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NYT: ‘For South, a Waning Hold on National Politics’

There’s an interesting piece in the NYT by Adam Nossiter that makes some apt observations about what the results of the election mean for Republicans and the South.

By voting so emphatically for Senator John McCain over Mr. Obama - supporting him in some areas in even greater numbers than they did President Bush - voters from Texas to South Carolina and Kentucky may have marginalized their region for some time to come, political experts say.

The region’s absence from Mr. Obama’s winning formula means it “is becoming distinctly less important,” said Wayne Parent, a political scientist at Louisiana State University. “The South has moved from being the center of the political universe to being an outside player in presidential politics.”

One reason for that is that the South is no longer a solid voting bloc. Along the Atlantic Coast, parts of the “suburban South,” notably Virginia and North Carolina, made history last week in breaking from their Confederate past and supporting Mr. Obama. Those states have experienced an influx of better educated and more prosperous voters in recent years, pointing them in a different political direction than states farther west, like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi, and Appalachian sections of Kentucky and Tennessee.

The fact of the matter is that Barack Obama received less of the white vote in the South than either John Kerry or Al Gore. And while the black turnout was record breaking in the deep South, it couldn’t overcome the white votes for McCain in those states.

It’s telling that a third of the Southern white vote in 2008 went to John McCain, and Obama only won 44 out of 410 counties in the Appalachian belt—people are stubbornly hanging on to their racial biases in these areas, so much so that they would vote against their interests no matter what, and the GOP has now become a regional party, dependent on the under-educated, low-information voter who have little exposure to diversity. After all, look at some of these statements:

One white woman said she feared that blacks would now become more “aggressive,” while another volunteered that she was bothered by the idea of a black man “over me” in the White House.

...“I am concerned,” Gail McDaniel, who owns a cosmetics business, said in the parking lot of the Shop and Save. “The abortion thing bothers me. Same-sex marriage.”

“I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks,” she added. “From where I’m from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive.”

More below the fold.

I sit here right in NC and all along I've been saying that this time it would be different - we were going to deliver for Obama. Boy was I laughed at by people outside this state. Our state, due to regional bias and having sent Jesse Helms to the Senate over and over, was cast as the cultural and educational equivalent of Alabama, usually by progressives outside of my state who were very dismissive.
 
I saw the voter registration drives here, I saw the early voter turnout. Hell, I drove every day down the streets and highways of our metropolitan areas (the Triangle) and saw Obama signs everywhere; the McCain/Palin bumper stickers were MIA in any number until the week before the election. For the first time we have more people living in the cities and suburbs than in the rural very Red areas of the state.
 
But our victory was slim, and, granted, a point the naysayers were right in one respect - the bigot backwards residents of my state made themselves visible—they turned out in numbers to gawk at Palin, and their desperation was evident by the tire slashings of attendees at an Obama rally, the kicking of a Greensboro reporter to the ground at a Palin rally, a coffin at a polling station with an Obama sticker on it, and a bear cub killed and left on a Western NC college with Obama signs stapled to its head. This was the old South going down and trying to beat off change. And they lost. However, to continue remaining Blue - since the victory was so small—we need the spotlight on that change, not the hillbilly rep delivered ad nauseum by purported political allies. Be mindful of who did turn out, and what coalitions need to continue to be cultivated.

The surprise for me was the welcome crushing defeat of Elizabeth Dole. That "Godless" ad was so over the top that newspapers all across the state, even small town ones, blasted her. Hagan's faith-based response rankled many here, but only the Durham Herald Sun was willing to really call it out for what it was.
 

A person's faith is a deeply personal matter, and every piece of evidence from Hagan's personal life leads one to believe her faith is genuine. The Dole ad clearly suggests otherwise, and, as such, is purposefully misleading and insulting. And Hagan is right that it seems a last-ditch, desperate effort by an incumbent who fears she is about to lose…Dole's ad is offensive on two counts—it misrepresents Hagan's beliefs and insults anyone whose beliefs are not seen as mainstream.


The bottom line is that Dole "misunderestimated" the new South—but then again, she doesn't really live here, she's holed up in the Watergate. No wonder she had Beltway beliefs about her own state.

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Posted by Pam Spaulding on 10:14 PM • (60) Comments

Georgia will be the new NC in 2012, and the whole east coast (SC excepted) will be blue.

Atlantic South>Inner South in EVs, so I’m all for it.

Comment #1: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  10:23 PM

I wish I could say something about SC but I’m not sure what its Raleigh/Charlotte/NoVA/Atlanta would be.

Comment #2: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  10:25 PM

“From where I’m from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive.”

If that means that African-Americans will be able to take less shit from white people, then good. It’s about damn time southern whites woke the hell up—and I say this as a southern white. They make me ashamed most of the time.

Comment #3: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  11/11  at  10:27 PM

One day even South Carolina may come around.  I live in the 1st District, Charleston.  We’re viewed by much of the knuckle-dragging, mid-state denizens as being part of a different state.  The feeling is often mutual…

Hope springs eternal, though.  Obama drew a huge crowd at the College of Charleston during the primaries filled with middle-aged white women, blacks, students, professionals of all hues…it was very exciting to behold.  I have a dream…

Comment #4: serge  on  11/11  at  10:44 PM

“I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks,” she added.

Huh?  Outbreaks of what?  Is race now contagious?

Comment #5: Loneoak  on  11/11  at  11:00 PM

Serge -

I live in the same district! Charleston county, at least, is changing. The Columbia area is backwards and terrible, but the real horrorshow is Upstate, esp. the Greenville area. Not for nothing did the whackjobs of Christian exodus settle on that spot.

But in Chucktown and environs, there’s a lot more transplanted Yankee professionals like me, and progressive southerners—and it was a very diverse place to start with. It’s gotten more so in the six years since my wife and I arrived. It’s got a very long way to go, but it’s nice is to see it begin to return to its colonial-era roots as a cosmopolitan port city… minus the slavery and racism. This is the only place to live in SC if you have half a brain and a little heart.

Comment #6: wapsie  on  11/11  at  11:07 PM

In related news, at the top of http://ideas.rebuildtheparty.com/ today is this:

3272 votes

Truck Nutz for all!

Give all Red Blooded Americans a pair of Truck Nuts for their F150’s!
580 comments | by Hotlaska | created about 7 hours ago

This is their best idea yet!

Comment #7: Grammar RWA  on  11/11  at  11:10 PM

Damn Grammar RWA you nearly ended up owing me a new keyboard because of that post you found!

Comment #8: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  11:13 PM

It’s not just that those Appalachian counties are red…that’s pretty much the only part of the country that voted more strongly Republican in 2008 than in 2004.  If you look at the NYT electoral map (http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html and choose Voting Shifts), the counties that were over 10% more Republican this year than in 2004 are in Louisiana (the Katrina effect) and an arc from southeastern Oklahoma to West Virginia.  I can’t think of a reason why people in these areas who did *not* vote for Bush *did* vote for McCain, or put another way, why those who voted for Kerry did not vote for Obama…unless this can be interpreted as a handy-dandy map of racism in the U.S.

Comment #9: Storm at Sea  on  11/11  at  11:18 PM

Man, whats up with TN, OK, and AR on that map? I mean I’m not expecting them to vote Democrat, but MORE Republican than 2004? Really? Even Idaho and Utah managed to be less Republican!

Comment #10: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  11:25 PM

It’s kind of fascinating how the red states are slowly being squeezed from both sides now that Nevada and Florida went blue.  Arizona could probably go blue next time, but there was no way the local boy wouldn’t win this year.

Comment #11: Mnemosyne  on  11/11  at  11:36 PM

Mnemosyne—

The map also looks a hell of a lot better with Indiana blue along with the rest of the Great Lakes area.

West Coast+Great Lakes+East Coast=electoral lock.

Comment #12: Ben D.  on  11/11  at  11:38 PM

Man, whats up with TN, OK, and AR on that map? I mean I’m not expecting them to vote Democrat, but MORE Republican than 2004?

Davidson County (Nashville) was more Democratic than in 2004 (60-40 Obama, 55-45 Kerry, IIRC) and I’m sure Memphis swung even further blue, but yeah, Tennessee mostly sucks.  East TN’s pretty & there’s food and stuff, but I don’t recommend more than superficial interactions with the locals.

Comment #13: latts  on  11/12  at  12:08 AM

Racism is the likeliest explanation for Appalachia’s increase in Republican votes, but it could also have to do with military service. There are a large proportions of veterans there, I believe, and they might have preferred Kerry to Bush and McCain to Obama for that reason alone.

Comment #14: bad Jim  on  11/12  at  12:13 AM

>Truck Nutz for all!
i’m detecting the presence of me on that site, honestly

half of the suggestions are RONPAUL and the other half are obvious jokes

Comment #15: Anon  on  11/12  at  12:18 AM

Yeah, one day the right-wing will figure out the dangers inherent in the intertubes, but until then, we’ll have plenty to blog about.

Comment #16: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  11/12  at  12:25 AM

East TN’s pretty & there’s food and stuff, but I don’t recommend more than superficial interactions with the locals.

Hey, I grew up in East Tennessee….

... yeah, outside the Knoxville-Oak Ridge area you don’t see many “Obama/Biden” bumper stickers.

Comment #17: Maureen  on  11/12  at  12:26 AM

Even Idaho and Utah managed to be less Republican!

That’s one reservation I have about that map - it’s not exactly misleading, but easy to read more into than is there. I mean, it would be hard for Utah and Idaho to become more Redoublechin.

Comment #18: Xecky Gilchrist  on  11/12  at  12:31 AM

Yeah but Utah was a lot less Republican than last time (though still solidly so, since it was starting from a big base). My best guess is the Mormons are mad Mittens didn’t get the nod and stayed home.

Comment #19: Ben D.  on  11/12  at  12:48 AM

It is hard to believe that TN elected Al Gore.

Comment #20: Ben D.  on  11/12  at  12:50 AM

and the GOP has now become a regional party, dependent on the under-educated, low-information voter who have little exposure to diversity.

I suspect the GOP have known this for a while, now… methinks this is the madness behind their “kill public education and dumb down the rest” method.

Comment #21: Mau de Katt  on  11/12  at  01:05 AM

Gore didn’t carry Tennessee in 2000, but Clinton did - I think - and I’m pretty sure he took Arkansas, too. Part of it is Southerners voting for Southern candidates, otherwise known as “real Americans” or “people like me.”

It’s wonderful that we elected an African-American, incredible that he had such a difficult name, but pretty damned gratifying that we Democrats won without another Southern governor at the top of the ticket.

Comment #22: bad Jim  on  11/12  at  02:06 AM

There are parts of the Appalachian South and Mid-Atlantic that the twentieth century simply passed by. As Faulkner put it, in some places, “the past isn’t dead—it isn’t even past.” Why on earth the political and social opinions of the people in this part of the country still command any regard or respect is simply beyond me. Not that there aren’t good people in parts of rural Appalachia who have real interests and needs (jobs, health care, etc.)—but the sooner the peculiar religious fundamentalism, xenophobia and racism of that part of America is put to rest once and for all, the better off our politics and our country will be.

Comment #23: jonas  on  11/12  at  02:55 AM

‘Cuz they got votes, just like sane people.

Comment #24: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  11/12  at  03:17 AM

The bear in Cullowhee may have just been frat idiots. But for what it’s worth, Jackson County (home of WCU) went for Obama as did Watauga (Boone / ASU), and Buncombe (Asheville) was a lock.

Of course, the paradox about Deep Appalachia and race is that there just aren’t that many black people living there. We’re talking about the pockets of the south who fought on the Union side, because the land was too poor for plantations. In that sense, jonas is right: when you head far out to what I sometimes call ‘Eric Rudolph country’, you hit a way of living that isn’t even Faulkner. It’s often desperately poor and white and churchy, and the people do cling to guns and God because they’re the still points in their world.

Comment #25: pseudonymous in nc  on  11/12  at  03:29 AM

I am sorry, but if you stand out in front of the Shop N Save for long enough, you’ll find some high-school dropout who sells cosmetics out of her car and will make a stupid comment.  It doesn’t prove anything. Obama got more white votes than Gore or Kerry, and he got a majority of whites under 30. 

If Virginia and North Carolina are now swing states, then the Republicans need to figure out a way to get blue states back into contention, and that means realigning the Republican party behind more popular, more moderate figures.  There’s going to be a dustup on the right between the Arnold Republicans and the Sarah Republicans, and, while a victory for Arnold will ultimately improve the Republicans’ political fortunes, it will also result in quicker action on issues like climate change, with less obstruction. 

I also hope that Obama remembers that he won by the grace of people in Ohio and North Carolina and Virgina who voted for Bush in 2004, and that he governs to the middle.

Comment #26: mitchforth  on  11/12  at  03:36 AM

is it wrong for me to hope that this DOES make black people (or, at least my boyfriend) “more agressive”???
i mean, the older black people i know are all about voting, and social work, and community interaction and actually CHANGING things by going out and WORKING to CHANGE them.

i love my guy dearly, i do. this is the FIRST TIME IN HIS LIFE THAT HE VOTING. he’s almost 30. and the only reason that he voted is i told him i would break up with him if he didn’t - not that i really would have, and i don’t think he believed me, but it made him realize how important it was that he vote this time.

maybe i am generalizing based on the small sample of black people that i know well enough to discuss politics with, but from HERE (in columbus ohio, at age 31) most my age or younger don’t care. and, frankly, however much i mark “Native American” on everything, i look white and here in CBus us injuns are considered white anyway, and so whenever try to get more enthusiams i get blown off.

i’m sorry, rambling. the point was that i HOPE and HOPEHOPEHOPE that Obama being at 1600 will “make blacks more agressive” - or rather, this it will inspire the younger generations to work harder at changing everything that needs to be changed.

Comment #27: denelian  on  11/12  at  05:02 AM

mitchforth:

I also hope that Obama remembers that he won by the grace of people in Ohio and North Carolina and Virgina who voted for Bush in 2004, and that he governs to the middle.

Nope. Obama owes nothing to any particular selection of states. He also got Iowa, Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada. Perhaps everyone who voted for him thought McCain and Palin were shameless liars, but otherwise they must have thought they were voting for a socialist.

Comment #28: bad Jim  on  11/12  at  05:32 AM

outside the Knoxville-Oak Ridge area you don’t see many “Obama/Biden” bumper stickers.

McCain won both those counties, too, as well as Hamilton/Chattanooga.  Obama only won five TN counties—the two larger cities’, one on the Plateau, and a couple near Memphis.  An old friend lives in Oak Ridge with her doctor husband, but she was always an affluent suburban-churchy Republican anyway; she long ago gave up on discussing politics with me.

Hey, I grew up in Mississippi, and not in one of the blue areas (except for my middle school years in Jackson) on the west side of the state, either.  East TN’s awesome compared to MS, where I only really go for funerals nowadays.

Comment #29: latts  on  11/12  at  06:17 AM

I know it’s not the South, but here in Texas the mood was muted right after the election, but the hatred has boiled to the top again. No longer a safe subject to bring up. It IS very Clintonesque, with things as simple as the feelgood stories about him getting a dog for his kids bringing out the most ridiculous rants about how he is simultaneously trying to appear normal(but he’s not!) and trying to stick out from the crowd(he’s already DIFFERENT!). Add the near universal racism of this area and every time I see a headline or hear the name Obama I tense up and wait for some halfwit to spout off.

Comment #30: Kerlyssa  on  11/12  at  07:15 AM

I moved to east TN from Canada three years ago, but because I don’t know very many people (not that great at making friends in the real world), I still haven’t got much of a feel for it. It WAS hugely McCain-Palin, if yard signs were anything to go by, but I did see a few Obama/Biden signs, stickers and voters. The first argument I ever had with my aunt & uncle, whom I lived with when I first came down here, was over politics. (I was still brokenhearted over Kerry; they had W stickers on their cars. It was uncomfortable, shall we say.)

I have met some pretty awesome liberal people here, though—the few that there are have to be extra-cool, I think. And they tend to go to Asheville in NC or down to the bigger cities every so often, to hang out with more liberal folks if they can.

I am utterly thrilled that I spent a few hours on election day helping out the Obama campaign over the state line—I can now say that I did a tiny part to help turn Virginia blue. It’s pretty cool. :D

Comment #31: Nenya  on  11/12  at  09:00 AM

Oh yeah, and there is only about 3% of the population here who are black. Our small Obama canvassing team in my town was mostly black people, working out of a church down the street. The guy who ran it told me Obama was going to win, back when I was afraid to believe it. I had to email him after, and tell him he’d been right all along. JOY!

Comment #32: Nenya  on  11/12  at  09:03 AM

Racism remains alive and well outside the traditional Old South. While providing security for the Vietnam Moving Wall memorial that was on display in Michigan this past July, I heard a number of racist comments from fellow Vietnam veterans. It’s especially heartbreaking when you realize that over 7,300 of the more than 58,000 names on the Wall are Black Americans. Young black men who gave their lives for a country in which their birth-right as second-class status limited both their opportunities and quality of life. And the number of gay Americans etched on that Wall will likely never be known.

While questioning my ability to fight for a country that illegally viewed those like me as less equal, I noticed signs instructing visitors that food, drink, and smoking while visiting the Wall were forbidden out of respect for those who died. That no racist or sexist comments should be added to these basic prohibitions says America is still far removed from the promise of full equality for all its citizens. Such lost opportunity is too disheartening to contemplate.

Comment #33: BobbyV  on  11/12  at  10:04 AM

Racism is the likeliest explanation for Appalachia’s increase in Republican votes, but it could also have to do with military service. There are a large proportions of veterans there, I believe, and they might have preferred Kerry to Bush and McCain to Obama for that reason alone.

That may be, but if you look at a map of Georgia (which is not the area you’re talking about in all parts, I realize) the military areas went blue, at least the areas around Fort Benning did (I have family there and seeing that on the map stuck out to me).

Comment #34: annejumps  on  11/12  at  10:10 AM

“I also hope that Obama remembers that he won by the grace of people in Ohio and North Carolina and Virgina who voted for Bush in 2004, and that he governs to the middle.”

Wow!  mitchforth, you really do live in an alternate reality don’t you.

Ohio: 20 EV
North Carolina: 15 EV
Virginia: 13 EV

Total from those states: 48 EV

California: 55 EV

Yeah, I can really see how Ohio, North Carolina, and Virginia outweigh California (for example) in the Electoral College, and how Obama owes his 365 EV (v McCain’s 162 EV) to those states alone, therefore requiring Obama to be a moderate Republican instead of an ultra-radical Marxist.

Does the Koolaid still taste good?...

Comment #35: MikeEss  on  11/12  at  10:32 AM

Mike:

For better or worse Obama will be governing from the center. The wingnuts just don’t recognize that universal health coverage, an end to the occupation of iraq and of torture and pervasive surveillance are the center, or maybe even a little to the right of it.

If you wanted someone governing from the left, you’d need President Sanders and a few hundred clones of him in congress.

Comment #36: paul  on  11/12  at  11:40 AM

Slightly tangential, but still possibility interesting:  check out Christopher Caldwell’s article in the June 1998 issue of The Atlantic Monthly, “The Southern Captivity of the GOP” in which he argues that the Republicans were marginalizing themselves by rooting themselves too strongly the (real and perceived) folkways of the (white) American South.

Comment #37: Linnaeus  on  11/12  at  11:57 AM

If this election is just the first chapter of the south becoming more irrelevant than I would consider that a double victory.  It’s about the rest of the country stopped being led around by a a group of empty-headed rednecks.  My only other hope is that the insane elements of the rethug contiunue to hold the reins and we see them further pushed aside in 2010.

Eventually, we’ll be able to retitle the republican the asshole party and then the rest of us can get down to sorting out the issues amongst the rational portion of the electorate.

Oh, and more ronpaul!

Hilarious.

Comment #38: ice weasel  on  11/12  at  12:10 PM

“I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks,” she added.

Huh?  Outbreaks of what?  Is race now contagious?

That must have been a misquote.  I’m sure Ms. McDaniel said that “there are going to be break-outs among blacks.”  Remember, she sells cosmetics?  She must know her skin-care regimes, and how powerful emotional experiences can result in hives.

I mean, the only other possible explanation is that she’s an idiot.

Comment #39: cminus, dark lord of castle nutella  on  11/12  at  12:24 PM

That may be, but if you look at a map of Georgia (which is not the area you’re talking about in all parts, I realize) the military areas went blue, at least the areas around Fort Benning did (I have family there and seeing that on the map stuck out to me).

Not that it, necessarily, invalidates your point, but the results for the Columbus metro area were never, ever in doubt due, primarily, to the demographics of the area. Almost 50% of the population in Muscogee, Chatahoochie and Stewart counties is black.

Comment #40: Sarcastro  on  11/12  at  12:24 PM

One other aspect of Obama losing worse in Tennessee and Arkansas is that he never campaigned there.  I remember Nate Silver writing during the primaries that Obama drastically improved his performance in states where he campaigned.  Unlike McCain or Hillary, he had to prove himself to voters in person and through a coordinated campaign.

He never even tried in Arkansas, and I don’t think he tried much in Tennessee.  If I recall correctly, Arkansas was the only state without a field office. 

It was the smart thing to do, as he didn’t need and wasn’t likely to win those states.  But it might explain why he lost so badly there.

Comment #41: Hawes  on  11/12  at  12:30 PM

Mike,

Obviously, both parties have the states that belong in their column.  Republicans have not recently had much of a foothold in CA.  Democrats don’t have much luck in Texas.  Obviously, the local Republicans and Democrats have constituencies and win elections, especially for office within the state (as opposed to Senate or Presidential elections) but a successful New York or California Republican may well be to the left of a successful Texas Democrat on many issues.

Schwarzenegger, for example is one of the most outspoken advocates for action in government on climate change (though he is a reformed Hummer driver, ironically).

The importance of Ohio and Florida is that they’re fairly big gets, and they’re up for grabs.  Both parties’ winning strategies center on these states.

The big new development is that Obama won not only by taking the swing states that Bush beat Kerry in; he also took some states that were, until recently, considered reliably red.  VA and NC are absolutely game changers, and now that they are in play, Republicans cannot win the presidency by running right anymore.

Comment #42: mitchforth  on  11/12  at  12:43 PM

“For better or worse Obama will be governing from the center. The wingnuts just don’t recognize that universal health coverage, an end to the occupation of iraq and of torture and pervasive surveillance are the center, or maybe even a little to the right of it.”

Oh, I realize that.  In fact that was one of the things that really bugged me about the “OMG Obama is a Marxist!” talking point.  In the overall span of history, Obama, like Clinton, will be seen as the equivalent of a moderate Republican. 

Of course, the calibration of wingnut’s political categorization is currently so far out of whack they won’t see this, but it’s true nevertheless…

Comment #43: MikeEss  on  11/12  at  12:51 PM

The big new development is that Obama won not only by taking the swing states that Bush beat Kerry in; he also took some states that were, until recently, considered reliably red.

I hope that Obama shows more of that same audacity, and “beyond-the-call-ness” in his economic, foreign and health policies. I think this country is going to need it.

Comment #44: atheist  on  11/12  at  12:53 PM

Of course, the calibration of wingnut’s political categorization is currently so far out of whack they won’t see this, but it’s true nevertheless…

MikeEss on 11/12

So many of the conservative movement (a.k.a. the Wingnuts) seem to have a case of political nearsightedness, or something like that.

I’m a leftist, but I can distinguish between Socialists/Leftists, Liberals, Greens, & Centrists on my side, and between Neocons, Paleocons, Moderate Conservatives, Bircherites & out-and-out Fascists on their side. And I can appreciate that there are plenty of people who don’t exactly fit into any of these groups, but have their own philosophies. But conservative movementarians often seem to view anyone to their left as being a scary, uniform wall of “hard leftists”. They may be just exaggerating to make a point, but it’s a bit odd. (And how they can believe that, but at the same time believe that the nation is “center-right”, is just another puzzler.)

Comment #45: atheist  on  11/12  at  01:07 PM

bad Jim:
Racism is the likeliest explanation for Appalachia’s increase in Republican votes, but it could also have to do with military service. There are a large proportions of veterans there, I believe, and they might have preferred Kerry to Bush and McCain to Obama for that reason alone.

Obama also won the Hampton Roads area of Virginia, which has a high proportion of active-duty and veterans, and Navy personnel in particular, who you would think would be even more pro-McCain. The idea that military voters were strongly pro-Republican was always more myth than reality, and especially in this election.

Comment #46: Redshift  on  11/12  at  02:09 PM

Man, whats up with TN, OK, and AR on that map? I mean I’m not expecting them to vote Democrat, but MORE Republican than 2004? Really? Even Idaho and Utah managed to be less Republican!

I think what your seeing is the “circle the wagons” or “fortress” mentality.  They are facing their own political extinction and they know it.  They are in the last ditch.

Georgia is havable as is South Carolina.  Really, sincerely.  Maybe even (ssssh) Texas.  Maybe even especially Texas.  The demographic shift in Utah will cause it to collapse as a red state in about 10 years.

Actually, I think we have red states, blue states and purple states.  Virginia, Florida, North Carolina, Indiana, Ohio, and Missouri will be volatile for some time.

Comment #47: Magis  on  11/12  at  02:28 PM

The demographic shift in Utah will cause it to collapse as a red state in about 10 years.

Can you elaborate on this, Magis? Utah did vote more for Obama than it did for Kerry, but it was someting like 36% as opposed to 22%.

Comment #48: Norsecats  on  11/12  at  03:20 PM

I’m a leftist, but I can distinguish between Socialists/Leftists, Liberals, Greens, & Centrists on my side, and between Neocons, Paleocons, Moderate Conservatives, Bircherites & out-and-out Fascists on their side. And I can appreciate that there are plenty of people who don’t exactly fit into any of these groups, but have their own philosophies. But conservative movementarians often seem to view anyone to their left as being a scary, uniform wall of “hard leftists”. They may be just exaggerating to make a point, but it’s a bit odd. (And how they can believe that, but at the same time believe that the nation is “center-right”, is just another puzzler.)

This tendency swings like a pendulum.  When a party is out of power and angry at the other party, the base wants to win very badly, and will accept concessions on key issues in order to build an electoral majority.  This enables their presidential nominee to run to the middle.

When a party has been in power, the base frequently gets angry about compromises and the fact that the power of the presidency has not been leveraged to the benefit various items that are important to the agenda of the base.

Sometimes, this rebellion comes in the form of a spoiler candidate.  George H.W. Bush faced mass economic conservative defection to Ross Perot in 1992, which brought in Clinton.  Al Gore faced mass liberal defection to Ralph Nader in 2000, which paved the way for W. 

This year, there was no spoiler candidate, but there was also no conservative consensus on McCain, and there was a very real danger that social conservatives would not show up on election day, because McCain was not perceived as furthering their important issues.  McCain was forced right in his general election campaign, with his Palin pick most visibly, but also the tone and timbre of his campaign which was more a pitch to people who he should have been able to count on in the first place.

As a result, Obama ate McCain’s lunch in the swing states.  In eight years, people like that will probably be hungry enough to fall in line behind a centrist Republican candidate, without making him shoot himself in the foot.

Comment #49: mitchforth  on  11/12  at  03:52 PM

Mitchforth:

Sure, I agree that there are tactical reasons for it this year. And you’re right, many of them will probably overcome this tendency if necessary.

However, I feel like this has been going on longer than this year. I don’t think this is the first time I have noticed this about right wingers. It seems like an ongoing type of thing. I realize that there are instances of left wingers acting similarly, like with 60s hippies supposedly calling conservatives fascists. But it seems like many right wingers, at least, are prone to this mindset.

Comment #50: atheist  on  11/12  at  05:06 PM

I’m a leftist, but I can distinguish between Socialists/Leftists, Liberals, Greens, & Centrists on my side, and between Neocons, Paleocons, Moderate Conservatives, Bircherites & out-and-out Fascists on their side. And I can appreciate that there are plenty of people who don’t exactly fit into any of these groups, but have their own philosophies.

That is because left-leaning parties tend to be true coalitions, while right-leaning parties are movements with their own orthodoxy. Step outside that orthodoxy, and you’re ex-communicated (see: Kathleen Parker, et al).

Comment #51: Ben D.  on  11/12  at  05:39 PM

This is the only place to live in SC if you have half a brain and a little heart.

If only the Post and Courier would wake up from its Jim Crow stupor.

Comment #52: geor3ge  on  11/12  at  06:40 PM

Check out the red-blue pattern of Congressional District results on the Google tool (also up at TPM) and the racial patterns become much more clear.  It’s about urban-rural and urbane-rustic.  Look at all the blue CDs that include major cities in the south!  Look at the blue in Utah and Arizona!  Then go to the county level and you find blue river ports (almost the entire Mississippi and Ohio valleys), tourist areas (formerly Republican central Florida!), state capitals and many where the county seat is a city over 40k.  Apparently a multi-plex and several chain restaurants means you’ve got some good-old American civilization with a Democrat in Congress and “family-values” liberals running City Hall.

Comment #53: W Action  on  11/12  at  06:54 PM

I have a theory about what’s going on in the South, politically speaking. I’ve posted about it here, but here’s the short version:

The Highland Southern/“Scotch-Irish” culture has played kingmaker for the last 80 years—being part of every president’s winning coalition since 1932—and finally developed a stranglehold on U.S. political culture in general and the Republican Party in particular. George W. Bush, who embraces and exemplifies this culture as if he were born and bred in it (which, of course, he wasn’t), has remade the face of America in this image: physical courage valued above moral courage, obsession with loyalty, hypersensitivity to insult, contempt for education and erudition, suspicion of all things foreign, evangelical fundamentalist Christianity, and freedom defined as being left alone to do whatever the hell you want.

In contrast, the Democrats produced a candidate who’s the antithesis of this culture: hopeful rather than fatalistic, conciliatory rather than belligerent, highly educated and articulate, conspicuously “other” by nearly every measure, who seeks your trust and gives you his automatically, who uses spirituality as a personal guide rather than a club to bash others with, and who embraces freedom defined as freedom of conscience, not freedom from responsibility.

The Highland South, and the descendants of Highland Southerners wherever they’ve migrated (such as Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas), voted for another guy who talks and acts like them. And the rest of the country said, “NO GODDAMN WAY. GIVE US THE OTHER GUY.”

Highland Southern culture and values have been rejected on a national scale. Even the Coastal South has expressed its reservations with the status quo.

Comment #54: Geenius at Wrok  on  11/12  at  07:12 PM

Kerlyssa—Whoa! Watch it when you generalize about the sentiment in Texas!

Most of the commenters—hell, most Americans—don’t realize that it’s bigger than France!

What region are you in? I can guarantee that where I grew up, El Paso, the mood wasn’t “muted right after the election,” and there’s no way that “the hatred has boiled to the top again.”

And my time in Austin reassures me that there’s no way that the election is “no longer a safe subject to bring up.”

I know Texas has its problems, but it’s fortunately not monolithic.

Comment #55: Chris  on  11/12  at  07:19 PM

The coastal south and highland south have hated eachother since colonial times. The only thing that brought them together was racism, and that is ending.

Comment #56: Ben D.  on  11/12  at  07:24 PM

Well, of course… it only seems so natural.  I mean if you voted against Obama, then logic dictates that you have to be racist.  I mean it sure couldn’t be because you disagreed with his policies… And lets remember, that those pesky red states like Oklahoma (in which all 77 counties voted RED) are so hung up on that worn out old theory of personal responsibility.  I mean really, Personal Responsibility?  We all know that if it isn’t the governments fault and responsibility to fix, why then its definately the Republicans!

I come here to get a laugh… I’ve yet to be let down.

Comment #57: Khamron  on  11/12  at  07:25 PM

One thing that happened in TN is that, 50 state strategy or no, Obama didn’t make much of an effort here. Apparently Gov. Bredesen waved him off, saying it was a waste of time. In terms of picking up EVs it almost certainly was. The demographics here don’t really open up opportunities the way they have in NC and GA. But I think we could have done better to develop the party here if there had been more of an effort from national Democrats. TN played only a modest part in the primaries and none in the national. Bob Tuke, our Senate candidate, was a man in the wilderness - if he had any TV ads, I missed them. We wound up with the Republicans picking up a slim lead in the State House. They already have the Senate by a vote or two, and Bredesen won’t be governor in two years. Without some real effort, we’ll have an all Republican government in 2012, which as a citizen and a state employee thrills me not at all. I think we need a really stellar candidate for Governor and some significant help from the national party. I’m afraid we’re going to get Harold Ford and a heartfelt “Good luck!”

Comment #58: Theron  on  11/12  at  07:29 PM

I also hope that Obama remembers that he won by the grace of people in Ohio and North Carolina and Virgina who voted for Bush in 2004, and that he governs to the middle.

If you remove Ohio, North Carolina, and Virginia from the Obama column, he still wins by 46 electoral votes.

Comment #59: lucidity  on  11/12  at  08:21 PM

Look at the blue in Utah and Arizona!

I’m too lazy to look into it, but glancing at the map made it look like much of the blue was in the areas where the Pima and Navajo live.

Comment #60: Mnemosyne  on  11/12  at  08:39 PM
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