Good post, but please don’t refer to the anti-abortion (or womb ownership, more like) movement by its own Orwellian “pro-life” moniker. Dr. Tiller’s family could testify to just how much they really value life.

What is wrong is that they do in fact condone cold blooded murder and have done so for decades.  They just use weasel words to do it.  These anti-abortion radicals are terrorists, pure and simple.  “Pro-life” my hairy white hillbilly ass.

“They certainly have every right to protest - and I mean that, and I truly believe that.”

I’ll believe that when I see a slavering horde of screaming protesters a) picketing dentists’ offices or clinics specializing in joint replacement and b) getting the same preferential treatment.  I’ve got little doubt that if, for instance, PETA engaged in one-tenth the borderline- or flat-out-terrorist bullshit the anti-choicers do with regards to meat-eating, they’d be shut down hard.  The anti-choicers are treated as if they have a right to violently protest another citizen’s fucking medical care because society still views women’s right to medical care as controversial and women seeking medical care as engaging in a political act, which is ten different kinds of fucked up.

When you repeatedly whip your followers up into a frenzy of emotion over all of the “babies being murdered,” how can you even pretend to be shocked when one of them follows what you’ve told them to its logical conclusion, especially when it’s happened multiple times in the past?

If the “pro-life” crowd had actual responsible people in it and not just wanna-be terrorists, they would have done something after the murder of Dr. Slepian to dial down the rhetoric but, no, it just inspired them to ratchet it up even higher in the hopes that they could incite the radicals within their ranks to do it again.

Now, thanks to Scott Roeder, hundreds of women will die or be permanently injured because they couldn’t end the pregnancy gone wrong that was killing them or their fetus.  And “pro-life” people are cheering on the deaths of those women to prove ... what?  That pregnancies never go wrong?  That a woman who dares to be pregnant with a child who has a fatal birth defect should die because it’s proof that she made God angry?  What is the point they’re trying to get across with these pointless deaths?

“They certainly have every right to protest - and I mean that, and I truly believe that.”

I would mind a whole lot less if their protests involved anything approaching ethical behavior.  Intimidating, harassing, and berating clinic staff and patients at their homes, places of work and worship, and in the community?  Not okay, even if it is technically legal.

Let’s not forget that there are pro-lifers out there actively condoning this murder *right now.* They’re fighting against their own membership here.

Publicly, they say that they don’t condone this kind of behavior, but I’m sure that plenty of forced-birth supporters are secretly praising this murderer.  We already know how little these people value life if that life threatens to remove oppression from women.

What’s most disturbing to me is that the overwhelming majority of anti-abortion rights activists don’t believe that “abortion is murder.”  For most, it’s just a mindless chant that provides moral cover for their actual belief: “abortion should be illegal because women are stupid, irresponsible sluts.” 

Problem is, a minority actually swallow this tripe, which leads to bomb threats, actual bombings, assaults, and sometimes murder.  Yet, “pro-life” assholes keep spouting their nonsense.  This actually gives me a little bit of sympathy for the man who murdered Tiller.  This guy had probably been told all his life that Tiller was a modern day Mengele.

Lessee ... RICO or Patriot Act ... which should the FBI use ...

It has shades of the thought that as soon as someone resorts to terrorism in favour of any cause, that cause is discredited.  This does not follow.

Yes it does.  Terrorism, by it’s nature, targets a helpless portion of the population for political purposes.  While I might agree that not all resistance is terrorism; I disagree that terrorism is ever acceptable.

Because terrorism in support of a cause is SO reasonable.

preying, I think Jesse was referring to actual protest—-going to the Supreme Court and taping up their mouths, or whatever stupid thing they want to do.  I don’t consider clinic intimidation to be legit protest, and I think our government is too cowardly to protect women from harassment.

Mandos, his statement certainly doesn’t imply that.  He’s just pointing out that anti-choice organizations so obviously condone violence in a myriad of subtle ways that they have to cover their asses in ways that groups that don’t condone violence do not.

It has shades of the thought that as soon as someone resorts to terrorism in favour of any cause, that cause is discredited.  This does not follow.

I disagree.  The “pro-life” movement has positioned itself close enough to violent extremists that it does bear responsibility.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I’m not sure I agree with this one.  It has shades of the thought that as soon as someone resorts to terrorism in favour of any cause, that cause is discredited.  This does not follow.

They are discredited when they claim they’re a “pro-life” cause, at the same time they engage in barely concealed rhetoric of violent, life-endangering “solutions” to impose their views on the rest of us. That’s why the “reasonable” anti-choicers are now all half-heartedly back-pedalling, or studiously ignoring the incident.

That’s why I expect that our own “reasonable” anti-choicers, Dana and his toady EricJG, will be notably absent from these threads, even though the abortion issue is one of the top two reasons they comment here.

It’s time for the right-wing to denounce and reject Operation Rescue. They have to be held to the same standard that they demanded from Obama regarding Bill Ayers—a man who never killed anyone.

The worst part is that this terrorist murdered a doctor who provided therapeutic abortions to save lives.  It’s really bad when conservative want to force women to go through morning sickness, back pain, and several months of slut-shaming with a painful birth at the end, force women to buy entire new wardrobe for just a few months, force women to stay in relationships with abusive partners or drop out of school and live in poverty forever or go through the often difficult choice of adoption.  However, it’s even worse when someone actually wants to force women to die.  I thought that most anti-choicers at least supported exceptions for the life of the woman, but maybe it’s all a bunch of PR that they don’t really believe.

Also, it’s terrible that some terrorist would pretend to be supporting the Christian point of view (even the Bible clearly says that fetuses are not equivalent to people) and then murder someone in a church.

pro-life movement

I prefer “forced birth” movement, because the assassinations, both carried-out and attempted, make “pro-life” an oxymoron.

Not to be a concern troll, but from what I understand, no one really knows Sotomayor’s views on abortion. I hope she doesn’t get a pass because she’s a woman, then turn out to be a Trojan horse on the issue. That doesn’t seem likely, but you never know.

Bitter Scribe, we’re all suspicious about her views on abortion, but we would have to be suspicious of any candidate, as we’re not allowed to ask it directly.  Still, she’s not “getting a pass” because she’s a woman.  She has excellent credentials and is certainly qualified to be a supreme court judge.  It’s impossible for her to “get a pass” for any reason, because she’s already qualified.  We don’t expect her to be a goddess or be perfect or agree with us on every single issue.

These people ought to be called the “pro-murder” movement.

Older, that would be “objectively pro-murder”....

Bitter Scribe, we’re all suspicious about her views on abortion, but we would have to be suspicious of any candidate, as we’re not allowed to ask it directly.

Yeah, I know, and why is that, exactly? Associate U.S. justice is an important political office. Why shouldn’t candidates for that office be asked about their views on political issues like abortion? Is it because justices are supposed to be above politics? Bull.

Sorry to get off-topic, but I really don’t see what else there is to be said about Dr. Tiller’s murder. Except I hope that more Americans will now treat “pro-life” rhetoric with the contempt it deserves.

They have to be held to the same standard that they demanded from Obama regarding Bill Ayers—a man who never killed anyone.

I did a recap of right-wing blog reactions late last night and I was surprised how often Bill Ayers came up as a reference point—not in a majority of cases, but in enough that I wondered why he resonated so much for this group of people. I still don’t get it.

“I don’t consider clinic intimidation to be legit protest, and I think our government is too cowardly to protect women from harassment.”

I agree. Some protesters abide by the rules and stand across the street, but their right to gather that near the clinic – and especially with any kind of recording equipment – is competing with the patients’ right to confidential medical treatment. (That sets it apart from any other kind of protest, anywhere for any reason.) And when what the protesters are chanting is so incendiary that it poses a direct and immediate threat to patients’ lives, that isn’t even remotely acceptable “protest” behavior.

(The protesters pose less of a long-term threat to patient safety, however, than do the misidentified “crisis pregnancy centers” that seem to spring up like weeds around a clinic, claiming to offer comparable services, often without the benefit of any medically trained staff or commitment to confidentiality.)

I can only hope this causes the anti-abortion protesters to reexamine their activities, goals, and rhetoric. If their aim is to ‘preserve life’, they can start with social programs that ensure that a) people have access to effective birth control, b) pregnant women get all necessary pre and perinatal care – including D&Cs;to remove any remaining fetal tissues after a miscarriage, as well as therapeutic abortion (especially for ectopic and molar pregnancies, or cases where anencephaly is present, etc.) – without having to break the bank for it, and c) disability rights advocacy for those already born becomes a leg of their platform rather than merely a side issue they play up when it’s convenient.

But of course they won’t do this, because many of them are acting from a sense of entitlement to the bodies of women as a class. If abortion were illegal, AND it never happened in a back alley somewhere, the anti-choicers would merely move on to some other aspect of women’s lives in a bid to exercise greater control. They can barely contain themselves even now.

Murdering people for a failure to comply is not a fgar step from trying to terrorize them into submission in the myriad other ways the anti-abortion movement has adopted.

The weaseling you see from all the pro-dead-women groups is the same kind that you see from the catholic church on gaybashing (the literal kind), and for the same reason. They don’t want to admit that they’re inciting criminal acts.

Paul,
That, and they don’t want to incur any legal liability when one of their members takes the next logical step, i.e. they don’t want to get sued in civil court. I imagine that Operation Rescue’s lawyers have already started racking up billable hours because of this.

was surprised how often Bill Ayers came up as a reference point—not in a majority of cases, but in enough that I wondered why he resonated so much for this group of people. I still don’t get it.

My guess?  Because all of the violent extremists of the past several decades have been from their side of the aisle.  That’s a problem when your whole movement is based on the fear that the eeeeville libruls are out to get you.  To keep justifying that to themselves, they needed one liberal, just one, any one, who, at some point in their life (even if it was forty years ago) did something violent.  Now that they have one, they’ll never let it go.  All of the McVeighs, clinic bombers, doctor shooters - they’re all outweighed by Ayers.

anti-choice organizations so obviously condone violence in a myriad of subtle ways that they have to cover their asses in ways that groups that don’t condone violence do not.

Mandos, the above is your answer.

Forced-birth terrorists called Dr. Tiller a “Mengele”.  Bill O’Reilly compared his work to murders commited by Stalin and the Nazis.  Randall Terry TODAY is saying that it’s good that Tiller is dead and burning in hell, though he claims he’s not happy about how it came about.

When your rhetoric is so far out of bounds and you compare doctors performing legal procedures to mass murderers, when your primary “protests” are to threaten and harass, you create a climate where people think murder is an acceptable solution. 

When you claim someone is a monster murdering babies, and that there’s nothing to be done to stop him legally, you create an environment where someone feels that jail is an acceptable trade-off to save the babies.

Never mind that the babies aborted by Tiller had no chance to live anyway, or only could have lived by killing their mothers.  Those are facts that would puncture the balloon of “mass murderer”.

These people are terrorists.  I know I usually say “let the sun shine on them”, but I’d actually forgotten about how crazy they were the last time we had a pro-choice president.  Under W they thought they were getting their endless GOP majority, their own theocratic SCOTUS, and abortion and contraception would eventually be illegal.

Now they see what a minority they are, and that their chances of changing the laws in a democratic republic are almost gone.

So they’re back to murder.  Cold-blooded, in a church, in front of family and children murder.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I’m not sure I agree with this one.  It has shades of the thought that as soon as someone resorts to terrorism in favour of any cause, that cause is discredited.  This does not follow.

I think Jesse’s talking more about people like the ones in Boston and other American cities who sent money to the Irish Republican Army because they thought they were patriots fighting for a free Ireland.  It took a whole lot of murder and bombings before those people woke up and realized that they were actually ensuring the opposite of what they claimed to want by financing those organizations.

Anyone who sent money to Operation Rescue or other radical “pro-life” groups financed this murder.  Anyone who sent money to less radical ones that support radical ones like Operation Rescue financed this murder.  I don’t see why it’s wrong for us to point out to people that they’re financially supporting terrorists and murderers.

If those who provide necessary medical care are “murderers”, then why wasn’t Tiller armed with a machine gun and ready to take out anybody who even looked like they might kill him?

Funny how silent the gun nuts are about this whole affair - they are usually quick out of the gate to tell us all how it wouldn’t have happened if everybody was packing heat ...

but in enough that I wondered why he resonated so much for this group of people. I still don’t get it.

Projection, I’d imagine.  Anyone who sympathizes with violent terrorists has to convince themselves that liberals are just as bad.

I can only hope this causes the anti-abortion protesters to reexamine their activities, goals, and rhetoric.

From reading their websites, they have decided that this murder—-if it was an anti-choicer, which they are trying to avoid conceding to—-just shows how in the right they are, because pro-choicers are showing that they’re bad people by donating to clinics in Dr. Tiller’s name.  I’m not kidding.  The conclusion is that one of theirs murders someone, pro-choicers react how the deceased would have wanted, and so anti-choicers are super duper especially right and need to keep on as before, but perhaps with more uses of the words “murder” and “genocide” to describe abortion.

Hate speech mainstreamed and endorsed by those in power—public power (media) and political power (both sides have equal merit) <em>incites hate crimes</a.>. Period. Where is the question here?

Oh, right, sorry, I have “logic,” “reason,” and “evidence” on my side. Those useless things.

Witnesses at the Wichita church where Dr. Tiller was shot got a good look at the gunman and the car taking off moment later.

Police stopped that car Sunday afternoon just outside the metro traveling north on I-35 near the Gardner exit. FOX 4 was there and got exclusive video of Roeder in the backseat of a patrol car. Later in the day, Roeder was taken by Wichita Police from the adult detention facility in Gardner.

Wichita Police are also towing the blue Taurus back to Wichita.

Neighbors said they’ve seen a similar car at the house in Merriam. They describe the ongoings at the house as strange. They said it’s a revolving door of men coming and staying there and describe what appear to be religious gatherings.

There were a number of agents and officers at the home for several hours Sunday afternoon. The FBI say the investigation could go on for several days.

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-george-tiller-shot-killed-story-53109,0,1359215.story

Emphasis mine.

And Hunter’s:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/1/737564/-A-Revolving-Door

Terror cell.

This (in my humble opinion) is the best post in the history of this blog. Thank you for saying what needs to be said so well.

“They aren’t protesters, they are specifically here to generate fear and scare people away. They may not kill directly, but they are most emphatically are using fear to cower people into achieving their political ends, to impose their worldview on everyone around them. “

One of the almost universal experiences of those who have shared their stories on I’mNotSorry is being scared that “protestors” would be at the clinic they chose.  It’s my belief many were more scared of that than the actual abortion.  So terrorists, absolutely.  You don’t have to blow up a building to scare the shit out of someone, and the fact that these assholes, like your average bully, inevitably zero in on what they correctly perceive as a good target—a terrified teenage girl, a weeping woman ... what gutless, filthy cowards.  I would love to escort again but don’t trust myself to keep my emotions in check.  Thank you to those who do it.  You do more good than you will ever know.