Login

Register

Member List

RSS Feed

Amanda | Contact

Auguste | Contact

Jesse | Contact

Pam | Contact

Next entry: South by Southwest! Previous entry: Is Kirsten Powers mainstreaming an anti-contraception argument? Yes.

More advantages that blatant liars have

Yesterday, I wrote a lengthy post debunking an almost-shockingly deception-thick article written by Kirsten Powers, and the reason is to show that this is what it, frankly, takes.  Which is why lies get disseminated so far and are rarely checked in any way, because, as I estimated, it’s five times harder to actually check lies than to tell lies.  (Which is why even egregious hacks like Powers make money in the lying business.)  Which means it literally can’t be done, since most people in a position to check lies are busy with other work, and even as they’re busy fact-checking one lie, five more are being generated to take its place. 

But honestly, the time-effort gap may not even be the largest problem that those of us dedicated to reality-based politics face.  What may be more disturbing is the increasing willingness of the mainstream media to entertain the lies of people who have been thoroughly demonstrated, through the painstaking and time-consuming work of truth-telling, to be pernicious liars who should never be trusted ever again.  Like James O’Keefe.  For what it’s worth, I thought paying attention to the ACORN videos without a thorough fact check was unforgivable.  Maybe I could forgive some writers for it, but anyone who works in television knows for a fact that it’s easy to manipulate video, and could tell at 100 paces that these videos were not only manipulated, but not even that good at disguising their manipulations.  (Distorted audio, weird cuts that indicate that something is being concealed, an unwillingness to show O’Keefe in the videos.)  But okay, he got one pass based on the assumption of good faith.

But after it was demonstrated that O’Keefe had manipulated the ACORN videos beyond all recognition of what had actually happened?  After investigations demonstrated that people in the videos were portrayed saying one thing, but often were saying the opposite?  (Such as advice given to a woman to hide money from an abusive boyfriend/pimp was edited to suggest the advice was to hide money from the IRS.)  And then it was discovered his compatriot Andrew Breitbart was willing to promote a video the purported to show Shirley Sherrod saying one thing, when she was, you guessed it, saying the exact opposite thing.  Plus, O’Keefe’s arrests and his attempt to sexually harass and threaten, through implication, to assault a journalist, with the intention to tape the whole thing on the grounds that this would embarrass her.  (Which really goes to show how distorted his worldview is, though I suppose with heavy editing to erase the man who is striking threatening poses in a woman’s direction, you could somehow make it about her, though how I don’t know.)  After that, the only reasonable, rational thing to do is to take everything that O’Keefe produces, and put it in the trash without wasting your time.  Whatever potentially “shocking” stuff on there is definitely going to be manipulated and dishonest.

We know this.  This is not a mystery.  There is no excuse any more.

Which is why I was shocked and appalled when the latest video trying to ding NPR came out, and people took it at face value, as if we didn’t know for a fact that it was deceptively edited.  I saw people approach it with the assumption that it was mostly lies, but they figured they could somehow tease some relevant truth out of it, and judge it on that.  This is especially true if you’re unwilling to watch all two hours of footage that O’Keefe got, which 99.9% of journalists are unwilling to do.  (See: Lies, Time It Takes To Debunk Them.)  Instead, people decided that Schiller said a couple of things that were inexcusable under any circumstances, and that was good enough for them.  Never mind that the Sherrod example should teach us that context can literally mean that someone is saying “up” when, if you extracted just a fraction of their overall quote, it seems they are saying “down”. 

O’Keefe has learned that he can come in, lie his fool head off, create damage, and when the accounting is done, it’s too late to fix all the damage he’s done.  His is amply, and repeatedly rewarded for lying.  Unsurprisingly, a few days after the NPR video came out and people were fired and all that jazz, a thorough accounting of the video demonstrates that it is stuffed with lies. Which anyone at this point could have told you, sight unseen, even people that bought into it.  Lindsay did what almost no one else did, and watched all two hours of the taped con job.

If you watch the entire conversation, it becomes crystal clear that O’Keefe’s provocateurs didn’t get what they were looking for. They were ostensibly offering $5 million to NPR. Their goal is clearly to get Schiller and his colleague Betsy Liley to agree to slant coverage for cash. Again and again, they refuse, saying that NPR just wants to report the facts and be a nonpartisan voice of reason. Schiller pointedly informs the fake donors that NPR broke with some very generous Jewish benefactors who had supported NPR for over a decade because they tried to tell NPR that it “couldn’t have so much Palestinian coverage.”

“And we said, ‘sorry,’” Schiller says, “And we lost their funding, and it’s gone.”

During the ACORN days, O’Keefe actually tried to conceal the original videos, knowing that they proved he was a liar.  Now he’s realized that being a known liar doesn’t actually make any difference.  He doesn’t even perform a charade of being ashamed for being such a terrible liar.  At this point, he releases a video, everyone knows up front that he’s a liar, and everyone will just pretend that he’s not for the 12-24 hours it takes for the video to ruin someone’s life.  And he’ll basically gloat in public by releasing the full video, as if to say, “Hey, we all know I’m lying, but no one seems to give a flying fuck!”

And on that, he’s right. 

How do you fight against that?

 

------

Registration is now required! We're still in the process of getting it all squared away, so for the moment don't forget to Login or Register using the links in the upper left menu before starting to write your comment.

Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:11 AM • (82) Comments

The hype and fallout around this latest NPR video just blew me away. I was shocked that it was even news a couple days ago that the video was deceptively edited. Didn’t we all know that going in?

At this point O’Keefe could just take footage of Obama’s state of the union and dub it over in his own voice to say “I’m a Kenyan born Muslim, who hates America and loves al Qaeda.” and Obama would be impeached the next day. Some time later it would be breaking news that the obvious scam was a scam. The guy has no reason to stop now. He might as well push it as far as possible.

Comment #1: penn  on  03/15  at  10:21 AM

This is an excellent post on the topic of our culture’s increasing tolerance for lies and liars.  It bothers me that someone like O’Keefe is given attention in our public culture when, as Amanda points out, it’s taken as a given that he’s a liar and impossible to take seriously.  In a healthy society, he’d be run out of public discourse on a rail, but for some reason he’s still around taking up media oxygen because… uh… er…. TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!

Comment #2: NBarnes  on  03/15  at  10:32 AM

Why isn’t O’keefe in jail? (Rhetorical question)

Comment #3: Albert Cirrus  on  03/15  at  10:36 AM

The people most likely to accept whatever O’Keefe says are, in fact, the media. Because he’s pushing the narrative they want pushed. A similar campaign against Fox News or talk radio, even if backed up by copious evidence, would be denounced across the media spectrum.

How to fix it? Hell if I know. My preferred solution would be strapping them to the outside of a rocketship and shooting them into the sun, but that might be a tad extreme.  :/

Comment #4: Scott  on  03/15  at  10:37 AM

Scott - can we put them on the same rocket with the telephone sanitizers?

Sorry - gratuitous Hitchhiker’s Guide reference.

Comment #5: tannenburg  on  03/15  at  10:40 AM

The media has no sense of the responsibility that journalism is supposed to entail. They choose what to cover based on what will garner ratings (and, as Scott said, what pushes a particular narrative), with literally no regard for fact or truth. And yet, because they’re supposed to be discerning and reporting only the facts, they still retain this power to influence the real world and get people fired and ruin lives. I guess it’s just sheer intellectual laziness - eh, we’ll just assume the media is telling the truth because it’d just be awful if they didn’t and exposing them would be hard.

Comment #6: Triplanetary  on  03/15  at  10:47 AM

I’m frankly surprised there haven’t been more attempts to sue for libel.  I know that libel law has been whittled down over the years, but still.

Comment #7: PWI  on  03/15  at  11:05 AM

PWI: you can sue, but a) it takes time and b) you can’t collect. O’Keefe is on the wingnut welfare kick, so he has no assets of his own. And everybody else is just covering it because it’s already out there. Teaching the controversy, as it were.

Comment #8: paul  on  03/15  at  11:15 AM

The people most likely to accept whatever O’Keefe says are, in fact, the media. Because he’s pushing the narrative they want pushed. A similar campaign against Fox News or talk radio, even if backed up by copious evidence, would be denounced across the media spectrum.

Perhaps this is the point.  Someone like O’Keefe so poisons the well that if there was clear, convincing evidence that Faux News is lying (beyond the usual, I mean), it could be seen as just the left doing what O’Keefe was doing and who cares?  This is just rightwing media protecting its own by making lies seem commonplace.

You would think real journalists would, out of sheer self-interest, take the time to analyze the tapes and show they’re lies. After all, why would anyone believe their real investigative journalism if they all appear to be equal to O’Keefe’s gang?

Comment #9: NobleExperiments  on  03/15  at  11:17 AM

I studied science and engineering, so I don’t know what they teach you in journalism school.  But don’t these people learn research skills?  Investigative methods?  Ethics? 

How is it we pay people to do the exact opposite of their job description?

Comment #10: bomberE  on  03/15  at  11:18 AM

I think one way you fight against this is to have more non-profit journalism, such as NPR.  (Which is probably why O’Keefe went after NPR.)  So long as journalists feel pressure to produce ad-generating content, “truth” is going to take a back seat to “buzz.”  I’m curious about how major foreign news outlets are funded - BBC, TV5, Al Jazeera, etc - and whether these foreign news organizations are under the same profit pressures as their American counterparts, and how this affects their news coverage.

Comment #11: Miguel Bloomfontosis  on  03/15  at  11:25 AM

I think a big part of the problem is that every news station wants to be the first to report.  They know that Fox News will report all this crap without any kind of checks, so then all the other stations that might have wanted to investigate end up reporting the same crap to stay competitive.  They’re afraid that viewers will choose fast but wrong news over slightly less fast but accurate news, and they might very well be correct in that.  I really don’t know what the solution to this is.

Comment #12: bananacat  on  03/15  at  11:36 AM

I know the CBC in Canada is subsidized by government, but the amount has been shrinking over the years - people complain about it using their tax money and the current Conservative govt is only too happy to reduce the CBC’s influence.

Comment #13: lijakaca  on  03/15  at  11:49 AM

Lying works—remember the universal healthcare death panels? Merely debunking doesn’t do it, the media has to turn the debunking of a particular story INTO THE STORY ITSELF in order for people to see reason, and its not just the hardwork to consider, its how to spin it.

Speaking of the death panels, here’s a link from Jezebel about increasing a drug that is used late in pregnancy to stave off pre-term labor, which used to cost $10-$20 per dose, now to $1500 per dose…or $30,000 per pregnancy. This will actually cause deaths. The for-profit driven industry IS THE DEATH PANELS, but up is down when the truth doesn’t matter and when corporate/ideological interests trump reality everytime.

Links: http://jezebel.com/#!5782009/price-of-pregnancy-drug-jumps-from-10-to-1500

Comment #14: Thealogian  on  03/15  at  11:53 AM

First of all, the best response is to not fire anyone.  I can’t believe NPR fired two people when they knew that they were being targeted by these liars.  NPR should have said that it’s not a gaffe when it’s true.  And NPR should have stood its ground.  I am so disappointed in NPR for being so wimpy.

Comment #15: phinky  on  03/15  at  12:06 PM

“The media has no sense of the responsibility that journalism is supposed to entail. They choose what to cover based on what will garner ratings (and, as Scott said, what pushes a particular narrative), with literally no regard for fact or truth.”

Without fully appreciating the critical truth of this statement, one cannot possibly understand what is going on with the media and a dick like O’Keefe. 

News: 
Seems to be about something, but in reality, that something is ratings (when it’s not corporate propaganda). 
And ratings = money.

It’s just that simple.

“And yet, because they’re supposed to be discerning and reporting only the facts, they still retain this power to influence the real world and get people fired and ruin lives.”

The idea that they are “discerning and reporting only the facts” is one of the most important propaganda successes of the last century.  News people are given the benefit of the doubt, by default, in too many situations. 

“I guess it’s just sheer intellectual laziness - eh, we’ll just assume the media is telling the truth because it’d just be awful if they didn’t and exposing them would be hard.”

100% correct.  Until we are willing to hold them accountable for propagating lies, we will continue to reap the consequences of our collective stupidity…

Comment #16: MikeEss  on  03/15  at  12:08 PM

I think the only way to fight it is to make giving any time/credit to O’Keefe’s escapades and those like him hurt the media financially. I don’t know how we do that, though.

Comment #17: Olivia  on  03/15  at  12:16 PM

I’d care if NPR didn’t obviously want this to cause problems.

NPR hasn’t been worth saving for a while now, which it displayed in spades on this issue.  So, sure, whatever.  Let the bad men hurt you, if that’s your fetish.

Comment #18: Punditus Maximus  on  03/15  at  12:17 PM

The problem was stated best by an eminent evolutionary biologist who said (of creationists): they can shit faster than we can shovel.

Comment #19: MissPrism  on  03/15  at  12:17 PM

@phinky

Wait, Wait Don’t Tell Me had the best quote on that (paraphrased from memory): NPR fired Schiller in an effort to placate the conservative base, which is a lot like throwing another virgin into the volcano to keep it from erupting.”

Comment #20: acallidryas  on  03/15  at  12:24 PM

At this point I’m all out of shocked and appalled. Everyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows these conservative “stings” are either deceptive or fake, just as everyone knows the media will report them uncritically. Of all the conservative controversies I remember in the last few decades, all of them were based on a lie.

I think Shirley Sherrod has the right idea: Sue these pigfuckers. Most of the people they go after aren’t public figures, so it’s easier to win a defamation suit. The media dare not cover the actual lawsuits because it will show just how useless they’ve become as fact checkers.

If they got sued every single time they pulled something like this, they’d probably stop. If not, at least we’d have the “Brietbart put out a video? Isn’t he like…being sued for defamation by thirty different people because he lied on all those other videos?” argument to bolster the facts.

Comment #21: JThompson  on  03/15  at  12:31 PM

Maybe we should just start yelling “YOU LIE!” at them all the time.

Comment #22: Mark  on  03/15  at  12:36 PM

I’ve a hard time having much sympathy for NPR.  They’ve been nicknamed Nice Polite Republicans for years now & its a title they earned by giving odious creeps a platform.  They were doing it under the assumption that if they just played nice with the wingnuts & gave them equal time, they’d be left alone.  Despite all evidence to to contrary that they were dealing with creeps who’d pull the wings off a hummingbird just for the fun of it.

No, no one should’ve lost their job over this, but to expand on what phinky said, NPR has been very wimpy for a very long time.  It made them a target.

What really makes me furious, the part that makes me genuinely see red and makes me want to KILL is that these shitbirds make more money lying & lying about their lying in a year than most people I know make an honest living.

Crime DOES pay.

Comment #23: Smartpatrol  on  03/15  at  12:38 PM

” than most people I know make in an honest living.”

Duh.

Comment #24: Smartpatrol  on  03/15  at  12:42 PM

We have our own wingnut welfare recipients in Quebec, but they’re not as well paid, they’re not as strident (they mostly spout about reducing the state, not much about social conservative causes) , and most of their budget comes from American benefactors (the Koch again, and more).

Comment #25: BlackBloc  on  03/15  at  12:45 PM

Duh x2.  For got to all that Driftglass & Blue Gal have an excellent take on the scum that we’re saddled with.

Comment #26: Smartpatrol  on  03/15  at  12:48 PM

Perhaps this is the point.  Someone like O’Keefe so poisons the well that if there was clear, convincing evidence that Faux News is lying (beyond the usual, I mean), it could be seen as just the left doing what O’Keefe was doing and who cares?

Well, first off - the left cares.  There are myriad “FOX Lies” websites that all get excellent traffic and big left-wing support.  And the prank “Koch” call to Gov Walker got widespread coverage in the blogosphere, for instance.  Hell, half of TDS revolves around calling out FOX on bullshit and that show is wildly popular.  There is definitely an audience for reverse-O’Keefe busting.

Second off - the right wing anti-media campaign dates back to the Nixon Administration.  Conservatives have been trying to dominate, bankrupt, or otherwise ruin every media outfit and personality that opposes their agenda for the last 50 years.  So when FOX gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar, if you’re wondering why no one seems to care, its because they’ve been working the system for generations and are more than prepared to suppress bad self-coverage.

Ultimately, I think the existing media system has to come down in its entirety.  They’re too infected and too compromised.  Just get people to turn to alternative media sources.  The morning and evening news programs are swamped with sensationalism and celebrity coverage.  Right wing politicos either own or have a heavy hand in virtually every major network newsroom.  Papers have been bought up by special interests (WSJ, WaPo, NYPost) or have sold themselves out for “access” (NYTimes) that really just boils down to propaganda.  And more of the “breaking” news is coming out of independent sources - like Wikileaks - or from foreign outfits - like the BBC or Al-Jazera - than from the domestic newsrooms.

Vote with your eyeballs and get your friends and neighbors to do the same.  That’s the only way to kill O’Keefe.  He’s a symptom of a much, much larger problem.

Comment #27: Zifnab25  on  03/15  at  12:49 PM

I had a conversation at a get-together recently with a conservative friend of a co-worker who works for a major health insurance company.  She spouted off a litany of facts and figures about how expensive health care is and how the insurers are simply backed into the corner because obviously hospitals can’t run at a loss.  To be honest I can’t even remember everything she said because it was just a wall of words and nonsense figures meant to dissuade anyone from remotely tackling her reasoning. 

Because I’m one of those people who doesn’t realize the perfect thing to say until after the conversation is over, it didn’t occur to me until later that at the heart of her argument was the assumption that health care needs to be a for profit enterprise.  And I could easily come up with plenty of examples of why that ends up harming patient care in the long run, from kids being denied treatment because they’ve surpassed the arbitrary cap on their care to that jackass doctor who saw millions of dollars in “proving” that Autism and vaccines were connected.  And that one of the reasons health care is so expensive is because the costs are artificially inflated, much like the housing market was.

At any rate, just want to agree with the other posters here who say that for-profit media is at the heart of this problem.  Money has become more important than journalistic integrity.

Comment #28: Blitzgal  on  03/15  at  01:02 PM

Fighting lies is hard work, and the people who tell lies craft them so that they’re jazzy, simple, easy to remember and use, and much much more alluring than the truth.  Lies are also frightening because there’s very few of them that can’t easily be blown away—-so, then, why do so many people prefer them? They preserve familiar old formats and roles,  and those can be alluring to the most adventurous of hipsters, much less Fox News watchers.  Look at sexism, which is basically a collection of lies. Lies are always going to be used against people who threaten the status quo.  Always.

And you have to keep in mind that people don’t want to listen to the truth.  They want pretty, neat, nice little lies, all tied up in bows, where the villains are bad and the good guys are…probably guys, basically, but that’s another subject. They want to believe those lies, because the lies give them what they want. I mean, basically 0’Sleaze justifies the whole ‘both sides are just as bad’ crap,  which eliminates all need for thinkin and realizing that sometimes, yes, one side really IS bad and the other side really IS good. And some liars lie to other people, but the ones youwant to watch out for are lying to themselves, and those can be actually dangerous.

Comment #29: ginmar  on  03/15  at  01:11 PM

Sorry to dole out trollfeed, but I’m impressed to see that EMR is actually okeefing right there in his own comment! See, he’s put inverted commas around “kill shitbirds” as if those two words actually appeared adjacent to one another in someone else’s response, but they didn’t.

Comment #30: MissPrism  on  03/15  at  01:13 PM

Ugh, thank you for this.  After hearing that even some dude from Glenn Beck’s website, The Blaze, agrees that this is all crap, I had a major *headdesk* with the fact that actual people got fired over this before the facts even came out.

So the guy who got Scott Walker on the phone in the fake-Koch call where he looked like an absolute puppet for his corporate masters and basically a huge tool—is he stepping down over this exposure?  Hellz no; he’s riding the tool train all the way to asshole station.  Apparently any random douchebag with a fuzzy pimp hat, a flip video and an utter disregard for the truth can take on national organizations, provided of course that he’s coming from the right.

Comment #31: chareth cutestory  on  03/15  at  01:17 PM

“The mental gymnastics it must take to think O’Keefe is the one that looks bad in this NPR thingy are astonishing.”

...demonstrating once again the awesome Reichwing ability to discern truth from lies, competence from incompetence, good judgement from bad judgement, morality from immorality — the same awesome ability to discern that lead directly to Bush Jr. and Sarah Palin. 

BTW, how can you tell if a wingnutty teabagging moron is lying:  They’re breathing…

“And at least with that, I find the ability some of you have to delude yourselves to be quite impressive. Most normal people can’t do it that well.”

Projection:  Not just for movie theaters…

***

Dude, now that you’ve come over here and plotzed right into the punchbowl, why don’t you tell the nice nurse you’re done using the computer and ask to be taken back to your room.  And don’t forget to take your medication!  And swallow it this time!

(...how you manage to type while wearing a straight-jacket is a mystery for another day…)

Comment #32: MikeEss  on  03/15  at  01:21 PM

Concern troll is concerned.

Comment #33: cynickal  on  03/15  at  01:35 PM

I always say I don’t like the Right, I don’t trust the Right, but I respect the Right, because they know how to play to win. O’Keefe (and his boss Breitbart) is a lying, scum-sucking, bottom-feeding piece of walking offal - and he always WINS. I can’t really fault him. NPR is the one that pathetically wussed out, just like the White House did with Sherrod, just like Congressional Dems did over ACORN.

MissPrism alluded to creationism upthread, and that’s just what I thought of when reading this post. Creationists can run in and spout a dozen bits of made-up pseudo-science before a real scientist can begin to debunk the first bit.

But, as important as science is, the creationist battle is nowhere near as important in the short term is the obscene dereliction of duty that is committed daily by our press.

How CAN we fight against that?

I say we need to start playing as dirty as they do. Yeah, we lose the moral high ground, but you can’t fix things that are broken by simply being the better person. We need an organized campaign to ratfuck the ratfuckers.

Comment #34: Brian Schlosser  on  03/15  at  01:41 PM

@EMR:

I’d say this O’Keefe fella is doin’ a mighty fine job of kicking the everlovin’ shit out of you guys.

Which is why you’re an idiot.
O’Keefe is being presented as an undercover reporter, when he’s just a highly publicized smear merchant.  Doctoring videos to fuel right-wing conspiracy theories and scare lawmakers might be “winning” in the conventional Republican sense.  But the only thing you’ve accomplished is further beggaring local communities of political capital (take that Association of Community Organizations!), undermining the health and well-being of millions of women (haha!  Stupid Planned Parenthood!) and forced a sympathetic Republican-leaning NPR fundraiser into slightly more earlier than planned retirement.

If that’s “winning!” then Charlie Sheen should come to you for tips.

You’re actively cannibalizing your base.  Women are going to hate the Republicans.  Urban residents are going to hate Republicans.  And anyone who regularly listens to NPR (that’s 20 million people as of ‘03 according to Washington Monthly) is going to hate Republicans.

But you’ll have successfully played to the “Let’s piss of the liberals!” base.  So hard right conservatives will continue to vote for hard-right conservative candidates.  Congratulations.  That’s the ticket to capturing the independent vote.  Just ask the good folks currently mobbing the state houses in Ohio, Wisconsin, and Indiana.  Winning!

Comment #35: Zifnab25  on  03/15  at  01:42 PM

Journalists are in the business of publishing the lies of their sources.  Their attitude towards O’Keefe isn’t that much different than their attitude towards the government, businesses, or individual politicians.  They don’t have the time or the resources to determine what the truth is, so they get statements from both sides and let their readers sort things out.  This gives an enormous advantage to the most spectacular, most shameful liars.

It’s been true since at least the 1980’s, when we first learned of welfare queens driving Cadillacs and the magic of the Laffer Curve and supply side economics.  It was true during the 90s, when the right went after Clinton tossing lies at him until they managed to catch him in one lie of his own and crucified him with it.  The Bush Administration was one lie after another.

The only (marginal) mystery is that after three decades of pushing big lies, the right still has any claim to moral authority.  On alternate days, I think that it’s because the leadership of the left is too afraid to call the right they are, for fear of losing the liar vote, because they’re lying scum themselves and don’t really want journalism and public discourse to improve, or because all moral authority in this country derives from slut shaming and the right will always be better at that.

Comment #36: Bob  on  03/15  at  01:43 PM

O’Keefe (and his boss Breitbart) is a lying, scum-sucking, bottom-feeding piece of walking offal - and he always WINS. I can’t really fault him. NPR is the one that pathetically wussed out, just like the White House did with Sherrod, just like Congressional Dems did over ACORN.

This is basically the problem.  If Democrats bothered to stand firm, or at least didn’t instantly dive over the cliff like a pack of lemmings, in the face of another of these “explosive videos!” O’Keefe wouldn’t have the same kind of muscle.

This isn’t O’Keefe winning so much as Dems ceding the fight before they even start.
You didn’t see Wisconsin protesters packing it up and going home because FOX News game them less than flattering media coverage.  And now a third of the state senate is headed for recall.

Comment #37: Zifnab25  on  03/15  at  01:46 PM

Another example of how easy it is to just lie and be full of shit was on display on Friday’s Real Time With Bill Maher—they had Dana Lash back on, and she would just whine “NO, that’s not true” whenever one of those pesky realty-based facts threatened to penetrate her conservative bubble. She even got to pull out the I’m not a Republican line as if that somehow made her BS more accurate.

Comment #38: Mighty Ponygirl  on  03/15  at  01:51 PM

I’m so glad you posted about this because I need to VENT: I heard the most obnoxious NPR story last night about all of this. They were talking about this issue of deceptive video and how everyone just runs with the story without fact checking because they want to be first and drive up clicks, blah blah blah. I think they even interviewed someone from Politico expressing regret that he got taken.

And all I could think was, are you fucking kidding me?! Isn’t this the THIRD TIME we’re dealing with this same old story? I’m convinced the only reason they aired a story with such a heavy focus on journalists who rush to judgment is because this time it bit THEM in the ass, just like Dana Milibank’s all of a sudden concerned about mortgage fraud.

I was seriously just dumbstruck. Do these people have no self-awareness at all?! Un-fucking-believable.

Thank you, I really needed to get that off my chest.

Comment #39: antiope  on  03/15  at  01:57 PM

MissPrism, LOL at “okeefing”. I think you just invented the perfect word for this kind of shit.

Comment #40: Olivia  on  03/15  at  01:58 PM

@41 “Man, what is that stench? Someone must have okeefed in here!”

Comment #41: Brian Schlosser  on  03/15  at  02:01 PM

Agreed. O’Keefe is a major Skeeve. I’m actually writing my term paper on him for my media and ethics class. I dont know why anybody listens to him and its always sickening when people have to step down when any video released was severely edited. I mean all they had to do was watch two hours of film to see what really happened and not end up defacing someone, isnt it worth that to the people on the chopping block?Just sick.

Comment #42: Bean Slap  on  03/15  at  02:26 PM

the key word in your post appears in para. 2, line 5: “entertain”, but not in your context. today’s media is a 24/7, requiring massive amounts of filler, to “entertain” the rubes, and keep them tuned in. no more the news programming of my youth (Huntley & Brinkley Report, for example) which was, well, news, not entertainment. heck, even the weather report was serious, and only a bare mention of sports news was to be had, it wasn’t considered actual “news”.

with the mad scramble for viewership, the constant need to “refresh” and the race to be first with a “scoop”, the veracity of a report matters far less (if at all), because after a brief flurry of excitement, they’re off to the “next big thing”. or paris hilton’s new purse, whatever. it’s simply entertainment, pap for masses, as lenin would say.

Comment #43: cpinva  on  03/15  at  02:44 PM

But don’t these people learn research skills?  Investigative methods?  Ethics?

IME, no, no, and kind of.  Although I think ‘learning by doing’ needs to be used more often, I found my J-school experience to be woefully inadequate when it came to preparing me for the doing aspect of it—I felt more like I was being thrown to the wolves.  For me, that’s a horrible way to learn (though far from the only reason I left).  Looking back, we weren’t even required to take a freaking statistics class.  I found the whole experience to be rather unstructured and unhelpful.

Comment #44: Jayn Newell  on  03/15  at  02:56 PM

cpinva, I disagree that filler is needed for a 24/7 news channel. There are a lot of things that could be reported on accurately instead of just repeating the same, often inaccurate shit over and over. Example, CNN going on and on about the nuclear crisis in Japan. It’s news, yes, important news. But instead of bringing on people to speculate about what might happen and how it maybe could happen in the U.S., how about they talk about the other issue going on in Japan and the rest of the world.

Comment #45: Olivia  on  03/15  at  02:57 PM

But there IS plenty of real news to be had.  Just want to point that out.  People with TVs are getting Charlie Sheen b/c of ratings, but as far actual news, there’s more than enough going on to broadcast it 24/7.

Comment #46: bomberE  on  03/15  at  03:00 PM

Site is slow; Olivia beat me to the point.  Jayn, that’s unfortunate about your school experience.  But it does help to explain why citizen bloggers not trained as journalists are outperforming the professionals in fact-finding and analysis.  There’s other reasons, of course, but I guess I’m just surprised they don’t teach you what you’re going to be doing.

Comment #47: bomberE  on  03/15  at  03:09 PM

The last thing a journalism major who wants a job needs is knowledge on fact-finding, ethics, or stats.  The job of a journalist is to faithfully record and repeat what is said to him or her.  You can see this in the lists of who gets promoted and who gets relegated.

Comment #48: Punditus Maximus  on  03/15  at  03:41 PM

@11:  BBC and CCTV are funded by their respective governments, UK (the first B is British, after all) and China.  I find you can get some decent news from CCTV because you know what their bias is most of the time, and if they are covering something China’s government is not involved in, they are actually fairly news-ish.  Their coverage of the earthquake in Haiti was pretty good, often much of their middle east coverage, etc.

Comment #49: helen w. h.  on  03/15  at  03:47 PM

You’re actively cannibalizing your base.  Women are going to hate the Republicans.  Urban residents are going to hate Republicans.  And anyone who regularly listens to NPR (that’s 20 million people as of ‘03 according to Washington Monthly) is going to hate Republicans.

That isn’t a problem at all for them, since they’re very successfully dismantling democracy itself state by state (HELLO OHIO) and every election they do their absolute best to prevent anyone who tends to vote for Democrats from voting.

They don’t need to capture the popular vote, they just need to make it so that voting doesn’t matter.  Bad enough that whoever you vote for in like 90% of the country is just going to vote like a Republican anyway, but they’re doing their best to make it so much worse.

Comment #50: Toitle  on  03/15  at  04:14 PM

It’s stuff like this that makes me give money to outfits like Firedoglake, who do actual reporting. Our mainstream media is badly compromised; I never expected total honesty, but they’ve sunk to near-uselessness for anything but weather reports and disasters. And not always those.

I have not sat through an entire mainstream news show, of any network, in years, mostly because my blood pressure can’t take it, but also because they cover a 1,000th of the stuff I see reported online, and even that bit they usually get wrong.

Comment #51: emjaybee  on  03/15  at  04:47 PM

“I’d say this O’Keefe fella is doin’ a mighty fine job of kicking the everlovin’ shit out of you guys.”
Who let The Situation into the room?

“Also smartpatrol…remember the new tone…..‘civility’.”
What’s this?  You’re calling me “uncivil”?  I don’t sound “civil” to you?  Hey, FUCK YOU and your “civility”.  HERE, TAKE SOME FUCKIN’ “CIVILITY” DOWN YER FUCKIN’ THROAT!
</pesci>

Comment #52: Smartpatrol  on  03/15  at  04:56 PM

Because I’m one of those people who doesn’t realize the perfect thing to say until after the conversation is over, it didn’t occur to me until later that at the heart of her argument was the assumption that health care needs to be a for profit enterprise.

Exactly.  That assumption is at the core of almost any policy disagreement between liberals and conservatives. 

At any rate, just want to agree with the other posters here who say that for-profit media is at the heart of this problem.  Money has become more important than journalistic integrity.

Money has become more important than anything, period.

Comment #53: liberalrob  on  03/15  at  05:10 PM

Back in the day (you young whippersnappers), the news division of a network or newspaper always lost money; the entertainment divisions existed to bring in revenue to fund the news division. The networks/newspapers were proud of their investigative journalism and willing to put money into the news - prestige, awards, and all that drive up viewership/readership.

No more.  Now it’s all “entertainment” and “one side says x, the other says y, you decide.”  The news has to bring in revenue, just like every other division.  Who do they keep?  The attractive talking heads or the perhaps-not-as-telegenic investigate reporter?  And here I thought “Network” and “Broadcast News” were fiction.  I don’t remember hearing a newscast begin with “Winner of x Edgar R. Murrow Awards for Excellence” in a long, long time.  They don’t care any more.

I seldom pine for the good ol’ days (they usually weren’t so good), but this is the exception.

Comment #54: NobleExperiments  on  03/15  at  05:16 PM

And here I thought “Network” and “Broadcast News” were fiction.

The Gospel according to Arthur Jensen has quite the following, doesn’t it?

Comment #55: liberalrob  on  03/15  at  06:26 PM

@41 “Man, what is that stench? Someone must have okeefed in here!”

“The one who <strike>smelt it</strike> is dressed like an unconvincing pimp dealt it!”

Comment #56: Bagelsan  on  03/15  at  06:47 PM

@ Zifnab/27:

Hell, half of TDS revolves around calling out FOX on bullshit and that show is wildly popular

And The Daily Show… still played the NPR video and laughed about it.

Comment #57: FlipYrWhig  on  03/15  at  06:49 PM

Time to break out Ralston Saul’s “The Doubter’s Companion”.  As I recall, he has some very pertinent things to say about cultures that prefer to run on lies.

It worked SO well for the USSR…

(And, lest this be an exclusive USA-bash, let’s hurriedlyskip over NZ’s self-imposed blindness about external debt…)

Comment #58: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/15  at  06:53 PM

BTW, how can you tell if a wingnutty teabagging moron is lying:  They’re breathing…

Gosh, if only we could stop wingnutty teabagging morons from lying…

Comment #59: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/15  at  07:01 PM

“And The Daily Show… still played the NPR video and laughed about it.”

We need to remember that ultimately the point of TDS is ratings and money.  Currently they get their ratings by frequently pointing out rightwing nuttery and the sycophancy of the big media. 

They’re on Comedy Central, which is one of the cable channels owned by MTV Networks, which is in turn owned by Viacom, which according to Wikipedia: “As of 2010, it is the world’s fourth-largest media conglomerate, behind The Walt Disney Company, Time Warner and News Corporation.”

TDS only lives by the forbearance of their corporate overlords.  As soon as Viacom decides they can get more revenue from some other show in that slot, or decides that Jon Stewart needs a tighter leash, then it’s all over.  And I would bet that this reality is crystal clear to those who produce The Daily Show…

Comment #60: MikeEss  on  03/15  at  07:07 PM

MikeEss is dead on. Further, TDS, for all its relevance in the political discourse, is still fundamentally a comedy show and it doesn’t claim to be objective hard news, unlike some networks we can think of with slogans that rhyme with “schmair and schmalanced”.

Comment #61: chareth cutestory  on  03/15  at  07:26 PM

When I take over, one of the first things that I’m going to do—after having David Brooks hauled up against a wall and shot—will be to institute a rule whereby anyone who purports to be a journalist and who tells a lie in the media will have LIAR tattooed on their forehead in 144-point Helvetica Bold. Anyone who repeats a lie without fact-checking it gets STUPID. Anyone who takes money from anyone and masquerades as an independent journalist gets WHORE. No bangs, either.

Comment #62: felagund  on  03/15  at  07:31 PM

Hell, half of TDS revolves around calling out FOX on bullshit and that show is wildly popular
And The Daily Show… still played the NPR video and laughed about it.

I’m a big TDS fan, but I have the same problems with its excessively “fair and evenhanded” approach that other liberals have. When I watched their coverage of this and saw Jon Stewart looking aghast at the apparently very damning spectacle of someone calling the Tea Party racist I just shouted “What did he say just now that wasn’t true?”

Comment #63: typist  on  03/15  at  07:42 PM

<doesn’t have Helvetica (stupid Corel WP 12), so settles for PosterBodoni>

Comment #64: GSDavis  on  03/15  at  07:43 PM

What amazes me isn’t the lying, it’s that the lying is so comically obvious.  A person would have to be a colossal idiot to believe that Planned Parenthood helps “Dr. Detroit”-style pimps with human trafficking, that a journalist filming an expose of O’Keefe actually wants to bang him in a floating sex dungeon, or that NPR…

Okay, I confess I have no idea what shocking thing the NPR video is supposed to “expose.”  Even with heavy, deceptive editing, the best they could do was claim (falsely) that a guy at NPR thinks the Tea Party is racist.  Man, scoop of the century there.  I hope next O’Keefe reveals the monocle-popping truth that Fox News employs somebody who hates liberals.

Of course, the raw tape makes it clear that they didn’t get the footage they were really angling for: anything suggesting that NPR is willing to slant news in exchange for donations.  The NPR people they talked to absolutely would not play along.  They also tried to set up something about NPR promoting Sharia law, but that footage was so transparently fake that not even mainstream news outlets would report it.

Anyway, these “stings” are on the level of that episode of “The Simpsons” where the sleazy news show makes Homer say, “sweet, sweet can,” and yet they keep getting reported like this is a real thing.  It’s weird.

Comment #65: Shaenon  on  03/15  at  08:24 PM

Gosh, if only we could stop wingnutty teabagging morons from lying…

This just in: Michelle Obama recommends that kids breathe at least half an hour each day. smile

(I know, it’s been done to death, but I still ascribe to the school of belief that you can’t go broke overestimating the pure fucking obstinate stupidity of the wingnuts. They’re like the actual Platonic ideal of petty dickbaggery — sure, liberals like Stewart and TDS flirt with the occasional petty dickbaggery but they can only approach, and never reach, the perfected asymptotic art form to which the ‘Baggers have brought it.)

Comment #66: Bagelsan  on  03/15  at  08:33 PM

Shaenon: making the lies obvious is part of the schtick. Anyone who has any respect for the truth is stopped for several seconds, jaw dropping, trying to imagine that anyone would believe such crap for even a moment. And in that time. five generations of teabag email forwards have already sent the lies to the furthest corner of the intertubes.

But I think there’s something more important that felagund and the Washington Monthly touch on (can i call them the WaMoBlo, or would that be wrong?), namely that the detailed refutations really don’t mean anything unless we can engage in some serious pavlovian conditioning to prevent the usual suspects from just doing the same faux-naive reporting time after time.  At this point, any nominally mainstream reporter who mentions O’Keefe in any context other than criminal trespass and serial hoaxing should be met by as many thousand calls to editor and publisher as possible asking why such an obvious incompetent is still in the newsroom.

Comment #67: paul  on  03/15  at  08:56 PM

well it´s a matter of respect, and opinions, that´s the problem of freedom xD

Comment #68: web designer  on  03/15  at  09:08 PM

@58 FlipYrWhig:

And The Daily Show… still played the NPR video and laughed about it.

They definitely laughed about how silly the whole bust was.  And they laughed at the executive for falling for another round of O’Keefe sting operations.  And they laughed at the delightful coastal liberal stereotype the exec fell into when he went on about wine.

But they still called the whole “sting” operation bullshit.  And they called NPR a bunch of pussies for letting the exec go.  Given that this was a comedy sketch, not actual news, I think Stewart addressed it brilliantly.  Given NPR’s history of softballing O’Keefe and Brietbart, I’m not sure why Stewart needs to be held to a higher standard.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201103150021

Comment #69: Zifnab25  on  03/15  at  09:10 PM

Fred Clark of Slacktivist has done some great posts in the past on the Big Lie approach to spreading misinformation, and how the weirdest, most obviously false stuff can catch on with the right audience.

What I’ve gleaned is that the lie is likely to catch on if it supports the mark’s existing worldview, suggests danger lurking everywhere, but also presents a vision of the world that’s more exciting and colorful than reality.  I guess that’s how the O’Keefe stuff catches on: it definitely presents a wackier, more fun set of dangers than the actual problems most of us face.  With the initial ACORN hoax, especially, the GOP had already spread the idea that ACORN was engaging in electoral fraud and was sinister in other, vaguer ways (possibly related to all those black people they kept helping).  But nobody had anything specific or juicy, and then Veritas came along with this video that was obviously doctored but offered the satisfying “proof” people wanted.  And what’s more fun to believe: that ACORN processed a few fraudulent ballots that were discarded anyway, or that ACORN was swarming with awesome Huggybear pimps and their strangely sorority-girl-looking hos?

Comment #70: Shaenon  on  03/15  at  09:59 PM

Screw it. There’s tons of dirt we can dig up on the GOP that’s actually true and can be made into commercials with menacing music and creepy voiceovers. For example, Peter King (R-NY), supported the IRA back when they thought department stores were legitimate paramilitary targets. WHY DOES PETER KING HATE MALLS?

Comment #71: Maureen  on  03/15  at  10:08 PM

How do you fight against that? You can’t, given the legal ruling in Florida that Fox News had the “right” to lie it’s head off and had no obligation to the truth whatsoever. Lying and corruption is endemic in our culture, making “truth” irrelevant.

Comment #72: Jim Palmer  on  03/15  at  11:14 PM

Why do you have a troll calling the ever-present less than 20% ‘half’ of America?

Comment #73: Crissa  on  03/16  at  12:49 AM

Remember that Stewart was taken in by the ACORN video too.  Has he ever recanted on that?

Comment #74: Josh  on  03/16  at  02:55 AM

And he’ll basically gloat in public by releasing the full video, as if to say, “Hey, we all know I’m lying, but no one seems to give a flying fuck!”

And on that, he’s right.

How do you fight against that?

Seems to me the solution starts with SHAMING the suckers.

If your biggest problem, as an honest person, is a media & political system that actually wants to be fooled, wants to be led, wants to be exposed, then you have to somehow instill a sense of shame into the media. Apparently John Stewart did a little of this with the NPR video; that’s good. (It doesn’t make up for his own credulous take on the ACORN video.)

But it seems to me that the root problem here is a lack of shame on the part of the “victims”. Maybe what it will take is a bunch of people constantly asking NPR, doesn’t it make you feel like a sucker, what this guy did to you? Why don’t you feel like a complete chickenshit for acceeding to his demands? And if not, why not? (Someone can find better words than mine.)

I just think the root problem here is lack of appropriate shame.

Comment #75: atheist  on  03/16  at  07:11 AM

When my local NPR station hosted the NPR Ombudsman for a call-in, I confronted her over NPR’s insistence on not using the word “torture” to describe US actions in the Middle East. Her response was that not everyone agrees that waterboarding and other known practices actually constitute torture.

Hell, not everybody agrees that the Earth orbits the Sun, but NPR knows it’s a fact and says so.

Given that background, the latest okeefing was inevitable, as was NPR’s pathetic reaction. If there’s a chance of offending anyone, they won’t even say, “This here thing is true. That other thing is false.” Well, that’s what happens when you refuse to distinguish reality from lies.

Comment #76: catfood  on  03/16  at  07:49 AM

@Comment #77: catfood on 03/16 at 05:49 AM

When my local NPR station hosted the NPR Ombudsman for a call-in, I confronted her over NPR’s insistence on not using the word “torture” to describe US actions in the Middle East.

catfood, may I just say thank you for doing that? I know it feels hopeless, sometimes, to state the truth when lies are running the show, and when people seem to lack courage. But thank you, really. You never know where these small actions have an effect.

Even if nobody listens to you and you and it has no effect, you at least change yourself when you take action. You get a better idea of what needs to be said, what the lies are. You make your own mind into at least one area that’s free from the bullshit. So thank you.

Comment #77: atheist  on  03/16  at  10:15 AM

I apologize if this has been covered already - I haven’t read through all of the comments yet - but has NPR reinstated Schiller? I’m not an attorney and certainly not an expert on libel law, but I think Schiller can go after O’Keefe since there was both a monetary loss (job) and loss of reputation. Maybe someone more familiar with the law can comment more on this. Of course this could just be wishful thinking on my part; I can’t stand the idea of this pygmy-souled idiot getting away with ruining people’s reputations with all his lies. The fact that O’Keefe’s stories can gain traction in the media at all is just so frustrating.

Comment #78: Shenonymous  on  03/16  at  12:04 PM

atheist (and everyone else who can’t seem to keep it straight),
Would it help you to remember Jon if you think about it as short for Jonathan?  Like in the old testement?  As in Jewish? 

John Stewart was an North American folk artist who died in 2008.  He wrote a couple of my favorite songs. 
Jon Stewart is a current comedien who makes a shit ton of money with a fake news show, which is really funny about half the time, amusing maybe another quarter of the time, and falls flat at least a quarter of the time.  That isn’t all that bad for a comedy show, actually.

Comment #79: helen w. h.  on  03/16  at  03:35 PM

He was already retiring, so there’s only a few months’ wages to quibble over.  He could, but NPR is too weak to help and he’d have to make them a party to it.

Comment #80: Crissa  on  03/17  at  01:04 AM

John Stewart/Jon Stewart

OK, sorry

Comment #81: atheist  on  03/17  at  07:17 AM

John Stewart was also a Green Lantern, one of the first mainstream African American superheroes in the 1970’s.

Comment #82: typist  on  03/17  at  10:50 PM
Page 1 of 1 pages
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.