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Next entry: The War on Joy Previous entry: Gauging the sincerity of wingnuts

Objectivism lived

There’s an excellent essay up at Salon from a woman who had the misfortune to be raised by an Ayn Rand-worshiper.  While she fell for the Randian blather initially, like kids do, it wasn’t hard for her to see the ugly truth, which is that Objectivism is simply selfish narcissism given a pseudo-intellectual justification.  Unsurprisingly, her father was a control freak who ran off one wife, and surprise surprise, pulled the MRA move of trying to get out of child support while playing the victim the whole time.  (For Galtian masters of the universe, Rand fans really do love playing the helpless victim of having to live up to your responsibilities.)  After all, child-rearing makes no real sense in the selfishness-is-good mentality, at least not for men, who were always exalted over women in the Objectivist worldview.  (Someone has to do the shit work, and since it’s going to be done for free under duress in a libertarian paradise, it’s going to be predominantly foisted on women.)  I always joke that MRAs mainly object to child support because they don’t believe you should write checks to women who aren’t providing orgasms in return, but there’s definitely truth to it.  Fundamentally, there’s a belief underneath all this that men are only obliged to live up to their responsibilities to their children if they’re getting something in return; MRAS, rooting themselves so often in libertarian arguments, see child-rearing as transactional.  And while there’s an obsession with sperm-stealing to justify this, most MRAs are like the father in this story—-they wanted to be married and have kids, and only reject taking responsibility for child-rearing after things don’t work out the way they hoped, usually for reasons that are their own damn fault.

This is what happens when you apply Objectivism to an already toxic stew of MRA-style entitlement and selfishness.

The answer to my question came on an autumn weekend during my sophomore year in high school. I was hosting a Harry Potter-themed float party in our driveway, a normal ritual to prepare decorations for my high school quad the week of homecoming. As I was painting a cardboard owl, my father asked me to come inside the house. He and his new wife sat me down at the dinner table with grave faces.

“We were wondering if you would petition to be emancipated,” he said in his lawyer voice.

“What does that mean?” I asked, picking at the mauve paint on my hands. I later discovered that for most kids, declaring emancipation is an extreme measure—something you do if your parents are crack addicts or deadbeats.

“You would need to become financially independent,” he said. “You could work for me at my law firm and pay rent to live here.”

This was my moment of truth as an objectivist. If I believed in the glory of the individual, I would’ve signed the petition papers then and there. But as much as Rand’s novels had taught me to believe in meritocracy, they had not prepared me to go it alone financially and emotionally. I began to cry and refused.

Hardcore objectivists often criticize liberals for basing decisions on emotion, rather than reason. My father saw our family politics no differently. In his mind, it was reasonable to ask that I emancipate myself and work for a living. To me, it felt like he was asking me to sacrifice my childhood so he didn’t have to pay child support. To me, it felt like abandonment.

Actually, it was abandonment.  At the end of the day,  a purely transactional view of human relationships just doesn’t work.  Objectivists, as she said, fancy themselves as purely logical, but they’re not.  It’s a philosophy rooted completely in emotion with no empiricism or rationality to it.  It’s strictly due to a childish desire to kick and scream and have your needs met without having to contribute anything to anyone else.  It’s about closing your eyes to the demonstrable fact that humans are pack animals and interconnected with each other, because you’re so narcissistic that you want to believe that you fly alone.  And it’s often about situations like this, where the libertarian wants an excuse to avoid basic grown-up responsibilities like taking care of your minor children or paying your taxes. 

What’s alarming is that this kind of narcissism is spreading like wildfire amongst conservatives.  Now we’re in a situation like Atrios describes:

Compassionate conservatism was always bullshit, but it reflected a time when people felt the need to be somewhat convinced that they gave a shit, that supporting cuts in vital social programs wouldn’t really cause mass suffering because THOUSAND POINTS OF LIGHT. People were still assholes, but they weren’t entirely comfortable embracing that.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 10:06 AM • (64) Comments

argh.  I’m not even sure Rand herself would have advocated abandoning minor children.  it’s been a long while since I’ve read any of her books (due to my tossing them in the trash once I realized how screwed up her philosophy actually was), but I read enough of her back in my youth (including some of her nonfiction (!) works) to seem to recall that several of her central characters had inherited their wealth.  I mean, wasn’t Dagny Taggart a rail empire heiress?  Sure, she made her empire bigger and better, but she didn’t exactly start from scratch, right?

Also, given Rand’s “philosophy”, the entire concept of a Rand “acolyte” seems hypocritical. I always wanted to ask the people who ran her foundation/society/whatever how they could square the fact that Rand thought anyone who made a living off of the work of another was basically a parasite, while they essentially make a living off of Rand’s work…

Comment #1: sam  on  04/05  at  10:50 AM

The conservative increased acceptance of selfishness has to do with wanting to check out of a society in which women have power and black people can be President.  It’s all one thing—no obligations without privilege.

Comment #2: Punditus Maximus  on  04/05  at  11:01 AM

I’d pay good money for a Salon-like website that had successfully eliminated the words “My” and “I” from its articles.

Comment #3: norbizness  on  04/05  at  11:30 AM

What kills me are these selfish fucks justify themselves by claiming to be “Christian” and tot have family values, when jesus’s main line was to care for the poor, the ill, and the imprisoned.

These people are selfish full stop, and trulybelieve they hit a triple by being born on third base.

Comment #4: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  04/05  at  11:42 AM

(due to my tossing them in the trash once I realized how screwed up her philosophy actually was)

Makes me regret borrowing from the library.  I didn’t get the same satisfaction a machete could provide.

On the other hand, the headaches (interspersed with bouts of rolling laughter) was free, so I guess it’s a wash.

Comment #5: Jayn Newell  on  04/05  at  12:02 PM

“The conservative increased acceptance of selfishness has to do with wanting to check out of a society in which women have power and black people can be President.  It’s all one thing—no obligations without privilege.”

I don’t feel like it’s the same with deadbeat dads exactly. Every single case that I’ve ever seen was more a person wanting privilege without obligation (rather than only attending to obligations so long as they were privileged). Put another way, it has always seemed to be a case of wanting to eat your cake and have it too.

My father is a deadbeat. You would think that this means that he would have tried to wash his hands of me, but on the contrary, he feels entitled to my time and love. For guys like him, his children are his property and he is entitled to be my Dad with no qualifications. Everything about our relationship occurred completely on his terms. My needs and desires were simply not considered. I finally shut him out about four years ago, but this is not a decision that he respects or even really recognizes as mine to make.

I’ve seen this with I don’t even know how many of my friends. Their dads don’t see a relationship as a two way street. They don’t recognize their children as people. They want all the benefits of being a parent with no responsibilities or obligations. Of all my friends from broken homes (and there were a lot of broken homes in the poor area of Philly where I grew up), only maybe two people had dads who had completely cut themselves off. Everyone else was stuck with selfish dicks who only showed up when they felt like it and didn’t pay a dime for anything.

Comment #6: Lily  on  04/05  at  12:09 PM

Fundamentally, there’s a belief underneath all this that men are only obliged to live up to their responsibilities to their children if they’re getting something in return; MRAS, rooting themselves so often in libertarian arguments, see child-rearing as transactional.  And while there’s an obsession with sperm-stealing to justify this, most MRAs are like the father in this story—-they wanted to be married and have kids, and only reject taking responsibility for child-rearing after things don’t work out the way they hoped, usually for reasons that are their own damn fault.

Exactly. For Libertarians and Objectivists, all personal relationships are, to a large degree, cold economic transactions. Starting from that point, it’s easy for them to accept certain social conservative beliefs that would be pretty much anathema to small-l libertarians. Some of them combine their Libertarianism with Xtianity, resulting in a noxious mix called “Prosperity Gospel.” Others try to strip the religious dogma away, but it ends up being the same Bronze-Age fundamentalist crapola.

If one believes that it’s all transactional, of course it makes sense that women are chattel and that sperm is sacrosanct property, deposited in a woman’s womb like dollars in the bank and not subject to the woman’s “whims.” Once the child is born, it’s investment property until it gets old enough to engage in transactions itself. At which point you have lovely scenes like that heart-warming emancipation meeting (if the investment is perceived to have gone bad) or the “I gave you life, now pay up” conversation (if the investment is perceived to have gone well).

The mentality takes hold long before conception. One has to get a woman into bed and, again, it’s just business: all’s fair in gulling the marks, including the PUA guru’s shabby bag of tricks. The more “forthright” believe that the relationship or marriage transaction is male dollars and/or security in exchange for sex and/or domestic servitude from the female, but again, it amounts to the same fundie crap.

Now I’ll sit back and wait for the usual MRAs and PUA apologists to show up. Not to mention the NiceGuys™ who’ll lament that women don’t recognise their specialness in a way that’ll be familiar to anyone who’s listened to a bitter Libertarian justify his ideological stance.

I’m not even sure Rand herself would have advocated abandoning minor children

If the minor child didn’t prove himself to be carved from marble from an early age, as did Taggart or Galt or Rourke, you can bet Rand would have had no problem with leaving to little moocher to the mercy of the wolves.

Comment #7: Gracchus.  on  04/05  at  12:15 PM

In the context of my above, I should add that deadbeat dads are especially pathetic: even by Libertarian terms, they’re either such poor businessmen that they couldn’t wait for their “investment” to mature, or whingeing suckers who were tricked by crafty female confidence artists. Total non-starters in the heroic tycoon game.

Comment #8: Gracchus.  on  04/05  at  12:23 PM

“I’m not even sure Rand herself would have advocated abandoning minor children”

Abandoning implies you just walked away.  Since children have potential, and therefore future value (even if they’re just moochers now), that’s leaving money on the table.

Much better to have children treated as commodities — and traded on the commodity exchanges just like light-sweet crude oil and porkbellies.  That would be truly Randian and Objectivist. 

(In fact, it’s hard to imagine anything more “Objectionable” than that.  I’m sure Zombie Ayn Rand would heartily approve such innovative thinking…)

Comment #9: MikeEss  on  04/05  at  12:32 PM

Gracchus—I had sort of the same reaction. I read this last night and it occurs to me that the two major religions invented in the USA—Objectivism and Mormonism, are basically just bald-faced “I get what I want” blank checks for men, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence. With Mormonism, men get to declare that they had a revelation from God that says it’s ok for them to _____ (fill in the blank), and with Objectivism, they turn the human into a god unto themselves and just declare that selfishness/greed is good and you shouldn’t even have to come up with the flimsy sky-fairy excuse to just do whatever the fuck you want.

Comment #10: Mighty Ponygirl  on  04/05  at  12:32 PM

If a so-called budget guru does not know that cutting taxes increases the deficit, he’s not a guru at all. He’s an idiot.

True dat, Michael.

But then, I never understood why Rand’s novels got such a following that the fans basically created a politcal movement, out of what are, at their most distilled level, the fictional fever-dreams of a methamphetamine addict.

And nobody likes a tweaker.

Comment #11: Mezosub  on  04/05  at  12:44 PM

I read this last night and it occurs to me that the two major religions invented in the USA—Objectivism and Mormonism, are basically just bald-faced “I get what I want” blank checks for men, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

No more of a coincidence than the author’s father switching from fundamentalist Catholicism to Objectivism, or his trying to get her emancipated just when he’s involved in an ugly child-support battle with his ex.

$cientology seems to fit the same mould as Mormonism and Objectivism, instead using a hokey Golden Age of Sci Fi story to grant the equivalent of a “ticket to heaven” while allowing for all sorts of nasty behaviour. Quite a racket.

Comment #12: Gracchus.  on  04/05  at  12:46 PM

I’m still sitting here, stunned, at the father asking the daughter if he can legally abandon her so he can save money and have more fun times.  Holy shit.

Comment #13: ginmar  on  04/05  at  12:47 PM

“Jesus’s main line was to care for the poor, the ill, and the imprisoned. “

That’s not his main line, those ideas just follow logically from Jesus teaching.  At least that’s what I get out of the New Testament.  I don’t think there’s anywhere in the Gospels where Jesus commands people to care for the poor - most of his teachings are about the power of faith and the evil of hypocrisy. Seems to me the historical Jesus was somewhat of a neo Platonist who believed that people go through life trapped in their petty cares and concerns, their battles for status and worldy power.  He was teaching us to free our minds to see the divine beauty in the world - and that even the least and most miserable among us share in that divine beauty. You can argue this is why many of his teaching seem contradictory - they’re meant to be like Zen puzzles to open our minds.

Comment #14: jcnighs  on  04/05  at  12:47 PM

There was a very interesting section on Libertarianism and Objectivism in “Justice, Gender and the Family” by Susan Okin.

She starts by pointing out that, in the libertarian worldview, the person who takes raw material and transforms them into a useful object is the owner of that object, so long as the raw material was obtained legally and without restraint —that is, if a sheep farmer sells you wool free and clear to do as you wish with, you own the sweaters you make from that wool, with no need to pay royalties to the sheep farmer. Only if the sheep farmer demands a contract with you before giving you the wool that requires you to pay royalties could you have further obligation to the sheep farmer, and that will only happen if wool is extremely rare. Raw materials that are common and easy to obtain cannot fit into a model where the person who makes the raw material into a useful object has obligations to the provider of the raw material.

She then pointed out that sperm is so common and easily obtainable, men throw it out. Men give it to women for free, in exchange for a single orgasm, all the time. It is women who perform the work of transforming the raw material of sperm (which they obtain from men, for the price of a single orgasm) and egg (which they already have in their possession) to the incredibly valuable good of a sentient being.

Therefore, logically, in a libertarian world where we own the product of our labor, women own their children… indefinitely. And since children grow up into adults, libertariansm should logically produce a matriarchal slave-holding caste of old women who own everyone else.

Men who think that pure libertarianism favors *them*... when they give away a free good that is so worthless, they throw it away in tissues, and women turn that good into humans…  is laughable.

Comment #15: Alara J Rogers  on  04/05  at  12:58 PM

“How Ayn Rand ruined my childhood,” eh?  Think any dudely irresponsibility had anything to do with it?  Well, maybe, but the title is priorities, man, where we remember that bitchez is to blame for everything.

Comment #16: Unree  on  04/05  at  01:14 PM

guys like him, his children are his property and he is entitled to be my Dad with no qualifications. Everything about our relationship occurred completely on his terms.

My dad showed up after a seven year absence because his kidneys had failed. Not that he expected one of us to donate one—no sir. That was completely up to us.

I don’t think there’s anywhere in the Gospels where Jesus commands people to care for the poor

He doesn’t command, exactly. Caring for the poor only matters if you decide you want eternal life or eternal punishment. Matthew Chapter 25:

31“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32“All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

    34“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37“Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40“The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

    41“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Comment #17: Hector B.  on  04/05  at  01:21 PM

Jesus never said anything about helping the poor?  I beg to differ!  It’s a very famous passage, ending with the words, “insofar as ye have done it for the least of these my brethren, ye have done it for me”.

Look it up.  Jesus was all about helping other people.

Comment #18: Older  on  04/05  at  01:22 PM

Michael, that’s because Paul’s proposal has nothing to do with the budget.  As a conservative he wants to destroy all entitlement programs, because anyone who does not have the boot-strappy wherewithal to amass the fortune necessary to support oneself in old age does not deserve to survive.  Instead of focusing on reforming the health care system itself, which is about as artificially inflated as the housing market was during the bubble, conservatives think that all we need to do is renege on our promise of deferred compensation by rationing care.

Comment #19: Blitzgal  on  04/05  at  01:25 PM

It’s strictly due to a childish desire to kick and scream and have your needs met without having to contribute anything to anyone else.

Word to this. One thing that always amazes me is that for all their love of capitalism and our feudal overlords, randian (and really, all libertarian) types won’t pay for anything. Want to know who has a computer full of illegally downloaded music they could easily afford? These guys. How about the modded Wii containing every single Wii game in existence, none of which were actually purchased? Same people. It’s astonishing how fucking cheap they are.

Comment #20: Ross Lincoln  on  04/05  at  01:31 PM

Does Salon have a new comments policy? 

I was sure I’d see somewhere on page one or two a full-on asswipery festival, complete with “I bet you’re fat because you wanted more mashed potatoes.”

Comment #21: oldfeminist  on  04/05  at  01:37 PM

What?  A thread on Ayn Rand and no one has linked to this treasure, yet?

Now let me explain why your son was wrong.

When little Aiden toddled up our daughter Johanna and asked to play with her Elmo ball, he was, admittedly, very sweet and polite. I think his exact words were, “Have a ball, peas [sic]?” And I’m sure you were very proud of him for using his manners.

To be sure, I was equally proud when Johanna yelled, “No! Looter!” right in his looter face, and then only marginally less proud when she sort of shoved him.

Comment #22: Mandos  on  04/05  at  02:30 PM

That article is all kinds of what the fuck. It kind of reminds me of a film a few years ago called Igby Goes Down, if you haven’t seen it its about people with upper class problems but anyway this kid’s stepdad decides the ideal form of relationship is a contract. It’s a contract. See, families should be run like companies…...with everybody’s responsibilities clearly defined. Children, at the age of reason…...should be provided with legal representation and a contract drawn up. All the best relationships are based on contracts. So when stepson inevitably breaks the contract stepdad beats the shit out of him. And I thought this kind of thing was only fictional.

Comment #23: pharmakos  on  04/05  at  02:57 PM

@Ross Lincoln:
One thing that always amazes me is that for all their love of capitalism and our feudal overlords, randian (and really, all libertarian) types won’t pay for anything. Want to know who has a computer full of illegally downloaded music they could easily afford? These guys. How about the modded Wii containing every single Wii game in existence, none of which were actually purchased? Same people. It’s astonishing how fucking cheap they are.

For seriously. If you’re expecting people to pay for the stuff you produce, but refuse (because of your rational self-interest, of course) to pay for the stuff others produce, you have an untenable system.

Of course, one could argue that it’s in your rational self-interest to pay others for their goods so that they can make more for you to buy in the future. But Objectivists don’t actually appear to be that far-sighted.

Comment #24: Triplanetary  on  04/05  at  02:59 PM

I read some Rand while in high school, but thought of them as (bad) novels.

I remember summing up Amanda’s same point about 25 years ago saying (to someone) that Rand followers were basically, “Men who don’t want to pay child support.”

Even Rand wasn’t Randian when it came to her own self-interest, as has been reported widely: Rand signed up for and received her Social Security benefits as soon as she qualified for ‘em.

Comment #25: judybrowni  on  04/05  at  03:01 PM

The wonderous Echidne on another point from above:

“‘Heavy job losses in public sector employment disproportionately affected women and contributed to the dismal employment picture for women throughout the recovery. While women represented just over half (57.0 percent) of the public workforce at the end of the recession, they lost virtually all (99.6 percent) of the 257,000 jobs cut in this sector during the recovery.’

Is all this part of the Republican war against women? Probably not on the surface level. What goes on beneath that is for you to figure out.

It’s a weird coincidence that during my recent travels on Those Sites I found this very argument proposed as a way to get women back into the kitchen where they belong. Keep the policemen and the firemen, cut the make-work wimminz jobs and voila, the wimminz must go back home and menz can then be happy again. In control as they are intended to be by both god and evolutionary psychology.

I’m not saying that the Republicans are all misogynists. But it’s sorta worrying that their policies align perfectly with the policies of misogynists.”

http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.com/2011_04_03_archive.html#2218873335208953822

Comment #26: judybrowni  on  04/05  at  03:11 PM

Mandos, no one linked to that article because it is wet your pants scary. The salon article is hopeful because she works to overcome her awful upbringing. What you linked to should be retitled “How I raised a serial killer.”

Comment #27: serious bette  on  04/05  at  03:13 PM

@Mandos 25, I was just about to. Mainly to say that it wasn’t as funny now that I know there are parents who are actually like that.

Comment #28: MissCherryPi  on  04/05  at  03:13 PM

@20/21 - I agree that following Jesus’ teachings literally (which very few Christians actually do) would logically lead people to give aid and succor to the poor and unfortunate, I’m just saying I don’t think that was intended as the main thrust of his teaching. The point of his teaching is that the world is a gross and dirty place of no real account, and we should strive to join our Father in the Kingdom of Heaven. “Loving thy neighbor” seems more like a means than an end. It wasn’t about starting social programs, it was about reaching a state of mind where you can recognize the essential humanity in everyone - even social outcasts who may have been fairly well off materially - i.e. tax collectors and prostitutes. I realize I’m dangerously close to Gnostic heresy, but that’s what I see in the New Testament.  So although I find a lot commendable in orthodox Christianity, where it and progressive thought diverge is that the state of the world is of no concern to a devout Christian.  A Christian should strive to be kind and caring to the people around them and live an upright life, but I think Jesus would consider involvement in politics at best a distraction and at worst a dangerous attempt to build God’s kingdom on Earth. The problem with Christian thought, if you’re an outsider reading the Bible, is that it points to apathy about larger world affairs. Still, I think we can agree that Christianity is completely incompatible with Objectivism on every level - the spectacle of right wing conservatives trying to be ‘Christian free marketers”  is akin to watching someone try to shit out of their mouth.

Comment #29: jcnighs  on  04/05  at  03:21 PM

I don’t think there’s anywhere in the Gospels where Jesus commands people to care for the poor…
—Comment #17: jcnighs

Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”—Mathew 19:21

Just FYI.

Not that it matters one bit, but I’m tired of people claiming “Jesus said/didn’t say X”. Some things in that book are unambiguous and the admonishments towards charity, community organization and all that other Socialist stuff is among them.

And that’s how weird a world we live in: where the socialist atheists are better Christians then the self-professed followers of Jesus.

Comment #30: Keith  on  04/05  at  03:33 PM

Wow.  That essay.  Just wow.

Comment #31: bomberE  on  04/05  at  03:36 PM

Because she was duping the system! It’s only bad if you support the leeches. A true boot-strapper doesn’t need any help but if someone if offering something then you’re an idiot for not taking it because it’s just fucking there for the taking. What a Randian must never do is contribute their hard earned stuff back to the pot. And that includes what they got by charity because that is totally fucking earned, not actual work but by the cleverness inherent in playing the system. See, taking just because you can sucks resources away from the charity/program and puts them in the secure coffers of all-for-me where they will not be recirculated back into the charity/program. Eventually the bleeding-heart organization will collapse do to lack of funds/resources leaving the non-bootstrapping leeches of the world to fall even farther into the gutter where they belong while Randian over-lords soar ever higher powered by their own will! It’s one more way to separate the valuable totally independent wheat from the no-purpose-whatsoever parasite chaff.

Comment #32: scrumby  on  04/05  at  03:37 PM

A true boot-strapper doesn’t need any help but if someone if offering something then you’re an idiot for not taking it because it’s just fucking there for the taking.

Yep.  A quick look at Wiki shows…
After the Russian Revolution, universities were opened to women, including Jews, allowing Rand to be in the first group of women to enroll at Petrograd State University,[13]

Free education…

In fall 1925, Rand was granted a visa to visit American relatives.

State sponsored travel…

Intent on staying in the United States to become a screenwriter, she lived for a few months with relatives in Chicago, one of whom owned a movie theater and allowed her to watch dozens of films for free.

Cronyism and theft of intelectual property and services…

A chance meeting with famed director Cecil B. DeMille led to a job as an extra in his film, The King of Kings, and to subsequent work as a junior screenwriter.[25]

Luck and charity…

While working on The King of Kings, she met an aspiring young actor, Frank O’Connor; the two were married on April 15, 1929. Rand became an American citizen in 1931.

Gaming the system… Rand was totally a self-made woman.

Comment #33: cynickal  on  04/05  at  04:02 PM

serious bette #30: You did realize that it was satire?

MissCherryPi #31: After the 2000s it became very clear that reality would, from then on, increasingly surpass satire.  I decided to appreciate satire anyway smile

Comment #34: Mandos  on  04/05  at  04:11 PM

serious bette #30: You did realize that it was satire?

Emphasis on “was.”  Poe’s Law encompasses everything, eventually.

Comment #35: schism  on  04/05  at  05:00 PM

Regarding what Cedna said about deadbeat dads ...

More than once I’ve seen the same men complain about child support and custody.  Their thinking is, if they don’t have custody, then they don’t want anything to do with the kids.  They’ll gripe and moan about how they never wanted kids in the first place, but then paint the mother getting custody as “stealing their (the dad’s) children away from them.”  It isn’t about loving your offspring.  It’s just about power.  If you have custody, you not only have power over the kids, but you also have power over the mom.  If you don’t have custody, you’re the low man on the totem pole and might as well disappear into a cave somewhere to avoid paying out. 

I’ve seen this with dads but also with men who are just adamant about not wanting to be dads (not in that “childfree” way but more in the “I want to have lots of unprotected sex but women should just get abortions” way).  Not sure if they’re all Libertarians or Randians, but they sure are douchenozzles.

Comment #36: BonAppetit  on  04/05  at  05:26 PM

I read this last night and it occurs to me that the two major religions invented in the USA—Objectivism and Mormonism, are basically just bald-faced “I get what I want” blank checks for men, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I can’t recall seeing anything on Scientology and gender relations.  I suspect that that means that Hubbard didn’t attempt to justify a harem of young hotties for himself when he created the religion.

Comment #37: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  04/05  at  05:27 PM

I’m not even sure Rand herself would have advocated abandoning minor children.  it’s been a long while since I’ve read any of her books (due to my tossing them in the trash once I realized how screwed up her philosophy actually was), but I read enough of her back in my youth (including some of her nonfiction (!) works) to seem to recall that several of her central characters had inherited their wealth.  I mean, wasn’t Dagny Taggart a rail empire heiress?

If you’re noticing an incompatibility between inheriting vast wealth from your parents and selfishly fucking over your children, you’re not nearly solipsistic enough for true Randianism.

The only reason Rand wouldn’t have advocated abandoning children is that would have meant admitting, somewhere in her books, that children exist.

Comment #38: Dan  on  04/05  at  05:31 PM

Weirdly, the Salon article about the unfortunate kid with the Randian dad strongly reminded me of the documentary I just saw on the Phelps family of Westboro Baptist Church “God Hates Fags” picketing infamy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12919646

It seems that radical fundamentalist believers in Ayn Rand are similar in key ways to radical fundamentalist believers in a hateful, angry, hypocritical, bigoted, pick-your-own-bits-of-the-Bible god.

Comment #39: Rumblelizard  on  04/05  at  05:35 PM

Their thinking is, if they don’t have custody, then they don’t want anything to do with the kids. 

Because guys like that view their kids as property, rather than as a responsibility.  If they don’t “own” the kid (via custody) they shouldn’t have to pay for the kid.

Guys with attitudes like this tend to be awful, awful people all around.  Some of the most awful human beings I’ve known have been guys who spout that MRA crap.  And they tend to be some of the whiniest, most overly-privileged assholes I’ve known too.  Every bad thing that has ever happened in their lives is always someone else’s fault - their failed marriage is always because their ex-wife was “a bitch”.  Their lack of promotion at work is because “the boss is a dick”.  Failed a class?  It’s because the prof was an asshole.  And, of course, their failures in life are never, ever due to the fact that they’re a total asshole to everyone around them.  That could NEVER be the ultimate problem - it must be someone else’s fault.

Comment #40: NonyNony  on  04/05  at  05:41 PM

I can’t recall seeing anything on Scientology and gender relations.  I suspect that that means that Hubbard didn’t attempt to justify a harem of young hotties for himself when he created the religion.

Scientology came about during the “sexual revolution”, so there didn’t need to be much of a justification.  Hubbard didn’t need to pronounce that he could sleep with multiple women - as a cult leader he just took the prerogative and slept with a lot of women.

But then Scientology really is a blank check for everyone - the point of Scientology is to destroy your conscience enough that you can do anything without feeling bad about it (which Scientologists refer to as “destroying harmful engrams” to reach a “Clear” state).  To my knowledge Hubbard didn’t carve out gender roles specifically within his religious dogma (in practice this probably wasn’t the case) because everyone was supposed to become an amoral asshole with no conscience to speak of.

Comment #41: NonyNony  on  04/05  at  05:49 PM

Seth joined them shortly after they’d finished their meal. Taking a chair, he wiped condensed steam off his face, looked them over calculatingly.

‘How much do you two know?’

‘Enough to fight over it,’ put in Elissa. ‘They are bothered about duties, who defines them and who performs them.’

‘With good reason,’ Harrison counter-attacked. ‘You can’t escape them yourselves.’

‘Is that so?’ said Seth. ‘How d’you make that out?’

‘This world runs on some strange system of swapping obligations. How would any person cancel an ob unless he recognized it as his duty to do so?’

‘Duty nothing,’ declared Seth. ‘Duty hasn’t anything to do with it. And if it did happen to be a matter of duty every man would be left to recognize it for himself. It would be outrageous impertinence for anyone to remind him, unthinkable that anyone should order him.’

‘Some guys must make an easy living,’ interjected Gleed. ‘There’s nothing to stop them that I can see.’ He studied Seth briefly before he asked, ‘How can you cope with a citizen who has no conscience?’

‘Easy as pie.’

Elissa suggested, ‘Tell them the story of Idle Jack.’

‘It’s a kid’s yarn,’ explained Seth. ‘All children here know it by heart. It’s a classic fable like . . . like—’ He screwed up his face. ‘I’ve lost track of the Terran tales the first-comers brought with them.’

‘Red Riding Hood,’ offered Harrison.

‘Yes.’ Seth seized upon it gratefully. ‘Something like that one. A nursery story.’ He licked his lips, began, ‘This Idle Jack came from Terra as a baby, grew up in our new world, gained an understanding of our economic system and thought he’d be mighty smart. He decided to become a scratcher.’

‘What’s a scratcher?’ asked Gleed.

‘One who lives by accepting obs but does nothing about wiping them out or planting any of his own. One who takes everything that’s going and gives nothing in return.’

‘We’ve still got ’em,’ said Gleed.

‘Up to age sixteen Jack got away with it all along the line. He was only a kid, see? All kids tend to scratch to a certain extent. We expect it and allow for it. But after sixteen he was soon in the soup.’

‘How?’ urged Harrison, more interested than he was willing to admit.

‘He loafed around the town gathering obs by the armful. Meals, clothes and all sorts for the mere asking. It wasn’t a big town. There are no big ones on this planet. They are just small enough for everybody to know everybody—and everyone does plenty of gabbing. Within a few months the entire town knew that Jack was a determined and incorrigible scratcher.’

‘Go on,’ said Harrison impatiently.

‘Everything dried up,’ responded Seth. ‘Wherever Jack went people gave him the, “I won’t.” He got no meals, no clothes, no company, no entertainment, nothing. He was avoided like a leper. Soon be became terribly hungry, busted into someone’s larder one night, treated himself to the first square meal in a week.’

‘What did they do about that?’

‘Nothing, not a thing.’

‘That must have encouraged him some, mustn’t it?’

‘How could it?’ asked Seth with a thin smile. ‘It did him no good. Next day his belly was empty again. He was forced to repeat the performance. And the next day. And the next. People then became leery, locked up their stuff and kept watch on it. Circumstances grew harder and harder. They grew so unbearably hard that soon it was a lot easier to leave the town and try another one. So Idle Jack went away.’

(cont)

Comment #42: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  04/05  at  05:56 PM

‘To do the same again,’ Harrison prompted.

‘With the same results for the same reasons,’ Seth threw back at him. ‘On he went to a third town, a fourth, a fifth, a twentieth. He was stubborn enough to be witless.’

‘But he was getting by,’ Harrison insisted. ‘Taking all for nothing at the cost of moving around.’

‘Oh, no he wasn’t. Our towns are small, as I said. And people do plenty of visiting from one to another. In the second town Jack had to risk being seen and talked about by visitors from the first town. In the third town he had to cope with talkers from both the first and second ones. As he went on it became a whole lot worse. In the twentieth he had to chance being condemned by anyone coming from any of the previous nineteen.’ Seth leaned forward, said with emphasis, ‘He never reached town number twenty-eight.’

‘No?’

‘He lasted two weeks in number twenty-five, eight days in number twenty-six, one day in twenty- seven. That was almost the end. He knew he’d be recognized the moment he showed his face in number twenty-eight.’

‘What did he do then?’

‘He took to the open country, tried to live like an animal feeding on roots and wild berries. Then he disappeared-until one day some walkers found him swinging from a tree. His body was emaciated and clad in rags. Loneliness, self-neglect and his own stupidity had combined to kill him. That was Idle Jack, the scratcher. He wasn’t twenty years old.’

‘On Terra,’ remarked Gleed virtuously, ‘we don’t hang people merely for being shiftless and lazy.’

‘Neither do we,’ said Seth. ‘We give them every encouragement to go hang themselves. And when they do it’s good riddance to bad rubbish.’ He eyed them shrewdly as he went on, ‘But don’t let it worry you. Nobody has been driven to such drastic measures in my lifetime, leastways, not that I’ve heard about. People honour their obs as a matter of economic necessity and not from any sense of duty. Nobody gives orders, nobody pushes anyone around, but there’s a kind of compulsion built into the circumstances of this planet’s way of life. People play square—or they suffer. Nobody enjoys suffering, not even a numbskull.’

And Then There Were None, Chap. 5

Comment #43: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  04/05  at  05:58 PM

I agree that following Jesus’ teachings literally (which very few Christians actually do) would logically lead people to give aid and succor to the poor and unfortunate, I’m just saying I don’t think that was intended as the main thrust of his teaching. The point of his teaching is that the world is a gross and dirty place of no real account, and we should strive to join our Father in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Comment #32: jcnighs on 04/05 at 02:21 PM

A suicide cult?  Great.

Comment #44: oldfeminist  on  04/05  at  05:58 PM

Pretty sick. Poor girl. Its like they thought she should pay HIM child support?

Comment #45: Bean Slap  on  04/05  at  06:20 PM

Mandos #38,

Yes. But I’m really afraid that it won’t be satire for long.

Comment #46: serious bette  on  04/05  at  07:13 PM

At the end of the day, a purely transactional view of human relationships just doesn’t work.  Objectivists, as she said, fancy themselves as purely logical, but they’re not.  It’s a philosophy rooted completely in emotion with no empiricism or rationality to it.  It’s strictly due to a childish desire to kick and scream and have your needs met without having to contribute anything to anyone else.  It’s about closing your eyes to the demonstrable fact that humans are pack animals and interconnected with each other, because you’re so narcissistic that you want to believe that you fly alone.  And it’s often about situations like this, where the libertarian wants an excuse to avoid basic grown-up responsibilities like taking care of your minor children or paying your taxes.

This is one of the best capsule summaries of what is wrong with Randism that I’ve ever read. Thank you.

Comment #47: tesseral  on  04/05  at  08:51 PM

Would Ayn Rand have been bothered by the idea of abandoning a minor child? Maybe, maybe not. I think you can make a pretty strong case for “not” based on the fact that she idolized a man who became famous by murdering and dismembering a 12-year-old girl and went on to base her heroes on the characteristics she saw in him.

The best way to get to the bottom of Ayn Rand’s beliefs is to take a look at how she developed the superhero of her novel, Atlas Shrugged, John Galt. Back in the late 1920s, as Ayn Rand was working out her philosophy, she became enthralled by a real-life American serial killer, William Edward Hickman, whose gruesome, sadistic dismemberment of 12-year-old girl named Marion Parker in 1927 shocked the nation. Rand filled her early notebooks with worshipful praise of Hickman. According to biographer Jennifer Burns, author of Goddess of the Market, Rand was so smitten with Hickman that she modeled her first literary creation—Danny Renahan, the protagonist of her unfinished first novel, The Little Street—on him.

What did Rand admire so much about Hickman? His sociopathic qualities: “Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should,” she wrote, gushing that Hickman had “no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel ‘other people.’”

http://www.alternet.org/books/145819/ayn_rand,_hugely_popular_author_and_inspiration_to_right-wing_leaders,_was_a_big_admirer_of_serial_killers

Comment #48: SallyStrange  on  04/05  at  11:40 PM

Re: What Jesus said or didn’t say

If you believe the historical evidence, Jesus didn’t exist. He’s a composite myth. So arguing about what he did or didn’t say is pointless. Really you’re just arguing about your own personal sense of morality and ethics, so why not frame the discussion that way?

Comment #49: SallyStrange  on  04/05  at  11:44 PM

“Compassionate conservatism” is one of the most bizarre phrases; it is entirely out of touch with reality. And the idea that Christians have a lock on morality…? Bullshit. And those are the same people who pretend to “think of the children” too don’t they? Conservatives and Christians got nothing that other people can’t do a million times better.

For example, my clinically depressed ass recently talked with my boss about my depression. “I’ve been worried about you,” she said to me. “I want to help you. Have you told your parents? If you were my daughter I’d want to know.” So I called my parents and, after talking to them (“would you like us to visit you? Are you feeling alright?”) I thanked them for their time and help, and they laughed; “we had kids for a reason, you know! We love you!”

All of those people are liberal to the bone. And my boss is a godless liberal. Conservative fucks can kiss my ass and die; they wouldn’t know compassion and good parenting if Marymotherofjesus herself stuck her compassionate parent sandal up their righteous asses.

Comment #50: Bagelsan  on  04/06  at  02:22 AM

If you believe the historical evidence, Jesus didn’t exist.

Correct. He’s merely the result of memories implanted by space aliens.

Moreover, if you believe the historical evidence, my great-grandparents didn’t exist. Although my existence tends to support the theory that I had great-grandparents.

Comment #51: Hector B.  on  04/06  at  03:11 AM

Huh?

So the evidence that Jesus lived, is his descendants? Who? Where?

But here’s a summation of the “historical evidence,” such as it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Greco-Roman_Pagan_sources

Comment #52: judybrowni  on  04/06  at  04:05 AM

He’s merely the result of memories implanted by space aliens.

So you know people who have firsthand memories of Jesus?

Comment #53: Triplanetary  on  04/06  at  06:31 AM

What basis is there for the idea of expecting the existence of a smalltime wonderworker from an obscure part of the Roman Empire to be lavishly documented in historical records? For example, where is the list of crucified Judeans from the first century?

Comment #54: Hector B.  on  04/06  at  11:08 AM

Arguing that Jesus “never existed” is silly, pursuing that line of argument only makes sense if you think Jesus had to be divine or nothing. A far simpler explanation is that there really was a Joshua of Nazareth who went around Palestine preaching his philosophy to his fellow Jews, he was very annoying to both the Jewish and Roman authorities and they had him killed. That would probably be end of the story if it weren’t for Saul/Paul who had the inspiration to market the story and teachings of Jesus to the gentiles as a kind of “Judaism-light” - you get the fellowship and humanism of Judaism without the bother of all those Jewish laws.  Brilliant idea, and the rest is history. The historical Jesus would probably be horrified at what has been done in his name, and he wasn’t even that fond of gentiles (see Matthew 15:21-28).

Comment #55: jcnighs  on  04/06  at  11:44 AM

There are some people who seem intent on disproving the existence of Jesus to score some kind of point against Christians, rather than out of honest desire to find historical truth. That being said, I find the theory that Jesus was a real person, and the theory that he was completely fabricated by Paul equally likely.

But that’s from a layman’s perspective. I’m sure historians who study such things could present a far more compelling case for one or the other.

Comment #56: Triplanetary  on  04/06  at  12:35 PM

Randians and the like don’t really view human relationships as contracts; they view them as EULAs that they get to write. Because you know that poor sap questing for another orgasm would sign anything to get it. So there’s a special clause that says he was under duress and whatever he signed isn’t valid.

Comment #57: paul  on  04/06  at  01:40 PM

Arguing that Jesus “never existed” is silly, pursuing that line of argument only makes sense if you think Jesus had to be divine or nothing. A far simpler explanation is that there really was a Joshua of Nazareth who went around Palestine preaching his philosophy to his fellow Jews, he was very annoying to both the Jewish and Roman authorities and they had him killed.

If this were so then you’d expect to see some contemporary records indicating such, besides the Bible. The Romans were meticulous record-keepers. But there are no such records, as far as I know, despite the best efforts of Christian historians. On the balance, the historical record doesn’t corroborate the Bible. It has nothing to do with whether he was a divine personage or not.

Comment #58: SallyStrange  on  04/06  at  02:02 PM

Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein: While certainly libertarian, the society described in that story could only be described as “objectivist” if you squint really hard while looking at it. After drinking heavily. With a head injury.

Comment #59: Mike Crichton  on  04/06  at  02:55 PM

The only time I remember Rand talking about kids it was in a horrifyingly negative light.  In Atlas Shrugged, she talks about how 2 kids in a train deserved to die with their mother because the mother was married to a “parasite” that worked for the government.  In “We the Living” a teenage aristocrat beating a handicapped kid was totally evidence of her superiority.  Also in “We the Living” the only person who cares about her kid is a Communist true-believer.  In the Fountainhead, the only kids we see are the ones in the home for the handicapped, and the street urchins that press their noses in.  They are only described as “brats” and “bewildered”.  Dominique’s father is considered to be somewhat of a dork because he loves his child so much.  In Anthem, the description of all of the other kids in the brief time the main character is talking about school are all described as low creatures, except for his brilliant self and one friend.

This woman was profoundly misanthropic, but children seem to get special hatred.  I think she would have abandoned kids with glee.  And that fundamentally is one of the major problems with this philosophy- you cannot be a selfish ass and have a good next generation.

Comment #60: Antigone  on  04/06  at  03:33 PM

Looking up the father, we see that he is a patent attorney, a geek’s geek, with a record of bar discipline for committing battery.

Comment #61: Hector B.  on  04/06  at  04:17 PM

MC:  It completely demonstrates the silliness of ‘Going Galt’, and is an example of how a cashless society(hardly a libertarian concept!) might work.

SallyStrange, there are some mentions of Jesus outside the Biblical literature, check out Josephus, for example:

And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.[8]

Josephus on Jesus

Comment #62: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  04/06  at  05:34 PM

On a thread about Objectivism and children, I’m surprised that no-one has has brought this up:
ATLAS SHRIEKED: Ayn Rand’s First Love and Mentor Was A Sadistic Serial Killer Who Dismembered Little Girls”, The ExileD, February 26, 2010, by Mark Ames

Comment #63: atheist  on  04/08  at  06:43 PM

#52 linked to a different article about it, but yeah.

Comment #64: Triplanetary  on  04/09  at  07:16 AM
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