I get it: redstate has gone code red because the white house is in the black.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

I hope we don’t get anymore lone nutcases like this one - but idiots like Rush and Beck don’t care as long as they keep making that bank ...

It’s not math that’s hard, it’s the truth, which has a well known liberal bias.

The wingnuts believe guns have the same relationship to The Government that the Ten Commandments have to public morality: They’re the only thing that keeps the country from falling into utter chaos.

In both cases it seems they are often self-fulfilling prophecies…

to show that while Daily Kos’ terrible 25 million visits a month is nothing compared to the awe-inspiring awe that is Redstate’s 1.6 million.

Well, hey, 1.6 million well-armed Redstate afficianados can take 25 million latte swilling pussies who just want to talk about their feelings any time!

I just talked to my grandmother yesterday, an old-school yellow dog Democract, who believes FDR was the greatest president ever, and who never expected to see both Great Depressions in her lifetime.  She sincerely believes that:

* Obama wants to make America “socialist”, by which she means he wants to tell us all what jobs we have to do (a.k.a. communist).

* The government is buying up all the gunpowder as a first step in eliminating gun ownership.

My question is:  where is she getting this from?  She has no internet and claims not to watch Fox News.  I assume she’s hearing it from my uncles who DO watch Fox News.

Anyone else know where these ideas are coming from?

KL, could be family or social connections, yeah. Does your grandma work? If so, maybe her co-workers. Or, maybe chain emails or a website if she has internet access. It could be a lot of things. It might be useful to research a bit more to understand exactly where it really is she’s getting this stuff.

OK, sorry, no internet.

Maybe the radio?

Otherwise, just look at her social/work/family/local connections, that can probably give you an idea.

atheist, is Fox running a “gubmint taking our gunpowder” story?

They did this the day after some guy shot three police officers after going off the deep end because he feared Obama was going to take away his guns?  Classy.

I had more than one former fraternity brother tell me on Facebook before the election that they were stocking up on guns and ammunition—given that I come from rural Louisiana, that they have them already is not a surprise. Neither is the idea that they were afraid civil society was in danger of coming apart at the seams if what the people they listened to were telling them were to come to pass. Who are these people? Why, Glenn Beck and G. Gordon Liddy and the “writers” at WorldNet Daily and the Free Republic among others. That’s where this stuff is bubbling up from, and it makes its way into conversations at family gatherings and workplaces as well.

I haven’t defriended anyone over this—I’m hoping to sell them some books when my poetry comes out next spring—but I have made use of the new feature that lets you hide their updates.

If you click for the charts with the varied axes, you might notice that Kos has already had more hits in the first few days of this month than RedState has in any of their little bars.

Classic how to lie with graphs.

Obama wants to make America “socialist”, by which she means he wants to tell us all what jobs we have to do (a.k.a. communist)...  My question is:  where is she getting this from?

I have two answers to this, that sort of answer different questions.

One thing that allows people to believe that Obama is going to make the USA “socialist” is that for the past century or more we have prided ourselves on deliberately obscuring what socialism is.  This means that the vast majority of Americans, even a majority of self-avowed liberals and people who ought to be well educated about different kinds of governmental and economic systems (i.e. anyone with a college degree, if not a high school diploma), have no idea what socialism actually is and thus anything that scares them or seems vaguely ominous or foreign can be called “socialist”.  You don’t need to be plugged into Fox News or the conservative blogosphere to absorb this, because you’ve likely been drinking it up from birth. 

My other answer is more about how right wing memes travel (especially in red states, which is where my experience lies).  All you need is a few people who read conservative blogs, listen to Rush, etc. in any given community.  They start bloviating the talking points, which then trickle down to people who are less political or more moderate in their beliefs.  After a while it can be hard to separate out the truth from the wingnut lies.  I grew up considering myself politically liberal, and yet still swallowed all sorts of right wing ideas which I didn’t realize were even political talking points.  It was really only upon moving to the north and getting involved with leftist politics on my extremely liberal college campus that I started to realize the extent of the brainwashing.  Might this be part of what’s going on with your grandmother?

atheist, is Fox running a “gubmint taking our gunpowder” story?

The local paper the other day ran a story about how right now there’s an ammunition shortage because of increased demand by ... ahem .. “gun enthusiasts” AND the two wars that happen to be going on right now.

I didn’t do more than skim the story, but I could see how in the wrong hands a story like that could turn from “the government is buying ammo for the wars” into “the government is buying up all of the ammo to keep people from getting it.” 

Does your grandma listen to the radio by any chance?  I know that before he died, Paul Harvey was someone who would subtly spread wingnut misinformation - intentionally or otherwise.  If she’s a radio listener, she may be getting info from whoever replaced Harvey on her radio dial.  Believe it or not, there’s a good chance she could be listening to someone like Glenn Beck these days and not even realize what a nutter he is.

If she’s a Yellow Dog, she might also be watching Lou Dobbs.  A lot of the YD Democrat types I know think Lou Dobbs is great.  Sigh.

Funny how people screaming “Socialism” are taken seriously, yet people who suggest that the far-right are a bunch of Fascists are cranks.

KL:

These things grow from the grass roots.  A few years ago, a rumor spread that the government was going to ban primers (caps) which would make reloading ammunition impossible.  They were scarce for months and months.  It was utterly untrue.  I’ve never been able to find out where it started. 

Of course the vast right-wing conspiricy encourages such non-sense.  The chances of a restrictive gun bill getting through the U.S. Senate are, well, zero.  That doesn’t stop the tin-foile hat types.  The less evidence there is for something the more they believe it.

* Obama wants to make America “socialist”, by which she means he wants to tell us all what jobs we have to do (a.k.a. communist).

* The government is buying up all the gunpowder as a first step in eliminating gun ownership.

People seem to really lack any idea that there’s a difference between a.) liberal Democrats b.) European socialists c.) Soviet Communists and d.) The Giver.

Also, did you hear the government is buying up all the beef in order to make us all vegetarians?  It’s the single largest purchaser after McDonald’s.

These assholes who fear socialism, besides not understanding it in the first place, are completely obsessed with zero-sum games and zero-tolerance policies.

We don’t have to go 100%, assholes.  We have Social Security.  We have the Postal Service.  We have police departments and fire departments.  For some reason these ideas frighten you, but most Americans are happy to have them.

We could have a national health care system that covered everyone and saved money.  It’s true, the for-profit insurance companies would have to be put out of business in the best plans, but those types of weasels will find other ways to cheat people out of their money.  Having national health care could very well set off a new wave of entrepreneurship as people no longer fear leaving a job they hate b/c they need the insurance.

What?  More capitalism from socialism?  How is this possible?

——————
There is no way they can legitimately deny that their fear-mongering in a large part led to the cop shooting.  They cater to those whackaloons, and they cannot be allowed to weasel out of their responsibility for it.

For all of recorded history the institution of patriotism has been defined as one man and one gun.  This is how God wants it to be.

And now you libruls are trying to destroy the core of the American patriot by taking away our guns, our gunpowder, and our primers, all before confiscating our guns and forcing us to take anger management therapy.

We need to have a constitutional amendment that properly defines patriotism as one man and one gun so American patriotism cannot be destroyed by you ultra leftwing, progressive, librul nazis who want to open up patriotism to anyone…

I forgot to add that they’re going to take away our guns.

Happiness is a warm gun…

Wait, MikeEss, a man only gets ONE gun?  That sounds like the gubmint just took away all his other guns.  SOCIALIST!

If a man is right with God and a good American Patriot, he can practice polygunny, as long as he stays in God’s good graces…

If you play “Yes We Can” backwards, you get “dictatorship of the proletariat.”

I’m just saying.

25 million latte swilling pussies

Now, I like coffee as much as the next girl, but…

“25 million latte swilling pussies

Now, I like coffee as much as the next girl, but…”

Best one all day. Thanks, B

What amuses me most about the “theys gonna get mah gunpowder!” is that it is very easy to MAKE gunpowder ... you just need some skills and easy-to-get supplies for doing so, just like our founderers had!

is that it is very easy to MAKE gunpowder

The real insidious threat to survivalists is the environazi movement to eliminate lead tire weights, which my reloader buddies used to melt and cast into bullets.

[/rugged in montana]

I hate to admit it, but I miss Rugged in Montana…

I had more than one former fraternity brother tell me on Facebook before the election that they were stocking up on guns and ammunition

I’ve been stocking up on hatchets and machetes in case of Zombie Apocalypse, now I have to stock up on hand guns and easily available ammunition against the Frat-Boy Uprising?

This whole “preparedness” shtick is getting expensive.

For all of recorded history the institution of patriotism has been defined as one man and one gun.  This is how God wants it to be.

The Hebrews didn’t have guns, and the Egyptians enslaved them. I think that says it all.

“The Hebrews didn’t have guns, and the Egyptians enslaved them.”

Exactly…

I *love* how Beck already has put his “out” out there saying “I’m a rodeo clown”...

Just an entertainer, etc. etc.

So they’re well aware of the irresponsibility of saying the things they say- at least Beck is- but they still want that out.  Not that they could ever be held accountable for these whackjob actions mind you - if that was the case Ann Coulter would be in prison - but there should be some on the right who do understand that it’s not wise to rile up the really insane whackjobs with a personal armory out there.

Ugh I don’t know… I’m rambling and the (eliitist!) espresso hasn’t kicked in yet.

The wingnuts will attack. I am sure they have already tried to attack, and the Secret Service has thwarted it. The Secret Service is an effective counterterrorist orginization. They do not educate their enemies by boasting of their successes.

Let the wingnuts strike first. Let them slaughter innocents. The public will turn against them and they can be crushed.

You don’t need guns to fight the power. As the War Nerd has said: Cameras matter more than guns, and social networks matter. I was prepared to struggle against Blackwater if they came to town after Ike. Turned out they never came. We pullled together and maintained order on our own. Best defense against oppression from the outside is to have a well-ordered community that can handle itself during a crisis. If you can maintain order on your own, there’s no excuse to send in the troops.

I can’t stand Kos.  As much as I believe that these right wing haters are formenting violence, I can’t stand Kos and wouldn’t defend him against George Bush himself.

People seem to really lack any idea that there’s a difference between a.) liberal Democrats b.) European socialists c.) Soviet Communists and d.) The Giver.

I swear Lois Lowry set (real life) Marxism back a hundred years with that damn book.  And Number the Stars was so fucking good…

I hate to admit it, but I miss Rugged in Montana…

+1.  He was a fantastic parody troll.  Please tell me he didn’t get banned?

I can’t stand Kos.  As much as I believe that these right wing haters are formenting violence, I can’t stand Kos and wouldn’t defend him against George Bush himself.

???

I think Moulitsas can be quite full of himself, but hell, who wouldn’t be if they were in his shoes?  He’s easily the most successful progressive blogger in the history of the intertubes.  He’s not necessarily my favorite, but I can’t think of anyone who has achieved greater notoriety and success outside the blogosphere because of what they’ve done inside the blogosphere.

The dude is the Michael Jordan/Wayne Gretzky/Tiger Woods of the netroots.

Anyone else know where these ideas are coming from?

Well, the advertisers for Guns & Ammo aren’t complaining. The paranoid style in American politics has become the psychotic style. I’ve mentioned here that my brother-in-law bought an AR-15 before the election, and has been stocking up on a particular kind of ammo—two boxes a week—under the assumption that Obama Will Ban Bullets.

Remember, too, that every time you express concern at a mass shooting, it just makes it more likely that a gun-hoarding nutjob will take it to mean You’re Coming For His Guns, and go murderously batshit. Gotta love that self-perpetuating mechanism.

Absolutely, pseudo.

I’m pretty impressed by the feedback loop going on here too.  A few months ago, hell just a few weeks ago, nobody was seriously discussing any new gun laws other than the paranoid right.  Then some people on the paranoid right, fearing new gun laws among other things, went on rampages.  Now more people outside the far right really are discussing the possibility of new laws, though most seem to be agreed that even if desirable it could not happen given the political climate. 

But any new discussion at all only confirm the paranoiacs’ fears… leading to more violence.  Which changes the political climate towards new gun laws, further inflaming the paranoia- and spreading it to people who fear the far right.  Meanwhile, Beck et al feed the idea of mass armed rebellion- which if it ever actually came anything close to such a thing would in fact be the perfect justification for a mass confiscation of weapons. 

It’s like the Branch Davidians stockpiling illegal weapons for fear of the US gov’t destroying them- and it’s the stockpiling of illegal weapons that gets the feds’ attention in the first place.

It’s stupid and crazy.  They’re turning “they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold, dead hands,” from a proposal to a promise or a dare.

(FWIW, they can have MY gun when they show up at my door with more and better guns and demand I give it up.  I’m not dying for a 9mm pistol.)

DTG - in my opinion, he is worse than full of himself. 

This is what he said to the Politico last week, for a hit piece they did on CODEPINK:

“Code Pink has never been more than a nuisance — an ineffective, self-indulgent, obnoxious and tone-deaf organization,” said Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas.

“It was never relevant before, and it certainly isn’t relevant today,” Moulitsas said. “I’m sure their antics make them feel good about themselves, make them feel as if they’re accomplishing something, but in reality they’ve done nothing but piss off everyone around them, including potential allies.”

I know that we can debate some of CP’s methods.  I joined a local CP group in 04.  I had tried other anti-war groups locally, but didn’t click with the other members.  My local CP group was fabulous, and I made what will be life-long friends there.  So I am not a die-hard CP’er.  I can take fair criticism.  But what was that?  It was soo sneering, so full of contempt.  I smelled sexism, really smelled it, so I did some googling:

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2005/06/mad-as-hell-and-not-going-to-take-it.html

Check out what he said about women who objected to an apparently, pornified ad he ran.  And you know, I wonder, where did Kos march to end the war?  I stood on street corners in the rain, and the cold, and on some nice days too.  I got cursed at, threatened, and that was before the gathering of eagles started following us around.  What did Kos do?  Isn’t he the equivalent of a right wing message board warrior?  Not to say blogging agaisnt war doesn’t have its place, but to piss on the field people?  To say CP was never relevant?  Well, I marched in an anti-war march through downtown Manhattan, hundreds of thousands of people, and not one word was in the NY Times the next day.  That is what we were up against during the height of the Bush/Iraq war popularity.  CP got attention.  You can say what they did, and do, that you think is wrong or over the top.  But to not talk about what they did that was right, that was good…well, who the fuck does he think he is?  So that is why I feel the way I do about Kos.  I always thought he was an arrogant prick, that’s how he comes off in any interview I ever saw of him.  But after this, I feel he is something worse than that.

RobW - I love your post.  It’s very nail on the head, and ends on a funny note.

Caton, you’re wrong. Kos thinks street protest is ineffective, and Code Pink especially so. I tend to agree with him. I think they’re just this side of PETA in terms of stupidity and ineffectiveness.

What did Kos do?

Only provided a forum for organizing and fundraising that helped elect a bunch of good people. Yes, he accomplished a hell of a lot more than you did without getting his socks all soggy. You may think that makes him a bad person, but I don’t.

And we’re not even getting into the pie fight bullshit, because, well, shut up, that’s why. It’s no proof of anything about his personality, or his attitude toward women.

I’ve been a member of the dKos community since the early, pre-Scoop days, and Kos is just a guy who started a Web site that took off like a wildfire.

I see.  So I’m wrong because you tend to agree with Kos, and I’m wrong because I should just shut up.  Well, that’s convincing.

Kos got no one elected.  They call him a kingmaker.  I say; show me the King.

If you have such disdain for activists, that is your right.  But your certainty in your rightness and in Kos’s effectiveness is backed up by nothing.

As for the “pie fight bullshit”, that speaks volumes.  Let’s look at Kos’ statement again:

” Apparently, having two women throw pies at each other, wrestle each other in a sexy, lesbianic manner, then having water splashed on their ample, fake bosoms is degrading to women. Or something like that.

Whatever. Feel free to be offended. I find such humorless, knee-jerk reactions, to be tedious at best, sanctimonious and arrogant at worst. I don’t care for such sanctimony from Joe Lieberman, I don’t care for it from anyone else. Some people find such content offensive. Some people find it arousing. Some people find it funny. To each his or her own.

But I am not Lieberman. I won’t sit there and judge pop culture and act as gatekeeper to what I think is “appropriate”, and what isn’t.

And I certainly won’t let the sanctimonious women’s studies set play that role on this site. Feel free to be offended. Feel free to claim that I’m somehow abandoning “progressive principles” by running the ad.

It’s a free country. Feel free to storm off in a huff. Other deserving bloggers could use the patronage.

Me, I’ll focus on the important shit.”

Yeah, that’s says “nothing” about his personality or, more importantly, his attitude towards women.

Hamletta, you and your attitude is very typical of Kosland.  Look at what that community, including the great, not to be questioned, Kos, did to Cindy Sheehan.  When she was embarrassing Bush she was great, and they couldn’t get enough of her.  She started questioning a Democrat, Nancy Pelosi, once the Dems took control of Congress, and she was torn to pieces by the Daily Kos. What gave you the right?  Anyone who isn’t willing to be an automated Democrat ass-licker better shut up!  Just shut up!

Why don’t you grow up?  What gives you the right?  You’re nothing more than a fan.  An out of control, fan.  In fact, this attitude displayed towards the Master by many in the Kos community, is no different than the Bush worshippers. 

But I won’t shut up.  Kos is a sexist, and nowhere near as important as he and his acolytes believe.  the idea that peace activists, ALL peace activists according to you, including the Iraq Veterans Against the War, are embarrassing the Daily Kos community, because the Daily Kos community are the serious people, is so fucking funny, that under different circumstances I’d laugh until I peed my pants.

No one but yellow dogs takes Kos seriously.  You’re not swinging independents anymore than CODEPINK is.  Physician, heal thyself!