Well I prefer to think of My Boyfriend Barack Obama as more of a philosopher king, but yeah, what MikeEss said.

I would also like to know why the blank-eyed fratboys brandishing Sore/Loserman signs during the Florida non-recount process in 2000 were not cultlike usherers-in of fascism, but anyone under the age of 50 who plans to vote Dem this year is?

I bet the real problem for them is the thought of the inevitable comparisons of the crowds that Obama draws to the crowds that McCain draws…

Gakk.

Accept his nomination? Lest you bots forget, Obama is only the presumptive nominee. He doesn’t even have the pledged delegates necessary to claim that title; the bought and sold SD’s are pushing him over that line.

The convention is where the delegates vote to elect the nominee, and they can vote for any candidate they choose. Ah, there’s the rub. Yeah, that’s something Obama needs to avoid at all costs.

When people actually vote they tend to not vote for him. So what’s a selected candidate to do? Why, bypass the convention altogether and just anoint yourself, what else! Better do in typical fascist fashion with thousands cheering in incoherent mob-fueled gusto.

If any of you are still not aware of how much Obama’s entire campaign stinks to high heaven, (and more are waking from the koolaid daze everyday http://tinyurl.com/New-and-Not-Improved) this latest move by them should scare the effing shit out of you.

What next? Logo-tattooed bands of Obama Youth using FISA to report on their parents and neighbors? I mean, this shit ain’t funny anymore.

If any of you care at all that our republic is being hijacked, you’d better wake up - now.

So, basically, it breaks down like this:

Torturing a group of people who are being held sans trial? A-okay!

Cheering? Fascist.

If any of you care at all that our republic is being hijacked, you’d better wake up - now.

Ah, yes, so the alternative is to elect John McCain, who will leave all of the current unreformed Nixonite lawbreakers in place and bring in new ones?

Yeah, that’s a great solution!

No the alternative is to make Clinton our nominee.

I’m sorry, but does no one else find this hilarious?  “He’s only the presumptive nominee!”  Unlike, say, McCain, or Clinton if it had gone the other way, or any other candidate who has begun serious campaigning and planned his acceptance before the actual convention, because we all know that in EVERY OTHER campaign, no one knew ahead of time who the nominee would be.  Therefore, despite everyone else ceding the field and endorsing him and all that, this is SINISTER HUBRIS on Obama’s part and a violation of every democratic principle known to man.

Is this really the best you can do?

meingoldcountry, ok, he’s the presumptive nominee. What would have to happen for him not to get the nomination now that Hillary has agreed that he beat her?

What other names will be on that ballot? Are you saying that people will manage enough write-ins to beat out the only guy left on the ticket?

If not, then I’m totally missing your point.

But then that’s probably the whole point huh. If you weren’t ineffectual losers and would accept a woman for president, you wouldn’t be stuck with his highness.

Hillary only suspended, her name should be on the ballot. Oh course BO’s campaign is doing everything it can to remove her name and bypass the convention all together.

ok kodiac, let’s back up. Are you talking about the convention or the election. I’m talking about the nomination process. That’s what the post is about.

Logo-tattooed bands of Obama Youth using FISA to report on their parents and neighbors?

Has Clinton said anything about FISA since the compromise?

For all the “Oh, you’re surprised Obama is a moderate Democrat!” baiting, I’m not sure how Clinton partisans get off suggesting Hillary’s anything different.

Hillary is a moderate. So what? But that’s why most of you said you wouldn’t vote for her. Well now that Barry is moving farther to the right than even Hillary, and considering his total lack of any qualifications necessary to be president, I expect to to all admit you were wrong.

Bicky, Bicky, Bicky, way to try and change the subject.

If we’re asking for evidence of claims, I’d love to hear this one substantiated

“[Hillary Clinton is a moderate, and] that’s why most of you said you wouldn’t vote for her.”

‘cause I don’t recall our hosts breaking out that meme at any point along the way. Her stance on GLBT, her fiscal decisions, her stance on Iraq, all of those were discussed. But I can’t recall a single poster or regular here saying they wouldn’t vote for Hillary because she was too much of a moderate.

If you weren’t ineffectual losers and would accept a woman for president, you wouldn’t be stuck with his highness.

Actually, if Hillary hadn’t been such a loser, she’d be the nominee right now.

Get over yourself. Like thousands of primary supporters that came before you, your candidate lost. They managed to get on with their lives. You haven’t.

You’re interrupting the narrative of deluded <strike>lefty</strike> righty cheerleaders.

There, fixed that for you.

This is Obama to us http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuB_W8o_UsU

Now tell me just why you decided to support him instead of Hillary, kodiak.

There’s still time. You can join PUMA and get a real nominee. It ain’t over until the convention.

MAJeff I think that you may have just won the circular obfuscation award for that comment, my head hurts just trying to follow if

meingoldcountry, I can’t watch youtube videos at the moment, can you explain two or three points that you find objectionable about Obama where Hillary has taken a clearly contrary point of view?

Because the three points that I mentioned upthread I think are pretty convincing.

eee… sorry about the smilie. I hate those things!

bicky, what are you saying. You’re not supporting her because of her moderate stances on some issues but no one ever actually called her a moderate?

Try to follow along here.

Sorry last comment for kodiak.

I still don’t get your point.

Sorry again bics. I know how you so love calling me a Republican troll. Please don’t stop.

meingoldcountry, I can’t watch the youtube video (and will be leaving in about 30 minutes) so can you summarize why you find it at all convincing in a few succinct points?

The youtube video just shows where Obama got all of his platitudes, from “Yes we can” to “We are the ones we’ve been waiting for”. It’s all a slick marketing ploy by Axelrod, and the same lines were used by his other clients sometimes years before.

You bought product, a shape-shifter, an empty $4000 suit. He doesn’t stand for anything except self-promotion. If he wins the WH, he won’t be in control.

The question is, who will be?

To quote The Smithsonian magazine, once someone makes an inappropriate Hitler/The Nazis comparison, “you have only to say ‘Godwin’s Law’ and a trapdoor falls open, plunging your rival into a pool of hungry crocodiles.”

Godwin’s Law, Mr. Simon. Godwin’s Law.
[And don’t think we forgot you, Jonah Goldberg…]

You want change? Write the super delegates and tell them to cast their vote for Clinton. Cause Mr. Hopy-Changy is selling you down the river, fast.

bics, no, just the words that don’t have uuhh before them. Did you watch the video?

meingoldcountry, so you don’t have any policy points that you disagree with to point out? Instead you point to the fact that to get elected in *any* country that is a genuine democracy in this day and age you have to craft your message carefully (which is kinda where Hillary fell down)? While it’s true that I’d love to see more substance and less gloss, every politician since Nixon has needed a requisite amount of gloss to get elected and I don’t see that changing.

Do you want to discuss actual policy points now?

alittlewickerbeetleshell on 07/04 at 05:06 PM

A cult is a cult. It was meant as Orwellian but oh yeah, I used “Youth”. Well, the supporters tattooing themselves with Obama’s logo and changing their middle names to Hussein are kids.

But wait, didn’t you mean to call me a racist? That’ the more typical reply.

kodiac, yes. I disagree the vote on FISA. I agree with Hillary’s plan for getting out of Iraq which BO has moved to the right, short of saying we’ll be there for 100 years.

That’s not the point. The point is, why on earth are you supporting Obama? If it’s not the the perceived differences in how liberal he is compared to Hillary. Who by the way won the popular vote and almost every big blue state. Obama limped to the finish line but we’re stuck with him because the party is “too invested”.

If you have any sense at all you’re asking yourself that question right now. And when you figure it out, please tell me.

“with” the vote on FISA

ok, you’re right MAJeff, I had missed the crazy up to this point because the NYTimes article referenced was behind a registration wall that I couldn’t get through at the office and the youtube video (while always a troubling sign in an adult discussion about non-pop-culture themes) I couldn’t access.

But deciding that a candidate has no substance based on a small handful of nuts that support the candidate, and refusing to actually discuss real issues.

Sorry, I’ll stop feeding the troll and let you bat him around some more (always entertaining to watch)

Well, no. You’re not necessarily a racist, merely someone who prefers mindlessly spouting Republican-crafted platitudes over the words of the candidate you purport to support.

You claim to support Senator Clinton, but apparently don’t support her as anything other than a club to swing at Senator Obama. You certainly don’t take her at her word when she calls for supporting Obama for President, for example!

And I really don’t think you can self-righteously complain about people calling you a racist (particularly when no-one has) after busting out a line like this:

But then that’s probably the whole point huh. If you weren’t ineffectual losers and would accept a woman for president, you wouldn’t be stuck with his highness.

early in the discussion. Well, you can, but then we’ll all laugh and point (much as we’re doing now).

There’s little that makes me snicker more than Democrats accusing each other’s candidate of ‘selling them down the river’. Pot, kettle.

Of course, one thing the Dems have over the GOP is that they actually have the decency to pretend that they care about the working class, minorities and women. Which is a step above the Republicans, who campaign actively on a platform of ‘screw the working class, minorities and women’.

But I’m just an unrepentant, cynical, far leftist anarchist.

Man, that video is probably the most deranged thing I’ve seen the entire election cycle. 

It starts out as “OMG! Obama is a scary black man who quotes Malcolm X!”  You should probably stop it there, since that’s all you need to know. 

If you’ve got a kick for masochism, it then shows an Obama endorser endorsing Obama and quoting someone else when saying “We are the one’s we’ve been waiting for,” implying that Obama is a plagiarist because he said it too.  Then it shows four other completely unrelated people using the phrase in entirely unrelated places going back several years—thereby proving that it’s a common phrase—which apparently makes Obama a serial plagiarist. 

Then it shows Oprah: Obama supporter making a fool of herself on a bed, which is apparently a dog whistle I’m just not attuned to, since it doesn’t make any sense to me at all.  Then it cuts to her endorsement speech, where she says “...he is the one…”—obviously plagiarism of The Matrix, as the video shows. 

Then of course, come the accusations that “Yes, we can!” is plagiarized from some random elementary school kids singing a song with “Si, se puede!” in the lyrics.  The kids, of course, plagiarized the lyrics from the United Farm Workers—which means that Obama plagiarized twice!  Actually, I think it tries to say that Obama plagiarized “Yes, we can!” from the “Yes, we can!” music video, which features Obama saying “Yes, we can!.” 

Then it manages to get even more inane, accusing Obama of plagiarizing the word “hope” from David Axelrod, since Edwards used the word “hope” in his speeches in 2004, and Deval Patrick used the words “hope” AND “change” in his 2006 speeches—both with Axelrod as their manager!!!!!!!11!!1!!1

Only then does it get to the thing that started the plagiarism nonsense, with the talking points that Deval Patrick later said he gave to Obama to use in his speeches.  That’s been covered elsewhere, I’m sure.

To wrap it all up, the video goes back to scary Malcom X and his scary “bamboozled” speech that scary black Obama plagiarized in order to be blacker and scarier. 

Just who is that video supposed to convince?  And what the hell is it supposed to convice them of?

Wow, it’s like beating one’s head against the wall.

I agree with Clinton’s platform, all of it. What does that have to do with Obama’s flip-flopping?

TELL ME WHY YOU’RE SUPPORTING OBAMA. Please.

It can’t be because his stand on the issues were almost identical to Clinton’s (at one time), because then why wouldn’t you support the one that could actually articulate those issues?

Wasn’t your excuse that he didn’t support the war? Although he voted to fund it over and over again. Or that incredible judgement with which he’s supposed to endowed? Even though his associations reeked of political expediency.

Come on people. Give me one good reason why you are still supporting him.

Why are y’all still feeding the troll after he brought in <strike>Concern Trolls for McCain</strike> PUMA?

More honest critics might be misinterpreting a real difference here. It depends if we trust Strauss and Howe, who published a theory about recurring generations about twenty years ago. They apparently made some predictions that look interesting today. And their theory says roughly that grand moral projects can only succeed when the recurring generations are all at the right ages, placing the right people in the right jobs. President Obama would bring us into Franklin Delano Roosevelt “Crisis” time, when we could actually win a war. The period could also bring leftists and evangelicals together for the cause of saving our environment.

NonWonderDog on 07/04 at 05:43 PM

It evidently doesn’t convince you, since you seem not to care that BO’s a Madison Avenue creation. But when I see people buying that crap, I get scared.

I repeat. If Obama is a product, if he has no resume, no grasp of the issues, then what in hell do you see there?

Because that video is basically what I see, overly dramatic in it’s portrayal perhaps, but yeah. That’s about it.

Meingoldcountry, please explain HRC’s resume to me. Please concentrate on areas of her resume that make it more impressive than Obama’s. Also, since you agree with “all of it,”(i.e. her platform) being asked to address a few points of it shouldn’t present a great difficulty to you.

hf on 07/04 at 05:52 PM

Not the lest of the problems with that article is that Obama is 46. So he’s not in the 20 - 40 y/o generation.

Would everybody please stop feeding the troll?

Wow, wow, wow.

Give me ONE reason you support Obama. Anyone, please.

one reason?

here’s my new fav:

” Others privately said they feared an Obama landslide. One participant said he couldn’t imagine anything worse. “Obama has done the impossible,” he said. “He’s made Hillary Clinton look good to Christian conservatives.”  ”

if he scares the Christan Conservatives THAT much there’s got to be something to the man!

DeadMan

DeadMan

It’s all about Hillary, isn’t it? Well considering his recent pandering to evangelicals, I guess you’re going to have to come up with something else.

Hey MeinGold, are you asking us to support a person who, with all of her “experience”, couldn’t manage victory over this empty suit flip flopping plagiarist you keep yammering on about? 

Oh, you slay me so ...

Briefly taking you more seriously than you deserve, I’ll give you four:

(1) Obama has extensive and recent experience at the state level—he was an Illinois state legislator for eight years. I think we need a President with fairly recent state experience, given how many domestic Republican programs have fomented disasters at the state level.

(2) Obama correctly argued against the war back in ‘02. I know you’ve convinced yourself that this was no big deal, but if you remember the political environment back then, it was considered certain doom for any politician—particularly one with national ambitions—to argue against the war at that time.

(3) Obama ran a better campaign than did Clinton. If Clinton had run her entire campaign as well as she did from Texas on, she’d be the nominee right now. Instead, she managed to parlay an overwhelming advantage in name recognition and institutional support (remember, she started with more than a hundred more superdelegates supporting her than Obama) into a slight loss, through one of the worst-managed campaigns in recent memory.

(4) Her supposed supporters scare me. They come into notable feminist blogs and cheerfully accuse the denizens of sexism. They accuse Obama of being a “Madison Avenue candidate”, and as proof they offer a heavy-handed propaganda video. They claim to support Clinton’s entire platform, ignoring the fact that part of that platform is now the election of Barack Obama as President. In short, the folks who still claim to be supporting Clinton (and make much of the fact that she—apparently not having tens of millions of dollars just lying around her house—has suspended her campaign instead of ending it) are effectively indistinguishable from Republicans who think we really are that stupid.

NonWonderDog on 07/04 at 05:43 PM

Check out flineo on YouTube. He’s got some really good stuff.

Huh?  Do you want me to comment on other ridiculous propaganda videos (not my job, man), or do you really think that ridiculous propaganda videos will sway me to support the destruction of the Democratic party?

Lielldorin. Thanks for trying, I respect that.

1. If you research his time as state rep, I think you’ll change your mind about that one. And I don’t mean from his website. The amount of time he voted “present” to the flurry of co-authored bills he put his name on to look like he was doing something, all shows how little difference made to the people of Illinois. His wife made out pretty well though.

2. Certain doom for anyone who actually was in the position to do something, maybe. But the sentiment within the Democratic party was such that it wasn’t risky at all.

3. Clinton went up against Axlerod. Are we picking a candidate or a campaign manager.

4. This one’s too easy, sorry.

Why is anyone bothering with meingoldcountry? Clinton has said, loudly and repeatedly, to get behind Obama. Trying to be more Catholic than the Pope is lunacy.

Or troublemaking. I’m surprised that no one has noticed the “tell” in this troll’s name—the German word it begins with. Amazing how many Republican trolls give themselves away in that fashion. They just can’t resist flaunting their fascism with some overt and visible mark.

I like the fact Obama has managed his campaign’s finances astoundingly well. Considering how much the economy sucks, this is a trait I want in our next POTUS.

I’m not terribly worried about him saying that his proposed timetable for withdrawing the troops could be altered once he talks to the actual commanders. A POTUS who is interested in the FACTS and can be flexible about how he handles things is a welcome change from the current “come back with new facts” approach to administration. So maybe the time table changes; maybe something different is done (I wouldn’t mind if we worked together with Kurdistan to help them keep their area safe)

Do I have that right?

Way up there now (Shit, meingoldcountry, give a girl a time to catch up on her Battlestar Galactica, wouldja?), but to clarify, my point, which meigoldcountry confirmed for me just a few posts after yours, is that it seems to be a tactic of the rightwing ratfuckers to come around concern-trolling leftist blogs, arguing that we shouldn’t be voting for Obama because he’s not the perfect leftist candidate.

Kind of ignoring the fact that pretty much 100% of leftists know this, know that no mainstream party candidate is likely to be far enough left for us in the current political climate, and have made our peace with that as best we can. 

But, yeah.  I’m with ya.

Yeah, sunsin, I noticed that tell right away, too. Pretty much a dead giveaway to the attempted ratfucking. It’s been a long time since I’ve been to California, but I’m pretty sure they don’t refer to the Gold Country in German.

They just can’t resist flaunting their fascism with some overt and visible mark.

I get you, but to be fair I don’t think we should default to thinking that anyone with a german-sounding word in their screenname is a fascist, aryan-nation type, republican, etc.  I mean what is this, WWI?  Do we have to start calling sauerkraut liberty cabbage, too?  Nazism was a longish time ago, and I don’t think it’s fair to automatically associate anything German with fascism. 

My screenname comes from a French novel.  Does that make me Vichy or part of the Resistance?

meiingold-
I don’t agree with your basic premise, but even if I did can you please tell me what your point is- Obama has positions similar to Hillary but he ttricked us by being a better politiician? I mean that seems to be what your saying, but the problem with that argumetn is that if it were true we’d be left with the following questiom: so what?! Seriously, if Obama and Clitnon are equal on the issues shouldn’t we choose the one who is actually an effective pol, I mean I know that sounds crazy, but stay with me here- Bill Clinton was a better pol than Gore or Kerry, hence while they may have been similar on the issues he was a 2 term president and they lost to a smirking man-child, the lesson issues are nice, ut they need someone who can sell them.

socraticsilence:

I don’t agree with your basic premise, but even if I did can you please tell me what your point is- Obama has positions similar to Hillary but he ttricked us by being a better politician?

I think that’s exactly it. Meingoldcountry is kinda like the kids I work with, who sometimes accuse me of cheating after I beat them in pool or dominoes or whatever.

I’m not cheating, I’m a better pool player than you.

It’s funny watching the lefties shriek with their support of Obama, while noticing that they can’t point out anything the dude has actually done except campaign, campaign, campaign since he has been in public office.  ‘Meingoldcountry’ makes good points, so the knee-jerk Obama ‘hope and change’ people criticize him.

Face it, people: Obama ain’t squat.  He’s not about hope or change, just his own insatiable ego.  He sat in a church for 20+ years and then decided to dump his pastor because it was politically expedient.  He’s playing the race card, but remember, he’s just as ‘white’ as he is ‘black’ and he’s a child of privilege.

Stupid dumb-shit liberal fucktards act like Obama’s the shit or something.

Aww, how cute ... you’re new at trolling, aren’t you, Maggotte?

Some stupid shit:

It’s funny watching the lefties shriek with their support of Obama, while noticing that they can’t point out anything the dude has actually done except campaign, campaign, campaign since he has been in public office. ‘Meingoldcountry’ makes good points, so the knee-jerk Obama ‘hope and change’ people criticize him.

Face it, people: Obama ain’t squat. He’s not about hope or change, just his own insatiable ego. He sat in a church for 20+ years and then decided to dump his pastor because it was politically expedient.  He’s playing the race card, but remember, he’s just as ‘white’ as he is ‘black’ and he’s a child of privilege.

Stupid dumb-shit liberal fucktards act like Obama’s the shit or something.

It’s funny watching people who clearly have any even remotely substantive criticisms of Obama pretend that they have any even remotely substantive criticisms of Obama.

Something is seriously wrong with you when you have enough shame to attempt to obfuscate your rather obvious terror at the thought of a black president with some transparently ridiculous bullshit you heard at TownHall, but not enough shame to just keep your mouth shut in the first place.

I know troll feeding is wrong, but I can’t let this pass without comment:

Logo-tattooed bands of Obama Youth using FISA to report on their parents and neighbors? I mean, this shit ain’t funny anymore.

So Obama Youth are “using FISA” to “report on” people?
What.
The.
Fuck?

FISA—that would be the “Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act”, by the way—regulates under what circumstances the GOVERNMENT can conduct ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE and provides a secure court to review requests for warrants.

How, exactly, would anyone “use FISA” to “report on” their neighbors?

It seems like Political Ratfucking, Inc. noticed that a lot of Obama supporters were upset about his stance on FISA, and updated the GOP Talking Point Generators to insert those four letters into any random argument, whether it makes any sense or not.

Oh, and for the “why support Obama” question, here’s a fun answer: “50 State Strategy”.

<blockquote>The amount of time he voted

Wow, wow, wow.

Give me ONE reason you support Obama. Anyone, please.

One good reason to support Obama is that the Republicans are so afraid of him that they go on to the Internet and pretend to be Democrats and post hundreds of comments on blogs in which they make it very obvious that they are fake, which is entertaining.

For example there is a McCain-lover with the Wagnerian name of “meingoldcountry” who pretends to be a Hillary-supporter on a blog called Pandagon. Everybody goes along with the ruse because they figure it keeps him/her/it busy.

And that’s just one reason I support Obama!

Something is seriously wrong with you when you have enough shame to attempt to obfuscate your rather obvious terror at the thought of a black president with some transparently ridiculous bullshit you heard at TownHall, but not enough shame to just keep your mouth shut in the first place.

On the contrary, something is seriously wrong with you when you have so little to say about your supposed candidate that you have to rely on stupid attempts at creating a straw man.  Obama hasn’t done shit.  He’s a pathetic egomaniac who doesn’t give a shit about America, only about Obama.

Obama’s a huckster whose ‘hope’ and ‘change’ are a scam.  It’s the emperor’s new clothes all over again.  Oops, there’s nothing there, but all the stupid libtards are oohing and aahing over how wonderful Obama is.  Dumb as a box of fucking rocks!

I think that’s exactly it. Meingoldcountry is kinda like the kids I work with, who sometimes accuse me of cheating after I beat them in pool or dominoes or whatever.

He’s even more like the German Olympic Team during the 1930s, who didn’t bother to train very much for their events because they were pre-ordained by God and all to be the best because they were Germans.

Then when Jesse Owens ran rings around their neiberlungs, they screamed “Cheater” because everybody knows that Black people aren’t really humans, but animals ...

HRC’s campaigners didn’t campaign successfully because they were assuming that she was preordained.  Now that she lost a close race to a Black man, they are acting like the German Olympic Team of the 1930s.

make that Nibelungens

A box of fucking rocks?

Wow, and here we all thought the Pet Rock craze was cool at one time.

I want to get me some of those fucking rocks ... they sound simply igneous!

Ooooh, Maggotte, are you going to dance for us too, or is your little red-faced troll-fest limited to calling us some nasty names and jumping up and down? 

As for your cute little strawmen, consider this:  I’ll go out on a limb and say that McCain generally doesn’t represent our views here.  HRC ran a shitty campaign, alienated many of us, and now it’s either McCain or Obama.  That’s it.  You can hold hands with meingoldcountry, refuse to read any of the material on this blog,  and turn everything you don’t like into some lame-assed conspiracy, but you’d only show that you’re even dumber than you sound ... but please, go right ahead.  Someday, with enough practice, you’ll make a halfway decent troll

Some stupid shit:

On the contrary, something is seriously wrong with you when you have so little to say about your supposed candidate that you have to rely on stupid attempts at creating a straw man.

What straw man? You’re clearly terrified of an Obama presidency, or you wouldn’t be investing so much vitriol into decrying the possibility and spending so much time parroting the right-wing noise machine’s desperate, backbiting character assassination of a candidate they’re all pretty well convinced they can’t beat. Then when I and others call you on it, you pretend that we’re somehow obligated to satisfy your demands for information we know you’re almost certainly just going to ignore, anyway, and that it’s consequently our fault that you don’t have the slightest clue what the fuck you’re talking about.

Obama hasn’t done shit.

“I don’t know what Obama has done” != “Obama hasn’t done shit”

HTH.

And no, I’m not going to indulge your petulant, self-indulgent laziness by educating you on what Obama has done with his career, and I don’t think anyone else here should, either. Mostly because I don’t think you actually care, since that would impede your ability to use Obama as a cipher for all your political anxieties.

He’s a pathetic egomaniac who doesn’t give a shit about America, only about Obama.

Which is funny, since I’m starting to get the rather strong impression that you’re a pathetic egomaniac who doesn’t give a shit about Obama, but only about yourself. You gave the game away from the get-go by using a childish misspelling of Amanda’s name as your handle. That’s a dead giveaway that you have precisely zero interest in honest discourse.

Obama’s a huckster whose ‘hope’ and ‘change’ are a scam. It’s the emperor’s new clothes all over again. Oops, there’s nothing there, but all the stupid libtards are oohing and aahing over how wonderful Obama is. Dumb as a box of fucking rocks!

repetition != substantiation

HTH.

The bitter irony of this whole exchange, of course, is that most of us really do have substantive criticisms of Obama and are perfectly capable of discussing them honestly both here and elsewhere, but you don’t seem to be able to come up with even one. Can you spell “projection”?

Man, it’s weird how the Fourth of July released the wingnuts and the trolls.  Was there some kinda mental-hospital amnesty in the last couple days?

I can’t figure out what meingoldwhatever thinks s/he is accomplishing here.

When people actually vote they tend to not vote for him.

Oh really?  Then you’ve got nothing to worry about, mein freund.

Logo-tattooed bands of Obama Youth using FISA to report on their parents and neighbors? I mean, this shit ain’t funny anymore.

Yeah, well it wasn’t funny when Bush gutted habeas corpus in the first place, but it might be kinda amusing to see all of Cheney’s evil tricks used to rendition the reich.

Troll’s not even up-to-date with the talking points.  It’s not “Obama’s never done anything” today.  Today it’s “Obama’s a flip-flopper worse than Kerry (pay no attention to McCain spinning behind the curtain).” 

We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.

“make that Nibelungens”

Miss Kate, “-gen” is already plural.

I’m pretty sure that meingoldcountry and Amanda Maggote are sock puppets or working for the same pro trolling agency. Meingoldcountry is the ‘good cop’, Maggote is the true persona. You’ll notice the latter took up when the former got bored/couldn’t hold back any more/changed shifts.

I love when sock puppets start appearing to “support” the original poster and they don’t even bother to try and sound like a different person.

Also, hint to future Republican trolls:  liberals never use the word “libtards” to refer to one another, so using it is a dead giveaway that you’re not a lefty.  The RNC is going to dock your paycheck for that tell.

Now that she lost a close race to a Black man, they are acting like the German Olympic Team of the 1930s

They’re acting worse. Luz Long, who lost to Jesse Owens after giving him advice on how to compete better, became his friend. Owens later remarked, “It took a lot of courage for him to befriend me in front of Hitler… You can melt down all the medals and cups I have and they wouldn’t be a plating on the twenty-four karat friendship that I felt for Lutz Long at that moment.” (see Luz Long in Wikipedia)

Luz Long, who lost to Jesse Owens after giving him advice on how to compete better, became his friend.

It also reminds me that Max Schmeling and Joe Louis became close friends after their two bouts.  When sports get on my nerves sometimes, I remind myself that athletes are usually much less annoying than their fans (like the American Bundists who held up racist signs while rooting for Schmeling over Louis).

Wow, I go away for a while and look what happens.

Am I supposed to have a German word in my screen name? You bots will go to any lengths to blame some good ole’ Democrat dissension on a conspiracy theory.

By the way I’m female, but I suppose it’s a backhanded compliment to think I’m male. I’m a Democrat and I’m a liberal, the old fashioned kind. Not the left wing version of the neo-cons: progressives.

Face it people, your candidate sucks rocks. A pandering empty suit with plagiarized platitudes and an ego bordering on sociopathy.  Yeah, what’s not to like.

Yours truly, Me In Gold Country

Oh, and I’m not alone.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/04/clinton.poll/index.html

By the way Schneider is wrong. We won’t get over it.

We won’t get over it.

Yes you will. When you’ve learned to grow up and act like an adult, not a spoiled brat. What, just because you think you fell in love with a well-funded front-runner establishment candidate you thought you were entitled to win?

A lot of hostility towards Obama comes from the fact that Republicans are upset that Democrats have a candidate they actually like, so the only alternative is to muddy the waters by claiming that liking a candidate is bad.

Mnemsyne: I don’t think the lame-worldplay-onAmanda’s-name troll ever pretended to be a lefty.

good ole’ Democrat dissension

You’re not even a very good fake, mein Fooler.

No we won’t, Tyro. But keep telling yourself that. And if you read the article from CNN your “we” is only half the party. The other half wants a real candidate.

Obama’s proving himself to be everything we feared. Wake up kids, you’re being effed and it’s not by rats.

Meingoldcountry, please. So far you haven’t managed to come up with a single substantive attack on Obama despite a 27-post threadjack. At this point, I can only quote your third post back to you. At best, you’re an ineffectual loser who can’t bring yourself to accept a black man as your candidate. If that’s the case, we can do without you. (Yes, this is overly insulting. So was your third post, which I’ve quoted with one replacement. If you can’t handle your own words, perhaps you might consider not leading off with insults.)

Far, far more likely, you’re a Republican operative who thinks you’re going to find support on this blog, because (a) you’re an idiot, and (b) this is a feminist blog, and you assume—insanely—that Democratic women can be easily persuaded to vote for McCain this year because of Clinton’s close loss. If that’s the case, and if you’re being paid by the word, then I heartily suggest that you make another hundred posts or so. I have zero problems with McCain’s campaign money lining your pocket instead of doing something more productive.

Sagesource, mnemosyne, I stand corrected - but I think you guys just substantially improved the metaphor all the same.

I didn’t dislike Hillary apriori, but I was put off by the people in her machine, and further alienated by her failue to vet those who would speak in her stead - the Ferraros, the Maxine Racists, etc.  The candidates can get along fine, like Owens and Louis and their German competitors, but the fans and the political structure we can do without.

Since you’re still here, me in gold country, could you eplain to me

a) what qualifications, achievements and substance Clinton has that Obama hasn’t;

b) why the fact that Obama didn’t get a majority of all delegates just with his pledged delegates, and needed the help of SDs, is somehow damming, but the fact that Clinton didn’t get a majority of all delegates just with his pledged delegates, and would need the help of SDs, is not;

c) what evidence you have that the SDs who support Obama are “bought and sold”;

d) why Democrats should support someone who has send her husband on Rush Limbaugh’s show to trash-talk one of the two leading Democratic candidates at the time;

e) why someone who’s just an empty suit with a big ego would have cared about things like usaspending.gov, keeping track of nukes, or requiring police to videotape interrogations in capital offense cases;

f) why it would be a good idea for any party to nominate someone who has spend more than a decade being hated passionately by half the country and

g) wether you would have supported a candidate in 1958 who would have claimed that, back in 1946, he was in London and had to spend a night in an air shelter because of German air raids?

Back to the original topic of the post, given that so many people seem to be horrified by Obama campaign events, what, exactly, is going on there that doesn’t happen at the campaign events of major party candidates in every campaign above the local level in the USA as well? So there’s usually a noisy crowd of supporters who yell the candidate’s name, chant slogans, and hold up signs with the candidate’s name and various slogans. When, exactly, did it become *news* that noisy crowds of supporters at US capaign events yell the candidate’s name, chant slogans, and hold up signs with the candidate’s name and various slogans? While we’re at that, are there any youtube clips of campaign events for main candidates featuring the candidate and a lot of supporters where that *doesn’t* happen in some form or another?

Some stupid shit:

Obama’s proving himself to be everything we feared.

Yes, we already know you’re afraid of black people.

meingoldhairedblueeyedcountry:

Wow, I go away for a while and look what happens.

The strange stench disappears.

You guys are funny, I’ll give you that. Batting 1000, and wrong. No wonder you’re supporting Obama.

I’m Spanish (european), Black Irish, French and a little California Indigenous native. I was born in California and have been a liberal Democrat my whole life. But I don’t like Obama so I’m an Aryan Republican racist.  Gee, I wonder why I have a negative view of his campaign and his followers?

OK, here goes:

Hillary Clinton has spent her life fighting for those that can’t fight for themselves; children and their beleaguered mothers mostly. She tried to give us universal heath care years ago at the risk, and cost some say, of political suicide.

She’s a wonk. She knows her shit flat and can articulate her platform in a way that educates and inspires. She kicked ass in the debates, even though everyone including the moderators, ganged up on her. She’s a pragmatic politician, who can and would do what she promises.

Most of all, she gets it. She gets that public service is not about self-aggrandizement but making a difference in the lives of the people she serves. That’s probably because she’s a woman. Simply, she speaks to me.

Obama.

Well from what I’ve read. his political career in Chicago consisted of removing the competition from the ballot, forsaking his poor AA constituency in favor of the likes of slum lord Tony Rezko, and getting his wife on major corporate boards.

He judiciously stayed away from any of the tough issues, voting present whenever possible. He rode this country’s increasing tendency to blur celebrity pop culture with reality. He was approached by the king makers that wanted just his brand of celebrity, a charismatic blank canvass, to seduce the oh so vulnerable Y generation.

I remember one moment in a debate when he actually put together an original well formed idea. I said to myself, ok if that’s the real Obama, I could live with that. It never happened again. And now, he just doesn’t do debates.

So given that he’s throwing you under the bus along with granny, he’s going to tell you that you have no where else to go. I mean what are you going to do, vote for McCain?

What’s the deal breaker here guys? For you misogynists out there, it doesn’t even have to be Hillary. It can be Edwards, Biden, anyone who has some chance of exercising their own friggin judgement for our sake.

This country is in the shitter right now. Do you really want the political equivalent of Britney Spears leading it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/26/barackobama.uselections2008

Oopps, forgot my lead in for the link above.

Here’s someone that’s telling you it’s ok that you’re under the bus. It’s all about winning.

Gee, what happened to hope/change?

http://tinyurl.com/dishonest-or-disorganized

You decide.

She gets that public service is not about self-aggrandizement but making a difference in the lives of the people she serves. That’s probably because she’s a woman.

Because oestrogen gives you a magical ability to care about people other than yourself? That sure explains Margaret Thatcher. And Mahatma Ghandi.

She gets that public service is not about self-aggrandizement but making a difference in the lives of the people she serves. That’s probably because she’s a woman.

Imelda Marcos and Eva Peron were also women.

Admittedly, blowing the country’s budget on shoes rather than stupid wars could be seen as a step forward, but still…

<blockquote>She gets that public service is not about self-aggrandizement but making a difference in the lives of the people she serves. That’s probably because she’s a woman.<blockquote>

You know, I find this fascinating.  Often, when a right-winger tries to pass as a left-winger for some reason, they generally give themselves away because they can’t keep their real feelings from leaking out.  Other times, though, they give themselves away by acting like their personal stereotype of lefties would, instead of how we actually do.  Admittedly, we’re a diverse lot, but I think you’ll find that it’s not feminists who argue that women are essentially better than men.  Usually, it’s someone who wants to argue that men can’t stop themselves from raping if a woman fails in her responsibility to not tempt them that says that.

Hillary Clinton has spent her life fighting for those that can’t fight for themselves; children and their beleaguered mothers mostly.

Anyone care to start listing the starving and downtrodden and helpless corporations she has magnanimously pledged her services to assist in the past?

So this is about Hillary hate. I knew it. I think you’re all neo-cons with a bean still up your ass about the Clintons beating you at your own game. And you’re trying to push another puppet that has no business running for president down our throats because this is exactly what I heard in 2000 and 2004.

You people are so effing small minded and self satisfied, you have to be right wingers. And to think I was wasting my time trying to talk to you like you were Democrats.

Attention all you real liberal minded people here. The Republicans are trolling this site like mad. Except bicky, he’s just confused.

The Republicans are trolling this site like mad.

We already noticed.

And to think I was wasting my time trying to talk to you like you were Democrats.

Let’s see, here. One of your very first posts:

But then that’s probably the whole point huh. If you weren’t ineffectual losers and would accept a woman for president, you wouldn’t be stuck with his highness.

Just to be clear—that was an example of “talking to us like we were Democrats?” That’s your idea of persuasive argument? Do you save substantive arguments for Republicans, and reserve cheap substance–free insults for Democrats? If that’s so, would you mind speaking to us as though we were Republicans?

Look, me in gold country, if you had substantial points to make, you wouldn’t keep ignoring the questions people ask you. Such as MAJeff’s “not confused, just waiting for you to back up your comment that McCain is a moderate who won’t do any damage.  And waiting. and waiting.” Or most of the questions I asked you.

As for your comparision of Clinton’s and Obama’s record- ok, it’s great that Clinton spend her life fighting for the downtrodden, but what actual achievements can she show for it? If someone a few years before the standard retirement age spent her life fighting for the downtrodden without achieving anything, I don’t see what’s so impressive about it.

“She’s a wonk.”

Wich is one of the main reasons why it would have been a very stupid idea to nominate her, and why the Democrats dodged a bullett by avoiding that. When was the last time a pure, unadultered wonk won a presidential election?

“Obama.

Well from what I’ve read. his political career in Chicago consisted of removing the competition from the ballot, forsaking his poor AA constituency in favor of the likes of slum lord Tony Rezko, and getting his wife on major corporate boards.”

If you mainly read hit pieces on people, of course you’ll end up with pretty unimpressive pictures of them. As that song from one of the more popular bands of Clinton’s generation puts it, “He#S as blind as he can be, sees just what he wants to see”. I’ve given you some examples of other things he’s been involved with before. By the way, what is he supposed to have done for Rezko?

“He rode this country’s increasing tendency to blur celebrity pop culture with reality. He was approached by the king makers that wanted just his brand of celebrity, a charismatic blank canvass, to seduce the oh so vulnerable Y generation.”

That’s the kind accusation that’s repeated again and again, including in this thread, without ever being backed up. How many charismatic blank canvasses graduate from the Ivy League with summa cum laude reviews and then go on to become community organisers? How many charismatic blank canvasses write these navel gazing “I always tried to find out who I am” books that are so popular among the literati these days? I don’t really like those books myself, mind you, but truly shallow people are to centered on materialism to care about that stuff.

If he was approached by the king makers, how come Hillary started the campaign with an enormous lead in superdelegates?

“So given that he’s throwing you under the bus along with granny”

I other words, after you’ve spend an entire thread accusing other people of being shallow, you demonstrate your own inability to understand complex, subtle points that acknowledge the existence of shades of grey in the universe. Way to go.

“I remember one moment in a debate when he actually put together an original well formed idea. I said to myself, ok if that’s the real Obama, I could live with that. It never happened again. And now, he just doesn’t do debates.”

What’s your point here- that he used to have the ability to put together original well formed ideas until that debate, but suddenly lost it afterwards?

1st time poster here….just had to say that these ‘Hillary supporters’ are hilarious.  You know who else wants to see war break out in Denver?  The Republicans.  Amazing Coincidence!

The RNC really should rethink their Indian outsourcing strategy for trolling liberal sites.  Sure, they’ve saved a few bucks and there aren’t many volunteer rubes left to parrot their talking points, but they really need more lines of argument than pretending to be Clinton Democrats who can’t really explain why we should pick Hillary over Barack.  McCain is going to have to increase the bonus points paid to these people if he wants to make headway on the innertubes.  Still, it is entertaining watching these people pretend to be Democratswhen we all know otherwise.

me in gold country: i would say it is a supreme waste of time to try to talk to these people and visit this blog at all. It’s a blog—studies show that people choose media that reflects their views, so obviously everyone who comes to this unanimously Obama-supporting, Hillary-hating site is coming here to reaffirm their pro-Obama, Hillary-hating views. You have a lot of passion and I say, don’t waste it on these ultra-partisan people, their minds are closed. I would suggest getting active, which you probably already are, but just in case you’re not, go to:

http://hillaryclintonnews.blogspot.com/-you can sign up for their email alerts, which give you news updates and actions you can take part in

http://www.18millionvoices.blogspot.com/—there are groups for each state that will be acting around the country at the same time as people will be in Denver

On Facebook- the PUMA facebook group headed by Amy Goldman and Hillary Clinton-One Million Strong facebook group, which I believe was started by Will Bower. They also send you emails if you join to let you know news and what you can do as a PUMA to support Hillary.

I’ve joined the meetup group for 18 million voices in my state and will be going to Denver in late July and might help out with the Denver group while I am there. Another thing I am thinking about doing is writing to the superdelegates that I’m not voting for Obama and Hillary is the best candidate for us. There are sample letters on some of the sites associated with the Pumas for such a letter.

I have tried to talk to other Dems on these sorts of very pro-Obama sites before. Studies show that liberals tend not to pick the media/websites that reflect their views as much as Republicans do, so that might explain my self-defeating recent habit of visiting sites that are so close-mindedly in favor of Obama. I guess I always had a view that liberals are more open-minded than Republicans but I have found that isn’t true. The hatred of Hillary (at the root of which is a deep-seated but never to be admitted misogyny) is so virulent that there is no point is talking to these people. So, I suggest you do as I have done and avoid visiting sites that worship Obama, and just try to do whatever you can with what time and resources you have to make Hillary our nominee by the time the convention rolls around. That’s what I’m doing and I think it’s the most productive and sane way to go about the next few months.

Peace.

me in gold country—i also have heard of http://savagepolitics.com/  as a good alternative to get your political news/updates from. haven’t visited much yet, but have heard it’s good. i hope my posting the link won’t draw a bunch of crazies from this site over there though. peace.

The true sign of the troll is threadjacking.  It is too bad it ruined this one.

actually, TheDeadlyShoe, i quite enjoyed the thread.

i was feeling somewhat depressed after the fisa vote today and learning that nancy pelosi is working the back room to quash the judiciary committee contempt proceedings against rove (see afterdowningstreet.org), although it was nice seeing senator kennedy come into the senate chamber, despite his current medical condition, to vote on the medicare bill.  obama’s participation in the fisa bill passing was enormously disappointing.

but reading this thread has changed my outlook.  i want to thank all who participated here, including especially, oddly enough, the trolls, without whom this conversation would not have been possible.  reading this thread has given a boost to my confidence that there is indeed hope of better things to come for all of us.

really, thanks, all of you.
.