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Next entry: Game with bloggers this Sunday Previous entry: Mitch McConnell: stimulus will result in the ‘Europeanization of America’

Long live the Post Office!

I must vociferously protest Matt’s post about the post office.  That he even wrote it shows how powerful repetition of talking points is—-the libertarian worship of Fed Ex and dismissing of the post office has been uncritically repeated so often it starts to make sense.  But take a breath and think about how foolish libertarian philosophy is.  It’s about creating a government so localized that the best living example of it is the fundamentalist, polygamist Mormons whose child rape compounds keep getting raided by the real government they refuse to recognize. In other words, we’re not talking theories that have been thought out as thoroughly as they should be. 

Matt’s post starts off innocuously enough by entertaining the idea that reducing mail service from 6 days a week to 5 days a week might modernize the post office a bit and save money.  If it would mean that I can use an entire book of stamps before the rate changes, I’d accept it, though I do like myself some Saturday delivery.  What can I say?  I like mail.  It’s probably a leftover fetish from my ill-spent youth in a small town in West Texas where we didn’t have cable, our satellite dish was hard to operate and commandeered by my stepfather, we only had one crappy movie theater, and there was no music store to speak of, much less a decent bookstore.  As such, catalogs and Entertainment Weekly (as well as Vogue, GQ, Sassy, etc.) were exciting forms of entertainment, and I would bicycle to the post office regularly to pick up the mail because I really wanted a new magazine to read.  If only we had the internet then.

But it does highlight the value of the post office that pretty much 100% of all magazines use it for distribution.  Which means that despite some nay-saying libertarian nonsense, the post office clearly is the best financial choice for many businesses.  Despite the obviousness of this, Matt bites off some half-baked libertarian pseudo-theorizing.

When our country was founded, timely delivery of the mail was a critical piece of infrastructure and not something the private sector was ready to do. Modern conditions have led to the emergence of viable private sector parcel delivery firms, and have also led to a sharp decline in dependence on parcel delivery as a critical mode of communications. There’s the phone, fax, e-mail, etc along with UPS, DHL, FedEx, and the US Postal Service. The USPS is a useful entity in that mix, but modern-day conditions mean that postal policies don’t really matter in the way they once did.


Maybe the USPS has lost some business to these private entities, but unless you’re working in a business that can afford to have delivery and pick-up service from UPS or FedEx, the USPS still matters as much as it always did.  And that’s true for most of us.  After all, it might be more convenient if you work at a business to have the UPS guy come and pick it up for you, but if you’re a customer at home waiting for the package, finding out that they sent it UPS is usually a moment of doubt and pain. When I had an office job, the two primary uses for my truck were a) to visit my boyfriend and b) to drive out to buttfuck nowhere to pick up packages that UPS wouldn’t deliver because I wasn’t home.  Oh, they’d give you 3 tries to be at home on a weekday at 2PM, which just made me even more irate, because it meant that they were wasting time and money and the UPS guy’s day to make a pointless effort at trying to deliver an undeliverable package.  FedEx was not much better and just as far out in the middle of nowhere.

In contrast, if the post office couldn’t deliver a package because I wasn’t home, instead of sticking something on my door that had a strong chance of blowing away and requiring me to drive 20 minutes in each direction to get my package, they would put a slip in my post office box and I could walk down to the post office and pick up my package.  Which inclines me to point out that even if they do reduce to 5 day delivery, they absolutely must keep branches open on Saturday.  Some people have full time jobs, you know.

I can safely say that one reason I was able to sell my car and reduce ours to a one car household is because I work at home and won’t miss the UPS guy.  Because outside of that sticky problem, I live in an extremely walkable part of town.  Ironically, Matt has a post a few up from this one where he talks about what it’ll take to make suburbs more walkable.  The post office is still a critical part of the carless lifestyle.  Which is why this statement annoys me:

Something I wonder about that’s perhaps more interesting is whether there isn’t a case for trying to privatize the Postal Service by selling it off to private investors. Presumably you wouldn’t want to do that in the middle of a financial panic, because you’d get low bids. But in general, though I understand why the USPS was established as a public agency in the past, it’s not obvious to me that if it didn’t exist today we’d be clamoring to create it.

I’m glad our Founding Fathers were such socialists myself, because we probably wouldn’t be clamoring to create it, and my life would be much harder than it is now.  Because even though I’m at home to receive packages, I don’t have a viable way to send packages without the post office.  And I can just imagine how impossible Netflix would be without the post office.  Privatizing the USPS and putting profit before customer service as a motivator is the worst idea I’ve ever heard.  Imagine how quickly all the mailboxes on the street would disappear.  Imagine losing your local post office that you can walk to disappearing in a cost-cutting move, and taking your ability to mail something quickly, painlessly and cheaply with it.  Cost-cutting for the private USPS would be done on the customer’s backs—-you’d be the one to bear the costs of transportation to the central post office, the only one left once they’d cut costs.  Goodbye slapping a stamp on your rent check and dropping it in the mailbox.  Goodbye being able to use a postal scale to figure out if your parcel is light enough to be slipped into a mailbox.  Privatizing a service means creating an adversarial relationship between the customer and the business, each of who are trying to maximize what they get out of the other just short of breaking the relationship completely.  But public entities have a much more generous attitude towards the customer, who is the only reason they exist.  (Profit is the only reason businesses exist, in comparison.) 

Libertarians hate the USPS because its existence proves that the government can easily outperform the private sector in some areas if it’s given full permission to do so, and isn’t cobbled by a bunch of obstacles thrown up by Republicans who are trying to force it to fail.  All the more reason to support it, I’d say.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 12:18 PM • (82) Comments

I recently had to send an express parcel to an extremely rural area of Maine.

UPS didn’t go there.  Fed Ex didn’t go there.  USPS?  No problem - next day, to a PO Box no less.

Matt doesn’t understand that much of red state, rural America has no other option than the Post Office.  That’s because he is a spoiled city slicker who can’t imagine that mail delivery to much of the land mass we call the United States is too expensive to support private enterprise.

Washington State learned this lesson brutal and hard when they decided to privatize everything.  A lot of firms refused to rebid on their contracts to haul garbage and provide other services in rural areas because they just couldn’t do it profitably (and learned that the first time around).  While it worked in the cities, the sticks were left high and dry and had to reinvest in community infrastructure at considerable cost.

Comment #1: Ms Kate  on  02/11  at  12:26 PM

I love USPS and hate hate hate UPS and FedEx and DHL or whatever the hell they’re called. They are SO much less reliable than the post office.  I’ve never had a problem either receiving or mailing via USPS, and I have had SO many problems with UPS and DHL in particular. Ugh. I DO NOT WANT another government agency that does a better job to be privatized.  How well has that worked out with schools? Prisons?  Granted, this is somewhat lower stakes than those, but FORTHALOVEAGOD people.  Just stop with this privatization nonsense.

Comment #2: Betsy  on  02/11  at  12:29 PM

But public entities have a much more generous attitude towards the customer, who is the only reason they exist.

You obviously don’t live in MA, where everybody is either serving themselves or kissing ass on their boss, and who the hell are you to actually want something?

Comment #3: Ms Kate  on  02/11  at  12:33 PM

If you’ve ever really lived in a foreign country, you would never speak disrespectfully of the USPS. It’s fantastic: it has much better service and is less than half the price of the postal service in most European countries. And if you’ve ever lived in developing countries, you’ll bless the USPS whenever you walk in, as the employees are friendly and helpful instead of despotic.

And remember, the only people dumber than libertarians are ravers.

Comment #4: felagund  on  02/11  at  12:34 PM

The major problem facing the post office is the extremely high volume of commercial advertising (junk mail) which the private firms won’t touch and which the post office is required to deliver.  Bulk mailing rates do not really cover the costs of this and it would be (politically at least) difficult for them to separate the commercial (which is the primary problem here) from the non-profit (who cannot generally afford a price hike).  The post office also has to deliver (at the same rate) in areas that private services either do not deliver to or charge extra for.  You figure the cost of delivering mail to the homes of people living 20 miles from the the nearest town in rural eastern Montana (where there are more prairie dogs than people).

Comment #5: DrDick  on  02/11  at  12:36 PM

As such, catalogs and Entertainment Weekly (as well as Vogue, GQ, Sassy, etc.) were exciting forms of entertainment, and I would bicycle to the post office regularly to pick up the mail because I really wanted a new magazine to read.

Slightly OT, but YES. 

In hindsight, I tend to remember my teenaged self as being desperately uncool and weirdly obsessed with mainstream entertainment media like network TV, magazines, pop radio, and other things we all now consider thoroughly lame. 

And then I remember that this was all we had out in the boondocks.  In fact, I was considered a little bit too cool for school because I read things like Entertainment Weekly and Sassy and knew what all the cool movies and bands were about.

Comment #6: The Opoponax  on  02/11  at  12:38 PM

</blockquote>Matt doesn’t understand that much of red state, rural America has no other option than the Post Office.</blockquote>Careful with that line of thought. If it means fucking over the red states, abolishing the USPS might suddenly become attractive to a lot of liberals. (Yes, I’m kidding.)

Comment #7: Steve LaBonne  on  02/11  at  12:41 PM

I run a tiny business from my home, and the USPS has the lowest shipping rates around. Using any other service would double the cost of what I sell, and I would then sell nothing. With the USPS, I tack on a buck or two, and can eat the rest of the (minimal) cost if need be. And they ship to other countries for a song. And did I mention reliable? And go anywhere?

Privatization my ass!

Comment #8: means are the ends  on  02/11  at  12:43 PM

Keep in mind the post office used to deliver on Sundays. I would love the mail to come seven days a week because I order stuff through the mail and I detest having to wait for my stuff to come to me.

Comment #9: tootiredoftheright  on  02/11  at  12:43 PM

It seems this guy has completely forgotten about regular mail.  I rarely send packages, but I often send letter-sized mail.  Does FedEx or UPS even deliver regular mail?  If they do, it’s probably much more expensive than USPS.  And I would have to go to a FedEx or UPS office to mail it, instead of just dropping in my mailbox.  They would deliver it but not pick it up.  I prefer to pay my bills via credit card or automatic bank debit, but some of my utilities just don’t accept those methods.  The simple task of dropping my bill in my mailbox would become a huge burden and probably more expensive.

Comment #10: bananacat  on  02/11  at  12:47 PM

I run a tiny business from my home, and the USPS has the lowest shipping rates around. Using any other service would double the cost of what I sell, and I would then sell nothing. With the USPS, I tack on a buck or two, and can eat the rest of the (minimal) cost if need be. And they ship to other countries for a song. And did I mention reliable? And go anywhere?

Privatization my ass!

Even those of us outside the US, who do business with the US, would be appalled.  In at least one instance I ordered software from a company in Utah and, of course, FedEx does not, in fact, deliver to remote communities above the Arctic Circle despite their propaganda.  It took a while but I finally managed to convince them to get one of the secretaries to just drop of the damn box at the local post office, and that it would, in fact, reach me.

Comment #11: KeithM  on  02/11  at  12:51 PM

Absolutely. Tom Tomorrow pointed out a few weeks back that some libertarian blowhard was on a talking heads program extolling the virtues of some dude who started Stamps.com as an example of how the private sector can find a market for something the government does: in this case, selling stamps. Except there’s a markup and a delivery fee. And this guy is selling a product, not a service, and he isn’t guaranteeing the delivery of a letter to any location in the U.S. for a low flat rate. And honestly, I feel that the delivery of letters and parcels by the post office has improved dramatically over the last decade or so. Yes, FedEx and UPS did give the Post Office competition and the Post Office improved its service because of it, which also means that FedEx and UPS have to keep on their toes.

When I lived in the city, I specifically bought a Post Office Box and used that for all of my online orders because I didn’t have a car and if UPS or FedEx delivered something to my apartment when I was at work (ie, any delivery they performed), and being in a city they wouldn’t drop it off at the door, I couldn’t drive out to bumblefuck airport refueling way to go pick up my package, so if they couldn’t deliver to a PO Box, I wasn’t interested in the product. It’s amazing how many retailers will knuckle down and do the USPS when you say “deliver it to a post office box.”

Even now, living outside of the city and my work situation being such that I can accept deliveries at home, I insisted on living within walking distance of the post office (among other things). Even if there were places downtown that I could drop off a UPS parcel or a fedex envelope and would process that for me, the markup for this service at these establishments (traditionally) is incredible and there’s no fucking way I would be able to afford sending friends bags of homemade granola or a mix CD if I’m paying $15+ per delivery.

Comment #12: Mighty Ponygirl  on  02/11  at  12:57 PM

My only relationship with my physical mailbox is to dump it out once a week and sort through the huge pile of crap on the off chance that someone actually sent me something important. 95% of it goes straight into the trash… er, i mean, recycle bin. After subtracting junk mail, dead tree dinosaur magazines (which are mostly glossy fashion ads), and bills I pay online anyway, there’s maybe 1 item per week that actually needed mail delivery.

Maybe rural areas should pay the true cost of services. Subsidizing suburbs and exurbs is part of the problem.

Comment #13: woolie  on  02/11  at  12:58 PM

The main reason ‘privatization’ of the USPS won’t be universally laughed off the table, even by people who depend on it (especially in ‘red states’):

The USPS hires thousands of negroes and pays them a dependable living wage.  To hell with all its benefits and positives; that there is reason enough to abolish it.

Comment #14: Sam Holloway  on  02/11  at  12:58 PM

I’ve got to join the pile-on:  this really is one of the stupidest ideas I’ve ever heard.  Yes, if you have an overnight package, you’re probably better off with one of the commercial services because their tracking systems are better than the USPS.  But for anything other than overnight (and possibly 2-day), the USPS is much cheaper and more reliable.  Priority Mail will get a package just about anywhere in the US within three days, and that’s traveling coast to coast.

The only possible reason to privatize the Post Office is to hand free money to a campaign contributor, but that’s not exactly acting in the public interest.

Comment #15: Mnemosyne  on  02/11  at  01:00 PM

I love the post office.  The end.  And they DO do the things that UPS et all do that make us think UPS is useful—for example, if you have a big package to mail, you can pay postage online (it’s cheaper there anyway, but you can only ship priority or better that way) and then schedule a pickup, and the postal carrier will come get it.  Voila.

And for mailing little things, they can’t be beat.  It would be absurd to mail Christmas cards UPS or Fed Ex.  And when I but a book on half.com, I can opt for media mail, which is pretty cheap, cause I don’t care if it takes a week or two to get to me.

Comment #16: rowmyboat  on  02/11  at  01:00 PM

Also, for people who pay bills and stuff with money orders, being able to get the money order and then mail it from the same place is nice.

Comment #17: rowmyboat  on  02/11  at  01:01 PM

I can’t count the number of times I’ve received crushed or mutilated packages from UPS or FedEx. And I really can’t think of a single time I’ve gotten a banged-up package from the Postal Service. Delivery is a lot more reliable, too. Most delivery companies just leave pacakages on doorsteps; if they get stolen, too bad.

And the Post Office is a lot less expensive. I had to return a defective video card recently, and the company asked that I use UPS—it cost me nine bucks to send a package that the Post Office would have sent for $3-4.

I just don’t understand why people don’t like the Post Office.

Comment #18: Scott  on  02/11  at  01:02 PM

I was just thinking about writing to my newspaper about this, since they ran an editorial today praising the switch. It’s a bad idea.

I have direct experience with UPS’s 5 day BS and it sucks. Basically it goes like this.

I like buying online and the place I buy from most is BestBuy.com. Back in the day, they sent stuff via USPS and all was good.

Then they switched to this dambass system (I forget it’s name) where they send it to your local post office via UPS and the post office delivers it the rest of the way.

First and foremost, there has been a distinct increase in how long it takes to get my stuff since this began. But the real issue starts the first (and last) time I tried to use two-day shipping under this system.

I made the order Wednesday night, paying extra for two-day shipping. The order wasn’t processed until Thursday and the package arrived at UPS on Friday. UPS promptly shut down for the weekend.

On Monday my package was sent out and arrived the following Wednesday. A full week after paying extra for two day shipping!

This never would have happened with USPS two-day shipping. Hell, USPS’s standard shipping would have been faster.


More than trying to cut costs by adopting their competitor’s bad policies, the USPS should be launching a PR campaign to highlight the fact that their service in superior.

Comment #19: Ruby  on  02/11  at  01:04 PM

I can only imagine that anyone who thinks the USPS ought to be privatized is someone who has never actually used the USPS for anything at all. As others have said, it’s light-years better than any of the private parcel-delivery service in terms of speed, cost, options, and customer service. I sent a letter to middle-of-fucking-nowhere Russia a few years ago (long story, don’t ask). Cost me 55 cents. FedEx? I just ran a rate quote on their website, and they quoted me a little over $100 to send an economy 2-ounce letter.

Right now, I’m waiting on FedEx to deliver a replacement memory stick for my laptop. I missed the delivery yesterday because they came while I was in the shower. And of course, they have no access to my mailbox and won’t drop deliver anything. So I have to sit here today at the beck and call of the delivery guy, who will show up at a completely random time between now and 8pm. And if the driver doesn’t ring my doorbell, I’m going to have to drive to the fucking depot to pick it up myself, because I can’t hear knocks from my office.

Comment #20: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/11  at  01:06 PM

I can understand the hate on USPS - the post office I live near is a perfect storm of incompetence, surliness, and hair-rending frustration. Every time I have been in there, every single fucking time, the line has been at least six people long, there is only one employee at the front (who manages to combine an air of idiocy, arrogant, and sneer in a breathtaking combination) and the second employee lllllllaaaaaazzzzzziiillllllyyyyy strolls to the front to accept your “I need to pick up this package because you assholes refused to leave it in my mailbox even though it would have easily fit” slip.

Said employee will then disappear into the back for upwards of a half hour at a time, where you can hear them THROWING the packages around. Several times, they’ve come back to lazily announce that they “can’t find it” and could I try again tomorrow?

There’s other times where the local office would CRAM my bendable packages (books) into my apartment mailbox and I had several books damaged permanently by this.

Assholes.

So, yeah, I can understand the USPS hate - it seems to depend where you live. And I’ve definitely grumbled the “if this were a business, they’d be worried I’d take my money elsewhere” grumble once or twice. But I’d STILL rather have the system we have today than go to privatization - *shudders*.

Comment #21: Essie Elephant  on  02/11  at  01:07 PM

Does FedEx or UPS even deliver regular mail?

Yes, but it’s exponentially more expensive than just sticking a stamp on it and dropping it in the mail.  Not to mention that it’s much more of a hassle unless you work in an office that has a lot of outgoing FedEx/UPS stuff and schedules a daily in-office pickup. 

FedEx and UPS are great for businesses shipping stuff to other businesses, and sometimes pretty good for businesses shipping to private individuals, or private individuals shipping to businesses.  And it can be kinda-sorta ok for private individuals shipping things to each other.  But for non-B2B mail (especially garden-variety letter style mail rather than packages), USPS is definitely better.  Even if you live in an urban area and cost is no object.

Comment #22: The Opoponax  on  02/11  at  01:08 PM

I sell books online, and my little business could not exist without the post office. Even with the recent price increases, I can mail almost any book for less than $3, and it will make it across country in a week in most cases (with the occasional oddball case taking three weeks just to screw up my averages). If I want faster, I can use priority, and the prices still beat all the private firms.

I print my postage at home, and I can waltz into any post office and drop the packages and be on my way. It is hands-down the most convenient, cost-effective service out there.

Yes, I get perturbed at the amount of junk mail that fills up my mailbox, and I would be perfectly happy to see the PO jack up the junk mailers’ prices sky high. But all in all, the junk mail is a tiny price to pay for an amazing service.

Comment #23: Phoebe Fay  on  02/11  at  01:44 PM

here we didn’t have cable, our satellite dish was hard to operate and commandeered by my stepfather, we only had one crappy movie theater, and there was no music store to speak of, much less a decent bookstore.

In the dusty plain of the San Joaquin Valley near where foothills rise as foot stools for the Sierra Nevada range, that could be close to what I had as a child, with a few differences.

We didn’t get cable until I was 12, there were two ‘crappy movie theaters’ in town, and until my mothers friend opened up a bookstore in the mid ‘70s, the only reliable place for reading material was a 2nd hand store that Mother Avenger feared that would choke me with the dust when Professor A took me there for my share of comic books. 

When she first came here, one of her neighbors(this was 1956, mind you) recommended she read the “I’ve been screwed” magazines(the “True Confessions” genre for all you youngins out there) for entertainment.

There was the community theater, as I grow older I understand better why MA did her acting thing there in that there was almost else outside of the challenges of raising her children and various cousins that PA rescued from their mother that she could focus her brain power on.

I use to hold book for her so she could memorize her part. By the time of opening night she would be practicing her lines, I would by then know her cues without the script, feeding them to her back, and wishing her to break a leg.

I remember she said that when my father would come home from teaching and she would tell him, “Talk to me, I’ve been around the babies all day.”

I was glad to get comic books, “moon rocks that grow”, the Science Digest, and other treasures in the mail.

Yes, but it’s exponentially more expensive than just sticking a stamp on it and dropping it in the mail.  Not to mention that it’s much more of a hassle unless you work in an office that has a lot of outgoing FedEx/UPS stuff and schedules a daily in-office pickup.

I don’t think they put them in new commercial buildings, but there used to be mail chutes so that you could walk out of your office, put the envelope into the slot located in the lobby, and it would drop to a collecting bin for later pickup when the postman came around. 

But for non-B2B mail (especially garden-variety letter style mail rather than packages), USPS is definitely better.  Even if you live in an urban area and cost is no object.

Especially when you subsidize someone culturally by sending magazines and CDs, as I do on an ill- regular basis to my cousin in Quinlan, TX, the special 4th-class media rate helps stretch the “Eurasian’s mite”, as it were.

Comment #24: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/11  at  01:44 PM

I’m not necessarily opposed to going to 5 days from 6, but it should definitely NOT be a Saturday.  I have the benefit of having a doorman building in NYC where someone can always get my packages, but lots of people just don’t have the availability during weekdays.  (That being said, the Post Office in my neighborhood opens early and stays open late some days, and we have the benefit of having a 24-hour location down at the main branch).

I think a lot of people almost overlook the incredible value of the postal service.  As much as we complain about how much stamps cost, it’s still an incredible bargain, it costs the same to send something to california as it does to new jersey, and you can send a 2-day air package for something like $3, which is significantly less than fedex.  Not to mention the fact that the USPS simply dwarfs all of the private delivery services put together - if they had to pick up the slack they probably couldn’t do it.

And to add to the “only the USPS delivers” stories - my brother spent 2 1/2 years in the peace corps on a tiny island in micronesia.  None of the big services delivered there, but I could put a big box of goodies together, wrap it in brown paper, and walk it down to the post office, and it would usually cost me less than $10 to ship express.  Sure, it would still take 10-14 days to get there, because on the micronesia end of things air mail doesn’t exist and it has to travel by boat from island to island, but it always arrived in pretty good condition.  It was actually always amusing, because the post office workers were even surprised at how cheap it was to send when they put it in the computer, which (I think) was a legacy of the fact that palau and micronesia were both U.S. protectorates until relatively recently, and actually got serviced by the USPS directly.

Comment #25: sam  on  02/11  at  01:57 PM

Maybe the USPS has lost some business to these private entities

Yes, I expect it has - the most profitable bits. This is the problem when you have a side-by-side public / private arrangement - the private sector takes the most profitable bits, leaving the public sector with the unprofitable bits. This then provides (bogus) evidence for the idea that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector, which is then used to justify a further round of public sector cuts. Eventually, the public sector service dies and all those unprofitable services (such as rural or Saturday deliveries) either disappear altogether or suddenly become vastly more expensive.

Comment #26: Dunc  on  02/11  at  01:58 PM

I’ve been a life-long defender of the USPS.  As a one-time government employee, I know the misery of working under the direction of congress and various administrations - not to mention the USPS bureaucracy itself. (Yes, I know the USPS is an independent agency and is not, technically “the government.”)

As someone who participates in a program that helps track the efficiency of USPS mail delivery (see http://www.reportez.com/) I can testify that their delivery service is pretty good.

What prompts me to respond was the comment about poor, surly, or slow service at customer service counters.  I’ve got to admit that this is a mixed-bag, and does depend, to some degree, on where you live.  While I have occasionally been infuriated by poor service, you have to remember that most clerks try to do a good job, and (most important), they have to deal with a wide range of customers - some who are reasonable and plenty who are giant assholes.

Comment #27: northern virginia  on  02/11  at  02:09 PM

And if the driver doesn’t ring my doorbell, I’m going to have to drive to the fucking depot to pick it up myself, because I can’t hear knocks from my office.

Ours don’t even bother with that bothersome doorbell thingy.

FedEx won’t let my teen son sign for anything.

At least the post office people put things in the door out of the weather, or in the mailbox if they can’t fight the maneating rhodedendron that sometimes hides the doorbell.

Comment #28: Ms Kate  on  02/11  at  02:11 PM

“So, yeah, I can understand the USPS hate - it seems to depend where you live. And I’ve definitely grumbled the “if this were a business, they’d be worried I’d take my money elsewhere” grumble once or twice. But I’d STILL rather have the system we have today than go to privatization - *shudders*.”

The robomail option the branches where I live have just added is a lifesaver.  It can’t give you things, but it can handle most of the shipping options on-site, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

Honestly, I can’t imagine UPS or FedEx being capable of, let alone inclined to, handle the entire friggin’ country so reliably and cheaply.  I’ve never actually heard anyone go off about how the post office ought to be privatized—it’s one of those things like the police department, where nobody but the absolute die-hard crazies amongst the movement thinks it would be a good idea to privatize that service.

I do wish they could charge more for the straight-up junk mail stuff or offer an opt-out, though.  My husband and I get a fair amount of mail, but the weekly mess o’ useless fliers still probably comprises more then 10% of the bulk/weight of a week’s worth of commercial mail and non-profit junk.  It’s a waste, you have to go through it to make sure no legitimate mail got lost in the loose pack of crap, and I imagine it puts no small strain on the local branches’ resources.

Comment #29: preying mantis  on  02/11  at  02:21 PM

There are too many ifs with FedEx and UPS, ie your parcel can go FedEx or UPS, if the destination isn’t a post office box, if you’ve provided the phone number of the recipient, if it’s under X size and X weight, if it’s in an area they deliver to, etc. I much prefer plain old USPS. It’s cheap, fast and reliable. I wouldn’t mind going down to five days a week for delivery, but Saturday would have to remain a delivery day for people who work and/or people who live in apartments and have those tiny mail slots that don’t fit most packages.

Comment #30: Slackejawea  on  02/11  at  02:23 PM

the post office I live near is a perfect storm of incompetence, surliness, and hair-rending frustration.

We must live in the same town.  I think part of it is that my post office is very understaffed, and is located in a very old building that needs upgrades badly, like PO boxes that actually work.  I’ve had many things get lost in the mail since I moved to a small town, and received many damaged things.  Just last week, my birth control pills were “lost in the mail” from my mail-order pharmacy.  I had to make an emergency trip to Planned Parenthood an hour away.  I also usually receive a bundle of Christmas cards around March or so, and sometimes they are ripped to shreds. 

But I still have a PO box, and I still prefer USPS to the others.  I’ve had much worse service with UPS and FedEx than with USPS, and I have a feeling my current post office is not the norm.  I had no idea there was talk of privatization.

Comment #31: big_mary  on  02/11  at  02:28 PM

Just a note as to the increasing cost of stamps, Canada Post introduced a new method of charging for stamps. Stamps marked with a “P” on them are bought at current postage rates, and are then permanently legal stamps: even if the rate goes up, I can still use a “P’ stamp bought at the lower value without paying extra.

Also, I wonder how many private delivery companies would be willing to allow the same type of postcards the public system does. One of our animators has a habit of sending lots of makeshift postcards. We’ve recieved candy wrappers, torn-off chunksof beer cases, part of a paper menu from a chip shop… all with a stamp, valid address, and cryptic message on the back.

Comment #32: Left_Wing_Fox  on  02/11  at  02:49 PM

Just a note as to the increasing cost of stamps, Canada Post introduced a new method of charging for stamps. Stamps marked with a “P” on them are bought at current postage rates, and are then permanently legal stamps: even if the rate goes up, I can still use a “P’ stamp bought at the lower value without paying extra.

We have that now, too. The Post Office calls them “Forever Stamps.” I get them pretty often, just to guard against having to buy a bunch of two-cent stamps after price increases, but I really prefer a nice commemorative most of the time…  smile

Comment #33: Scott  on  02/11  at  03:17 PM

Essie, if you have to wait for service at UPS, it will make the USPS seem like heaven itself.

Comment #34: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/11  at  03:27 PM

preying, the die hards have more power that we’d like to believe.  Die hards do back private police, which they call “security forces”, which are mercenary ops like Blackwater.

Comment #35: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/11  at  03:38 PM

The other idea being floated is no delivery on Tuesday.

Much better in my opinion.

That being said, what would happen to NetFlix if the USPS disappeared?
Most people I know are canceling their cable TV and going strictly to them.
Will the private companies allow NetFlix to continue offering free shipping for their subscription price?

As well as the many small business that I use through Amazon for used music.
What happens to them when shipping a CD costs $3… $4… $5?

Finally using UPS tracking system is easy and frustrating.
When they promise 7 day shipping then hold the package hostage for 4 days in some airport warehouse because it got into town early.

Comment #36: cynickal  on  02/11  at  03:45 PM

Unlike UPS or FedEx, the postal service can FIND MY HOUSE.  If someone I’m buying from online only offers UPS or FedEx, I have them ship to my office.  If they offer USPS, I’ll have them send it to my house.

Privatizing the postal service is a phenomenally stupid idea.

Comment #37: GeekGirlsRule  on  02/11  at  03:47 PM

One of our animators has a habit of sending lots of makeshift postcards. We’ve recieved candy wrappers, torn-off chunksof beer cases, part of a paper menu from a chip shop… all with a stamp, valid address, and cryptic message on the back.

I had a roommate in college who would send odd packages to her boyfriend just to see what she could get away with.  She once sent him a coconut—not in a package, just a coconut with postage on it.

Comment #38: Raging Red  on  02/11  at  03:53 PM

“If it would mean that I can use an entire book of stamps before the rate changes,” -Amanda

First class stamps now just say “First Class” and do not have a price on them.  They will continue to be usable even after a rate increase.  I believe they changed this policy at the last rate increase.

Comment #39: The Bobs  on  02/11  at  03:54 PM

Damn you, cynical, you took both the things I was gonna say! (Dropping Tuesday delivery and Netflix.)  smile

I’ve worked in direct-mail advertising, and the service received from the U.S. Postal Service is worth far more than they’re paid for it—printing and envelope-stuffing were much more significant expenses.  First class mail subsidizes the <strike>junk</strike> <strike>bulk rate</strike> pre-sorted standard and pre-sorted first class.  The opposite should be true, if anything.

Rural delivery would be just about impossible without the USPS.  UPS is expensive and flat refuses to deliver to lots of places.  If you’ve got a rural route address you can just about forget getting FedEx to come out.

More generally, about levels of service… why is it that when we get bad service from a government employee we see this as an indictment of government providing services at all, and when we get bad service from an employee of a corporation we don’t see it as an indictment of capitalism?  I was looking into ordering a Wii, and was trying to find out how much the shipping would cost.  Wildly frustrating experience.  Our mailing address for banking stuff is a post office box.  We get stuff shipped to our apartment.  They would not ship to a PO box.  They would not ship to an address that was not on the bank statement.  There was nothing they could do to help me.  We did not get a Wii.

Comment #40: kaninchen  on  02/11  at  04:05 PM

When they promise 7 day shipping then hold the package hostage for 4 days in some airport warehouse because it got into town early.

This is valuable for businesses.  I order things a lot for my job, and we generally use FedEx, sometimes UPS.  When I choose a shipping option, I make my decision based on when there will be someone onsite to accept the package.  Sometimes I order 3-day shipping because it’s Thursday, and I want my package to arrive on Monday, not Saturday when there will be nobody to sign for it and it’ll end up in FedEx Package Limbo. 

Yet another way that private shipping is great for business transactions, but not so great for individuals/casual use.

Comment #41: The Opoponax  on  02/11  at  04:06 PM

I can’t count the number of times I’ve received crushed or mutilated packages from UPS or FedEx.

My sister briefly worked for UPS while in college.  Their system for loading a truck is to build a “wall” of boxes and to throw other boxes over the wall.  The process is repeated until the truck is full.  Who wants to bet that USPS does not do this?  Incidentally, my sister had to quit after she strained a finger and her boss wouldn’t even let her transfer to handling small packages.

Essie, if you have to wait for service at UPS, it will make the USPS seem like heaven itself.

No shit.  UPS is fine if there’s no one in line ahead of you, but those UPS stores typically only have one employee in the front and it takes them forever to send a dang package out.  And maybe it’s because UPS is a private service, but it seems like many of its customers require much more hand-holding and extra attention—resulting in a much longer wait time for the rest of us.

Comment #42: keshmeshi  on  02/11  at  04:19 PM

Oh, for pete’s sake.  The postal service is, like the library system, a textbook example of a service the government provides because it doesn’t work as a for-profit business.  FedEx and UPS are not replacements for the postal system; they provide a very small portion of the services the USPS provides (only the most profitable services, basically) at a hefty markup.  They’re way too expensive and way too limited in scope to take over all the duties of the postal system.

I run a small side business out of my home, and I send everything by USPS.  It’s the only way I can afford to go, and it works great.  Without the USPS, I’d have to close up shop.

And I agree that UPS is of the devil.  At least FedEx makes an effort to deliver the package you’ve paid a fortune to send, which is why it’s the service of choice for companies that can afford it.  UPS makes a couple of half-hearted tries to show up within an eight-hour window, and if you’re not waiting by the door they chuck your package into a warehouse in the middle of nowhere.  That’s what a privatized mail service would be like: routinely driving miles and miles to pick up your own mail.

Comment #43: Shaenon  on  02/11  at  04:20 PM

They would not ship to an address that was not on the bank statement.

Wow.  That’s really, really weird.  Was that a company policy, or UPS policy?  Because I can’t imagine how private shipping companies could possibly operate if they weren’t allowed to ever ship anything to an address different from the billing address.  That’s pretty much an everyday fact of life for any large company.

Comment #44: The Opoponax  on  02/11  at  04:21 PM

What Shaenon said.

When I was a kid, the logo of the Post Office (as it was then known) was a Pony Express rider. It’s interesting to note that the Pony Express was never a formal part of the Post Office; it worked on a contract basis. The Post Office desperately wanted to incorporate the Pony Express, but it kept getting blocked by Southern senators who favored stagecoach carriers through their states (as opposed to the over-the-Rockies route the ponies took).

The moral is, USPS has always been a political punching bag, whether by quasi-corrupt politicians or head-up-the-ass libertarian types.

Comment #45: Bitter Scribe  on  02/11  at  04:26 PM

And to add to the “only the USPS delivers” stories - my brother spent 2 1/2 years in the peace corps on a tiny island in micronesia.  None of the big services delivered there, but I could put a big box of goodies together, wrap it in brown paper, and walk it down to the post office, and it would usually cost me less than $10 to ship express.

Costed me less than $4 to ship a few brand-new US audio CDs via USPS to a Malaysian penpal who couldn’t purchase them there due to lack of availability during my undergrad years.  Though the postal clerk said it would take at least 3 weeks, those CDs arrived safe and sound in less than 2 weeks.  Couldn’t be happier.  smile

Also, though I’ve known people who have had bad customer service experience at various USPS offices, my experiences have almost always been good-excellent.  Only hiccup I’ve had when shipping a defective DVD bought from an online outlet back to the company only to have it returned to me because it arrived at the company on a saturday and no-one was there to sign for it even though they were open….though that was mainly the company’s fault…not USPS.

Granted, this may have been due to the fact I lived most of my life in urban East coast areas so YMMV. 

IMHO, though USPS can always improve….they are, on average, actually run far better than many private business/corporations I’ve had the dubious honor to encounter/work for…...

Comment #46: exholt  on  02/11  at  04:32 PM

I can understand the hate on USPS - the post office I live near is a perfect storm of incompetence, surliness, and hair-rending frustration.

I lived for 12 years in Chicago and for ten of those years was served by what was officially the worst branch post office in the country.  It was still at least as good or better than FedEx and UPS and far cheaper.

Comment #47: DrDick  on  02/11  at  04:33 PM

DO YOU HEAR ME, POSTMAN?! I SAID RIIIIIIDE!!
I LOVE YOU POSTMAN!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl9_GXvNktI

In all seriousness though… I can’t stand this “privatize all the basic infrastructure” crap. It’s gone so wrong in so many cases that I don’t see how people can think it’s sane. Oh wait, they’re rich spoiled assholes who live in areas where they can hire private companies to provide all those services.

I know, let’s get rid of all this “infrastructure” that Obama wants to build—if people want roads, they can pay to drive on private roads! The quality will be so much better, we can build highways between the areas where people with lots of money live, that can go right over all the poor people with their “government roads.”

Comment #48: Holly  on  02/11  at  04:42 PM

The Opoponax—it was a company (GameStop) policy specifically regarding their Wii/Super Mario Galaxies package. They said the idea was to prevent people from buying tons of them and reselling them on eBay, and if some people were unable to buy them because of their policy that was unfortunate.

Comment #49: kaninchen  on  02/11  at  04:46 PM

They said the idea was to prevent people from buying tons of them and reselling them on eBay

As worthy of a goal as that is, how on Earth does a policy like that help in such a situation?!

Comment #50: Ruby  on  02/11  at  04:54 PM

I live about a hundred yards from a FedEx/Kinkos, and last month I stopped by to just get a cheap ass 2009 calender. Talk about shitty customer service-I stood at the front counter for 10 minutes, completely ignored by the employees, as they went about their other tasks-mostly making banners and stuff for the white bread suburbanites who frequent it. The line to mail packages seemed about as slow as one you’d see at a post office, and I was muttering profanity profusely under my breath while I was being ignored.

I agree, Matt Y’s frequent bouts of libertarianism are annoying-its like Megan McArdle is brainwashing him to write profoundly stupid things.

Comment #51: Amanda in the South Bay  on  02/11  at  04:54 PM

if people want roads, they can pay to drive on private roads! The quality will be so much better, we can build highways between the areas where people with lots of money live, that can go right over all the poor people with their “government roads.”

That won’t even be necessary, Holly. They can just buy Hummers to deal with all the potholes.

Comment #52: Bitter Scribe  on  02/11  at  04:54 PM

“First class stamps now just say “First Class” and do not have a price on them.  They will continue to be usable even after a rate increase.  I believe they changed this policy at the last rate increase.”

I’m not an expert, but I think you’re confusing “Forever” stamps with stamps that are sometimes issued during the interim between when the decision to increase the price of first-class stamps is announced, and when the PO receives final authorization as to what the new First Class rate will be.  If I understand it correctly, the PO pre-printed “F” stamps because they didn’t have enough lead-time to print stamps with the new First Class amount.

For all practical purposes, you may still be right.  If you have some of those “F” stamps laying around, the odds are no one is going to reject them even though they were valid only at the rate of the increase that accompanied their issue.

Does this help with why I’m single?

Comment #53: northern virginia  on  02/11  at  04:59 PM

I ordered a book from Amazon last week (woot free shipping) and my mailman walked up to my door and handed me the package so it wouldn’t get wet. I know when the mail is coming; UPS or FedEx comes whenever it damn well pleases.

You simply can’t beat the reliability and service of USPS.

Now, I think 5 day delivery wouldn’t be that bad, provided that they cut out Tuesdays and not Saturdays, which I hear is under consideration.

Comment #54: Ashley  on  02/11  at  05:40 PM

I sent an online friend in Canada two CDs a couple of weeks ago. I put 4 42c stamps on it, and I’ll bet you that was one stamp too many. Got there just fine.

I didn’t even want to think about how much it would have cost to go UPS or FedEx. (Ironically I’ve thought of starting a private courier business to run packages between Cape Cod and Boston or Providence for $40/trip, but the main thing that has stopped me thus far is the legalities of no-questions-asked service.)

Comment #55: BrianX  on  02/11  at  05:40 PM

If you’ve ever really lived in a foreign country, you would never speak disrespectfully of the USPS. It’s fantastic: it has much better service and is less than half the price of the postal service in most European countries. And if you’ve ever lived in developing countries, you’ll bless the USPS whenever you walk in, as the employees are friendly and helpful instead of despotic.

Mmm - you need to look up the postal conditions in Victorian England some time - they make any current Post Office look weak.

The Post Office probably counts as a utility.  Corporations seem to have a real thing for privatising utilities and then getting rid of the socialist competition. Remove the Post Office from the government and the fees for getting letters anywhere will go way, way up.

Comment #56: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/11  at  06:02 PM

I’ve had more than one company refuse to ship anywhere but to my credit card billing address, and I was ordering a $10 product. Since I like to get my packages at work because UPS can’t figure out where I live if the sender doesn’t put the apartment number on it, I find this quite annoying. Considering that the rental office takes the packages during the day, I can’t imagine how it’s important whether I live in apartment A or F in a 12-unit building. But taking it to the office where the staff knows me and doesn’t need my exact address in order to hold a package for me is more trouble than shipping it back halfway across the country, I suppose. The USPS manages to find me with or without an apartment number, and FedEx leaves it at the office regardless, but UPS will use any excuse to return to sender.

Comment #57: one jewish dyke  on  02/11  at  06:42 PM

I work for an immigration firm, and though we do use Fedex for one port of entry in New York where USPS consistently can’t find the correct building for delivery, and DHL for the Mexican consulate in Ciudad Juarez, we use USPS for everything else, across the board. It is faster, cheaper and more reliable.

So many companies use UPS (Amazon, I’m glaring at you) that I have to have personal deliveries sent to me at work if I want to get them in less than a month. The delivery policies of private companies tend to be ridiculous.

Comment #58: Leighton  on  02/11  at  06:59 PM

Also, UPS’s website suck sooo hard.

Comment #59: rowmyboat  on  02/11  at  07:07 PM

Another perk of USPS?  It’s someplace to apply for your passport and have a passport photo taken for relatively little cost. When I needed to get a passport for a research trip to the UK with only 8 weeks lead time, I was able to pay my $205 (or thereabouts) and get my passport within two weeks. 

If USPS is privatized, who would take over processing passport applications?  The DMV?  The SSA?  It would be a nightmare of long lines, inconvenient locations, and probably unbearably long wait times to process.

Comment #60: history_mom  on  02/11  at  08:26 PM

Some people still have full time jobs, you know.

Fixed that for you, Amanda.

For the foreseeable future (we hope our usual annual work cycle will lift us back up this spring) we’ve been scaled back to 35 hours a week at my job. So now I get off work at 2:30 instead of 3:30.

The Republican version of Europeanizing America—European hours, for Third-World wages. (And lucky to have that—don’t I know it!)

Anyway, we might have more time for dealing with the Post Office in the afternoons than we want, soon.

Ironically, when I got off work at 3:30 it was almost perfect for checking the mail—twice, at the house we burnt down and are rebuilding, and here at the apartment mailroom. Now I come home an hour before and neither delivery is ever done.

Comment #61: Mark Foxwell  on  02/11  at  08:44 PM

(snarking)I know, let’s get rid of all this “infrastructure” that Obama wants to build—if people want roads, they can pay to drive on private roads! The quality will be so much better, we can build highways between the areas where people with lots of money live, that can go right over all the poor people with their “government roads.”(/snarking)
Holly on 02/11 at 11:42 AM

Amanda—isn’t that exactly something the current governor of Texas is infamous for?

I read in left-wing free weekly newspapers back in 1989 that the then-new GHW Bush admin was planning to foster more toll roads and to privatize—and I gather the state of Indiana got snookered by one of these Republican acolytes into such a deal, whereby the roads were taken over by some private firm on a 50 year contract or some such.

Ah, Holly, the humor writes itself, I’m afraid—we can’t top the reality of what these people have already done let alone what they hope for next.

And sadly it isn’t really very funny.

If I didn’t make it clear in my prior post—I luv USPS.

Comment #62: Mark Foxwell  on  02/11  at  09:34 PM

Hmm. 43 cents versus 8 bucks. Which do I want to spend?

Comment #63: paul  on  02/11  at  09:36 PM

FedEx doesn’t attempt to make deliveries to the home, as far as I know.  I’ve been at home every day for almost 10 years, and they’ve never tried to knock or ring the bell.  They leave a ticket on the door saying we didn’t answer the door, then they keep the package on the truck for two more days.  Not only do we have to drive out to bum fuck nowhere to get our packages, we have to play telephone tag (expensive telephone tag!) with the customer service people, regional office people, and finally the local distro office people to get the package off of the truck and held for us so we can pick it up.

All the time praying that they didn’t leave a $300 video card or other high end piece of computer equipment somewhere where it could get crushed or rained on.

The post office may make us go pick up our packages, but they don’t screw around on us.  And we could take the bus to get there.

Comment #64: Godless Heathen  on  02/11  at  11:06 PM

Back in the US I always hated the private companies just because IIRC yeah, you could get your package redelivered on your specified DAY, but that meant you sat around ALL DAY waiting for the damn package.  Then there were the cases where they never rang the doorbell even though you sat around all day waiting for the package.  Our UPS guy was fine and good, but he did have this tendency to ring the doorbell and vanish like a ninja, leaving only the package as proof he was ever there. 

Post office wasn’t immune to this.  Several times the post office didn’t even come to the door.  They just left the “undelivered” slip in our postbox.  And I would go to the post office to get my package, but it was still too early and the post guy wasn’t back yet. 

Now I live in a country where I get delivery almost every day.  The post office delivers M-Sat, but if you get a package from overseas they’ll deliver on Sunday.  Private shipping companies deliver every day of the week.  Generally when you buy a product, you can choose the day and time (from private companies—I don’t think regular post does this) you want it delivered, so if you know you’ll be home between 2pm and 4pm on a Thursday, you can schedule it for then.  If a package is delivered and you’re not home, whether it’s private or the regular postal service, you can choose the day and time you want your package redelivered.  Redelivery is from 8/9 in the morning to 9pm.  It’s pretty sweet.

BUT, since some mentioned junkmail, there is no junkMAIL.  It’s totally legal to leave crap in your post box.  I suppose that ... creates more jobs.  But it sure is annoying to A.) have people zipping around on motor scooters at 2am to stuff shit in your box, and B.) have your post box overflowing with flyers and junk. 

Also, I think they’ve either privatized our PO or are trying to privatize it.  I know they privatized the savings portion ...

Comment #65: BonAppetit  on  02/11  at  11:38 PM

if people want roads, they can pay to drive on private roads!

Umm, these exist and are called ‘turnpikes’.  They suck slightly less than regular roads.

Anyway, I just checked UPS about mailing a letter.  If I wanted to send a letter to my mom, it would cost $17 AND I would have to drive to a UPS place to drop it off.  To pay my electric bill, it would cost $15 and again, I would have to drop it off.  UPS my be fine for packages, but it just plain sucks for regular mail.  It would cost me nearly 30 times as much AND be less convenient.

Comment #66: bananacat  on  02/12  at  12:39 AM

Oh, hell yeah. I send documents back and forth to Canada frequently. UPS would charge me something like $45 to get it there in under a week. The post office will do it for $5. It has something to do (I’m told) with the fact that the post office has established systems to get things quickly through customs and the private companies do not.

I never understood the hatred of the post office, either. I’ve never had a problem with it. Also, I work at a job where I have to send in timesheets on a weekly basis. Having to get those delivered via UPS every week would totally suck.  Now I just throw it in the mailbox.

I just got my kids passports at the post office as well. They provide a lot of services there. It would suck without them.

Comment #67: Lexie  on  02/12  at  12:52 AM

I retired from the USPS some years ago.  The last part of my tenure was spent as a rural carrier.  When people tried to wind me up about UPS or FedEx, I’d tell them, “First of all, y’know how the private guys find addresses?  They stop a mail carrier and ask.  Second, y’know how they serve the little bitty far-away communities?  They pull into a relatively close in post office and MAIL that package to Remote, or wherever.  They don’t actually GO there.”  Yes, folks, there is a Remote Oregon.  And I’ve been there.

Comment #68: Older  on  02/12  at  01:11 AM

The main reason that the government got into mail delivery was to ensure that even remote places (like Remote, Oregon) got service.  The main reason they made it a monopoly, AIUI, was so that the relatively cheap deliveries (between two downtown offices served by the same station, frex) could subsidize delivery to places farther afield without having to charge impoverished rural dwellers prohibitive rates.

The low USPS rate is very impressive compared with rates in other countries which are a whole lot smaller than the U.S.  It delights me to know that Sasha Obama can send a postcard from the White House to a cousin in Hawaii for just 27 cents.  And even more, that a taxpayer in Alaska can send a complaint to her father for the same amount.

Comment #69: Dr. Psycho  on  02/12  at  01:36 AM

Hey, I just wanted to thank Amanda and everyone else for the Post Office love.  I’ve been working for the PO for about a year now as a city carrier.  I can appreciate the range of services and low prices even more now that I see the inside of the system.  Does it get crazy sometimes?  Yeah.  Is management sometimes bloated, idiotic and a cost-suck?  Sure.  Do you occasionally get cranky people serving you?  Of course, just like employees get mean-ass customers we have to put up with!

But this is a system that, as of now, reaches every single home in the US 6 out of 7 days a week.  Every day, someone comes to your house and drops your mail off.  For $0.42 per first class letter.  And will pick up mail that you put out, too.  Where else do you get that kind of deal?

(And, for everyone hating on Bulk Standard Mail - that’s what pays the USPS good ol’ hard money, which covers my paycheck.  It may be annoying, but that’s what keeps the system running - first and second class mail can’t do it)

Comment #70: rt  on  02/12  at  01:45 AM

I confess that I haven’t read all 70 previous comments as carefully as possible, but most of you are forgetting that the USPS kind of already IS privatized. The USPS is not a normal tax supported agency of the federal government. Or at least it hasn’t been since 1970. As my Dad is known to gleefully point out, the Postal Service is the only government agency that you don’t have to pay for until you use it—I don’t know if this is true exactly, but it is true that it’s the stamp that pays for the mail, not tax dollars that come out of your paycheck.

True, the USPS enjoys a many, many perks that only a government entity gets to enjoy. But it operates much like a business. And perhaps this is why the Postal Service is SO FRACKIN’ AWESOME.

Comment #71: Hippie Killer  on  02/12  at  02:40 AM

And I really can’t think of a single time I’ve gotten a banged-up package from the Postal Service.

I have, but at least they put it in a plastic baggie with a note that explains why it got mangled.  UPS just hands me boxes with holes in them.

Comment #72: Mnemosyne  on  02/12  at  04:02 AM

UPS failed to deliver my boyfriends Christmas gifts, effectivly ruining my christmas. Yeah, fuck them.

Comment #73: atalised  on  02/12  at  04:48 AM

But this is a system that, as of now, reaches every single home in the US 6 out of 7 days a week.  Every day, someone comes to your house and drops your mail off.  For $0.42 per first class letter.  And will pick up mail that you put out, too.

[my emphasis]

This is a common misconception, but it is not true.  There are definitely communities where the USPS will not perform any home-delivery or home-pickup services whatsoever.  I used to live in one, in California.  And I’m not talking about far-flung houses spaced miles apart; this is a town of 2 square miles, with over 7,000 people living there.

Mail from one town resident to another had to be trucked 300 miles south to be postmarked, then trucked back.  Usually took a little over a week.  Mail from anywhere else took at least 10-15 days to arrive, if you were lucky.

“Neither rain, nor sleet, nor snow…” is bullshit.

Comment #74: elmo  on  02/12  at  12:59 PM

Does FedEx or UPS even deliver regular mail?

No, they do not. It is illegal for them, or anyone but a government employee to deliver regular mail.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001696——000-.html

I’m amused that nobody in this thread seems to know this…

Comment #75: CTD  on  02/12  at  06:47 PM

Does FedEx or UPS even deliver regular mail?

No, they do not. It is illegal for them, or anyone but a government employee to deliver regular mail. I’m amused that nobody in this thread seems to know this…

I knew it. I also know that there’s an exception for “priority” mail, which is why you can send letters FedEx or UPS. Any letter sent through them is, ipso facto, priority. IOW, it’s a big fat loophole.

Comment #76: Bitter Scribe  on  02/12  at  08:19 PM

No, they do not.

I suppose it depends what you mean by regular mail, but I send letters and other small paper-oriented items via FedEx all the time.  Though, yes, the assumption, as with anything you send by private carrier, is that it’s “priority”.  If sending a letter via FedEx is illegal, it’s so rarely enforced that it’s become an everyday business practice.  It’s so common, in fact, that FedEx even makes special envelopes for when you are sending just a few sheets of paper.

If I need to get something across the country by tomorrow, I will send it FedEx, whether it’s a coffin (yes, I have actually ordered a coffin for overnight delivery!) or someone’s paycheck.  I’ve never met anyone in the corporate world who thought otherwise, or who was worried that doing so might be illegal.

Comment #77: The Opoponax  on  02/12  at  09:32 PM

yes, I have actually ordered a coffin for overnight delivery!

Um, what’s your line of work, again?

Comment #78: Bitter Scribe  on  02/12  at  11:52 PM

What the post office defines as regular main (a “letter”) can be found here:http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/julqtr/39cfr310.1.htm.

Private carriers are allowed to carry “urgent” letters to a “particular person” in a specific instance, however they are not allowed to run a mail route. That is, UPS and FedEx are legally proscribed from making a regular circuit with routine daily stops like your postal carrier does.  Ergo, those companies are prohibited by law from becoming anything like a private post office. There have been quite a few successful private post offices in our history. They’ve all been sued and shut down by the .gov which doesn’t like people cutting into its revenue stream.

Did you also know that your beloved Post Office requires private express carriers to charge more than it does for urgent mail?

Comment #79: CTD  on  02/13  at  02:02 AM

keckmeshi @ 2/11, 2:19pm:
“My sister briefly worked for UPS while in college.  Their system for loading a truck is to build a “wall” of boxes and to throw other boxes over the wall.  The process is repeated until the truck is full.  Who wants to bet that USPS does not do this?”

Nope.  Larger packages got lined up in delivery order on the floor of the delivery van’s big cargo compartment; there was a sliding door between the driver’s compartment and that cargo area.  After every 4 or 5 parcel deliveries, you’d shift the line of packages forward.

The driver’s seat was on the right (so they could reach out the window to stuff mail into a box).  To the driver’s left was a large metal tray, where the heavy plastic trays of sorted mail and flats would be put within easy reach.  I always put small parcels (boxes of checks, mail-order prescriptions, etc.) into another of those trays, again in delivery order, on the floor to the left of the driver’s seat.

(I’m describing how it was done in the LLV’s—Long Life Vehicles—the USPS began using in the 80’s.  The newer Flex Fuel Vehicles, which were used at some stations that had their own fuel pumps, were poorly designed from the POV of how much mail and parcels could be kept within easy reach.  But my favorite delivery vehicles were always the older quarter-ton Jeep-like—some were actually made by Jeep—vehicles.  Even though they were considerably smaller than the LLVs or FFVs, you could actually pack almost as much mail and packages into the Jeep’s cargo compartment; in the LLVs and FFVs, there was so much cargo space that parcels and trays were more likely to shift and slide around, while in the Jeeps the parcels and trays filled the compartment completely enough that there was little shifting possible until a big part of the mail had been delivered.)

(Thirty years with USPS before taking retirement last year.)

Comment #80: Bruce A.  on  02/13  at  02:51 AM

I can only imagine that anyone who thinks the USPS ought to be privatized is someone who has never actually used the USPS for anything at all. As others have said, it’s light-years better than any of the private parcel-delivery service in terms of speed, cost, options, and customer service. I sent a letter to middle-of-fucking-nowhere Russia a few years ago (long story, don’t ask). Cost me 55 cents.

USPS doesn’t actually deliver to Russia though, being the “US"PS…

(This is not to say that FedEx/UPS is necessarily better, since FedEx/UPS may also give the mail to the foreign mail service to deliver! Then you’ll be super happy you spent the extra $100…)

———
If you’ve ever really lived in a foreign country, you would never speak disrespectfully of the USPS. It’s fantastic: it has much better service and is less than half the price of the postal service in most European countries.

Depending on when you lived there, it might have been because of the idiotic half-arsed privatization schemes the European postal services have been subjected to. In Finland the post office is now a public corporation, it’s still owned by the state, the most visible effects were that a large number of post offices were closed and the name was changed from “Posti” to “Itella” (a word that doesn’t mean anything) because it sounds more “international”. Gahh….

A lot of governments of smaller countries have somehow gotten the impression that WTO’s GATS treaty obligates them to subject mail services to this kind of “competition”, but apparently the USA feels free to disregard this as far as the USPS monopoly goes??

Comment #81: windy  on  02/13  at  04:57 AM

RFD’s only 118 years old:

The Post Office Department first experimented with the idea of rural mail delivery on October 1, 1891 to determine the viability of RFD. They began with five routes covering ten miles, 33 years after free delivery in cities had begun. The first routes to receive RFD during its experimental phase were in Jefferson County, West Virginia, near Charles Town, Halltown, and Uvilla.

After five years of controversy, RFD finally became an official service in 1896 under President Cleveland. That year, 82 rural routes were put into operation. A massive undertaking, nationwide RFD service took several years to implement, and remains the single costliest extension of services ever instituted by the U.S. postal service (and one of the most popular).[4]

The service has grown steadily. By 1901, the mileage had increased to over 100,000; the cost was $1,750,321 and over 37,000 carriers were employed. In 1910 the milage was 993,068; cost $36,915,000; carriers 40,997. In 1913 came the introduction of parcel post delivery, which caused another boom in rural deliveries. Parcel post service allowed the distribution of national newspapers and magazines, and was responsible for millions of dollars of sales in mail-order merchandise to customers in rural areas. In 1930 there were 43,278 rural routes serving about 6,875,321 families—that is about 25,471,735 persons. The cost was $106,338,341.[5] In 1916, the Good Roads Bill authorized federal funds for highway construction, which opened up roads in rural America to allow passage of mail.

Today, as in years past, the rural delivery service uses a network of rural routes traveled by carriers to deliver and pick up mail to and from roadside mailboxes. Formerly, an address for mail to a rural delivery address included both the rural route number & the box number, for example “RR 5, Box 10.” With the creation of the 911 emergency system, it became necessary to discontinue the old rural route numbers in favor of house numbers and street names as used on city routes. This change enabled emergency services to more quickly locate a rural residence.

Comment #82: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/13  at  01:30 PM
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