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Oh noes, someone forgot to tell the Canadians they’re women!

FeminismSports

The Canadian women’s hockey team won the gold medal at the Olympics.  Pandagon would like to congratulate these fine female athletes for their performance on the ice during the game, but also after the game, where they showed the world how to celebrate an Olympic gold medal.

They also commandeered the ice surfacing machine and drove around on it.  To folks with common sense, this entire party on ice is about as surprising as the sun coming up in the morning.  You don’t have to follow women’s hockey to know that female hockey players are athletes, and as such, will behave like athletes do when they win and win big.  Which is, they party.  They guzzle champagne and goof off.  They celebrate themselves for kicking ass, as they should. 

But of course, they are women and we all know that it’s just unladylike to show that much pride and ambition.  And so they must be smacked down!  But it’s also unseemly nowadays to be an overt sexist who comes right out and says, “Female athletes are illegitimate to begin with, and so the mere fact that we let them play sports should mean they act with extreme humility when they win, ideally taking those medals they win and immediately handing them over, heads down, to family members or perhaps the men’s team.”  But I wish that people would just come out and say that, because the other option—-besides the impossible “grow up and be happy for these women”—-is fucking concern trolling

The Canadian women’s ice hockey team have been forced to apologize for celebrating their Olympic gold by swigging champagne and smoking cigars, The Sun reported Friday.

The partying took place after the players had collected their medals for their 2-0 win over the United States Thursday.

The International Olympic Committee had said it would investigate whether the public celebration was harmful to the image of the players and ice hockey in general.

Oh, I’m sure people will swear up and down that men would get the same treatment.  And maybe they will….from here on out.  But let’s not fool ourselves here.  Some of the complaints are serious reaches, and not just when you express the idea that hockey players guzzling champagne (which is what the male winners of the Stanley Cup do as a tradition) is somehow an embarrassment to hockey’s image.  That they had to fend off complaints that this encouraged smoking is even sillier, but the mother of all concern troll complaints is that a player on the team was “underage” at 18, which is the drinking age in many parts of Canada.  That’s the sort of thing that screams “reach”, and the reaching is obviously due to the fact that a whole lot of people still have problems with female athletes, especially when they behave like athletes. 

This tension seems pronounced when it comes to the Olympics, where a lot of properly feminine sports that involve costumes and the athletes starving themselves—-like ice skating and gymnastics—-are promoted heavily, and where women’s ski jump is still being kept out, with outdated arguments about ovary-jiggling being employed.  A lot of the Olympics organizers take the notion that the athletes are role models way too seriously, and when you start talking “role model” expectations and women, you’re going to start seeing a lot of sexist assumptions about ladylike behavior being employed.  Tracy Clark-Flory found at least one blogger using this incident to slam the very idea of women play “men’s” sports.  I wish hockey was that much of a threat to the patriarchy.

But what this concern troll outcry really made me think of was a similar incident in 1999 that caused a million pointless op-eds of faux concern.


Yes, when Brandi Chastain kicked the winning goal for the women’s World Cup championship, and a million people used “modesty” as a cover to shame her for daring to celebrate her own athletic powers in the same way male soccer players do.  To this day, the 2nd search when you type “brandi chastain” into Google is “brandi chastain controversy”, after “brandi chastain playboy”. 

We’ve come a long way since then, I think, but clearly there are still a lot of people who think female athletes should only be permitted to play if they affect a ladylike humility about their own skills, perhaps even being a bit ashamed about doing unseemly things like winning. 

If this is really a matter of role modeling, I’d say that the Canadian women’s hockey team are great role models for young women.  Seeing a bunch of strong women go out there, kick ass, and then be proud of themselves for it, while telling naysayers to shove it up their asses?  That’s the sort of thing young women need to see.  Young women already are inundated with self-esteem stripping messages about how it’s naughty to win, shameful to be proud of yourself, and unsexy and threatening to be competitive.  Nor do they need more messages about how achievement is only acceptable in women if it comes with self-effacing perfection. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 03:08 PM • (91) Comments

Pardon the Interruption will never be known as a bastion of gender sensitivity, but I was glad to see Dan LeBatard do his best to shut down criticism of this celebration. Mike Wilbon wasn’t completely on the concern troll bandwagon—not to the extent of others I’ve seen talk about this—though he was certainly not supportive, but LeBatard’s reaction was much like this one, and mine. I thought this celebration was awesome and appropriate to the occasion. Hell, if I were in that situation, I’d probably strip down and slide across the ice bare-assed. Cigars and beer are tame.

Comment #1: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  02/27  at  03:19 PM

I’m sure there’s also something unsettling to a lot of people of seeing a party where the partiers are all women.  It drives home the point that they really are just doing this shit for their own satisfaction, not as some performance for someone else.

Comment #2: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/27  at  03:24 PM

Athletic women hurt the precious fee-fees of shlumpy dudez who, despite having bought into gender essentialism whole hog, don’t bother to actually perform masculinity in athletic ways. And here are these mere girls, having the muscles that should have been a dudely birthright! It’s horrible I tell ya!

The solution, of course, is an end to gender essentialism for all, so that no men feel inadequate for being unable or unwilling to spend their life snarfing protein and deadlifting. But you knew that.

Comment #3: Yawgmoth  on  02/27  at  03:40 PM

It drives home the point that they really are just doing this shit for their own satisfaction, not as some performance for someone else.

This is especially evident when you look at the first photo in this post. The only reason women are supposed to have fun, after all, is to attract a husband so they can settle down and stop having fun.

In a similar vein, patriarchs probably didn’t appreciate being reminded by Chastain that a woman can take her shirt off without it being an overtly sexual gesture. As much as the whine about the over-sexualization of our culture and media, they’re the ones who demand that things like nudity (or even a bare midriff, apparently) always be seen as sexual.

Comment #4: Triplanetary  on  02/27  at  03:45 PM

So, no men’s teams have ever shaken and then opened of bottle of champagne and then poured it over the heads of team mates and coaches.

Comment #5: PurpleGirl  on  02/27  at  03:45 PM

This is especially evident when you look at the first photo in this post. The only reason women are supposed to have fun, after all, is to attract a husband so they can settle down and stop having fun.

Yes!  Women are only allowed to be ecstatic when a dude proposes to them.  Any other time would be unseemly.

Comment #6: Cat Ion  on  02/27  at  03:54 PM

My understanding is that this took place in a mostly empty stadium.  The fans had all left, and all that was left were these women (and friends and family) and the media.

Comment #7: Wallace  on  02/27  at  03:54 PM

Something that was completely legal, completely understandable, which didn’t hurt anybody else??? WTF.

This is one more reason why I’m an Olympic Grinch. I find the IOC’s high-minded concern about the image of hockey both hilarious and frustrating. And it’s a massive case of the pot calling the kettle black, since the IOC themselves are a corrupt, sexist, racist, controlling body to begin with. They’ve got this high-and-mighty pure image of the games they want to project, at the expense of the athletes’ humanity. It’s practically religious, and it really feels like the whitewashing of a sepulchre. (Or alternately, feel-good propaganda to play to the jingoistic tendancies of the most powerful players.) It really feels like the more we have to complain about regarding the IOC, the tighter the controls they put on the athletes. (And the athletes and their countries bear the financial brunt of coming to the Games in most cases, as far as I know.)

The Games, for me, shouldn’t be so sacrosanct that a handful of young exuberant girls, having achieved the pinnacle of their dreams and maybe their careers, shouldn’t be able to behave in a human way. They harmed nobody. Making them apologise is to give in to a need to humiliate them for being more powerful, for being momentarily the epitome of powerful womanhood in a game that men have traditionally dominated. BLECH.

Anyway, this pisses me off.

Side note - the many reasons I have to be an Olympic Grinch:

- corruption and bribery are modus operandi in the IOC, particularly when “awarding” cities. (SLC was caught and blamed, but hello, the IOC had been encouraging that shit for decades.)
- sexism rampant with gender testing, segregation of sports that don’t need it, refusal to implement ski jumping for women, etc.
- racism - the IOC has several times let the governments of countries participate who are actively engaged in crimes against races or peoples, stripped medals from athletes for their “black power” salutes while ignoring the history that let Hitler try to use the Games as propaganda, they also appropriated indigenous imagery while ignoring the majority of those indigenous folks when they raised concerns
- controlling - the IOC maintains a tight hold on the media portrayal, has tried to institute the oh-so-fun free speech zones, often harnesses local vendors until they pay licensing fees, forbids equipment manufacturers to factually assert that Olympic Athletes use their equipment unless licensing fees are paid, make it expensive or prohibitive for many folks to attend the games in their own cities.

I like seeing the Athletes and the world come together….I could just do without the IOC, or wish the IOC would fucking reform itself before pointing a finger at girls who were celebrating naturallly. (Of course, if they reformed the way I think they ought, there would be no finger pointing, because people would be allowed to be people, and legal adult behaviour wouldn’t need to be policed to maintain a white-washed image of purity.)

Comment #8: PixelFish  on  02/27  at  03:55 PM

Sorry, should have said women, and not girls.

Comment #9: PixelFish  on  02/27  at  04:00 PM

- racism - the IOC has several times let the governments of countries participate who are actively engaged in crimes against races or peoples, stripped medals from athletes for their “black power” salutes while ignoring the history that let Hitler try to use the Games as propaganda, they also appropriated indigenous imagery while ignoring the majority of those indigenous folks when they raised concerns

People who served on that version of the IOC are different from those who served on the later IOC.  Each iteration attempts to play the Olympics differently.  I agree it wasn’t right to take their medals away but the post-war Olympics have made an attempt to anti-racist for the large part.  Also if you recount, Jesse Owens viciously beat Hitler’s Aryan racers.

All and all, the anger over this is just plain silly.  It is largely because they’re women that they’re treated this way and it breaks the gender role perception.  I would be far more worried about as the IOC tightens it’s belt they’ll drop women’s sports than this crap.

Comment #10: Xeranar  on  02/27  at  04:11 PM

I’m worried this will give the IOC reasons to be “concerned” about expanding the role of women’s sports in future games.

Comment #11: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/27  at  04:16 PM

Does anyone have oversight over the International Olympic Committee?  From Google I can’t even tell whether they’re a nonprofit or a for-profit corporation.  I assume the Swiss government gives them a pretty free hand.  Who reviews their books?  Do they have to obey any laws?  Can anyone dislodge them from their world power?

Comment #12: Unree  on  02/27  at  04:25 PM

I just… still cannot believe people are still using the ovary-jiggling excuse for anything. That should be a shooting offense in this century.

Comment #13: thecynicalromantic  on  02/27  at  04:26 PM

Amanda’s point at #2 makes sense to me.

I can’t count how many men I have encountered at dance clubs who seem genuinely confused at the idea that a group of women might be there to dance and not to attract a male dance partner (said confusion frequently being immediately followed by anger). That we would want to celebrate - gasp - without them! The horror! Even more countless are the instances where a good mood or positive comment about being pleased with life in general and feeling like celebrating in some way is interpreted by a female friend as a direct comment on the status of my romantic relationship. Couldn’t possibly be because I’m happy with my job, or I just read the most awesome novel or something. It seems like, coming and going, it’s all about a man: celebration as performance for men, celebration as only valid when it is a response to something a man did.

So I imagine when it is publicized, this dirty secret that we sometimes party with ourselves, for ourselves, and because of ourselves, the actors must be shamed so that the entire celebration gets reframed as an affront to a powerful group of (I’m guessing) mostly men to whom said women must apologize. So then it’s retroactively all about men again, and all is well with the world.

Comment #14: Dymphna  on  02/27  at  04:27 PM

Even before the gold medal game there were talks of removing women’s ice hockey from the Olympics because of “lack of competition”.

This, naturally, completely ignores how three teams dominated men’s ice hockey for decades until other countries started to invest in the sport. It also ignores how it is possible to make a very good living playing professional sports as a man.

Take away the Olympic goal for women, and countries will have no patriotic excuse to fund women’s sports, especially team sports. And then they’ll tell us that it’s because women aren’t determined enough or aren’t interested in sport, instead of recognizing that a lack of support, funding, and opportunity is holding us back.

Comment #15: wondering  on  02/27  at  04:36 PM

Ladylike my ass!

When those women celebrated, I hooted along with them. They WON! And damn right they should celebrate. When guys celebrate, who says a thing about it? No one.

As a Canadian woman (although one that doesn’t give a crap for sports at all), I can say that when they won, I jumped out of the chair and shouted and cheered. I wasn’t alone either. So screw all these morons that want us to be all dainty.

Comment #16: xxxevilgrinxxx  on  02/27  at  04:37 PM

Wondering, even more indefensible than their talk about removing womens hockey is their continued opposition to allowing women to compete in ski-jumping, and by extension, Nordic-combined. Women often fly farther than men, but the IOC won’t let them on the hill.

Comment #17: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  02/27  at  04:39 PM

I would be far more worried about as the IOC tightens it’s belt they’ll drop women’s sports than this crap.

Rumor has it that IOC President Jacque Rogge is being pretty forthright in his statements that women’s ice hockey may be eliminated from future games… and he has been hinting at that since before the Canadian team’s gold medal win this year.

Comment #18: DTG in STL  on  02/27  at  04:48 PM

Even more countless are the instances where a good mood or positive comment about being pleased with life in general and feeling like celebrating in some way is interpreted by a female friend as a direct comment on the status of my romantic relationship.

Totally OT, but YES YES A MILLION TIMES YES.

A variation on this happened to me yesterday.  I was commenting to a coworker about how stressed out I’ve been feeling lately, and the first comment out of her mouth was, “Is it about [ Dude ]?”  No, asshole, it’s about how I’m miserable in my job, my living situation is completely up in the air, I have no idea where I’ll be in 6 months, and I’m broke.  My boyfriend is awesome.

It’s like I only get to have feelings as a corollary of being in a relationship.

Comment #19: The Opoponax  on  02/27  at  04:52 PM

the mother of all concern troll complaints is that a player on the team was “underage” at 18, which is the drinking age in many parts of Canada.

Indeed, Marie-Philip Poulin, the “underage” player, is of legal drinking age in Québec where she lives—and has been for almost a year. She’ll turn nineteen in about four weeks.  I hardly think we can accuse her teammates of corrupting her.

Comment #20: Pomme  on  02/27  at  04:53 PM

Yeah, the IOC has been threatening to drop women’s hockey because—wait for it—the U.S. and Canada dominate the sport. By that standard, men’s basketball should have been scrapped years ago (minus the Canada part).

Comment #21: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  02/27  at  05:00 PM

Does anyone have oversight over the International Olympic Committee?  From Google I can’t even tell whether they’re a nonprofit or a for-profit corporation.

It is a non-profit corporation headquartered in Lausanne, Switzerland that was formed in 1894 by Pierre de Coubertin and Demetrios Vikelas, and it consists of 205 National Olympic Committees (NOCs).  It is headed by a 15 member Executive Board consisting of the IOC President, 4 Vice-Presidents, and ten regular members.  The IOC President is elected to an initial 8 year term, and may subsequently be re-elected to a second 4 year term, but must step down after 12 years.

The IOC has 115 voting members that select host cities for future games, and the vast majority of the members are from Europe, followed by North America.  The least represented continent is by far Africa, which I believe has fewer than ten members.  Sort of explains why there has never been any Olympic Games held in Africa (though there is speculation that the IOC wants to award 2020 to an African host city).

Comment #22: DTG in STL  on  02/27  at  05:04 PM

#8 and #10:

When were Smith and Carlos “stripped of their medals”?  The records still show Smith as the winner.  Whether they still possess the medals is up to them, but there’s no indication the IOC took them away.

Comment #23: Thlayli  on  02/27  at  05:04 PM

An occasional celebratory cigar probably never hurt anyone (at least not much), but speaking as one whose family has been devastated by smoking for several generations, I really wish people in prominent public positions—role models whether they signed up for that or not—wouldn’t smoke in such public venues.  Say what you will, it glamorizes smoking and makes it seem cool to impressionable kids.  That said, I agree that, yes, WAY too much has been made of this, and that guys probably wouldn’t have been criticized nearly as severely (if at all).  But still, wouldn’t champagne have been enough until they were in private?  I’d ask the same of males, of course.

Comment #24: MS  on  02/27  at  05:10 PM

I’m sure there’s an undercurrent, or just plain overt sexism driving this.

But along the lines of PixelFinch’s comment above, there’s also the general stick-up-butt-edness of the Olympics in general, which goes back to their longstanding investment in a “gentlemanly” amateur ethos.  (Of course, that’s both sexist and classist by design:  the whole Olympic concept is kind of like _Chariots of Fire_, pitting the kinds of people who go to their nations’ local equivalents of Eton or Ox-bridge against one another.  You have to be well-to-do enough to be an amateur.  Racing _for money_, I daresay, makes one a rather sordid chap.)

So the comparisons to the way _professional_ male athletes celebrate victory may actually something of a red herring—I can’t remember any champagne celebrations by men at the Olympics, either.  The overriding fiction of the Olympics is that these are “the youth of the world” driven by nothing but their sheer love of competition and their own natural exuberance, damped down to a suitably dignified and patriotic level.

IMHO sexism is _amplifying_ the stodginess and protocol-and-decorum obsessions of the occasion.  There would also be “controversy” about a men’s Olympic team that celebrated this way, although the fact that it’s a women’s team is clearly making it worse.

But, all that said, I can’t _imagine_ anyone caring.

Comment #25: FlipYrWhig  on  02/27  at  05:16 PM

Women often fly farther than men, but the IOC won’t let them on the hill.

And there you have your reason. Every Olympic sport that has both men and women participating makes sure that women are starting from the earlier point, are doing jumps with fewer rotations, are less violent so the results of women’s athletics can always be held up as “proof” that women aren’t better than men at anything. If what you are saying proves correct*, banning ski jumping for women is a sign of incredibly pathetic ego preservation.

*I only say that because I have no other information about this and am too lazy to look shit up. I’m hung over from partying with my friends (male AND female OMG) last night without goals of impressing or attracting men in a sexual way

Comment #26: Ursula  on  02/27  at  07:13 PM

When were Smith and Carlos “stripped of their medals”?  The records still show Smith as the winner.  Whether they still possess the medals is up to them, but there’s no indication the IOC took them away.

They weren’t stripped of their medals, but they were immediately kicked out of the Olympic Village and suspended from the U.S. team at the order of IOC President Avery Brundage (the only American to ever serve as IOC President).  Brundage’s decision was extremely controversial, as he had made no issue of the Nazi salute being used during the 1936 Games when he was the USOC President, and he even praised Hitler’s Olympics as the “finest games ever held”.

Brundage was a vile misogynist and a racist - he vehemently opposed the inclusion of ANY women’s competitions in the Olympics, and it was he who secretly worked to have Native American Jim Thorpe stripped of his 1912 gold medals for violating the rules prohibiting professional athletes from participation (Thorpe briefly played semi-professional baseball for a paltry sum of money as a college student, unaware that it would have disqualified him as an Olympic competitor at the time).

Comment #27: DTG in STL  on  02/27  at  07:32 PM

You have to be well-to-do enough to be an amateur.

The “amateur” element of the Games went out the door 20 years ago - remember the 1992 U.S. Men’s Basketball “Dream Team” consisting of the very best NBA stars of the time?  The NHL is currently on a two week hiatus - specifically because so many professional NHL players are participating in the Olympics for their home countries.  The top athletes in most of the Olympic sports nowadays would definitely be in violation of the amateur rules of the old Olympics… Red Bull spent $500,000 to build a private halfpipe for U.S. snowboarder Shaun White to train on for these games.

Comment #28: DTG in STL  on  02/27  at  07:32 PM

Thank you, Amanda. Triple thank you.

Comment #29: Ranylt  on  02/27  at  07:34 PM

Re: ovary jiggling through strenuous physical exertion. It’s touching that the gender that carries its gonads around in little bags outside the body is so solicitous of the gender that keeps its family jewels safely inside the abdomen.

Comment #30: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  02/27  at  07:37 PM

The “amateur” element of the Games went out the door 20 years ago

Right—it’s gone in actuality, but it remains as an ethos, a bullshit ethos that includes expecting the competitors to behave like Edwardian prep-school boys.

Comment #31: FlipYrWhig  on  02/27  at  07:51 PM

Well, I utterly hate smoking. I always struggle to mind my own business instead of telling smokers, “I have asthma, and you are healthy and have no idea how incredibly disabling it is to have your lungs HURT with every breath. Please, please don’t injure your body with that poison.” But I want to say the same thing to young men smoking as I do young women. And I always DO end up minding my own business.

Comment #32: Samantha Vimes  on  02/27  at  08:27 PM

MS - In my almost-29 years of being a young person on this planet, I have so far never heard of ANYONE who became addicted to tobacco because they thought smoking cigars seemed cool.  The vast majority of everyone I know who uses tobacco with any regularity smokes cigarettes.  I’ve smoked maybe 5 cigars in my life, and none of those experiences inspired me to use tobacco with enough regularity to become addicted. 

For that matter, how many teenagers could afford to use cigars as a gateway to tobacco addiction?

Comment #33: The Opoponax  on  02/27  at  08:39 PM

I hate the Olympics ever since they took place here in Atlanta. What a bunch of pompous bogosity. But if I won a gold medal (for what? disdain?) I’d celebrate on the ice or whatever. Why do people have such conniptions about others’ having a good time?

Comment #34: felagund  on  02/27  at  08:41 PM

Isn’t it true that male gonads need to be protected from overexcitement?  Excuse me if I am wrong, but doesn’t extreme stress cause them to produce female children rather than the expected human norm?  I think more needs to be done to save the males.

Comment #35: scratchy888  on  02/27  at  08:50 PM

Opoponax @ 33—You might have a point, but I really dislike ANYTHING that makes any kind of smoking seem cool or sophisticated.  At least three generations of my family have had their lives cut short due, to a greater or lesser extent, to smoking.  I just wish public people who smoke would considering keeping it in private.  Note “wish,” not “demand.”  Maybe I’m being oversensitive because of my family history, and I do agree that the hoopla over this incident is pretty silly.  I think it’s ridiculous that they were forced to apologize.  But, again, couldn’t they have waited to light up until they were in private, given what is known about the health risks of tobacco, and given their very public profile?  Maybe I’m overestimating the impact of role models; I would like to hope so, but I can’t help but wonder how many people started smoking because of Bogart and Bacall.

Comment #36: MS  on  02/27  at  09:02 PM

To be fair, the women’s team probably thought they were celebrating in private. Reportedly, they were whooping it up in the locker room when some non-media photographers beckoned them back to the ice to take souvenir shots. They apparently didn’t realize that an AP photog was still in the building.

Comment #37: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  02/27  at  09:08 PM

Just as another datapoint, the USOC did just kick a male snowboarder out of the Olympic village for having his picture taken doing something crass.  (At a party, he put his medal around his waist and a woman kissed it.  Both were fully clothed.  Not the most tasteful behavior, but not illegal, dangerous, or immoral.) 

There’s only the vaguest similarity between the two incidents, but the snowboarder’s experience does demonstrate that it’s pretty typical for Olympic athletes to be held to a different standard of behavior than is usual for other sporting events.  I totally agree that this behavioral policing is even more stringent for the female athletes, who are expected to be both dignified and feminine. 

I do think that the US snowboarder I just described showed poor judgment—he didn’t really do anything *wrong*, but it would have been smarter not to do it.  But it’s something that could be handled by his coach and/or teammates sitting him down and reminding him that the whole world is watching and he should show some gravitas, instead of showing his ass.  Sending him home is an overreaction. 

The Canadian women’s hockey team’s celebration, on the other hand, to me seems within the bounds of appropriate behavior for their situation—I don’t think they should have anticipated that it would cause a problem.

Comment #38: A.  on  02/27  at  09:23 PM

I can’t help but wonder how many people started smoking because of Bogart and Bacall.

There was a family friend who started out as a clerk in a drug store in the late 30s, he took up smoking not because of Hollywood(which would’ve been ironic, because it was a Rexall drug store in Hollywood!), but because the owner noticed he was tired and told him to take a smoke break outside, so he took up smoking for the lift and the excuse for the break from work.

I’ve lost family members to smoking as well, but I don’t think this’ll start anything anymore than the character George Seagal played in Just Shoot Me who was known on occasion to smoke Cuban cigars started anything.

Comment #39: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  02/27  at  09:36 PM

Meanwhile, Sports Illustrated peddles soft porn ...

That said, I don’t know a rightwing or leftwing hard charging hockey-playing guy around here who didn’t just LOVE that celebration.  Gimme a break?  The only pearl clutchers here seem to be the wimps who like to talk a good game but would be too chicken about the potential ass whuppin if they ever actually particpated.

Comment #40: Ms Kate  on  02/27  at  09:55 PM

BTW, how can you be ‘harmful to the image of ice hockey’ when the sport has been tarnished repeatedly by gang rape?

Comment #41: Ms Kate  on  02/27  at  09:56 PM

Samantha, it has been demonstrated that smokers have much higher initial lung function that permits them to undertake their habit often enough to get hooked.  Their lungs don’t hurt.  Tobacco smoke also contains bronchodialators, believe it or not!  Not that it is recomended for asthma treatment, mind you ...

Comment #42: Ms Kate  on  02/27  at  10:00 PM

This type of thing irritates me to no end, and I think what bugs me the most about it is the way it ruins women’s fun. These women have just kicked major ass, done amazing things they have worked so hard for, and they are understandably thrilled and proud. It makes me giddy just to see those pictures, I’m so filled with joy for them….and then along comes the usual crowd to just piss on their parade. Fucking assholes.

Comment #43: antiope  on  02/27  at  10:23 PM

Ms Kate - duh, raping women isn’t a crime unless you can’t get away with it. They’ve said 1 in 5 women is raped in college. The men raping them, if they are the same ones, constitute campuses allowing serial rapists to walk around with those they have victimized and will victimize in the fure. I mean, if that was actually a criminal thing, it wouldn’t happen, but since bitches ain’t shit, it isn’t a crime. 

BTW I’m trying to come off sarcastic about the situation in a friendly way, since I know your comments to know that you know that already.

Comment #44: Ursula  on  02/27  at  10:23 PM

@26

You hit the nail on the head. The world record in the ski jump is currently held by a woman and women have often done as well or better than men and there’s no way in hell the IOC is going to allow that to be seen. Women’s sports need to be a handicap, a condescending deference to the little ladies who are trying so hard to be men, but just so much weaker than the “real” athletes.

Airing an event where the women are doing better in a raw quantifiable way would shatter that illusion and be a giant blow for more equal treatment and something young girls would look up to. This cannot be allowed to be for the good of the patriarchy.

@The post

Pretty much everything you said.

It’s also worth noting that these are women hockey players. They don’t go back to a well-televised Stanley Cup. This is their World Cup, their big stage above all big stages. And for this Canadian team, this is at home in hockey crazy Canada. They are one of the few and proud to bring Canada home the gold and they did so with national pride where it matters. There will never in their careers be a victory bigger than this one, ever. This is quite literally the pinnacle of their careers though many will still go on to continue playing the game they love for many years more.

Damn straight they partied and we should be glad they didn’t decide to strip naked and piss on an American flag given hockey’s long tradition of rambunctiousness and the sheer monumental weight of this victory. Especially considering the ill fate of the men’s team to an American team not long before.

This response is transparently about shaming them for being unfeminine. If they were drinking martinis out of little glasses and giggling, there’d be no outcry. They backlash is entirely about the swigging straight from the bottle and the cigars. It is “how dare they be masculine”, gender essentialism at its most blatant and it’s getting tired seeing the sports world continue being dragged around on bullshit witch hunt after bullshit witch hunt as it at the same goddamn time continually turns a blind eye to the numerous rapes, wife-beatings/murders, animal-abuses, child-abuses, and steroid abuses that have continued to be the real tarnish.

Also fuck the IOC. I love the games, but I’d love to see every last one of those septugenarian white men shot out of a cannon into the sun.

Comment #45: Cerberus  on  02/27  at  10:23 PM

The “what if they were men?” line was the first in my head. The IOC still has a Victorian-era morality (and hypocrisy), and women’s ice hockey was a late and begrudging arrival at the Olympics.

(FWIW, the team showed up in the CTV studios later, and one of the team members brought her two kids along, who appeared to be remarkably undamaged by it all.)

Still, smoking in public venues is very not B.C., regardless of your sex.

Comment #46: pseudonymous in nc  on  02/27  at  10:32 PM

Smoking tobacco in public venues isn’t very B.C….

Comment #47: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  02/27  at  10:41 PM

If they were drinking martinis out of little glasses and giggling, there’d be no outcry.

I think there’d be _less_ outcry, but still _some_ outcry, from the organizers.*  I don’t think the people who run the Olympics approve of alcohol, because they have a priggish view of how An Olympic Athlete is supposed to comport herself _or_ himself.  Alcohol-fueled celebrations are normal in sports _but not at the Olympics_, at least in my recollection. 

When did they finally get smart about the need for condoms in the Olympic Village?

* Outcry from the public is a separate issue.  _Has_ there been outcry from the public on this?

Comment #48: FlipYrWhig  on  02/27  at  10:47 PM

Ms Kate, doesn’t surprise me in the least.
Secondhand smoke gave my brother and me headaches when we were kids—there was no way we’d deliberately try it. You’d need to have a certain degree of tolerance for the drug to put up with it.
I didn’t develop asthma until I was an adult, and had long term mold exposure over-sensitize me, though, so I know what it’s like to go from healthy to unhealthy lungs.

Comment #49: Samantha Vimes  on  02/27  at  10:54 PM

When did they finally get smart about the need for condoms in the Olympic Village?

I’m not sure when exactly that started, but I’m aware of the IOC distributing free condoms to the athletes in the Olympic Village as far back as the Sidney Games in 2000.

Comment #50: DTG in STL  on  02/27  at  11:11 PM

Cerebus, I also find it interersting that some of their staunchest defenders in this “cuntroversy” are old-line hard-charging hockey playing guys who all say “that’s how they’re supposed to celebrate!”.

Comment #51: Ms Kate  on  02/27  at  11:15 PM

Incidentally, the Vancouver Games received an intial shipment of 100,000 condoms - which ran out after the first week.  They had to request an emergency second order for the second week.  I guess Olympic athletes really, really like getting their freak on.

Comment #52: DTG in STL  on  02/27  at  11:28 PM

Not to be a bitch, but I don’t really appreciate MS’s comments. I’ve had people in my family have their lives “cut short” due to smoking too. Every single person in the world who smokes knows the consequences and smoke anyway. It’s their choice. You want to start saying to other people that you know better than they do how to run their lives? You want to start making their choices for them? Everyone does things all the time that other people see as questionable. If my relative wants to cut a few years off their life, then more power to them! It’s their damn choice. The key point is whether or not they are harming others. So, yeah, maybe one can make a second-hand smoke argument. Other than that, you are on thin ice. And seriously, concern trolling about cigars? I’m betting the damage to these women’s lungs from the amount of cigars they smoke in their life (which when done right, if i recall correctly, doesn’t involve much inhaling) pales compared to the amount of car exhaust damage their lungs will take.

And then you turn it back on the women again when you say: “really wish people in prominent public positions—role models whether they signed up for that or not—wouldn’t smoke in such public venues.” Basically doing the same damn thing the OP is criticizing others for doing. Way to shame these women for doing something that is basically harmless. This stupid role model discourse needs to be toned down. Some famous people are not good role models. Some are. The more we buy into the “perfect role model” shtick, the more we contribute to a way of thinking that can shame anyone we want for any stupid thing we think “people shouldn’t do.” Everyone is thus potentially a role-model for anyone else, because it can be turned very quickly to “what will people think?” It also diminishes the discourse that people can responsibly choose good role models, and to decide that some of what they do is not cool while we still admire them. Furthermore, this throws in the back door the idea that any famous person is necessarily a role model. “Paris shows her cooch to paparazzi, so I can too” becomes much more valid if we keep thinking that she is a damn role model. Sociologically speaking, maybe we are conflating role-modelling with celebrity worship with the 15 minutes of fame. No one is perfect, especially not our role-models and heroes. The sooner we get this through our heads the sooner we realize that we too can become heroes. Gandhi was a douche, and Mother Theressa was colonialist swine. Doesn’t mean they aren’t worthy of respect and admiration for those things they did well.

You don’t know these women. You don’t know their histories. They are not doing anything wrong. And yet you are calling to constrain their behavior because it doesn’t sit with your life experiences. People have different experiences and should be able to make different choices—even ones you disagree with. Get over it. Let them party like they damn well please.

Comment #53: Dharmaserf  on  02/28  at  12:01 AM

And why don’t we put the “blame” for this incident where it belongs - on the idiot using the camera on what was a private celebration?  It isn’t as if this type of behavior didn’t happen in the past, just that the media wasn’t every goddam asshole with a cellphone and internet connection, and that those who were in the media exercised a bit of discretion and judgment.

Comment #54: phylosopher  on  02/28  at  12:22 AM

It’s not the AP photographer’s fault. AFAIK, he was credentialed press and had every right to be in the building. He captured some of the most compelling images of the 2010 Olympics. It’s only because we live in a bizarre, uptight society that these pictures were considered to be scandalous. I would fault his editors for running the photographs without making it absolutely clear that this was an after-hours party that happened after the fans had left the stadium.

Comment #55: Lindsay Beyerstein  on  02/28  at  12:46 AM

Where’s AnOuthouse on all this?  Women holding cigars will most certainly sexually excite Teh Clenis!

Comment #56: Ms Kate  on  02/28  at  12:48 AM

Jeez,  I didn’t say they didn’t have a right to party, in whatever manner they please.  Of course they do.  I just said that I personally WISH people—all people, male, female, actors, musicians, politicians, whatever—in the public spotlight wouldn’t do things that make smoking seem appealing, cool or glamorous.  That’s the extent of my remark.  I didn’t say they don’t have a right to do what they wish; I didn’t say they are bad people.  And I know athletes don’t necessarily sign up to be role models.

I repeat, I think that the uproar is ridiculous, and absolutely they should not have been made to apologize.  If there hadn’t been a thread about this I certainly wouldn’t have started one (of course it’s not my blog to start threads on, but I think you get what I mean), but since there was one I expressed an opinion, with lots of qualifiers attached, and an admission up front that I might be overreacting due to personal circumstances.

Comment #57: MS  on  02/28  at  01:36 AM

A poster above mentioned how women Olympians are often handicapped - after the tragic death of one of the athletes, the decision came to shorten the starts on the luge track. So what happened? The men got moved to the women’s starting position… and then the women got moved to the junior women’s starting position. Because apparently you can’t have men and women starting from the same point or anything. What if the women beat their time?

Comment #58: wondering  on  02/28  at  02:18 AM

The commentators on Australia’s Channel 9 were discussing this today, and the racist, homophobic commentator (Eddie something, I think? I don’t know these people by sight yet) that made cracks about Johnny Weir came right out and said that women shouldn’t be allowed to celebrate like men, that there are different standards women have to abide by.  The woman sitting right next to him was speechless.  He also said, of the picture of the women smoking cigars, that “they couldn’t possibly be enjoying that cigar”.  He cannot wrap his head around the fact that women and men can like, and do, the same things. It is mind-boggling that this guy is still allowed on the tv.

Comment #59: Cornpone Down Under  on  02/28  at  02:27 AM

It is mind-boggling that this guy is still allowed on the tv.

Here in the States, he’d be given his own show on Fox, at the very least.

Comment #60: Captain Bathrobe  on  02/28  at  02:42 AM

1.  The photos are awesome.
2.  The would have been more awesome if they had been smoking BC bud.
3.  It doesn’t matter that the legal age to drink is 18 in other parts of Canada. It’s 19 in B.C.
4.  The really offensive thing is that there are separate events for men and women.  Why not just have luge, hockey, skating, etc?  Not only does it get rid of the Caster Semenya type controversies, it also treats women as legit equals.

Comment #61: Seth  on  02/28  at  03:13 AM

The only place in Canada where 19 is legal drinking age is Quebec.  It’s 19 everywhere else.

That aside, the feeling I get from most Canadians is “Who gives a shit?”

The other sentiment was the rumbling that if the IOC tried to pull some crap about this, they’d be lucky to get out of the country alive.

As for the dearly beloved IOC chair and his problem with women’s hockey, the Finnish and Swedish teams (who played for bronze) have had some pointed comments regarding his dismissal of their own efforts.  One of the coaches pointed out that the IOC didn’t say jack shit decades ago when it was Canada and the USSR dominating (men’s) hockey with everyone else as an also-ran.  Fact is, there are tens of thousands of female hockey players in North America, with bigger budgets.  With that huge pool of potential talent, comparatively speaking, of course the two countries will dominate for the time being.

Comment #62: KeithM  on  02/28  at  03:31 AM

@59, Eddie McGuire has annoyed the crap out of me for years, I’m not too surprised to hear that kind of dribble coming out of his mouth, he is the host of the footy show after all.

Comment #63: Leah Jaclyn  on  02/28  at  03:57 AM

As a former female hockey player, I would just like to say that their behavior was completely tame. This kind of celebration is expected by everybody who isn’t a total killjoy fuckstick. The other double-standard regarding womens hockey that you may not know about is that women cannot check but men can. It was a big surprise for me to learn that I was considered a delicate flower that couldn’t get physical on the ice when I switched from boys hockey to girls hockey in high school.

Comment #64: Entomologista  on  02/28  at  04:19 AM

Not that anyone’s likely to see this, but for what it’s worth…

I don’t know how much of the blowback against this team was because they’re female, but after the episode with Scotty Lago, I’m not so sure you wouldn’t see much the same reaction if relatively anonymous men (that is, not the NHL players) did the same thing.  The IOC is seriously uptight about this kind of behavior, and the observation from this chair is that they’ll lay the wood to anyone they perceive as a target soft enough for them to get away with it.  Other evidence of sexism (e.g. women’s ski jumping) is much clearer; hell, I’d say the fact women can’t hit each other in hockey is a lot more sexist than the beef over this celebration.

For the record, though, the Canadian Olympic Committee basically told the IOC to take a walk.  So while the complaints were bogus, the team didn’t get completely hung out to dry.

Comment #65: Spiffy McBang  on  02/28  at  05:55 AM

I see nothing even remotely wrong here.

OK, well, the cigars are kinda nasty, but understandable.

But not wrong.

Comment #66: BrianX  on  02/28  at  06:00 AM

Entomologista, I was aware of the no checking and think it sucks.  I considered hockey but ended up in rugby instead precisely b/c rugby doesn’t treat women differently wrt to hitting.  (If I couldn’t hit people, what would be the point?!)  It’s the same with softball—let’s give the players with smaller hands (on average) a bigger ball to play with!  Oh, and bigger equals slower so the ladeez won’t be hurtz.  And with lacrosse.  And with sliding sports.  And curling!  WhyTF isn’t curling coed?  Da menz couldn’t handle being outswept by da wimminz?  I anxiously await the FIS ruling that women can no longer use men’s skis (not that it was an inarguable advantage to Vonn). 

7s rugby just got into the Olympics.  I can’t wait to see what the IRB will do with the inevitable IOC squeamishness over having the women’s rules be exactly the same as the men’s. 

The most “equal” Olympic sports, IMO, are the equestrian events.  But you have to be stinking rich to afford a lifetime of lessons and a Dutch warmblood, so it’s out of the reach of most women due to class factors. 

Sorry for the rant.  It’s just fucking ridiculous.  I wish I could find an email contact that goes directly to the Canadian women’s team (all I found are contacts for the Canadian Olympic Committee), b/c I so want to write them to show my support.  Fucking celebrate, you women.  You fucking earned it.

Comment #67: bomberE  on  02/28  at  11:53 AM

And yes, anyone who thought their behavior is outrageous shouldn’t ever attend a rugby (or apparently non-Olympic hockey) afterparty.  Or hell, any afterparty for any sport.  My only objection is that they were drinking Molson.  But shit beer is pretty much a pre-requisite for this sort of thing.

Comment #68: bomberE  on  02/28  at  11:56 AM

I don’t know how much of the blowback against this team was because they’re female, but after the episode with Scotty Lago, I’m not so sure you wouldn’t see much the same reaction if relatively anonymous men (that is, not the NHL players) did the same thing.  The IOC is seriously uptight about this kind of behavior, and the observation from this chair is that they’ll lay the wood to anyone they perceive as a target soft enough for them to get away with it….

Comment #65: Spiffy McBang on 02/28 at 03:55 AM

Yes.  Couple that with a major push in hockey (from USAHockey mite up through the NHL) to make hockey less violent in order to attract more fans (perception on their part is more female fans) and players.  Lots of more zero tolerance policies, tough but ambiguous rules, parent policing, for a while the networks even stopped showing replays of fights. 

There were some legitimate reasons for it - heavy, acknowledged and publicized alcohol and cocaine/amphetamine use leading to illegal behavior both on and off the ice.  The hockey bureaucracy simply can’t be seen condoning it.

Comment #69: phylosopher  on  02/28  at  01:08 PM

Ahh, I see there is a bit of the same attitude in some parts of Canada - and yes, I know they weren’t driving, though some reports claim the did operate the Zamboni.  That sounds silly, but the Zamboni is a piece of heavy equipment with shit for sightlines.  Great headline - Female Ice HOckey player run over by teammate operating Zam under the influence.  Anyway, here’s some more, not just the wimmenz getting the role model! treatment:
http://www.sevenoaksmag.com/features/stopsmirkingbettman.html

Comment #70: phylosopher  on  02/28  at  01:58 PM

Although their gender probably increased the size of the public outcry, it’s not the determining factor. It’s that they did it on the ice. As many above have mentioned, the IOC still stick to a highly marketable idea of the olympic ideal, where fair play and decency are meant to sacrosant. If the Candian ice hockey players had been photgraphed doing all this in a bar downtown hardly anyone would have battered an eyelid, but the fact they went back on to the ice - the playing field - to smoke cigars, drink and commandeer the ice surfacing machine in front of the press looks a lot like public gloating. And that doesn’t go down well.

It’s also worth examining it from a drinking/smoking view too and noting that while it’s cheered on to some extent in male sports its done so with an unspoken acknowledgment that there are limits which mustn’t be transgressed. Public smoking, in the current hysterical atmosphere, is one of them, as is anything seen to be embarrassing alcohol-fuelled exuberance, which the zamboni incident can certainly be framed as.

Comment #71: Stubborn Kind of Fellow  on  02/28  at  02:50 PM

End that first paragraph “because they are women” and you have it, stubborn kof!

Also, I remember my whole reaction to Brandi Chastain’s sport bra was “gee whiz - more fabric there than in an entire decade of SI Swimsuit Issue swimsuits!”.

Comment #72: Ms Kate  on  02/28  at  03:27 PM

The real scandal here is that at least one of the players was clearly drinking Coors Lite.

Comment #73: Pesto  on  02/28  at  03:43 PM

I admit I had never really seen the Brandi Chastain pics before, and now that I have, I’m trying to figure out the issue with that. Because I’ve seen cheerleading outfits with less fabric. And I myself have skibbled around national parks and whatnot with my own shirt off, in a sports bra that covered more than many bikinis, and nobody freaked out or hid their children’s eyes from my (then: very small) boobs.

Comment #74: PixelFish  on  02/28  at  04:20 PM

What it made me think of is stories I’ve heard from elderly African Americans about how circumspect they had to be about celebrating Joe Louis’s victories if white people were around.

Comment #75: Dr. Psycho  on  02/28  at  07:39 PM

Speaking of Olympic ice hockey, the U.S. men’s team just tied the Canadiens 2-2 with 24 seconds left in regulation time… this one is gonna be a nailbiter.

Comment #76: DTG in STL  on  02/28  at  07:43 PM

MS said:

“Jeez, I didn’t say they didn’t have a right to party, in whatever manner they please.  Of course they do.  I just said that I personally WISH people—all people, male, female, actors, musicians, politicians, whatever—in the public spotlight wouldn’t do things that make smoking seem appealing, cool or glamorous.”

Ok. That I can understand. I was probably reading too much into the discussion that was going on, and I have to admit I was getting a little hot under the collar. Thanks for the clarification.

Comment #77: Dharmaserf  on  02/28  at  08:15 PM

#73 Pesto

I think you nailed it.

Comment #78: Dharmaserf  on  02/28  at  08:22 PM

Coors is awful beer, but it does have a Canadian connection - it is brewed by Molson-Coors, the merged Canadian-American company with joint headquarters in Montreal and Denver.  But the Coors family is a bunch of rightwing assholes.

Comment #79: DTG in STL  on  02/28  at  09:22 PM

Men do not get the same treatment. Baseball players´ calling their shots or kissing their bats is hardly humble, but whither the criticism of them?

Comment #80: Luke  on  02/28  at  10:24 PM

The real scandal here is that at least one of the players was clearly drinking Coors Lite

For shame!

Anyway, Canada won in men’s hockey as well and we just got the all time record for most gold medals won at a Winter Olympics. So this curmudgeon anarchist has had about 10 minutes worth of patriotism this week, which is highly irregular. I’ll need to do some penance.

Comment #81: BlackBloc  on  03/01  at  01:53 AM

Dharmaserf @ 77.  Thanks.  I’m not sure I was totally clear at first, and it’s a subject I’m particularly invested in, emotionally, so I have been known to overreact…

Comment #82: MS  on  03/01  at  09:48 AM

charles barkley was right, when he opined that athletes shouldn’t be role models for children, their parents should be.

considering the overall poor job the IOC does, they have no business castigating anyone for their behaviour, least of all these ladies, who actually accomplished something. i have yet to see any concern raised regarding plushenko’s crass comments, since he lost the gold to lysacheck, hardly a good role model for the kiddies.

Comment #83: cpinva  on  03/01  at  11:03 AM

The other issue is that apparently Vonn and Mancuso aren’t buddy-buddy and its terrible that in a sport that’s entirely an individual endevour that these two are rivals!

Comment #84: Robert  on  03/01  at  04:04 PM

If I were a female Canadian Olympic hockey player, I’d quote Chase Utley of the Philiadelphia Philles, who once said—into a hot mic, in front of 50,000 people, between puffs on a cigar and slugs off a champagne bottle—three simple words: “World. FUCKING. Champions!!!”  The ultimate FU to any and all naysayers: “Check the scoreboard bitches, now we’re gonna party!”

Comment #85: Hornet  on  03/01  at  04:48 PM

100% win for Amanda.  Well said.

And congratulations to the Canadian hockey teams, men’s and women’s both.

Comment #86: liberalrob  on  03/01  at  05:20 PM

Congratulations to the Canadians, I think that’s retarded as hell that they had to apologize for the way they celebrated.  I can garantee (yes I know I spelled it wrong, sue me,) that were it any of the women I know, we probably would have celebrated with beer and karaoke. But then again, we’re a bunch of rednecks lol.

Comment #87: PoisonRose  on  03/02  at  02:07 AM

@PoisonRose no ableist language, plz.

Comment #88: Rebecca  on  03/02  at  04:28 AM

Rumor has it that IOC President Jacque Rogge is being pretty forthright in his statements that women’s ice hockey may be eliminated from future games

Damn, because:

The other double-standard regarding womens hockey that you may not know about is that women cannot check but men can. It was a big surprise for me to learn that I was considered a delicate flower that couldn’t get physical on the ice when I switched from boys hockey to girls hockey in high school.

As a spectator, I actually think the no-checking rule makes for a better game (to watch). There seems to be a better flow to it, rather than just a constant stream of guys getting slammed into the boards. If I wanted that, I’d watch wrestling. I watched both the hockey finals, but I thought the women’s game was better.

Comment #89: Dunc  on  03/02  at  11:19 AM

The IOC are the biggest bunch of no-fun hardasses on Earth, just ahead of FIFA and the NFL.  They came down on them because they’re women, but now they’ll come down on everyone next time just to show everyone who’s boss.  There was a bit of concern-trolling from the punditry about the Canadian women “representing their country in a better way”, which the Canadian Olympic Committee didn’t seem to care about.

In North American team sports, on-field celebrations are the norm for the NHL.  Other leagues started following suit after the 1994 NBA Finals (the Houston Rockets wanted to celebrate on the court in front of the home fans).  The Phillies partied on the field in 2008 after winning the World Series and sprayed their fans with champagne while smoking cigars.  So I think we all know the difference here.

And the thing about Chastain that was troublesome at the time was that it came off as contrived.  She was wearing Nike’s new sports bra and it came off like another Nike PR move by a Nike athlete.  But I expect all Nike athletes to put the brand above everything else (like Jordan did).  It’s my Nike cynicism.

Comment #90: bouj  on  03/02  at  01:07 PM

As a spectator, I actually think the no-checking rule makes for a better game (to watch). There seems to be a better flow to it, rather than just a constant stream of guys getting slammed into the boards. If I wanted that, I’d watch wrestling. I watched both the hockey finals, but I thought the women’s game was better.
Comment #89: Dunc on 03/02 at 09:19 AM

Much prefer the strategy of the check game.  The balance of worthwhile penalty to enforce the play of the elite players and gooning it up with a stupid penalty.

Comment #91: phylosopher  on  03/02  at  03:34 PM
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