I drive a truck for a living (which is why I am James from somewhere new every time I call)

Tangential to the point, and I have on-topic comments to make as well, but I couldn’t let this one go. 

I don’t know which part of this he’s making up, but, yes, truck drivers are, in fact “from” somewhere.  Which leads me to believe either he’s weird/creepy/otherwise sketchy and doesn’t want to identify himself by saying where he’s actually from (probably because he calls in about something ridiculous every . damn. show), or he’s making up the downhome “I’m a truckdriver” thing out of whole cloth.  One of my oldest friends growing up had a truck driver father, and while he was on the road a lot, yes, he did have a home to come back to, and a family living there full time.  Truck drivers aren’t nomads.

I think this argument about voting against one’s own self-interest is a loser for the Democrats.  They’ve been playing that tune for years and it is pretty insulting.  The assumption that people who don’t vote the same way as you do it because they aren’t voting for their own interests is pretty condescending and arrogant and, consequently, insulting.  It is basically calling those voters “stupid” and they aren’t so dumb that they don’t get that.  Maybe they define their own interests differently than you define their interests for them.  That doesn’t make them dumb and it doesn’t give anyone the right to be condescending and insulting towards them.

I hope this time round the Democrats will figure out how to win an election rather than figure out how to lose one they should in in a walk.  Obama will be the presidential nominee.  Here’s hoping he is smarter since his “cling to guns, God” remarks and won’t say something that sounds condescending (regardless of whether or not it is true, because he’s going to get “the treatment”, just like Clinton did, now, while the press is going to give McCain a pass for saying the dumbest things imaginable).

Don’t condescend to Clinton supporters and talk about their self-interest.  I have heard Clinton supporters say it over and over:  give me a reason to vote FOR Senator Obama.  They want to support him, but there needs to be a reason.  It is not unreasonable to ask Obama to reach out rather than assume those people won’t vote for McCain.

For a lot of white people, especially here in the South, it’s not black people that are the problem but successful black people. They’ve been raised in an environment where “those people” have a set place, i.e., beneath whites in the social order. You can be a dirt poor redneck, but at least you aren’t black. That’s the bottom of the shit pile. And even if you’re a middle class white Southerner who isn’t overtly racist and even considers yourself above all that, there’s that little voice in the back of your head that screams when you see a successful black person, ‘It’s one of them stealing something that belongs to a white person!” It isn’t rational and if you’re aware of it, you can combat it. But that takes a level of self awareness not all that common.

No need to worry. In 2000 McCain voters all swore up and down they wouldn’t vote for W. and they came home.

The ‘92 fight between Clinton, Tsongas and Brown was pretty dirty but the people cam home to the party then too. This is just initial anger/disappointment.

Count me as one who strongly suspects that a large chunk of this “I’m pissed that Obama is a sexist, so I’m voting for McCain” stuff—I dunno, maybe 30% of what shows up at the blogs, on CSPAN and talk radio—is GOP ratfucking.

Not that there isn’t some real sentiment like this out there, among real white Democrats. But I’ll bet anything (except quatloos—I’m a little short this month) that a lot of the most illogical-sounding stuff is not even “real”, in the sense of “coming from people who would ever vote for a Dem on the first place.”

DBK: I have heard Clinton supporters say it over and over:  give me a reason to vote FOR Senator Obama.

Well, he’s the Democratic nominee. Is that enough? No? How about his policies are mostly the same as Hillary’s, except where they’re better and he didn’t vote for the war. How about the fact that Obama hasn’t discarded every one of his core values and slid to the right just to win votes but managed to do so without compromising with the Republicans?

And someone who falls for the race bait or the gay bait or any of the red meat that Republicans throw out there and shoots themself in the foot, just so some queer or foreigner can’t get ahead is the definition of stupid.

Sorry to double post and not just read the whole thing straight and leave a simple and clear comment, but per my above comment, I think this guy is making the whole anecdote up.

The idea that black people at a truckstop somewhere in Mississippi would actually dare speak to a white trucker, let alone heckle or race-bait him, is BULLSHIT.  That kind of thing just doesn’t happen. 

I know people (everyday ordinary white southerners) who get their panties in a twist if a black person dares to ask them for directions.

In fact, said ordinary white southerners are prone to take a situation like a black person saying hi or asking for directions and twist it into a completely fictitious fish story where the black person actually tried to rape them, or said something unthinkably threatening/offensive/racially-motivated to them.

Pam, this is such an important post.  I don’t have an answer. We are simply seeing a deep seated truth about people played out before our eyes. That truth is that it is easier to be generous and politically a risk taker at a distance than it is up close—its easier to fight for civil rights when someone else’s ox is gored than your own, its easier to push for busing in someone else’s city than yours, its easier to say you will vote for someone not of your ethnic group when the choice doesn’t seem to involve any sacrifice of privilige.  I think a lot of liberal white people have falsley congratulated themselves on their disinterested and non racist liberalism as long as they could still experience the privilige of being the leaders and they are truly shocked and frightened by the still undigested realism of a new movement towards equality that isn’t white led and white dominated.  Just like there were a lot more men advocating for women’s rights before women actually seized control of what that would mean and who would get invited to talk at conferences or run for office.

For conservatives and a certain class of ethnic white workers non whites are a real and acknowledged problem—a source of conflict, a source of crime, a source of “the welfare state” and they are pretty up front about it.  For white liberals and middle class people racism and racist policy prescriptions were something we either thought we were fighting against, or are largely over with and a problem of lower classes/conservative politicking.  Now we are going to be brought face to face with the fact that we were just pretending, in many cases that we thought or wanted to yield priviliged positions to african americans in politics or society.  I think a lot of white responses to Michelle Obama especially, but also to Barack Obama are based on the fact that they don’t even pretend to be “humble” about their struggle and their successes. They don’t even pretend to be waiting for permission from the white hiearchy or from white voters. They’ve presented themselves as ready,w illing, able and intending to break barriers and rule. And on some fundamnetal level (and I would say this also happened to all the first women who broke barriers politically) that is felt as an intolerable level of arrogance by some white voters.

Well, its going to take some time and we are going to have to both let people kind of vent their anxieties and then get past them.  I advise myself all the time not to jump down people’s throats but to let them work this shit out for themselves. Sometimes people have to vocalize what is sub vocal and hear for themselves how it sounds before they can really grasp what they are thinking and rethink it.

aimai

It is basically calling those voters “stupid” and they aren’t so dumb that they don’t get that.  Maybe they define their own interests differently than you define their interests for them.

That’s an interesting thing to say.  I personally have never understood why some people will choose the candidate who’s (for example) against gay marriage and abortion even though that person’s other policies also mean that the voter will lose his/her health insurance and his/her job will be shipped out of state.

I could kind of understand it in the 1990s when we were mostly pretty comfortable and didn’t think we had to worry about economic problems thanks to the internet bubble so we had the luxury of worrying about lifestyle issues, but what would the rationale be for voting strictly along social conservative lines now that we have the mortgage crisis, rising unemployment, and $4 gas?

Gotta take exception to your point that Obama and McCain are really, really different. Sez who? This is one of the enduring fallacies of this primary.

First, I defy you to write out in clear simple sentences what Obama stands for in such a way that I cannot contradict you using his words on every point. Voters can sense when they are being scammed and Senator SnakeOil is a master scammer.

Second, let’s take a fact-based look at Obama. Progressive Punch rates every Senator, and rep, according to their voting records using an algorithm that compares each to how the Progressive Caucus, yes there is one, votes. Obama is usually around 40th. The Hill in the mid 20s.

Third, Obamacans are low-info voters. As related to point two there has been a lot of discussion about who Obama should pick for Veep, as if The One was gonna listen to us, and Senator Webb’s name kept coming up only to be shouted down by Obamacans who where irate, irate, that such a non-progressive legislator would even be considered!

Folks, Progerssive Punch has consistently ranked Webb as MORE progressive than Obama.

So what?

Well, as every election shows the ReThugs destruction of the school system and their stranglehold on the MSM pretty much allows them to dictate the narrative of every election. This one is simple: Barkey can whup McSame.

Hey! Tweety and PumpkinHaid have been telling you that for months.

Watch that turn on a dime as the corporatist press goes after Barry the Glass Jawed with Wright, Rezko, Auchi and MEchelle 48/7, got TIVO now, and the American citizenry finds out just who Barry ‘really’ is. It’s truly strange that so many feel like they ‘know’ Senator Obama when given the tools of modern media in use by every candidate it should be obvious that this is something the voter can never do.

Obama is a blank canvas, mostly, upon which the McSame campaign can paint any picture they want. And there’s nothing we can do about it due to Obama’s arrogance.

I doubt me the picture that emerges will be a winning one.

Gotta take exception to your point that Obama and McCain are really, really different. Sez who? ... blahblahblah

This is one of those instances when I realize that just because “someone is wrong… on the internet!” is not enough of a reason for me to waste my time.

Wait, I thought the right wingers said Obama was ranked as the “most liberal” in the Senate?

Which is it, Republicans?

I couldn’t agree more with aimai.

People are really going to have to confront their underlying anxieties and beliefs this year.  It’s such an amazing thing to finally have happen and it is going to get uglier before it gets better.  In the end, though, I am optimistic that we will finally confront our racial demons and make a start at getting past that awful history.  And we have to let them, while, at the same time, standing fast against intolerance.

In my personal life, throughout the course of my adult life here in Western PA, I confront this all the time.  Or, at least, I used to.  I use the past tense because my family, friends, and neighbors have finally come to the realization that I do not tolerate any of the deadly “isms” and should they give voice to any in my presence, they will be forced to confront their “isms.”  I love them and am never a scold about it, but I always make them attempt to articulate what lies behind their stereotypes about others, to review their actual real life relationships with people they know who technically fall into those supposedly hostile categories.  I may not change every mind, but I have been told by more than a few of my “white, hard-working, blue collar” family, friends, and neighbors that I made them think more about what they say, how they view people and events, and to be more sensitive to the difficulties that, really, we all have in common.  Most people are good and want to do the right thing.  With some discreet guidance and some time to come to terms, they will.

What opponax said—here’s my likely scenerio: James was being a total troll in a gas station somewhere, saw a black person eyeing him warily as he swaggered out to his vehicle, and made the rest up out of his fevered imagintion. (Not that I have relatives like this or anything.)

And, A. Citizen?  Those relatives?  They’ve fed me, point for point, every point on your list.  What is that, a mimeograph sent out by your Republican HQ?  OOOO!  No one Kno-o-o-ws anything about Obama!  He’s so sca-a—ary!! 

Because, you know, none of us here know how to use the Net, or do research?  Because it’s 1922, and we haven’t been taught to read?

Second, let’s take a fact-based look at Obama. Progressive Punch rates every Senator, and rep, according to their voting records using an algorithm that compares each to how the Progressive Caucus, yes there is one, votes. Obama is usually around 40th. The Hill in the mid 20s.

I just looked at Progressive Punch (www.progressivepunch.org) and, surprise surprise, you’re a liar:

Hillary Rodham Clinton:  91.05%  20/100
Barack Obama:  88.56%  25/100

25th is not 40th.

Oh, and McCain’s numbers are 13.9%, which makes him 60/100.  But I’m sure you’ll come up with some reason that voting for the 60th most progressive senator is way more progressive than voting for the 25th most progressive one.

My parents are in their sixties both of them are lifelong Democrats and right now both of them are saying they wont vote for Obama.  I think they may change their minds as they are afraid of what McCain might do to the economy, especially as it relates to social security and medicare. 
Both of them say they don’t trust Obama, and I think they don’t trust him because he doesn’t live up, or down, to what they expect a black person to be.  In other words in their mind black people are not supposed to care about white people, so he must be faking it when he talks about programs that would help the entire country, including white americans. 
It is hard to explain but it seems that if you have low expectations of someone when they exceed those expectations it is like you assume they are cheating, if you know anyone who teaches high school you can see this at work whenever they grade papers.
The Clinton 30% ers will probably come around and vote for Obama,probably by telling themselves Obama is a different kind of black person.

If anyone cares, Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) is the #1 most progressive senator according to Progressive Punch.  The most progressive Republican is Olympia Snow, who comes in at #51, but there’s only one Democrat behind her (Tim Johnson of South Dakota) and then it’s all a sea of R’s.  Pam’s lovely Senator Jim DeMint comes in dead last, with a progressive voting percentage of 1.77.

I don’t get the whole “Obama is the same as McCain so I’ll vote for McCain” shtick. I mean, there’s a reason why *republicans* don’t say “oh, I guess McCain and Obama are the same so I’ll vote for Obama” and it isn’t just that they prefer the white face on their imperial presidency.  Its because it *isn’t true.*  No democratic candidate can ever be identical to a republican candidate in their policies or their world outlook—because it would be much easier to pursue those policies as a republican and suck up that lovely lolly as a republican than as a dem. Especially as a black dem—at least for a while, ask Alan Keyes. So on the face of it the troll up above who insists that it is “obama” voters who are “low information voters” is just nuts. You can’t get any lower on information than to assert that a lifelong progressive and liberal who has organized for liberal causes in urban/minority areas is identical to a bought and paid for corporate stooge like McCain whose history in Arizona is rife with long connections to corrupt republican politicians and corporations (keating five? fife symington? etc…etc…etc…).

aimai

Wait, why does Progressive Punch give one set of numbers in list format, but a different set if you look people up individually?

Here’s Clinton’s individual page.

[url=“http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?search=selectName&member=ILIII&chamber=Senate&zip;=&x=10&y=11>Here’s Obama’s individual page.</a>

<a href=”]Here’s what you get when you hit “Select by Score” from the front page.[/url]

WTF?  Do they not update?

Ooops, sorry for the coding problem:

Here’s Clinton’s individual page.

Here’s Obama’s individual page.

Here’s what you get when you hit “Select by Score” from the front page.

WTF?  Do they not update?

Oh, sorry for the double post but I had to come back to highlight John Rove’s incredibly important comment just above mine:

“It is hard to explain but it seems that if you have low expectations of someone when they exceed those expectations it is like you assume they are cheating, if you know anyone who teaches high school you can see this at work whenever they grade papers.
The Clinton 30% ers will probably come around and vote for Obama,probably by telling themselves Obama is a different kind of black person.”

There is something going on in people’s heads which isn’t straight up racism in the classic sense of “won’t vote for the black guy” but is aligned with the way people think about class, and race, and identity politics, and other kinds of associations and whether those associations and interests can be blended or not.  Each reluctant democratic voter has a different reason for their reluctance—for some its the notion that an “elitist” can’t care about “the poor” or “the working class.” For some its that “a black man” is really so secretly angry at white americans that he can’t care about “white people” or will actively work against them. For some its that a “guy with a harvard education” can’t really know what regular folks are like. Or a guy with a dynamic wife must secretely be cheating on her. Or a christian guy must secretely be a muslim.  Or all politicians are liars. Or you name it.  We are going to have to approach each reluctant voter on their own terms and try to figure out how to ease their fears, however absurd.  Its not that Obama can be all things to all people. Its that people have to be made to see that they settle for politicians who are a pretty good fit all the time—why make an exception this time when the stakes are so high? If you agree with Obama and the dems 10 percent more of the time than you agree with mccain and the republicans there is simply no way you should ever consider voting for mccain. You’ve had eight years of seeing how dangerous it is to let other people choose the leader of the free world on the basis of vague feelings of liking or disliking personality issues.

aimai

So, what Mnemosyne’s comment says is: The reason for Hillary Clinton’s supporters to vote for Barack Obama in November is that his policies and progressiveness are close to identical to hers, across the board, whereas McCain is and has been hostile to the vast majority of liberal/Democratic/progressive/feminist causes.

I might have to give up the Internet for the general election…I don’t know if I can stand much more of these damn trolls!

A. Citizen writes:

I don’t believe in executions, but life in prison without possibility of parole would do okay, so that person can never ever operate a motor vehicle again…

Always good to hear from the Naderites. I thought you guys went into hiding after 2000!

WTF? Weird mispost. What was intended:

A. Citizen writes:

Gotta take exception to your point that Obama and McCain are really, really different. Sez who?

Always good to hear from the Naderites. I thought you guys went into hiding after 2000!

I thought from the start (i.e. around last August) that Obama was the ideal African-American candidate because none of his ancestors had been enslaved by white Americans. I think in the back of many white voters’ minds is the idea that a black leader would want to get even—call it reparations, chickens coming home to roost, or what you will. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al. never had a chance, because of the fear of black demands for reparations. In Obama was a candidate even less threatening than cuddly Bill Cosby. So the fears were mostly suppressed, until the Rev. J. Wright’s tapes entered 24/7 rotation on Fox News. Then white people discerned resentment of historic mistreatment of black people in Michelle Obama—somehow this is more shameful than Cindy McCain’s history of stealing drugs from charity to feed her habit.

So, a main undercurrent of anti-Obamaism is whites’ fear of what blacks will do to them once they get the upper hand.

BTW, my senators are Dole and Burr (NC).

Well, I knew it was one of the Carolinas, at least! 

the emotional content that people, because of our PC culture, have buried so deep that they cannot consciously reach them and if they can, don’t feel they can express them?

For what it’s worth, I’m not entirely sure that this state of things is necessarily caused by “our PC culture”.  I think that in racially homogeneous parts of the country it’s because most whites simply don’t have to face or think about non-whites very often, which makes it a lot easier to Other them, and in racially diverse parts of the country it’s the same impulse that led slave owners to claim that they were just trying to “help” black people by keeping them enslaved.  Not wanting to believe that, they, themselves, could actually be so vile and callous.  Even as they behave in a vile and callous manner.

I do worry a bit that we’ll see racist Democrats who will decide to defect to the Republicans to avoid voting for a Scary Brown People… but in the end, I don’t think it’ll be that many, and I think we’ll be better for getting rid of the racists.

I thought from the start (i.e. around last August) that Obama was the ideal African-American candidate because none of his ancestors had been enslaved by white Americans. I think in the back of many white voters’ minds is the idea that a black leader would want to get even—call it reparations, chickens coming home to roost, or what you will.

And the interesting thing is that folks who really, really don’t want to like Obama tend to conveniently forget hisi actual roots and enable themselves to paint him in their mind as a Sharpton or a Farrakhan.

And will hold the “Luo Tribeseman”  “Secret Muslim” “Furriner”  “B. Hussein Obama” in their minds at the same time, in true doublethink fashion.

In fact, said ordinary white southerners are prone to take a situation like a black person saying hi or asking for directions and twist it into a completely fictitious fish story where the black person actually tried to rape them, or said something unthinkably threatening/offensive/racially-motivated to them.

This isn’t totally relevant, but it highlights Opponax’s point about the bullshit-level of the caller/commenter. When I was a kid in rural Florida, once a young Hispanic woman accidentally locked her baby in the car while putting her groceries away. When my dad and I came out of the grocery store, she was going around the parking lot begging people for help. Then, while my dad was picking the lock with a coat hanger, the manager came outside. Someone had gone inside and told the manager that a crazy Mexican was harassing people in the parking lot.

Because she wanted help getting her infant out of locked car. Oh, and just maybe, because her skin was brown.

Do I believe white America is in any danger from “black racism”? Not in a million years.

Obamacans are low-info voters.

Hahahahaha!  As opposed to, what?  Hillary supporters who think John “you trollop” McCain is a friend to women?  McCain supporters who think staying in Iraq will be a winning issue for him?  Help me out here.

I don’t believe for a single second that anyone called that guy a “nigger-hater.”

Oh, and McCain’s numbers are 13.9%, which makes him 60/100.

Holy shiatsu!  Are you telling me there are 40 senators LESS progressive than 13%?

First, I defy you to write out in clear simple sentences what Obama stands for in such a way that I cannot contradict you using his words on every point.

Yeah, I remember how disappointed I was when Obama came out and said “you know what? invading Iraq was a good idea after all.”  ( ( ( ( (

McCain, on the other hand, never flip-flops.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6988.html
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_03/008343.php
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8313.html
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_03/008343.php

etc. etc. etc.

MBL hits that one out of the park. Correct: anyone who can be presumed to think that a vote for Hillary is an incorrect race based vote for the white candidate over the black candidate *really isn’t going to describe it as the “n-g-er hater” vote.*  We don’t call the nazi vote the “kike hater” vote, we call it anti semitic. And we don’t call the Klan vote the “anti mackerel snapper vote” we call it “anti catholic.”

aimai

I’m surprised that any liberal who is unwilling to vote for Obama would vote for McCain rather than voting for the Green Party candidate. The Greens are actually liberal, unlike the Republicans.

WTF?  Do they not update?

From what I can tell, the “arrange by score” page goes by this year’s score, while the individual page puts their lifetime average score at the top.

I don’t believe for a single second that anyone called that guy a “n****r-hater.”

He claims he was called this by a black person, no less.

The lists are different because they are ordered by different criteria - on lifetime basis Clinton / Obama are 20/25.  On 07-08 record, they are 30/45.

My personal half-assed theory on the ‘gut’ feeling that Obama ain’t right:  perhaps it comes down to the feeling he has not ‘earned’ it.  Do we resent the LeBron James’ of the world just a little?

Do we subconsciously think this about Obama - they guy has been in the senate for 2 years.  he speaks extremely well, but has no real accomplishments to his credit. So why should he get the keys to the white house?

I know I thought that at one point early on and I know I will happily vote for him in November, and I most certainly know he ain’t no McSame.

Do we subconsciously think this about Obama - they guy has been in the senate for 2 years.  he speaks extremely well, but has no real accomplishments to his credit. So why should he get the keys to the white house?

Funny nobody says that about John Edwards, though.

Had Kerry won, he would have gone into the vice presidency with the same amount of Senatorial experience that Obama has right now (4 years, btw, not 2).  While obviously the VP and Pres. aren’t the same office, one could argue that you want someone with enough experience in the VP seat just in case something happens to your super-experienced president. 

And, yeah, I’m pretty sure Edwards’ lack of experience was not much of a factor in Kerry’s loss.  It wasn’t discussed much while he was in the primary race (for President) this time.

For what it is worth, I’m a Clinton supporter.  I think she would be a better candidate and president than Obama, and I wish she were the nominee.  I’m disappointed by the outcome of the primary and in some ways even more disappointed by the breathtaking arrogance and gratuitous nastiness that some of Obama’s backers have displayed. 

BUT…...

The fact remains that Barack Obama could hawk up a loogie that would be a better president than John McCain. 

I live in a swing state and know personally a couple of Clintonites who are making noises about sitting out the election or voting for McCain.  I tell them, and will tell as many folks as I can, that if we believe at all in the ideals that make us Democrats, there is one candidate in the race who shares most of those ideals, and another one who wants to crap all over them and get people killed while he’s at it.  It’s a no-brainer.

I on two occasions in different states was called a N*****HATER in Mississippi and a Klansman in Georgia, both of these comments were made by black people and all based on a sticker I have in my window.

Bullshit. Bull. Shit. This guy is lying. Maybe some people yelled at him once or twice, though I doubt it, considering that it’s Hillary’s public supporters, not Obama’s who have made a career of completely trashing the other candidates supporters. Also, the specific phrase he uses seems suspicious. Like if he was in Fairfax district in LA and someone called him a “Kike Hater.” Which is to say, I don’t for a moment believe him.

I’m guessing either A) someone else told him this story and he’s since repeated it enough that it’s now his story, or B) someone yelled at him and he’s blown the story entirely out of proportion, adding fresh new details that only further support his contention that Black people are the “real” racists. I’m guessing “A” is more likely.

This is suspiciously like how ever single Hard Core NRA type I’ve ever known has a story supporting concealed weapons laws, where they happened to be in the bad (black, mexican) part of town and their concealed weapon saved them from a sudden and completely unprovoked attack from a black/mexican attacker.

It’s fiction.

Y’know?  I don’t give a shit.  There are way more nonwhite votes out there than there are bitchy racist white votes, and to the consternation of the latter, they both count the same (Diebold notwithstanding.)

It’s high time for racist white people to face up to the fact that they’re not a necessary voting block anymore and don’t have to be pandered to.  Screw ‘em.

I don’t think Edwards was protected by his whiteness from the accusation that he was untested/had it too easy/was an elitist. I think he got all that and more as a “one term wonder” senator.  That’s not to say that Obama isn’t wrongfully attacked that way, its just that the whole “experience” thing is *always* a loser for almost all dem politicians because the press insists that they are all losers and inexperienced to boot. Always. No matter what their experience.

aimai

someone else told him this story and he’s since repeated it enough that it’s now his story

Another thing I’ve seen over and over in my relationships with “ordinary” racist.

Especially around Katrina.  There was some crazy urban legend going around that black people were shooting at helicopters and boats coming to rescue them.  I kept asking, “where did you hear that?” and “what proof do you have about that?”  and eventually the person would confess that they heard it from someone, who heard it from their dad/uncle/neighbor who was out with the rescue teams.  Except that dad/uncle/neighbor didn’t see it himself, he heard about it from one of the other guys. 

It’s amazing the lengths people will go to believe lies about their fellow humans.

For some, not all - there really is a deep-seated fear out there about being led by a black man, so much so that they’d vote for McCain. They think electing Barack Obama is somehow going to erase white privilege— as if it was possible—and then exact some sort of revenge for past wrongs perpetrated on minorities.

I see the fear of white privilege disappearing - of society changing radically from their youthful days - front and center.  The idea that young people will take over the country from the immortal and eternally young baby boomers and that those young people are increasingly brown and young scares the piss out of them even though they should know better!

This sort of thing makes me wonder what some white people have done that makes them so afraid of retribution.

A note on Obama’s experience - he’s spent about a decade in elected office, around twice the experience Hillary Clinton has. (Chicago politics aren’t exactly the minor leagues, you know. The city alone has an economy the same size as a few American states.)

Also, “no real accomplishments” is a bit of an exaggeration. The only way that someone can say this is by gaming the definition of “real.”

Gator90: I appreciate your honesty about where you stand and that you are working towards the bigger more important cause.

May I ask if your negative expereinces with Obama supporters were in person, online, or both?

As an Obama supporter, I can say that I have seen people go way too far on both sides, but mostly on the internet.

But in person, I have had more than a few Clinton supporters be rude to me because of my Obama button. I swear I didn’t say anything to start it. There were a couple of older women who told me I wasn’t standing up for women and a couple of guys who wanted to tell me in various ways that my vote was a waste because I was voting for a Black Man. I am myself not white, but people never seem to know what I am so I tend to get weird comments.

I am not trying to argue with you. My only point is that people who want to be jerks will be jerks for whatever reason they can find and I don’t think its the standard of Clinton or Obama supporters. Loudmouths tend to get themselves noticed.

Especially around Katrina.  There was some crazy urban legend going around that black people were shooting at helicopters and boats coming to rescue them.

And there was that really ugly rumor going around about ungrateful rescuees trashing relief centers, throwing food in the garbage, and disrespecting volunteers.  All a lie.  If there’s any truth to it, it’s that a few individuals, after being stranded on a roof without food and water, airlifted out, then sent all the way to Texas, were a little irritable upon arrival.  But, of course, a little understandable irritability from a black or brown person in the presence of a white person gets turned into a federal case (and a hideous e-mail rumor).

Not to mention, of course, all these anecdotes are classic examples of the comic on Amanda’s new post.  You’re an irritable asshole vs. Black people are all a bunch of irritable assholes.

Watch that turn on a dime as the corporatist press goes after Barry the Glass Jawed with Wright, Rezko, Auchi and MEchelle 48/7, got TIVO now, and the American citizenry finds out just who Barry ‘really’ is.

Uh, you may not want to count on any big Rezko revelations after this testimony in his trial:

Later in the Rezko trial, two witnesses said that Rezko told them not to worry about the criminal investigation, because the Republicans ”Rove and Kjellander” would get rid of [Patrick] Fitzgerald. Hastert would install a friendly federal puppy who wouldn’t bother the Combine, according to the testimony. “The federal prosecutor will no longer be the same federal prosecutor,” testified Elie Maloof, a Rezko associate who is now a cooperating witness.

Yes, that would be KARL Rove referenced in the testimony.  So, sure, the Republicans can try and tar Obama with Rezko, but they’re much, much further into the Rezko muck than Obama ever was, and we’ve got the sworn testimony to prove it..

JoAnne:

Okay, who let in the name-twisters? That’s one of the things that drives me nuts about most blogs that discuss politics, all the fifth-grade name jokes like “Hitlery Klintoon.”

I HATE name-twisting. The only thing that people who do this deserve is a nice, hard punch in the throat. It’s another piece of evidence in my contention that most people never mentally age beyond about eleven or twelve years old. If you find yourself doing this, you seriously need to grow the fuck up.

This post will probably (rightly) be deleted as irrelevant, but I just have to say that this is the most rational, balanced, mature comment section I’ve seen on any blog in a very long time. Bless you all.