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Next entry: I Look Forward To Months Of This Previous entry: Your government, ladies and gentlemen

Neither A Mathemetician Nor A Doctor Be

Here’s Mickey “Goatse” Kaus on rising healthcare costs:

Ezra Klein warns that if nothing is done to control the cost of health care, in 20 years we’ll be spending 26.7% of our GDP on it. Is that all? I was thinking the figure would be much higher. ... P.S.: I suppose it depends on what we get for 26.7% of GDP. But if expensive medical advances added a year or two to my life, I’d be happy to fork over a quarter of my income. Wouldn’t you? ... P.P.S.: The Obamist Party Line on universal health care—that we have to scare everyone into thinking we need it to control costs—has always seemed ill-advised, given that we’ve never been able to control health care costs before. And it plays into conservative arguments that liberals really want to meddle in medical decisions and ultimately deny treatment. Now it turns out the O.P.L. health cost scare stats aren’t really even that scary. ... Why don’t Democrats instead push to provide everyone with health care using the argument that ... everyone needs health care? ... Just a thought. ...

Just so we’re clear, a single area of economic expenditure constituting 27% of our economy in 20 years is a-okay, three huge areas of government spending constituting less than 25% of our economy in 70 years is a massive crisis that must be checked, preferably with the system in question being destroyed and rebuilt, like an ancient Greek city or a collection of My Little Ponies once Starshine’s ass-sticker wears off.

I don’t know about you, but a private healthcare system soaking up more than a quarter of our money is a wee bit of a problem.  Most rational people believe that a more stable universal system will control and reduce costs, particularly given the inflationary upfront costs to healthcare consumers under the current system (pay more money for a higher deductible and less coverage…have fun at the doctor!).  On the current path, healthcare becomes the driving and dominant focus of private markets - America will become a country whose major focus is treating itself for illnesses, because we won’t have the resources to do anything else.

Kaus does raise a good point, though - since past efforts to control costs have seemingly failed, it must mean that all future attempts to control costs will summarily fail, because that’s how things work.  If Mickey Kaus was alive in 1928, he would have been pooh-poohing a cure to polio, because the real story is that this Franklin Roosevelt character might be a cripple

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 08:13 AM • (14) Comments

I’m not understanding your reference to penicillin/polio; polio’s a virus, isn’t it? What stopped the epidemic was development of a vaccine, not application of an antibiotic [med geek here].

Comment #1: brettvk  on  05/26  at  09:28 AM

“I suppose it depends on what we get for 26.7% of GDP. But if expensive medical advances added a year or two to my life, I’d be happy to fork over a quarter of my income. Wouldn’t you?”

FAIL.  The question isn’t whether you’d spend over 1/4 of your own money to add a bit of time to the end of your life.  The question is whether you’d happily spend that each and every year to add a bit of time to the end of somebody else’s life, as well as as your own (as well as improving the quality of the middle of everyone’s life), or would you rather spend significantly less to accomplish the same thing by cutting out the insurance cos.

Considering how much we pay and how little we get, it would seem the answer is obvious.  But when dealing with the Koolaid-impaired, obvious answers are seldom obvious…

Comment #2: MikeEss  on  05/26  at  09:35 AM

Ooooh, but they’ll ration care!!!!  You won’t get to see the doctor you choose or use the medicines s/he prescribes!!!!!  osdfsdioo!!!

Oh, wait, that’s what we have now with an insurance-paid scam that makes more money by denying care to patients. 

We have to take profit out of healthcare.  If medicine is rationed, let it be rationed due to success rates and survival rates and not due to “duh…that costs money…if we not pay…we keep money…you go die now.”

There’s not a person in the Westernized world who would switch to what we have here in America.

Comment #3: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  05/26  at  10:05 AM

Most rational people believe that a more stable universal system will control and reduce costs

And they believe this because there are actually a few real-world models out there which confirm it as a realistic possibility.

Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

We currently spend 17% of GDP, and that spending has one major flaw that Kaus ignores:

Although nearly 46 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.

As in EVERYBODY.

 

Comment #4: R.Porrofatto  on  05/26  at  10:22 AM

“......Ooooh, but they’ll ration care!!!!  You won’t get to see the doctor you choose or use the medicines s/he prescribes!!!!!  osdfsdioo!!! “...

Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes on 05/26 at 09:05 AM

Yes.  And why is it that no one can see how the current employer paid/insurance company controlled system currently limits our freedoms in ways completely disconnected from our health and medical status? 

Can’t change a job, pursue another interest, because someone in the family’s health care could get axed.  Recently, I’ve seen more students take on more classes than they should/can in order to be considered full time students eligible for parental health care coverage.  Or they work more hours to stay full time at their own jobs - thereby endangeringnot only their GP, but their own health, too. Yeah, that’s real freedom alright.

Comment #5: phylosopher  on  05/26  at  10:51 AM

My doctor, whom I’ve had for years and is currently still covered under my current insurance (though I may have jinxed that by mentioning it) recently had to leave his practice of 20+ years.  The hospital they are affiliated with joined a big HMO-ish type thing.  To remain, they are supposed to become more of a 10 min/patient type group, and the rest of his partners said, no thanks. 

My doc, great guy, has a beloved daughter.  Said daughter has a rare genetic condition that would mean death, except that they can replace the hormones/chemicals/whatever that she doesn’t naturally produce with $$$$$$ prescriptions, and with those prescriptions, she can lead a normal life.

He can’t afford to let his insurance change.  So he joined up with the evil hospital, and will be subverting them by seeing patients for as long as he thinks he needs to for as long as he can.

He left his partners and practice not b/c he wanted to, but because he needed to preserve his daughter’s insurance.

And that’s the way it’s supposed to be?  THIS nonsense is better than a nationalized, non-profit single payer system?  They’ve managed not only to screw with the man’s employment, but to fuck over all his patients since he’s being forced into a see-####-patients-a-day system.

Comment #6: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  05/26  at  11:17 AM

“...once Starshine’s ass-sticker wears off.” Ow! I was drinking Fanta, damn you!

Comment #7: Zef  on  05/26  at  04:27 PM

Do you know why it costs so much? Because my insurance doesn’t cover vaccinations, but it will pay for me to be treated should I contract the disease I could have been vaccinated for.

Flexibility my ass. Right now there is only one pharmacy in the entire known universe at which I can get my prescriptions and have them (partially) paid for by my insurance.

Comment #8: Entomologista  on  05/26  at  05:44 PM

But if expensive medical advances added a year or two to my life, I’d be happy to fork over a quarter of my income. Wouldn’t you?

Hmm, no, can’t say that I would.

Because spending a quarter of my income would mean that I wouldn’t ever be able to move out of my parents’ house.  And I’m lucky I have parents who can afford to put me up if I needed it.  I’m not sure how willing they’d be to have their adult daughter living with them indefinitely though.

I guess the alternative would be living in a shithole, hoping I don’t get shot, while eating nothing but ramen noodles.  Which I’m sure would add YEARS to my life, right?

Comment #9: Denise  on  05/26  at  06:15 PM

No, corwin, that has been addressed.  What hasn’t been addressed is that nearly everyone in our nation is beholden to private organizations that will gladly let you die, even if you’ve paid your premiums and the contract obligates them to pay for treatment, if they think they can get away with it.  Oftentimes they’ll initially deny treatment at first just to see if the doctors and patients will just give up, or if the company is really lucky, die before they can resubmit.  Compared to that, the idea that I might be paying for a Mexican’s healthcare doesn’t bother me, but then again I’m not a fucking bigot.

Infinite desire?  Give me a fucking break, we all know that health care has to be rationed, you know we know this; Jesse mentioned it right in his god damned post.  The question is how.  I think I’ll take my chances with the gubmint bureaucrat over the company whose continued profit depends on refusing treatment to as many as possible while taking 20% off the top of all health care costs as profit.

BTW, if you’re such a great scientist, why do you write like a precocious five-year-old?  Don’t they teach you how to check your punctuation and spacing at the university?  Or maybe you’re getting your doctorate in clowning?

Comment #10: Jrod  on  05/26  at  07:10 PM

Is it too early to throw the words of GWB into this fight?

Because I know another too-insulated, reality-disconnected white guy who thinks the problems of Americans’ health care costs stem from the unchecked number of Americans who have “too much insurance”.

Comment #11: ThresherK  on  05/26  at  08:00 PM

Corwin The Illiterate,

I can’t speak for Entomologista, but none of those are covered for me.  You want to know my insurance company so you can check my story (by believing everything they say in their advertising)?  Too bad—I don’t have one.  I’m uninsurable because of something called “preexisting conditions.”  No for-profit insurance company would touch me with a ten foot pole.  If I want health insurance, I need to get it through some kind of group plan (and I don’t have a job that provides one), because I’m a bad investment for a company whose business plan is to get people (on average) to pay them more for health care than the cost of health care they receive in exchange. 

As a doctor and a mathematician (well as an undergrad)
What, pre-med/math double major?  Whoopdie-freaking-doo.  That’s like me going around bolstering my arguments with “as an astrophysicist.”  I honestly couldn’t care less about someone’s major or even qualifications in a discussion like this.  All that matters is if they know what they’re talking about, can make a meaningful argument, and can write coherently enough for me to understand them.  You, however, well…
jesse’s a liberal arts major.Don’t expect her to understand even basic science.
FAIL.
It is left as an exercise for readers to identify the empirical disproof Corwin helpfully provides to his claim of infinite demand precluding a functioning universal health care system.

Oh, and Jesse, goddamn you.  I never thought I’d be more traumatized by Goatse than I already was, but now that it’s associated with Mickey Kaus… *shudder*

Comment #12: Jewbacca  on  05/26  at  08:08 PM

Corwin, you’ll type better if you put the crack pipe down.

Comment #13: deep6  on  05/26  at  09:00 PM

Expensive medical care added three years to my father’s life. For the first of those, he could more or less function as long as his meds were just right and no one asked him to do anything too complicated. For the second of those, he could communicate, over the course of five or ten minutes of increasingly-frustrated search for comprehensible words, that he could no longer understand the stories he read in the newspaper. For the third, he sometimes knew that people were there, but couldn’t really tell who because the nurses took away his effing glasses when he kept knocking them off.

So be careful what you ask for, Mickey.

Oh, and that goes even before the obvious point that by adopting more rational health care systems (pick an industrialized country, pretty much any industrialized country) we could have even more years of healthy life with far less expenditure.

Comment #14: paul  on  05/26  at  09:17 PM
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