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Next entry: Oh god, make it stop, why can’t it just stop? Previous entry: Conservatives Realize Sexism Exists; Desk Calendar I Haven’t Changed Since 1998 Is Correct Today

No nationalize!  No no no!

Economy

Michael Lind has an interesting article up today at Salon that’s part history lesson and part suggestion that we draw on the historical reality of corporations (which were first formed as limited entities that served the government, and thus were quasi-public—-like the British East India Company) to create a federal corporate charter that revitalizes the specialization of the quasi-public ones of the past.  I highly recommend it, but I’m blogging it because I admire how Lind just railroads over today’s sacred cows about the evils of nationalization and moves right into grown-up talk.

Which got me to thinking about that particular sacred cow, and sacred cows in general.  Sometimes I think all it takes to create a sacred cow is to wildly overreact if someone violates the wished-for taboo, and hope that everyone’s so busy trying to calm you down and shut you up that they don’t take the time to ask why you’re so damn offended.  This is, of course, the primary way that conservatives conduct themselves in public, so clearly they must think it works.  And really, it does, at least some of the time (I’m not sure the “Sonia Sotomayor is A RACIST!!!1!!!!11!1!!11!” bullshit will take), and that much is clear on the “OMG NATIONALIZATION COMMIE”  fainting couch maneuver.  As an objection, it’s content-free, particularly when it’s clear that companies like GM went out of their way to get bought out by the government.  Sure, that may not have been their conscious intention, but I think we’re looking at the corporate version of the guy (or gal) who, afraid to admit to themselves that they want out of their marriage, starts on a campaign of passive-aggressive bullshit that will force it to happen.  GM did the equivalent of sitting around picking on every little thing you do, acting like any interaction is a chore, stealing the remote, and cheating on you repeatedly.  And when that didn’t work, they had sex with your best friend on the front lawn.  Except in bad business decisions.  Before I stretch this analogy to its breaking point, I’ll just say that it’s hard for anyone to give a shit.

But why should we have in the first place?  I don’t really see why there should be some sort of “break only in case of emergencies” approach to nationalization.  Corporations are traded on public markets, and so they’re not like your house, where you have a right to be selective about when and who buys it.  Except, of course, that you don’t.  At least not when it comes to the right of eminent domain, in which the government can nationalize your house to build a road or a park if they want to.  Oh yeah, and now, thanks to Kelo v. City of New London, the government has a right to nationalize your house so someone can build a shopping mall on it.  The moralistic objections to the government’s nationalization of publicly traded companies sounds weak when that’s your backdrop.

Of course, I’m a couple steps behind on this one.  From what I understand, the wingnut attempts to make partisan hay over the collapse of the auto-making industry have moved towards conspiracy theories wherein the government uses the existence of car dealerships to punish and reward their favoritest people.  Because regression has kicked in for conservatives to the point where they view the government strictly as a toddler views a parent—-a system of rewards and punishments that seems impossible to game when you only have the skills of kicking and screaming.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 10:01 AM • (22) Comments

There’s nationalization, and then there’s nationalization.

The former is what happened here: too big to fail bankrupt corporation begs for government help to get back on its feet and is privatized again after a period of time.

The latter is Fidel Castro style nationalization where companies are seized by the government against their will without compensation. Big fucking difference. But of course wingnuts can’t tell the difference.

Comment #1: Ben D.  on  06/02  at  10:52 AM

Michael Lind has an interesting article up today at Salon that’s part history lesson and part suggestion that we draw on the historical reality of corporations (which were first formed as limited entities that served the government, and thus were quasi-public—-like the British East India Company) to create a federal corporate charter that revitalizes the specialization of the quasi-public ones of the past.

You do have to keep in mind that - 300 years ago - it was the job of corporations to reap money specifically so it could be collected as taxes.  These companies were tools of the state, but the “state” was really just a bunch of heavily landed aristocrats with fancy sounding titles.  The difference between a modern day multi-national conglomerate and the mercantile empire of Queen Elizabeth I was largely in the wallpaper.

It’s the government that’s evolved over the last few centuries.  Corporations are just a continuation of the feudal legacy.  I’m not sure it would be wise to go around co-mingling the two more than necessary.

Comment #2: Zifnab  on  06/02  at  10:59 AM

Well, we could always limit their charters or revoke them at will, but that seems like it’s doomed for corruption.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  06/02  at  11:18 AM

It’s fantastic: the same wingnuts who whinge “government should be run more like a business” are now screaming that the government, which had the temerity to accede to corporate requests for multi-billion dollar capital infusions, is out of line for demanding that incompetent and under-performing executives be fired and/or lose their “bonuses”—just like a real investing business would.

It just goes to show you that most of these Objectivist Captains of Industry couldn’t be trusted to run a street-corner lemonade stand.

I don’t even want to get into what this stupid “nationalise ba-a-ad” taboo is going to do in re: our (insolvent) major banks in the medium- and long-term. That the government is colluding in the dumb-show of bogus stress tests should be deeply disturbing.

Comment #4: Gracchus.  on  06/02  at  12:02 PM

Honestly, if the government nationalized the oil and gas industry and funneled the money generated from that into running the government, we could probably afford to make taxes somewhat lower. Would right-wingers be willing to accept some state-run enterprises created for the purpose of generating money from our natural resources in exchange for lower taxes? I wonder how they’d react to that conundrum.

Comment #5: Tyro  on  06/02  at  12:15 PM

It seems like a lot of poeple assume corporations are run for the public benefit.  Much of the argument for opening up all of the United States for oil and gas devolopement assumes that oil corporations are going to be so grateful they will sell oil cheaply to U.S citizens.  That is not the case the company will sell the oil to the highest bidder, but many people don’t seem to get that part.

Comment #6: John Rove  on  06/02  at  12:39 PM

Would right-wingers be willing to accept some state-run enterprises created for the purpose of generating money from our natural resources in exchange for lower taxes?

You mean like almost every other Western nation?  Nah - can’t see it happening.

Comment #7: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  06/02  at  12:39 PM

Toddlers, at least, usually have ‘cute and adorable’ skills in addition to kicking and screaming.  Conservatives - not so much.

Comment #8: libdevil  on  06/02  at  01:10 PM

I think there is more than enough information and data and track record on nationalization and what is good and bad about it over the long haul to inform the course of action that our government should take here.  It isn’t as if we can’t look to the modern history of Europe for guidance.

Comment #9: Ms Kate  on  06/02  at  01:10 PM

Honestly, if the government nationalized the oil and gas industry and funneled the money generated from that into running the government, we could probably afford to make taxes somewhat lower.

Just like that communist stronghold known as ... ALASKA!

Well, sort of ... Palin isn’t in charge of the oil/gas industry ... she just sleeps with it in her special tanning bed.

Comment #10: Ms Kate  on  06/02  at  01:13 PM

Ms Kate—the problem is that the modern history is replete with great success stories and horrific failure stores, and they seem to be for the exact same situation in different countries.  It’s really weird.

Comment #11: Punditus Maximus  on  06/02  at  01:15 PM

It’s working fairly well for Norway right now.  They have an expanding economy *and* have extended the welfare state during the depression.

I wish Democrats would more aggressively point out that the last time we used nationalization in a broad manner as an economic tool (though this is a in case of fire break window scenario) was in cleaning up the S&L;scandal during the reign of the great socialist overlords Reagan & Bush I. We seem to be stuck in the conservative cycle of decry government intervention, deregulate the hell out of things watch things go to hell as greedy bastards profit, use government money to clean up their mess, decry government intervention….

I’m with you—nationalize and don’t give it back to the greedy bastards.

Comment #12: pennylane  on  06/02  at  01:59 PM

conspiracy theories wherein the government uses the existence of car dealerships to punish and reward their favoritest people

Numbers geek Nate Silver already shredded that ridiculousness being spouted off by Limbaugh.

The theory was that when they announced the closure of thousands of car dealerships in the past few weeks, Obama was specifically targetting car dealers that are owned by people who donate to Republicans.

It’s true - the vast majority of car daelers being shut down are owned by people who donate to Republicans.  But as Silver pointed out, the vast majority of ALL car dealerships are owned by Republican donors - nearly 90% of them are owned by people who donate to the GOP.  Odds are, if you close a whole bunch of car dealerships, the majority of those closed will be owned by Republicans.

Comment #13: DTG in STL  on  06/02  at  02:24 PM

which were first formed as limited entities that served the government, and thus were quasi-public—-like the British East India Company

Okay.  Except that those corporations often used the government to create a monopoly (like the British East India Company), forcing their products on British subjects and quashing any competition.  This is a huge reason why the 13 colonies revolted.

Comment #14: keshmeshi  on  06/02  at  02:46 PM

I always LOVE showing “The Corporation” the Canadian film to my students.  That part about the history of corporations (limited term, specific purpose, unable to own other companies and LIABLE for harms caused) and how the 14th amendment changed the, when the legal fiction of a corporate person was introduced.

It seems to be a real eye-opener - for some reason, most Americans just don’t realize that what is, isn’t “the way it’s always been.”

Comment #15: phylosopher  on  06/02  at  03:52 PM

Ben D.:

The latter is Fidel Castro style nationalization where companies are seized by the government against their will without compensation. Big fucking difference. But of course wingnuts can’t tell the difference.

It really is unfortunate that the word “nationalize” is used for this.

Again, I am constantly struck by conservatives’ pathological inability to differentiate between Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Clinton’s America, and modern Scandanavia. They actually think that all four of those societies are/were precisely identical in structure, praxis, and philosophy. It’s hard to argue that government bailouts aren’t totalitarian communism with people who don’t know the first fucking thing about political science, economics, or history.

Comment #16: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  06/02  at  06:17 PM

”...nationalize and don’t give it back to the greedy bastards.”

...sell it back, but don’t give it back.  It’s only what any good Capitalist would do…

Comment #17: MikeEss  on  06/02  at  08:23 PM

One of the things that’s so annoying about the current bank bailout posturing is that the federal government could have bought every one of those banks at the bottom of the market for a fraction of what’s been pumped in to keep current management and shareholders fat and happy.

But I think that the issue of using government power to give advantages to corporations the government owns (outside fairly narrow areas of necessary utilities) is a hard one to deal with—it makes the current ambience of complete regulatory capture look utterly arms-length. (Or to put it another way, conservatives have taught us to believe that GM ought the be running the country rather than the other way around.)

Comment #18: paul  on  06/02  at  09:58 PM

The car industry is failing because the credit industry is failing because the home bubble is failing because the jobs are failing because the home and car industry is failing because the consumer is failing to buy a lot of stuff with money it lacks and credit it can’t get anymore.  Clearly, the solution is to repair jobs, housing, transportation, sales taxes, solid investments, and good business practices while also demanding restraint from consumers who will be tempted to buy more than they can afford.

Prosperity is just around that corner we crashed into because we didn’t read the roadsigns.

Comment #19: 3letterjon  on  06/02  at  10:09 PM

Because regression has kicked in for conservatives to the point where they view the government strictly as a toddler views a parent—-a system of rewards and punishments that seems impossible to game when you only have the skills of kicking and screaming.

Goddam. That’s beautiful. And you know beauty is truth, and truth, beauty.

Comment #20: hamletta  on  06/03  at  02:46 AM

Ben D.:  That conflation is why I prefer Simon Johnson’s term for nationaliztion:  “pre-privitization”.

Speaking of Simon Johnson, he’s becoming pretty much the only good thin about Planet Money.  Apologies if this is slightly OT, but this interview with Elizabeth Warren, where Adam Davidson keeps trying to “make her angry” by accusing her of only using her committee to follow her pet causes, is just so many kinds of awful it’s hard to know where to start, though the commenters all give it their best effort—of the first three full pages, none supported the show in their hatchet job.  They also called Davidson out on his sexism (it strains credulity to believe he would have treated Warren the way he did if she were a man).

The full interview is here, and it makes you scratch your head at the end:  Why did they condense the interview to the most overly hostile segment?  Well, okay, not scratch your head so much as roll your eyes.

Anyway, Warren’s great, and she (along with Sheila Bair), need as large an audience as possible.

Comment #21: NY Expat  on  06/03  at  04:03 AM

As far as I’ve seen the same people who are currently complaining about nationalization objected pretty strongly to Kelo.

Comment #22: ScaryIntolerantFundy  on  06/04  at  01:21 AM
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