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Next entry: Tenthers and the problem of violence against women Previous entry: CSA Week #17: Didn’t Forget Edition

Mad Men Not-Tuesday: “Because WTF” Edition

Spoilers.

I guess for the finale, I’m back to doing this “Mad Men” review on a Monday, because, well, I’ve got a lot to say about that.  I was wrong that they wouldn’t mention Disneyland, but right that it wasn’t all that important in terms of SCDP’s business.  But the idea of Disney—-the fantasy of Disney-dominated fairy tales—-was indeed very important to this episode.

The main problem with the episode is that it, frankly, sucked.  Besides the abortion cop-out,* it wasn’t even really the plot or the ideas or the character development.  At the end of the day, it was the pacing and the scripting, which were lazy and anvilicious.  Matthew Weiner admits they just finished the episode on Wednesday, and I think that’s all you need to know about why it didn’t work.  The editing was all off—-the fact that they got home from California and were in his apartment in a quick cut was confusing, and we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how long they’d been back in New York.  I realize they were trying to speed things up to capture the idea of a whirlwind courtship, but they failed.  It’s not like the team behind “Mad Men” can’t do a swift and dirty episode.  The end of last season was amazing.  But this was just confusing. 

Which is too bad, because despite the abortion fakeout,** I thought the plot developments were solid.  And I think there were good ideas about how to execute these developments, but the pacing ruined it all. The whole season has been about Don wavering back and forth between becoming an honest person who has a grown-up relationship with a woman and enjoys real friendships with people like Peggy, and retreating back into the fantasy of Don Draper, a man who seems like he stepped right out of a Coke ad.  This episode was about him committing to the latter, mostly out of fear, and convincing himself that it’s what he really wants.  And I do think that Hamm did a great job of capturing that delusional glint in Don’s eyes as he tells himself that he’s in “love” with a woman that he literally knows nothing about, and the other actors did a great job at displaying contempt and confusion at his delusion.  The scene in the restaurant got the most attention for the way Megan “proves” herself by being calm when Sally spills a milkshake, but let’s not forget that Betty (who she’s being compared to) seems to have been a sweet, delightful woman who did everything right before the realities of marriage and children wore her down, and made her double down on the childish fantasy of romance she initially shared with Don. But the takeaway for me in that scene was one thing they did do right, which was to make Megan-and-the-kids look like a Coke ad, something that Don wants to step in to to forget himself.

What’s bothersome to me is that there was a great episode buried in that mess.  The name “Tomorrowland” was completely ironic, since the fantasies the characters were indulging were the nostalgic ones that actually dominate the Disney franchise.  The references to sexist, retrograde fairy tale fantasies abounded: Cinderella, “The Sound of Music”, and Sleeping Beauty was implied when Don woke Megan up and proposed.  Peggy and Kenneth are shown eagerly taking a piss all over Cinderella as a tired, old fantasy (and Kenneth also backs that up by having a moment where he basically argues that there is life after “happily ever after”, and marriages do need care and feeding after the curtains close), but the rest of the characters eat up the fantasy.  Marc pointed out that Megan and Don’s conversations are all about their romance, and how “good” they think each other is.  Their actual compatibility is as relevant as that in a Disney story.  She’s the princess, he’s the prince—-they don’t even need to like each other. 

Betty and Henry are the “after” in this little tableau.  After the whirlwind, fairy tale romance has ended, and you find yourself married to a stranger, then what?  Betty has become a complete monster now, and because of the half-assed storytelling in this episode, it’s only those of us in the audience with elephant-like memories who grasp what they’re stabbing at—-when Don first met Betty, she was Megan.  Except she spoke Italian and not French.  One of TWOPers joked that Megan spent the episode playing the role of a Miss America contestant, and I think that was the point.  Here’s me in evening wear.  Here’s me in a swimsuit.  I just love children, and I speak two languages!  I have many vague aspirations to artiness, but no actual ambitions.  She might as well have done a baton-twirling act.  But it works on Don, and it did when Betty ran the same standard feminine con on him.  And as it worked on Henry when Betty did it to him.  But there’s always an “after”. 

The problem was that they failed to get the audience emotionally invested.  Producing the ring early in this episode made everything that followed as predictable as humidity after rain.  Marc also made the good point that if they had Anna’s family send Don the ring in the mail right at the peak of his happiness with Faye, then they could have distracted us and made us feel the impact when this precious gift from a dead friend ended up being the prize in the Miss Wife contest instead of a legitimate token of real love between Don and Faye. 

What was also confusing was why Peggy was so upset.  It could have been more clear that it was in part because Don compared Megan to her in a fit of rationalization.  But I think that’s what fueled a lot of it, because this man whose respect and friendship she thought she had basically compared her actual ambition and actual talent to the baton-twirling act of Miss Wife USA.  It’s not that she wants to marry Don, especially not when she has sexy Village Voice journalist in her bed.  She thought she was valued as a human being and a worker, but her gender will always keep real respect out of her hands.  I do think the one scene that really, completely worked was the one between her and Joan.  For years, Peggy has tried to befriend Joan by being her usual Peggy self—-optimistic, sunny, looking to Joan as a mentor without thinking about how this makes Joan feel when Peggy outranks her.  But when she comes to Joan full of bitterness because the scales have fallen from her eyes?  Now they can be friends.  I thought there was a rather valuable point made about feminism in there, too.  There’s a lot of whining from conservative women about evil feminists shutting them out instead of believing in some generic idea of “sisterhood”.  I think that scene showed more the reality.  Their moment of feminist sisterhood is rooted in a shared critique over a system where their actual skills and accomplishments are discounted because they’re forever going to be treated like the gender whose role is to twirl batons in a bikini. 


I’m probably the only person left who still defends Betty, or the portrayal of Betty.  Obviously, actual Betty is a monster, but I think the show has done a bang-up job of getting her character to this place.  She’s the end result of a system where women’s only value is metaphoric baton-twirling.  Once the crown has been placed on your head and life keeps going on, then what?  Betty shucked one crown for another and found that she’s not getting different results.  When she crawled into Sally’s bed, I was actually touched.  The first scene of the show was the other one that worked really well, with Don suggesting that teenagers are mourning the ends of their childhood.  Betty has the temperament and maturity of an adolescent, and like a teenager, she does long for the simplicity of childhood and the warmth of believing in fairy tales.  Her firing of Carla was unbelievably awful, but sadly realistic, right down to the shot at Carla’s children and the petulant refusal to give her a recommendation.  (I’m still hoping in my heart Henry wrote it for her, and I think it was implied that he did.)  Betty wants to break all ties to the past.  She wants to be like Megan, a blank slate.  She’d probably fire her children if she could.

The last scene between Betty and Don was also confusing, but I think what they were getting at is that these two are basically in the same boat, reaching for fantasies instead of making reality work for them.  When Don said that Betty can just move again if this house isn’t perfect, I think he was predicting Tomorrowland for himself and for Betty—-a life of constant restlessness, because you’re compelled by a fantasy that is always out of reach. 

I know that a lot of what was upsetting about that episode is watching Don fail so spectacularly at his self-improvement plan.  I’m mentally trying to separate that element from my actual criticisms of the pacing and writing of that episode.  Before this even aired, Sady called out the central problem in building the show around someone who is such a ripe asshole.

The character appears to have reached the point of no return; we’ve seen the man commit so many acts of thoughtless cruelty, and wreck his own chances at happiness so many times, that watching the character actually feels like knowing a reckless drunk. Even if he comes through and saves the day this time, he’s going to ruin it all again tomorrow; what’s the point of hoping?

But then, the other option is to let him fail, and fail in an exceptionally humiliating and gruesome way which will carry severe, terrible consequences for every character on the show. That’s entirely plausible, of course. “Exceptionally humiliating and gruesome” just so happens to be a major part of the show’s tonal palette, and “severe, terrible consequences” are its favorite form of plot twist. But if the show does this, a large part of the audience will feel cheated, and they’ll have every right to feel that way. The show has already gotten very dark this season, and if it ends without bringing us even a little hope, it may be hard to invest anything in it emotionally.

That’s a legitimate way to feel, but I don’t really feel that way.  I’m happy to watch Don be a slow burn tragic hero.  On this show, he is the patriarchy.  Their most clever observation about the patriarchy through Don is the glib charm.  Don is all the lies of our culture wrapped into one man, and his slide downhill is all about dismantling myths that we absorb even as we reject them.  Don is the Randian myth of the individual superman, and this season we really see how much said people rest on the shoulders of the worker bees they feel so superior to.  Don is the myth of the chivalrous white knight, and we see the sleazy, cheating bastard beneath that charming exterior.  Now he’s playing the part of an actual Von Trapp-style patriarch, and that’s also a lie.  He’s an anti-hero.  I’m happy with that—-I want to see him fail. 

What I don’t get is why this is the last episode of the penultimate season.  It would have been interesting to send the show out on such an epic personal failure for Don.  My prediction is that they went this way because they’re setting up a 5th season that is all about a cynical take on advertising. In the fourth season, Don legitimately grappled with letting himself be himself instead of just this fantasy he projects into the world.  But he was also not doing great work.  Maybe this last season will be about how the price he pays for his talent is that he can never really be an honest man. 

It’s really hard to say at this point, and not for any good reasons, but mostly because that last episode is so confusing.  But I will say that they probably got me in a place where I’ll watch it again, just to see if I’m missing some key element that made it better than it seemed to be on screen.  I doubt it.  I wish they could just go back and redo it in the way it needed to be done.

The real kicker to me about how that episode failed to be emotionally compelling was I felt nothing but annoyance when the ring box was brought out.  That should have been devastating, a real sign that Don was so far gone that he’s violating the memory of Anna.  Instead, I was thinking, “Ah jeez, that ring didn’t last long in his pocket.”

*I can’t even bear to think about it.  I can’t believe they whipped out the oldest cliche in the book.  On TV, 99% of women who enter abortion clinics have a change of heart and leave.  In reality, I’m guessing the numbers are reversed. 

**Seriously?  Et tu, “Mad Men”?  You put so much effort into capturing how people really are and were—-and because of this, you never let the audience get too attached to Don Draper, even though he’s played by the charming Jon Hamm—-and suddenly you get into picking the fan service cliche about abortion?  And believe you and me, it was fan service.  The folks at the TWOP forums were peeing themselves in delight that Joan gets to have a baby.  It was picking the easy over the real, and on a show that’s batting nearly 1000 in the other direction.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:22 AM • (225) Comments

So, what novel was Don reading in bed in his hotel room?

Comment #1: smally  on  10/18  at  11:39 AM

I agree with pretty much everything you’ve written here.  What a terrible episode to end the season on.  I don’t know if you’ve been watching Rubicon, but it had a poor finale as well.

It’s strange to see AMC go 0 for 2 on the night.

Comment #2: dead souls  on  10/18  at  11:41 AM

This finale makes a bit more sense to me if I see the show as “The Peggy Show,” rather than “The Don Show.” The first episode brought up Peggy’s first day of work, and she’s been going upwards from there. The last season ended with all this optimism about a new day for SCDP, but we’ve seen every single one of them fail and degenerate this season. Meanwhile, carries Don and the firm all season, until finally she breaks their losing streak.

I really like Don, and I wanted to see him put himself back together. But you’re, right, he’s a drunk and a dog. The minute he mentioned Maria von Trapp, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. If this is the direction he’s going to go, I’ll get through it rooting for him to fail.

But I’m continuing to be very rewarded by emotional involvement with Peggy.

Comment #3: humanadverb  on  10/18  at  11:47 AM

Peggy is what’s supposed to make this show not sink into a pit of despair.  As Don goes down, she goes up.  I do think that this was supposed to be a breakthrough for her, in terms of actually owning her anger and naming injustice.  The fact that Harry, who used to be Mr. Sobbypants over his cheating, is openly hitting on women?  Just one more reason for her to get cynical.  But I think that’ll help her.  It’s already helping her create an alliance with Joan (who has her own delusions).

Comment #4: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  11:50 AM

This finale makes a bit more sense to me if I see the show as “The Peggy Show,” rather than “The Don Show.”

I really think that this is the only coherent and enjoyable interpretation of the show.

Comment #5: Dan Watson  on  10/18  at  11:52 AM

The folks at TWOP were suggesting that Don is going to promote Megan to copywriter.  Basically, he’s becoming Roger in every way.  And it was because of Roger’s secretary-wife that they hired Danny, a mediocre writer.  Now Don, who is Roger II, will be following in his footsteps, except actually giving Megan a job she doesn’t deserve.

In other words, Don is John McCain.  He’s like, “That Hillary/Peggy is doing a bang-up job, so I think I’ll go grab myself someone in a skirt with ambition, but who’s like hotter.  They’re all the same, right?  Meet Sarah/Megan.”

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  11:54 AM

Actually, I think Joan’s decision went along with the whole theme of self-delusion and living in a fantasyland.  I can see where a woman in her (I think) early 30s in the 1960s would decide that this was her last chance to have a baby, so I wasn’t shocked and appalled to find out she changed her mind.

We already know that her husband is at best borderline abusive, so I can’t imagine how she thinks this is all going to work out if he ever discovers it’s Roger’s baby and not his, but, again, that’s the fantasyland aspect of it.  She’ll have the baby and her husband will come home and not be a jerk anymore and they’ll all live happily ever after.

Comment #7: Mnemosyne  on  10/18  at  11:55 AM

And I wasn’t surprised by Don’s backsliding since he is, after all, the Devil himself.

Comment #8: Mnemosyne  on  10/18  at  11:59 AM

I agree that Joan’s decision could have played like it was part of the self-delusion theme….if the episode had been more coherent.  On screen, it felt like fan service.  They really dropped the ball.  Too bad, because there was a possibility of rescuing that cliche, but they failed.

Comment #9: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  12:01 PM

That’s part of where we disagree, though—I thought it was a really good episode.  Don had that line at the beginning about teenagers mourning for their childhood, but that’s not the whole line.  The second half is, “They don’t know it yet, but they don’t want to die.”

I think that’s a huge part of what’s driving Don in this episode—Anna died a long, painful death and he’s starting to realize that he, too, is going to die.  So he does what men have done since time immemorial to pretend to themselves they’re never going to die:  he marries a young, hot chick.

That turns out to be the irony of getting the interview with the American Cancer Society—the agency may get renewed “life” by joining up with an organization that’s founded on death.  I think that’s part of what freaks Don out, too, and makes him run in the other direction.

The fantasy that everyone is trying to live out is that they’re never going to have to die.

Comment #10: Mnemosyne  on  10/18  at  12:14 PM

I loved this finale.  I agree the editing was a bit off but the basic storyline was great. It did a good job of both resolving and not resolving the major plot lines.

Joan could still have a miscarriage.  Her husband could either come home or get killed. Betty and Henry could either separate or not or he could even die. Betty and the kids could have either a smaller or bigger role next season since they’ve moved. The old house hasn’t actually been sold; someone could still decide to keep it.

Betty could have a change of heart about Carla (although I don’t see Carla having one about Betty.)  Don could see thru Megan—her calling her mother right away was very telling! (And what was the point of her telling Don that her former roommate had been too interested in Megan’s father? ) Megan could see through Don or learn he’s not (no longer) as rich as she had thought. Things seem to be looking up for the firm but it isn’t clear yet. Etc.

We moved to California (from Michigan) in 1968.  California was the American Dream back then. It made sense to me that key scenes were located there.

Comment #11: Sixtieslibber  on  10/18  at  12:19 PM

One more thing about the death motif:  this episode of the show takes place in 1965, right?  Walt Disney dies the next year, in 1966.  From lung cancer caused by heavy smoking. 

The motif even shows up in the conversation about Disneyland—the much-debated Mr. Toad ride ends with Mr. Toad getting in a head-on collision with a train and literally ending up in Hell.  They argue about who does and doesn’t get to ride it but, let’s face it, it’s a ride we’re all going to take eventually.

Comment #12: Mnemosyne  on  10/18  at  12:25 PM

I see the seeds of what you’re saying, Mnem. The script was half the way there. But we have to extrapolate and rationalize too much. They failed to pace it well or make the transitions clear. Subsequently, the interpretations are too much conjecture, not enough in the text.

There was, like I said, a good episode in that one. But they didn’t extract it. It was ham-fisted in parts, confusing in others.

Comment #13: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  12:29 PM

This episode did make me sad, because I confess that I like Don Draper and wanted to see him succeed in his plan for self-improvement.  But now it looks like he won’t.  I find themes of redemption very compelling, and it looks to me now that there will be none for Don.  Maybe he’ll even be dead next season.

I’m fine with Peggy being on her way up, but I do wonder when we will see her deep flaws; it seems every character on the show has at least one except for her.

Comment #14: Linnaeus  on  10/18  at  12:36 PM

Not much time to comment today, but here goes…

“There are no fresh starts.”

With that line, Henry brings us full-circle on this season’s theme: starting over. We’ve seen Don’s back-and-forth struggles, the false starts and misguided starts and some real progress. In the end, though, Don is addicted to something a helluva lot deeper than tobacco-account money.

Don is addicted to making reality fit his neat little model—a commentary on our times if ever there was one (I see this every-bloody-where I look these days). He’s addicted to the BS upon which he’s founded his entire career.

Don’s model involves a happy and affluent family anchored by a loving and nurturing (and present) mother, and like any degenerate addict he jumps to action full-bore at the slightest possibility of a fix. Megan reacting to a kid’s accident at the table without Betty-like meltdown was all he needed to believe again. He’ll certainly take that over Dr. Faye and her “interventions,” although there’s no doubt that this marriage to Megan is gonna lead to as many sleepless nights as Roger and Henry are probably having.

Everyone’s claims to be in Tommorowland, but because they’re all acting like teenagers (real “tommorow-never-comes” teenagers, not Don’s version which is all about projection) it’s really Fantasyland. Even the one thing Don does right (telling Sally that he is Dick) is really more about the immutable past than it is about a better future.

The fact that Joan decided to keep the baby was a cop-out—out of character for a show that’s avoided melodramatic plot twists. However, fantastic bit of business with Joan’s “promotion”—same salary, more drudgework duties, but a fancy new title to boost that self-esteem and make her work even harder. The HR/4th Purpose workplace is developing apace, starting with the future VP of HR.

Agreed with Amanda on the rushed nature of the finale—a miscalculation on Weiner’s part. There was a much better episode lurking in there, and the audience could have ended the season serviced much better than by adding the preganancy plot twist.

The motif even shows up in the conversation about Disneyland—the much-debated Mr. Toad ride ends with Mr. Toad getting in a head-on collision with a train and literally ending up in Hell.

Heh. When I was I teenager in L.A. we did a couple of school trips to Disneyland—Mr. Toad was always a must-do that ranked with Space Mountain for me and my morbid friends precisely for that reason. It was the best “dark ride” in the park for the dark-minded.

Comment #15: Gracchus.  on  10/18  at  12:39 PM

I think you hit it, Amanda… there was a lot there, but they couldn’t unpack it. I wonder if they’d had one less Sad Drunk Don episode earlier in the season (let’s face it, it got a tad tedious), used the California trip as episode 12, and then resolved the fall-out at length in episode 13.

Ending things with the psychiatrist was too rushed, skipping emotional consequences for both of them.

I don’t understand where Sally’s at, emotionally, and this was really her season.

And, stuff not in the text? The pacing reminded me of the dreamlike quality of Don’s earlier California trip, except with a secretary instead of a real companion, with Disneyland instead of real princes and princesses. Spending more time to tease out him trying to reconnect with that earlier healing energy, it might have really grounded things and make his course correction a bit more understandable.

Comment #16: humanadverb  on  10/18  at  12:41 PM

I’m unconvinced about Joan and her not-bortion. The timeline is what’s giving me pause. GI Doc was away 8 weeks before Joan and Roger did the dirty hula, and we got the ‘it’s been 10 weeks since Lucky Strike fired us’ in the script, so Joan is apparently trying to sell her hubby a pregnancy almost halfway along. With no change in her figure? With no scenes of her puking (an essential teevee trope)? With her (despite her claims on the phone to the contrary) boobs not getting bigger?  Is it impossible that she’s just playing hubby along?

Of course, I’ve held out what turned out to be false hope about this show’s treatment of Peggy’s S1 weight-gain, about which I was sorely disappointed when finally revealed (and, to the show’s credit, turned out to be an interesting plot point rather than a tired cliche), so perhaps I’m fooling myself again.

I was touched and amused by the notion of Sally sending Glen postcards from Rye. Hee!

Comment #17: benvolio  on  10/18  at  12:53 PM

Speaking of rough-around-the-edges but still enjoyable Mad-Men stuff, this video has been making the rounds. Taken the right way, the lyrics of “Nature Boy” are as good a match as the rhythm to “A Beautiful Mine.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEj0z0maxzM

Comment #18: Gracchus.  on  10/18  at  12:54 PM

I think that Joan may have to face some consequences for her decision.  It won’t be fan service if Greg somehow discovers that he’s sterile.  Matt Weiner seems to love showing us the outcomes of our lies.

I really loved the scene in the kitchen between Betty and Don.  Beside the fact that it was beautifully lit, as so many scenes in this show are, it touched the childish part of me that really wishes they could have worked it out.  Now it is definitely not to be.  When Betty said, “It’s not perfect,” I thought she was talking about her marriage to Henry, and not the new house (which she was).  Betty was fixing her make-up before Don came in, because, as Tom and Lorenzo pointed out, she was putting out feelers to see if that particular fantasy was truly over and done with.  Yes, Betty, Don has found a new princess and you have got your ever after.

Comment #19: jackspratt  on  10/18  at  01:10 PM

Thanks for that Gracchus!  Of course now I feel like I need to go watch Moulin Rouge like, immediately, but that was beautifully done.

Comment #20: Mimi  on  10/18  at  01:16 PM

I had much the same reaction as you, Amanda, except that I agree with the commenter above that Joan is lying about being pregnant. She started mourning his death the minute he went to training; she doesn’t believe she’ll see him again.

Otherwise, yes, the episode was kind of emotionally blank. The only scenes that really rang true for me were Betty and Carla, and Joan and Peggy.

Comment #21: Froborr  on  10/18  at  01:39 PM

I couldn’t disagree with you more about Joan’s pregnancy.

This is a woman who is 36 years of age and who wants a baby.  All season I was left asking myself; what does Joan want?

Because Joan has spent her life cleaning up the messes men left her with.  Twice she became pregnant, and twice she had an abortion.

This woman wants a baby.  The idea that a 36 yo woman who wants a child would have a third abortion is to me, what is offensive.  Why should she?  To clean up Roger’s mess for him that’s why.

Well, fuck that, and I found this to be the feminist choice.

Comment #22: JennyLI  on  10/18  at  01:45 PM

I know that this is a very unpopular view, but I believe that Peggy is unhappy with Don’t news, in part, because Peggy is in love with Don.

Yes, men and women can be friends.

But she loves him, and the truth through my eyes is, that Don can’t love anybody.  That’s why I knew the thing with Faye would never last, that’s why nobody gives a shit about Megan as a characte,r because Don doesn’t give a shit about her.

But if Don were to grow and be able to love, it would be Peggy.  And that is the key relationship here and always has been.  And even though so many are just knee-jerk against it because for some reason they view it as a statement on whether men and women can be friends, if Don were ever to be redeemed it would be through his love for Peggy, but first, as cliche as it sounds, he’d have to love himself.

None of that probably will occur, and that will be the tragedy of Don Draper.  Peggy will be fine.

Comment #23: JennyLI  on  10/18  at  01:49 PM

That’s why it’s fan service and not good storytelling, Angl.  Giving Joan a baby just because she wants one?  That’s not the “Mad Men” I know. This show is about surviving and hard choices.  Let’s face it: they got the same cold feet that everyone gets about abortion.

It’s not the “feminism” of having the baby or not.  It’s about reality.  Of course it’s feminist to have a baby if you want.  But Joan is supposed to be a person, not a Goddess Of Feminism.  Having an abortion she didn’t want fits into her general pattern of having to clean up messes.  You know, like her “promotion”.  It was fucking the same cowardice you always see.  God forbid you see a TV character make the affirmative choice to have an abortion on screen.

Don’t worry.  I’m putting together a compilation of women running out of abortion clinics in TV and movies.  If you got all your information about abortion from TV, you’d believe they never actually turn the machine on, but instead sit around watching a parade of women come in, change their minds, and run out.

Comment #24: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  02:00 PM

Amanda I agree with you about abortion never being depicted on tv, and probably worse, the constant barrage of very young women, even teens, getting pregnant and keeping the baby.  I do have a big problem with that, and I will look forward to your column on it. 

I just found it to be realistic.  People do change.  She’s nearing 40 now, or close anyway.  You do get more balls as you get older.  At least, I did.  And I don’t think she really got what she wanted.  She wanted a white picket house, a doctor for a husband, not to work, and children.  Now, I think that her desire not to work is open to debate.  I thought it was great when Peggy laughed in her face last night when Joan said that’s why she always makes sure not to make that office her life.  ANd Joan laughed along with her.  So the idea that Joan would have been happy had she gotten everything she wanted is probably absurd, but that’s why people warn you about what you wish for. 

But now at the very least, what she wanted I would think, would have been a child with her husband.  Or maybe she wanted a child with Roger if he would marry her.  But what I thought I saw her working through, and I saw this because I have been exactly where she was, was whether she really wanted to marry Roger.  And an episode or two back she told him, I can’t do this any more.  She wasn’t talking about his Lucky Strike shit.  She was working through whether Roger was for her and whether he would ever be the man she once saw in him.  And she concluded that the answer was no.  And I thought that Hendricks did a great job of portraying all of that.  I saw it all on her face. 

So she never got the man or the marriage that she wanted, but she got the baby she wants.  Or thinks she wants.  I guess whether this wish coming true is ultimately a good thing for her or not, is something we’ll discover.

Comment #25: JennyLI  on  10/18  at  02:16 PM

I agree with @22. Joan “owns” this baby and her decision to keep it. She’s lying to two men in order to do so. This is about not cleaning up after either man and about making a decision solely for what she wants.

Next season will produce some interesting stuff about how Roger takes this and how Joan takes advantage of it.

Comment #26: LCforevah  on  10/18  at  02:22 PM

there’s actually a whole bunch of scenes in this episode that worked for me (Betty and Carla; Peggy and Joan; Glenn and Betty; Cosgrove turning out to be a real human (or actually, reminding us that he’s one. he’s shown before that the job as account man isn’t his whole life, when he got that story of his published); Faye’s reaction to Don), but they didn’t seem to gel very well into a coherently narrated episode.

Comment #27: jadehawk  on  10/18  at  02:39 PM

oh, and i don’t think this was the penultimate season. didn’t weiner make an announcement that they want to continue past next season if possible?

Comment #28: jadehawk  on  10/18  at  02:41 PM

@humanadverb:

the pacing reminded me of the dreamlike quality of Don’s earlier California trip

Right—I kept expecting that we were going to learn that the whole episode took place in Don’s mind, and that that was part of the reason why he had a much dopier grin than he normally does, and why the timelines were so choppy.  And also why there were so many trite symbols of rejuvenation and rebirth… which is what he _thinks_ he’s getting, but really it’s a giant leap back into the woman-as-fuckable-Mom fantasy, like he’s being made so young again it’s more of an infantilization.

Comment #29: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  02:41 PM

Can someone remind me what is the deal with Glenn The Creepy Neighbor Kid?  I only started watching this season.

Comment #30: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  02:44 PM

I guess in part they felt like it wasn’t too dishonest of them because they’d clearly shown that Joan had two abortions previously. She’s not someone for whom it was an “unthinkable” choice, nor is she shown in any way traumatized by or even regretting her previous ones. But regardless it’s a strange move for the show in a narrative sense, to conceal her choice in that way.

Comment #31: Dan Watson  on  10/18  at  02:45 PM

I agree with Amanda completely. The episode felt like it was using outtakes from its own ‘ruse reel’.

And, well, the wave function has collapsed regarding the quantum fetus, and the cat is alive in the box. If the belles lettres of our times were only experienced by reasonable sagacious adults, the arguments over the feminism of Joan’s choice would find resonance. If Joan were an actual living human being, then it would simply be her choice, end of story.

But the wave function collapsing in this fashion has brought down the other, more intrinsic quantum state the suspension of disbelief. Joan is a teeeveee character, and we are reminded of it rather sloppily because of the way this was handled. This was fan service, or it certainly felt that way. Why?

Because we still don’t know Joan’s motivations.

And while her secrets and her past—that unknown experience that makes her such a strong person overall—have been one of the sources of fascination with the character, she seems reduced to sudden two-dimensionality by the trope of “wanting a baby”. WHY does she want it, Matt.

That’s what would have made it drama.

Comment #32: Yamara  on  10/18  at  02:48 PM

oh, and one more thing: I’m not bothered by joan’s pregnancy. It makes sense for her to want a baby, even one conceived under less than optimal conditions. But if Weiner wanted Joan to have a baby, there would have been a million less cliche ways of going about this than an abortion fakeout. So, next season there better be a damn good reason for going with the abortion fakeout

Comment #33: jadehawk  on  10/18  at  03:06 PM

“God forbid you see a TV character make the affirmative choice to have an abortion on screen.”

I completely understand why Joan’s decision to not have an abortion (at the clinic no less) was disappointing in light of the general bravery/willingness to challenge the audience of the writers of Mad Men. I get that, but I fundamentally disagree with you, Amanda, about Joan. She has had two previous abortions and with no regret depicted. Like AnglScarlett, I have to echo that the abortion would be “cleaning up Roger’s mess” not making a choice in light of her wishes, desires and lets face it, ability to dupe Dr. Rapist. He was gone four weeks when she and Roger hooked up. She could have it induced two weeks early and call it two weeks overdue—easy, peasy. She expressed the desire to have a child when she visited the gyno and discussed her two previous “procedures.” This is what she wants and she’s put it off and she’s taking charge of her reproductive capacity/choices.

You said, “It’s not the “feminism” of having the baby or not.  It’s about reality.” This episode was not about reality, it was about the fantasy—Joan’s choices are not always about reality…she’s had affairs with married men, married Dr. Rapist after it was demonstrated that he was not the Dr. in shining white lab-coats, etc. All of the characters on Mad Men have at some point capitulated to fantasy over reality at some point. Joan’s choice to have the baby makes sense in her context.

So, I think that the main flaw in the argument against Joan’s abortion change of heart is based in the frustrating reality of TV plot lines involving abortion. You are right that TVland has us believe that the vast majority of women change their minds, especially in the clinics waiting rooms, and reality is not that at all. That is a major cultural flaw and needs to be taken to task. BUT, Mad Men has earned the right to work with the complexity of Joan’s decision (in light of all those factors) and come out with an AUTHENTIC decision to have the baby. I’m not holding Mad Men responsible for the bullshit, CW teen dramas where the pregnant teenager decides to keep the baby and then lucks in on a miscarriage. I think that your idea of posting videos of all those unrealistic, bullshit, sentimental, non-reality or character based abortion abortions will be a great read and I look forward to it, but I’m not going to deny the character of Joan her right to make the best decision for her.

Comment #34: Thealogian  on  10/18  at  03:08 PM

Perhaps next season will be the rise of Betty and the fall of Don.  Betty is at her lowest point and Don at his highest since the series began.  But that reversal would require January Jones to be given more than cameo roles.  Glen could appear in the kitchen of Betty’s new home to let us know that she’s no longer a monster—“Ms. Francis, you’ve come a long way since I said you hate children and are always unhappy.”

This season Don avoided once again any meaningful consequences from his real backstory despite it coming out to another person (Dr. Miller) and being harmful to the company (Pete having to kill that account).  The identity issue is not as central to the show as in past seasons, but it’s still there and the writers have passed the ultimate resolution on to another season—presumably Megan will find out from Don or Betty or Dr. Miller or Pete or one of the other fifty people that know the truth but don’t seem to care.  Maybe that issue will finally cause the Donfall (agonizing pun, but you know it will be used by professional writers if Draper comes apart next season).

Juxtaposition alert: the final scenes of this season and of season two both involved Betty and Don in the Ossining house’s kitchen.  In season two, Betty told Don she was pregnant with Baby Gene; now Don gets to make his own announcement about a new freshface on the scene (I’ve got you babe, indeed).

Comment #35: Froley  on  10/18  at  03:10 PM

I second Jadehawk’s comment to all the Abortion Fakeout apologists.

oh, and one more thing: I’m not bothered by joan’s pregnancy. It makes sense for her to want a baby, even one conceived under less than optimal conditions. But if Weiner wanted Joan to have a baby, there would have been a million less cliche ways of going about this than an abortion fakeout. So, next season there better be a damn good reason for going with the abortion fakeout

Quoted for emphasis.

Did anyone else notice Joan’s wry comment about Don not being the first man to marry his secretary? Remember that Roger married a secretary when Joan wouldn’t have him and he got divorced. Joan never wanted to be that woman that the older dude marries to more or less mount on his wall as some kind of trophy, but she did get passed over by someone who could have built a more meaningful life with her if he hadn’t been such a child. So… in a sense, Don is becoming Roger. If that’s the case, he may become every bit the vestigial parasite.

Comment #36: Cola82  on  10/18  at  03:11 PM

Don’t worry.  I’m putting together a compilation of women running out of abortion clinics in TV and movies.  If you got all your information about abortion from TV, you’d believe they never actually turn the machine on, but instead sit around watching a parade of women come in, change their minds, and run out.

This is so full of win, and makes lemonade out of every one of those scenes. Looking forward to it.

Heads up on a recent potential angle for blowbacks & counterattacks:

http://news.peacefmonline.com/social/201010/92708.php

Comment #37: Yamara  on  10/18  at  03:13 PM

Also, since we were all calling it Schrodinger’s Baby, I thought it was funny that there was a box on the table in the very next scene and Betty pulls a cup out of it so that she and Don can share a drink.

Maybe it’s just me, but I thought that was kind of convenient/neat.

Comment #38: Cola82  on  10/18  at  03:14 PM

That’s a great link, Yamara. I can’t wait for the backlash against abortion on this.

Of course, if abortion wasn’t legal, I’m sure he would have just killed her when he found out. Progress!?

Comment #39: Cola82  on  10/18  at  03:17 PM

I’ve enjoyed reading your critical analysis of Mad Men this season, Amanda.  This is my first time commenting.  I also follow TWOP, and that community’s largely uncritical commentary on the show is what led me to seek out a more thoughtful space like yours. 

While I feel that it fits the story that Joan kept her pregnancy (others have already explained it better than me), it does bother me that all the uncritical viewers of the show are now doing a celebration dance.  Joan may have had very nuanced reasons for choosing not to abort her third pregnancy, and we as critical viewers might understand them, but to the masses who simply consume this show as a glossy costume-fest of beautiful people and period delight, all subtlety will be lost on them.

However, I feel that MW has always angled the story towards those of us who are receptive to the deeper issues at play, especially the social implications of characters’ actions.  It just makes me fume a little that all the “YAY JOANIE KEPT HER BAYYBEEEE!” people get a victory and reinforce the TV trope that so disgusts feminists.

(Don’t forget that Claire from Six Feet Under went through with her abortion.  She had some realistic doubts and emotions as time wore on, but ultimately it didn’t cripple her life or serve as some moralistic teaching point.)

Comment #40: autodidact  on  10/18  at  03:24 PM

Joan may not have gone through with the abortion—although I think it’s still nebulous—but I wouldn’t be confident that she is going to give birth.

Comment #41: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  03:27 PM

autodidact @40:
It just makes me fume a little that all the “YAY JOANIE KEPT HER BAYYBEEEE!” people get a victory and reinforce the TV trope that so disgusts feminists.

Oh, it’s the bothering feminists that causes the glee in anti-choicers, not so much the story. That’s the “why” behind all that.

But the only reason we have for Joan keeping her baby is she visited an abortion clinic. “I’ll take care of it.” This is a trope, and fan service.

If we had been given any other reason, it wouldn’t have been such a trope. If it had been presented in such a fashion to give clear insight into Joan’s character, it would have been a reveal, however small; without it, it’s showing the character off for a popular expectation alone, and that is fan service.

We learn nothing about Joan. All we learn is that many of her fans want her to make babies.

Comment #42: Yamara  on  10/18  at  03:46 PM

yes, yes, a thousand times yes, Amanda! Mostly crappy finale.

The best scene was the Joan and Peggy joined in cynicism: the Megan character isn’t a recognizable women, but a one-dimensional paper doll.

And although I know next to nothing about acting, it still strikes me that the actress can’t act, which means I’m pissed that we, as well as Peggy, will be stuck with Megan next season, too.

Joan’s non-abortion scene, seemed tacked on, so maybe it was last-minute fan fodder.

The episode would have sucked as a mid-season episode, as a finale it excelled in suck-dom.

Comment #43: judybrowni  on  10/18  at  03:53 PM

@ Yamara:  I dunno, though.  I’m still a newbie to the show, but my sense of Joan is that she’s not prone to big revelations about her reasons for things, and to me it seems like the show is being true to her fairly well-established reticence, caginess, and laconic or silent knowingness.  It feels important to me that they didn’t actually dramatize the moment at which she told her husband anything, and even for us in the audience we first got a snide remark about Don’s moony expression and then got surprised with the pregnancy talk—which was also juxtaposed to a different level of “fan service,” a nudge-and-wink to Christina Hendricks’s voluptuousness.  I think that they haven’t played it nearly as straightforwardly as they could have, and that seems significant, either to upcoming plot developments or to the overriding themes of the show relating to peddling and commodifying fantasies.

Comment #44: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  03:59 PM

Betty is at her lowest point and Don at his highest since the series began.

I don’t see Don as being at a “high point” at all.  I agree with Amanda’s and the other posters’ read on the situation that Don is seriously deluding himself.

Don’s one big idea happened before the season even began and it’s clear he’s lost his visionary touch.  He’s at a career low, reduced to celebrating winning “a meeting to have a meeting” or some such from the ACS while his company is bleeding business and hasn’t brought in a new client in 10 weeks—a streak that would’ve continued had Peggy not stepped up BIG TIME, recognizing an opportunity and then working through a holiday to score an account while Don is off in California seducing another secretary.

Speaking of, what a mess he’s made of his love life.  The supposed whirlwind romance is an obvious just a retreat into familiar territory, Megan being a younger version of Betty.  Someone pretty to take care of the kids and stroke his ego.  Faye actually challenged him to improve himself.  Megan is content to validate Don’s fantasy of himself as Good Person.  Faye demanded respect from Don.  Megan has always been nothing but deferential.

In the end, Don ends up just as restless as he started.  The final shot of him lying awake in bed staring out the window, already dreaming of escaping the trap he’s created for himself confirms this for me.

Comment #45: robelanator  on  10/18  at  04:01 PM

@judybrowni:  the Megan character isn’t a recognizable women, but a one-dimensional paper doll.

The character has said that she did some acting, which came back up again this week.  I think she’s supposed to be playing to the hilt a kind of nurturing maternal/childlike, doe/colt feminine ideal—which Faye kept refusing to do—and thus her apparent one-dimensional-ness is part of the role-playing she’s doing.  My sense is that she’s using her performance skill to climb the ladder from being Allison 2.0 to something more like Betty 2.0.  IMHO she’s crafty, not romantic.  But we’ll see how it plays…

Comment #46: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  04:06 PM

@ robelanator, I think we’re on the same wavelength—your post crossed with mine in the aether.

Comment #47: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  04:07 PM

The last scene between Betty and Don was also confusing

It seemed pretty straight forward to me.  They were reenacting their marriage.  Or, perhaps more accurately, officiating the divorce.  Standing in an empty house, they shared a final cup of booze before going their separate ways.  This is the end of Don and Betty, as they both declare themselves as moved on.

As for the fake punt abortion - eh.  Joan has already had two abortions.  Peggy has already silently given up a baby.  Now Joan is entering the official hierarchy of the ad agency, and I think they want to make a full blown working mother out of her.  I don’t think they did the fake abortion to dismiss abortion.  I think they did it to set up the conflict between Sterling and her husband and to explore the idea of the working mother.  A third abortion would have been just that.  Abortion number who cares.

In a real world, it’s true that 99% of women probably don’t back out at the last minute.  But in the real world, you’re not always trying to set up drama for the next season.  Would have been nice if they’d executed a “clean and happy” abortion on camera, rather than just hinting at it from the sidelines.  But asking for it at this certain stage of the story arc seems like you’re asking for too much.  They wouldn’t have had her get pregnant in a fling with Sterling just as they did, if they were going to have her just throw this plot hook away.  :-p

Comment #48: Zifnab25  on  10/18  at  04:19 PM

I was disappointed overall but pleased by two (minor) things: 1) we saw no full length shots of Megan in the bikini.  2) Megan knew about and acknowledged Don’s relationship with Faye, and was reasonably supportive to him about ending it. Those two things made her a little less Barbie-ish. But only a little.

Comment #49: kajey  on  10/18  at  04:24 PM

@ robelanator: 

Megan has always been nothing but deferential.

Except for being sexually assertive.  I think we’re being told that she play-acts deference to make it look like she isn’t being aggressively independent… but she is.  She’s using sexuality and nurturing as an adjunct for her ambition.  I think that was the point of the “they’ll probably make her a copywriter” bit between Joan and Peggy.  And I did really like the way the whole show treated Peggy’s professional triumph as an anticlimax, when as Joan pointed out, what could be more conventional and less climactic than a been there, done that boss-secretary marriage?

Comment #50: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  04:37 PM

“I don’t see Don as being at a ‘high point’ at all.  I agree with Amanda’s and the other posters’ read on the situation that Don is seriously deluding himself.”

I should have been more clear - I’m not saying that’s the reality (it’s clear that Don is on a cliff), but I think it’s the highest point for Don in his view of things.  In his mind he now has the perfect companion (he gets Betty v.2), has the work situation sorted out (even though he had absolutely nothing to do with getting the Topaz account), has his drinking relatively under control and the Dick Whitman thing still hasn’t bit him in the ass (he rewarded Pete’s falling on the sword by covering Pete’s share of the emergency partnership funds).  He goes into next season with a new wife, sober and probably head of the firm (Bert’s left and Roger is a shell without Lucky Strike).  I took the scene of him looking out the window as him saying “I have everything under control now.”  The hard fall is going to come.

As for Betty, she thinks everyone is against her (including Sally and Carla), has a husband who doesn’t take her side, and now her ex has told her he’s marrying his secretary.  Reality keeps punching her in the stomach.  I think she is going to punch back, grow up and take charge of her life (instead of whining to her series of daddy figures).

Comment #51: Froley  on  10/18  at  04:59 PM

I agree with Mnemosyne about Joan….I was not surprised by her not having the abortion nor did I have that pit in my stomach that another tv show bailing out on abortion.  I think this was a deliberate point that she is of the mindset that her childbearing years are passing and this is the last chance.

And it will make an interesting story in that it is Roger’s kid and her husband will not be coming back from Vietnam (likely) and Joan will be a single mother.

Comment #52: Suze  on  10/18  at  05:03 PM

If Joan does have the baby, I will consider it service to ME if it pops out with Slattery’s silver hair. wink

Comment #53: benvolio  on  10/18  at  05:22 PM

Megan = Doris Day, Paula Prentiss, and all those other fantasy objects that had no other role in any movie except to snag the husband. What a difference from Barbara Stanwyck, Hedy Lamarr, Joan Crawford, Katherine Hepburn, etc Actresses from a previous era who took on/were given roles with some meat and personality—like Faye.

Comment #54: LCforevah  on  10/18  at  05:27 PM

I am going to stay hopeful about next season and play like this last episode was a genius tactical move and that Don was just getting to freaked out by his new “self” discovery and one look at Megan holding the baby and being just too wonderful and calm with the kidlets he just panicked and wanted his fairytale life back…And he most likely will start doing great work now that has his picture perfect life established. But he will crash…I predict that him and Betty will be so miserable by next season that they get together briefly.

Comment #55: Suze  on  10/18  at  05:46 PM

She has had two previous abortions and with no regret depicted.

That’s a standard part of the cliche, I discovered as I did the research.  Every show who does the abortion fakeout makes sure you know they are so pro-choice….enough to reference past abortions or suggest it’s a fine option for someone not onscreen.

But make a character choose it during the course of the show?

Hell no.  They don’t want to get letters.

Comment #56: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  05:46 PM

@ LCforevah:

Megan = Doris Day, Paula Prentiss, and all those other fantasy objects that had no other role in any movie except to snag the husband.

Do you think that Matthew Weiner is slotting her that as that kind of fantasy object, or that Weiner is showing her slotting herself as that kind of fantasy object?

Comment #57: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  05:50 PM

Now Joan is entering the official hierarchy of the ad agency, and I think they want to make a full blown working mother out of her.

Which might be something of an anachronism.  In workplaces like theirs, a pregnancy equaled a pink slip.

Comment #58: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  05:55 PM

Megan is absolutely supposed to be a fantasy object, a blank slate.  I hope that interpretation came across in my recap.  It struck me as so obvious as to be an anvil.  But now I’m seeing men all over the place say, hey she’s great!  She is just like Peggy. 

And every time they do it, they hurt the truly smart girls like Don hurt Peggy.

Comment #59: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  06:00 PM

I think she’s supposed to be playing to the hilt a kind of nurturing maternal/childlike, doe/colt feminine ideal—which Faye kept refusing to do—and thus her apparent one-dimensional-ness is part of the role-playing she’s doing.

I got a vibe from her earlier in the season that she might be a lesbian or bisexual because there seemed to be a little flirtation between her and Joyce.  That made me a little suspicious of her old college friend, especially since Megan made a point of claiming that her friend is jealous because she had a crush on Megan’s dad.  It would be interesting if they went in that direction—not only is Don deluded about what she wants, he’s deluded about who she really is.

Comment #60: Mnemosyne  on  10/18  at  06:04 PM

Joan’s decision is fairy tale fan-service, so given the show’s take on such childish nonsense, it has to blow up in her face.  How do they handle maternity leave back then; you quit or get fired, right?  So Joan will lose her job, but there’s no way that Dr. Rapey is going to buy that it’s his baby.  So she will lose him either to the war, or to divorce.  Then what?  This situation is going to show that the abortion was the best option, and fans are still invested in unrealistic happy endings.  Will that baby make her happy when she’s divorced and unemployed, or back to being a lowly secretary?

Comment #61: bluetara  on  10/18  at  06:13 PM

It would be really weird if they just up and decided to ignore the mores around pregnant women in white collar workplaces, i.e. automatically fired.  It’s a small company and Joan is well-liked, but still.  Those thick-skulled men she works with aren’t the types to suddenly buck something that was treated as automatic.

Comment #62: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  06:17 PM

I got a vibe from her earlier in the season that she might be a lesbian or bisexual because there seemed to be a little flirtation between her and Joyce.

I remember that too but it hadn’t occurred to me that it could be significant when she popped up with her “college friend.”  But I really do feel like Megan is fairly openly trying to do what Peggy got so offended when Allison suggested _she_ had done the same:  sleep with the boss to make the leap from clerical work to “creative.”  And she might prove to be _good_ at the creative side, given that she’s managed to sell Don on the fantasy of herself. 

On the other hand, both Peggy and Faye are much more scrupulous about keeping sex and work separate.  And Joan has learned about that too.  Only she’s IMHO the one who has decided that success at work isn’t fulfilling either, at least for women:  women get faux rewards and additional responsibilities, picking up the slack men leave.

Comment #63: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  06:17 PM

It would be really weird if they just up and decided to ignore the mores around pregnant women in white collar workplaces, i.e. automatically fired.

Wow.  Given that the partners—or at least Don and Roger—are war vets, would they really turn out a pregnant woman whose husband was either off to war or killed in action?

Comment #64: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  06:20 PM

@64

Not to mention that Roger is going to figure out pretty quickly that its his kid.

Comment #65: clever screen name  on  10/18  at  06:24 PM

@ 65:  That’s partly why I think Joan really did get the abortion and is messing with her husband, telling him she’s pregnant (and even curvier) because those are _his_ (sexual and nurturing) fantasies.  Whatever keeps him going.  She can always pretend she had a miscarriage.  As Amanda points out, that’s the usual plot device, and it seems like it’d be totally in keeping with the show to have characters rehearsing or citing a Hollywood trope like that.

Comment #66: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  06:32 PM

That’s what was done back then.  If they don’t show massive fallout, then the theory that this was another example of a character living a fantasy will have been disproved, and it really will have just been fan service/fear of addressing abortion directly.

Comment #67: Amanda Marcotte  on  10/18  at  06:33 PM

If memory serves, Betty Friedan got unpaid pregnancy leave from some sort of union newsservice with the first of her kids, but somewhere around the second or third pregnancy they canned her ass.

Joan is rather too integral in SCDP to fire, at the moment.

If she were clerical help, sure, she’d be disappeared and no one would think twice about it.

We’ve never yet seen a pregnant gal in the steno pool, for several reasons.

For one, it was expected that a girl quit and stay home with her children, some didn’t of course for financial or other reasons, but that was the expectation.

Career gals were often, like Faye, expected to make that choice: work or children.

College-educated women were expected to choose to be teachers so they could keep the same hours as their chldren.

Comment #68: judybrowni  on  10/18  at  06:38 PM

(Or in the case of my friends’ mothers: school nurse.)

Comment #69: judybrowni  on  10/18  at  06:43 PM

@ Amanda/67:  If I try to think about it in a misogynist way, I can imagine firing a pregnant woman who has a husband at home (he’ll take care of her) or who is unmarried (horrors! scandalous!).  But firing a pregnant woman whose husband is in Vietnam… or firing a pregnant widow… surely even the biggest douchebag in the world wouldn’t do that… right?  I hope?  Please?  raspberry

Comment #70: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  06:49 PM

The men who are saying that Megan is great and DOn fell in love are pretty juvenille.  I saw it all over the AV Club this morning.  One guy kept insisting that Don didn’t dump Faye because she knew him too well, that in fact Faye did not know Don well and if she had, she would have leapt at his suggestion that she get him a meeting with Heinz.

I told him to shut the fuck up.  I guess I should go back and see what happened.

But I’ll tell you this - they’ve never been in love.

Comment #71: JennyLI  on  10/18  at  06:52 PM

@FlipYrWhig Given that Roger is a veteran, you’d expect him to be respectful to someone who lost a leg in combat, right?

Comment #72: JilliefromChile  on  10/18  at  06:52 PM

Wow, what a great review!  I enjoyed the finale, but I see your point.  As soon as Megan was going to California, we knew the choice was Megan, not Faye.  When the ring popped up, we knew the end of the episode and just had to wait for the axe to drop.  (btw, the ring bequeathment stuck out like a sore thumb.  Why on EARTH would Anna leave her wedding ring to Don?  That’s just weird.)  While this episode was not well executed, now that we know the finale, I do appreciate how MW built up to this all season.  Sally’s visit to the office and the Background check-near disaster were both just plot devices to set up the Faye/Megan choice point. Your points about Betty, though, are well taken.  They did a horrible job with her this year; I only hope it is part of a long term strategy as well.  LOVED your comment that Betty is Megan in Italian!!  P.S.  Betty was happiest when she had that brief modeling job (which ended b/c her employer was only courting Don, and Betty had to pretend that she preferred to leave the job to focus on her family)—and Betty commented this season that “Don has everything”—but the only thing Don had this season was his freedom, and most conventional views would be that Betty had everything.  I think Betty is bitter b/c she isn’t living the life she wants—she’s living the life she’s supposed to want (which is a longstanding theme of this show.)

Comment #73: jlm312  on  10/18  at  07:01 PM

@JilliefromChile:  True… but the idea of firing Joan for being pregnant, especially when Roger did it?  That’s just _so_ _cold_.  But I guess in the days before family and medical leave, it was routine:  can’t do the job, don’t get paid anymore.  The war element is the only complicating factor I’m struggling with.

Comment #74: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  07:03 PM

I think FlipYrWhig at 66 is on to something. As someone else pointed out, Joan’s not been shown sick or showing yet. While it’s true that showing such things would be rather pedestrian and obvious, I can’t imagine them ...forgetting to make Joan look at least a bit different. What I can’t figure out is why Joan would lie to Greg, unless, like someone said, she’s not expecting to see him again and is allowing him to imagine a reason for her boobs to be even bigger. *rolls eyes*

Comment #75: annejumps  on  10/18  at  07:16 PM

I don’t have a screen cap, but on another site, commenters claim to have noticed a baby bump on Joan as she was pushing the mail cart.

Comment #76: judybrowni  on  10/18  at  07:27 PM

Thx, annejumps.  Another puzzle piece I’m struggling to fit is why it would be Anna’s engagement ring.  Is that supposed to represent a trace of the _real_ “real Don Draper”?  As opposed to the real feelings of the fake Don Draper—which may be not-so-real anyway, considering how they’re enmeshed in some sunny California fantasy, one that has overwritten the sunny-but-seedy California reality of “Dick and Anna ‘64”?  (I kind of want that ring to be like a haunted artifact out of a Poe story, but this isn’t really the genre for that.)

Comment #77: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  07:30 PM

@ judybrowni:  She had a bit of a protruding belly in that scene, but IIRC they don’t tend to photograph Joan from that angle (they favor a shot that features a breast in a sort of three-quarters view) so I couldn’t be sure she looked different than she normally did.  And near the end, when talking to her husband, didn’t she say she wasn’t showing yet?

Comment #78: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  07:35 PM

the ring bequeathment stuck out like a sore thumb.  Why on EARTH would Anna leave her wedding ring to Don?  That’s just weird.

It is weird, but it’s probably less weird coming from Anna.  This is a woman who not only allowed another man to continue to assume her dead husband’s identity after she’d discovered him, but actually maintained an intimate, long-term friendship with him.  She never remarried or had any children of her own; she could have given it to another family member of course, but if anyone on the show would have made that kind of gift to Don, it would be Anna.

Comment #79: Linnaeus  on  10/18  at  07:50 PM

I’m probably the only person left who still defends Betty, or the portrayal of Betty.  Obviously, actual Betty is a monster, but I think the show has done a bang-up job of getting her character to this place.  She’s the end result of a system where women’s only value is metaphoric baton-twirling.  Once the crown has been placed on your head and life keeps going on, then what?  Betty shucked one crown for another and found that she’s not getting different results.  When she crawled into Sally’s bed, I was actually touched.

I defend her, too.

In that scene, she’s the scary Barbie that reappeared on Sally’s bed.  But she’s a sad Barbie.

So, what novel was Don reading in bed in his hotel room?
Comment #1: smally on 10/18 at 10:39 AM

It was “The Spy Who Came In From The Cold.”  Wikipedia says of it:

At its publication during the Cold War (1945–91), the psychological realism of The Spy Who Came in From the Cold (1963) rendered it a revolutionary espionage novel by showing that the intelligence services of both the Eastern and Western nations practiced the same expedient amorality in the name of national security. Until then, the Western public imagined their secret services as promoters of democracy and democratic values; a view principally espoused in the popular James Bond thriller novels — romantic high adventures about what a Secret Service should be. John le Carré, on the other hand, shocked readers with chilling realism and detail, portraying the spy as a morally burnt-out case….Time magazine, while including The Spy Who Came in From the Cold in its top 100 novels list, stated the novel is “a sad, sympathetic portrait of a man who has lived by lies and subterfuge for so long, he’s forgotten how to tell the truth.”

Speaking of, what a mess he’s made of his love life.  The supposed whirlwind romance is an obvious just a retreat into familiar territory, Megan being a younger version of Betty.  Someone pretty to take care of the kids and stroke his ego.  Faye actually challenged him to improve himself.  Megan is content to validate Don’s fantasy of himself as Good Person.  Faye demanded respect from Don.  Megan has always been nothing but deferential.
Comment #45: robelanator on 10/18 at 03:01 PM

Don doesn’t even know why he finds Megan so captivating!  Virginia Woolf had it nailed when she said, ““Women have served all these centuries as looking glasses possessing in the magic and delicious power of reflecting the figure of man at twice its natural size.”  And without his warts, one may add.

Comment #80: oldfeminist  on  10/18  at  08:08 PM

Just FYI regarding maternity leave: I had a baby in 2004 and had NO maternity leave.  I had “disability leave” that was limited to one week per year of service at that particular employer (which for me was one week).  And that place was…a college. Supposedly the most liberal bastions in the country. So I have no problem believing that they would fire Joan in 1965. Schoolteachers were also routinely fired for getting married or pregnant in the days before and early days of unionization (which is right around this time—late 1960’s)—can’t have the children around a non-virgin was the thinking (that and the control thing). Ruth Bader Ginsberg famously hid her pregnancy when she was a professor at Rutgers in the late 60’s.  I’ve talked to several women who were teaching at the college level at that time who saw colleagues fired or felt they had to conceal their pregnancies. So it was a big problem then and in some workplaces it still is.

Comment #81: kajey  on  10/18  at  08:46 PM

@ kajey:  Thx for information.  I really meant that the special circumstances on the show of a pregnant woman with a husband at war might trump the usual ways of handling pregnant women in the workplace.  But every reminder that these things are in no way historical curiosities but, rather, ongoing political issues, is both poignant and alarming.

Comment #82: FlipYrWhig  on  10/18  at  08:57 PM

Ironically, my grandmother was treated better as a pregnant working mother in the late 1930s-early 1940s than women were in the post-war 1950s and beyond.  She was the postmistress of her town and she kept going until after the birth of her fourth child, when she quit voluntarily on her doctor’s advice.

Frankly, I think Joan would be fired no matter what—yes, even if she told Roger it was his child.  The company wouldn’t be able to hold up over the “scandal.”

Comment #83: Mnemosyne  on  10/18  at  09:58 PM

In this article posted late last night, Weiner says:

Q.
I don’t suppose you’ll want to answer this, but there’s been a lot of speculation about whether Joan Harris, Christina Hendricks’s character, actually went through with the abortion.
A.
You have to watch the show. I’ll have this conversation with you again in a week, but you have to watch the show. Christina’s a great actress, that’s all I can say. Whether you read that she did do it or didn’t do it, you feel the strength of someone who’s made a decision.

Comment #84: annejumps  on  10/18  at  10:24 PM

Why on EARTH would Anna leave her wedding ring to Don?

Anna knew, just like Faye knew, that Don/Dick is the kind of guy who has to be married. And Anna knew, like the audience knew, that he’s not going to marry someone who’ll call him on his BS and know his secrets. Anna was kind and wanted him to happy, but she wasn’t a fool as to who would get that engagement ring.

Watch the sequence where Don dumps Faye. He wants a woman who’ll be impressed by his wall of ads and industry awards, not someone like Faye with all the diplomas on her wall.

Also, in that final sequence, we get a last look at those window shades that have been semaphoring to us all season: half open, but now oddly “backwards,” from the bottom up.

Comment #85: Gracchus.  on  10/18  at  11:04 PM

Over all, I thought it was a pretty disappointing episode, thought I admit that I’d rather see Don as a conventional hero than an anti-hero.  Amanda is certainly right that it was very choppy and that they tried to cram in way too much.  The way they telegraphed Don’s marriage proposal by his acquiring Anna’s ring was astonishingly heavy-handed for a show that’s usually a lot more subtle.

Don’s not the most self-aware guy in the world, but given his history of keeping people at arms length the whole zero-to-marriage proposal in a week (or less?) seemed somewhat uncharacteristic, especially given how cynical he is in general.  Not the sleeping around part, of course, this is Don, but actually getting engaged—- everyone in the office rightly seemed a little shocked in a way that no one was with Roger and Jane.  I also thought the whole subplot of firing Carla in order to setup Don and Megan’s fun happy California times was somewhat forced and implausible—- knowing Betty’s odd feelings about Glen, wouldn’t have Carla have just called Sally downstairs instead of letting Glen go upstairs?

I join with those upthread in rooting for next season of MM to become “The Peggy show” or even “The Peggy, Pete, Joan, Ken, and Stan show”.  (There also needs to be an episode explaining why exactly Harry Crane has turned into such a douche.)

Comment #86: topometropolis  on  10/19  at  12:12 AM

Joan didn’t say she wasn’t showing (or that she was).  He said the picture he has of her doesn’t change.

However, when the call is over, she doesn’t touch her belly, she rubs her right wrist and hand.  She’s got a notepad, and pen or pencil.

Comment #87: oldfeminist  on  10/19  at  12:18 AM

However, when the call is over, she doesn’t touch her belly, she rubs her right wrist and hand.  She’s got a notepad, and pen or pencil.

Hmm.  I didn’t notice that, and it’s interesting.  But I can’t nail it down.  Suggesting that she had worked out what to tell him?  A script to follow?  (I do that when I have to make important phone calls.)

Comment #88: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  12:35 AM

There will be no “scandal” of Joan carrying Roger’s baby: it wouldn’t be something that would ever be discussed in those days, outside of a private conversation between Roger and Joan.

Roger can’t make it public, not unless he wants a very, very expensive divorce from Jane (adultery being the only grounds for divorce in New York State, and in wealthy households, women were given the house and a nice chunk of whatever available, as well as alimony.)

Joan certainly won’t make it public, there’s no DNA testing—at best, a blood test might rule a father out, even if Greg ever knew to ask for one.

Comment #89: judybrowni  on  10/19  at  01:39 AM

“I got you babe” = Groundhog Day. Don keeps making the same mistakes over and over again.

Comment #90: Roxanne  on  10/19  at  01:41 AM

People do get married for reasons other than deep spiritual connection all the time, just throwing that out there.  It’s not even wrong.  The fact the Megan doesn’t know who he really is will obviously be just as big a problem as it was with Betty, but at the same time it became clear he’d be forced to reconcile all of that not on his own terms with Faye.  If a person wants to marry a pushover rather than a non-pushover, a person actually is entitled to do that.  And being good with kids and happy to help with them is not exactly an illegitimate criteria in a spouse for a divorcee with three of them.  I’m not saying we should like this decision, or that Megan isn’t a paper doll, but the more I think about it, the more it seem like a pretty realistic choice for a man in his situation in that era, even leaving aside his particular basket of personal issues, to make.  (I suppose that’s actually one of the things about it that likely most rankles around here, isn’t it?)

Comment #91: MDrew  on  10/19  at  02:01 AM

@90 - LOL, that’s awesome!

General reaction: that whole Don/Megan storyline exceeded even my worst expectations. Just so… disappointing.

To get a little meta re: Joan’s pregnancy - Christina Hendricks is married now, and has been talking publicly about children; I could see this whole thing as just preparation for the potentiality of her being actually pregnant when they start filming Season 5.

Comment #92: Geocrackr  on  10/19  at  03:18 AM

the more I think about it, the more it seem like a pretty realistic choice for a man in his situation in that era, even leaving aside his particular basket of personal issues, to make.

No shit, Sherlock.  Why do you think Peggy and Joan had that conversation in the office?  Because an executive marrying his secretary is so shocking and unusual?

I’ll respond to your mansplaining with some chicksplaining of my own:

Yeah yeah yeah, Don is allowed to marry anyone he wants.  No one is going to call the police on his relationship with Megan.  We are critical because Megan is so obviously portraying herself as the perfect fantasy and Don is so predictably falling for it.  Of course he does.  She’s beautiful, speaks French, is smart, has vague and non-threatening ambitions, loves kids.  She’s everything Don thinks he wants and no one is surprised that he wants to marry her.

But us grown ups know that true relationships that are fulfilling and lasting involve more than fantasy.  They require us to make ourselves vulnerable to each other, to trust each other, and to make each other partners in their lives.  Do you see Don and Megan able to forge a partnership that is any more successful and fulfilling than the partnership between Don and Betty, or Roger and Jane?

Comment #93: Denise  on  10/19  at  04:37 AM

Right, but I’m saying for a dude in that spot at that time, a marriage not based on a “true relationship” might have been a pretty typical and sensible choice.  Don’s not quite honest enough to say that to himself, but it’s quite possible it’s the level he’s actually operating on.  In some ways it’s a romantic ideal of sorts that you are holding up, whereas Don could be said to be acting pragmatically (though it;s certainly also possible to argue he’s acting out of romance as well).  But the point is, a fulfilling partnership isn’t necessarily the point here, at least from Don’s perspective, so making that the standard may be immaterial.  Or not.  And the definition of success would entirely depend on how we understand the nature of the endeavor.  Do I see this being a success, on whatever terms, or fulfilling?  Of course not - this is Don Draper we’re talking about!  I’m just saying that how we look at a good relationship is certainly not the way a divorced guy with three kids in 1965 necessarily would.

Comment #94: MDrew  on  10/19  at  04:54 AM

The only other thing would be:

She’s beautiful, speaks French, is smart, has vague and non-threatening ambitions, loves kids.

That’s your quote.  Those are real things about her (in the story).  How is it fantasy?  If that’s what’s ultimately important to him at this time (and I’m not sure it really is, but if it is), then who are we to judge, really?  Faye has every right to be pissed, but it seems to me everyone else ought to just wish him well.  Not that they can’t note what a cliched choice it is.  But that’s different from outright disapproval or criticism.

Comment #95: MDrew  on  10/19  at  05:01 AM

The Peggy and Joan moment was awesome. I detested Season One Joan, and it’s absolutely wonderful to see how far she’s come from being the number one cheerleader for “play your cards right and you’ll get some man to notice you shaking your moneymaker at him and buy you a country house.

I don’t feel as badly as I might about the non-abortion, because they established that Joan has used the option when she really wanted to, with no lasting ill effects. She just didn’t want to THIS time.

Comment #96: ttintagel  on  10/19  at  10:00 AM

I’m saying for a dude in that spot at that time, a marriage not based on a “true relationship” might have been a pretty typical and sensible choice.

Oh, let’s face it, it’s still a pretty typical and “sensible” choice for a lot of men, generally leading to the same results. But to claim that the basket of personal issues is beside the point, then or now, is ridiculous—the only difference is that the culture of 1965 enabled those personal issues a lot more than our current one does.

it seems to me everyone else ought to just wish him well.  Not that they can’t note what a cliched choice it is.  But that’s different from outright disapproval or criticism.

Joan reacts with cynicism. Peggy, though, is clearly sick of the BS, not the least because she’s been put in the awkward position of having to approve Don’s choice in the role his only real friend (who still doesn’t know his major secret, btw).

Comment #97: Gracchus.  on  10/19  at  10:09 AM

Roger can’t make it public, not unless he wants a very, very expensive divorce from Jane (adultery being the only grounds for divorce in New York State, and in wealthy households, women were given the house and a nice chunk of whatever available, as well as alimony.)

Roger in his most rational state definitely would want the secret kept. But the first thing my sister said to me after the show was, “Roger’s going to get really drunk one day and not be able to keep his mouth shut, isn’t he?” I also remember the first time Roger met Greg, and couldn’t resist a minor pissing contest with his remark about Joan not liking French food. Knowing Roger’s flaws as she does, I think Joan must have really wanted that baby if she was prepared to put up with the inevitable grief he’ll give her over it.

I thought the moment with the mother in the abortion clinic was what was supposed to show us that she, at an age not far from when other women might be anticipating grandmotherhood, might be looking at her last chance (especially if her husband’s life is in danger). However, the same moment could have taken place in the OB’s waiting room.

Comment #98: ttintagel  on  10/19  at  10:51 AM

People do get married for reasons other than deep spiritual connection all the time, just throwing that out there.  It’s not even wrong.

Morally wrong?  No.  It’s “wrong” in the sense that it’s a really stupid thing to do that’s inevitably going to end badly, just like his first marriage.  It’s the wrong thing for Don to do.

Sure, you can wish real real hard that this time it’s going to work out, but that’s not exactly what you want to be building an adult relationship on.

Comment #99: Mnemosyne  on  10/19  at  11:46 AM

On any other show, I’d agree that Joan not going through with the abortion was fan service or else a desire not to “get letters.”  Not here.  I think Weiner and company don’t for one second fear getting letters from people who don’t watch the show…I haven’t done a demographic analysis, but I have a very strong feeling the culture-warrior anti-choice people don’t watch this show in very significant numbers and Weiner knows it.  Further, even if some people who watch the show wouldn’t like that Joan got (another) abortion, I don’t think they’d stop watching over that, or that Weiner or anyone writing and making plot decisions on the show really would really care if they did.  This is not Grey’s Anatomy or How I Met Your Mother, it need not sustain nearly as large a viewer and advertising base to be relevant or successful, and I don’t buy the moral cowardice charge against Weiner and company without a lot more evidence.

What they’ve done in my view is something far more subtle and subversive: they’ve shown the cliche of a woman going into the clinic and changing her mind…and they have, to my mind, been pretty unambivalent (without spoon feeding it to us) that she made the wrong decision and that having the baby will be anything but a good thing.  The decision was a product of Joan’s delusion that a child will make her happy or is what she “should” do, and it will cause untold problems and hardship should the (abusive) husband find out it’s not his.  In fact, there’ll be problems even if he doesn’t.  For that matter, there will of necessity be numerous problems once the middle-aged washed-up cad who is actually the father of the baby finds out she kept it…which he surely will.  And I have a feeling the baby will be far more of a burden than a delight for poor Joan, who we have seen numerous times only find true fulfillment in her work.

In other words, this is not the abortion cop-out at all: it may not be spelled out chapter and verse for the dullards and the Teabaggers (to the extent those groups don’t overlap), but in the end I think the series will make it clear that everyone would have been better off if Joan had just gone ahead with the abortion.  Or to put it another way, they are taking the right-wing anti-choice canard that “choosing life” like that is always the right decision and leads to happiness and fulfillment, and they are turning it on its head.

Comment #100: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  11:51 AM

It’s not just Megan who may be getting the bad bargain in a Don with a Toxic Secret Past, it’s Don, who intends to marry a surface that looks great: beautiful, good with children, artistic inclinations, speaks French.

But scratch Megan’s surface and you get: what? Don doesn’t know, and that’s the problem.

This isn’t the only thread I’ve read with a guy defensive: it’s Don’s right to marry the supposedly untroublesom babe, and they’ll live happily ever after, damn those cats, Joan, Peggy and you.

Because Megan is that stock character in fiction: Wish Fulfillment Woman, the character who is less a character than the fantasy woman the lead, and the men in the audience, think they deserve.

And she’s invariably one-dimensional, because it would be impossibe for a walking fantasy to be 3-D and human.

Don has asked a fantasy to marry him, the guys in the audience are sure he’ll be happy and make all their fantasies come true.

But life and marriage are disgustingly everyday and real: Don and the magical thinking guys in the audience will be saddled with a human, whose needs and wants and personality will be at odds with any fantasy.

Women can spot a Wish Fulfillment Woman at ten yards, Peggy and Joan, sure did. It makes their lives a misery when the men they live and work with expect them to be one-dimensional, and makes the lives of the men themselves a misery in completely unexpected way, when their fantasy turns to reality.

It’s impossible for Don to be happy with Megan, and not only because she doesn’t know him, but he doesn’t know her.

Comment #101: judybrowni  on  10/19  at  12:35 PM

Because Megan is that stock character in fiction: Wish Fulfillment Woman, the character who is less a character than the fantasy woman the lead, and the men in the audience, think they deserve.

And she’s invariably one-dimensional, because it would be impossibe for a walking fantasy to be 3-D and human.

Don has asked a fantasy to marry him, the guys in the audience are sure he’ll be happy and make all their fantasies come true.

Actually, I think they’ve gone to some efforts to show that Megan is not “one-dimensional,” but at the same time is a wish-fulfillment vehicle.  She’s Betty 2.0.  Betty was also a wish-fulfillment vehicle, and also was not one-dimensional.  That’s essentially why Don and Betty’s marriage failed, they started by projecting something onto each other than was not real, and couldn’t live with the reality that inevitably emerged.

Don and Megan are also projecting a variety of wish-fulfillment onto each other, just as Don and Betty once did.  Don is by far more culpable in doing this: he should have learned better from his past experiences, and he had something clearly better, healthier, and more age and situationally appropriate in Faye.  Megan by contrast is young, bright, perhaps possessing some talent (the jury is out on this one), but fundamentally naive.  (I know some others have the she’s-an-actress-manipulating-him theory, and that may be correct, but it seems unlikely with the information we have.)

The fantasy goes both ways though.  Also, plenty of guys in the audience….the vast majority of them I’ll say…are under no illusion that the Draper/Calvais marriage will be a triumph or that they’ll make each other happy in the end.  It’s pretty obvious to anyone paying attention it will be a disaster.

Comment #102: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  12:57 PM

Interesting, Felix!  I hadn’t thought of it that way, but now that you bring it up, I think you’re right.  The standard (nauseating) TV trope is that the woman keeps the baby, and it’s so rewarding and beautiful she can’t bear to think she might have denied herself this joy and fulfillment.  But who on MM ever makes decisions that lead to more joyous and rewarding lives? Only Peggy, that I can see.  Everyone else just fucks up right and left and keeps making things worse while trying to do better.  There’s no reason this case should be any different.  This may be a way to work in a real pregnancy on Hendricks’ part, AND make the point that “keeping the baby” is often everything BUT joyous and rewarding, and can in fact be a great big MISTAKE. 
This line of thought makes me feel much better about the abortion fakeout.

Comment #103: CalliopeJane  on  10/19  at  12:59 PM

CalliopeJane@103: Thanks.  I just think…and I may be projecting my own hopes onto the creative staff at Mad Men…that they have far too much integrity and far too good an understanding of the social realities here to have copped out or else bowed to pressure on this one.

Comment #104: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  01:10 PM

it seems to me everyone else ought to just wish him well.  Not that they can’t note what a cliched choice it is.  But that’s different from outright disapproval or criticism.

However, if you’re really Don Draper’s friend (instead of thinking of Don as your wish fulfillment figure), then you can’t help but wince when you see him making such a stupid mistake—especially when he’s been down this road before (and he’s ridiculed Roger for going down it too). 

Sure, if you want to be Don Draper, rich handsome master of the universe, then you’re going to cheer “Hey, he’s got a new hot young chick who hangs on his every word!  Good for him!”

If you see Don as a fellow human being who needs to grow and mature before he can find real happiness (like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day)  then you’re going to groan “WTF, Don?  Haven’t you learned anything?” 

As Amanda has pointed out, Megan is Betty 2.0; she may be dark where Betty is blonde, and speak French where Betty spoke Italian, but they’re the same beautiful cipher who’s supposed to clean up the mess, change the diapers and praise Don instead of challenging him.  And since they’re both human (instead of Stepford wives), one can’t help but wonder whether Megan will become what Betty already is.  What’s going to be Megan’s reaction when Don cheats on her (as he inevitably will)?  I doubt she’s going to smile and trill “Oh, it’s nothing, sweetheart!” My guess is that she’ll become the bitter prisoner of her own delusions and frustrations, just the way Betty is now.

Part of Megan’s charm (or more likely, calculated strategy) is to give everything and ask for nothing;
to praise without criticizing, to take care of Don’s kids without asking for extra pay, to take the one night stand without even asking for a date.  That’s a nice fantasy, but it doesn’t work too long in real life.  Already, Megan has asked Don to break up with Fay, and implicitly criticized his procrastination (“The longer you put it off, the harder it’s going to be.”)  She’s becoming less like Fantasy Woman and more like a real woman, and Don has become less the Prince Charming and more the jailed little boy in the Glo Coat ad.  No wonder he seems to be looking for a way out in the last scene; he still hasn’t grown up.

Comment #105: Blue Jean  on  10/19  at  01:20 PM

FlipYrWig @44: @ Yamara:  I dunno, though.  I’m still a newbie to the show, but my sense of Joan is that she’s not prone to big revelations about her reasons for things, and to me it seems like the show is being true to her fairly well-established reticence, caginess, and laconic or silent knowingness.

Doesn’t keep the writers from ensuring the audience knows more about Don than any character does, including himself. He’s not so big on openness, either.

Joan’s secrets are meant to tantalize, Don’s to drive the plot. That’s perfectly legitimate, even excellent strategy for writing. But using such an important and present human issue as choice to merely tantalize is irresponsible fan service. We should have seen at least a hint of Joan’s deeper motivations for risking her job and marriage to have this child.

All politics aside, it’s the difference between soap opera and drama.

Since politics isn’t aside? Choice shouldn’t be treated like a soap opera.

Comment #106: Yamara  on  10/19  at  02:12 PM

No wonder he seems to be looking for a way out in the last scene

I noticed that they kept blocking scenes of Don sitting in profile staring straight ahead.  That was the pose he used when he stared at the junkie woman’s painting and then wrote the full-page ad about quitting working for tobacco companies.  And I feel like even that is a kind of gesture about changing yourself and believing in something more important _that is immediately undercut_ by the fact that it is also a marketing strategy.  Don hasn’t really quit anything.  He feels like he has; he feels like he’s made a fresh start.  But he’s still an ad man, and he’s still a smoker, and he’s still in the old routines.

But to me that pose that you and others have identified as “looking for a way out” is more like “failed self-scrutiny.”  Didn’t the junkie artist say the painting was of the images that flashed across her eyes when she closed them?  I think he’s trying to look into himself and coming up with nothing.  So the staring, even without the actual painting, is the same sign:  he wants to see himself but doesn’t really know how to do anything more than reenact a cliche script about marriage and nurturing.  While _thinking_ it’s an act of quitting, he’s still running another iteration of the same habits.

Comment #107: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  02:19 PM

We should have seen at least a hint of Joan’s deeper motivations for risking her job and marriage to have this child.

Haven’t we? Since she did indeed choose to keep the child under those circumstances, doesn’t that make her motivations pretty obvious?  If we had some reason to believe in some non-standard, deep, dark motive for not aborting the pregnancy, that would be one thing…in the utter absence of that, I think it’s is pretty clear from four seasons’ worth of material that Joan believes in the narrative that she needs a good husband and children to be happy and that she believes she is getting older and in danger of becoming a childless biddy.

Like the other charaters this season who were unhappy and imperfectly self-aware, she decided this desperate move of keeping her boss’ baby and passing it off as her husband’s would make things better while not actually requiring her to confront who she is and what is really making her unhappy.

Comment #108: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  02:22 PM

@ Yamara:

We should have seen at least a hint of Joan’s deeper motivations for risking her job and marriage to have this child.

First, I might be out on a limb on this, but I don’t think we actually yet know that Joan has decided to have a child.

Second, I think that open discussion of her motivations would have made for much, much worse soap opera both aesthetically and politically.  (Just from the standpoint of drama, who would she talk to, and under what circumstances?  You could do a voiceover, but that seems hackish.  Any other ideas?)  I don’t think she has to tell.  I think that’s actually truer to the credo that her body is her choice, and that she has a right to privacy—even from the audience’s prying eyes.

Comment #109: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  02:26 PM

Well Megan is going to cheat on Don first. She seduced him when she knew he was with Faye.  He has it coming Karma wise. I see no reason for Peggy to have a major flaw. She is righteous. Sorry if some of you are too cynical to believe that.


“the guys in the audience are sure he’ll be happy and make all their fantasies come true.” Ditch the male bashing.

Comment #110: PatrickNM  on  10/19  at  02:44 PM

I see no reason for Peggy to have a major flaw.

You mean other than the fact that “perfect” characters are unrealistic, flat, boring, and of little dramatic value particularly in a lead character?  Peggy certainly has flaws, and to assert this is not “cynicism.”  Which is not to say Peggy’s flaws are in any way as severe, crippling, or all-consuming as Don’s…Peggy seems to be on track to overcome her own problems and end up both happy and successful.

Comment #111: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  02:51 PM

If you see Don as a fellow human being who needs to grow and mature before he can find real happiness (like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day) then you’re going to groan

And if you see this whole concept as the most ridiculously hackneyed and trite interpretive framework for serial drama, then you will gag when you hear it because it’s also the only human dynamic anyone ever talks about for every major dramatic TV character they ever encounter.

Comment #112: MDrew  on  10/19  at  02:57 PM

#97 - By no means is the basket of personal issue beside the point - I didn’t say it was.  Just about any relationship is doomed with that monster weighing him down.  Did anyone seriously see this guy making a life together with a person of the caliber of Dr. Faye.  I don’t think it’s me who’s holding this person up higher than he deserves.  And I’ve never thought I could ever live that life, or want to.  I’m sure to some of you, every man must want to.  It’s not so.

Comment #113: MDrew  on  10/19  at  03:04 PM

I said Major flaws not any flaws, she is not perfect, she is unformed, not yet a whole person. She has the working class sensibility that gives her more wisdom and room for growth. She has strong ethics and integrity. Betty has the common upper class cluelessness and entitlement. Faye is also righteous and close to a whole person, but she is in a time when relationships are shifting. I now how she feels. Don is not the devil, but rationalizes too much that he damages those close to him. The Devil, which I don’t believe in, is supposed to be crafty. Cynics are people who think the all other people are like themselves, thus they don’t recognize or believe in the goodness of others.

Comment #114: PatrickNM  on  10/19  at  03:07 PM

Part of our fascination and disappointment in Don is his two-steps-forward-two-steps-back habits.  He has a capacity of self-improvement and the habit of throwing it all away for the his illusions that’s maddening.  Faye knows his history and still cares/loves him but he throws her away for Betty v.2, the improved version who actually likes kids and who says she doesn’t care about his past. 

I imagined Sally’s internal head gears turning when Don says “Dick” was his nickname.  She knows that’s unusual or somehow not true.  She may start to look into it.  Will she be disillusioned and fall out of love with her dad?  Will she resent Megan coming into their lives or will she welcome a mom figure who is more sympathetic to her?

Comment #115: MiddleageLiberal  on  10/19  at  03:11 PM

@112

I’m sorry, you want fiction where the character doesn’t grow?  That sounds really boring.

Comment #116: clever screen name  on  10/19  at  03:18 PM

116 - That is correct, I value variety, realism (which very much includes backsliding and emotional stuntedness, including the resulting consequences) and unpredictability over automatic “growth” in characters’ portrayals.  Growth is fine if it’s one among a number of contingent possibilities.

Comment #117: MDrew  on  10/19  at  03:25 PM

Flip @ 57

Yes

Comment #118: LCforevah  on  10/19  at  03:38 PM

@112, 116: I think to some extent we’re confusing the concepts of “character arc” and “growth” here.  A character can have a satisfying arc while not growing in any meaningful sense, and even whilst regressing.

Comment #119: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  04:17 PM

I think we’re having two conflicting conversations here.  Most people are trying to talk about how Don marrying Megan is such a stupid decision for Don, not about whether Don marrying Megan is good TV. 

No one here thinks that Mad Men would be a better show if Don (and everyone else) always made the decisions that were best for them.  Because we relate to these characters, we mourn when they fuck up their lives, but the fact that they are fuck ups is what makes them compelling TV.  So yeah, Don the TV character should marry Megan because Don making mistakes is what the show is all about.  But Don the human should stay with Faye, because Faye is the type of woman that Don could really have a deep life-long connection with.

Comment #120: Denise  on  10/19  at  05:02 PM

By no means is the basket of personal issue beside the point - I didn’t say it was.

You didn’t?

the more I think about it, the more it seem like a pretty realistic choice for a man in his situation in that era, even leaving aside his particular basket of personal issues, to make.

At the very least you’re putting the blame on the times and the situation ahead of his overwhelming personal hang-ups. The point is, you can’t leave them aside—saying “well, he’s a divorced guy during the 1960s” excuses a lot. In fact, the addict and the enabler both play their parts in self-destructive behaviour.

Not everyone, even in an era where it was encouraged and expected, would have made that choice—especially when we’re discussing someone as privileged as Don. Some men make bad decisions, some don’t, and it’s tied to those personal issues first and foremost. That’s realism.

So yes, it would have been an equally valid narrative turn to see Don, in the course of trying to make a fresh start, try to make it work with Faye. He’d made a start of it in the last half of the season, and it would create plenty of opportunities for drama and conflict next season as he tries (and probably fails) to make it work with someone who has his number.

Not that I’d argue that the writers’ choice is invalid. It certainly makes sense in terms of tying things up for the season: Don tried to start over, tried to cure his various addictions in the face of crises, but still wasn’t self-aware enough to go at the one that’s really holding him back. What’s important is that the direction taken by the writers is also based mainly in Don’s personal issues and conflicts, and only co-incidentally in his times.

Comment #121: Gracchus.  on  10/19  at  05:05 PM

And Don the alien android should continue to quietly pretend to be Don the human TV character so that his plans to infiltrate and subdue the human race proceed anon.

Sorry, couldn’t resist. wink

Comment #122: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  05:07 PM

@30: FlipYrWhig “Can someone remind me what is the deal with Glenn The Creepy Neighbor Kid?  I only started watching this season.

If you’re still reading, back in season 1, Betty babysat Glenn and Glenn was weirdly, creepily smitten with her and Betty was weirdly, creepily flattered and seduced by his smittenness. He asked her for a lock of her hair and she gave it to him, and he had some fantasy about rescuing her Princess Peach-style and them running away together, which Betty kind of entertained. Glenn’s mom, Helen Bishop, confronted Betty in a grocery store about the lock of hair and its implications and Betty slapped her. It was all in the subtext of Betty being validated by her sexual desirability, even when the subject of that desire is a child, and Betty emotionally being a child herself. The whole storyline kind of mirrored the male characters’ fetishization of youth, particularly Roger’s.
Betty’s ashamed she fell for that from a kid and wants to forget her interactions with Glenn ever happened. In typical Betty fashion, she doesn’t even know how to articulate what she’s upset about, or she’s too embarrassed to look at her issues with Glenn honestly enough to articulate them. She just wants Glenn to disappear, so she projects her self-loathing onto him and simplistically makes him out to be the devil.

36: Cola82

Did anyone else notice Joan’s wry comment about Don not being the first man to marry his secretary? Remember that Roger married a secretary when Joan wouldn’t have him and he got divorced. Joan never wanted to be that woman that the older dude marries to more or less mount on his wall as some kind of trophy, but she did get passed over by someone who could have built a more meaningful life with her if he hadn’t been such a child.

Joan would have married Roger if she’d had any inclination that he wanted to marry her. His “Greatest Piece of Ass” speech in season 1 told her what he thought of her and she had no reason to believe he’d have left Mona, until he suddenly did, which obviously hurt her. Roger reified his intention to never commit to Joan in their conversation in the diner. “I suppose you could keep it, but it wouldn’t be mine.”

@40: autodidact

However, I feel that MW has always angled the story towards those of us who are receptive to the deeper issues at play, especially the social implications of characters’ actions.  It just makes me fume a little that all the “YAY JOANIE KEPT HER BAYYBEEEE!” people get a victory and reinforce the TV trope that so disgusts feminists.

Ditto for “YAY DON BAGGED THE HOT ONE!” wrt his schtupping Megan. I’m afraid to even look at Gawker. “Don Draper’s BACK!” People so don’t get it. It’s frustrating.

@87: oldfeminist - I think she was showing a little when Lane called her into his office. And I think that’s why she was pushing the mail cart around, which she’s never done before, and kept her hands in front of her, to hide the bump you could see from certain angles.

Comment #123: snobographer  on  10/19  at  05:15 PM

@ snobographer:  Thanks for the backstory on Glenn.  I guess that’s part of why this season she kept reacting to him as a sexual menace to Sally.

Comment #124: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  05:27 PM

110: PatrickNM “Ditch the male bashing.

Maybe when so many of the males who watch this show stop uncritically romanticizing a character who clamors for validation by fucking random anonymous flight attendants.

Comment #125: snobographer  on  10/19  at  05:28 PM

#121 - No, I didn’t, and what’s more, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve written there.

Comment #126: MDrew  on  10/19  at  05:36 PM

In fact, I didn’t even say Don didn’t make this decision because of his issues, or “put the blame on” the times.  I only said that, taking Don’s situation generically, the choice he made here is potentially not that mysterious or insane.  Indeed, someone pointed out that it wouldn’t be even today.  Another graciously added, “No shit, Sherlock.”  And that’s right.  The point is, what has this person done to give us the impression he has some higher standard for himself that he’s not meeting.  Swam a few laps?  In my view, Faye fit neatly in amongst the interesting, challenging women whose company Draper has always enjoyed, but with whom he never for a second considered sharing a life or a home.  He may have considered it briefly with Faye, but only re-embraced his retrograde definition of the role of a wife as a result.

Comment #127: MDrew  on  10/19  at  05:51 PM

@124 - Yeah I was also thinking Glenn’s rescue-the-princess idea of boy-girl relationships might be part of what’s freaking Betty out too - that on some level she wants to save Sally from her own fate. But mostly I think she’s just avoiding her larger issues with herself the same way Don is.
Also interesting is in Betty and Glenn’s season 1 creepifest, Glenn barged in on Betty when she was in the bathroom, sitting on the toilet, girdle around her ankles, and just stood there staring at her, ignoring her demands that he leave until she tottered over and slammed the door in his face.
Last night, Glenn knocked on Sally’s door and asked if she was decent and got Sally’s permission before entering her room. Glenn’s grown out of some of his weirdness, but Betty wouldn’t know that and might not even care if she did.

And it’s occurred to me just now to wonder if Betty’s vilification of Glenn isn’t intended to mirror the audience’s popular vilification of Betty and reflect maybe their self-loathing for wanting women to be uncritically doting while the men in their lives treat them like shit.

Comment #128: snobographer  on  10/19  at  05:53 PM

Glenn’s grown out of some of his weirdness, but Betty wouldn’t know that and might not even care if she did.

This might hold some traction with me if it weren’t for the fact this is the same Glen who this season came in and trashed the whole house (minus Sally’s room of course) in some sort of vengeance thing and is still creepily pursuing some kind of friendship with the daughter of his former obsession.  I don’t think he has grown out of weirdness so much as matured into it.

And it’s occurred to me just now to wonder if Betty’s vilification of Glenn isn’t intended to mirror the audience’s popular vilification of Betty and reflect maybe their self-loathing for wanting women to be uncritically doting while the men in their lives treat them like shit.

They do have a very similar almost deadened affect…but I think that’s probably reading too much into it regardless. wink

Comment #129: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  06:05 PM

As Amanda has pointed out, Megan is Betty 2.0; she may be dark where Betty is blonde, and speak French where Betty spoke Italian, but they’re the same beautiful cipher who’s supposed to clean up the mess, change the diapers and praise Don instead of challenging him.

Even Sally sees this.  If they take Gene along to Disneyland, then Megan can’t ride the really fun rides.

I’m still analyzing the conversation Joan had with her husband.  He said she can gain all the weight she wants, he’ll whip her and the baby back into shape when he returns.  A standard response to that would be a playful “yes sir!” but she just says yes, or right, sort of noncommittally.

Her artfully evading his question about showing is yet another secretive Joan move we don’t always understand.

She appears to be showing a little, but it’s hard to say, because she’s always had the voluptuous figure that includes what the bible calls “a belly like a heap of wheat.”  We’re so used to thinking of a round belly as anathema on a beautiful woman that one might mentally assume she must have a flat belly.  But she never did.  For example:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00195/PL1220974_MAD_MEN___195721t.jpg
http://iamatvjunkie.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c17f69e2013485d6e530970c-450wi
http://img2.timeinc.net/instyle/images/2009/GalxMonth/10/100509-christina-hendricks2-400.jpg

Comment #130: oldfeminist  on  10/19  at  06:10 PM

No, I didn’t

Sorry, I misunderstood. When you said you thought it was a pretty realistic choice for a man in his situation in that era, even leaving aside his particular basket of personal issues, I didn’t see that you were actually saying that it was a realistic choice for a man with his particular basket of personal issues in any situation or era. My error.

In my view, Faye fit neatly in amongst the interesting, challenging women whose company Draper has always enjoyed, but with whom he never for a second considered sharing a life or a home.

“Never for a second”? He shared his secret with her. The only two other women he’s done that with fully were Anna (for obvious reasons) and Betty (under duress). He was starting to date Faye like an adult instead of sneaking around. He was terrified about calling her to break it off (Megan had to prompt him). The novelty and tension of the episode not only came from the bad choice, but that he was considering that there was a choice to be made.

Comment #131: Gracchus.  on  10/19  at  06:22 PM

I’m not so sure Don’s going to make Megan a copywriter. I’m more inclined to think he’ll buy a house in the burbs (maybe keep the old Ossining house) and keep her sequestered there and fuck around on her and keep her at arms length until she’s thoroughly embittered about her shattered dreams. And then about two-thirds of the show’s audience will wonder why Megan’s so pissed off all the time when she used to be so sweet and she has everything she ever wanted and what a spoiled brat etc.

100: Felix Culpa “I haven’t done a demographic analysis, but I have a very strong feeling the culture-warrior anti-choice people don’t watch this show in very significant numbers and Weiner knows it.

I haven’t done any analysis either, but if you read comments on less explicitly liberal places like AMC’s website or the dreaded bastion of dipshittery YouTube, there’s a hell of a lot of morons who think it’s all a celebration of binary gender roles and good old fashioned in-your-face sexism.

Comment #132: snobographer  on  10/19  at  06:23 PM

I was also confused Peggy’s reaction to Don and Meghan - and appreciate what you say here about it.  Still, I can’t help thinking some of this anger is at Meghan’s easy slide into the Old Boy’s club.  Peggy walks in on them all congratulating and welcoming Meghan into their male (with wives) world - one that she is consistently cut out from in her lowly position - even though she has brought in new business.  When Don says Meghan has always admired her - well that is just a slap in the face to Peggy’s accomplishments, as technically in the work place, Meghan is her “inferior”.

I also loved the scene between Peggy and Joan. How many of us have walked into a colleagues office and slammed the door to review some sexist BS in our workplaces.

Comment #133: katbat67  on  10/19  at  06:25 PM

Yeah, I said it was realistic.  How is that saying the issues are beside the point, or even that they didn’t drive the decision?  You’re making up an either/or that doesn’t exist.

Comment #134: MDrew  on  10/19  at  06:26 PM

I’m wondering how the writers will develop Megan. It’s more or less a cliché regarding French women that they cater to the man while managing to lead their own lives and fulfill their own desires. In other words, she could be more self-aware and more willing to do what it takes to care for herself. The puritanical, confrontational style that Betty tried to use with Don and that served her so poorly won’t come into play with Megan.

I’m sure that Megan’s relationship with her chère maman would lend itself to this idea. She would be there to support her daughter’s needs, not Don’s.

Megan could develop her own secret life, just like Don has his. Fine irony.

We know a little of how Betty’s mother treated her and inculcated unrealistic expectations of how to be a woman and a wife. Somehow, I don’t see une mère française avec une certaine philosophie de la vie doing the same thing.

Comment #135: LCforevah  on  10/19  at  06:27 PM

I haven’t done any analysis either, but if you read comments on less explicitly liberal places like AMC’s website or the dreaded bastion of dipshittery YouTube, there’s a hell of a lot of morons who think it’s all a celebration of binary gender roles and good old fashioned in-your-face sexism.

Fair point, but my hope in the absence of a rigorous statistical breakdown of the viewership is that those people are merely a small-but-vocal contingent of idiots.  I feel reasonably confident that either way, Weiner and company do not spend a lot of time worrying about them.

Comment #136: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  06:33 PM

...And I said she “fit in neatly” among those women he didn’t think of that way.  *In the very next sentence* I say he may have considered Faye in particular briefly in that way, but only to immediately retreat to his established, unreformed views about the role of a wife for him.  (Though I’d say there’s very little evidence he got very far at all in entertaining the idea of marrying her.)

What exactly is your issue with (not) reading what people write and responding to things they didn’t?

Comment #137: MDrew  on  10/19  at  06:33 PM

@129: Felix Culpa - This is true. He’s still pretty creepy. I get the feeling Sally might have had a positive influence on him though; this was hinted at earlier in the season when Sally turned down Glenn’s offer for a cigarette, which made him decide he didn’t really want one either. He seemed less a delinquent now than he did at the beginning of the season. He showed his face at the door in broad daylight instead of giving Carla a fake name over the phone, at least. This shows what relationships based on real intimacy can do for a person. Betty and Don should be paying attention.

Comment #139: snobographer  on  10/19  at  06:44 PM

Remember the time when we’ve seen the most emotion from Joan the entire series?  It was when she was talking to Dr. Rapist right before he left for basic training, after a humiliating and dehumanizing experience at the office: “But who will I talk to?”  And she actually cried.  This scene asserts what we already know—that Joan opens up to hardly anyone, and the one person she does have some candor with, is a husband who raped her and clearly doesn’t understand her all that well.  I think it’s rather natural to the story that we aren’t privy to Joan’s decisionmaking process over deciding to have the abortion or not, and understandable that her motivation will come out in onion-peel layers (just as her whole character has over four seasons).

Joan has always been the biggest advocate of keeping a stone-cold exterior about one’s emotions and personal life at the office.  Remember her decree against crying in the break room.  It’s natural that even though we get glimpses of Joan in a context outside the office, the impenetrable facade remains, especially when it came to concretely demonstrating some reasoning or motivation to not go through with the abortion.

I hate that Joan is so alone.  I agree that a child will probably worsen this for her and that Mad Men’s writers will make this into the anti-TV trope next season.

Comment #140: autodidact  on  10/19  at  06:47 PM

Yeah, I said it was realistic.  How is that saying the issues are beside the point, or even that they didn’t drive the decision?

What can I tell you? You said it would be realistic (read the next bit carefully) “even leaving aside his particular basket of personal issues.”

Why leave aside the central thing driving his bad decisions, and additionally place the real focus on his situation and era? Since you say you agree with me, perhaps you transposed things and the sentence at #91 should really read:

“I’m not saying we should like this decision, or that Megan isn’t a paper doll, but the more I think about it, the more it seem like a pretty realistic choice for a man with his particular basket of personal issues, even leaving aside his situation in that era”

I say he may have considered Faye in particular briefly in that way

Which is, of course, exactly the same thing as “never for a second.” And it wasn’t “briefly”—this relationship has been going on under the table for several episodes—weeks or months as far as the show is concerned. He may not have been considering marriage as an end result, but again that’s new for Don.

What exactly is your issue with (not) reading what people write and responding to things they didn’t?

I’ve been quoting you throughout, allowing for context.

Comment #141: Gracchus.  on  10/19  at  06:48 PM

@LCforevah: 

I’m wondering how the writers will develop Megan. It’s more or less a cliché regarding French women that they cater to the man while managing to lead their own lives and fulfill their own desires.

But there’s also Simone de Beauvoir.  And someone, probably Amanda, has linked Betty to a kind of Betty Friedan manqué.  Maybe we’ll get the French feminist awakening next season.

Comment #142: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  06:52 PM

MDrew @ 138 I so agree on the milkshake thing, having come from parents that would have both been livid at the spill. It took the families of friends to show me it didn’t have to be that way, and I can see why Don would be so surprised and charmed.

It is one of the things that made me think that Megan is much more French and pragmatic than Betty, and will have more on the ball when it comes to dealing with Don.

Comment #143: LCforevah  on  10/19  at  06:53 PM

snobographer@139: No argument there.  I think Glen’s an essentially good kid with some divorce and neglect issues going on.  (Which would make him not unlike Sally there…)  And perhaps he has matured or gotten a little bit better over the course of the past few episodes in particular, this last episode would seem to support that interpretation.

Pity, I think we’ve seen the last of Glen what with the move to Rye and so forth.  At least for a while, unless next season skips ahead several years or so, in which event I doubt we’d have the same actors playing them.

Come to think on it, a three-year or so jump between seasons four and five wouldn’t seem to be out of the question.  I think narratively, at least enough time will have to pass for Don and Megan’s “honeymoon” period to be over.  How long that will take is anyone’s guess.  But as I said last week, predicting Mad Men plot arcs is a very risky business. wink

Comment #144: Felix Culpa  on  10/19  at  06:54 PM

“Even leaving aside…” MEANS “And I don’t propose to leave them aside!  That’s EXACTLY what anyone who writes that construction is trying to say when they write that.  You’re literally taking everything I write and refusing to let it have the meaning it clearly has.  You’re ridiculous; I’m done with you.

Comment #145: MDrew  on  10/19  at  06:55 PM

“Even leaving aside…” MEANS “And I don’t propose to leave them aside!

No, when you say “even leaving aside…” you’re explicitly allowing something to be left aside in order to emphasise the importance of other factors. Just for future reference.

Comment #146: Gracchus.  on  10/19  at  06:59 PM

LCforevah @143 - I don’t agree with everything in that post (for example, um Deborah, this is Mad men: the thing is clearly doomed).  But it gets to the basic point of what this thing is with Megan and what Faye was maximally (i.e. a challenging friend and lover… but not a spouse, because of his limitations and fear, which he was absolutely not on the verge of overcoming).

Comment #147: MDrew  on  10/19  at  06:59 PM

Flip @ 142, considering that de Beauvoir let that existentialist moron treat her like shit, then elle était aussi vraiment manquée.

I see Megan as developing an entire life with and without Don. I don’t know why that hit me so strongly, I have no idea that the MM writers would be aware of any such thing.

Comment #148: LCforevah  on  10/19  at  07:05 PM

@133: katbat67 - I think Peggy knew Don was with Faye, for whom she had a lot of respect, and was disappointed, like Peter and many of us, that Don dumped the powerful peer for the beautiful underling.
Also, the marriage announcement stole the thunder from her small-but-streak-breaking Topaz account.

And btw OMG what a letch Henry is. He’s the same asshole pig he was back during the Patio Cola auditions. He may be even worse.

@136: Felix Culpa - The vocality of the idiot contingent might make it seem larger than it really is. Wiener seems pretty contemptuous of the idiots in the audience, actually. I forget where I saw it, but there was a video of him making fun of the people who complained about how he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Comment #149: snobographer  on  10/19  at  07:07 PM

It holds that factor apart from the context for a moment in order to examine the context, which allows one to see the precise role the matter at hand plays in the overall situation more clearly, or at least in context.  The basic point is that this may be an overdetermined decision by Don. Both his issues and his situation in life, in his compromised view of things, compel him toward.  That was the idea I was trying to present.  Not even assert as true.  Just a speculative way to look at it.

Comment #150: MDrew  on  10/19  at  07:09 PM

@MDrew 147 - I remember a lot of feminist and anti-feminist commentary in the 70s and 80s about how women like Faye, who had lives and careers of their own and challenged their male partners as peers, were often left in the lurch for doting, uncritical types like Megan. Of course, on the feminist side of the argument, this is recognized as unfair selfish bullshit. And on the anti-feminist side, it’s argued that this is the natural order of things, because women like Faye are emasculating harpies who don’t understand what men want, and the fact that what men want is to be of paramount concern at all times. Those old discussions were the first thing that came to my mind when Faye slammed down the phone and cried alone in her office.
These arguments continue to this day, but I think the sides have gotten less obvious, or more blurred. Though that might just be my perspective.

Comment #151: snobographer  on  10/19  at  07:26 PM

snobographer - sure I can see that.  I don’t think I’m making either of those arguments.  I’m just saying that people are going to do what they’re going to do.  In the realm of relationships, in terms of deciding to go one’s separate way (at least when there’s not a marriage or kids between the partners), people are pretty much entitled to do what they want.  I’m obligated to make decisions about my romantic life that uphold a standard of social reform of some kind?

Comment #152: MDrew  on  10/19  at  07:34 PM

...or someone else’s agenda for our “growth” or development?

Comment #153: MDrew  on  10/19  at  07:37 PM

#108: Felix Culpa:
We should have seen at least a hint of Joan’s deeper motivations for risking her job and marriage to have this child.

Haven’t we? Since she did indeed choose to keep the child under those circumstances, doesn’t that make her motivations pretty obvious?

No.

This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Simple Questions.

Like the other charaters this season who were unhappy and imperfectly self-aware, she decided this desperate move of keeping her boss’ baby and passing it off as her husband’s would make things better while not actually requiring her to confront who she is and what is really making her unhappy.

This is pure speculation. All we know of Joan’s motivation for wanting the American Dream is an odd jumble of hints: an embarrassing skill at accordion, unflinching and reacting with skill when a foot is mauled, two previous abortions, and that “there better not be” a chapter about her in Roger’s memoirs.

Joan’s strength is in knowing her ground and her limits—knowing things before she’s asked, so she can come off flawless in any social situation.

Where does that strength come from? That’s a dramatic question, and it bears a lot of narrative weight. It was not even touched upon when it was required.

Whoozyerdaddy and willshekeepit are already-answered questions, and have the weight of a bar of soap.

#109: FlipYrWhig: Second, I think that open discussion of her motivations would have made for much, much worse soap opera both aesthetically and politically.  (Just from the standpoint of drama, who would she talk to, and under what circumstances?  You could do a voiceover, but that seems hackish.  Any other ideas?) I don’t think she has to tell.

Joan has already been in one flashback this season.

Don’s major revelations of his childhood and Korean War experience were also flashbacks. The writer’s room knows how to do those dramatically, and not as soap opera.

All we really know is that she has some major secrets in her past that has got her to want certain things. I still trust Weiner & Co. to do better next season, but Joan wanting to keep Roger’s baby and pass it off as Greg’s needed to connect with those still-only-hinted motivations to make it drama. Without that, “she wants the baby” is just soap.

I think that’s actually truer to the credo that her body is her choice, and that she has a right to privacy—even from the audience’s prying eyes.

You’re confusing real women’s privacy with that of a fictional character. Please be aware of this, and please stop. This is why Amanda’s charge of pernicious fan service is so accurate: Fan service allows fans a titillation that meets their desires as if they owned the character and make it do as they wish.

I did appreciate the silence of two weeks as a reflection of a women’s choice being no one’s business, and that abortions happen in silence, while prying gossips want to know and chatter. But the state of Joan’s womb was ultimately going be known. That’s what happens in continuing narratives. They didn’t write it very well.

If you need any further illustration of the difference between real women and characters, imagine if Mel Gibson himself had the power to read women’s minds as opposed to the character he played in What Women Want. That’s what a voiceover usually is, but we put up with the conceit all the time, as if hearing someone else’s thoughts was normal and not some sci-fi form of rape as entertainment.

Comment #154: Yamara  on  10/19  at  07:37 PM

144: Felix Culpa - So far, they’ve seemed to decide which years to skip based on what interesting historical events took place. They skipped 1961 and most of 1964. 1966 was a pretty interesting year.

Pet Sounds, Blonde on Blonde, and Revolver are released.
NOW is formed.
MLK addresses the Vietnam war. Later some asshole(s) hurl(s) rocks at his head.
Cesar Chavez and farm workers come into national attention.
Star Trek debuts.
John Lennon says the Beatles are more popular than Jesus, later apologizes.
Ronald Reagan’s elected governor of California.
Truman Capote has his Black and White Ball in NYC, which was apparently a big deal, and it’s in NYC.

I can’t imagine them skipping that one, particularly with the stink about Lennon’s statement.

Comment #155: snobographer  on  10/19  at  08:07 PM

@152: MDrew - I didn’t say you were obligated to do anything. I was just saying men dumping challenging women for doting women is an age-old issue and there’s been a lot of discussion about how it affects people’s lives and their perspectives of themselves. As a girl, this stuff was really confusing. People on all sides were telling you what you should be. Some were individual people contradicting themselves. Don’t think you need a man to get by, but he’s not going to buy the cow when he can get the milk for free, and be yourself above all things, but don’t question his decisions or talk too much because guys don’t like that… It was friggin’ weird. Still is.

Comment #156: snobographer  on  10/19  at  08:17 PM

@ Yamara:

You’re confusing real women’s privacy with that of a fictional character. Please be aware of this, and please stop.

Seriously, WTF is the matter with you?  You think you’re the One True Gatekeeper for how to discuss a literature ethically?

Fan service allows fans a titillation that meets their desires as if they owned the character and make it do as they wish.

If only the people who create the show would bow to your own idiosyncratic interpretations of the nature of drama… as if you owned the show and could make it do as you wished.

Comment #157: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  08:22 PM

I mean, we don’t even KNOW that she will have or does want the baby, so spinning a whole theory of aesthetic and political failure and “pernicious fan service” from the thin filaments you have seems… ambitious, to say the least.

Comment #158: FlipYrWhig  on  10/19  at  08:25 PM

@154: Yamara - We also have her talking up marriage to a successful man and moving to the burbs as her vision of success. And her seeing her doctor to make sure her previous abortions wouldn’t affect her ability to get pregnant. And even her doctor was nagging her about being married two years and not having a baby yet. Joan’s a strong character, but she’s as steeped in gender norms and expectations as anybody. Peggy was even about to settle for some wanker she didn’t even like because of this crap.

Comment #159: snobographer  on  10/19  at  08:34 PM

Oh, not at all, snobogragh.  I didn’t mean to suggest you were saying I was.  In respect to the arguments of yore that you mention, I was just saying that at some point our agendas for people’s private life decisions (the ones that are truly private) lose their basis in any legitimate ground we stand on for critique.

Comment #160: MDrew  on  10/19  at  09:06 PM

Nah, I think this decision is critiqueable, especially since he’s been making some efforts to grow. That he still doesn’t recognize these pretty major shortcomings in himself - his refusal to own up to his false identity, his compulsion to cling so desperately to his spot on the sex hierarchy - we get to pick this apart, or else why would it be there.

Comment #161: snobographer  on  10/19  at  09:23 PM

If discussing the stock character of the Wish Fulfillment Woman is “man bashing”....

The stock character Wish Fulfillment Woman does change with the times, so becomes more obvious in films (novels, TV shows) from previous decades.

The idea that the “Dumb Dora” was considered attractive may even have satirized by the extremely sharp Gracie Allen with her straight man and husband George Burns.

Rewatched the Manchurian Candidate, and the Janet Leigh character is completely unwatchable, except as a possible example of that period’s Wish Fulfillment Woman.

There are more Wish Fulfillment Women being promoted in the media than her counterpart Romance Novel Hero, only because men, and white men at that, still dominate the creation of our media.

But Romance Novel Hero (or Wish Fulfillment Man) is also a stock character of chick lit: his love saves the her from the vicissitudes of her life, and he loves her despite, well, whatever the hell are her flaws.

Comment #162: judybrowni  on  10/19  at  10:17 PM

Snobographer @159: Yes, she wants the American Dream, gender norms and all. All the characters are susceptible to wanting it, but only Joan’s motivations remain obscure.

For instance, Lane was depreciating Roger for being childish, but was slapping steak to his belt buckle and giggling over Godzilla like a kid. Why did Lane act they way he did? Well, it took all of half a page of script to show why. We knew in one blow he wasn’t stuck in childhood like Roger: he simply had never had one.

“Tomorrowland” didn’t need as big a reveal as that alongside Joan’s pregnancy.  But it needed to hint at something of a deeper why.

The whole episode feels like a pile of uninteresting cliffhangers.

 

FlipYrWhig: We know Joan prefers to let one man think she’s had an abortion, and the other to think he’s going to be a father. Her wanting the baby, and wanting it within certain parameters can now be drawn from context, but the why can only be drawn from deeper aspects of her motivation, which are not known.

Absent a character motivation, we’re left with the default presumption: women just want babies. That’s the fan service Amanda was calling attention to.

You think you’re the One True Gatekeeper for how to discuss a literature ethically?

No. Ethics is important in this discussion, but please just reread your sentence I quoted. Mixing up actors/characters and other real/narrative differences is a common error in critique, especially by fans. Been guilty of it myself.

Fan service is usually referred to as “prostituting your characters”, at least in webcomics.

Until the pregnancy is tied to the rest of the arc of Joan’s life, it just floats there because babeez iz kawaii.

It’s as if we had been left thinking Lane was just quirky because he’s British.

 

Amanda observed that there’s a good episode in there, but the editing was rushed. Probably true. Still trust Weiner & Co. to pull it off, but defying the structure of season arcs by leaving Joan’s reasoning hanging in between seasons feels inexpert.

Still: Now Joan & Peggy can start a Secret Pregnancy Club! That should be fun.

Comment #163: Yamara  on  10/19  at  10:48 PM

So I have a plot twist idea. Megan is French Canadian, so obviously Catholic (all those nieces and nephews); what if her family won’t let her marry him because they can’t get married in the Church?  (And also, there have been no signs at all that Don has any knowledge of or interest in hockey.  How will that fly with all the brothers-in-law?)

Comment #164: kajey  on  10/19  at  11:20 PM

@Yamara 163 - “The whole episode feels like a pile of uninteresting cliffhangers.

I’m with you on that, actually. Several episodes of this whole season something’s felt off about the writing. The exposition’s much more obvious than it used to be. I’m not sure why that is. Different writers? Large segments of the audience not getting the point? My hypercritical imagination?

But I think Joan’s characterization throughout the series, and her current circumstances, has explained why she’d want to have a baby at this point. She’s indoctrinated, has internalized “marrying up” as one of her primary life-goals (though she failed at that one when it turned out Greg has brainless fingers) and would probably see this pregnancy as her last chance, like a lot of women in their 30s do to this day, to be a mother, which is held up as the end-all-be-all for women still but even more-so then.

I would like more back-story on her though.

Comment #165: snobographer  on  10/20  at  12:01 AM

@ Yamara:  It seems to me that your complaint is that the show didn’t justify Joan’s reasons for wanting/having/keeping a baby.  Therefore the presumptive explanation for why they would do such a thing is to cater to a (perhaps unreflective) fan base.  My point is that, IMHO, the show has not in fact established definitively that Joan wants, will have, or will keep a baby.  If that is true, there wouldn’t be anything to justify yet.  And, also IMHO, allowing Joan’s reasoning to remain mysterious might even actually be fitting as a depiction of unapologetic choice, whereas dramatizing that reasoning might undercut the character’s well-established attribute of sphinx-like reticence. 

(Are we ever shown any character’s “deeper aspects of motivation,” for that matter?  Have we ever gotten a window onto Peggy’s “deeper aspects of motivation” for wanting what she wants, or is it even clear what that is?  We see Don grappling with his deep motivations, but also botching how to handle those, or misunderstanding what they are.)

I don’t think the show is prone to divulging a lot of depth, which is actually kind of fitting, given that its whole premise relates to manipulating people’s desires, stroking their consumerism, and asking them what they really want while giving them something else.

Fine, you don’t see it the way I do, no big.  But I really don’t think that any of this deserves tsk-tsking and tut-tutting about naive interpretive habits.

Comment #166: FlipYrWhig  on  10/20  at  01:14 AM

Hey anybody notice Don’s attorney is pretty much a classic MRA? Every time he’s on, he’s encouraging Don to screw Betty over somehow or to make no concessions to her, even in his children’s interest, and then impugns Don’s masculinity when he resists. Every time.

Comment #167: snobographer  on  10/20  at  01:16 AM

Wasn’t talking about the show there.

Comment #168: MDrew  on  10/20  at  01:23 AM

...of course we critique the show and the characters.

Comment #169: MDrew  on  10/20  at  01:35 AM

Well if I knew a guy like Don who was dating somebody like Faye and suddenly dumped her to marry somebody like Megan, I’d probably criticize that decision. Maybe not out loud.

If I knew somebody like Peggy who was settling for somebody like Mark, I’d probably encourage her to keep looking.

Comment #170: snobographer  on  10/20  at  01:44 AM

Okay, I tend not to make such judgments my business but to each her own.  But I also wasn’t just talking about simply giving voice to one’s own reaction to someone’s relationship choices.  As i said, i was trying to engage your explanation of how things wer ein the 70s etc - making political critiques of others’ relationship choices (whom they choose, not how they treat those they’re with)  I don’t think that holds water, but again, that’s just my opinion.

Comment #171: MDrew  on  10/20  at  02:54 AM

So never critique men’s decisions to dump age-appropriate women who challenge them to be better people for servile young things who kiss their asses, no matter whether said men are real or fictional and no matter what sexist institutions and shallow self-interest these decisions are obviously based on and no matter the larger effect of these decisions. Got it.

This issue didn’t go away, by the way, and I never said it did.

Are you afraid you’re being guilt-tripped for your mail-order bride or something?

Comment #172: snobographer  on  10/20  at  04:08 AM

No, you don’t got it, because I never told you what to do.  I said yes, we critique fiction.  I said judging others’ relationship decisions isn’t my thing, but it can certainly be yours.  And, yes, i said i think there are some problems with judging people’s decisions about who to have as romantic partners short of marriage through a political lens.  But I also said that, too, is just my opinion, and clearly you can do that; no, I’m not saying “never” do it.  I just happen to think there are problems with it.  That is all I’ve said; it’s exactly what I’ve said, and if you just go and loo, you’ll see it’s exactly what I’ve said.  You had discussed the ‘70s and ‘80s as if the conversations and critique around them you were describing were left back there, and something else had replaced them or at least that was my impression of what you were saying; I wasn’t sure.  So I’ve just been trying to draw you out on that in this. I guess I follow you now.  But, can I ask, if nothing’s changed in terms of how you look at these things, then what’s up with the reference to other decades?  Why not just say what you think now for the sake of clarity?

Comment #173: MDrew  on  10/20  at  06:26 AM

“no matter what sexist institutions and shallow self-interest these decisions are obviously based on and no matter the larger effect of these decisions”

I guess what I don’t see, and again, it not saying you can’t see it, is what sexist institutions a man’s decision about whom to date or dump could be based on, at least that aren’t legitimate in the context of a personal decision about whom to date.  Does a person simply have to date only people of a certain type in order not to run afoul of a feminist critique of his actions in that part of his life - every man in the developed world, everywhere?  Or, why dating decisions aren’t rightly based mostly in self-interest (it’s dishonest to be/stay in a romantic relationship for the sake of another person; though finding a person’s understanding of his own interests to be shallow [caring only about looks, for example] is certainly a legitimate critique).  I agree about larger effects in some instances (i.e. such as Don clearly not caring about the effect of his decision on the workplace), but as a general matter, it seems to me that dating is a private decision, and one that we mostly try to carve out space in which to make personal decisions that are right in that context, and not make all the consequences of those decisions relevant to those decisions, though certainly important consequences (i.e. effect on kids, etc.) always have to be considered.

Comment #174: MDrew  on  10/20  at  06:45 AM

@173 - I said, “These arguments continue to this day, but I think the sides have gotten less obvious, or more blurred. Though that might just be my perspective.”
@174 - Never said anything about what a person “has to do.” I’m just critiquing Don Draper’s shitty choices and the narcissism and crusty old sexist institutions that drive those shitty choices. And as far as broader effects, I’m not just talking about the workplace.

Comment #175: snobographer  on  10/20  at  08:48 AM

Yamara@154

This is pure speculation. All we know of Joan’s motivation for wanting the American Dream is an odd jumble of hints: an embarrassing skill at accordion, unflinching and reacting with skill when a foot is mauled, two previous abortions, and that “there better not be” a chapter about her in Roger’s memoirs.

Joan’s strength is in knowing her ground and her limits—knowing things before she’s asked, so she can come off flawless in any social situation.

I think you’re conflating the difference between motivation and (for lack of a better way to put it) random things that have happened or skills that Joan happens to possess.  That Joan is hyper-competent within the office setting is established far beyond any need to argue about that.  That she derives what satisfaction she finds in life from that is also pretty well-established.  That Joan also buys into the man/kids/home mythology is also established, and it was only luck that put her back into the SCDP arena after the reasons she married Dr. Rapist fell apart when it turned out he was both a meathead and ham-handed as a surgeon.  I submit the reasoning for keeping the baby under these circumstances and in the social and gender climate in which she lived is pretty obvious and along the lines I have already stated, at least absent any actual evidence about her “hidden” motivations.  Furthermore, before you go looking for deeper, darker theories on this score (What exactly would these “other” motivations be? Is she a Soviet spy intentionally bearing a deep cover operative who must have Roger Sterling’s genes?), please come to grips with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam’s_razor

Comment #176: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  10:41 AM

#123: snobographer

You forgot to mention how the whole thing started - Betty was babysitting Glen, and he went into the bathroom while she was on the toilet and started at her. She had to yell at him several times to get him to leave.

I always interpreted her agreeing to give him the lock of hair as trying to make up for his feeling embarrassed.

Comment #177: ttintagel  on  10/20  at  10:46 AM

FlipYrWig @107,

Interesting point. I hadn’t thought about that.  I should point out that the episode begins with Dr. Faye awaking Don by opening a lighted door, and ends with him staring into the darkness while Megan sleeps, instead of resting contentedly while she does.  Does that mean he’s now awake and aware (thanks to Faye) or that his conscience won’t let him sleep?

@MDrew,

And if you see this whole concept as the most ridiculously hackneyed and trite interpretive framework for serial drama, then you will gag when you hear it because it’s also the only human dynamic anyone ever talks about for every major dramatic TV character they ever encounter.

(snark) As opposed to “middle aged guy tries to recapture lost youth by sleeping with a beautiful young woman” which has never, ever been seen before. (/snark)

Oh, please.  The only way that cliche could be any less trite would be if Megan injected Don with a serum to turn him into a giant catterpillar, and even that’s been done by The Venture Brothers

This is even more disappointing given that Don used to have a firm stand against office romances. Don himself sneered at Roger for marrying Jane after Roger’s heart attacks; now he’s doing the exact same thing for the exact same reasons. He’s not only standing still: he’s regressing.


Yes, that choice is “realistic”, just like Midge’s becoming a junkie is “realistic”; that doesn’t mean it’s a smart decision, or one that’s above all criticism.  It’s always ‘realistic” to take the easy way over the difficult way in the short run; in the long run, taking the easy way usually leads to disaster. That’s why so many people are saying “WTF?”

To paraphrase a classic conversation;

ROGER: No one can stand to see me happy!
DON: They don’t think you’re happy. They think you’re foolish.

A lot of people think Don is being foolish.  But hey, if you only like shows where the characters stay the same year after year, then there are lots of “Roadrunner” cartoons out there.

Comment #178: Blue Jean  on  10/20  at  10:47 AM

snobographer@155: All possibilities, but I think plenty “interesting” or “compelling” events happened in 1964.  Just as two examples, the arrival of the Beatles (which a lot of people thought they were going to go over in some way and skipped) and the passage of the Civil Rights Act jump to mind.  But yeah, it would be a shame from a history enthusiast perspective to skip 1966.  (Ah, Star Trek in particular…the sci-fi geek in me reels at the possibilities of that being worked in somehow, even if just for a small scene.)

Still, I’d by lying if I didn’t say 1968 in particular is what I’m looking forward to, may it not be until at least season six.

Comment #179: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  10:53 AM

I guess what I don’t see, and again, it not saying you can’t see it, is what sexist institutions a man’s decision about whom to date or dump could be based on, at least that aren’t legitimate in the context of a personal decision about whom to date.  Does a person simply have to date only people of a certain type in order not to run afoul of a feminist critique of his actions in that part of his life - every man in the developed world, everywhere?  Or, why dating decisions aren’t rightly based mostly in self-interest (it’s dishonest to be/stay in a romantic relationship for the sake of another person; though finding a person’s understanding of his own interests to be shallow [caring only about looks, for example] is certainly a legitimate critique). 
Comment #174: MDrew on 10/20 at 05:45 AM

Ah, the old “if feminism has to infect every part of life, then I’ll have to date hags and fatties!”

Thanks for finally spelling it out.  No, feminism doesn’t mean that women get to vote on who you date and marry.  It means you actually learn that women are people so you can make decisions with that in mind, rather than using their conformance to patriarchally-approved roles as a guide.

As a result you might date a hag or a fatty, and like it.  Desire is rather moldable.  The criticism is both of Don and the patriarchal society that has molded his values and desires.

Comment #180: oldfeminist  on  10/20  at  01:52 PM

Frankly it was actually painful to see Faye’s reaction. But she is better off since she would have to endure Don’s personal growth. If someone had children and potential partner that is clunky with kids, that is a good reason to break up. Though I think Faye was unfairly put in a position where Sally was in a rage. Hopefully Faye won’t become bitter and embrace victim hood and move on to a better choice next time.

Don retreated from himself. He may get back into heavy drinking. Megan is not all that honorable. I still think she will stray before Don does. He needs a hard lesson.

Don is in remedial karma class. I work with people who have been in prison, so I always want to see redemption. I would strongly recommend my woman friends to avoid Don. He has to get burned by Megan because he has not learned his lessons. Alpha males go for the wish fulfillment woman because they can. Alpha Males are not sensitive and never will be until maybe they run into a hard wall. many alpha’s don’t seem to understand the eternity of electronics, aka Brett Favre and Tiger Woods. I wonder if if Tiger’s bad golf was due to guilt or humiliation.

Sophisticated educated people don’t attribute characteristics to gender, race.

Also age difference is not that important. Look at Dennis and Elizabeth Kucinich. Elizabeth is super smart, accomplished, kind, wise, and sweet. They truly love each other. Dennis is also very fit and youthful.

Comment #181: PatrickNM  on  10/20  at  02:12 PM

After thinking about it some, I’ve decided:
Meh. Dr. Faye can do a LOT better! We probably won’t see it on the show, but she’ll find someone much more suited to her.

Comment #182: kajey  on  10/20  at  02:26 PM

kajey@182: Dr. Faye is one of a very few people who knows Don’s big secret, she has now been royally screwed by Don in more ways than one, she has every reason to detest him, and could do him some pretty severe damage.  I’d be surprised if we’ve seen the last of Dr. Faye…and unfortunately, in the Mad Men universe (as in the real one) what people deserve and what they get are usually very poorly correlated.

Comment #183: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  02:43 PM

I think you’re conflating the difference between motivation and (for lack of a better way to put it) random things that have happened or skills that Joan happens to possess.  That Joan is hyper-competent within the office setting is established far beyond any need to argue about that.  That she derives what satisfaction she finds in life from that is also pretty well-established.  That Joan also buys into the man/kids/home mythology is also established, and it was only luck that put her back into the SCDP arena after the reasons she married Dr. Rapist fell apart when it turned out he was both a meathead and ham-handed as a surgeon.  I submit the reasoning for keeping the baby under these circumstances and in the social and gender climate in which she lived is pretty obvious and along the lines I have already stated, at least absent any actual evidence about her “hidden” motivations.  Furthermore, before you go looking for deeper, darker theories on this score (What exactly would these “other” motivations be? Is she a Soviet spy intentionally bearing a deep cover operative who must have Roger Sterling’s genes?), please come to grips with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam’s_razor
Comment #176: Felix Culpa on 10/20 at 09:41 AM

Yes, I think Joan would have been more blithe had Dr. Meathook been a better “catch,” but would she have remained so?

While she is often mysterious, I’d say in one way, her motivations are as obvious as Peggy’s for working—they both like it.  Rarely is it questioned why a man would want to have a work and do well at it.

The issue for her at SCDP is that her circle of power and influence, and the approval she gets for her job, are both declining.  Even when she gets her title-only advancement, it’s as she’s handing out mail, not even a little ceremony or a memo sent out to everyone about it.

And as for motivations to have children, she did look at the mom in the waiting room, supportive of her daughter, may have been thinking how it would be nice to have someone to bond with, support, give advice to, someone who will listen and not reject her as she gets older.

It occurs to me that when she threatened the young men in the office with going to Vietnam and getting killed, that’s a revenge fantasy she’s had about her husband.

Comment #184: oldfeminist  on  10/20  at  02:44 PM

oldfeminist@184: The tragedy of Joan is that she does love work and derive satisfaction from it, and is made to feel (by social expectation, what have you) that this is aberrational and doomed to long-term failure.  That what she needs is a rich and handsome husband and domestic bliss.  Yeah, if McRapey had turned out to be less…rapey and incompetent, I guess…Joan might have developed more along the lines of Betty Draper/Francis, i.e., securely married to a handsome, well-respected, affluent man…and utterly miserable for reasons she only dimly perceives if she perceives them at all.  Functionally, that story has been told in this show already though, so I think Joan is intended to make a similar albeit different point.  Joan is miserable and thinks her failure to achieve the Betty Draper/Ossining lifestyle is the cause.

I’ve known too many miserable people in life who thought that a baby was the solution to their marital problems, their loneliness problems, or what have you.  (In many respects, the Joan/Greg marriage reminds me uncomfortably of my own parents’ marriage…I was conceived around the time my mother was becoming uncomfortably aware she was miserably married to a medical student, who incidentally, went on to military service after finishing his residency.  My earliest memories are of living on base.)  Babies don’t make pre-existing problems go away: they make them worse.  I think Joan does not understand this and will be unhappier for it, particularly under the circumstances.

Comment #185: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  04:22 PM

I’ve been thinking about Joan’s pregnancy over and over, and I’ve decided that I actually don’t get why she would want a child. It is expected of her, of course, and we know Joan finds appearances very important, and we’ve already seen her compromise on a really big thing in order to keep up the facade in this relationship (staying with Dr Rape).

But she’s also practical! I always got the impression that she does things when she can get something out of it. She uses that pokerface to deal with people at work, to keep her powerful position there, to save the company for crises. If we knew that she REALLY WANTED a child, her behavior would make more sense - she tells people what they need to be told, and the rest of the time she’s just dealing with it on her own, silently and efficiently like always.

But why the kid? I don’t buy that she’d have a child just to keep up appearances, because what would she get out of keeping up that particular appearance? What exactly would “seeming like a good wife” enable her to do? Nothing more exciting than “seeming like a good secretary” would (because that appearance makes it possible for her to essentially run a company). I just don’t think she’d be satisfied only with the social status, and she usually doesn’t kid herself about what she wants. And I’ve never gotten the impression that she’d find childrearing rewarding. She likes playing games and moving people around like chess pieces, but you can’t do that to children. So, is she having a kid just to have someone to talk to? That makes more sense, I think, but it’s unbelievably tragic.

Comment #186: phoenix  on  10/20  at  04:34 PM

phoenix@186

But she’s also practical!

In the work context and all other things being equal, yes, Joan is practical and supremely competent.

But, the decision to keep Roger Sterling’s love child and pass it off as her physician husband’s (particularly under all the other circumstances) is almost by definition an impractical thing to do.  Whatever her reasoning, Joan is making this decision from an emotional and irrational place, and not out of cold competence.

Comment #187: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  04:43 PM

Well, it’s kinda practical, when you consider that Mr Rapist Man might never come back. It’s not unlike Joan to use an opportunity, is it? She’s pretty convinced that he’s going to die, so this is really her last chance to have a kid with him, if that’s what she wants. I just don’t get why she thinks she wants it (if this is indeed what she’s doing, this pregnancy is a huge mystery). She doesn’t seem to really want a kid and I don’t think we’ve been shown a strong enough reason for her to delude herself. I think such a reason, in Joans case, would have to be bigger than “well it’s simply expected”.

Comment #188: phoenix  on  10/20  at  05:00 PM

phoenix@188:  There’s a difference between actually wanting a child and believing as a result of programming, social expectation, and pure misery that you want a child.  I don’t think Joan actually “wants” a child.  The show has never given us any real evidence that she particularly likes children or has any affinity for taking care of them.  (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong on that score.  Greg doesn’t count.)  There is plenty of evidence that Joan has believed for some years that landing the right husband and embarking on a trophy-family career is what she wants though, and she was prepared to say goodbye to Sterling Cooper entirely (despite the fact it was the single source of gratification she had in her life) to achieve it.  In fact, she did say goodbye to Sterling Cooper to get it.

Comment #189: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  05:18 PM

Felix Culpa #189

I just don’t understand what she’s hoping to get out of it.

Self-respect, because she’d be doing the “right thing”, like Trudy Campbell? No, she gets that from her job, and she’s never been known to celebrate motherhood. Respect from others, like Betty Draper? Well, from who? Noone at SCDP would care (noone important, at least), and she has no other social life (so, no other people to seem normal in front of). Value in the eyes of her husband? Maybe…

Of course the patriarchy is doing this, I just don’t think we’ve seen what exactly it’s doing. What has happened to Joan to make her do this? With Faye or Peggy or Betty, we know there was a choice (children or career?), we know they’ve thought about it, we know what they did, and their decisions fit in with their general personality. I don’t feel that with Joan, she’s acting out of character. This is not how she usually reacts to pressure. Something may have happened to throw her off course (now or earlier in life), but we haven’t even gotten a hint, so that’s why I’m suspecting it might be bad writing or leading up to something. I’m really hoping we’ll be getting some insight into the mystery of Joan’s personality in the next season.

Comment #190: phoenix  on  10/20  at  06:07 PM

phoenix@190

I just don’t understand what she’s hoping to get out of it.

I don’t think Joan understands what she’s going to get out of it other than that she sees it as a panacea for the general unhappiness she feels.  It’s not being done on a rational, equal, “cost/benefit analysis” basis.  And as someone pointed out upthread, Peggy herself was very close to settling for a complete douchebag this season rather than someone actually more calibrated to make her happy and accommodate her career.

Even the smartest and most competent people can be pressured or hounded or browbeaten into making “traditional” choices.  A lot of them don’t even realize that they are being browbeaten into it.  They really believe (and are repeatedly told at home, at school, in church, and in the workplace) that the way to happiness is traditional heterosexual marriage, kids, and (particularly for women) approved domestic bliss.  Joan, despite her intelligence and competence, has never been able or willing to make the cognitive leap into truly questioning what makes her happy and why.  She knows work fulfills her, but she can’t honestly convert that into a viable life choice for herself.  She thinks a Barbie/Ken lifestyle is what she wants and needs…and is becoming somewhat resentful that she hasn’t achieved it yet.  People in that kind of misery have a tendency to double down on it.  In other words, when everything doesn’t come up roses they think a kid (or another kid) or some re-commitment to the traditional nuclear lifestyle will do the trick.  That’s more or less what Betty Draper did by trading over to Henry Francis on the assumption that what she needed was a real white knight husband figure, and not the philandering imposter Don Draper.  (She was wrong in both instances.)

In short, nothing “happened” to Joan to make her make these decisions other than a lifetime of training, expectation, and false consciousness.  Those things can lead even the best of us into terrible decisions that we believe will ensure our happiness while actually destroying it.  It makes for good drama precisely because we see how stupid it is from our privileged third-person perspective…and yet we all know people who have done equally stupid things.  Some of us have done them ourselves.

Comment #191: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  06:27 PM

177: ttintagel - Yes I remember Betty was angry and creeped out by Glenn staring at her in the bathroom. Rightly so. Then there was a whole series of events that came after that with the lock of hair and Helen Bishop confronting her at the grocery store about it, and Betty sneaking a conversation with Glenn while he was waiting in Helen’s car, and Glenn hiding out in Sally’s playhouse with intentions to rescue Betty and run away with her… It was like one of those asexual romances between two little kids that’s sort of play-acting but sort of not. It established where Betty was emotionally at the time and why, and was further contextualized when Francine came over to tell Betty she’d heard through the grapevine about Betty slapping Helen Bishop in the grocery store - indicating that this matter was now neighborhood gossip - and Betty turned that conversation to all these other sort-of-peripherally-related matters, like how she feels she’s “earning [her] keep” when men look at her and how she hates that JFK Helen Bishop was canvassing for (deflection much?). It was when we were establishing how growing up like Betty, and getting nothing but how your only value as a person is whether boys think you’re pretty enough to take care of, can thoroughly fuck you up and stunt your emotional growth. It’s also something Betty’s ashamed of and afraid to confront and wants to make go away, which is why she keeps bugging out on Glenn. There’s no other reason for Betty to insist that Glenn’s a bad kid; for all we know, she’s hardly seen him since all that went down.
I’ve always really liked Betty’s storyline, by the way. It’s the only place I’ve ever seen the effects of femininity compliance and the beauty imperative covered in a way that was this nuanced and not ham-fistedly boiled down to simplistic insufferable vanity. A lesser writing team would just have her staring in the mirror all the time.

183: Felix Culpa - I’m more afraid of Megan for some reason. She knows there was something up with that security clearance form and, like she said, it was just standard information in Don’s employment record. Her wheels would have been turning this whole time trying to figure out what it was that set him off about that form. And I think she’d be inclined to leverage it in a pinch, like if Don gets cold feet or cheats on her. Or maybe her parents will do a background check on him; people have done that. Or maybe you’re right and Faye will just report his ass.

Comment #192: snobographer  on  10/20  at  07:11 PM

snobographer@192: Megan is still a largely unknown quantity.  We have seen that she’s intelligent, empathetic, and possibly has some talent…but I think there’s enough evidence to conclude she is more calculated than Don thinks she is.  She is definitely a far more substantial person than Jane Sterling is.  But too early to say if there’s a “dark side” to her or not.  Wouldn’t surprise me though.

Faye, however, doesn’t just have suspicions about Don: she has the goods on him, and a good motivation to use them.  I can only think of two reasons why she wouldn’t, really: one, she’s actually a decent and good person and doesn’t think it’s “right” to lash out at Don and ruin his and his family’s life just because he hurt her.  Two, Faye may fear Don disclosing her breach of professional ethics re: the Heinz thing.  Still, she could probably anonymously complain to the right people in a way that wouldn’t implicate her in Don’s cover being blown…so I think we’re back to Faye is just a good person.

Comment #193: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  07:22 PM

@Felix Culpa

so I think we’re back to Faye is just a good person.

Well, that and (from her conversations with Don about being more open and confronting his past) she really didn’t seem to think that it was as big a deal as he did.  I mean, sure, she could release the information thinking that it will totally fuck him up when he finds out she did, but have no real consequences after that, but that seems out of character for her not just because she does seem to be a good person.  She thinks that his secret is not that big a deal and so I guess that she would/will not see telling anyone as enough of a deal to bother.

Comment #194: Atheist, A Feminist  on  10/20  at  07:29 PM

179: Felix Culpa - second thought, it would probably be costly and litiginous for them to cover Lennon’s “the Beatles are more popular than Jesus” dust-up. But that would be interesting.

Maybe they’ll start with Capote’s Black and White Ball at the end of ‘66 and go into 1967? The Summer of Love, the Boston Strangler (Fillmore Auto), Jimmy Hoffa, the Central Park Be-In, anti-Vietnam demonstrations (big ones!) in NYC including historic statements from MLK, Loving v Virginia, race riots in New Jersey and Detroit, Thurgood Marshall’s confirmation, Brian Epstein’s death…

Good shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967

Comment #195: snobographer  on  10/20  at  07:45 PM

!193&194;- Nobody on this show is an unambiguously good person. And Faye was pretty insistent that Don needs to own up to his shit, so I think she’s still a possibility. But Megan’s suspicion could easily lead her to do some poking around, if she hasn’t started already, which could also lead to trouble.

Oo! Brian Epstein’s death! Peter mentioned at the beginning of The Suitcase that there’s a heart arrhythmia that runs in his family. And he’s kind of the Brian Epstein of the agency and even sort of looks like Brian Epstein. Oh shit, they’re going to kill Peter! Maybe. Who knows!

Comment #196: snobographer  on  10/20  at  07:59 PM

I think I’m more afraid of Megan than of Faye because, like you say, Felix, she’s an unknown quantity. She’s like the female Henry; part of me is creeped out by her and another part kind of wants to like her.

Comment #197: snobographer  on  10/20  at  08:07 PM

Felix Culpa #191

Well, I’m having a hard time expressing myself clearly - English isn’t my first language, and I lack the vocabulary to make any nuanced points. What I’m trying to say is that we KNOW Peggy and the other main female characters much better than we know Joan, so we know what makes them tick, we know how their personal brand of patriarchy-inflicted self-doubt works. I didn’t mean that Joan has to have been through some kind of obvious trauma to believe she has to have a child. As you say, the general social pressure is enough. I’m trying to say that we’ve never seen which of Joan’s particular buttons the social pressure is pressing, if that makes sense. Like, we know that Peggy comes from a very Catholic family, she used to be sexually awkward, she really wanted to prove herself and didn’t want any attention drawn to the fact that she was female, and so it makes sense that she would be in denial about a pregnancy and then give up the kid for adoption without telling anyone. Body awkwardness and ambition were her buttons, and they were pressed.

Which button is being pressed when Joan feels she has to be a mother? For another woman, it could have been the need to be seen as a nice and caring person, the need to prove herself as a woman, the need to be doing something meaningful in a time and place where women weren’t allowed do to anything important except for raising children, the need to be socially accepted, the need to be seen as a real grown-up - neither of these reasons are good reasons to have a kid, and they obviously stem from gender roles rather than an actual want to have a child. I can’t think of a reason like that for Joan, though. The ones I just mentioned either don’t apply to her at all, or she’s fulfilling those needs in other ways (through her work).

Comment #198: phoenix  on  10/20  at  08:27 PM

Heck, even now, wanting a child is considered the “default” status for any female. When people find out I don’t want one, they try to find out what horrible thing went wrong in my life to make me so screwed up. And that pressure is so strong it took me a long time to be able to even articulate to myself that no, I definitely didn’t want one. It was even more so back in Joan’s day. As Trudy said, “What else is all this for?”

Comment #199: ttintagel  on  10/20  at  09:08 PM

All those reasons are good reasons, according to gender roles, to have a kid. And they all apply to Joan. Think about how all along she’s talked up the idea of marrying a successful man, moving out to the country, and raising a family. According to Joan, it’s What You Do. She’s said so herself in so many words, many times.
And she’s not getting much out of her job anyway. For how hard she’s worked and how smart and competent she is, all she’s gotten is a title and a crappy little office that’s commonly used as a through-way. It’s not enough to make up for all the gender-indoctrination around marriage and motherhood she’s obviously been subjected to.

Comment #200: snobographer  on  10/20  at  09:11 PM

@199 - That too! I got it, and I was raised after the second wave by a single working mother who voted Democratic and considered herself a feminist.

Comment #201: snobographer  on  10/20  at  09:15 PM

That’s just it, I can’t really remember her talking like that! Maybe I’m just inattentive. But Joan move out to the country? Really? She probably has asphalt in her veins instead of blood…

Comment #202: phoenix  on  10/20  at  09:28 PM

Seasons 1 through 3, she’s mentioned it several times as part of the whole marriage-and-family woman’s success package. I think at the time, “the country” meant something more like the suburbs, nice little commuter towns in Connecticut, that sort of thing. The lawn, the car, the American Dream.

Comment #203: snobographer  on  10/20  at  09:48 PM

@179 They’ve mentioned the Beatles many times (I’m a fanatic, I notice)  Don bought Sally Beatles records at Christmas and took her to Shea Stadium!  They can’t afford the music to use on the show, I assume, but they’ve hardly ignored them.  Sally’s classic screaming Beatle fan is one of my favorite show moments!  I’m not sure how much more they’d impinge on these kinds of people, though - Sally’s the only logical connection, really.

Comment #204: Mimi  on  10/20  at  10:06 PM

Which button is being pressed when Joan feels she has to be a mother? For another woman, it could have been the need to be seen as a nice and caring person, the need to prove herself as a woman, the need to be doing something meaningful in a time and place where women weren’t allowed do to anything important except for raising children, the need to be socially accepted, the need to be seen as a real grown-up - neither of these reasons are good reasons to have a kid, and they obviously stem from gender roles rather than an actual want to have a child. I can’t think of a reason like that for Joan, though. The ones I just mentioned either don’t apply to her at all, or she’s fulfilling those needs in other ways (through her work).
Comment #198: phoenix on 10/20 at 07:27 PM

Joan is missing spontaneity.  Is that what she seeks?

Her laughter when Peggy called bullshit on the idea that Joan wasn’t letting work be the center of her life was the only recent time I can think of that she wasn’t extremely self-contained around another person.

There’s interesting spontaneity in this episode, and that previous.  Don’s announcement about leaving tobacco.  Don’s decision to take Megan to California, and his decision to propose to her.  The Topaz pantyhose people firing their admen and hiring SCDP. 

Maybe that’s the meaning of Joan’s holding the notepad.  I don’t think anything was written on it.  Maybe she’s considering just letting things happen rather than controlling them, and the people around her.  Not planning everything out, not always putting herself in the safe, right position.

Having a baby is letting her body become something different, something not as pleasing to all those salivating men (despite the “yes, they’re bigger” claim—eventually those breasts will be soft and floppy and motherly).  Having a baby is putting someone else first.  And when that baby grows up, it has its own life, can go out and get foolishly pregnant like the daughter of the woman at the abortion doctor’s.

At the end of Mad Men, there was an ad for AMC’s horror movie lineup.  It featured Christine Hendricks being herself, and the contrast with her usual buttoned-up, controlled character on MM was startling, and very wonderful to see.

Comment #205: oldfeminist  on  10/20  at  10:33 PM

194 & 196: I’m not saying anyone on the show is unambiguously good….however, in terms of general “goodness” and (mostly) pure motives, Faye has to be one of the best characters they have shown.  (Several of Don’s women seem to fall into this category…Rachel Menken and Suzanne Farrell jump to mind along with Faye.)

And I have to admit, speaking strictly for myself, if I had been summarily dumped like that for a person for whom I had recently compromised my professional ethics and who had essentially just got me fired (or at least lost me a lot of business)...well, I’d be really tempted to call the relevant authorities and let them know the whereabouts of a deserter.  But I’ve never claimed to above seeking petty personal vengeance. wink

snobographer@195:  I think the plethora of stuff available is one reason why Weiner decided to go past five seasons.  I think he wants to cover a lot of the history of the sixties, but at the same time, not turn the show into some kind of quasi-“Quantum Leap” where every episode has as an integral part some event or famous historical setting.  Only way to avoid that is to stretch the history out over a longer story.  Seems to be working so far…

phoenix@198: I think snobographer has covered things pretty well in the last few posts.  Let me just add that I think you are expressing yourself very well in English, and that I do not think we really disagree.  We’re just arguing about some particulars. smile

Comment #206: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  10:44 PM

Felix 193 - She doesn’t have the goods.  Neither do Pete or Betty if I recall (maybe they do have some documentation, but I didn’t think they retained anything.)  All together they certainly could make a pretty good case as witnesses, but is it worth any of their time?  Is it really *only* being a good person that keeps someone from going way out of their way to destroy someone who has just dumped them in an extremely inhumane way? Could it also just be that it isn’t worth it, and a level-headed Ph.D psychologist would simply feel that way?

Comment #207: MDrew  on  10/20  at  11:08 PM

MDrew@207:  Sure she does.  Both Pete and Betty can do him in as well, though neither of them find it in their interest to do so.  All it will take is reporting it to the Army or the FBI.  That’s why Don was so frightened of the security clearance: he knew if they looked at his records for more than a glance, his whole identity would unravel.

Is it really *only* being a good person that keeps someone from going way out of their way to destroy someone who has just dumped them in an extremely inhumane way?

Perhaps not *only* that, but it whatever it takes in aggregate, it certainly makes for a better person than I am.  Let me re-emphasize: ALL she has to do is write a letter to the Army (or a federal agency that has to investigate or else pass the info on to someone who will), “This guy Don Draper is really Dick Whitman, he switched identities with Don Draper in Korea and deserted.  He admitted it to me.”  They’ll look into it, and it won’t take them long to figure out the truth once they are tipped off to it.

If Anna were still around to swear under oath that yes, this is the Don Draper I married and divorced, he might weather the storm.  Not now.

Comment #208: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  11:34 PM

The goods are whatever it would take for someone to prove it is the case.  But you’re right about what she could do.

Comment #209: MDrew  on  10/20  at  11:37 PM

I hate to get too colloquial with you, MDrew, but “the goods” are whatever it takes to get the job done. wink

Comment #210: Felix Culpa  on  10/20  at  11:42 PM

There are a lot of steps from making a phone call or writing a letter to the job being done.  Unless you’re just defining “the job” as doing the tip-off.  So if that’s all you’re saying she’d do (and the point is, if it actually is worth it to her to do a lot more than that, but she’s refraining from doing so because she’s a good person, is she really a good person in the first place—are good people inclined to go far out of their way to cause major damage to the lives of people they had heretofore wanted to be in a romantic relationship with after they’ve been jilted?), then, no I don’t think she has the goods.  A lot would have to happen thereafter that is dependent on a lot of other things than the tip-off, assuming by “the job” you mean something like, ‘He gets hauled off to prison.’  That happening requires a lot more goods than what she’s got.

Comment #211: MDrew  on  10/20  at  11:54 PM

Writing or calling the Army and explaining the whereabouts and identity of a deserter is hardly going far out of anyone’s way.  And that’s all she’d have to do to cause a whole tsunami of trouble for Don for a modicum of effort.  He wouldn’t necessarily do time, and any number of things could hapen, but it sure would fuck his life up something rotten.

Thus, semi-algebraically, let “the goods” = “knowledge of the fact that Don is a deserter.”  Let “the job” = “what will inevitably happen if she lets the right people know this.”

However, for my alternate and preferred definition of having “the goods,” see the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OImKPh6N_Lw

Comment #212: Felix Culpa  on  10/21  at  12:07 AM

Well, if the goods just are the knowledge, then I guess she has the goods.  So then we’re not talking about much.  That was the question.  Is the knowledge good enough to get “the job” done was your first way to define the goods.  So what’s the job?  “Fuck his life up something rotten” seems pretty reasonable indeed.  But you say the job is “what will inevitably happen if she lets the right people know this.”  But this collapses it down logically again.  If she tells “the right people” (also undefined, and leaves unmentioned the effort necessary to figure out exactly who those right people are), then something will indeed inevitably happen, but that could possibly be basically nothing - her tip could not be taken seriously.  There’s no particular result of her tipping off the authorities that is inevitable, even including fucking up his life.  To me, the goods would be something that would essentially compel that result, and I don’t think she has that.  Highly likely, perhaps; inevitable, no.  There is certainly a chance the result would not be as we would expect, and it would depend on a lot of things.  If that’s still the goods for you, I’m down with that, but I tend to reserve the term for something more like proof.

In any case, raising the issue of the effort she’d have to exert, and of the goods, though that was separate question, did cloud the issue, you’re right.  Does not doing whatever is necessary to use this information against him make her a good person?  Or does it just make her a good enough person not to do it?  That wouldn’t tell us how good a person needs to be for that.  And it’s possible that doing this would just be objectively not worth it for a person in her position.  Does it take a good person not to do it in that situation?

Comment #213: MDrew  on  10/21  at  01:21 AM

Desertion was punishable by death, though only Eddie Slovik was actually served with it.  It wasn’t a non-issue or never talked about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik

In 1960, Frank Sinatra announced his plan to produce a movie entitled The Execution of Private Slovik, to be written by blacklisted Hollywood 10 screenwriter Albert Maltz. This announcement provoked great outrage, and Sinatra was accused of being a Communist sympathizer. As Sinatra was campaigning for John F. Kennedy for President, the Kennedy camp was naturally concerned, and ultimately persuaded Sinatra to cancel the project.[8]

However, Slovik’s execution had been the basis for a 1954 book by William Bradford Huie. In 1974, the book was adapted for a TV movie starring Martin Sheen and also called The Execution of Private Slovik. In addition, Eisenhower’s execution orders and Slovik’s death by firing squad are included in a scene in the 1963 film The Victors.

Comment #214: oldfeminist  on  10/21  at  01:29 AM

Not saying what he’s into isn’t a very big deal.  The question is just whether a conversation of which you have no record constitutes “the goods.”

Comment #215: MDrew  on  10/21  at  01:47 AM

I think part of what makes this hard to talk about is that when you get down to it, is that this is a wrinkle in the story that just isn’t very plausible.  I love the metaphor of a guy in advertising who simply is a false facade, but I’m not sure why such an unlikely story to get him there was necessary.  It’s always been a bit of thorn in my enjoyment of the show, even though the Korea sequence was itself fascinating in its way.  But a more organic, sustainable backstory of reinvention I think might have served the overall tale better.  I have a hard time buying that he makes it this far with that in his past living a life of such high profile.

Comment #216: MDrew  on  10/21  at  01:56 AM

In any case, getting out of meta-criticism, I wonder if this decision actually is driven mostly by his unwillingness to face up to this problem and not really any pressing need to marry Megan even for the shallow reasons he seems to be doing it for.  His treatment of Faye was amazingly cavalier given that she knows this about him; it almost says, “Do what you will with the information; I’d rather live knowing you have it (I live knowing others do already) than have to undergo the process of reassuming an identity I fled on a timetable that is not my own, under the auspices of a doctor of psychology who is also a romantic/life partner and perhaps future souse.”  Avoiding, unserious, reckless, Don.

Comment #217: MDrew  on  10/21  at  02:10 AM

Faye is the first one to both know Don’s secret hand have nothing to lose by revealing it.

Pete and Bert would have lost the man who makes their successful firm possible. Betty would have lost her children’s father. Rachel would have had to reveal she was carrying on with a married man.

Anna’s a little more complicated. Don was her means of support, but she might have been able to get by on whatever she was entitled to as Real!Don’s widow. However, I’m willing to bet that it was both easier and more lucrative for her to take Dick’s money than to go through all the government red tape to get the pension, plus more exciting.

Comment #218: ttintagel  on  10/21  at  11:54 AM

But Joan move out to the country? Really? She probably has asphalt in her veins instead of blood…

Heh, I’ve been thinking the same thing about Pete. The only way Trudy’s going to drag him to Connecticut is over his dead body. He loves the city so much he doesn’t even want to leave it for a vacation.

Comment #219: ttintagel  on  10/21  at  12:02 PM

ttintagel@218

Rachel would have had to reveal she was carrying on with a married man.

Rachel knew about Don’s real identity?

Comment #220: Felix Culpa  on  10/21  at  01:24 PM

@220 - No.

Comment #221: snobographer  on  10/21  at  03:16 PM

@221 - I didn’t believe so, but it has been a while since I have reviewed everything in Season 1.

Comment #222: Felix Culpa  on  10/21  at  04:27 PM

@220 No, he mentioned it vaguely, but never told her the whole story, I think she got less than Faye.

Comment #223: Mimi  on  10/21  at  06:24 PM

He didn’t mention anything about his identity to Rachel Menkin.

Comment #224: snobographer  on  10/21  at  10:29 PM

Yes, I should have been clearer. Rachel didn’t know about the identity theft, but he did tell her some of the sordid details of his childhood - more that he probably ever told Betty before she forced him to.

Comment #225: ttintagel  on  10/22  at  10:37 AM

I don’t get the betrayal over Joan not getting an abortion. I can see not liking the cliche, but it’s not like Joan didn’t spend the whole beginning of the season trying to have a baby. This was well set-up and her decision is perfectly in character. (Remember, this is the woman who was insecure about everyone knowing she was thirty years old and who walked on air at the idea of marrying a doctor (almost a surgeon !) even though he’d raped her. If the idea that someone could actually want to have a child is so inconceivable, well “because that’s what you do” was always a good reason for Joan before.)

So anger, disappointment, sure. Betrayal and aggrieved ranting ? Come on.

Comment #226: Caravelle  on  10/23  at  08:24 PM
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