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Next entry: This Is What Grammar Jesus Made Awkward Ellipses For Previous entry: Director Kevin Smith booted from flight because of Southwest’s anti-fattie policy

Not that complicated

EducationFundies

This review of the hellish situation in Texas, where a bunch of school board members are waging war on the Enlightenment through textbook standards, could have been a lot more interesting than it is.  But for some reason, writer Russell Shorto actually tries to establish some sort of reason to a group of fundamentalist Christians arguing for teaching that America is a “Christian nation”, even though the very same group of people believe the planet is only 10,000 years old and Margaret Sanger was some sort of Satanic prophet of a birth control religion.  Shorto doesn’t go as far as to suggest that the attempts to rewrite history to villainize any kind of progress from secular government to the labor movement are in any way, shape, or form anything short of ridiculous, evil propaganda, but in his eagerness to muddy the waters with a little “both sides” crap, he makes some specious arguments.

There is, however, one slightly awkward issue for hard-core secularists who would combat what they see as a Christian whitewashing of American history: the Christian activists have a certain amount of history on their side…..

In his reply, Jefferson said it was not the place of the president to involve himself in religion, and he expressed his belief that the First Amendment’s clauses — that the government must not establish a state religion (the so-called establishment clause) but also that it must ensure the free exercise of religion (what became known as the free-exercise clause) — meant, as far as he was concerned, that there was “a wall of separation between Church & State.”

This little episode, culminating in the famous “wall of separation” metaphor, highlights a number of points about teaching religion in American history. For one, it suggests — as the Christian activists maintain — how thoroughly the colonies were shot through with religion and how basic religion was to the cause of the revolutionaries.

It’s an enormous stretch to take an episode where Jefferson went out of his way to argue for a secular government that takes no stance on religion is in fact evidence that the fundies have a point in the slightest about how America is a “Christian nation”.  It’s misleading your audience to play footsie with ideas like this.  Shorto takes way too seriously some of the fundie kicking around of historical facts they’ve gleaned here and there—-such as the fact that the Puritans seemed to be interested in god and some states had official religions in the early days of the nation.  That they aren’t completely illiterate doesn’t make them intellectual in the slightest; they weave together selectively picked facts to create a narrative about our country’s history that has no grounding in reality, in order to argue for theocracy, which directly and obviously goes against even the softest reading of the First Amendment.

It’s all well and good for Shorto to argue that religion played a role in our nation’s history, but to suggest that there are “hardcore secularists” who deny this is pure straw.  Most “secularists”—-i.e. people of various private beliefs who think the government should not favor one religion over others or over non-belief—-that I know of would happily agree that it’s cowardly not to talk about the way religious rhetoric played out in American politics and culture at various points in time.  Passages like this mislead the audience about what’s really going on here:

In fact, the founders were rooted in Christianity — they were inheritors of the entire European Christian tradition — and at the same time they were steeped in an Enlightenment rationalism that was, if not opposed to religion, determined to establish separate spheres for faith and reason.

Okay….. but I get the impression Shorto is trying to find some “in-between” space between meanie civil liberties types and moronic fundamentalists.  But this statement above isn’t anything that even hardcore atheist activists would disagree with. We would just point out that the Enlightenment was about stepping away from allowing religion to define every aspect of life, from knowledge-gathering to government.  No one is suggesting we whitewash the impact of Christianity on Western culture and American culture.  Nor should we pretend the Enlightenment wasn’t a step towards secularism. 

Overall, this article was really interesting reading and I highly recommend it.  But like it or not, this issue isn’t as complicated as Shorto is making it out to be. The fundies on the Texas School Board reject the Enlightenment, and are trying to deny outright the impact it had on the Founding Fathers and our nation’s development.  They may have fancy degrees or be able to bullshit to reporters with the best of them, but at the end of the day, they’re Bible-thumpers who aren’t really interested in history, except as a source of figures to exploit to confuse the issue.  Their main goal is to make history classes so confusing that your average voters don’t understand that there’s a separation between church and state—-or how said separation actually protects most religions right along with protecting atheist and agnostic belief.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 07:17 PM • (35) Comments

I suppose it’s too much to expect any of these idiots to have read the treaty of Tripoli (Yes, that Tripoli, as in from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of):

  “The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation.”
      —Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams

Comment #1: Keith  on  02/15  at  07:55 PM

The Founders mostly believed in God, whether they were Jews, Christians, or Deists. But fundamentalists fail to realize that their version of Christianity would have been unrecognizable to the Founders, being a mishmosh of conservatism, capitalism, and libertarianism, all under a cross-topped roof.

Comment #2: Hector B.  on  02/15  at  08:12 PM

One of the underlying problems here is that we’ve come to treat basic educational standards — and by extension, knowledge in general — as just another thing to be voted upon by everyone in the country, regardless of whether they have any real business doing so or not. Ironically, that itself is a legacy of the Enlightenment.

And as someone who works with high school kids on a daily basis, I can say from experience that 99.9% of them don’t give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about “founding principles,” or much of anything else the crypto-fascist Right thinks is important. Hell, most of them don’t even care about the history of hip-hop, and that’s something they actually like.

Comment #3: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  02/15  at  08:17 PM

Keith, get a friggng clue. They are talking about the Founders. You know, the great men who Founded our nation, not some group of activist elected officials that happened to be around a few years later. Because our Founders were anointed by God, not elected by men.

And besides, who cares what somebody wrote in some treaty with some people in Africa somewhere? Treaties only count if they are supported by the Bible and made with other Christian countries. Otherwise, they are just, sort of suggestions, to be ignored whenever they are inconvenient.

Don’t you read your Bible?

Comment #4: Lymis  on  02/15  at  08:19 PM

Dan, it’s true that they don’t give a flying fuck in high school.  But the hope is that when they get a little older and many of them start to care about this stuff, they won’t have their knee-jerk anti-secularism/anti-atheism tendencies contained by any brief memories of learning about the separation of church and state in high school.  Nowadays, the only reason the public at large doesn’t get even uglier about these things is that they learned this shit, and begrudgingly remember it almost half the time.

Comment #5: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/15  at  08:23 PM

False balance is slowly undermining the necessary mainstream information that serves as the lifeblood of our democracy.  Here’s an example of how the media, by the logic of the nation’s “leading” media critic,does’t seem to understand what objectivity and balance really mean, with a stunning example regarding John McCain, whom the media was so “unfair” to in 2008.

Here’s an example (skip to middle if you want to see the case against Beck that has not yet been this cohesively made) when it comes to Glenn Beck, of how out of whack with true investigative journalism our false balance media is becoming.And how rather than serving as a check upon it, it is actually promoting deception and/or profound ignorance.

This media false balance,  stenography, and media oligopoly (and over corporatization) problem is the real problem in America, the root of everything—information and perception.

The second link above, by the way, asks Washington Post publisher, and Executive Editor, Marcus Brauchli, a very public, and relevant question—and no answer, apparently, is thus far indicated. Maybe more emphasis needs be placed on getting an answer?

By the way, where are opponents of what the Texas School Board is doing?  It is out of control.  A federal case needs to be made out of it. Blatant propaganda in school kid textbooks is a BAD DIRECTION in a free country.

Comment #6: Check it  on  02/15  at  09:06 PM

Hey, we’re already most of the way there.

My child was taught in his textbook that the “under god” line in the Pledge of Allegiance means that the United States is “led by God”.  Lynne FUCKING Cheney is in his reader ‘teaching’ him how wonderful the battle of Valley Forge was.

If ultrablue Chicago in ultrablue Illinois can’t get away from this shit, no one else has a chance.

Comment #7: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  02/15  at  09:22 PM

@7 I always remember being pissed at some of the crypto bullshit in history textbooks over the course of growing up. Most egregious example and something that pisses me off still today was one on ancient Egypt that said that the Pyramids were built with the top pointing to Heaven. Yeah, Egyptian underworld was underground, it was “pointing” to Ra, the sun god.

I wonder though, if on general, we have been seeing the slow leak of the religious attempts to poison education. I mean, there have been some direct assaults recently, targeting evolution and a decent education in biology as well as trying to literally rewrite basic American history, but a couple of hundred years ago, schools were set in churches and taught only basic literacy using bible passages and religious primers. 50-60 years ago, open propaganda primers were used in most classrooms so that learning how to read was coupled with lessons on the evils of communism and the rightness of suburban living and women and men were separated into gender-specific educational tracks with for instance, mandatory home ec. 30 years ago and even spending the shortest month of the year having a “on-the-wall” lesson in african american history was a personal struggle of teacher against school board.

In short, yeah, the assaults are bad and worth fighting because having an informed public is crucial on so many levels, but I wonder if it’s as across the board bad as we assume it is.

Also, luckily, especially regarding the bulk of their plans is two aspects that the christian right seems wonderfully blissfully ignorant of. A) Any attempt to rewrite modern US history doesn’t matter. If it happened in the last half of the 20th century, no class will ever reach it. I think the closest to present I ever got was an AP class in high school got to the 60s and a class in college on 20th century America alone managed to make it to the 80s and a little bit into the 90s right before finals when no one was really paying attention because they were too busy studying. So they can write how Reagan and Gingrich made everything wonderful with tax cuts while mean old Mr. King tried to kill whitie with his uzi of blackness and the only people who will see it is bitter teachers and the type of intellectually curious student who’d be likely to double check that kind of suspect shit.

Which brings up B) Kids have the internet. Furthermore a lot of kids are trained to use the internet and rely on it greatly for a lot of direct information. So, spreading a bunch of bullshit and trying to muddy the waters just enough to undermine the Enlightenment will get undermined by the electronic Enlightenment. Kids will just wikipedia the scary liberal figures and the glorious right-wingers and the actual accomplishments they had may be wonderful to the fundies, but to kids it’s going to seem abhorrent. Wait, Phyllis Schaffley’s big accomplishment is blocking a really meek amendment recognizing women as equal? Ronald Reagan’s big accomplishment is a missile defense network that didn’t work and communist witch hunts in Hollywood? Newt Gingrich was a hypocritical douchebag? The internet makes the sort of “control the education, control the future” scheme they’re trying here a lot less impactful than it would have been even 5-10 years ago.

In the age of “don’t cite wikipedia in your essay”, the too busy taking tests to learn anything approach is probably doing a greater job of reducing intellectual curiosity than trying to Orwell the history books.

Comment #8: Cerberus  on  02/15  at  09:45 PM

Check It, I’ve let it go long enough, but I thought bloggers who only commented to riddle their comments with links to their blogs got a clue like 4 years ago.

Comment #9: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/15  at  09:49 PM

Seems to me that one of the problems is that we tend to over-venerate the Founders—the fundies more than others. The Founders did some great things, and they were far from perfect, but the thing they generally were was pragmatic, and I seriously doubt that Jefferson or Hamilton or Madison or any of the others would look kindly on us trying to prise out 21st solutions from 17th century ideas. We don’t live in that world anymore, and we know that. The fundies know it too and are trying to turn the clock back. But they can’t succeed—the best they can hope for is to break shit up in the attempt.

Comment #10: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  02/15  at  10:08 PM

how thoroughly the colonies were shot through with religion and how basic religion was to the cause of the revolutionaries.

In fact, the founders were rooted in Christianity — they were inheritors of the entire European Christian tradition

I don’t like these two quotes.  I don’t like the way the first one confuses “shot through with religion” with “shot through with Christianity”.  Thomas Jefferson seemed to accept that Jesus existed in a historical sense, but he identified himself as a Unitarian, and wrote and said a variety of skeptical and critical things about Jesus that reflected that he didn’t believe Jesus was the son of god.

And a lot of the founding fathers were Unitarians (Ben Franklin, John and Abigail Adams).  And I don’t like the way the second quote suggests that even people who rejected Christianity in favor of a more vague deism were still rooted in Christianity because they descended from European Christians.

Comment #11: Wallace  on  02/15  at  10:31 PM

Black history month and they have a sign that reads “Teach founding principles Not Hip-Hop”. Classy.

Also, they should teach conservative history. How else are people going to remember Ronald Reagan backed death squads across central america, tripled the national debt and supported apartheid. How else are people going to remember Newt Gingrich shutting down congress because he wanted Clinton to cut medicare and his giant hypocrisy as he hounded Clinton over Lewinsky while conducting an affair of his own the whole time.

Comment #12: pharmakos  on  02/15  at  10:31 PM

Not my blog, but Lance Manion did a great takedown of the NY Times magazine article as well—> http://lancemannion.typepad.com/lance_mannion/2010/02/thomas-jefferson-fought-the-battle-of-jericho-jericho-jericho.html

Comment #13: Vir Modestus  on  02/15  at  10:43 PM

One of the reasons that the founders were so serious about the separation of church and state was that they were inheritors of the european christian tradition. Nothing like the example of centuries of brutal warfare, repressive police states with informers paid to get their neighbors and families tortured, hanged or burned, people forced to flee across oceans to escape religious persecution to give you the idea that imperfect human beings’ perception of the Divine Will is a lousy basis for government. Oh, and just in case they hadn’t gotten the message from the European part of their patrimony, there was century of religious murders and doctrinal cleansings on this side of the pond to drive the point home.

Comment #14: paul  on  02/15  at  10:46 PM

I just finished reading a book in the Oxford History of the US series covering the period from 1815-1848.  In particular, it covered in depth the many religious movements, splinter groups, revivals, and millennial societies during that era and its impact on the intellectual development of our nation.  A couple points: 

1. US was overwhelmingly religious during that era.  Mostly protestant - until the War of Mexico and the Irish Famine in Ireland brought in large swaths of practicing Catholics. 

2. BUT - and here’s the most important point which modern day evangelicals miss completely - those movements by and large PROMOTED scientific and fact based study.  They saw no contradiction between their religious views and scientific pursuit.  In fact, it fit very neatly with the very protestant ethic of self-improvement. 

The modern day evangelicals would be virtually unrecognizable to the Christians of that era.  In addition, most early feminists sprung from the democratization and spread of religious fervor.  If the evangelists truly wanted to adopt the civic values of a bygone era, they’d embrace MORE scientific pursuits, MORE feminist theory, and BETTER racial understanding.

Comment #15: oldmancoyote22  on  02/15  at  11:26 PM

The modern day evangelicals would be virtually unrecognizable to the Christians of that era.

I think a puritan would recognize an asshole at close range

Comment #16: pharmakos  on  02/15  at  11:38 PM

Touche!  LOL.

Comment #17: oldmancoyote22  on  02/15  at  11:43 PM

Amanda,

Nah, ‘were still trying.  I think the links are valid, and the points made in the comment are solid.

I guess I could write a long comment like cerebus did, about how it’s not that big a deal, because, well, kids have the (no, not at all, self selecting) Internet. And because, well, teaching kids propaganda in schools now is maybe not that big a deal because a long time ago maybe there used to be more propaganda in schools (back when we also, however, had a functioning media, I hasten to point out)

Yeah, those links and my comments suck.

Hey, at least it’s not riddled with ads for um, uh, enlargements, like the blog I had before I ditched it because viagra and cialis and another unwritable word took it over.

Why the f’ck don’t you focus on making a god dmnn f’g difference and try’g to open up some people’s minds, instead of friggn just whining and complaining to the knee jerk choir all the time, being overly disparaging, and calling everyone who dsn’t agree with said choir idiots, liars, or worse.

Oh, thats right. cause on the increasingly polarizing Internet, the same ones that’ll make up for lousy semi propagandish textbooks, sht that dsn’t do that is so, well, um, lame.

::)

Ah fck, I forgot to put a link in.

Anyway, I’ll try to keep it in balance, thanks fo da heads up. (seriously)

Comment #18: Check it  on  02/15  at  11:46 PM

A couple of things to keep in mind about the Founders and their religion(s):

Not one of the Founders was “Rapture-Ready”, because the doctrine of the Rapture is a 19th Century invention.

And not one of them came from a state where abortion was illegal.

Comment #19: Dr. Psycho  on  02/15  at  11:51 PM

Progressive parents are gonna need vouchers to keep their little ones from being indoctrinated by the public schools.  smile

Comment #20: Seth  on  02/15  at  11:54 PM

Enh, schools are prisons.

Comment #21: Punditus Maximus  on  02/16  at  12:05 AM

I’m all like, How can the NYTM mention David Barton and not note the many “Christian remarks from our founders” that he has totally made up.  And invented.

Comment #22: Josh  on  02/16  at  01:37 AM

The modern day evangelicals would be virtually unrecognizable to the Christians of that era.
- - -
I think a puritan would recognize an asshole at close range

Puritans were Calvinists. But even Methodists and Baptists had yet to be recognized as separate and distinct churches, and not just reformist movements within existing churches.

Comment #23: Hector B.  on  02/16  at  03:33 AM

In the age of “don’t cite wikipedia in your essay”, the too busy taking tests to learn anything approach is probably doing a greater job of reducing intellectual curiosity than trying to Orwell the history books.

The main reasons for most Profs and teachers banning students from citing wikipedia are:

1. Same reason why they ban/strongly discourage the citation of encyclopedia articles as they are supposed to be used as the starting point of researching other primary and secondary sources…not sources unto themselves unless you’re actually writing an essay about such articles. 

2. Wikipedia can be edited and corrected by anyone which means that anyone who has an interest in said topic can edit said article…..even if they happen to be grossly ignorant and/or heavily biased.  Doesn’t help matters when there are frequent rollback wars between two or more extremely polarized editors/groups of editors with their own respective biased agendas.  I’ve had to correct some egregious errors anyone with a rudimentary exposure of the topic should have caught such as one article about the Emperor Guangxu(reigned 1875-1908) where some idiot said the Empress Dowanger Cixi was his biological mother when she was actually his aunt….a critical mistake no one who took a survey course on modern Chinese history or someone who grew up studying Chinese history in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or China would have made. 

It would be the equivalent of an American educated and socialized from birth in US schools and society who didn’t know the American Revolution involved the British in some way…..rolleyes

Comment #24: exholt  on  02/16  at  06:05 AM

It may be derailing a little, but I do think it’s interesting that the US church/state separation model came out of, as someone said upthread, observation of the horrors wrought by religion intertwining with politics in Europe - when now, many European states (such as the UK) don’t practice this separation formally, but in actual fact have very secular government. 

In the UK we have an official, estabilished church, we learn about religion in schools, hell, we used to sing hymns in morning assembly when I was at school, but our politics is no way as suffused with religion as it seems to be in the US.

My point being that whether a state is secular seems to matter less about the structure of the government (separation or not separation) and more on the attitude of the populace.

Comment #25: Katherine  on  02/16  at  06:58 AM

No problem, Check It.  Believe me, I know the struggles of building an audience.  But link whoring isn’t really the way to do it.  You have to be more subtle, because human beings and their rules and their etiquette.  wink

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/16  at  10:55 AM

To a degree, Katherine.  The UK also got to the point of de facto secularism because of the horrors of theocracy.  But yes, the craziness of our Christians means that we have to build the wall between church and state even thicker.

Comment #27: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/16  at  10:57 AM

odd, i thought valley forge was the winter encampment of the american army (1777-1778), not a battle. lyn cheney can’t even get basic US history correct?

“teaching’ him how wonderful the battle of Valley Forge was.”

the founding fathers were as religious as they needed to be, mostly for political purposes, a pattern still pretty much followed today. having witnessed the problems inherent in mixing religion and government (in europe and the colonies), they had no wish to continue it, hence the “establishment” and “free exercise” clauses, of the first amendment.

the religious fundies of our time have created their own version of history, bearing little relation to the reality. the media, not wanting to be accused of a “liberal bias”, does nothing to point out the fallacy of the fundie’s position.

the net result is a texas school board.

Comment #28: cpinva  on  02/16  at  12:51 PM

Those fundies are so backwards, they can only see what’s behind them.

Comment #29: Lyr  on  02/16  at  01:22 PM

1.The Founding Fathers were Deists. (Not all of course, but some of them)
2. The Treaty of Tripoli was written when Washington was still POTUS.
3.5. Those who cite the Treaty of Tripoli as evidence that this nation was not founded on the Christian religion, usually ignore the Treaty of Paris of 1783. This Treaty, negotiated by Ben Franklin and John Adams among others, is truly a foundational document for the United States, because by this Treaty Britian recognized the independence of the United States. The Treaty begins with the words, “In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity… ,” and there is no dispute about its validity or its wording.http://www.tektonics.org/qt/tripoli.html
Of course you’re always going to get some Bible Thumper to argue about it…

Comment #30: pitbullgirl65  on  02/16  at  02:11 PM

“The modern day evangelicals would be virtually unrecognizable to the Christians of that era.  In addition, most early feminists sprung from the democratization and spread of religious fervor.  If the evangelists truly wanted to adopt the civic values of a bygone era, they’d embrace MORE scientific pursuits, MORE feminist theory, and BETTER racial understanding.”

Not only that, but the ancestors of today’s Baptists were huge supporters of the separation of church and state in Jeffereson’s time, because they knew they were going to be the ones who got squeezed or worse by the more mainstream churches of the time.

The modern ones presumably think they have the power to enforce not just Christianity, but their brand of Christianity one everyone, but they really don’t. If schools started posting 10 Commandments, there would be arguments on the school board about which denomination’s precise wording to use and they’d be damning one and other to hell before it was time to adjourn.

Comment #31: witless chum  on  02/16  at  04:27 PM

I live in Savannah, GA, a city that often feels like it respects historic buildings more than people. We have two markers documenting that George Washington broke bread with Jewish and Episcopal congregations on his goodwill tour of the United States.

Unfortunately, a case in California regarding Wiccans in the correctional system reveals that “freedom of religion” only applies to “official” religious faiths.

Comment #32: CBrachyrhynchos  on  02/16  at  06:17 PM

Unfortunately, a case in California regarding Wiccans in the correctional system reveals that “freedom of religion” only applies to “official” religious faiths.

The District Court ruled that volunteer chaplain McCollum lacked standing to assert the free exercise claims of third-party inmates.  Let Wiccan inmates sue the Department of Corrections to get Wiccan chaplains—then things can move.

Comment #33: Hector B.  on  02/16  at  10:59 PM

Hector B.: I was referring to the briefs filed in support of the Department of Corrections that argue first amendment protections only apply to already-recognized religious faiths.

Comment #34: CBrachyrhynchos  on  02/17  at  03:36 PM

<i>first amendment protections only apply to already-recognized religious faiths/i>

I can’t find any of the Cal Dept of Corrections court filings on the web.

Comment #35: Hector B.  on  02/19  at  04:11 AM
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