Apparently, the “related to Charles Keating” thing is a little shaky, so we may not want to lean on that too much until it’s proven.  Fortunately, Joe the Plumber has given us plenty to work with already.

The war in Iraq, torture, failed Reaganite economics, the release of this ad ... is there any stupid and self-destructive initiative McCain won’t approve to get the Oval Office?

I have zero problem with Senator Obama’s tax plan. Raising top marginal rates to 35% and 39% is not going to hurt people in those brackets. Back under Clinton, we used to pay those rates and somehow people survived.
But why not as some have suggested go back to Eisenhower,and do something like put the top rate at 90% for taxable incomes over $500,000. Today, if a married couple filed jointly and had a taxable income of $500,000, the tax would be $146,575, or a total of 29.3%. At 90% marginal rate, the tax would be $224,840, for a total of 45%. That is if the cutoff levels stayed the same as they are today.
Or, you could just say 90% of anything over $100.000, and then the $500K couple would pay $360K,
or a total of 72%. Gee this gets fun quick! How about 90% of all of it! Then they would only have $50K
after taxes.

This was actually a not-shitty strategy by McCain ... seeing as how they are both (understandably) tied to teleprompters during their campaign stops now in order to avoid gaffes, the only way to get something good enough to take out of context is a conversation with a “concerned voter”.

The bright side is that after so much bullshit from the GOP, I’m hoping that more people take everything they say with a bag or two of salt.

They really, REALLY think “spread the wealth around” is a very scary/scoff-worthy statement.  It seems perfectly proverbial and innocuous to me, only “socialist” to kooks and paranoids.  It’s like blasting Obama for saying that “children are our future” because it evokes the fetal batteries that power The Matrix.

But why not as some have suggested go back to Eisenhower,and do something like put the top rate at 90% for taxable incomes over $500,000.

I’d be curious to see where you got your $500,000 figure from.  When I start thinking about confiscatory tax rates and 90 percent tax brackets, I’m thinking about guys like this.  I’m sure we’d all be weeping at his sad tale of how he only got $40,000,000 instead of $400,000,000 when he retired because of the mean ol’ liberals.

No, that’s not a typo—the man got $400 million from the company when he retired.

I don’t get especially irritated if CEO’s make big bucks if they did great things for their companies. It’s when they run the company into the fucking ground and still make out with billions that grinds my gears.

The $500K was arbitrary. I just picked a number that was up there, but probably not too far off. One could argue that no one should have more than X time poverty level. If poverty level is $20K, then lets be generous, and let the most well off have 10X poverty level. No one should need more than $200K in a fair society. So my example of 90% of all above $100K is actually to agressive. Just jigger tha tables so nobody can ever get more than $200K.

I don’t get especially irritated if CEO’s make big bucks if they did great things for their companies.

I get irritated either by the undeserving or by just insane amounts.  I mean, Steve Jobs rescued Apple and turned it into a thriving company—where’s his $400 million upon retirement?

Shareholders need better control, that’s the real issue.

So my example of 90% of all above $100K is actually to agressive. Just jigger tha tables so nobody can ever get more than $200K.

Uh-huh.  Why are you starting to sound like a parody of what a right-winger thinks a liberal thinks?

Nobody wants 1950s tax rates. Rates that high really *did* stunt the economy—that’s why Kennedy and Johnson cut them (in a responsible matter).

can anyone really do anything by themselves that should be worth 400 million dollars?
there’s big bucks and then there’s the buy-several-countries bucks

“can anyone really do anything by themselves that should be worth 400 million dollars? “

Philanthropy. That’s where it ends up when it gets that obscene.

“Spread the wealth” sounds much less OMGSocialist than “redistribute the wealth” and they have started wholeheartedly embracing the former.  Seems odd to me.  I do so wish, though, that Obama had pushed McCain on the fact that the Bush policies have very successfully redistributed wealth upward.

I was forced to listen to Rush Limbaugh at a clients site today while working around there. Was he on a bent or what. Bitching about Obama, bitching about NAGS and ‘love your body day’ (because no one else will - Limbaugh)

Lies about Joe the plumber, lies about the tax plans, lies about the environment, lies about ‘fat women’, lies about Palin, lies, lies, lies…

He was jumping to so many topics I could almost hear his chair spinning faster and faster.

Just one HUGE hate-on for everyone mentioned above, and more…

And people listen to him? I wanted to get out of there and wash my ears (and mind) out so bad…

Not a parody. A true believer in Dworkin and Rawls works. That is just my opinion of what it might look like if expressed through the taxing mechanisms. No part of me can be described as “right leaning”.

Speaking of typos, has anyone else noticed that the word “everybody” is spelled wrong in that ad?

Obama is a marxist. I hope it’s not too late to stop this wolf in sheep’s clothing.

McCain is gaining in the polls again, within 3 now.

The relationship to Keating (actually, to his son-in-law) has been debunked by Kos and the piddling little tax bill was sent to the wrong address. 

What, exactly, though is the relevance of the comparison to Sammy Davis Jr. (actually, to his tap dancing)?  Please explain in DETAIL.

What, exactly, though is the relevance of the comparison to Sammy Davis Jr. (actually, to his tap dancing)?

Fred Astaire was a tapdancer too.

The funny thing here is that Joe T. Plumber is one of those guys who’s currently in the bracket where he’ll benefit from Obama’s tax cuts, and would need to be a lot richer than he is now to hit the quarter-million net, but projects himself into a position where he’d cross that threshold. That’s not an uncommon phenomenon: when you poll people just over the median, they tend to think they’re in the upper percentiles.

Fred Astaire was a tapdancer too.

Please explain in DETAIL the relevance of “Fred Astaire was a tapdancer too.”

We can only wish that the MSM would have taken as much of an interest in Senator Obama.

I agree, comparing Obama to Sammy Davis is an insult. To Sammy Davis that is. He wasn’t a racist like Obama.

Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes ,

You’re even kookier than your name.  You bet McCain will not win in Chicago, where thug politics rule the day, Obama fits in well. ACORN, Daley, Ayers, Resko, Flegar, Farrakhan and Wright….all racist thugs like Nobama. Jew hater Farrakhan thunks NoBama is the messiah.

“We can only wish that the MSM would have taken as much of an interest in Senator Obama”

They’re covering for Obama, they want him to win.

We can only wish that the MSM would have taken as much of an interest in Senator Obama.

Obama, Clinton, McCain are all public figures.  Palin - though a governor - was a relative unknown who was thrust into the spotlight only relatively recently.  Like “Joe the Plumber”, it’s no surprise to see the MSM going all out for a little while, and then settle down.

“Spread the wealth” sounds much less OMGSocialist than “redistribute the wealth” and they have started wholeheartedly embracing the former.

Of course, both are far catchier than the more accurate “make sure that the people who disproportionately benefited during the previous eight years get a little less, and the people who got screwed get a little more”.

Please explain in DETAIL the relevance of “Fred Astaire was a tapdancer too.”

No. If you’re a moron, I really can’t help you.

You bet McCain will not win in Chicago, where thug politics rule the day, Obama fits in well. ACORN, Daley, Ayers, Resko, Flegar, Farrakhan and Wright….all racist thugs like Nobama. Jew hater Farrakhan thunks NoBama is the messiah.

I love how KLH thinks that Chicago is a state.

I love how KLH thinks that Chicago is a state.

... and it will EAT HIM IN HIS SLEEP when he’s not looking.  Racist evil messiah NOBama will surely LOSE because he does not accept the simultaneous 4-corner time.

I take back everything I said about banning KLH yesterday.  Now that he’s brought the crazy, he’s way more entertaining than when he was trying to pretend he actually wanted to discuss things.

I’m glad KLH wastes time here instead of someplace where some people may mistake his opinions for not-crazy.

Menopause,

I purpose mentioned Chicago rather than Illnois.

Obama is a marxist.

Why not.  Groucho, Chico, Harpo et al are wayyyy funnier than the Three Stooges!

C’mon, folks.  Going after KLH is the intellectual version of beating up the handicapped kid in class: sure, it’s easy, but it demeans one in doing so.

Menopause

Oh, you sooo funny!  Calling a woman a physiologic state of change is such an insult!  Hahahahah!

I wonder how much unemployment insurance, self-employment insurance, and child support Joe the Plumber owes?

“I wonder how much unemployment insurance, self-employment insurance, and child support Joe the Plumber owes?”

Perhaps, none.

Speaking of typos, has anyone else noticed that the word “everybody” is spelled wrong in that ad?

Everbody is the band that was formed from the remants of Everclear and Everlast (although I think one of those was formed from the remants of House of Pain…).

“Vote McCain, and help your House of Pain get even bigger!”

I purpose mentioned Chicago rather than Illnois.

Because you’re under the impression that a city of 3 million people will swamp the votes of the other 9 million in the state?  Funny how that never happened before 2004 and Illinois had Republican governors until they all got indicted and convicted.  Then a Democrat was finally able to win the governorship.

Any other excuses you’d like to make for Republican corruption and criminal activity in Illinois?

Perhaps, none.

Perhaps none, yes.

If he owes one cent, however, I’m sure that we will all find out now that he has divulged his plans to buy an expensive business.

No. If you’re a moron, I really can’t help you.

There’s certainly a reason you can’t (or won’t) explain it, but it certainly has nothing to do with my intelligence.

“If he owes one cent, however, I’m sure that we will all find out now that he has divulged his plans to buy an expensive business.”

Yes, because digging dirt on Joe-The-Plumber is far more important that vetting the Obamassiah.

Mkay, Bagley, so who threw the first mudpie here?

There’s certainly a reason you can’t (or won’t) explain it, but it certainly has nothing to do with my intelligence.

Ah, Henrietta.  So very confident on such little evidence.

KLH, Bagley, HGT, what is this, a troll convention?

KLH, Bagley, HGT, what is this, a troll convention?

We just need Rumpy to have a troll quorum!

This whole “Joe the Plumber” is complete BS. It will COST joe a little over $250,000 to acquire the business. That’s not the same hing as saying that Joe will EARN over $250,000 annualy from his busins and thus be subject to higher taxation. If there were a business that could EARN me a quarter million a year and I could BUY it for a mere 300,000 and I could scrounge that scratch, I’d keep my mouth damn shut about it because such a business would be GROSSLY UNDERVAULED, and I’d want to keep that a secret and buy my way to easy street.

A business that can earn its owner a quarter million a year with not much uncertainty about future revenue is worth MILLIONS. There is no way in hell Joe is going to be taxed higher by buying this business. And if there is, he should STFU and buy the business and count himself lucky he got a cash cow so cheap whateve taxes may befall him.

I have a little business proposal: If Joe’s potential plumbing company is so cool that he might earn over $250,000 owning it, I propose that we pandagon readers scrape together $320,000 to outbid joe. The company will be run as a PC or Co-Op. I will be the manager, but will pay myself a salary of no more than $35,000 until I’ve paid back all your shares at 6% interest annualy. I have experience as a wholesale book and music buyer, retail manager, and fish display tank technician. If Joe’s bidness is as good as he says it is, you need not fear losing your money and once I pay yall off ahead of schedule in a few years, I’ll be a millionaire.

But this is all just crazy talk. If Joe’s business was as good as that it would have been bought already. And at a much higher price than Joe dreamed of.

In case you didn’t understand me: Suppose ther were a rentai propert you could acquire where rent paynents minus taxes taxes and maintenence would exceed the price you paid for the property in less than two years; YOU"D BUY THAT PROPERTY. If you could brove to a bank that this was the case, they’d be fools not to shell out whatever money you asked for. You’d have no trouble paying it back and keeping a tidy sum for yourself. And what if you were a complete idiot who managed to blow it? The bank could make back as much or more than your interest payments would have been bu selling this undervalued property,

Whole point here is that cst is not the same as revenue. Do Joe and McCain not understand this? If they don’t, they are incompetent, if they do they are liars.

I once respected McCain enough t think he was a liar. I am not so optimstic now.

Chances are, if Joe owes child support, he’s not buying any business.  Deadbeat parents generally jump from one cash-paying job to another to avoid the garnishment that their child support arrears causes.  Problem solved on both ends.

And if you don’t know the significance of the comparison to Sammy Davis, JR, you’re either a moron or a racist.  Take your pick.  I think Mnem was being generous by assuming you’re a moron.