shoot a fucking scene in Memphis, instead choosing to shot at Westminster in Atlanta, but that’s another story.

Um.  Sean and Leigh Anne Tuohy are pretty standard “nice, white, rich people.”  They are evangelicals, but it’s important to realize that they actually probably have less in common with people like Bozell imagines than Bozell thinks.  They’re SOCIETY.  These are not suburban dipshits with overextended mortgages on a shittily-built McMansion.  They’re the “in crowd.”  Leigh Anne is a well known interior designer and, by all accounts, works her fucking ass off.  Being a Southern town, society publications are still the norm, and their picture appears in almost every fucking issue, at some fucking gala benefit for some fucking charity.  (Not that I’m fucking totally begrudging that, because this queer has had his picture in there a few times as well, but what are you going to do?  If you do any kind of non-profit shit in the South, you end up in the society pages.) And it’s indeed true that Briarcrest benefited from having Michael Oher as much as Michael benefited from having Briarcrest.  What the Tuohy’s did was great, but I don’t find it to be worthy of a True American Christian Redemption Story.  That would interfere with lots of mani/pedi appointments.  This, though, I think sort of runs counter to the narrative that these Amazing Christian People Gave Everything Up To Bring The Black Child Into Their Home.  Without seeing their finances, I cannot know for sure, but from what little I know, the Tuohy’s have shitloads of money.  They live about a half mile from the multi-million dollar spread owned by the founder and CEO of FedEx in one direction, the owners of the Peabody Hotel Group in the other, across the lake, the owners of Corky’s Barbeque (Yum, if you know what I’m talking about), the founder of AutoZone in another.  When George Bush came to Memphis for fundraisers, he was in the Tuohy’s neighborhood.  They live in a little bit more modest section of the neighborhood, right around the corner from one of Briarcrest’s campuses (“a little bit more modest”).  Sooooooooooooooooooooo!  The sacrifices they made were with their time and commitment, and I commend them for that.  They also helped bring a lot of really good press to the school they love so much. 

Briarcrest is a Christian high school, but it’s not THE insane Christian high school in Memphis.  We had to endure a lot, especially those of us who are gay, but the truth of the matter is that money motivates the place a bit more than religion.  (A bit.)  Those who send their children there are a mix of suburban money, society money, and then those parents who scrimp and save because they want their kids in a “Christian environment.”  (I’m not sure where tuition is this year, but last I heard, they were around 10 grand a year.)  Athletics rules there, but that’s largely because athletics rules in most of the moneyed private schools in Memphis, and they’re always locked in constant competition with each other.  Briarcrest’s athletic complex is something out of a sports fan’s wet dream.  So, I dunno.  Those of us who graduated from Briarcrest, but who don’t really give a shit, are all a bit bemused by this story, because these people have been in our orbit forever.  But I don’t find the Briarcrest environment to be representative of “tradishnul murka” as wingnuts imagine it.  The year I graduated, there was an entire row in the parking lot devoted to the hot boys whose mommies and daddies had bought them Hummers for their 16th birthdays.  They all parked together.  It was cute, in a grotesque detached-from-reality sort of way.  (Come on, I was a closeted 17 year old.  Some of ‘em were hot.)  Again.  Money.  Athletics.  Superiority.  The constant gaze of a boys’ school called MUS (secular) constantly hovering over their every move in those arenas, as MUS was considered to be superior, both in society affiliation (denoted by the various wings named after people with roman numerals after their names, the progenitors of students with more roman numerals after the same names:  Battle Dunavant Shea IX, shit like that.  (Not a real name, but a combination of three names of people I know.  They would laugh.)  And yes, these are the type of people who are eating this attention up.  But for them it’s more about graduating to a higher level in the Memphis social strata, the one where they’re not just society in Memphis, but people in other places know who they are too! 

Anyway, not sure if I really had a point, but just wanted to add a bit of inside perspective.

Comment #23: Evan Hurst  on  02/06  at  03:42 AM

Why would anyone suggest, by default or design, that crowd-pleasing is the opposite of artistic? Why would the critics suggest that a movie that’s inspirational is clearly inferior to a movie that “dares” to be demoralizing and grotesque? Why would Hollywood only want to be known as a nightmare factory?

Dishonest, indeed. Yes, why would anyone say that? Well, no one’s fucking saying it, so that’s kind of a stupid question, isn’t it?

History has repeatedly demonstrated that the categories “crowd-pleasing” and “artistic” have absolutely no proportional or causal relationship whatsoever. Any argument based on the equivalence or non-equivalence of one category with the other is just so much navel-gazing gibberish, whatever one’s personal opinions of the specific examples involved.

ScaryIntolerantFundy:

Reading you with as little charity as you read him, your argument is that crowd-pleasing equals mediocrity (which is much closer to your actual position than the view you attribute to Bozell is to his). Therefore you think Shakespeare was mediocre.

Reading Bozell without a self-serving ulterior motive should make it quite obvious that his position is based on an ideologically-motivated lie. Critics did not, in fact, universally pan The Blind Side because they hate Christians, yet that false claim is a core premise in his argument for rewarding it. And you’re going to have to come up with something a little better than a veiled “I know you are, but what am I” argument before you can even pretend that your little “Amanda thinks Shakespeare is mediocre” jab is going to stick.

These are exactly the kinds of things we mean when we say that conservatives are mostly arguing in bad faith, and where they’re not arguing in bad faith, they’re just arguing badly.

Interpretive charity is pretty standard: the mere fact that you could read someone as saying something absurd doesn’t mean they said something absurd.

Interpretive charity is for junior high school book reports, Oakland Raiders fan blogs, and rote apologetics. Out here in the real world, failing to read between the lines is a sign of intellectual laziness.

Comment #24: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/06  at  04:02 AM

Rebecca;

She comes a lot closer to asserting that-crowd-pleasing equal mediocrity than Bozell comes to asserting that mediocre movies are morally superior to good ones.

At some point you have to recognize that disagreement is possible. There really are people with unaccountably bad tastes, and few if any who prefer bad movies for the sake of their badness, unless it’s ironically. Likewise, people really do disagree with her. Trust me, we don’t all agree with her on every single little thing, and then deliberately choose positions which we evaluate to be just as bad and wrong as she does, out of sheer “deeply broken"ness.

Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein;

You completely missed the point.

Comment #25: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  02/06  at  04:03 AM

Break the Terror:

Corky’s Barbeque (Yum, if you know what I’m talking about)

Yes, indeed. I can strip a full rack of Corky’s baby-backs to bare bone in a shockingly brief period of time.

OK, this thread is now about barbeque. Go.

Comment #26: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/06  at  04:05 AM

This movie is about Michael Oher, who plays for the Baltimore Ravens, and how he was adopted by said white Christian family after he demonstrated talent as a football player as a freshman in high school.

Actually, the movie kind of plays fast and loose with that fact. In the movie, the Michael Oher character demonstrates athletic talent at basketball. That’s what motivates the football coach to pressure the school to admit him: a boy that size with that kind of athletic talent would be a natural at football. But it’s implied that the kid never played football before joining the high-school team.

To make it more complicated, the real Michael Oher did in fact play football in junior high (even before, IIRC). That’s one reason the real Oher was exasperated with the movie, to the point of refusing to see it.

My own take on the movie: Not great by any means (the saintly-inarticulate black character is rapidly becoming an obnoxious stereotype), but Sandra Bullock’s performance was very enjoyable. I wouldn’t mind seeing her win an Oscar.

Comment #27: Bitter Scribe  on  02/06  at  04:06 AM

Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster;

“Out here in the real world, failing to read between the lines is a sign of intellectual laziness. “

Unless conservatives do it, then it’s “strawfeminist is made of staw”. But that’s different, because we really are made of straw, the worst possible things—worse than possible things!—really are are true of us. So who cares that he never actually argued against quality itself, he must be against it, because he can’t honestly like that popular schlock, can he? Lines man, read between them!

Comment #28: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  02/06  at  04:13 AM

Now an admission: I don’t much follow movies, I didn’t see any of the movies mentioned, and haven’t read any of the reviews of the football movies. No, I’m not arguing in bad faith, because I’m not defending the quality of the movie, and I’m not defending Bozell’s characterization of the reviews or of the Oscars. What I’m commenting on, specifically and exclusively, is the absurdity of supposing that Bozell is arguing against quality as such, or that conservatives in general do so.

Comment #29: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  02/06  at  04:19 AM

Yes, indeed. I can strip a full rack of Corky’s baby-backs to bare bone in a shockingly brief period of time.

OH MY GOD!!!  Isn’t it enough that you liberals are aborting them?

Comment #30: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/06  at  04:47 AM

SIF, Bozell is arguing that critics (generally the authority on “quality” - one may disagree with a particular review, but in general that’s the implication) hate it because it’s about Christians, and praising it. It’s hard not to spin that as “Christians = more important than quality.”

Comment #31: Rebecca  on  02/06  at  04:59 AM

Eh. I’m actually shocked that Avatar is as big as it is. When I first saw the movie, my reaction was, great movie, going to be a HUGE flop. Why? Because people generally don’t go in for the type of world building in movies that you seen in Avatar, or a certain sub-genre of sci-fi/fantasy as a whole.

And yeah. I think Avatar is a great movie. Is the story thin? Well, it uses a bunch of pre-established tropes and puts them together, like pretty much every other movie made. The acting is decent, but the meat of that type of sci-fi movie is in the world itself. And that’s where the movie shined I thought.

I guess being able to leap over the uncanny valley will do that for you. I don’t think it’s the best movie of the year (Up, I think is), but it possibly could be the most artistically important.

Comment #32: Karmakin  on  02/06  at  05:15 AM

SIF:

Unless conservatives do it, then it’s “strawfeminist is made of staw”.

Part of what makes a conservative a conservative is that even if they’re theoretically capable of deep analysis, they avoid it like the plague because the resulting nuance and complexity would totally mess up their simplistic, self-serving worldview. Ironically, Bozell is a perfect example of two of the accepted substitutes for analysis in conservative circles, which are name-calling and dishonesty.

What I’m commenting on, specifically and exclusively, is the absurdity of supposing that Bozell is arguing against quality as such, or that conservatives in general do so.

Seriously? He calls critics “snooty.” He uses the word “elitists” in a completely unironic way. Twice. He quotes critics for the sole purpose of calling them names, without ever once addressing the actual content of the claims. The article is, what, twelve paragraphs? A few hundred words? You don’t throw out that many cynical faux-populist dog-whistles in that little copy unless you’re trying to smokescreen for the claim that our cultural standards are too high. It’s not like that’s the whole fucking point of the “liberal elitist” smear, or anything.

But the funny thing is that not even Bozell himself is willing to go so far as to claim that it’s a good movie — never makes an argument for it — yet he still thinks it ought to be rewarded. Oh, he says that it could be a good movie, in theory, but that’s a purely abstract claim that he had to make because without it his article would be completely pointless, instead of just dishonest pandering. His sole evidence that it deserves an Oscar nomination is that A) it’s popular, B) liberals hate white Christians, and C) whine whine bitch moan critics are so mean whine moan. Hell, he doesn’t even really appear to have a very good idea of what the movie is about, or that it was a book first, or that the movie is a remarkably poor adaptation of that book, or that it’s completely unremarkable and wholly conventional from a technical standpoint.

From where I sit, you seem to think that none of us have ever seen anything like this before and we’re all just grasping in the dark for something mean to say about the nice white guy’s article.

This ain’t our first rodeo, jack.

Comment #33: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/06  at  05:53 AM

Haven’t seen the movies, didn’t read the original article, but from what Amanda excerpts it does appear that Bozell, like any Stalinist, or any Victorian sentimentalist, only finds value in art with a moral.

Comment #34: bad Jim  on  02/06  at  06:02 AM

OK, so I have a prblem here. And I admit that I’m months too late to this discussion because I didn’t see the movie in the cinema and so missed all the Pandagonian wisdom about it at the time. But - what is the point of <i>Up<>?

All I got from it is that while men, boys and exclusively male canines get to have adventures like going to South America in house tied to baloons (a House! Tied to BALOONS! I totally want to do that!!), women/wives think that being married for fifty years to someone you met in grade school is enough of an adventure for them.

I mean he was a nice guy and all, and props for loving his wife that much, but when did Allie the interpid explorer turn from an unstoppable motor mouth into a nice old lady? Given that she stops speaking by age 10 and dies about 5 minutes later, it’s hard to say. And speaking of speaking, how come there wasn’t a single line of dialogue for an adult female character? AND HOW DID THERE GET TO BE SO MANY DOGS?

I’m nonplussed. And all my friends think I’m aheartless feminazi hatin’ on Pixar for no reason. I need help here, people. Hit me with your wisdom stick.

Comment #35: MarinaS  on  02/06  at  07:49 AM

Personally, I’m kinda loving the giant leaps he had to make just to support his premise. I mean, he couldn’t highlight Avatar because it’s the current number one boogeyman on the right about how Hollywood is coming to rape them in the middle of the night with its gay jew tentacles. He couldn’t highlight District 9 because it actually sucked at the box office and premises that racism and open exploitation are bad things. He couldn’t even go for Up because I don’t know actually, was it the Asian kid? Or did Pixar get on some permanent shit list for joining up with gay, stylish Apple? And Inglorious Basterds was just right out for daring to shine a negative light on propaganda.

But yeah, simple elimination ended up with them doing their conservative retcon on the weakest movie of 10 despite ample “big movies” to choose from.

I’m not even sure it’s based on any consistent ideology of mediocrity. Conservatives talking about Hollywood like to decry how giant and dominating and liberal it is but they also love finding one blockbuster in the mix and raving about how it was deeply conservative by basically trying to strongarm some “there” there (see their attempts to claim that the Lord of the Rings Trilogy were deeply conservative) and also reinforce the “we are a persecuted majority” crap religious right christians douse themselves in.

Comment #36: Cerberus  on  02/06  at  08:05 AM

Also on Avatar, I suspect where it most shines is that as a piece of narrative story, it’s formulaic, overwrought, and doesn’t try and overly innovate. In short as a piece of fiction, it’s forgettable.

But as a piece of (visual) art, it’s really quite a masterpiece and not just because it managed to pull up out of the uncanny valley that was beginning to plague 3D animation studios. Trapping you in the essence of an impossible place, presenting essentially an artistic rendering of a world capable of drawing in a character and making them feel they were actually there, allowing it to be raw emotions and do most of the work of an absent story.

As a piece of visual art, it’s quite stunning and is probably receiving most of its critical and academy buzz from that alone and while we can say, yeah, but they have a category for that. Well, they also have one for best screenplay, but the best picture is one that’s supposed to do a great job of marrying the various visual, narrative, and musical aspects into one piece of art whole.

While we would naturally expect the greatest work of narrative to receive the most weight in that final tally, it could be the case that something is so visually artistic that that deserves special mention and note above the usual.

Especially at a time when the visual arts awards have often been going out for, “yes, your studio did the most flashy bullshit with your retread, lifeless elements to mildly entertain the sensibilities of drunk frat boys, here you go”.

While lacking anything approaching his narrative, it reminds me of the power of the visual art style that dominated Kubrick’s classics. Not saying that Avatar is even in the same league as 2001 or Full Metal Jacket, but in terms of letting the visual art lead, there’s more there there.

Just my two cents on why the Avatar nomination.

Comment #37: Cerberus  on  02/06  at  08:16 AM

Without seeing their finances, I cannot know for sure, but from what little I know, the Tuohy’s have shitloads of money.

Lewis goes into their financial position in the book.  (Apparently he and Sean Tuohy are old friends, and this whole thing kinda fell into his lap.)

He also describes how Briarcrest and its ilk are white-flight schools, created when Memphis’ public schools were de-segged.  They don’t straight-up refuse to take black students, they just set their tuition at a point which your basic Memphis black family can’t afford.

***

the real Michael Oher did in fact play football in junior high

I think the point is he’d never played offensive line before.  A major theme in the book is how the position of offensive left tackle evolved into one of the most critical—and highly-compensated—positions in the pro game.

Comment #38: Thlayli  on  02/06  at  09:17 AM

Crowd-pleasing need not equal mediocre, but as an empirical fact, most films of the crowd-pleasing variety are trash. Even fun trash like Star Wars or Avatar is still, ultimately trash. If we’re serious about rewarding actual artistic achievement, we should look beyond that. For all that I got into a heated debate about the merits of QT in a thread here a few days back (did see Inglorious Basterds last night), I’d ten times rather something like IB honored than Avatar. Tarantino has his faults but he’s an artist in a way that Cameron will never be.

Comment #39: Jerry Vinokurov  on  02/06  at  09:18 AM

SIF, Amanda isn’t arguing that popular = mediocre, she’s arguing along the lines of Sturgeon’s First Law, which is that 90% of everything is crap.

Can you demonstrate, using quotes from what Amanda wrote here, that in fact she’s just against works that are popular in general, as with your Shakespear example?

As they say in math, you haven’t shown your work, you just demonstrate your scary intolerance towards any kind of logic when it afflicts and is applied to one of your own.

Comment #40: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/06  at  10:41 AM

Um, Cerberus, the Lord of the Rings trilogy IS deeply conservative. It’s pretty obvious in the movies, but the books are straight up about it. Men fight, women pine; bloodline is all; whiteness is an indication of good character.

Comment #41: felagund  on  02/06  at  10:44 AM

I gotta say that “conservatives” in America must be the most downtrodden and discriminated against group of all time and in any culture — while being in a completely and unquestionably dominant position in recent American culture for, oh, the last 40-years or so.

How terribly they must suffer: completely controlling the media and the framing of every issue, controlling Congress whether they are the in the majority or the minority, controlling the Presidency whether their man is in office or not, having most of their cultural whims catered to regardless of their validity or logic, etc.  Short of outlawing the Democratic and any other slightly leftish political parties, and eliminating blue states from having representation, it’s difficult to see how they could be more in control without a Republican president declaring martial law or a having a military coup.

And now they can’t even get a slew of Oscars for one little heartwarming movie about a Negro boy being raised by Real White Christian Americans to overcome his natural genetic inferiority and become successful by the grace of God and Pat Robertson?

When I think about how mistreated they are in a society that is totally structured around their wants and beliefs, it truly brings tears to my eyes…

...tears of laughter, but those are still tears, right?...

Comment #42: MikeEss  on  02/06  at  11:16 AM

Reading you with as little charity as you read him, your argument is that crowd-pleasing equals mediocrity

What you mean is, “Reading you with as much inaccuracy as you read him with accuracy,” which is a weird move, but okay.  But if you really want to misunderstand me as much as I understand him, you should say, “your argument is that flying monkeys make rainbows.”

What your interpretation of my post was is called “illiterate”, which would explain why you’re a fundie.  The last paragraph precludes your interpretation, as does other instances where I point out that great films occasionally resonate.  My point was that Bozell celebrates mediocrity for itself, because he seems to find challenging art to be upsetting.

Comment #43: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  11:19 AM

You can’t tell me that’s not a dog-whistle to the racists in Bozell’s constituency.

Yeah, that was so vicious I couldn’t even deal with it.  Also, I didn’t want to argue about whether Michael Oher is a gabby man.  He’s not, from what I understand—-truly a man of few words.  The problem is Bozell thinks that’s a virtue in a black man, when it is a simply neutral statement, regardless of race or gender.

Comment #44: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  11:21 AM

They are evangelicals, but it’s important to realize that they actually probably have less in common with people like Bozell imagines than Bozell thinks.  They’re SOCIETY.

In conservative terms, rich white Society evangelicals are “the people”.  Right wing populism is pitching wealthy white Christians against an “elite” that is poorer than they are, generally.  Right wing populism is about people living in large houses resenting people who live in 800 sq. ft apartments, but who read books.

Comment #45: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  11:29 AM

Unless conservatives do it,

Because you do it dishonestly, illiterately, and in bad faith.  You ascribe arguments to me I went out of my way not to make.  Bozell upholds the superiority of mediocrity by accusing the book-reading “elite” of hating something just because it’s popular, something I quickly disproved with the universal acclaim for “Up”. 

You’re lying, which kind of proves that your “religion” is a tribal cudgel more than a real belief system, or you’d take the commandment not to bear false witness a little more seriously.

TheLady, the point of “Up” was that grief, while valuable, should not prevent you from living your life.  The old man was the main character, but the little boy also learned that he cannot put his life on hold waiting for his father to care about him.  You can make the argument that the way it played out the theme was sexist—-I think there’s an argument there—-but it doesn’t preclude the fact that this was indeed the theme, and that it was played out touchingly and effectively.  To say, “It offended my ideological beliefs by being yet another movie that puts men’s experiences in front of women’s, therefore it isn’t art” is to engage in the same kind aesthetic Stalinism that I’m pounding Bozell for.  To make it worse, the accusation of sexism only makes sense in the context of the larger picture, where women’s stories are never told. If “Up” existed in a universe where women got their fair share of screen time in other movies, this wouldn’t bug you or anyone at all.  So you’re twice removed from an argument that “Up” as a discrete work cannot be considered good on its own merits.

I would go about what you’re doing not by bashing good movies, but demanding more good movies about women.

Comment #46: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  11:35 AM

“You’re lying, which kind of proves that your “religion” is a tribal cudgel more than a real belief system, or you’d take the commandment not to bear false witness a little more seriously.”

...ah, but Amanda, don’t you realize that lying to <strike>the infidel</strike> Dirty Hippie Liberals is not only excused by <strike>Allah</strike> Jesus but actively encouraged?...

Comment #47: MikeEss  on  02/06  at  11:46 AM

And on your questions about the movie, well South America does have dogs!  I’m not sure where you got the idea they don’t.  And I got the impression Ellie didn’t “stop talking”—-usually you don’t talk in montages.  It’s more than implied that their marriage was exciting for them even if they didn’t go on their adventures, because they loved to talk to each other.  You get a lot of scenes of them just being together doing not much at all, and the subtext is they’re always, always talking.  What I thought was interesting was that the content was rendered irrelevant—-they were trying to universalize the hope for a good marriage, and I think they were very effective at it.  Ellie comes across as a person full of life and common sense, and with only 10 minutes to establish her character, they did so well enough that everyone was sobbing when she died.

Comment #48: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  11:50 AM

I didn’t think Up was a bad movie. I think it’s OK for something to be a good movie and for me nevertheless not to enjoy it: it was good visually, the voice performances were great, it was well paced, as you point out the establishing montages were superlatively executed etc. But I still didn’t enjoy it at all, not because it offended me ideologically but because I just found it boring to sit through yet another affecting personal journeys of a bunch of characters who don’t look or sound anything like me. Surely we can agree that if I can put ideology aside enough to enjoy something, I can put deology aside and still not like it? And if I don’t like it, and I don’t think its appeal is universal because it seems to leave 50% of the universe out, then I can think it doesn’t deserve an Oscar for reasons that are not like, “zomg Stalinism!”.

It’s not even as if my reasons for not liking it were very feminist, technically speaking: I didn’t get into analysing the gender dynamics within the marriage at the centre of the story, or the one between Russel’s parents, or into the masculinity issues around the Scouts or an old man losing his house because he can’t defend what’s his, blah blah blah. For the record, I think most of those things were handled realy well in Up.

Heck, maybe I live in some teensy weensy little bubble of feminist surrealism where the complete and utter absence of female characters in a movie isn’t something that’s twice removed from me because of context and history, but something that’s actually legitimately jarring and fun-spoiling in its own right.

Comment #49: MarinaS  on  02/06  at  12:40 PM

Because men aren’t asked to relate to women very often doesn’t mean I can’t relate to men.  And I’d be lying if I tried to stop relating to men because men aren’t asked to relate to women.  Deliberately teaching myself to see characters as men and not as humans because women almost never stand in for the human experience is aesthetic Stalinism.  Also, it’s not going to get me what I want, which is more movies where universal human experiences are expressed through female characters, and male audiences are asked to relate to women.  It just means I don’t get to enjoy movies. 

There’s nothing about the old man’s experiences that aren’t universal and applicable to women.  Your criticism would be null and void if 50% of movies about the human experience put women at the center.  Why can’t we relate to each other?  I don’t really see the point of breaking into camps and suggesting men can’t relate to women and women can’t relate to men.  The problem is that Hollywood assumes the latter is false (it is) but that the former is true (it isn’t).  If the genders were reversed in “Up”, you’d probably love it.  And be angry if it was suggested men can’t enjoy it.  And you’d be right to do so.

Thus, as a discrete work, “Up” was beautiful and moving, and the dogs were hilarious.  In the context of greater Hollywood, it was yet another movie where men were the stand-in for humanity. Both things are true.  You can criticize Pixar for not having enough female characters without suggesting their discrete works are bad, or that women can’t relate to male experiences.

Comment #50: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  12:48 PM

For the record, I also find it annoying that Pixar seems to think female characters aren’t relatable.  But that doesn’t mean that I don’t find their male characters to be good characters.

Comment #51: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/06  at  12:50 PM

Amanda, I’m not sure just how much my perception overlaps those of TheLady, but I believe that you’re underselling just how conservative Up is as far as its gender politics go.  I mean, the protagonist’s wife’s dream was put away and only restarted as she was about to die!—represented by that sketchbook.  That trip to the far-off gorge never happened because of emergencies that was always sucking up money, but if that had been a real kid, the kid would almost certainly have priority over the car repairs, the car repairs would have had priority over something else.  Moreover, when it came to a real child, like Russell—it turns out he really needed that father figure and his mom is grateful for the help.  Every single thing that had anything to do with the feminine was involved/transmuted one way or another into reproduction—from cload babies to hundreds of puppies.  And when we take our minds off of the babieeees, the movie runs an ongoing joke about how the other dogs are confused about Alpha’s alphahood when he sounds like a girl.  I can keep going on…It’s a nice movie, and I don’t regret seeing it, but I will never watch it again.

I think part of the reason I unpack this kind of thing so quickly is that I read so much japanese manga.  Writers have thought up hoary old plotlines like the one in Up in countless varied ways, and it’s pretty darn simple—Girl gets just enough individuality to be interesting, and some Don Draper out there marries her up and suck the coolness factor from her until she’s nice and conventionally dutifull.  Of course, Mad Men deconstructs this sort of thing because movies like Up (re)constructs the archetype.  I fairly quickly learned to recognize a manga that wasn’t going anywheres I wanted to go when I see girl characters that are built-up but aren’t allowed to play in favor of some favored agency and I drop them from my OneManga reading habits.  One of the things that always blows my mind is just how rarely people recognize when a manga isn’t being sexist.  I mean…Cheeky Angel, while it IS a comedy, is pretty damned radically anti-sexist, but very few people reviewing the manga on Amazon or elsewhere seem to have any inkling that there is a message under all of those laughs.  Psyren is a shonen (you know, an action/superhero comics for younger boys) that allows considerable breathing space for girls and women of different strengths in the main struggle.  It can be hard to overestimate just how fundementally a radical image a charater like Motoko Kusanagi (and Noa Izumi as well) presents to a mainstream audience.  I’m always analyzing this sort of thing for race/gender, not least because (especially in japan) it’s a fairly reliable marker for quality of overall story.  And in Up‘s case, I didn’t like the aftertaste, and I didn’t really want to live in that world anymore and do slash fanfics in my imagination—because of how much the sexism stunted that world.

Comment #52: shah8  on  02/07  at  02:53 AM

For the record, I also find it annoying that Pixar seems to think female characters aren’t relatable.  But that doesn’t mean that I don’t find their male characters to be good characters.

Less Pixar than all of Hollywood including Pixar, but yeah.

It’s impossible for people to relate to women, or black people, or asians, because they’re all too DIFFERENT. But all of those groups can relate just fine to white dudes, because hey, they’re white dudes.

Except for Will Smith, who nonetheless in no way disproves this rule.

Comment #53: Dan  on  02/07  at  03:57 AM

Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster;

You don’t throw out that many cynical faux-populist dog-whistles in that little copy unless you’re trying to smokescreen for the claim that our cultural standards are too high. It’s not like that’s the whole fucking point of the “liberal elitist” smear, or anything.”

Well, no, it isn’t. That simply doesn’t follow.

“From where I sit, you seem to think that none of us have ever seen anything like this before and we’re all just grasping in the dark for something mean to say about the nice white guy’s article.

This ain’t our first rodeo, jack.”

No, I think you’ve all spent years repeating a few bits of long-distance psychology to each other, and now see everything in terms of your demonology, despite its being disconnected from most (or all) actual conservatives.

Amanda Marcotte;

In my first post on this thread, I said, parenthetically, “which is much closer to your actual position than the view you attribute to Bozell is to his”. Now, if I say it’s <i>closer to your position, I obviously know it isn’t your position. I started out by announcing an uncharitable reading, which I never defended as accurate. You assert that I meant it in all seriousness, then accuse me of being illiterate and a liar. Which isn’t coherent, since if I were illiterate I wouldn’t know any better. But in any case, I can at least read an opponent without a fog of outrage obscuring the operation of pretty standard rhetorical forms, which surely counts for something.

Comment #54: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  02/07  at  04:45 AM

SIF:

<blockqutoe>You don’t throw out that many cynical faux-populist dog-whistles in that little copy unless you’re trying to smokescreen for the claim that our cultural standards are too high. It’s not like that’s the whole fucking point of the “liberal elitist” smear, or anything.”

Well, no, it isn’t. That simply doesn’t follow.</blockquote>

“Nuh-uh!” isn’t an argument.

No, I think you’ve all spent years repeating a few bits of long-distance psychology to each other, and now see everything in terms of your demonology, despite its being disconnected from most (or all) actual conservatives.

Yes, because you’re obviously the first conservative ever to find Pandagon. But thank you for demonstrating another important part of what makes a conservative a conservative: deep reserves of narcissism.

But in any case, I can at least read an opponent without a fog of outrage obscuring the operation of pretty standard rhetorical forms, which surely counts for something.

If your only use for the rest of the world is as a tool for patting yourself on the back, you really don’t need to involve the rest of us. That shit is seriously creepy. Keep it to yourself.

Comment #55: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/07  at  05:38 AM

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Comment #56: wuwei  on  02/07  at  06:02 AM

Amanda, can we get off the topic of what’s wrong with me fo not liking the same pop culture things as you, and back to talking about the movie?

You say that there are universal themes in this movie that make it not only worth my while but an intellectual obligation to peel off the layers of normal everyday exclusion of female characters with agency from the plot: but I see very few things that are truly universal (childhood, growing old, fear, friendship) and those are so broad as to make any claim to universality meaningless.

Here are some things (not themes so much as just items) in the movie that I find not only non-universal, but actually tightly bound up with markers that are specific dog-whistle issues for hyper masculinists: you gotta protect what’s yours, pseudo militaristic youth organisations are good for identity forming and self confidence building, marriage ties you down, the obssesive exploration and disruption of remote habitats is heroic…

Plus of course that this movie is so unbelievably American that I had to look up some of the things in it: boy scout badges, tennis balls on walking sticks (is that an American thing? I’ve never seen it before), wooden houses with an attic and a porch, Lindenberg references,  theme parks… That’s a hole lot of cultural baggage to shed before any of this can get through to me as universal, but accoding to you not only am I lazy for not doing the universalising work for the film makers, I’m an actual totalitarian dictator because of it. With a mustache. Which is the bit I find really offensive.

And no, there are no dogs on top of those flat jungle mountains in SA. They’re like land-locked Galapagos, and still pretty poorly explored. That’s their appeal, both to the makers of Up and to Conan Doyle when he wrote The Lost Land.

Comment #57: MarinaS  on  02/07  at  07:57 AM

Late to this thread, but here goes:

...so, exactly like Star Wars, then?

Nah, the first Star Wars re-visited and re-cast the plots of 1930s serials that had been out of fashion for two generations, and made them fresh again via a tight and organic integration with the ground-breaking SFX (e.g. swashbuckling with lightsabres). In that context, even the clunky dialogue kinda-sorta worked.

Avatar‘s plot is a dog’s breakfast re-hash of the relatively recent Pochahantas, Dances with Wolves, and Fern Gully, and really exists only to showcase the ground-breaking SFX. In that context, it’s a lot harder to forgive the clunky dialogue.

Avatar is a proof of concept for two major and disruptive new film technologies—a nomination-worthy achievement in itself in a category that’s so broad as to be rendered meaningless. I wouldn’t be disappointed to see Cameron get Director, because slapping that bird together and getting it off the ground is a major directing challenge (and that’s excluding the producing challenge, because even delivering on Titanic doesn’t confer enough trust when it comes to selling new tech to risk-averse studios).

Reading you with as little charity as you read him, your argument is that crowd-pleasing equals mediocrity (which is much closer to your actual position than the view you attribute to Bozell is to his). Therefore you think Shakespeare was mediocre.

No, it’s clear that her argument is that pandering to a particular audience for purposes of political ideology, to the exclusion of other dramatic and aesthetic risk-taking (e.g. Cameron’s), equals mediocrity—left-wing as well as right-wing is beside the point. More specifically, her argument is that praising a work of art soley on the basis of that pandering is damning it with faint praise and de facto branding it as mediocre in comparison to other crowd-pleasing competitors.

As a faux-populist, Bozell would have approved of Shakespeare only insofar as he appealed to the groundlings. However, as an authority-worshiping prude, that approval would have been washed away by his horror at the racy jokes and the plots which involved the “uppity” lower classes taking the piss out of their “betters.” The good news for Elizabethan-era Bozell would have been a plethora of now-forgotten playwrights who both appealed to the groundlings and re-enforced religious and economic status quo>.

But in any case, I can at least read an opponent without a fog of outrage obscuring the operation of pretty standard rhetorical forms, which surely counts for something.

Have a stale cookie. And don’t get jealous when you see the rest of us at the dessert cart, because there’s no fog of outrage here—just a straightforward assessment of Bozell’s intellectual dishonesty (and, I would add, of your own).

Comment #58: Gracchus.  on  02/07  at  12:14 PM

That’s a hole lot of cultural baggage to shed before any of this can get through to me as universal, but accoding to you not only am I lazy for not doing the universalising work for the film makers

While Amanda may be a bit harsh, every quality film is going to have some amount of cultural baggage and (even pure silly nonsense like the dogs) to be ignored or reveled in as one likes. Either way, the key to deciding whether a work of art has universal human value(s) is looking past the baggage and other cultural trappings to see if the creators were really trying to get at a statement about humanity (often they aren’t intentionally trying to do so, and rarely they fall arse-backwards into it anyhow) and whether they approach being universal.

A few weeks ago (prompted by a reference in an Avatar review—yes, Cameron borrows from this, too) I watched Princess Mononoke, which has all sorts of Japanese cultural baggage (e.g. Iron-age history, Shinto religion, anime aesthetic). And yet somehow I could see that Miyazaki was trying (though not entirely succeeding) to make a universal statement about the balance between human industry and respect for nature. That’s not to say I didn’t go look things up afterward, but that sort of thing is an added bonus for a geek like me.

If an educated and intellectually curious English-speaking Westerner like myself could manage to “get past” the Japanese cultural baggage to the universal human message of Princess Mononoke, it’s hard to imagine why an obviously educated and intellectually curious English-speaking Westerner like yourself (this based on your always interesting comments) would have this much of trouble getting past Scouting badges, wooden Victorian houses, amusement parks, and references to Lindbergh to the universal statement about humanity.

Comment #59: Gracchus.  on  02/07  at  12:39 PM

Here are some things (not themes so much as just items) in the movie that I find not only non-universal, but actually tightly bound up with markers that are specific dog-whistle issues for hyper masculinists: you gotta protect what’s yours, pseudo militaristic youth organisations are good for identity forming and self confidence building, marriage ties you down, the obssesive exploration and disruption of remote habitats is heroic…

You might want to consider that you’re piling your own cultural baggage on top of what are tangential issues to the main message. An equally valid interpretation of those issues might be: you can’t be a doormat in face in injustice; all the Scouting achievments on the sash won’t gain you the approval of a distant parent; marriage can involve compromising the dreams of youth; and exploration of remote habitats in the service of expanding one’s horizons is worthy endeavour (I’ll grant you that the disruption is there, too, but it’s a movie, so conflict must ensue).

Neither interpretation (and I can see a lot of value in yours, especially considering the American audience) impacts on the main message, which Amanda sums up as:

grief, while valuable, should not prevent you from living your life.

Comment #60: Gracchus.  on  02/07  at  12:53 PM

I was watching a re run of the old show “Maude” a few wks ago , and Maude said pretty much the same thing you did. (You know, self identifying herself as an ‘intellectual’ and talking about the burdens she had. The show was a comedy-and Maude’s self image provoked a loud laugh (track).

Well, that anti-intellectualism explains why Maude‘s creator, Norman Lear, didn’t go on a few years later to found an organisation devoted to promote vigilance against right-wing populism during “a period of conservative social backlash and its attendant propaganda.”

Oh, wait…

As usual, corwin, a little awareness concerning the evidence you use to support your points would really help you look like something other than a complete boob.

Comment #61: Gracchus.  on  02/07  at  01:15 PM

Amanda, can we get off the topic of what’s wrong with me fo not liking the same pop culture things as you, and back to talking about the movie?

You’re free not to like what you want, but I suppose when you present an argument for why something is bad, and I disagree, I’m going to go ahead and argue.  I do think that aesthetic Stalinism is a problem for politically minded folks, and one that should be guarded against, because it discredits you.

Comment #62: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/07  at  01:28 PM

What Gracchus said @58.  It’s weird that a scary, intolerant fundy is using Shakespeare as a shield in an intellectually dishonest argument.  After all, Shakespeare indulges ideas scary, intolerant fundies would object to if they a) bothered to read it or b) had a consistent bone in their bodies.

Comment #63: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/07  at  01:32 PM

it’s hard to imagine why an obviously educated and intellectually curious English-speaking Westerner like yourself (this based on your always interesting comments) would have this much of trouble getting past Scouting badges, wooden Victorian houses, amusement parks, and references to Lindbergh to the universal statement about humanity.

I’d add that the peculiar thing about fiction is you can’t tell a universal story most of the time without those cultural trappings.  Because you have to create characters that seem like people, and people have culture.  Without it, they aren’t people. 

I’m trying to think of an interesting story I’ve ever read or seen that had no cultural references at all, and I can’t think of any.  It’s a weird demand to put on a story and implies a general disdain for fiction.  Which okay, if you don’t like it, go with that.  But it would seem like it’s probably best not to engage in the discussion of fiction if you argue with the basic structures of the form.

Comment #64: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/07  at  01:35 PM

Heck, maybe I live in some teensy weensy little bubble of feminist surrealism where the complete and utter absence of female characters in a movie isn’t something that’s twice removed from me because of context and history, but something that’s actually legitimately jarring and fun-spoiling in its own right.

Unfortunately, it’s only going to get worse since The Princess and the Frog got its ass kicked by that piece of shit, Alvin and the Chipmunks:  The Squeakquel.  Disney produced a really good animated musical with a strong female lead and no one went to see it because, ew, it had “Princess” in the title and that’s for girls.  (Seriously, that’s what the market research shows:  people deliberately stayed away from it because of the title.)

So now it looks very likely that they’re going to change the title of the upcoming Rapunzel to disguise the fact that it has a female lead, and The Snow Queen has been put into turnaround because, hey, it’s been proven that no one will go see an animated film with a female lead no matter how good it is so why waste our money making one?

I think that this blog post has an extremely insightful take on why TP&TF; flopped (when you’ve spent a decade marketing princesses to the 5-to-9 year-olds, don’t be surprised when no one else goes to see the movie) but no one’s going to listen to that.  All they can see is that animated films about female characters flop at the box office, so they’d better double down on male characters.

Comment #65: Mnemosyne  on  02/07  at  01:39 PM

I’ll add that as I washed dishes, I thought of other, really great stories you could destroy with highly uncharitable misreadings where the existence of cultural elements are taken to mean that those elements are being exonerated to the point where that is the theme.  For instance, you could say “Pride and Prejudice” is an evil story because it acknowledges and utilizes a culture where the idle aristocracy’s cultural dominance isn’t questioned, where mercenary marriages are the norm, where a rising merchant class based on colonialist wealth is treated sympathetically, etc.  You could point out that the story irresponsibly promotes the idea that marriage is the proper response for women to a misogynist system of inheritance, when of course the Bennett sisters should form a group to revolt against the law, or perhaps excuse themselves for the aristocratic system altogether.  Plus, the story is violently heterosexist.

This is all true, I guess. But I still think the main theme of “Pride and Prejudice” is that love flourishes best when we treat each other with kindness and generosity.

Comment #66: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/07  at  01:45 PM

Is it too soon to start the “Precious didn’t win the Oscar cause the voters are racists!” meme?

Comment #67: ayutokamina  on  02/07  at  02:07 PM

Someone should have pointed Bozell to the IMDB rating system, you know the one where the average rating is put side by side with the number of votes it got, and the Top Films rating system which uses one to weight the other? Because last time I looked, there weren’t thousands of people walking out of An Education in disgust at its poor quality. If a high proportion of people who see a film love it, or are touched by it, it’s probably a great film (Passion of the Christ notwithstanding) regardless of how many people make up that number. Also, a couple of things I had to argue with from Cerebus upthread:

“He couldn’t highlight District 9 because it sucked at the box office”

Budget: £30 million
Domestic Take: £116 million
Worldwide: 204 million

That doesn’t look much like suckage to me. Also, Full Metal Jacket was, compared to Apocalypse Now, Ran, Saving Private Ryan, The Thin Red Line and just about every other ‘epic’ war movie of the last thirty years NOT led by visuals. In fact considering how far Kubrick took his criticism of the war machine and its effect on ordinary young men, the film was far more driven by theme and character arc than just about any other film of the time.

Comment #68: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  02/07  at  02:39 PM

Ahhh, good laffs in the comments: Why TheLady thinks film makers have some sort of ‘universalizing’ duty to perform is beyond me, but Amanda’s demolishing of her stance is classic.  And I didn’t even especially like “Up”.

I’d say Grachus has the best grasp of the dynamics of film-making (and producing), and Cameron’s impact.  Also good: someone above defended the world-building aspects of SF works of art, something that is neglected by those people focused on literature: something can be good SF, and still be rather crap literature, because the focus IS NOT THE SAME.  “Ringworld” is a terrible book, but a fun read, and the _creation_ of the ringworld itself is the artistic/creative act that needs to be judged, not the awful dialog.  (Of course, it’s nice to get all the cylinders firing, but not particularly necessary.)

Comment #69: Eric_RoM  on  02/07  at  03:27 PM

If a high proportion of people who see a film love it, or are touched by it, it’s probably a great film (Passion of the Christ notwithstanding) regardless of how many people make up that number.

Ehhh, I’m going to disagree with that. People like plenty of stupid films.

Part of the problem is that the audience of anything is to some degree self-selecting. People go to see films that they think they’ll like. If any given film was shown to the population at large, its “rating” would undoubtedly be lower than the rating it has from people who chose to see it.

Comment #70: Rebecca  on  02/07  at  04:35 PM

This discussion about cultural baggage reminds me of my wife’s and my reaction to the “silent movie” part of Wall-E.  We couldn’t get past the sexist tropes vis a vis his relationship with Eve:  Girls are clean, boys are dirty and nerdy; the implication that “feminine == baby maker” (Eve’s “directive”), and most of all the Nice Guy(tm) traits of Wall-E with respect to Eve.  The more I think about it, those hand-holding while deactivated scenes are like a kiddie version of the drunk rape scene in Observe And Report.

And yet, except for that link above, I haven’t found any discussion about these issues within the movie, and I looked around quite a bit.  Don’t get me wrong:  It’s not Pixar’s reponsibility to be hyper-aware of how their movies will be deconstructed, but it seems odd to me that Wall-E gets a free pass.

Comment #71: NY Expat  on  02/07  at  04:53 PM

Feminist and Marxist critiques of Austen do exist, so I think it’s disingenuous to hold her up as an example of something nobody could possibly argue with. I also think that it’s an injustice to P&P;to reuce it to one single idea; and if that’s the comparison we’re drawing with Up here, that both can be reduced to a really good one-liner, then all I think that shows is the movie’s intellectual poverty.

I’ve come to agree with you guys that the grief theme is central to the movie; and yes, it’s a good and valuable idea. I guess it was buried a bit deep for me, or rather it got buried in one earthquake-like moment at the point where he opens the Adventure book at the pages filled in by Ellie and sees her message “thanks for the adventure”. That juxtaposition of his experience with hers reached back across the movie and coloured my perception of what value the film makers saw in his journey vs. Ellie’s life. Fundamentally it let down the passion for exploration and adventure that brought the couple together in the first place.

Should I have risen above my irritation to grasp the underlying valuableness of the film? Perhaps. But unlike P&P;with its multiple finely observed depictions of marriages, sisterhoods, friendships, allegiances, dependencies, responsibilities and loves, this is, at the end of the day, a cartoon. One that unlike Pricess Mononoke it lacks a serious engagemen with the themes of violence, wildness, primalness and violation, freedom, belonging and transformation that it touches on but doesn’t get involved with - one would almost be tempted to say that the treatment of many of these subject in the film is cartoonish, but that would be a really cheap shot, so I shan’t. smile

Comment #72: MarinaS  on  02/07  at  05:32 PM

NY Expat: despite the schlocky naming of the female protagonist, Wall-E actually passes the Bechdel test (well, it would if EVE could talk, but you know what I mean). It’s got some problematic elements in that Wall-E romantically yearns for something that is essentially retrograde, but there was enough other stuff going on in there to keep me engaged.

Comment #73: MarinaS  on  02/07  at  05:38 PM

“Ringworld” is a terrible book, but a fun read, and the _creation_ of the ringworld itself is the artistic/creative act that needs to be judged, not the awful dialog.  (Of course, it’s nice to get all the cylinders firing, but not particularly necessary.)

I really disagree, especially when it comes to film. Too often film makers focus on cinematography and neglect plotting and dialog. Things like worldbuilding and the like when it comes to SF and good direction when it comes to film are necessary but insufficient. Avatar doesn’t exist in the context of SF movies but rather in the context of the Hollywood “spectacle” made by the “director auteur” in which the screenplay was an afterthought.

Comment #74: Tyro  on  02/07  at  07:02 PM

And Amanda < I really don’t think it’s fair to confront you with requests for evidnece-but one wonders how your prism let you think only liberals read Shakespeare. Is there no subject (unified field theory ?
Neutron stars?) that isn’t grist for your political views?

That’s not what she said, corwin, she didn’t say anything about Royalists like you   wink

Comment #75: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/07  at  07:07 PM

Hollywood is coming to rape them in the middle of the night with its gay jew tentacles.

Please, someone make this movie. :D

Comment #76: Bagelsan  on  02/07  at  07:53 PM

TheLady, the point of “Up” was that grief, while valuable, should not prevent you from living your life.

Uh, what Amanda said.  Anyway, as someone who is struggling, sometimes buried by, grief over the loss of a loved one, “Up” was wonderful and wrenching.

Regarding dogs in South America…The movie didn’t imply that the dogs were natives to South America.  They were all pretty clearly American/European breeds—Doberman, Bulldog, German Shepherd, Golden Retriever—and imported by the explorer guy (I can’t remember his name.)  There are shots of dogs on his airship in the beginning of the movie in the old films.

Plus, it fantasy.  Houses don’t life up off their foundations with the application of few balloons, easy steered through the skies with a weather vane and a few sheets.  It’s seems silly to quibble about the presence of huge packs of dogs in that light.

Comment #77: adobedragon  on  02/07  at  08:57 PM

Plus, it fantasy.  Houses don’t life up off their foundations with the application of few balloons, easy steered through the skies with a weather vane and a few sheets.  It’s seems silly to quibble about the presence of huge packs of dogs in that light.

The one thing that really bugged me in UP and took me out of the movie was the dogs actually flying biplanes.  For some reason, that seemed to me to violate all of the rules that the filmmakers had already set up.  The Cone of Shame makes me laugh, because it fits those characters, but the flying dogs did not.

I did like the Carl and Ellie relationship but I think the message was slightly different:  Ellie was able to find adventure in her day-to-day life but Carl couldn’t.  Carl had to have some of his illusions shattered (like finding out his boyhood hero is batshit insane and homicidal) to understand what she did.  Yeah, it’s a cliche, but a slightly different one.

Also, was I the only one who got the impression that Ellie was older than Carl?  Not by a lot, but it definitely seemed that she was at least a few years older than he was.

Comment #78: Mnemosyne  on  02/07  at  10:02 PM

I did like the Carl and Ellie relationship but I think the message was slightly different:  Ellie was able to find adventure in her day-to-day life but Carl couldn’t.  Carl had to have some of his illusions shattered (like finding out his boyhood hero is batshit insane and homicidal) to understand what she did.  Yeah, it’s a cliche, but a slightly different one.

Ellie seems like the kind of person who can find adventure in anything.  Carl is a shy, timid type who projects his concept of “adventure” onto other people and exotic settings.  A big point of the story is that the trip to South America isn’t Carl’s dream; it’s what he thinks Ellie’s dream was.  He does all this stuff because he thinks it’s what Ellie wanted to do.  One of the most heartbreaking shots in the movie is in the opening montage, when Carl finds the forgotten South America fund jar; his face falls, he immediately turns and looks at Ellie, and you can see how devastating it is for him to think he denied his wife her childhood dream.  The next shot is him buying plane tickets to South America.

Gosh, I love that movie.

Comment #79: Shaenon  on  02/08  at  01:33 AM

Just throwing one more thing into the “Up” discussion: One of the reasons I love the movie is that it is, among other things, a love letter to the classic Disney concept artist Mary Blair.  One of the few women in a creative position at Disney in the 1940s and 1950s, Blair came into her own as a Disney artist during a company trip to South America.  The South America settings in “Up” draw inspiration from Blair’s paintings from that trip, and a lot of the incidental art—the South America map and brochure, the murals Carl and Ellie paint in their house—are rendered in Blair’s 1950s modernist style.

My husband and I worked on a big Mary Blair museum show in Tokyo last year, and the core “Up” crew visited the show on the last day it was open (they were in town to promote “Up,” which was about to open in Japan—incidentally, the Japanese title is “Old Man Carl and His Flying House”).  Pete Docter gushed over all the art on display.  There was one painting from Blair’s South America trip that he particularly loved, pointing it out to his animators and going on about how perfect it was, and, yup, it was “Up.”  It looked just like a shot of the jungle from “Up.”

Among the people thanked in the credits for “Up” is Alice Davis, another Disney concept artist from the same period.  Marc and Alice Davis and Mary and Lee Blair all worked for Disney and were close friends, and Alice Davis is the only surviving member of that group.

Animation nerd AWAY!

Comment #80: Shaenon  on  02/08  at  01:49 AM

My husband and I worked on a big Mary Blair museum show in Tokyo last year…

At the risk of outing myself ... my department loaned you quite a few works for that show.  You would have no idea who I am, though—just another low-level drone in the department.  From the pictures they brought back, it looked pretty awesome.

There are negotiations to bring the show that’s currently at the New Orleans Museum of Art to Japan.  I don’t think it’s going to happen until at least 2011, but it will be well worth your time when it gets there.

And that’s all I’m going to say, because I like my pseudonymity.  grin

Comment #81: Mnemosyne  on  02/08  at  04:38 AM

Mnem @ #66:

You know what’s so bloody tragic? They will too decide that female leads can’t carry a film.

Because, being hot shot movie execs, they remember perfectly well how badly Snow White, Cincerella, Sleeping Beuaty, The Little Mermaid, Pocahontas, Beauty and the Beast and Mulan flopped.

Cause they’re clever like that.

Ugh.

Comment #82: MarinaS  on  02/08  at  01:43 PM
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