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Next entry: South Carolina Federation of Republican Women reimagines “The Southern Experience” Previous entry: Mad Men Tuesdays: Tuesdays Edition

Next week, Cal Thomas just lambasts the entire Bill of Rights

Like Atrios, I feel both surprised that Cal Thomas went there and sadly ashamed that I was surprised.  And by “there”, I mean that Thomas has gone ahead and come out against the First Amendment.

We are doing a poor job of fighting the terrorists at home if we continue to allow Muslim immigrants, especially from Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, into America. We won’t win this war if we permit the uncontrolled construction of mosques, as well as Islamic schools, some of which already have sown the seeds from which future terrorists will be cultivated. We won’t win this war if we continue to permit the large-scale conversion to Islam of prison inmates, many of whom become radicalized and upon release enlist in al-Qaida’s army.

He then suggests that we model ourselves after Syria when it comes to monitoring imams and Muslim congregations.  No word, of course, on whether or not we should extend that surveillance to Christians, even though Christian terrorists are an ongoing problem.  Ask any abortion provider. 

Of course, because some moron will inevitably accuse me of wanting to monitor all Christians, I am not saying that.  It’s a violation of basic human rights and not a good use of limited resources to monitor everyone.  Which is to say that Thomas manages, in a couple of paragraphs, to come out against the Fourth Amendment that protects against unwarranted search and seizure, as well as the First Amendment, that protects the freedom of religion.  My point is simply to draw attention to the wild double standard here.  Thomas would revolt if you proposed putting the same restrictions on Christians that he would have put on Muslims.  Which means, once again, that he and people like him are motivated by delineating who is and isn’t a “real” American, and only extending rights to those people who pass their arbitrary, unconstitutional standards. 

I also want to draw attention to how unabashedly fascist Thomas is, in his use of the term “purging” to describe his proposal to scrub Muslims and presumed Muslims out of our society through immigration restrictions, harassment, preventing prisoners to convert, and disallowing Muslims to build houses of worship. If you suggested that Muslims be pushed into ghettos and had their movements controlled through the use of a badge system, I have little doubt that Thomas and his buddies would be all over that, too.  Of course, we had idiots showing up in comments here and claiming that Islam is an “ideology” and so the concerns about racism are misplaced, as if restricting people’s basic human rights based on a cultural/religious/ethnic identity is so easily bracketed off from previous and similar assaults on Jews, African-Americans, the Irish, etc.  If you don’t think so, ask yourself this: How do you think Thomas and his buddies intend to tell who is Muslim and who isn’t?  Do you think that someone who, like Barack Obama, had a Muslim parent but isn’t Muslim himself would count?  What about someone who isn’t really faithful, but does participate in family occasions and holidays?  What about people who hail from predominantly Muslim countries but aren’t Muslim?  The haters have already made it clear that they don’t distinguish between Al Qaeda and a thoroughly integrated Muslim community center like Park 51, and if anything, they find the latter more threatening because it exposes the lie that is their black and white worldview.  This is about creating an “us” and a “them”, and then scapegoating the “them”.  Truth and basic decency get in the way of that project.

By the way, if it wasn’t true before, it’s now true that the word “balance” has come to mean “right wing propaganda”.  A Maine newspaper ran a fairly pedestrian story about the end of Ramadan on September 11th, and the date gave the bigots their in for freaking out.  And the paper apologized for not having “balance”.  What do they mean by “balance”?  If you show Muslims doing things that threaten to make readers ponder the possibility that they’re human beings, are you obliged to balance that with a story declaring that they aren’t human beings? 

This just reinforces the theory that what is really sending wingnuts around the bend is the understanding that the vast majority of Muslims aren’t terrorists.  They’re harder to scapegoat if the majority of Americans realize that they’re not scary, monstrous, or even particularly different.  And it’s clear that it’s really, really important to wingnut America that Muslims are available as scapegoats.  So any story that is humanizing or informative causes the wingnuts to lose their shit. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 04:52 PM • (55) Comments

What about people who hail from predominantly Muslim countries but aren’t Muslim?

Or, you know, brown people in general.  Why pick nits?

Can you even imagine working at that newspaper?  What must the editors be thinking?  “I don’t want to lose my readership, but clearly these people are insane.”  I can’t imagine the guy who composed the apology missed the irony of his own words - as though some right wing screed would be needed to balance out a completely pedestrian observation.

I remember there was a story out about how in Arizona the school district was going to outlaw teachers who had thick accents.  And my boss - a lovable enough guy, but with some terrible wingnutty ideas - defended that shit.  In front of his Mexican HR Rep who spent the next ten minutes arguing with him over how crazy an idea this was.

I really am left wondering if we’re going to hit some kind of Peak Wingnut any time soon, or whether the crazy is just going to keep getting worse for the rest of my adult life.

Comment #1: Zifnab25  on  09/14  at  06:02 PM

Amanda, people like Cal Thomas would have no problem at all with Muslims, as long as they made the choice to become white and Christian.  And as for the First Amendment, you seem to have forgotten the rule: The Constitution Only Applies to Real People (and by people I mean white, straight, God-fearing Christian men).

Comment #2: mythbri  on  09/14  at  06:05 PM

The fastest way to radicalize a group of people (young people, especially) is to make them feel alienated from society at large instead of welcoming them in.  How many times would a person have to hear, “You’re not one of us,” to start thinking, ‘Well, in that case, I don’t have any stake in YOUR society, do I?”?  Not many, I’m sure.

Wingnuts must be getting tired of individual terrorists; they now want to create them wholesale.

Comment #3: NobleExperiments  on  09/14  at  06:12 PM

The First Amendment was a truly radical idea when it came about—letting people have their say, worship (or not) as they please, print anything they wanted, gather with whom they want… 

These rules came from people who were oppressed in their lives.  They recognized that although they were on top at that moment, they could just as easily be oppressed again in the future.  Out of all the things the Founding Fathers (one of whom I am a blood descendant) did, it is this that I am most proud.

The wingnuts have never been oppressed, and don’t understand why these protections are in place.  I’ve never seriously been oppressed (some criticism for being an atheist, but I wouldn’t call that oppression) but I have empathy, and recognize that it could happen.  Easily. 

For that reason, I support Cal Thomas’s right to say his insane ramblings, and those who wish to publish them, to publish them.  But I also think they are as anti-American as one can get.

Comment #4: James  on  09/14  at  06:26 PM

Oh, he and his ilk aren’t anti-American, they’re as American as apple pie.  A cursory look at our history would show us that.  They certainly don’t live up to the ideals they claim to cherish however, nor does most of the country I believe.  The 70% of the country against the “Ground Zero Mosque” shows that.

Comment #5: John  on  09/14  at  06:32 PM

Letter I have sent to the Portland Press Herald:

Greetings,

I am putting together a book project, “Profiles in Cowardice,” which is an illustration of how America has changed from the era of John F. Kennedy.  I’d like your permission to include your recent column, http://www.pressherald.com/note-of-apology.html in this compilation.

Thank you.

If there is a response, I’ll let you know.

Comment #6: James  on  09/14  at  06:32 PM

I really am left wondering if we’re going to hit some kind of Peak Wingnut any time soon, or whether the crazy is just going to keep getting worse for the rest of my adult life.

Generally, it ends when your neighbours are occupying the smoking remains of your cities.

Or, in this modern world, maybe merely putting “Keep out - radiation hazard” signs around them.

Again, the “fascist America” future history seems more and more plausible - try to imagine the reaction of the US 10 years ago to public arguments about depriving Muslims of civil rights…

Comment #7: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/14  at  06:33 PM

James 4: Separating religion and state was the one of the most radical feature of the American constitution, it was so radical that many Americans did not and still do not accept it.

Jonathan Chait on why Park 51 needs to be built:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/77647/hertzberg-cordoba

Comment #8: Lee  on  09/14  at  06:35 PM

Most of the people who want to “purge” society of muslims probably have no idea what the fuck a muslim is. A lot of people think of sheiks in turbans, or people from India or what have you when they picture a scary muslim.

It reminds me of the time in high school when I was sitting on my neighbors porch on a summer evening and the muslim community center down the street was holding some event; we were sort of lazily watching the muslim people walk by when my neighbor exclaimed “why can’t they just go back to mexico!”

Comment #9: alysia  on  09/14  at  06:37 PM

The only amendments conservatives care about are the 2nd (Guns) and the 10th (States’ Rights). They think the rest of the amendments can go to hell.

Comment #10: draeton  on  09/14  at  06:47 PM

That was fast!

All of your assumptions are wrong, except for one.Put yourself in the first chapter. My readers know where to find me, how to reach me by phone, and in various other ways.
You are among those who hide behind e-mail and make attacks without the facts.

My reply:

That is my real name, with my real email address.  I used the link provided at the bottom of the article—if that is not the way to contact you, then why is it provided?

Comment #11: James  on  09/14  at  06:49 PM

My initial reaction is this.

Thomas certainly has the right to express his opinion, even though he clearly loathes the availability of that very right to anyone on U.S. soil. I don’t understand how someone can advocate these measures and still consider himself a educated and knowledgeable citizen of the U.S. Does Thomas think that the Framers made the Establishment Clause the first bloody graf of the first bloody Amendment at random?

Thomas seems to be taking the Ben Tre approach to saving the Constitution. Christ, what an arsehole.

Comment #12: Gracchus.  on  09/14  at  06:50 PM

try to imagine the reaction of the US 10 years ago to public arguments about depriving Muslims of civil rights…

Ten years ago was before 9/11.  Saudi Arabia and Jordan were our best-est buddies, and the biggest thorn in our side was the staunchly secular nation of Iraq.  Now, if you wanted to sit down with Newt Gingrich or Trent Lott and discuss depriving Mexicans or Atheists or African Americans of their civil rights, you’d be perfectly able to bend an ear.

Miranda Rights didn’t become a dirty word on September 11th.  Segregated schools were still being fought over.  Rap music was a clear and present danger to the nation.

I think you overestimate how liberal the country really was at the turn of the century.

Comment #13: Zifnab25  on  09/14  at  06:51 PM

You are among those who hide behind e-mail and make attacks without the facts.

Come now, James, Cal Thomas’s opinion is worth more than yours because it’s printed on pulp paper and circulated to a (dwindling) subscriber base via a for-profit business. His opinion is worthy enough to fell actual trees and burn actual gasoline. You hippies with your darned electrical gadgets, get off his lawn (groomed twice weekly by “illegals,” no doubt).

Comment #14: Gracchus.  on  09/14  at  06:56 PM

Honestly, did even bin Laden think a rag tag group of 20 using ‘borrowed’ planes would be able to defeat the world’s lone superpower?

I’m so sick of the cowardice and snivelling and unreasonable fear.  The eager sacrificing of liberties in order for security theater and the illusion of safety.

Who knew the fucking country was really so weak?

Comment #15: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/14  at  06:56 PM

Ha. 

Cowards don’t like being called cowards. 

Ramadan fell on 9/11 this year.  It’s just a fact and doesn’t need “balance” any more than Rosh Hashana, Yom Kippur, Hannukah, or even Easter do.  They’re all based off a lunar calendar and shift.

Comment #16: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  09/14  at  07:00 PM

I can’t believe this.  These wingnuts want to defund the Federal government and rewrite the First Amendment to guarantee “freedom of Christianity” and somehow they’re still considered pro-America.  I have no idea what it’s going to take for the major news outlets to stop presenting these backwards, mendacious individuals as one side of a reasonable debate.

Comment #17: ryang  on  09/14  at  07:02 PM

Surprised?

The double standard by which the press treats the left and right makes this very forseeable, if not inevitable.

Most of the people who want to “purge” society of muslims probably have no idea what the fuck a muslim is.

And before Barack Obama was elected president those same people probably thought “Sharia? Didn’t she used to be in Destiny’s Child?</i>.

Comment #18: ThresherK  on  09/14  at  07:04 PM

Whoops, thought James was referring to Cal Thomas. Scatch that and change it to “Richard L.Connor” (Editor and Publisher!!), although I’m sure that Thomas would consider Connor one of the select few who should be allowed to enjoy the <strike>rights</strike> privileges contained in the First Amendment.

Comment #19: Gracchus.  on  09/14  at  07:05 PM

Part of me thinks it would be a great idea to sit a bunch of these fascist wingnuts down and make them watch Riefenstahl’s Triumph des Willens.  And then I realize they’d completely miss the point.  All they’d get out of it is tips on just how to create effective propaganda.  (“Adolf Hitler?  I like the cut of that man’s jib!”...)

(Just like 1984 only brings to them some great new ideas on how to run a country…)

I’m convinced we’re on the path to a genuine, home-grown, all-American, apple-pie, baseball-‘n-hotdogs fascism, looking like a Norman Rockwell painting: white, middle class, and Christian, and marching down Walt Disney’s Main Street.  Carrying American flags.  And guns.  Looking for some Non-Americans to “purge”... 

It makes me think of something like this...

Comment #20: MikeEss  on  09/14  at  07:35 PM

And before Barack Obama was elected president those same people probably thought “Sharia? Didn’t she used to be in Destiny’s Child?. </i>

All I know is that whenever I read about them complaining about “Sharia being unAmerican”, I keep thinking “yeah - but she does have a great ass”...

I really do have to start paying more attention to names.

Comment #21: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/14  at  07:53 PM

Christians are dangerous, with Cal Thomas being a case in point. We won’t win the war against theocracy if we allow more churches to be built or allow them to convert prisoners to Christianity (sorry, all you murderers who “find Jesus” to try to get pardons from wingnut governors.) Oh, and we certainly can’t afford to have them in the armed forces plotting a Christian coup.

See what I did there, Cal?

Comment #22: Steve LaBonne  on  09/14  at  08:06 PM

The thing is that as scary as wingnuts are, and they are scary, tens of millions of Americans are going about their lives blissfully unaware of the political scene in the country. Millions of Americans don’t read newspapers, or watch news on TV, or get it from the internet. I think that Fox’s highest rating are about 2 million people. Thats a tiny fraction of the viewing public. Many voters are going to go and vote on election day without much knowledge of anything. Millions more simply won’t vote, some for good reason others for really bad and banal ones like the don’t want to miss the new episode of Dancing with the Stars.

  Liberal efforts to save the wingnuts are probably useless. What we should focus on is getting the low information voters to become at least medium information voters and getting non-voters to vote and vote for us. Its going to be hard. Lots of people don’t like paying attention to politics. Sometimes its because their personal lives consumes them too much and other times because they think they will be not cool if the pay attention or simple antipathy. This is the way forward though.

Comment #23: Lee  on  09/14  at  08:09 PM

Of course, like many other Pandagonians I often wonder when well this all end and feel filled with despair at the seemingly endless numbers and strength of the American Right.

Comment #24: Lee  on  09/14  at  08:12 PM

I generally buy into Amanda’s meme on defining who are real Americans but I actually think this one’s simpler. Cal Thomas is a theocrat. There are plenty of conservative Christians who still have the Crusader impulse in them—they’d like to see America literally governed as a Christian nation (i.e., they don’t simply buy into the rhetorical concept of a “Christian nation”) and using its power to impose Christianity on the infidels in the run-up to the final judgment. Remember Ann Coulter’s statement after 9/11—“we should kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity”.

This is nothing more than “my God is better than your God”, which, sadly, is one of the oldest justifications for war.

Comment #25: Dilan Esper  on  09/14  at  08:18 PM

One day, some batshit insane right-winger, having listened to Limbaugh or Beck or read right-wing blogs too many times, and tuning in to the messages from Jesus that he’s receiving through his dentures, will decide that Barack Obama is a Muslim terrorist and attempt to assassinate him.

The FBI and Secret Service stand between our President and the raving loons who are being fomented by our poisonous right-wing political climate and the media. I am more worried that the same kind of insane guy will shoot up a less well defended Muslim mosque, school or community center.

Comment #26: sara  on  09/14  at  08:24 PM

sara: Oh, this will happen. I guarantee. A lone moron with a gun is one of the most dangerous things out there.

Comment #27: Lee  on  09/14  at  08:29 PM

sara, that is exactly the point of the whole exercise.

Comment #28: felagund  on  09/14  at  09:20 PM

Muslim is the new Communist. The script these guys follow is straight up Cold War ideology with names and nations substituted. Day by day the similarities grow.

Comment #29: weirdnoise  on  09/14  at  09:22 PM

Zifnab:

I really am left wondering if we’re going to hit some kind of Peak Wingnut any time soon, or whether the crazy is just going to keep getting worse for the rest of my adult life.

Peak Wingnut is usually reached sometime near the end of a globe-spanning war.

All the ingredients are in place. It won’t be much longer, now.

Comment #30: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  09/14  at  09:59 PM

@29: I think it’s worse than that. Muslims is the new Jews. Though to be fair, to the paranoid raving mad right-wing, Jews and Communists tended to get amalgamated into a single whole.

Fascism is the Voltron of right-wing conspiracy theories.

Comment #31: BlackBloc  on  09/14  at  10:02 PM

The Syrian analogy would work if the US were a police state in which a loose alliance of religious minorities rule over the majority, which in turn considers the ruling family and its cohorts to be heretics.

So, if Mitt Romney becomes president and establishes a Mormon police state with the support of non-Protestant Americans, Caliban Thomas can get back to us.

Comment #32: pseudonymous in nc  on  09/14  at  10:54 PM

Liberal efforts to save the wingnuts are probably useless. What we should focus on is getting the low information voters to become at least medium information voters and getting non-voters to vote and vote for us. Its going to be hard. Lots of people don’t like paying attention to politics. Sometimes its because their personal lives consumes them too much and other times because they think they will be not cool if the pay attention or simple antipathy. This is the way forward though.

If Democrats had figured out a way to make voting mandatory, like s lot of countries do, we wouldn’t have to worry so much about apathy.

Comment #33: bay of arizona  on  09/14  at  11:42 PM

If Democrats had figured out a way to make voting mandatory, like s lot of countries do, we wouldn’t have to worry so much about apathy.

Cue Republicans screaming about “freedom!!!!” (meaning, of course, that they prefer that as few peopel vote as possible)

Comment #34: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  09/15  at  12:29 AM

@MikeEss #20 - it’s a rare article on the Tea Party that doesn’t leave me whistling that song.

Comment #35: Matty  on  09/15  at  03:37 AM

@sara: No gun required. They already pipe bombed a mosque in Florida. It’s just not being played on an endless loop in the media because it goes against the “Conservative Christians are peaceful while mooslims are tarrarists!” narrative they try so hard to cultivate.

If the roles were reversed I imagine it we’d be hearing about it for the next six months. Hell if a kind of swarthy looking man tossed a firecracker down a drainage ditch within fifty yards of a Christian church we’d probably never hear the end of it.

Comment #36: JThompson  on  09/15  at  04:20 AM

<a href = “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre”>A brief note on what taking a Syrian approach might involve.</a>

Of course in America it’d probably look more like the “Race Riots” of the 20’s, except directed against Muslim communities.

Comment #37: Grimgrin  on  09/15  at  07:34 AM

Oh what can I say. Motherfucking fascists.

Comment #38: atheist  on  09/15  at  08:27 AM

One day, some batshit insane right-winger, having listened to Limbaugh or Beck or read right-wing blogs too many times, and tuning in to the messages from Jesus that he’s receiving through his dentures, will decide that Barack Obama is a Muslim terrorist and attempt to assassinate him.

I’m pretty sure that the Secret Service has foiled a number of very low profile, rather pathetic assassination plots already.  Wikipedia lists 4 of them, with a fifth that was targeted towards the First Lady.

Like this isn’t a “one day” thing, this is a “once or twice a year” thing.  A lot of the “one day [craziness]” doomsaying I see on the comment threads here are describing things that have already happened.  The world is much, much scarier than any of us know.  No human in existence, from the beginning of society until the end of our species, will ever be able to fathom the breadth of cruelty and madness that exists in the world.

Think about it.  If just 1% of the population is a complete evil fucker, which is a pretty conservative estimate as far as I can tell, then there are sixty seven million complete monsters in the world.  Enough to replace everyone in California and Texas, and then still fill up New York City.  And according to Wikipedia, 3% of males and 1% of females can be classified as having “...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others…”

Sure, Wikipedia may not be the most accurate source, but even with a huge margin of error in those figures, they’re still terrifying.


The world is a terrifying place, filled with terrifying people, and the only thing holding them back is the willingness of everyone else to stand up and shout “No!”

Comment #39: Toitle  on  09/15  at  09:38 AM

“The world is a terrifying place, filled with terrifying people, and the only thing holding them back is the willingness of everyone else to stand up and shout “No!””

...while here in the US at the present moment, we have 20-40% of our populace telling the 1-3% Truly Terrifying People here, “Go ahead and do what you think you have to do.  We don’t want to know how you do it, and we’ll deny we know you or support your terror, but behind the scenes we’re behind you all the way.  As long as the Kenyan Usurper and the rest of the Democrat Traitors go away, we don’t care how you do it.  You’re doing God’s work…”

Comment #40: MikeEss  on  09/15  at  10:01 AM

Some people just Want to see the world burn”, a true story

Comment #41: atheist  on  09/15  at  10:14 AM

Cal Thomas is a theocrat. There are plenty of conservative Christians who still have the Crusader impulse in them—they’d like to see America literally governed as a Christian nation

What Dilan said. Thomas is a theocrat, pure and simple. There’s a disturbing belief among some ultra-conservative Christians (and Mormons) that the Bill of Rights was intended for Christians only. In fact, during Glenn Beck’s nauseapolooza on Fox, he outright said the Constitution and Bill of Rights ban any rights for atheists because these rights are “god-given.”

Comment #42: louC  on  09/15  at  10:50 AM

Most of the people who want to “purge” society of muslims probably have no idea what the fuck a muslim is.

And yet they won’t let that little fact keep them from their “purge” given the opportunity.

Comment #43: Richard Goblin  on  09/15  at  11:25 AM

@Blackbloc

Muslims are a twofer: they’re the new jews and the new Black Panthers. The thing about ordinary muslims is that (like assimilated jews in germany and other countries) they’re not immediately distinguishable from “ordinary people”. One of them might try to marry your daughter, and you wouldn’t know until it was too late. And at the same time as they’re mostly invisible, they’re also uppity brown people who want to kill whitey. Scarey, huh?

Although the image of the jew that antisemites used pre-1945 (and still do to an extent) was the crooked figure with the big nose and the earlocks and the skullcap, what really scared them was the blond or red-haired guy with perfect diction. That’s what made the yellow stars necessary.

Comment #44: paul  on  09/15  at  11:35 AM

“The only amendments conservatives care about are the 2nd (Guns) and the 10th (States’ Rights). They think the rest of the amendments can go to hell.”

And the only care about the 10th when the Democrats control the White House and/or Congress. They weren’t too big on the 2nd Amendment when the Black Panthers were making use of it, either.

Comment #45: witless chum  on  09/15  at  12:00 PM

“They weren’t too big on the 2nd Amendment when the Black Panthers were making use of it, either.”

...but, to be fair, they still think each Black Panther is only worth 3/5 of a Real American, which is obviously the way The Founders wanted it to be since they wrote it into the Constitution.  And it would still be that way if it wasn’t for that meddling Kenyan Usurper Abraham Hussein Lincoln and his War of Northern Aggression…

Comment #46: MikeEss  on  09/15  at  12:20 PM

It’s not only a 2-fer, he compares Muslims to promiscuous women. Here he is:

“Some ancient wisdom about what must be done with evil is helpful for those who would pay attention: “You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 22:21). Instead, we are tolerating, even welcoming evil, under the false assumption that evil can be neutered when it is in the midst of good. If that were so, the good works performed by various cultures would have long ago eradicated evil. Evil must not only be purged, it must be defeated.”

Here is Deuteronomy 22:21

she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Comment #47: JohnL  on  09/15  at  01:46 PM

hey, a buck’s a buck. if mr. thomas wishes to keep his well paid position, he has to ramp up the whacko, just to stay even with glenn and rush.

Comment #48: cpinva  on  09/15  at  02:15 PM

I wonder if we started advocating eliminating gun-rights for muslims if conservatives’ heads would explode.

Comment #49: alysia  on  09/15  at  03:28 PM

“I wonder if we started advocating eliminating gun-rights for muslims if conservatives’ heads would explode.”

Not at all.  They’d come up with some bogus but “sensible” reason why it’s okay to seize guns belonging to lifetime NRA members who happen to be Muslim, while the guns of all us Christian white folk must remain sacrosanct.

Remember, these are the same people who read “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” as meaning the USA was founded as a Christian nation and we have the right to make any religion we don’t like illegal and deport people who are believers in said “wrong” religion, majority rules, no questions asked, no quarter given.

So believing “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” really means that any white, redneck, male, Christian American can own any and all weapons up to and including nukes, while denying the same to Negroes, Messicans, and Mooslims is not a difficult feat of mental gymnastics for those so inclined…

Comment #50: MikeEss  on  09/15  at  04:12 PM

Actually, Ramadan started on August 11th.  September 11 or September 10th (based on various interpretations of the Muslim calendar) was Eid ul Fitr, the celebration of breaking fast.

Ramadan is a month of fasting daily from sunrise to sundown. My understanding of the purpose of Ramadan is that is to remind the faithful that there are many who are hungry and thirsty. By fasting (which includes no liquids during the fast), they experience part of what that feels like.

I am not religious, in fact, I identify as an atheist. But this year, I spent a day fasting like a Muslim, because I respected the political commitment that I recognised in Ramadan. Experiencing even one-day of hunger and thirst was very powerful to me. I wish more of these so-called Christians would take the time to consider what the message of Ramadan really is.

Comment #51: allison  on  09/16  at  12:09 AM

@allison

In fairness to the Christians, many of them also fast.  The Mormons in particular have Fast Sunday every month.  I am less familiar with particular Christian sects, but I know that Mormons aren’t the only ones.

Comment #52: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/16  at  04:43 AM

I’m an atheist, but I know about some of the Christian fasting stuff because I have had friends who used religious fasts to attempt to cover up eating disorders.

Comment #53: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/16  at  04:50 AM

@Atheist

Sure, Christians fast, for various reasons. But what I think is interesting is the OMGMUSLIMS!!!!1111!! reaction to an observance that seems to be in keeping with Christian faith, at least the way Jesus taught it. But I guess we know that most Christianist Tea Partiers hate the poor anyway, so why would they want to learn empathy by experiencing hunger and deprivation?

Comment #54: allison  on  09/16  at  10:36 AM

@allison

Well, the OMGMUSLIMS!!!11!! reaction seems to happen regardless of what the Muslims are actually doing.  If it happens to be extremely similar to something Christians do, well then sleeper agent/tricky Satan/they’re not doing it right.  I take issue with the idea that Christians just don’t really understand the “message.”  I think they do (and in fact have a similar one themselves for the most part), but their worldview values the source of the message over the message itself. 

In addition, to be perfectly honest, (although I have no problems with Ramadan per se) I have considered fasting (to promote empathy or increased spirituality or whatever, there are a lot of claims made) and I don’t think it is a particularly great message.  That does not have any impact on how I feel about Muslims (or Mormons or whomever), but it adds to my skepticism that “I know you think they are evil, but I think they have a really good idea here” is much of an argument for tolerance.

Comment #55: Atheist, A Feminist  on  09/16  at  05:06 PM
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