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Next entry: Justice Department files lawsuit against Arizona Previous entry: The Whitest Columnist U Know

One major under-discussed environmental danger

I worry that this interview with author Stan Cox about his book Losing Our Cool: Uncomfortable Truths About Our Air-Conditioned World (and Finding New Ways to Get Through the Summer) might not get through to people. And the reason is that Cox drifts a little too far into the sanctimonious zone about air conditioning, talking about how he never, ever uses it if he’s in control, and focusing his energies on talking about people who’ve given up on air conditioning, even when they live in super hot climates.  And doing that thing people do, where they drift off into refusing to admit there could ever be any value to the thing they’re trying to get people to give up, like how he gets into scientifically iffy territory of suggesting that people would have fewer allergies if they didn’t use A/C and got out more.  (I suspect the rise in allergic people compared to the past has more to do with the fact that we can keep them alive now, whereas in the past they would have died from the flu or tuberculosis at a young age.) When it comes to environmentalism, there’s a real danger in taking an absolutist position, which is that people will tune you out completely, since they find that impossible.

Which is too bad, because on the whole, Cox is right.  Air conditioning is one of the great environmental disasters of our time.  It’s way overused, and to make it worse, it allowed people to build bigger houses and public buildings on the grounds that they could cool them off pretty easily, and it discouraged the use of more energy efficient ways to cool off your home.  It’s created cultural acclimation of the sort where people will never accept anything less than air conditioning, even when opening a window would actually be just as good.  Believe me, I know.  This has been the ongoing war of my adult life.  I grew up in the Southwest—-interestingly, my family’s migration there has a lot to do with the problem of allergies and the attempts to avoid them rather than die of respiratory illness—-and out there, they don’t really use the same kind of air conditioning that you see in many places.  (Though that’s changing rapidly—-air conditioning is such a status symbol that it’s being installed even where it’s not necessary.)  We had evaporation cooling in most homes, which isn’t something that works as well in more humid environments.  Subsequently, when I moved to Austin and started to have to live with for-real air conditioning, I hated it.  I still hate it.  I like cooling off in the A/C, due to being human, and I’ll run it rather than sit around sweating.  But I’ve always been one of those people who waits until the last possible minute to flick it on, and then I sigh sadly, because I don’t look forward to having all the natural humidity in the air and my nostrils sucked out.  As you can imagine, the vast majority of people I encounter disagree strongly with this strategy.  I can have some effect on choosing windows and fans over A/C, but the compromise position always falls short of my “wait until there’s no other possible way to get the temperature below 90” strategy that I employed when I lived alone. 

Because of all this, I think that a much better strategy for dramatically reducing A/C use is to avoid the cold turkey arguments, and start talking about how to remake our culture so A/C is a last, not first, ditch effort.  From my war on A/C, I’d say that in many places, you could cut it by 70% with a few small adjustments to our cultural expectations of what temperature a room should be, and by getting people to consider taking many steps to cool off before resorting to the A/C, such as wearing fewer clothes at home, opening windows, using fans, building in places where there’s shade, drawing curtains, shutting doors to rooms you’re not using instead of air conditioning the whole house, etc.*  Right now, for instance, I’m looking into buying some boxer shorts to wear around the house instead of the pajama pants I usually wear.  That will buy me at least an hour or two more a day where I don’t resort to the A/C.  I do think there’s value to pointing out the physical discomforts of A/C, but this process is going to take a lot of hand-holding.  The belief that every place should have A/C on at full blast has just become so ingrained, as only someone who gets super cold and uncomfortable in full blast A/C (ahem) can really tell you.


Absolutists have a role.  They can show us that other ways are possible, and we can then meet them half way.  But sometimes they take it too far, like vegans who refuse to eat honey, even though the reduction in honey consumption actually means fewer, not more bees and gets us deeper into the bee shortage crisis.  But going completely without A/C probably isn’t going to happen.  Instead, I’m thinking an approach a little more like this one, modeled by Graham Hill on the topic of vegetarianism, is a good one.

Basically, he’s saying that it would work just as well to get 100 people to cut their meat consumption by 50% as to have 50 people go full vegetarian.  And let’s face it; it’s probably easier to get 100 people to reduce by 50% than to get 50 people to give up meat entirely.

A/C can work the same way.  Eliminating isn’t going to happen, but it’s easy enough, in my experience, to convince people to delay turning it on and to set it at a much higher temperature than we’re used to.  And for this, I want to offer a summertime challenge.  I challenge everyone out there in blog reading land to come up with a bunch of different ways they can cool off without turning the A/C temperature down to 68, 70, or 72.  I’m starting by switching from pajama bottoms to boxer shorts and a tank top, and only wearing for-real clothes when I’m leaving the house.  I’m also turning off the lights in the house during the day, which adds heat to the house, and only running A/C in rooms being used.  Suggestions on how to keep cool without just blasting the air are welcome!

*I will say this is one more reason NYC is a place after my own heart.  Unlike in most other places I’ve been, New Yorkers make it a point of cultural pride to put off running the A/C as long as humanly possible, and are big fans of the open window.  I’ve definitely known some homes where a window hasn’t been opened in years, even though they may have six months of perfect weather.  This isn’t true in New York.  They will do anything to avoid turning on the air.  I love it.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:26 AM • (285) Comments

I am not totally sure AC doesn’t contribute to allergies.  I worledd in a climate controlled lab for a while and it seemed like my nose was always running or bleeding when I transferred to an outdoor field station most my problems(at least related to my breathing went away)

getting people to give up AC for the good of the planet is probably not going to happen.  Even here in Denver where it doesn’t get that hot most people seem to have and use central air pretty much all the time.

Comment #1: John Rove  on  07/06  at  11:43 AM

When we were kids, we lived in an non-A/C house in Austin. I barely remember it now, but my mom remembers it being pretty spectacularly agonizing, even though they saved metric buttloads on energy costs. And the two weeks I spent in a non-A/C dorm in Denton, TX in August were about the most unpleasant weeks I spent anywhere—I took three or four ice-cold showers every day, just so I could keep functioning.

Having said that, I leave my A/C in my apartment off overnight and when I go to work, only switching it on when I get home in the evening. Not sure how I’d like things without air conditioning anywhere, though…

Comment #2: Scott  on  07/06  at  11:47 AM

He makes an excellent point about offices.  Why is it that the hot ones always seem to win the thermostat wars though?  In my building my personal office is freezing to the point that a sweater doesn’t cut it.  My feet freeze because of course, since it’s in the 90’s outside, I wear open toed sandals.  I was shivering all of the time.  I finally inquired about it and discovered that we’ve “got a couple of big guys in this building” who insisted the air be set on 68.

Well, it’s now on 72 and it stays there, but that was a war.  I know this goes on in offices all over, and I know that often the cold people don’t win the battles, because I’ve lost them many times in the past when I was much farther down on the totem pole.

I already wear very little around the house to avoid turing on the air conditioning until I absolutely have to.  But then, I am a NY’er too.  smile

Comment #3: JennyLI  on  07/06  at  11:49 AM

I keep my home AC at 20°F below the ambient temperature, or 79°F, whichever is higher. I walk around the house naked if we have no house guests, and in a loose jersey dress if we do. We have curtains that, theoretically, block some of the heat from our south-facing windows. And still I would say our air conditioner runs for 15 minutes every hour. Honestly, it is a financial concern for me - I can’t afford a $150 energy bill every month of the summer.

In San Antonio it’s gotta be almost impossible to run residential air conditioners below 75°F in the summer-time - people would be locking up their air conditioner coils left and right. Heck, maybe they are…

Comment #4: Sarah TX  on  07/06  at  11:50 AM

John, I have bad allergies to grass and trees, and experienced the exact opposite of what you did. Being outside makes my allergies go bonkers, and being inside with A/C tames them. That said I wonder if you were getting nasal issues due to the anti-humidity factor that Amanda mentioned. A/C can make the humidity very low.

Comment #5: atheist  on  07/06  at  11:51 AM

I realized that my life was creeping me further and further south, and I’m not a lizard, I’m a polar bear. So summertime in Philly, I was running the A/C from May through September, which was unacceptable. So I moved north.

Of course, we’re still in the 90s this week and it would be nice to have an A/C, but I can suffer for a week or two and come out the better for it. Mostly I just need it to cool off at night.

Today, for example, the heat is up in the 90s with as much humidity, and I’m hanging out in my Man-Sarong. A friend from Malaysia brought some back for me. They’re sold in these little green bricks—I don’t even think that you know what color you’re getting when you buy them. But it’s basically a huge tube of light linen. As a woman, I hike it up to my armpits (men just need to hit the navel), then fold the extra in across my chest and roll the top down a little bit. Because I’m not perfect at creating the permanent snug, I usually use a binder clip to keep the stuff from coming unraveled as I’m going up and down the stairs. It’s not the most flattering piece of couture, but it keeps the air moving.

One thing that really bothered me about Philadelphia was that it seemed like all of the businesses needed to live in defiance of the season. It’s impossible to dress for walking around downtown, because if you dress for the 90F summers, then you go into a store and it’s 62 indoors because they have to show off, and then in the winter you bundle up to deal with the 35 degrees with cutting winds and you go into a store and it’s 85. It’s ridiculous.

Comment #6: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/06  at  11:51 AM

We’re signed up for real-time energy pricing, and it really has changed our a/c usage.  Since summertime prices are lowest overnight and highest in the afternoon, we crank up the a/c overnight on those suffocatingly hot days and never have it on in the afternoon and early evening.  A ceiling fan in the bedroom increases the number of nights where we just turn off the a/c and open the window, which is loads more pleasant.

Comment #7: RP  on  07/06  at  11:55 AM

I hate A/C. Not for the environmental reasons or anything like that, although they do suck. I hate the feel of it.

Comment #8: Karmakin  on  07/06  at  11:56 AM

Speaking as someone who is currently running a single window unit AC to cool an entire house while soliciting estimates to replace a defunct central AC, I like your approach.  I’d be happy to go without AC altogether, but I work at home and with temperature expected to hit 100 today, I just can’t.

What I can do is open the windows at night when it cools off, and set the thermostat to 82 once we get the new central AC (which will definitely be high efficiency) installed.  We also insulated our attic and installed new energy efficient windows and doors in January.

Comment #9: xebecs  on  07/06  at  11:56 AM

I grew up without AC. In Egypt. Strangely, it was pretty pleasant, because the house was constructed in such a way that there were a lot of cross-breezes and suchlinke. The windows were constantly open.

So, my default is no AC. I had several summers in Chicago without. But this is my first DC summer, and without AC, it’s really kind of horrible. We’re holding out, but this heat wave might make me break (it’s supposed to get up to 102 today) and buy one.

The one thing I haven’t figured out what to do with is my evenings. Mornings are fine, during the day I’m at work, and sleeping is fine because of the cold shower + fan treatment. But from about 7-11 pm, just sitting around, trying to cook (god, we need to buy a grill), and get things done? It just sucks. I’m already wearing minimum clothing. Leaving the lights off, which I just discovered in the past few days, really helps. Any other ideas, people?

The physical discomforts of AC are real, though. I was in Chicago last weekend staying at a friend’s place and it was super-conditioned. I woke up with a headache and a sore throat, feeling like I was getting sick. Definitely not used to that.

Comment #10: m_leblanc  on  07/06  at  11:57 AM

The “cold ones” win the thermostat wars in my office, AnglScarlett.  We have this fancy new building with attractive windows from floor to ceiling that lets in all this wonderful sunlight.  My department of 20+ people have been corralled in one large room filled with cubicles, and with the close proximity of people and greenhouse affect of the windows, it routinely gets up to 80 plus degrees in here during the summer months.  But if anyone has the temerity to try turning the AC down to 70 degrees it turns into a big struggle with multiple people running back and forth to the thermostat.

The winter is even worse.  My allergies are aggravated by the dust kicked up through the heating vents so there are many days when I can’t breathe, but of course that heat’s gotta be set to 75 you know.  Yes, I’m bitter.  smile

Comment #11: Blitzgal  on  07/06  at  11:58 AM

I moved in April, and my new place has three air conditioners—in the basement storage space. I have no intention of installing any of them. I loathe air conditioning (and I live in Chicago, which gets hot and humid, but not Texas hot/humid), and I have found that there’s maybe three or four nights in a summer that are really awful without it. But if you clog up a window with an air conditioner, you have to resort to it more often, because you don’t get any breezes or anything like that. It’s my first summer in this place, so we’ll see what it’s like, but so far there’s a lot of cross-ventilation (old buildings are great that way).

That said, in a previous apartment, we couldn’t remove the air conditioners, but they didn’t take up much window space, and we only turned them on when my ex’s mother (who had COPD) came to visit; a couple of times she was visiting during a major heat wave, and it really would have been a threat to her health to not have it on.

When I had to visit Texas on business (about 10 years ago), the first thing I’d do when I checked in was turn the air conditioning down in my hotel room. In April it was already set at frigid levels.

Comment #12: Narya  on  07/06  at  12:00 PM

Yes AnglScarlett, the hot ones do always seem to win. Except today when the powers that be decided that it’s so hot (94 degrees and climbing), we actually have to use the a/c LESS than we did last week when it was only 80 degrees. Can’t figure out what kind of twisted logic brought them to that conclusion, but at least it doesn’t feel like a morgue at work today.

My own version of using less a/c may involve a tidbit of privilege. I turn it on when I get home from work to cool the place down. Then when it is super hot (like today), I go downstairs and sit in the pool. I drip dry and go back in the house while still quite damp, turn off the a/c and manage to remain cool for a few hours after that.

Comment #13: DC Fem  on  07/06  at  12:03 PM

We use AC at night, only.  I only started using AC when my husband was recovering from heart surgery in July.  I am also asthmatic and sensitive to ozone, which peaks at night around here because of Amanda and 10,000,000 of her close friends in NYC and their activities during the day.  AC use reduces indoor ozone levels dramatically.  I have a basement room, so AC also removes moisture and prevents mold, and it also doesn’t take much to keep it cool.  We bought a unit for my son’s room from MA Jeff when he moved ... but my teen now has to share his room with his brother to be allowed to use it.  All bedrooms in my house are in cool sheltered zones.

On the other hand, I did just fine in Seattle in a hotel without AC.  I loved it, actually. I object to excessive AC use, and love openable windows.  There are limits for people with health conditions, there are good reasons to use AC to remove pollution issues (I have filed a formal compaint against my kids school system for not using the AC in buildings designed for it in schools near the freeway and a jerkass superintendent who ignores medical and scientific facts) as well as simple safety issues with not being able to sleep.

Comment #14: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  12:05 PM

Atheist:
after I wrote that I got to thinking of some of the other factors, specicaly being inside with a bunch of furry animals probably makes it a bad comparison. 

a while back they used to talk about “sick buildings” I wonder if their is anything to that.

Comment #15: John Rove  on  07/06  at  12:06 PM

I lived in LA for four years, and never once needed air conditioning… it was dry enough that if you turned on enough fans and opened some windows, things would evaporate nicely for all but a few rare humid days out of the year.

But now that I live in DC, I’ve found that A/C is necessary for my sleep. I was born and raised in the upper Midwest. no matter how exhausted I am, I just can’t sleep when it’s hot and sticky at night. Daytime I don’t care about, but I have to be cool at night.

So I compromised. I have a window unit that cools my room at night, and I just crank it when I’m in bed, and have it off during the day.

My conscience tradeoff is that (being a hearty Midwesterner) I don’t ever turn on the heat in the winter, unless there’s a risk of the pipes freezing. It gets down into the 50s in the house, but that’s just a reason to layer more. (My philosophy: You can always put more clothes on to warm up, but once you’re down to your skivvies, it’s impossible to take more off to cool down.)

Comment #16: James G. Gilmore  on  07/06  at  12:07 PM

In my building my personal office is freezing to the point that a sweater doesn’t cut it. 

I used to sit around at lunch with an Aussie friend who would grumble at all the wool-suited boneheads “It’s 30 degrees out mate ... only one other animal wanders around the full year with wool on its back!”

Comment #17: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  12:08 PM

Note: it was already 84F with 75% RH when I got up at 7am.  I used to deal with 110F days in the Eastern Oregon Deserts - but it would drop into the 60s by bedtime!  Nighttime temp drops make a huge difference.

Comment #18: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  12:12 PM

City living is tough because the buildings absorb heat and give it off slowly while blocking breezes as well. The worst is when your bedroom is right next to the neighbor’s A/Cheat exchanger.

Trees help the most for keeping one and even two story buildings cool. Having openable windows on all four sides is a godsend. Use awnings and slatted shades on the south and west sides of your place. Try a dehumidifier in humid climates: My Michigan grandparents would retreat to their dehumidified basement in the summers—it was pleasant although they never had airconditioning. For places where it cools off at night, run a window fan to suck in the cool night air.

But without air conditioning, the South would still be a backwater. Air conditioning as much as anti-union laws and tax giveaways made it possible to lure Northern factories to the South. Atlanta would still be the sleepy home of Coca-Cola: no Ted Turner, no CNN, certainly no Olympics. The Braves would still be in Milwaukee. And so on.

Comment #19: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  12:13 PM

Speaking of clothing: Polypropylene wicking underwear makes you more comfortable, as does light fabrics like seersucker. And there is such a thing as tropical worsted wool. Don’t try to wear your winter wardrobe in the summer, obviously.

Comment #20: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  12:17 PM

Hector, when I turn onto my street on a hot day, surrounded by the Middlesex Fells on two sides, I feel a rush of cooler air at my feet.  No wonder it doesn’t cost us too much to cool our rooms at night - they are either in the basement or set into the hill on the forest side.

I wonder how many anti-air conditioning zealots (and their “you wouldn’t be sick if you didn’t use AC” woofests) would so readily give up on central heating?

Comment #21: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  12:18 PM

“I’ve always been one of those people who waits until the last possible minute to flick it on, and then I sigh sadly…”

This is me (much to my wife’s chagrin). I’ve never been a big fan of forced air anything, A/C or heat. I grew up in a super humid environment and my dad is a big believer in blasting the A/C all day & night, but I’ve always preferred a fan and open window to A/C. I’ve always thought A/C air smelled funny. I live in Southern California now and there is no humidity at all (relative to where I grew up), so if you can make it through the day, it really cools off at night.

Comment #22: Mark  on  07/06  at  12:24 PM

Does the author propose a solution to the problem of keeping server rooms at a temperature that won’t melt CPUs? Because until we solve that problem, it’s either keep the A/C or get rid of all information technology. Our old office had TWO A/Cs running in the server room, and if just one died that meant huge fans (with the corresponding distracting noise) running and the rest of the office being around 30 Celsius just so you could keep the network running.

The way I see it, the environmental problems are *mostly* corporate problems. Even if all individuals decided to be green (and that’s already a tall order, considering asshole Republicans who do stupid inefficient things just to stick it to liberals) it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the costs that industry and the workplace have on our environment.

Comment #23: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  12:25 PM

Oh sorry blitzgirl!  smile

Comment #24: JennyLI  on  07/06  at  12:26 PM

He makes an excellent point about offices.  Why is it that the hot ones always seem to win the thermostat wars though?

That hasn’t always been my experience. When it has it was probably because I worked around a lot of women having hot flashes (which I considered a godsend, since I’m always hot anyway). If the hot ones are winning, here’s why: ridiculous dress codes that take no notice of the environment you actually live and work in. If you want me to wear a jacket, tie and slacks, or force women to wear hose, then you damn well better turn my office into an ice box. It’s pretty hard to look “professional” when you’re sweating like Meatloaf running a marathon.

This is one of those areas that I don;t think environmentalists will ever celebrate a true win. Yes, you may be able to convince some folks to give it up, but they’re going to be people like Amanda and others here who never liked it in the first place. I would have to move to one of the poles if we ever lost air conditioning. We lived in Connecticut for five years, where practically nothing is air conditioned, and it was the most miserable I’ve ever been.

Comment #25: Egnu Cledge  on  07/06  at  12:27 PM

Well, I guess many of us are experiencing the current heat wave.  I just shake my head when I walk outside and figure I better get used to it.  Sometimes I think, gee, it’s almost as if there’s something to that whole climate change thing?  But then I remember that Al Gore is fat and flies in airplanes so it can’t be.

Comment #26: JennyLI  on  07/06  at  12:28 PM

If the hot ones are winning, here’s why: ridiculous dress codes that take no notice of the environment you actually live and work in.

This. Office culture is terrible. I can’t wear shorts. At least as a coding grunt I don’t need to dress in a jacket when it’s the middle of a heat wave to look ‘professional’, but even with my short sleeved shirt, I lost 2 liters of water just sitting in the bus.

I’ll sympathize with my women coworkers about being forced into high heels and other crap, but at least they get to wear skirts.

Mmmh… wonder what the boss will say if I show up in a kilt?

Comment #27: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  12:35 PM

Out here on the prairie, winters are long and cold and summers can have some sweltering days but have been generally pretty pleasant.  We keep the AC set at 78, which means it doesn’t kick in a lot of the time, and in the winter we let the thermostat drift down to 65.  It saves us a lot of money and we can manage without being too miserable.  A couple of years ago, before I moved here to Minnesota, I realized that I had been spending an enormous amount of time in air-conditioning and just stopped using it so much.  I discovered that I liked feeling hot in the summer.  Not unbearably hot, mind you, but really warm.  I’d forgotten what it was like to really feel the weather.  I like it now.

Comment #28: DBK  on  07/06  at  12:36 PM

I really like the typical New York City solution to the A/C issue.  You have a window unit or two.  When it’s absolutely unrelentingly impossible-to-exist hot, you turn it on.  At all other times of the year (including those borderline hottish days where you know it’s going to cool down by bedtime), it’s turned off. 

A week ago, when the highs were in the upper 70’s and low 80’s, I was fine with the windows open and a fan going in my bedroom.  Right now, though, I’m sitting on the couch in air conditioned splendor, drinking hot tea without a hint of eco-guilt. 

You can have it both ways, people!

Comment #29: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  12:36 PM

#27

Mmmh… wonder what the boss will say if I show up in a kilt?

We had this one coder who would do that from time to time. Of course, he also had long lacquered nails and was a consultant rather than an employee.

Comment #30: atheist  on  07/06  at  12:37 PM

one thing that seems to work, I have a fan that you can put water in the base and it seems to keep a small area cool for a few hours, excellent for nights that it is too hot to get to sleep and I would guess it os far mor efficient than AC.

good thing Gore is fat or we might have to worry about it getting wamer

Comment #31: John Rove  on  07/06  at  12:37 PM

I guess I’m one of the “cold ones” in my office. 

I’m not crazy (73 to 74 is okay, I freeze too when it’s set to 70), but there are some basic issues involved.  The major divide, in my experience, is between men and women, with men tending to like it cooler than women. 

Example:  I function well if the temp is around 72-74 degrees F— wearing, as I’m required to even in SoCal, Inland Empire heat, long-sleeve shirts and often a tie, and weighing these days something north of 230 lbs or so.  In the same temperature I sit next to a lady, all ~90 lbs. of her, who will literally wear a coat while at work in order to keep working. 

I used to work in an office where the thermostat was set to 72 or so and many of the women in the office had (and used) personal electric heaters to keep their feet/legs warm.  So it’s 90 to 105 degrees F outside, the thermostat is set (at great cost) to 72, and they’re running heaters to warm up enough to function.

I’m not singling out women for disdain, just pointing out there seems to be (often) a basic body temperature/tolerance that often comes into play.  And the “cold ones” win for a very simple reason:  You can put on more clothes to keep warm, but I can’t take off any clothes to keep cool.  Not allowed, either by my place of employment or my fellow non-blind coworkers.

And note, I haven’t been in an office with windows that actually open up in years.  And this isn’t high-rise office towers, these are relatively low 1-2-3-story buildings.  So even if it isn’t hot outside, the windows can’t be used to ameliorate the inside temperature.

In contrast, in Hawaii, where the average temperature is something like 80-95 all year, with ~80-100% humidity, they accept wearing short-sleeves, un-tucked shirts, and often shorts instead of long pants, which allows even un-air-conditioned life to be at least tolerable.  (OTOH, I’ve only been there on vacation, and sweating between bouts of snorkeling is no big deal - I have, however, noticed that business dress is much more casual than on the mainland…)

At home I can get away with higher temps, and function okay.  At the altitude we’re at (~4000 ft.), it usually cools down nicely in the evening during the summer, so that’s not so bad.  But I live 20-miles from work to get this benefit.

None of this strikes me as simple to solve…

Comment #32: MikeEss  on  07/06  at  12:39 PM

For me, my main issue with a/c is this: I live in Canada, where we have the windows closed more months of the year than not, for warmth. To extend that canned-air living year-round seems, to me, to be madness. I hate canned air, and when I lived in a place with central air, I barely touched it but for the 5-6 days per summer that were truly unbreathably, unsleepfully bad. Our city is HUMID in the summer, with sweltering, hard-to-breathe-in air during heatwaves (valley effect), and I get that a/c during humidex apocalypses like the one the Northeast is having this week is life-saving for people with certain conditions. I wouldn’t argue for a ban for that reason alone. But I can’t understand why the a/c is on so high and so often, when as Amanda says, we normally don’t need it/need so much of it. Madness.

Comment #33: Ranylt  on  07/06  at  12:40 PM

Why don’t we as a society stop using fossil fuel based energy and go solar and wind.  Then nobody would give a levtating crap about wasting energy.

Comment #34: Albert Cirrus  on  07/06  at  12:41 PM

Mighty Ponygirl’s comment #6 reminds me that I have some gorgeous ikat fabric from Bali that only needs one seam to become the perfect hot summer loungewear…  I wonder who has a sewing machine I can borrow for 30 seconds?

Comment #35: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  12:41 PM

*levitating

Comment #36: Albert Cirrus  on  07/06  at  12:42 PM

Yeah Mike, it generall speaking, does seem to break down along gender lines. 

The points above about professionals who have to wear suits are well-taken.  Being in the creative field I have never had to do that and I do forget to take that into account.

Comment #37: JennyLI  on  07/06  at  12:43 PM

I’ve been without A/C for two weeks before, when I was in college (the land lord hadn’t brought in window units yet, the lease had just begun).

This is was in Virginia, in late July, and it fucking sucked. In the city, at least, it’s just not doable for me. Now, you don’t have to turn it to max cold or anything, but none at all? I was drinking enough water to drown an elephant, taking three showers a day, etc. I think I was having heat hallucinations by the end of the ordeal. And I was a healthy person in my early 20s—I can’t imagine what an elderly or sick person would go through.

That WAS a particularly hellish summer IIRC, though.

Comment #38: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  12:43 PM

As a resident of Houston, TX and living in a motorhome, AC is essential to survival in summer. I live in a shaded, wooded area, which helps, as does my west-facing awning. The biggest help, that allows for significantly reduced AC use even during the day and that allows me to avoid using AC most nights and still remain comfortable, is double reflective foil insulation in my windows. It cuts to fit with a pair of scissors and is stiff so it will hold within the window frame alone and can be put in or taken out in seconds. When weather cools off, I take it off and open the windows.

Can’t say it looks gorgeous from outside, but the difference it make inside is huge.

Comment #39: annie0313  on  07/06  at  12:44 PM

And yeah, what about giving up central heat. Especially oil heat which people in the north use? At least here it’s mostly heat pumps which use less energy.

How is A/C uniquely dangerous but burning oil for heat isn’t?

Comment #40: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  12:46 PM

By no means am I trying to seem AC innocent (going from the dry-heat California where it was 117 on my birthday on more than one occasion—too hot for a pool party ;( to the humid South, where 95 is more miserable than 105 in California), I have long seen AC as a necessity. What I didn’t know, is that its considered virtuous to set it at 68, 70, or 72!!! Seriously, my parents set it at 76 when were were home, 74 if we were having a party or lots of people over and 80 when we were out for a period of time. Below 68? Seriously???? Did not know that we were strict!

Comment #41: Thealogian  on  07/06  at  12:46 PM

Except today when the powers that be decided that it’s so hot (94 degrees and climbing), we actually have to use the a/c LESS than we did last week when it was only 80 degrees. Can’t figure out what kind of twisted logic brought them to that conclusion, but at least it doesn’t feel like a morgue at work today.

Since it takes more power to cool off to 78 degrees from 95+ than it does from 80 to 68, the drain on the whole grid is higher. Meaning if you want to avoid a citywide brownout/blackout, you should collectively choose a higher thermostat setting during a heat wave. (Plus, it’s a cost savings.)

Comment #42: benvolio  on  07/06  at  12:47 PM

The dress code is a big part of it. Between structured, close-fitting wool or polyester dresses, pantyhose, long pants, close-toed shoes, and shirts to the wrists on men all the time, of course it needs to be constantly crisp like a fall day inside. Those are autumn clothes, or at least clothes adapted to, like, Britain and New England, not Georgia.

As far as clothes for the home, I recommend a loose sleeveless dress and boxer shorts. Seriously. Most comfortable ever.

A ceiling fan in my current cubicle farm would lower the perceived temperature by about five degrees; as is, I carry tights in my bag and put them on at work so that I don’t spend all day freezing in my climate-appropriate skirt (it’s 95 outside today).

Comment #43: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  12:47 PM

Albert—right on. There’s no excuse for all of these strip malls not putting a bunch of solar panels on their flat roofs and using that energy to power/cool the building. I’m imagining every Walmart being a solar farm and it’s a wonderful idea.

Comment #44: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/06  at  12:48 PM

#32

I’m not crazy (73 to 74 is okay, I freeze too when it’s set to 70), but there are some basic issues involved.  The major divide, in my experience, is between men and women, with men tending to like it cooler than women.

This has been my experience as well. Often, in my office, the women will feel too cold when I feel too hot. If it was always 60 Farenheight outside that would be ideal for me, but I realize it doesn’t work that way.

Comment #45: atheist  on  07/06  at  12:48 PM

Home solution at present: since the AC is mostly humidity control here in the summer, we run it overnight, when the outside temperature is often 76 or 78 instead of 90. The theory is that the condenser doesn’t have to work as hard. Then we leave it off all day; if we had a thermostat, this might not be the best solution, but as is the only temperature control is us going around manually turning AC units on and off.

Comment #46: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  12:50 PM

@m_leblanc, #10 - re staying cool ideas, I have two good ones you don’t mention. 

Firstly, when it’s really hot, fuck cooking.  Seriously.  I’m a fan of big salads with ingredients I think are “cooling” (hooray, garbled medieval science!), like fresh tomatoes, cucumber, avocado, or goat cheese.  Also guacamole, hummus, baba ghanoush, and other foods that can be eaten cool with a minimum of preparation.  Sandwiches.  Anything you can drizzle sour cream over. 

Big pitchers of ice water, lemonade, or iced tea help.  It’s probably just the alcohol helping me forget how miserable I am (and the romance of pretending I am in Provence), but I really like drinking pastis on summer evenings. 

If all that (and the tricks you mention) fails, I’ll periodically splash cold water on my face, hands, and pulse points.

Comment #47: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  12:51 PM

I’m all for cutting down-I hardly ever use mine. But I’ll never forget the week a few summers ago, when I had no air conditioning, and even sleeping on top of wet towels, with 2 fans on high pointed directly at me, wasn’t enough. I broke out in the most miserable heat rash, all over my shoulders, back, and chest.

Now, if only my current neighbours would obey the building’s ‘off at 11pm’ rule for air conditioning (the air conditioners are old, and insanely noisy). Some of them turn the air conditioning on in May, and have it on full-blast until October! Which makes it hard on people like me who like to sleep with the windows open, and have to put up with the noise!

Comment #48: JPlum  on  07/06  at  12:53 PM

Why don’t we as a society stop using fossil fuel based energy and go solar and wind.

Basically because cooling takes a boatload of energy. Check out places that sell appliances for living “off the grid.” Got $1100 for a 4.7 cu. ft. refrigerator-freezer?

http://www.sundanzer.com/Upright.htm

Comment #49: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  12:54 PM

I live in a house in the midwest that was built in the 1950s. No A/C. Instead, it was built with a large fan to the outdoors (which can be closed off in the winter) in the attic, and the house layout was designed to draw air through the whole place and cool it off. We’re a bit warmer than is comfortable in the summer, and since we also keep the heat low, we’re also a little colder than we’d entirely like in the winter…but why shouldn’t we experience temperature differences in our life? Seasons are interesting!

Comment #50: PZ Myers  on  07/06  at  12:54 PM

  Why is it that the hot ones always seem to win the thermostat wars though? 

I’ve seen it speculated that it’s because a) more men than women go into that category and b) the fear of sweating.  The latter is reasonable enough.  The former would be helped by a culture that didn’t require men to wear so much more clothes than women in the summer.

Comment #51: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/06  at  12:54 PM

I grew up without a/c (in Chicago) and over the years have slowly been pushing my husband’s tolerance for summer temperatures up.  Used to be that our a/c was set at 72, got it up to 75, then last summer up to 79. This summer I tried 80.

This summer, I’ve also been dedicated to getting all the windows open in the evening, and then closing up the house and shutting our heavy/themo curtains just before we go to work. And even during the 90-95 degree days of the past few weeks . . . our a/c has not been kicking on (our thermostat has a little meter on its screen that tells us how much our a/c has run that day). Our house is generally right at 79-80 when we get home and it’s generally at 78-80 outside, so we open up the windows and get the air moving again. Each day we repeat the cycle: it goes down to 68-72 in the house overnight with the windows open and then we jealously seal in that cooler air each morning.

Comment #52: hp  on  07/06  at  12:55 PM

But now that I live in DC, I’ve found that A/C is necessary for my sleep. I was born and raised in the upper Midwest.

Part of me wonders how much of our culture’s obsession with A/C, and especially the contention that one simply cannot live in humid parts of the country without it, has to do with how mobile our society is. 

I mean, people have lived in tropical climates for literally millions of years without air conditioning.  They did OK.  Probably billions of people are living in tropical climates sans A/C right now, and again, seem to be doing OK (aside from other issues totally unrelated to indoor temperatures, like poverty and tropical diseases). 

What’s new, however, and relatively limited to the affluent West, is this idea that someone who grew up in one climate is going to uproot and move to a totally different climate they have no personal adaptation to or coping skills for.  And, if that climate is hot and humid, they’re not going to want to wait around for years slowly getting used to it and learning coping skills.  This is America!  We want a solution NOW!  Air con for everyone!

Comment #53: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  12:59 PM

I live in South Florida. I keep my thermostat around 78. However, there is no way I would give up my AC. I’ve had to go weeks (after hurricanes) without it and it is unbearable. You get no sleep and it’s so hot that you can barely think. There generally is no breeze here and it’s just gross and humid. Opening the windows does nothing.

However, with that said I figure the pay off is that I do not use heat. From around October/November through April/May my windows are open. (Though we got in the 30’s this year.)

Comment #54: cissypants  on  07/06  at  01:00 PM

Opoponax, in the “throw money at the problem” vein, there’s always induction cookers, which have the least heat waste of any cooking method. We’ve got one. Is buying a new product really the sustainable thing? Meh. But it is neat to put a paper towel under my oatmeal pot to catch spills while I cook it. Plus low fire hazard.

Comment #55: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:00 PM

Opo reminds me: Unless we were farmhands, we would naturally eat less in the summer when it was hot, and more in the winter when it was cold. With A/C we can shovel it in all year round. So I would add A/C to the list of factors behind the obesity epidemic.

When it’s hot, I will grill sirloin on Sunday, and slice it into strips to eat over a nice tomato and lettuce salad all week.

Comment #56: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  01:01 PM

I use AC because I live in Phoenix but I don’t get all crazy about it. I generally keep it at 80 degrees when people are home and 88 when it’s just the dog/cat. From October to April, though, I don’t use any heat or AC at all, I just open windows and use fans. I also live in a teeny tiny 800 square foot house that I share with two other people so I don’t feel too bad. Still a little bad, though. My office is always set to 68 degrees because a few aggressive douchewads aggressively patrol the thermostats like guard dogs or something, shooing people away whenever anyone tries to alter the temp, even though seriously, like 80% of people in the office are uncomfortable.

Comment #57: Jenny Dreadful  on  07/06  at  01:05 PM

I mean, people have lived in tropical climates for literally millions of years without air conditioning.

Yeah, and people lived for millions of years without food safety regulations, antibiotics, public education, electricity, and whole host of other things. Wouldn’t want to go back to that, though.

Nobody wanted to move to the south before A/C. There were no cities here of any real importance. Florida was a backwater. That changed just as A/C came into the mainstream, and I don’t think it is a coincidence.

Comment #58: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  01:07 PM

Comment juxtaposition provides an answer:

I mean, people have lived in tropical climates for literally millions of years without air conditioning.  They did OK.  Probably billions of people are living in tropical climates sans A/C right now, and again, seem to be doing OK (aside from other issues totally unrelated to indoor temperatures, like poverty and tropical diseases). 

it is unbearable. You get no sleep and it’s so hot that you can barely think.

When it’s too hot to think, people stop thinking. Intellectual activity, industry, etc. were pretty much limited to temperate zones before A/C. Religions are spawned in all sorts of climates, however.

Comment #59: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  01:07 PM

Does the author propose a solution to the problem of keeping server rooms at a temperature that won’t melt CPUs? Because until we solve that problem, it’s either keep the A/C or get rid of all information technology

BlackBloc, I seem to recall that this idea of make it cold cold cold was tested out and ... well ... it was unfounded.  You don’t need to keep a server room extremely cold.  Not anymore at least.  sure, people selling you services will warn you to buy their stuff or else ...

Comment #60: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  01:09 PM

Egnu @25: Well, it’s not that we’ll never “win”.  Eventually, we will have to give up A/C, because we’re not going to produce enough fossil fuel energy to run it all.  The question is, do we reduce willfully or by force?

Comment #61: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/06  at  01:09 PM

Why don’t we as a society stop using fossil fuel based energy and go solar and wind.  Then nobody would give a levtating crap about wasting energy.

You’d still need to care about waste, because solar and wind would have a maximum Kilowatt production per acre, and unless you decide to raze everything for wind farm that means you need to work within an energy budget even with renewable ressources.

But at least we wouldn’t be burning fossil fuels, leading to faster global warming on the long term, to cool ourselves in the short term.

Comment #62: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  01:10 PM

I’ve had to go weeks (after hurricanes) without it and it is unbearable.

I’ve heard it gets hotter and more humid in the aftermath of a hurricane.  I grew up in south Louisiana and am usually OK with high humidity and a certain degree of heat, but clearing branches out of my mom’s yard after Gustave was brutal beyond my wildest dreams.  I wouldn’t take your experiences with hurricane-related power outages as representative of what life without AC feels like.  It’s hot, but it’s not hot like that.

Comment #63: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:12 PM

Oppopnax, living year round in tropics means being able to have wide open architecture and design your day around siestas and such because the weather rarely changes day to day - and then only to rain.

You. Can’t. Do. That. Here. 

I would love to have a wide-open house right now ... problem is, I need a tightly buttoned house when it is -10F and not +100C - these temps occurring in a six month span.

I study this stuff in conjunction with air pollution research - adaptions do NOT take place in a span of DAYS.  Adapted populations live where the weather is like this ALL THE TIME.

Add in the problems of keeping malaria, yellow fever, etc. and all those lovely scourges of pre-AC living in torrid climates in the US (DC posting merited Tropical Hazard Zone pay from several European countries up until AC was common) and it is far more complex than “whiiinnyyy Americannnnnsss”.

Comment #64: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  01:15 PM

+100 F ... it just feels boiling hot

Comment #65: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  01:16 PM

Paying for A/C makes me conscious of how much I really want to use it, but the truth is that living on an upper floor on hot and humid days can be unbearable without it.

Offices tend to be cold because the thermostat is geared to favor visitors or others who are wearing suits and ties rather than those of us going casual wearing short sleeves.

And in the days before AC, some days would be just “too hot to work.”. AC means I can keep working despite the weather.

Comment #66: Tyro  on  07/06  at  01:16 PM

BlackBloc, I seem to recall that this idea of make it cold cold cold was tested out and ... well ... it was unfounded.  You don’t need to keep a server room extremely cold.  Not anymore at least.  sure, people selling you services will warn you to buy their stuff or else ...

I don’t think you understand just how much heat a typical server room generates. With the 2 A/Cs on, the room is still hotter than the rest of the office (I’d say around 80 degrees). If one A/C is off you can feel the heat when walking near the door (the doors have to be open and fans running or the room itself would become way too hot) and it’s about the heat I feel when I go out the airport in Indianapolis around the time of GenCon (August).

I own one computer and sometimes if the fan get clogged (and, say, I’m playing a 3d intensive game) the CPU quickly heats up to 100 degrees, triggering a fail safe… and my computer shuts down before the thing burns up.

Our server room isn’t that big. Now think of Google’s database and server farms and how much energy these spend every day on A/C just so the computers won’t die on them. They were showing a documentary on Google on TV and one of these can be the size of an oil refinery. And they run multiples.

Comment #67: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  01:17 PM

BlackBloc, I seem to recall that this idea of make it cold cold cold was tested out and ... well ... it was unfounded.  You don’t need to keep a server room extremely cold.  Not anymore at least.  sure, people selling you services will warn you to buy their stuff or else ...

The problem is that a mass of servers generate its own heat. We’ve had problems with our a/c failing IN our server room at work, while the a/c for the rest of the office is still running, and the server room approaches about 110F in about 30 minutes. Many things do start failing at that temperature point, hard drives being primary among them.  I’ve seen and experienced that.

At home, our servers and switches are all in the basement, which stays at about 65 degrees even through the summer, without our a/c upstairs running. BlackBloc: I suspect some better management of where mass numbers of computers are kept would aid in at least the reduction of a/c usage for keeping hardware cool.

Comment #68: hp  on  07/06  at  01:19 PM

I love living in southern California and I love how it gets cold at night, but my apartment completely fails to take advantage of this. It’s got bedroom windows without bars on a public walkway, so no one feels safe having them open at night. The weather is so good here that a reasonable person would only want A/C at home maybe 10 days of the year. Out electrical bill is only $10/month.

My office is even stupider- we have huge, open-able windows along a whole wall, and we don’t open them because the A/C is on. And we can’t find a thermostat. Maybe there isn’t one? All we can find is a heavy-duty switch, far too high up on the wall to reach and use casually, which turns off all ventilation in the room. So the A/C, which none of us especially want, stays on. Brilliant.

Comment #69: Maple  on  07/06  at  01:21 PM

Intellectual activity, industry, etc. were pretty much limited to temperate zones before A/C.

I have two rebuttals.

#1 - You think the average American sitting in 65-degree central AC in Houston or Atlanta is an intellectual?  Ha.  Clearly you have never actually spent any time in the parts of the country where people claim to need super-cold central air conditioning 24/7, year round.

#2 - Your above claim is demonstrably false. Greece, Rome, and Egypt being easy examples.  For that matter, over the vast majority of the last few millennia, most “intellectual” human knowledge was being preserved in places like Cairo and Baghdad, while we whiteys with the supposedly thinking-oriented climate were busy burning our smart people at the stake.

I would also be damn careful trying to forward the argument that tropical regions have produced no complex cultures or valuable intellectual ideas.  It gets real racist, real fast.

Comment #70: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:21 PM

BTW does anybody remember the 2003 European heat wave?

Their level of home A/C installation is much lower than that of the United States (which is usually fine, because their summers are cooler). But when places like France *did* get an American-like summer in 2003, thousands of people died from heat-related deaths. That’s what it would be like here, every single summer, if air conditioning didn’t exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

Comment #71: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  01:22 PM

I understand the heat generation issue - but the mythology was once that a server room needed to be kept down to like 40-50F - ridiculous.  Also, systems can be designed so that heat can be sent into the rest of the building in winter.

I think it was google, actually, that ran a server room up to 80 or 90F and didn’t see loss of component function, performance, or lifespan.  It isn’t that they don’t need heat removal - but that they didn’t need as much as was touted as necessary.

Comment #72: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  01:22 PM

This is a great post!  And I have another suggestion for reducing AC use: turn off (or hibernate) electronic devices when they’re not actively being used, especially desktop computers.  They throw off a ridiculous amount of heat - if I leave my desktop on for a few hours, the office is noticeably hotter than the hallway.

Comment #73: Gillian  on  07/06  at  01:22 PM

Yeah, and people lived for millions of years without food safety regulations, antibiotics, public education, electricity, and whole host of other things. Wouldn’t want to go back to that, though.

You can’t actually die from being slightly uncomfortable.

Which, btw, is the answer to your question about heat.  In cold places, when there is no heat people die.  In hot places, when there is no A/C, people whine.

Comment #74: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:23 PM

Ben, not exactly

I have worked with researchers who studied that heat wave - a huge part of the problem was that most of the providers of services in the government were on vacation, so responses were slow.

Another part was that there were not many large buildings with AC - like there are in not-very-air-conditioned Seattle and Portland - to take in refugees.  Mostly?  Poor response, poor planning, and nobody to do anything about it.

Comment #75: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  01:24 PM

You can’t actually die from being slightly uncomfortable.

You can, however, die from heat stroke. See above about what happened in Europe during their heat wave when American-like summers met European A/C ownership rates.

Comment #76: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  01:24 PM

I carry a sweater or sweat shirt with me all summer because of the damned AC.  Honestly, I couldn’t work without it - too many of the instruments and procedures I do are temperature sensitive to be conducted at whatever temperature it happens to be today (and we really don’t want to see a million-dollar instrument crashing because it’s overheated), but it’s always overdone.  I actually moved work spaces because I was sharing with some folks who liked it so cold that I was wearing a stocking cap, all day, every day at work.

I use it at home, but sparingly.  My summer utility bills are a fraction of what they are in the winter, and it would be even better if I had more control over my environment.  Hopefully I’ll own my own place eventually and will be able to control the insulation and climate systems for both better comfort and better efficiency.

Comment #77: libdevil  on  07/06  at  01:25 PM

And yeah, what about giving up central heat. Especially oil heat which people in the north use? At least here it’s mostly heat pumps which use less energy.

How is A/C uniquely dangerous but burning oil for heat isn’t?

It’s easier to heat than to cool? Elsewise Homo sapiens wouldn’t have had fire for millenia, but AC only since Carrier.

While we’re at it, if there is AC system which doesn’t create massive amounts of heat elsewhere, I haven’t heard of it, especially in autos, or bare-bones applications.

(Not being chippy—I literally haven’t.)

Comment #78: ThresherK  on  07/06  at  01:26 PM

I think it was google, actually, that ran a server room up to 80 or 90F and didn’t see loss of component function, performance, or lifespan.  It isn’t that they don’t need heat removal - but that they didn’t need as much as was touted as necessary.

I think many places nowadays already do let their server rooms get up in the high 70s. I haven’t been in a cold server room in a long time.

The only issue there is that when you’re running that hot, you have less time in case of a/c failure to get everything shut down or things fixed.

Comment #79: hp  on  07/06  at  01:26 PM

I now live in Okinawa, and during the rainy season, it’s nasty with the humidity. We don’t have AC in our apartment, but we’re getting it. My son apparently has sensitive skin and he’s had heat rash for a while that just isn’t going away. My wife and I both hate AC, but… so it goes.

They have ads on walls here encouraging businesses to adopt “kariyushi wear” for summers. Basically, nice dressy-looking Hawaiian shirts instead of suits. At the business college where I teach, they switch over from suits to kariyushi at the beginning of May. The signs use money as a motivator; with cooler clothing, you can have the temperature higher, saving money on power.

Just like they don’t have central heating here, they also don’t have central AC. Each room is individually air conditioned, but not the hallways, and they turn off the AC in rooms that aren’t in use. I don’t know if it ends up being more efficient, but I suspect it actually is. My students handle the temperature controls, and they keep it as warm as is comfortable.

In short: I think they handle AC pretty responsibly here in Okinawa, definitely a pretty warm place. It can be done. I don’t even use AC in the car; that’s what windows are for. I’m in the minority there, though. Most people are driving with their windows up, and you can’t do that here without AC.

Comment #80: Matthew, Patron Saint of Affogato  on  07/06  at  01:26 PM

“I’ve heard it gets hotter and more humid in the aftermath of a hurricane.”

That’s never really been my experience.  You get roughly the same feeling after, say, a week of normal-if-severe thunderstorms dumping rain all over everything followed by the sun coming out and trying to poach everything.  Though I don’t know how typical that particular weatherly song and dance is in places that aren’t Florida.

Comment #81: preying mantis  on  07/06  at  01:26 PM

I have hypothyroidism so I get cold easily.  I used the A/C a lot less than most people, but I also use the heat much more in the winter.

I absolutely love fresh air, so I try to keep my giant windows open as long as possible.  I just feel like my apartment smells less fresh during the winter when I have to keep everything closed up.  Like many others, I often turn off the A/C during the day while I’m at work.  However, I have a very old cat so I keep it running on sweltering days like this.  He prefers the fresh air too, so I’ll leave the windows open and turn off the A/C for as long as possible, but I do not want him to die from the heat.  I usually keep my thermostat set to 77F, which is most comfortable for me.  I just can’t imagine how anyone can stand 68F.  Generally if the nighttime low is predicted to be 70F or less, I won’t use the A/C.  On weekends I’ll tolerate more heat but I don’t want to get all sweaty at night when I have to go to work the next day.

Comment #82: bananacat  on  07/06  at  01:26 PM

Elsewise Homo sapiens wouldn’t have had fire for millenia, but AC only since Carrier.

Yes, but until the industrial revolution they burned wood for heat—which is fine, because that’s a natural part of the carbon cycle. Then they used coal, and now oil, which isn’t, because that’s trapped carbon.

So unless you live in rural New England where you use a woodstove (which is cool if you can do it) you’re just as much part of the problem as people who use A/C, maybe even more so since central electricity generation to run A/C is more efficient than having millions of little oil burners going full blast.

Comment #83: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  01:28 PM

In hot places, when there is no A/C, people whine.

Right.  They also die.  I’m sure you are familiar with PubMed - you might want to go check out how people die, and how access to AC is a huge issue in the Environmental Justice community BECAUSE it is such a huge marker of who dies and who doesn’t.

Comment #84: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  01:29 PM

Opoponax, thank you for calling out the climate-as-destiny thing, which does get real racist real fast (I mean, holy crap, whole Mediterranean basin and Egypt, what?). Also, I promise you people die of heat. If you are out in the heat and you don’t get shade, hydration, and rest, your nervous system basically cooks like an egg. That is not an exaggeration; it happens every year to fieldworkers in my state. The elderly and very young are particularly vulnerable to heat prostration.

Comment #85: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:30 PM

Oppopnax, living year round in tropics means being able to have wide open architecture and design your day around siestas and such because the weather rarely changes day to day - and then only to rain.

Generations of my family lived in southern Louisiana before air conditioning was widely available.  They were farmers and managed to do hard physical labor out in the fields all day in the heat of summer.  Louisiana doesn’t have a siesta culture (sadly - shouldn’t every culture be a siesta culture?), and the architecture there, even back before strip malls and subdivisions, was not any more “open” than what you see in any other part of the country.  The only concession to the heat I’m aware of, historically, is the popularity of big shady porches. 

I’ve never heard my grandparents complain about the heat of The Time Before Air Conditioning.  Even now, they usually have the A/C turned off outside the dog days, and tend to practice the same kind of air conditioning use that people have talked about upthread - closing unused rooms, running window units only when absolutely necessary, etc.  They have a totally different approach to hot weather than my parents and my brothers and I have (we all grew up in the A/C era). 

Look, I’m not saying that everybody ought to get rid of A/C in some kind of personal purity greener-than-though deprivation contest.  I’m saying that, even in tropical parts of the world, A/C is not a life necessity.

Comment #86: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:32 PM

People are never going to ditch the AC but I think people are generally responsive to using less AC, either by setting the temperature higher or delaying when in the season you’re going to start using it. We could probably also consider not cranking the heat up so much when it’s cold out. I’m fine in my place if it’s sixty degrees or higher, but you’d be surprised how many people, even here in Phoenix, crank up the heat when it’s chilly out. Some people try to set the office thermostat to 80! it is insane.

Comment #87: Jenny Dreadful  on  07/06  at  01:34 PM

If this jackass doesn’t have an exemption for old, sick, or very young people, and server rooms (let’s see him publish a book on a Gutenberg press), or doesn’t understand what it’s like to live in a paved-over swamp like DC, then he can eat my sweaty shorts.

There’s a lot of technology to not running A/C that we’ve forgotten or ignored in modern building design.  Many office buildings have no openable windows at all.

Hot air rises, so an attic fan to suck air out through the top is a good idea—if you run it at night.  During the day you’ll just be pulling hot air in from outside, so shut it off by noon, and open the doors/windows on the cool side of the house.  Ideally you move around which windows are open.

If you have an apartment, chances are you are on just one face of the building, so you don’t have cross-ventilation, which saved my sanity in a couple of the early older apartments I lived in that didn’t have A/C.  It’s much easier to cool off everything quickly that way.

But even if you don’t have cross-ventilation, double-hung windows allow better circulation than you might think—the top opening allows hot air to escape, and the bottom then allows the cool air to come in.  It’s like magic, it really does work!

My main temperature gripe is not having electric windows on my car, so I can’t roll down all the windows and blow out all the hot air at speed, and then roll them all up, unless I have passengers.  A sun/moonroof would help with this, too, I suppose.

That and no cars have “wings” any more.

http://www.irememberjfk.com/mt/2007/09/wing_vent_windows.php

If your feet get hot in the car, you can probably get A/C in your car through the foot “heater” vents, just use the heat/defrost setting and keep the temperature setting in the cold (blue) area.  It’ll be cold—the air goes over the same coils it does when running on the A/C setting.

Comment #88: oldfeminist  on  07/06  at  01:35 PM

Like so many others posting here I get wigged out by aggressive AC in the summer. I live in Boston and teach in a school where it’s often too cold in summer, and of course too hot in winter. Still, I wonder why our environmental hackles are more rankled by AC then by heating. A scientist friend I trust explained to me that it takes less energy to cool a space by one degree than it does to heat it by one degree. Combine this with the fact that in many places (like the East Coast) we tend to use AC to change indoor temp by less than twenty degrees while in winter we use heat to change the temp by forty degrees or more and you have a puzzling situation. It seems like we see AC as an environmentally irresponsible luxury that reflects badly on the character of the user. while heating, which uses far more energy, is just a necessity. Any explanations?

Comment #89: gxrsound  on  07/06  at  01:36 PM

People are never going to ditch the AC but I think people are generally responsive to using less AC, either by setting the temperature higher or delaying when in the season you’re going to start using it.

Yes, the solution is to use it more responsibly, not cut it out entirely. Just like on the other thread where people pointed out that though it may be extremely difficult for most people to be car-free, you CAN be car light relatively easily.

Comment #90: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  01:36 PM

BTW does anybody remember the 2003 European heat wave?

I was in Italy, in a rented house without so much as a fan.  Indoors during the afternoon, it was HELL.  And I’ll admit I didn’t sleep well most nights, either. 

However, I was also lucky to have the privilege of A) being on vacation there, so not needing to be indoors during the day (and sleepless nights had few consequences, w00t espresso!), and B) staying in a beach town.  If it got super miserable, we could always go throw ourselves into the Mediterranean for a bit. 

I can’t imagine what it must have been like for locals.

Comment #91: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:37 PM

I use it on only the worst days as I hate the contrast between the cold air and then going out into what feels like an oven.

I remember several years ago reading a letter to Metropolitan Home where a woman tells of wanting to build a house in I think it was North Carolina without airconditioning. The bank wouldn’t lend her money UNLESS she did put in AC so she did. When it was built her banker stopped by and commented how cool the place was and how it was the quietest AC he’d ever come across and she replied that it wasn’t on. The house was built in such a way that it stayed cool even on hot days. I have friends here in NYC who live in pre-war buildings that were constucted in such a way that the AC is only needed on the very worst of hot and humid days. So many of the techniques used in the past to keep homes cool have been overlooked as it is far easier simply to put in AC. We need to resurrect those old techniques and blend them with new ones and persuade the banks to encourage people to do so when they build or re-model their homes.

Comment #92: Shakatany  on  07/06  at  01:38 PM

If you are out in the heat and you don’t get shade, hydration, and rest, your nervous system basically cooks like an egg.

If you live in a tropical part of the world and you know A/C is not an option, you make sure to work this stuff out.  There are coping mechanisms for heat, just like there are for cold.

Comment #93: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:39 PM

“You can, however, die from heat stroke. See above about what happened in Europe during their heat wave when American-like summers met European A/C ownership rates.”

Don’t be silly.  Everybody knows the heat can’t hurt you.  Those half-dozen people American cities lose to abnormally bad heat waves every so often clearly just whine themselves to death.  Presumably people who die or are badly injured by high fevers are suffering from a similar lack of fortitude.

Comment #94: preying mantis  on  07/06  at  01:39 PM

And the “cold ones” win for a very simple reason:  You can put on more clothes to keep warm, but I can’t take off any clothes to keep cool.

I have always hated this argument!  I had a room mate in college who insisted on blasting the A/C and turning the heat completely off in the middle of winter.  She would do this after I already went to bed.  Everyone told me to just put on a sweater, but that’s not enough.  I can’t type while wearing mittens.  If I use a scarf to warm my nose, then I can’t get enough air.  I shouldn’t have to choose between freezing and suffocating.  There’s nothing I can do to warm my eyes.  If I wear earmuffs, I can’t hear what’s going on.  There’s no way at all to warm the air that passes my throat and goes into my lungs.  It hurts to breath air that cold.  What I am supposed to do when I get out of the shower?  I have to leave my wet hair exposed so it can dry, and I don’t really think 10 bathrobes would be enough to keep me tolerably warm.  And I shouldn’t have to wear a parka while I’m inside.  This simply isn’t practical for many people.

Comment #95: bananacat  on  07/06  at  01:39 PM

I don’t know about any of you, but I’m extremely sensitive to heat (but very tolerant of the cold). I can’t even sleep comfortably when it’s hot…

I’ve also worked in a warehouse when it was 90 degrees *inside*, shit was MISERABLE.

Comment #96: Devonian  on  07/06  at  01:40 PM

The house was built in such a way that it stayed cool even on hot days.

That’s very true about older buildings, and we’ve ignored a lot of those techniques now. McMansions, especially, with their big vaulted ceilings and big-ass rooms are impossible to keep cool or hot without climate control on.

Comment #97: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  01:41 PM

I live in a house in the midwest that was built in the 1950s. No A/C. ... We’re a bit warmer than is comfortable in the summer, and since we also keep the heat low, we’re also a little colder than we’d entirely like in the winter…but why shouldn’t we experience temperature differences in our life? Seasons are interesting!

I think this comment shpuld be distributed to anyone considering getting a PhD in the biological sciences or, for that matter, anyone considering a career in academia, just so they can have a reasonable expectation/warning for what their future will hold.

Comment #98: Tyro  on  07/06  at  01:41 PM

Opoponax, sources on heat-related death: increases in deaths during hot spells, heat-related deaths in outdoor occupations, an excellent article on physiology of heat stroke. I am cautious of citing my grandparents’ or great-grandparents’ experiences, because it falls into the fallacy of “you don’t meet many old women who died in childbirth.” It’s entirely possible that a certain background level of heat-related death was considered acceptable, or simply went unexplained in rural areas; I also note that the first study references city-dwellers exclusively, and that urban heat islands are in a feedback loop with air conditioners.

Comment #99: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:42 PM

I had no idea that people set their AC so low. I set my AC at 80 and my heat at 68 in the winter. I can’t imagine how much more it would cost me to cool the house all the way down to 68-72 during the summer.

AC is needed in some zones of the country, unless you don’t value the lives of the old and the sick. without AC some city newspapers would be keeping heat wave death toll counts on their front page every summer.

***In hot places, when there is no A/C, people whine. ***

Seriously?? I remember one summer in St. Louis where over 100 people died due to not having AC. Do you consider that an acceptable sacrifice so you can feel superior?  Almost 15,000 people died in France’s 2003 heat wave. Do you really want to stand by that comment?

Comment #100: Bruce from Missouri  on  07/06  at  01:44 PM

I also want to note that the built environments people - farmworkers or citydwellers - are living and working in are going to be different today - a four-acre field bordered by trees near a natural water source is going to have a very different microclimate than a 100-acre field that is drip irrigated, for example.

Comment #101: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:46 PM

Just my experience here:
* My wife has MS and is very heat sensitive.  If the house is not air conditioned she cannot function. 
* I have bad allergies and even with OTC drugs I need to keep the windows closed through much of the year.  The cost of prescription drugs would be more than running the AC.
* Both of us have serious difficulty sleeping if it is too hot or humid.  (This, at least, I could probably get over/used to given time, but not my wife.)

There are many people who have similar issues.  We could move north (and probably will, eventually), but it’s not like we’re in a particularly hot part of the country.  We live in the mountains in the Mid-Atlantic, and it’s cooler here in the summer than it is in, say, Philly or even NYC.

We spend WAY less for electricity for AC in the summer than we do for heat in the winter, and that’s WITH new windows and doors and running our wood stove on especially cold evenings.

So to me, it also seems like AC absolutism is wrong-headed.  Amanda’s approach - making people conscious about how much AC they use and when/if they really need it - seems much smarter.  Also, perhaps we should have market/regulatory incentives to encourage efficiency and prevent overuse?

Comment #102: Dave Fried  on  07/06  at  01:46 PM

This year I haven’t put my AC unit in the window yet.  It’s old, and I’m getting older too:  putting it in is awful and letting it spew dust for the first day or so, from the depths I can’t clean, is gross.  I pine for a new, lighter, more efficient one, but summer is a light-earning time for me and I haven’t been able to catch a sale yet.

My most effective self-help in this heat wave have been

1.  snug cotton sheets
2.  fan across the bed
3.  water in the tub so I can go dunk myself in it periodically and return to the fan and a new cooler spot on said sheets
4.  REALLY cold drinking water, lemonade, etc.  Popsicles.
5.  cold meals
6.  minimal clothing

...and visits to malls etc to hang out with other people’s AC.

Still, I am not a convert to the AC-less life.  I can’t wait until autumn, which is not a great feeling in July.

Comment #103: J A  on  07/06  at  01:48 PM

I do want to note that good solar design helps; we don’t heat in winter at all if it’s above about 10 or 15, due to deciduous trees and south-facing windows, and we’re working right now on getting insulating blinds or drapes for the summer, so that we can get cool air in at night and keep it.

Comment #104: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:48 PM

The tone of some of the posts here from people who don’t use air conditioning reminds me of the smugness some people have when talking about how they don’t have a TV.  I’ve heard the same smugness from some people who don’t eat meat, as well as people who don’t use ‘chemical’ deodorant!  Whatever happened to ‘To each his own’?  So spare us the holier-than-thou attitudes you achieve through your self-denial, and try to accept the fact that other people may want to be comfortable in the summer and turn on their air conditioners.  Not everyone has the luxury of moving north.

Philadelphia just had its fifth heat-related death of this summer.  If that woman would have had air conditioning, she might still be alive.  And what about the heat wave in Europe during 2003 that killed thousands?

Comment #105: Lexi  on  07/06  at  01:50 PM

While I’m at it, does anyone here know of a place where you can get a thermostat that plugs into an outlet and interrupts current to an air conditioner? Having three air conditioners that only set to “on” or “off” gets a little ridiculous sometimes.

Comment #106: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:50 PM

McMansions, especially, with their big vaulted ceilings and big-ass rooms are impossible to keep cool or hot without climate control on.

Our house borders on being a McMansion, and has a wonderful vaulted ceiling in the master bedroom. I actually love that ceiling and wish the kid’s room had a vaulted ceiling too—I open the windows of the master bedroom in the evening and woosh, all the hot air rises upward and the cool air gets sucked in. If it’s significantly cooler outside, it takes about 3 minutes for the master bedroom to cool down.

Whereas the kid’s room with its 8 foot ceilings just stays hot unless I put a fan into the open window to suck the cool air in. I suspect that’s why 9 and 10 foot ceilings are extremely common in pre-a/c houses in our area—the higher the space above you goes, hot air rises.

Comment #107: hp  on  07/06  at  01:50 PM

When I lived in Boulder I always opened up the windows at night to bring the cool air in, then shut them during the day and drew the shades.  However, because a lot of the windows in Boulder are those awful 70s era sideways openers, I could only open them up a bit, otherwise it would have been unsafe; someone could have easily crawled in. 

Boulder’s a place where, if buildings were designed better, you’d never need air conditioning.  But I think it is a status symbol for people, and, of course, most buildings are poorly designed. 

Now I live in the South, and it’s 100 degrees today, but I have differential pricing and only run the AC at night.  Thankfully, I also have an older home in which the biggest windows are north-facing and there are deep eaves, though I’d like to get better insulation for it.

Comment #108: BetsyD  on  07/06  at  01:51 PM

HP, ten or twelve foot ceilings are adaptive here and are prevalent in older buildings - I’m from the mountains and used to little seven-foot hobbit holes to keep the heat in, so I always notice how tall older buildings are.

Comment #109: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  01:54 PM

OK, OK, sorry for the snark about the whining.  And, yes, people die because of heat exposure.  Largely as an effect of poverty, not lack of an air conditioner, but I’m willing to admit I’m wrong and not quibble over the semantics.

Comment #110: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  01:57 PM

People do die from lack of air conditioning.  It’s usually the elderly poor, so I suppose it’s easy to ignore, but it happens.  A friend of mine died that way, and every time the heat goes way up, I think of her.  Yes- she wasn’t healthy, yes she had asthma, and not enough money for all the drugs she needed to control it.  And yes, had I even an inkling she didn’t have AC that weekend, I would have invited her to stay at my house.

I would guess that AC is better for those who have allergies to outdoor stuff like pollen and grass, and worse for those with allergies to indoor stuff like dust mites, cockroaches, carpet glue, and cleaning supplies.  Mold is a toss up since AC does inhibit mold growth, but increases time inside.  So while it inhibits growth, it doesn’t stop mold growth, and this one might work on a home to home basis and not be as predictable.

We keep our AC at 76-77, and it goes on when the house temp is over 80.  I can’t bear over 80 inside a house, although it can be quite refreshing outside if there’s a breeze.  Windows are lovely if you live somewhere with a breeze, but not everywhere has a breeze.  It’s too bad- I lament that fact too, but it’s simply something outside my power to change.

Speaking of alternative energy forms, it looks like they are finally tapping into geothermal in Nevada.  http://www.inhabitat.com/2010/06/17/doe-funds-to-make-nevada-the-saudi-arabia-of-geothermal-energy/

Comment #111: drachonfire  on  07/06  at  01:57 PM

“I have always hated this argument!”

...but it is nevertheless true.  And I’m not talking about thermostats set at 68F or something, I’m talking about 72-74 or so. 

I know it’s not “fair” or whatever, but the fact is if you’re cold and it’s 72F, you can put on another layer of clothing to get warmer.  If it’s 74 and I’m sweating (and I mean the back of my shirt soaked through) because I’m required to wear a tucked dress shirt (with the sleeves rolled up) and at least Dockers (I’m lucky enough not to be required to actually wear a suit), I can’t disrobe further without being fired. 

This is the stupidity of not taking climate into consideration when formulating dress codes.  And the reason they don’t take it into consideration is because of the common availability of AC.  We have a weird, fixed, idea of what is appropriate business wear, and as a culture we can only tolerate a small amount of deviation from this idea. 

On the one hand, it’s only a cultural thing.  It should be possible for people of good will to arrive at logical solutions to these problems.  On the other hand, all of the deepest and most intractable human problems are based in really-difficult-to-change aspects of human culture…

Comment #112: MikeEss  on  07/06  at  01:57 PM

I agree with trying to cut down on A/C use, rather than cut it out entirely. I don’t turn on my A/C until it is over 93, preferring to keep the windows open and the fan going. My bedroom only has one window and stays relatively cool all the time, so a fan at night with the window open works all right.

But this whole week it is supposed to stay in the upper 90s, and I’m really not looking forward to my electric bill, even with all the lights off.

I hope that the whole summer isn’t like this! When my weather in NY is warmer than the parentals in Florida, that’s just wrong!

Comment #113: Bethynyc  on  07/06  at  01:58 PM

I don’t think I can have a meaningful conversation with people who think that the Mediterranean climate—the mildest known to man—is the same as tropical.

Are facts racist? The Industrial Revolution did not take place in Guyana, nor did the Phillipines produce any great works of philosophy. Further, tropical climates have a stultifying effect even on temperate zone whitey—look at the derivation of “Gone Troppo.”

Comment #114: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  02:01 PM

I’ve got to say, this winter I succeeded at my self-imposed “don’t touch the AC/heater” challenge, but I gave in to summer before it even had to try. And I’m like you, I don’t like AC on principle. I grew up in Brittany where it is genuinely not useful in my opinion; Japan is another matter.

However, my “no AC/heating” winter challenge explicitly allowed the japanese heated table (look up “kotatsu”). Maybe limiting the AC to a localized environment you can gravitate to when needed and helps keep the other times tolerable could be a good alternative.

Comment #115: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  02:04 PM

Lexi, I don’t get that at all.  I haven’t even seen anyone say that they don’t use AC at all.  Most, if not all, are simply stating that there is way way too much AC in our society.  I freeze most places I go into.  We can all agree that we have different ideal temps, but there is no excuse for setting the AC below 70.  There just isn’t.

And we do have a crisis, so educating people on things they can do, myself included! to rely less on AC, can only be a good thing.

Comment #116: JennyLI  on  07/06  at  02:07 PM

...but it is nevertheless true.

No, I can’t do my job while wearing gloves, and I can’t breathe while wearing a scarf.  You can still do your job if you’re a little sweaty.

Comment #117: bananacat  on  07/06  at  02:08 PM

While I’m at it, does anyone here know of a place where you can get a thermostat that plugs into an outlet and interrupts current to an air conditioner?

Home Depot used to sell the discontinued Hunter AirStat. Poking around Amazon turned up this product:

WIN100 Heating & Cooling Programmable Outlet Thermostat

Comment #118: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  02:09 PM

One thing I’m willing to admit about my “oh come on!” attitude to the supposed need for A/C is that I’m sort of forgetting that this is largely an urban issue.  Sure, my Cajun forebears worked in the fields in triple digit heat.  But they lived in the country.  There wasn’t an ounce of cement for miles.  They had a degree of control over how their house was built, which meant they could make sure they had deep shady porches where domestic work could be done.  I don’t know if they took siestas or anything, but as farmers, they had a degree of control over their work life that urban people don’t. 

I think that’s the tradeoff that makes air conditioning borderline necessary in an urban environment.  If you are poor, you are also likely to face lifestyle restrictions that prevent you from being able to cope with the heat.  And I think that network of restrictions, deprivations, and small oppressions is what kills people in urban heat waves.

Comment #119: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  02:10 PM

People forget that before the advent of A/C, far fewer people were willing or able to live in the American southwest than they are today.

Comment #120: Tyro  on  07/06  at  02:12 PM

Hector B. :

Are facts racist? The Industrial Revolution did not take place in Guyana, nor did the Phillipines produce any great works of philosophy. Further, tropical climates have a stultifying effect even on temperate zone whitey—look at the derivation of “Gone Troppo.”

Yes, why did the Industrial Revolution and the founding philosophies of the world’s major civilisations take place on the planet’s biggest continent in agriculturally productive places that were geographically and topologically predisposed to be centers of intercultural exchange, not to mention settled very early in human history, instead of small islands and archipelagos ?
Must be the climate.

Comment #121: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  02:13 PM

Hector, if you really don’t think any tropical climate every produced any meaningful culture (I’m leaving “industry” out of it, because it would take an anthro 101 course to explain why you’re full of shit on that count), yeah, that’s straight up all-out racist.

Especially if you’re going to spout fucked up judgment calls like “the Philipines produced no great works of philosophy”.  One could just as easily say “the United States has produced no great works of literature”.

Comment #122: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  02:14 PM

Hector also left out that there were plenty of northern countries that were poverty-riddled backwaters until very recently—Scandinavia comes to mind. Norwegians, Swedes, and Danes didn’t move to Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa in the 1800s for no reason! Ireland is another example.

Comment #123: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  02:17 PM

I guess India never produced any meaningful culture.  Or New Orleans, or Mexico.  Nope.

Comment #124: BetsyD  on  07/06  at  02:17 PM

People forget that before the advent of A/C, far fewer people were willing or able to live in the American southwest than they are today.

Then again, the American southwest cannot sustain the population levels it currently has to contend with.  So maybe that was a good thing.  Just because you can pave over a place and crowd it with people doesn’t mean it’s a good thing.

Comment #125: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  02:18 PM

Or New Orleans

I didn’t bring up New Orleans because it’s sort of true that, aside from a few decades before the Civil War and a few decades after the dawn of big oil, New Orleans really has been somewhat of a backwater.  A backwater with a rich cultural heritage, but yeah - I believe the indigenous tribes actually warned Bienville not to choose that particular site for a permanent settlement.

Comment #126: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  02:21 PM

India invented the zero, that’s how stultified they are.

Comment #127: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  02:26 PM

BlackBloc: I suspect some better management of where mass numbers of computers are kept would aid in at least the reduction of a/c usage for keeping hardware cool.

Oh, I’m sure there’s a lot that could be done to resolve the problem if, you know, legislation was put into existence to do such thing or if there was a compelling demonstration that this would reduce costs on the long run for an enterprise and it was not run by fucking beancounters who think it’s more important to give speculators something now than to give long term shareholders better return over 10 years.

But my point is that too often environmentalists only care about nagging average folks about what they’re doing wrong while important, structural issues in large institutions (like corporations) that cause a lot more damage aren’t addressed. I blame it on the overall individualist strain of the American Left, where it’s more important to show that you’re, personally, doing all this petty mostly insignificant stuff to help the environment instead of participating collectively in making non-glamourous changes in how society as a whole is run.

Also, it seems some people can always find satisfaction in berrating the ‘common folks’ for having what few luxuries they do. Most people will never be able to access higher education or afford the food and entertainment the wealthy have, but by God they can at least live in an apartment that doesn’t get sweating hot in the summer.

Comment #128: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  02:29 PM

Your above claim is demonstrably false. Greece, Rome, and Egypt being easy examples.

Greece, Rome and Egypt are all well within the northern temperate zone. Rome (@ 41°54’) is farther north than Providence, Rhode Island (41°50’).

Comment #129: Sarcastro  on  07/06  at  02:31 PM

Rome (@ 41°54’) is farther north than Providence, Rhode Island (41°50’).

Wow, you have no idea how climate works.

Comment #130: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  02:37 PM

Rome, btw, is the furthest north (capital) of those three cultures.  And was considered a humid, malarial death-trap in the pre-AC era.

Comment #131: The Opoponax  on  07/06  at  02:39 PM

Rome (@ 41°54’) is farther north than Providence, Rhode Island (41°50’).

And you seriously think Rome is colder than New England? Really?

I live on the same latitude as the Sahara Desert but I can assure you the weather is not the same!

Comment #132: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  02:40 PM

I am temperature sensitive to heat, so when I finally purchased an AC it was a godsend to me.  Once it hits north of 78 and the humidity starts to rise, my body just wants to shut down.  My apartment building is a poorly constructed monstrosity, it overheats at the slightest provocation.  But As much as I’m a fan of the cold, I’m also a big fan of a teeny tiny electric bill.  So these are my personal steps (aside from those others have already mentioned):

- If weather permits, I open all the windows and have box fans.  I like the sound of the fan more than the AC, and on a good day I can actually make the apartment slightly cooler than it is outside.  Summer usually has cool night, so I can run just the fans.  The cool lasts through morning, so the AC only gets used in the evening when I return from work.  Then once it cools off again outside, back open the windows go.
- I take cold water foot baths in the summer.  They cool the temperature remarkably well and it allows me to either run the AC at a higher temperature.  Plus as long as I’m sitting, I can do this while working at home.
- Summer is mostly cold foods.  Quiches, savory tarts, I learned to make a wide variety of salads.  Cold chickpea salad is a favorite, and I’m starting to experiment with cold soups.

I used to visit Mediterranean-dwelling relatives all summer, but now that I work that’s not possible.  It’s just about the most gorgeous climate I could think of.
Conversely, while I have to work hard to stay cool in the summer, my winter bills are minuscule.  I come from the school of, “put a sweater on,” and rather than turn the heat up in winter, I turn to baking (which warms the apartment and makes it smell like pie).  I think in all I’m breaking even.

Comment #133: ICV2  on  07/06  at  02:40 PM

I’m one of those “you can always put on another layer in the cold, there’s only so much you can take off in the heat” people. I keep my house positively frigid in the winter, running only enough heat so as to keep the pipes from freezing and barely keeping my fingers from falling off.  I own multiple pairs of Acorn socks. Each one uglier than the last. smile

Comment #134: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/06  at  02:41 PM

Well, I got one good idea, which is to research cultural development vs. climate. I note that the Mayans’ Yucatan Peninsula has a largely arid climate—it’s the combination of heat and humidity that paralyzes thought in my experience.

Evaporative cooling can make the desert Southwest pleasant, except for during infrequent summer rains.

Comment #135: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  02:49 PM

My problem with saying “you can always put on another layer in the cold” is that I am allergic to the cold. When I have worked in offices that are overly air conditioned, I’ve had serious problems keeping my hands warm, which is a problem because when my skin gets cold I break out in hives and itch, and after awhile my hands cease to function (I describe it as “clawing up” - basically my fingers curl in, the entire hand cramps, and I can’t do anything until my hands warm up. It only gets really bad when my desk is under an a/c vent, but its amazing how reluctant people are to simply let you move your desk, so much so that I am reluctant to ask (one company fired me after I repeatedly asked if I could have my desk moved (but thank heavens, because that job was a nightmare).

I do understand that for many people the required dress code means they are overly warm, but I feel like there should be a happy medium.

I try not to use my a/c (especially because its an extremely inefficient portable a/c, not a window unit). Because of my temperature issues, I sympathize with people who need to use one. I certainly don’t judge people who can’t survive the heat without it.

Comment #136: LesserPony  on  07/06  at  02:51 PM

Mighty Ponygirl, I’ll see your Acorn socks and raise you several pairs of knitted woolen tights.

Comment #137: ICV2  on  07/06  at  02:51 PM

I know it’s not “fair” or whatever, but the fact is if you’re cold and it’s 72F, you can put on another layer of clothing to get warmer.  If it’s 74 and I’m sweating (and I mean the back of my shirt soaked through) because I’m required to wear a tucked dress shirt (with the sleeves rolled up) and at least Dockers (I’m lucky enough not to be required to actually wear a suit), I can’t disrobe further without being fired.
Comment #112: MikeEss on 07/06 at 12:57 PM

There are some pants less heavy than Dockers—seersucker comes to mind, or linen.  Dress shirts come in all kinds of weights and permeability.  Wear no-show socks if allowed.  Wear shoes that are thinner leather, or that have vents like a spectator or saddle shoe.  Wear looser clothing allover.

Maybe you can put up with a little sweat so your colder co-workers can actually move their fingers and feel their noses.  Get a small fan and put it on your desk.  Put ice bags in your pockets.  Run cold water over your wrist in the men’s room every hour.  Drink cold water.  Sit forward so your back is not touching the backrest of your seat.

Comment #138: oldfeminist  on  07/06  at  02:52 PM

Opoponax, exactly, that’s also why farmworkers tend to die in high-heat days: their movements tend to be very restricted (you’re supposed to be on the same row as everyone else, at the same time as everyone else, otherwise the whole thing doesn’t work), they’re often working in situations where there are conflicting needs like covering your limbs against sun and nicotine poisoning/pesticide exposure versus letting the body breathe, water breaks and bathroom breaks are not at all up to the individual - the more your economic disenfranchisement means that your movements are restricted, the fewer individual adaptations you get to make. In pre-air conditioning times, wealthy people removed themselves to the seashore or the mountains in the summer, leaving poor people to die of heat prostration and food poisoning.

Simple building adaptations like the summer kitchen, the dog-run house (an open breezeway between two halves of the home - I still see new houses like this in Honduras), deep porches and eaves, reasonable proportions between rooms and windows, trees near buildings, vents above doors, etc. achieve a lot, but as you note, control over the way your dwelling is built is an enfranchisement thing. I dislike that what used to be a reasonable non-dumb way to build a house is now Special Green Building What Is Super-Fancy And Expensive.

Hector, thanks for the link.

Comment #139: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  02:56 PM

Also, window screens have probably saved more people from illness and misery than any other human invention.

Comment #140: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  02:57 PM

Then again, the American southwest cannot sustain the population levels it currently has to contend with.

Being from a state which was said not to be able to feed itself after the year 1700, I’m interested in natural limiting factors and population growth.

I genuinely have no idea how accurate this is, but Phoenix’s “cools” appear to be getting warmer. Any truth to this? And if so, what is the limiting factor for the Southwest: Heat or lack of water?

PS Pandagoners (and their forebears) everywhere: Don’t leave out humidity when relating your experiences. I promise not to get jealous of those who consider 60% humid, promise!

Comment #141: ThresherK  on  07/06  at  02:58 PM

Hector B. : How about India ? It’s pretty much the prototype for the stultifying climate makes people stupid trope.

Comment #142: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  02:59 PM

A/C made some places actually liveable, but maybe some of those places really shouldn’t be the sites for major metropolitan cities.  I lived in Phoenix for three years, and literally would have gotten very ill without A/C.  It broke for a week over the summer and I had to be hospitalized for heat exposure, and that was with lots of cold showers, cool drinks, fans running next to blocks of ice, etc.  Personally, I couldn’t wait to get the hell out of Phoenix, but I doubt most of its residents feel that way, and they couldn’t live there without technologies interventions.

Now I live in Long Beach, where most of the year opening the front and back doors keeps a steady breeze running through the house.  In the winter it’s freezing, though, because there is no heating at all so whatever temperature it is outside it is inside.  My Chicago friends mock me for complaining about the winter here, but their houses are kept at around 75 F, whereas mine in the winter can be around 50 F.

Comment #143: Roethke  on  07/06  at  03:09 PM

I tend to freeze, and like a few others upthread, when my hands get cold, they more or less become non-functional.  But heat doesn’t really bother me that much unless it is really extreme.  My husband is the opposite—he really feels heat, but not so much cold.

Right now I live in NW Ohio, and summers usually aren’t all that bad.  We usually will have the AC on for maybe a week total out of the whole summer.  Except this year, it’s been on practically full time for a month.  But that’s because before it got hot, my elderly mother in law was staying with us for several weeks and she wants the AC on more or less constantly.  Anything warmer than 77 degrees outside merits cooling off, as far as she is concerned, even if the humidity is low and there is a nice breeze.  Also, she insists on this even at night—open windows are verboten.  I prefer fresh air at night, though.  And after she left last week, we had it off for a few days, but then we got hit with this heat wave and we’ve had 90+ degree temperatures this week, plus humidity, so the AC has been on now too.  But now that she isn’t here, it stays around 80 degrees inside. 

In winter, the heat rarely goes above 68 degrees, and I bundle up.  But it is damn uncomfortable and if it weren’t for living in an old house and having outrageous heating bills in winter, I’d bump that up to the low 70s pretty regularly.

Comment #144: ks  on  07/06  at  03:10 PM

That should say 75 degrees outside—save me from typos.

Comment #145: ks  on  07/06  at  03:11 PM

I live in an old house, with no central air and I like it that way.  With Window units it’s like you have zoned air.  Just shut of the AC in the rooms that you are not using.  I wish I could have that for the heat too.

Hector - Many of the Maya lived in the lowland tropical region of the Yucatan.  Also, there is the Indian subcontinent.  Most, certainly not all, but most of it is tropical.  Lots of culture in India.

Comment #146: Ron O.  on  07/06  at  03:13 PM

Wearing clothes at home?  How bizarre.  That’s the first step.

Comment #147: Eric_RoM  on  07/06  at  03:14 PM

I just got my Master’s degree in building energy studies, so this conversation has been really interesting. Thanks.

IMHO, it’s borderline impossible to consider giving up HVAC in large parts of the country without redesigning buildings, quite literally, from the ground up. I live in Phoenix, and, yes, the indigenous people of this area lived here for quite a long time without mechanical systems. However, most of their buildings had 2’ thick walls, with no openings on the west. In the south, buildings are often made with wrap-around porches, light frame construction, and are raised to permit air circulation below. Hell, even the igloo is perfectly engineered to its climate. We’ve forgotten many of those lessons; hell, the house I’m sitting in is made of 2x6s, which, in the desert, is asinine. Many old desert cities, such as Sanaa, or Aleppo, are built with very narrow streets, mass construction, courtyard houses, and are quite comfortable. But until our culture decides that building with climate in mind is as important as making sure buildings stand up, turning off your HVAC for a couple hours during the day isn’t really that big of a deal. We can make limited climatic adaptations, maybe can be comfortable at 80 instead of 76, but that’s a drop in the bucket.

And solar panels should be tilted south (in the Northern Hemisphere) at the same angle to the roof as the building’s latitude. Don’t mount ‘em on a flat roof!

Comment #148: baddesignhurts  on  07/06  at  03:15 PM

Hector, Read Guns, Germs, and Steel.

BlackBloc, Most new wind farms are going in on farmland.    Even the ones going up in Texa$ are being put in cattle range or otherwise utilized land.  In cities solar panels could be installed on roof tops or the sides of buildings between windows.  Adding trees would slow the capture of heat by concrete sidewalks.  Building open courts in office buildings would allow for more circulation.  Here in Seattle, the Smith Tower’s lower portion (built in 1914) is U shaped so the building is no more than 2 offices deep.

As for Goolge and other server farms, their newest expansion is on the Oregon side of the Columbia River where it draws water to cool their stacks.  They’re using technology pioneered by the Hanford Nuclear Plant up-river.

Comment #149: cynickal  on  07/06  at  03:19 PM

This challenge should be easy for me since I do not, and have never lived in a home with A/C.

I learned from my dad (he wasn’t all bad) as a kid that the way to cool a house in summer was to open all the windows up at night, let it get real cool, and then in the morning, just before the sun starts beaming hot air into the house, you shut all the windows and draw all the curtains. I got through two summers in the city this way. The third, unfortunately, involved an intractable boyfriend who resisted my system because he refused to deal with the cold at night and the lack of circulation during the day. But even when he wasn’t staying with me, when he came to visit, he, like everyone else, was blown away by how cool I was able to keep my apartment. The effect of the system is cumulative, too. The cooler you can keep it during the day, the faster it will cool at night, so it’s a system you have to be dedicated to.

As a kid I was jealous of other kids who had air conditioned homes, but like you Amanda, I always got cold in them really fast and it was always so dry. =(

Comment #150: Cola82  on  07/06  at  03:23 PM

I find most places that use A/C have it set WAY too high anyway, it’s not pleasant to have to walk around in an icebox of a building, even if its 90 outside. There has to be some kind of happy medium, somehow.

Comment #151: Pietoro  on  07/06  at  03:25 PM

You can move to Hawaii.  That’s what we’ve just done, and it’s great.  The house we’re in doesn’t even have A/C.  We sleep with the windows open, and keep sliding doors wide open during the day to catch the breeze.  And we hardly use the A/C in the car unless we’re dressed up and don’t want to arrive looking wind blown.

Comment #152: Wallace  on  07/06  at  03:32 PM

Now that I’ve been living in Seattle for several years, I have a rather high tolerance for natural cold.  I never turn the heat above 70 even in the dead of winter, and my thermostat rarely goes above 65.  I only occasionally turn it up to 68, usually only on days/nights when I’m less active in the house and/or when I just want to be cozy and warm for a change.

But I still hate air conditioning.  There’s something about that refrigerated air that drives me crazy.  65 degrees from natural cold in winter:  just fine.  68 degrees from an air conditioner:  I feel like I’m freezing to death.

Comment #153: keshmeshi  on  07/06  at  03:32 PM

Radiant cooling capillary systems installed in ceilings can be quite effective (and are quieter than HVAC and avoid the humidity issues), but they’re often difficult to put in after a building’s been built.

Ultimately, though, this is a social problem.

Comment #154: baddesignhurts  on  07/06  at  03:33 PM

In prior years, I would always need to bring a sweater to the movies or the mall. This year, not so much. So I am deducing that pubic spaces are inching their thermostats upward in the a/c months. It’s still cooler than outside, but no longer frigid. (I am studiously ignoring that my no longer needing a sweater may be due to hot flashes. LALALALA)

Comment #155: benvolio  on  07/06  at  03:33 PM

Of course, during this conversation, I’m sitting here with horrid muscle cramping in my lower back and hips because the dratted a/c keeps my office building so cold. I have no idea why my hips and lower back cramp from cold before I experience any other negative side effects, but it sucks. And I have a knit poncho wrapped around my midsection, but it’s not helping much.

Comment #156: hp  on  07/06  at  03:37 PM

Rome, btw, is the furthest north (capital) of those three cultures.  And was considered a humid, malarial death-trap in the pre-AC era.

Which still doesn’t remotely compare to the tropics.  And it’s Rome in summer which is/was the real culprit.  The term “dog days of summer” comes direct from Ancient Rome.

Additionally, Rome, Greece, and especially Egypt had slaves.  It’s easy to build the pyramids in desert heat when you don’t give a shit how many slaves you kill in the process.

Comment #157: keshmeshi  on  07/06  at  03:45 PM

I’m another one of those always cold in office A/C people, and my savior has been fingerless gloves. I’m able to type, and my hands don’t freeze. The ones with the fingers to the first knuckle work the best for me. I would also keep a shawl at the office, which helped a great deal.

Comment #158: Bethynyc  on  07/06  at  03:46 PM

I’m not surprised that Google has some good solutions to the issue, given as their entire business model is centered around this. Most other corporations also need to run server farms, though, and until cloud computing becomes accepted in corporate culture (and there’s reasons why that would be a bad idea, like security issues that arise from keeping the data of lots of companies in the same spot) it means that the same issue ends up being replicated at every office tower in the world. At least a big server farm is a centralized thing. It’s not (politically, economically, culturally) feasible right now to rebuild all office buildings to the specifications needed to keep a server room cold without A/C.

As for my comments on wind farms, I’m mostly pointing out that saving energy does not suddenly become useless the day we stop using fossil fuels. If we look at it as a budget (you can spend so much because you produce so much), fossil fuel usage is sort of like spending your savings because your lifestyle cannot be sustained only from your wages. Eventually you run out, then what do you do? Putting up more into wind and solar and renewable ressources is sort of like getting a wage increase. But if you’re still spending more than you gain, well you’ll still have to dig in your savings. So why waste?

Comment #159: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  03:49 PM

I couldn’t agree more with this post. The whole culture and mentality that supports this sort of thing is aggravatingly alien to me, although where I live you get way more of the other side of it - people way overheating rooms in the Winter. There is seriously no reason you should ever wear a T-shirt when it’s snowing outside.

We waste way too much energy trying to make the environment conform to our comfort rather than incrementally alter our habits and dress to adapt to the environment we find ourself in. It’s a major problem.

Comment #160: August Fifteenth  on  07/06  at  03:52 PM

“Hector B. : How about India ? It’s pretty much the prototype for the stultifying climate makes people stupid trope.”

...um, WTF?  What are you trying to say here?

India had advanced culture when many Europeans were still hunters wearing animal skins to keep from freezing.  At least two of the world’s great religions hail from India.  There are great philosophical schools of thought in India that go back thousands of years.  For all we westerners point to Egypt and Greece as early civilized cultures, we forget that Indian and Chinese cultures are at least as old and were at least as advanced…

Remember the (possibly apocryphal) cliche Ghandi quote:
Reporter: “Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of Western civilization?”
Gandhi: “I think it would be a good idea!”...

Comment #161: MikeEss  on  07/06  at  03:54 PM

Mike I think that was sarcasm, re: India. At least I hope so.

Comment #162: Ben D.  on  07/06  at  03:58 PM

My take:
a) Hector’s claim about the effects of heat on civilization does not seem verifiable, unlike Jared Diamond’s which seem to be well documented

b) there is in fact an old racist trope about how Europeans *genetically* evolved to be superior civilized beings due to the cold climate

c) if it wasn’t for b), though, unless somebody defending it specifically mentionned how the heat affected the genetic intelligence of these populations, I would not see that supposition as any more racist than Jared Diamond’s environmental explanations for how civilizations developped

d) I’m inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to Hector that he meant it purely as an environmental constraint and not to refer these discredited racist tropes or an evolutionary psychology claim or some such, but then I don’t really remember his posting history so I might just be naive to do so

Comment #163: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  04:04 PM

uilding materials probably play a huge re in this.  Brick houses seem to stay much cooler but they are not as profitable to build so it is easier to throw in central AC and let the homeowne deal with the expense.

it seems that theor really isn’t a cheap way to biuld houses it is more just a matter of how the costs get spread out.

Comment #164: John Rove  on  07/06  at  04:04 PM

sorry for all the typos

Comment #165: John Rove  on  07/06  at  04:06 PM

...um, WTF?  What are you trying to say here?

That the stultifying climate makes people stupid was invented by British colonists in India. I could very easily be wrong on that one but let’s say I’ve seen India spoken of in that way a lot in a certain kind of book. (offhand : “La Mousson” whatever it’s called in English, “The Little Princess”...)
This was supposed to contrast with the fact (referred to several times in previous posts including one of mine) that India is also a well-known bastion of science in culture going back to antiquity, hence being the poster child of a counter-example for Hector.

Comment #166: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  04:09 PM

I mean, “that the stultifying climate makes people stupid stereotype was invented by British colonists in India”.

Comment #167: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  04:10 PM

There is seriously no reason you should ever wear a T-shirt when it’s snowing outside.

Thermostats are often cranked up because the people feel cold even though the air temperature is actually warm. If we could heat (and cool) the people, instead of the space and the structure, we could save a lot of energy.

Comment #168: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  04:11 PM

I’m a woman who prefers things to be near-frigid if possible.  My mom kept our AC at about 80 growing up, and I wanted to shake her.

I don’t notice it much during the day, but at night I drop my bedroom unit to 70, much to the uberskinny boyfriend’s chagrin.

I also live in Houston, so that compounds my cooling problem.  Thank god for the trees outside and the insulation.

Comment #169: upfish  on  07/06  at  04:17 PM

None of my friends live in houses that can be cooled aside from AC.  That’s a problem, too.

Comment #170: Crissa  on  07/06  at  04:18 PM

c) if it wasn’t for b), though, unless somebody defending it specifically mentionned how the heat affected the genetic intelligence of these populations, I would not see that supposition as any more racist than Jared Diamond’s environmental explanations for how civilizations developped

It isn’t just the involvment of genetics that makes it a racist claim, it’s basically that the claim says something about the people in the places involved, unlike Jared Diamond’s claims which are structural. That is, the claim is that tropical climates aren’t conducive to civilisation because they make people stupid and lazy, whereas Jared Diamond claims that small, isolated or agriculturally unsuitable environments aren’t conducive to civilization not because of the inhabitant’s intelligence or other character trait, but because they can’t build up big populations or share advances with other peoples.

To be fair Diamond does make some claims about the people involved, but aside from resistance to disease they don’t affect his point.

Comment #171: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  04:19 PM

Caravelle, no harm, no foul.

I’m particularly sensitive to that trope because of my wife and many of the people I know (and love) who are from that general vicinity.  It gets tiresome when some (typically American) asshole goes off about how great Western (especially American) Civilization is… just before they go to a NASCAR race or a WWF “event”...

Comment #172: MikeEss  on  07/06  at  04:20 PM

I’m of two minds on this, because I overheat easily.

On the other hand, I’ve never asked for office anything to be below 72, so I think I’m being too worried.

Anyways, a good compromise is to A/C one room and go in and out of it to keep regularly cool.

Comment #173: Punditus Maximus  on  07/06  at  04:24 PM

@MikeEss: Yeah, I’ve been overdoing the obscure sarcasm in this discussion I think ^^
On Nascar and WWF : haven’t your friends told you that civilisation is all about the bread and circuses ?
(argh, I’m doing it again…)
(although speaking of civilisation and circuses I’ve been thinking I really have to get into Bollywood movies one of these days)

Comment #174: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  04:26 PM

Not that I necessarily agree that heat and humidity quash intellectual development, but I do find baffling the idea that an entire subcontinent (India) has one all-encompassing climate.  Have you never heard of the climate varying according to altitudes or proximity to the ocean shore?

And, for what it’s worth, in areas that get extremely hot and lack air conditioning, all productive activities completely shut down between late morning and late afternoon.  That’s not such a big deal when hot days last for a few months, but when they last a good part of the year/all year?

Although, if anything, it seems like sitting around and sipping tea all day would be particularly conducive to intellectual development, if not economic development.

Comment #175: keshmeshi  on  07/06  at  04:27 PM

Architecture certainly was a lot better back when you had to take heat, cold, and air flow into consideration when designing a building.

Comment #176: ttintagel  on  07/06  at  04:31 PM

I really am surprised that solar panels aren’t more popular in AC environment, as they would produce peak power during the same period that AC would be most required, and that the install cost would be offset by the savings in electric costs. Es[pecially areas like Southern CA and the US desert, where there’s so much sprawl to begin with.

Unfortunately, there needs to be a fundamental shift in home design to get away from the cheap energy mentality that power them.

Comment #177: Left_Wing_Fox  on  07/06  at  04:31 PM

Also, I’m one of those people who in shorts and tank top will swelter at 72F.  Once it hit 72F at the store, I’d turn on the fans and open the doors.  If it went to 76F I might close the doors and hit the AC - but mostly because the display windows would turn it into a greenhouse, and that wouldn’t be fun at all.

Comment #178: Crissa  on  07/06  at  04:32 PM

Why is this: “a reduction in honey consumption actually means fewer, not more bees and gets us deeper into the bee shortage crisis” true? Is it because less honey consumption = fewer people beekeeping? I have had no luck Googling.

Comment #179: lisas  on  07/06  at  04:32 PM

i, I’m not sure I know anyone who uses AC in their home.

ii, We worry about heating here, and notoriously tolerate lower temperatures than most people in our homes.  Currently I’m using a simple oil inductive heater.

iii, These are the benefits of using the south South Pacific as a heatsink.

iv, It is now raining and cold, and I am discovering that my back pains seem to be worse in the cold mornings.

v, I wanna house-swap with Amanda.

Comment #180: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  07/06  at  04:37 PM

@Caravelle: I agree. By genetics I meant any essential characteristic, really. I just didn’t notice that they were claims about the people (I missed that). I mean, heat does makes me lazy… temporarily, not as an essential characteristic of my person.

Also, I don’t have as much of a kneejerk problem with the term ‘lazy’ because as a computer programmer we consider it a virtue (though the work ethic driven amongst us use the term ‘efficient’ instead wink) and as an anarchist I consider lazyness to be both a virtue AND a basic human right. smile

Comment #181: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  04:42 PM

I grew up in greater Boston where it can get miserably hot and humid in the summertime. I don’t think we even had a fan in the house until I was well into my teens. I never used AC at all until I was pregnant, and then it was a window unit and only one room was cool. I moved to Colorado 5 years ago, and while it can get hot, it’s usually not humid, and it generally cools off at night. But since I work from home, after one fairly miserable summer I had central air installed. I have asthma, which triggers from heat and humidity, and I have MS, which means getting overheated is dangerous for me. So I love my AC, and I keep the house cool (I have a lot of open space and large windows that capture the afternoon sun, so the temp on the AC setting and the temp in the house are rarely in synch). I guess I make up for it by keeping the heat low in the winter. They’re both set to 66. At that temp, in the late afternoon and evening it’s well above 70 in my house even with the curtains drawn. In the winter, I live in fleece. I stay warm without overheating. My son, year round, always has a heavy robe over whatever he is wearing when he’s home. He hates the cold. But AC is a health issue for me, so I refuse to feel guilty about it, especially since I work from home.

Comment #182: Broce  on  07/06  at  04:44 PM

“Is it because less honey consumption = fewer people beekeeping?”

I assume, because honey comes from commercial beekeeping, which has been around for a very long time.  Beekeepers take bees where the crops are, both for the benefit of the crops (crop pollination for which they are often paid) and for making honey.  Like many domesticated animals, bees are typically highly dependent on humans…

Comment #183: MikeEss  on  07/06  at  04:46 PM

Why is this: “a reduction in honey consumption actually means fewer, not more bees and gets us deeper into the bee shortage crisis” true? Is it because less honey consumption = fewer people beekeeping? I have had no luck Googling.

As a former vegan (of the ‘not eating honey’ variety) I thought that was a weak dig. If you’re going to be fair, you’d claim the same thing about cows (no burgers = a lot less cow in the world being raised for meat) and it would sound pretty silly to an ‘ethical’ (as opposed to ‘health woo’) vegan.

Ecologists could certainly work on preserving the bee population in the wild instead of humans necessarily having to exploit their labor to do so.

Comment #184: BlackBloc  on  07/06  at  04:46 PM

Another thing not pointed out, is that even if you have the AC at some reasonable temperature, the method of big office structures is to have pipes of cold air blowing into a big area which is being used completely without deference to the plan of the air circulation.  Someone by the window might be boxed in, and their cubical might be ten higher than someone against the wall, or where several people are boxed together, rather than one sitting out in the open.

Whoever is nearest to the outlet of the cold air is going to be very much colder.  It’s not an even temperature across the room!

Comment #185: Crissa  on  07/06  at  04:49 PM

The “high temperatures = slow brains” thing is, on a cultural level, baloney.  However lame any given one of us might feel on a hot day isn’t a means to conduct social history.

However, high temperatures were not ideal for early industrial societies, but excellent for for pre-industrial ones.  There’s a reason why early civilizations were in India and the Mesopotamian and Egypt while ignoring Scotland, Sweden, and Saskatchewan:  you can make a lot more food and get a lot more people around in a warm climate.  Pre-industrial winters killed far more people than pre-industrial summers ever could.  Once you had all those people around, you could start doing things like building cities and getting some civilization started.

However, you can run a factory all year round in any part of the world, and without air conditioning, you’re going to kill fewer of your workers in cooler temperatures (generally speaking).  Additionally, once you need people living in industrial-sized tenements, your food is going to be a lot more prone to contamination, and diseases have a lot of tropical roots because of the general biodiversity.  So just about at the time the British showed up in India, they did so in a window where cool climates offered a distinct advantage, and boy, did they press it. 

That advantage is mostly gone now with air conditioning and refrigeration, and it absolutely never made people smarter or dumber on any scale.

Comment #186: Loch Ness Monster  on  07/06  at  04:51 PM

Left Wing Fox, the reason people don’t mount more solar panels is because almost everyone has a roofing warranty that prohibits it. No joke, I’ve tried to get solar panels on both residential and public buildings for years in various contexts, but while people like the idea of getting their energy bills down, the savings aren’t equal to the potential cost of losing their roof warranty.

Comment #187: purpleshoes  on  07/06  at  04:52 PM

I think that the state of being “too hot to think” is a universal human characteristic. Imagine if you were too hot to think all the time. Would you eventually overcome and start thinking again? Or would you just drink iced tea and flip through Entertainment Weekly?

The logical thing to do when it’s too hot to think is just take a nap, which leads to the great coping mechanism of the siesta.

Comment #188: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  04:52 PM

There is seriously no reason you should ever wear a T-shirt when it’s snowing outside.

Well, I like wearing a tshirt at home. It’s comfortable. I like being able to warm my home up enough so that I can be comfortable. I really don’t like the feeling of being cold.

Comment #189: Tyro  on  07/06  at  04:54 PM

Why can’t the solar panels be the roofing material?

Comment #190: Hector B.  on  07/06  at  04:55 PM

In the European heatwave of 2003 I was living in a 1930’s flat that, even with all the windows open, had zero airflow. It was miserable.

A couple of years later, in a nearly as hot summer, I was living in an Edwardian terraced house - and stepping through the front door was like walking into a fridge. The building, its orientation, its windows, its materials, simply made it cooler.

As many people have said, there are venerable and successful methods of building that can mitigate a lot of the effects of extreme heat.  But we’ve forgotten to use them.  With energy issues coming to the forefront, it’s about time we remembered to use them - and then the issue of whether to put on the AC would come up less often in the first place.

Comment #191: Katherine  on  07/06  at  04:56 PM

However, my “no AC/heating” winter challenge explicitly allowed the japanese heated table (look up “kotatsu”).

I am jealous of your kotatsu.

We’re on year 2 of no AC, mostly because the crummy little window unit never worked all that well.  Ohio has been giving us some lovely weather with all the rain, so I’ve only had a few days to grumble about so far.  I get by with nudity, three “turbo” fans pointed directly at me, and sleeping through the hottest part of the day.  Generally by the time the humidity makes things unbearable, we have a thunderstorm and go back to the mid 70’s.  I really don’t miss Florida at all.

The only bad part about leaving the windows open all the time is the amount of noise from my neighbors and our obsessive lawn mowing building manager.  At least the woman who kept murdering opera moved out, if I had to hear her fumble Mozart again this year I’d have killed her.

Unfortunately I’m still incredibly heat sensitive and I still have chest pains when things creep into the 90’s.  If I were to lose power entirely and not have the fans, I’d probably have to spend the day wedged into a cold bath for my own health.

Oh, we have windows that crank to open out with the screen on the inside, so we covered the glass with white contact paper.  We get plenty of light, but it’s mostly indirect, and that has made the difference.  Plus the neighbors that haven’t yet learned not to look up don’t get the full naked horror show.

Comment #192: Godless Heathen  on  07/06  at  04:56 PM

I work in job that requires me to where a suit and if I do not wear a suit, I can get pretty seriously reprimanded for inapprorpriate attire. There is no way that the suit requirement is going to drop any time in my life considering the feelings about dress in my profession. This means that A/C is like mana for people in my profession because wearing a suit, even a summer one, during a heat wave is really hellish. The problem is that that lighter color suits are no longer considered fashionable or even work appropriate. If I could get away with a white or at least a light colored suit, it wouldn’t be so bad.

I also think that the reduce/anti-A/C people are not really considering the problems caused by excessibve heat waves. I generally try to keep the A/C off unless the temperature outside reaches in the low 90s but turn it on when it does. Before A/C people in the cities tried to avoid being inside during the summer for a reason and people, young and old, rich and poor, did die because of the heat. We are having a serious heat wave in New York and without A/C most places would be unlivable.

  Hector’s comments about civilization and climate are really racist BTW. The, Mayans, Southern Indians, and the various peoples of South East Asia reached very high standards of civilization in the tropics.

Comment #193: Lee  on  07/06  at  05:01 PM

Could we compromise on building places that CAN be kept comfortable with less AC and heating, and then including the AC and heating systems for those that need them? If we’re very smart, they could be zoned too.

I am one of those people who doesn’t function when it is hot and humid (which it often is, in Ottawa summers) and I have never had the luxury of AC at home. Living without it when it is over 28C and sticky—and today it feels like 42C outside—is miserable. So how about we agree that keeping things around summer-comfortable level (25C or so) is okay? Needing to take 3-4 showers a day to not get heat rashes is a waste of resources too.

Comment #194: Bronwyn  on  07/06  at  05:20 PM

The local power company offers the Saver’s Switch program, free to those with central air (not me, which doesn’t stop them from calling every month asking us to sign up). It allows the utility to cycle your A/C on the hottest days of the year. Seems like a good example of the middle ground/small steps discussed here….maybe, if people don’t notice those “cycles” being noticeably hotter, they’ll be more inclined to cycle it off voluntarily. Though some newspaper letter-writers hate it. They also hate the tiered electricity rates based on usage Xcel implemented this summer, which reminded me of the carrot vs stick post here from several months ago. I’m all for both ideas. But then, I’m weird in that I was excited to move to a house with garbage cans instead of alley dumpsters, as it forces us to realize exactly how much garbage we produce each week.

Comment #195: Shiny  on  07/06  at  05:21 PM

“Why is this: “a reduction in honey consumption actually means fewer, not more bees and gets us deeper into the bee shortage crisis” true? Is it because less honey consumption = fewer people beekeeping?”

Fewer people beekeeping, what beekeepers there are not having any particular reason to maintain their hive populations above what’s necessary to pollinate crops, fewer early warnings of problems with the bee populations (fungus/mite epidemics, new predators).  And bees, unlike beef cattle, serve a pretty vital function in terms of plant reproduction, so we definitely do want more, not fewer, of them buzzing around.

Comment #196: preying mantis  on  07/06  at  05:29 PM

None of my friends live in houses that can be cooled aside from AC.  That’s a problem, too.

I think that’s the ongoing structural problem we’ve been having as a society.  We take these things—cars, A/C, processed food—which are supposed to be expensive occasional things to cover gaps (and work wonderfully in that context) and start using them so much that we can’t get by without constant usage.

I don’t really know the solution; now that it’s considered gauche to try to budget or save money, the last of the sane economic incentives are gone, too.

Comment #197: Punditus Maximus  on  07/06  at  05:35 PM

Wow, you have no idea how climate works.

Odd coming from someone who obviously doesn’t know what temperate means.

Comment #198: Sarcastro  on  07/06  at  06:01 PM

The idea that you can’t generate enough electrictiy renewably to run air conditioners is nonsense.  The land taken up to generate a kWh of of electricity via sun or wind is lower than that taken up by coal, and a hell of a lot less than that taken up by hydro. So more than half our electricity today is generated by means more land intensive than solar and wind.

What is true is that you are not going to phase out fossil fuels with too much fetishism of “small is beautiful”. Wind electricity needs to be generated in large wind farms and transmitted via HVDC lines to where it is consumed. Solar cells are still expensive. So most solar will probably be via focusing desert sun via mirrors to drive heat engines.

Here is a link to the article http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-path-to-sustainable-energy-by-2030

And since it is behind a pay wall here is a link to a PDF
http://greenvsummit.com/assets/files/sustainablefuture_2030_jacobson.pdf

Comment #199: Gar Lipow  on  07/06  at  06:03 PM

The privilege of youth and good health is really showing in this thread.

I live in a city with cold winters, in an older community where few buildings have central air conditioning, and many people are elderly and living on fixed incomes.  With the current heat wave, there is serious concern of people dying.  Public buildings are setting up cooling spaces, with air conditioning, and everyone is being encouraged to check on elderly and disabled friends and neighbors.

When you have five months of uninterrupted serious cold, you build for that, not the occasional week of very hot. 

But “just turn off the AC” is advice that can and will kill.  And any discussion that doesn’t include this real risk, and the reality that the danger hits in areas where you have to build and plan for a cold winter even more than for an occasional hot summer day, is pretty useless.

Comment #200: Ursula L  on  07/06  at  06:06 PM

“now that it’s considered gauche to try to budget or save money, the last of the sane economic incentives are gone, too.”

Is it?  I thought it was now considered gauche to flaunt your means in front of neighbors who’ve likely had to cut back.

At least when I was growing up, Florida tended to encourage people who didn’t need a/c to use less by appealing to the idea that, well, having black outs was going to kill your grandparents.  Not in so many words, of course, but it wasn’t hard to connect the dots between “Everyone wasting electricity will push the system past capacity” and “The elderly and infirm are at risk of severe injury or death due to an inability to escape the summer heat”.  Especially since the power monopoly’s cycle-off initiative (you get a rebate if you let them hook up a unit that cycles off certain appliances during high-use periods) was specifically pitched as everybody chipping in to allow the provider to keep supplying people who couldn’t tolerate an outage and the attendant humidity and temperature rise.

Comment #201: preying mantis  on  07/06  at  06:15 PM

Ursula, keep in mind as well that “heat” events are also “smog” events in many parts of the world - something that they did NOT used to be.  People die of heart attacks, stroke, and people living with COPD die from respiratory stress as a result of the pollution that comes with the heat and, sometimes, the combined effects.

Air conditioning removes both heat and many outdoor pollutants, hence air conditioning prevalence is considered to be a must-use variable for controlling for the effects of pollution in a population, as well as a marker of socioeconomic status effects.

Comment #202: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  06:22 PM

Something else to note: the “tropically adapted” peoples who built the South before AC were kidnapped and brought to the South specifically for doing all the hardest labor on the hottest of days, and kept in economic and political bondage after they were supposedly emancipated so that they would continue to assume all the risks of that labor.

Note as well that these people were specifically selected and targetted in part for their purported heat resistance.

Comment #203: Ms Kate  on  07/06  at  06:28 PM

Hector, solar panels are a crappy roofing material because they’re panels, and water can get through the seams. They aren’t structural and are in fact pretty fragile, so if a tree branch or snow fell on them, they could break. They certainly can’t stand up to being walked on regularly. Their capacity to produce power also diminishes over time, so they need relatively frequent replacement, whereas a roof can last decades if built well. And they only work at peak efficiency when pointed south at a specific angle or when mounted on trackers, so covering a whole roof in solar panels would be really wasteful.

Thin-film photovoltaics can be plastered all over roofs or walls or shutters, but those are far less efficient than mono- or poly-crystalline panels.

Comment #204: baddesignhurts  on  07/06  at  06:28 PM

The privilege of youth and good health is really showing in this thread.

Yup. I look like a healthy person (and am young) but my chronic health problems are exacerbated by heat. I live in the Pacific Northwest near Seattle, definitely not the hottest place in the world, and routinely spend the hottest weeks of the summer practically out of commission every day until about 8pm, when it cools down.

That said, I’m fortunate to live in a house that was built before AC was a thing in the world, and it handles our summers pretty well (especially because a generation or so ago someone had the foresight to plant a tree on the south side of the house). With window fans and blinds, and judicious management of anything that generates heat, I manage okay—but I absolutely, positively, could not fault someone else with my condition for installing or using AC. I imagine a hundred years ago I would have been one of those “invalids” who took to my bed or had to be schlepped off to the seaside every summer.

Now that we have AC, if it helps someone to be productive and energetic I’m all for it.

Comment #205: kristin  on  07/06  at  06:30 PM

To do without A/C you need different housing; maybe different living style. Or so it was when I was a child in Southern Europe.
Insulated walls (my favorite is 50cm thick stone), windows with shutters that you keep closed in the day when the sun would otherwise shine in, ceiling fans. And balconies to sleep on (or sit and chat with neighbours on) when at midnight the temperature hasn’t yet dropped below 32C.
No cooking! Delicious meals prepared in the fridge (e.g., gazpacho, panzanella, raw vegetables in a light vinaigrette - fruit, ice cream and granita al caffé). No working but napping in the hottest hours of a day; staying awake into the night. Ice cream, water with ice and mint syrup, studying for the last school weeks with my fit a in basin full of water.
As the outside temperature passes the 40C mark, stay home, wear next to nothing, and sit on a cool stone floor.

Comment #206: damigiana  on  07/06  at  06:33 PM

fit = feet. And I don’t even have the excuse that it’s hot.

Comment #207: damigiana  on  07/06  at  06:35 PM

Again, as this article by two leading experts suggests, we can easily produce all the power we need (including for air conditioning) with renewable energy

http://greenvsummit.com/assets/files/sustainablefuture_2030_jacobson.pdf

Again though, it mostly won’t be rooftop renewables, but big wind and solar farms. And tinkering with markets won’t produce this. We will need a huge public infrastructure investment. Maybe we could shut down a few wars to pay for it.

Comment #208: Gar Lipow  on  07/06  at  06:49 PM

The land taken up to generate a kWh of of electricity via sun or wind is lower than that taken up by coal, and a hell of a lot less than that taken up by hydro. So more than half our electricity today is generated by means more land intensive than solar and wind.

And the land taken up by oil production is a hell of a lot less than that taken up by solar or wind.  So your point is what?  That by picking and choosing numbers you can get a result that supports your predetermined conclusion?

And I say that as someone who doesn’t like coal very much.

(And solar and wind really compares badly to nuclear, even if you count the mines.)

Comment #209: KeithM  on  07/06  at  07:06 PM

“We will need a huge public infrastructure investment. Maybe we could shut down a few wars to pay for it.”

Why do you hate America?  And why do you hate all those Afghanis and Iraqis (not to mention Americans) who are now so damn free — thanks to our extreme commitment to Freedom and Liberty and Democracy — they aren’t even living any more?

We can’t afford “renewable energy”, reduced carbon footprint, trees that aren’t cut down, mountains that aren’t leveled, seas that are un-oiled, wildlife refuges that are un-drilled, streams that run free, air that isn’t polluted, water that is safe — just like we can’t afford healthcare, or Social Security, or welfare, or anything provided by government.

The only things we can afford now are deregulation, tax cuts, and unlimited corporate “free speech”.  Didn’t you read the memo?...

Comment #210: MikeEss  on  07/06  at  07:16 PM

BlackBloc, I think the difference is that bees are required for the cultivation of fruits and vegetables.  Maybe a person who doesn’t eat those things would be indifferent to CCD and the bee shortage in general (I think that would be analogous to a vegan’s lack of concern that less beef means fewer cows) but vegans eat fruits and vegetables. 

An aside: I am with vegans as far as meat, dairy, and eggs, but I never got the honey thing.  Supermarket strawberries and corn require the exploitation of bees just as much as honey does.  And beekeepers don’t keep bees around by force, or else we wouldn’t be seeing CCD.

Comment #211: mamram  on  07/06  at  07:19 PM

Amanda, the “belief that everyone should have the AC going full blast” was only a belief in the South to begin with.  Every Northerner I know thinks they are nuts down there, the way they AC the hell out of everything.  Many, many Northern homes and schools don’t have AC.  I think this is another example of how you tend to take the cultural norms of Texas and/or the South and think they are universal.

Comment #212: Susanne  on  07/06  at  07:26 PM

>And the land taken up by oil production is a hell of a lot less than that taken up by solar or wind.  So your point is what?

Exactly what I said. In response to people who said that if we switch to renewables we would need to give up air conditioning (and apparently refrigeration) I was simply pointing out that we do have the ability to use renewables for that purpose, because done properly they use no more land than means we generate more than half our electricity with now. By the way, we use almost no oil for electricity, for various really good reasons. The cases where oil makes even narrow economic sense for electricity generation are far and few between (not zero in case you want to nit pick, but exceptions).

In terms of nukes, well that is another reply to the argument that we need to give up air conditioning, or cut it drasctically to the point where we lower peoples comfort level. Nuclear does use less land than renewables (though not as much as you think, once not only mining, but pollution from mining is counted) but it has other problems. I don’t want to derail this thread with a nuke vs. renewables argument, but I just think the idea that land use issue preclude non-fossil fuel generation of electricity for air condition is absurd.

Comment #213: Gar Lipow  on  07/06  at  07:47 PM

Solar panels can last decades if built properly.  Shingles and tiles are well, tiles with gaps between them.  Tiles can break if walked upon.

Any case you make against solar panels as roofing can be made against some type of roofing.

(This is mostly of mind because I’m looking at various types of tiles to replace my roof.)

Comment #214: Crissa  on  07/06  at  08:01 PM

Personally, I’m having to heat my house on this lovely day.  Alas, it was still foggy up here in the hills at noon, so our side of the valley didn’t warm up from the sun.  We were sitting at 62F at noon while it was 76F 700’ and a mile south.

Comment #215: Crissa  on  07/06  at  08:04 PM

Keshmeshi

Not that I necessarily agree that heat and humidity quash intellectual development, but I do find baffling the idea that an entire subcontinent (India) has one all-encompassing climate.  Have you never heard of the climate varying according to altitudes or proximity to the ocean shore?

Indeed, I even happen to know that northern India is close to if not in the Himalayas and that there might be some kind of arid plateau in the country as well. That’s why I went to look up India’s history on Wikipedia to see if there was a mention of all of India’s civilisation coming from cold and arid places, and from the article it appeared that India’s “golden age” was spread over many kingdoms for one thing, and some of them were in Southern India for another. Granted, I didn’t cross-reference this with India’s geography to check my intuition that Southern India being closer to the sea and the Equater would have tropicalish climate, so that was thoughtless of me.

And, for what it’s worth, in areas that get extremely hot and lack air conditioning, all productive activities completely shut down between late morning and late afternoon.  That’s not such a big deal when hot days last for a few months, but when they last a good part of the year/all year?

Although, if anything, it seems like sitting around and sipping tea all day would be particularly conducive to intellectual development, if not economic development.

And indeed people from the Meditarrenean used that very argument to explain why they were the source of civilisation. And people from Northern countries used the very same argument, transplanted to “huddled around the fire in winter” to explain why they were the source of all civilisation even though they weren’t. That’s why it’s a just-so story with no explanatory power whatsoever.

Comment #216: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  08:09 PM

Amanda, I can endorse the boxer shorts idea from personal experience. That and sports bras make it possible for me to live in my uninsulated, non-AC, 100-yr-old house in southern Missouri summers. I’m lucky that my city is on a plateau which seems to mitigate some of the heat. Oddly, my hot flashes seem to diminish when they have to compete with air temperature smile. I have lots of fans; more since my whole-house fan quit last year and I haven’t gotten around to taking it apart to see if it’s salvageable. Low income is an effective discipline in energy conservation. The AC discussion doesn’t take much time when you simply can’t afford it, and there’s nothing remarkable about a 55-degree house in the winter when you can’t pay $300/mo utility bills.

Comment #217: brettvk  on  07/06  at  08:21 PM

Hector B. :

I think that the state of being “too hot to think” is a universal human characteristic. Imagine if you were too hot to think all the time. Would you eventually overcome and start thinking again? Or would you just drink iced tea and flip through Entertainment Weekly?

Again, saying “I’d be stupid and lazy too in a tropical climate” doesn’t make the claim non-racist (although it is less egregious racist than the alternative, I’ll give you that). The point is that the claim attributes tropical people’s lack of civilisational achievements to a lack of thinking. Be it for ircumstancial or genetic reasons, the claim is still that they’re not thinking. Not only is that a big thing to assume, as always when you assume certain groups of people are deficient in humanity’s defining trait, but given how poorly it stands up to the evidence and given the better explanations out there for the data there’s just no objective reason to cling to that theory.

BlackBloc :

Also, I don’t have as much of a kneejerk problem with the term ‘lazy’ because as a computer programmer we consider it a virtue (though the work ethic driven amongst us use the term ‘efficient’ instead wink) and as an anarchist I consider lazyness to be both a virtue AND a basic human right. smile

Friend ! :D
Unfortunately, you just know the people who came up with the “tropical people don’t have civilisation because of the heat” arguments were into the Protestant Work Ethic thingy.
Frankly, as for the details of why Hector’s claim is racist I’m just working through my own instincts on the matter as I comment, other than knowing of the alternatives kthx to Jared Diamond I don’t have any deep knowledge of the subject. So insofar as I make sense, great, but I’m not an authority on racism or anything wink

Comment #218: Caravelle  on  07/06  at  08:50 PM

Living in Atlanta, it’s a constant battle between the oppressive heat and humidity and the ridiculous temperatures office and stores set. My office is so cold I keep a fleece pullover there year-round, and sometimes I bring socks. On the other hand, it’s enormously hot, and our city has not done a good job of building for the climate. I don’t think it helps that we were a backass country town until after AC was invented, and most of our pre-climate control buildings didn’t survive the population explosion (or Sherman).

I do try to watch the AC. It helps that the apartment backs onto a woodsy area and we don’t get much sunlight, but when it’s been over 100 F for several weeks running, it’s tough.

Comment #219: stonebiscuit  on  07/06  at  08:52 PM

Crissa, tiles and shingles aren’t actually what keep water out on a roof, they just weigh down the roofing membrane underneath. When they’re put on properly, they overlap, to keep as much strain off the membrane as possible. If you did something similar with solar panels, you’d be wasting a lot of expensive material overlapping them. And yes, some solar panels can be made extra-strong (there’s some new products on the parket with structural glass), but, again, that’s a considerable expense that most likely isn’t needed. Typical products that the vast majority of consumers can afford aren’t structural, and the more efficient monocrystalline panels are very fragile. And yes, the panels can last decades. The problem is that all of them, over time, diminish in capacity, and need replacement, even if they’re still functioning, whereas a well-constructed roof will last much longer for much less cost.

And again, the orientation of the building makes a huge difference. If your building doesn’t get much southern sun, there’s very little point to getting a panel system at all. And the angle makes a huge difference. If you have a 1:12 roof pitch and you put solar panels on it, you might never create enough power to offset the cost, depending on other conditions. In that case, which is fairly common, it would be pretty wasteful to use panels in lieu of, say, a standing-seam roof. The vast majority of panel systems on a small scale (single-family homes, small office buildings, etc.) are mounted on an armature, either directly on a roof, or used to make a small shade structure, like over a deck of some sort. Positioning them is key, and the average small building owner looking to put on some solar panels isn’t going to be able to completely restructure their building.

Comment #220: baddesignhurts  on  07/06  at  08:57 PM

The cheapest, easiest way to reduce a/c use is to paint roofs white, especially flat, black tar roofs found on urban area apartment buildings. Another simple answer is roof-top gardens. But long-term, as Amanda points out @61 the limits of fossil fuels will end a/c.

We have a/c, as well as private automobiles and suburbia and malls and all the other accoutrements of modern life, because energy has been cheap… especially the energy that comes to us as crude oil. But as the Gulf oil spew should make clear, oil companies are now rooting around in the sofa, looking for loose change. The cheap, easy oil era is quickly drawing to a close. And with it will go not only a/c, but also private automobiles and malls and suburbia.

Comment #221: revrick  on  07/06  at  09:19 PM

I hate air conditioning! I hate it. I am constantly freezing to death in the summer. I have a theory that the A/C temperature is set to accommodate men in wool business suits. So because I’ve acclimated to summer temperatures and wearing appropriate summer clothing, I freeze every time I walk into a building. My apartment gets pretty hot because we run a lot of computers, so I set the A/C to about 80F come mid-June, because Nebraska gets both insanely hot and very humid.

Comment #222: Entomologista  on  07/06  at  09:29 PM

I’ve long thought about putting solar panels on my roof.  I have what I think is a perfect setup:  south-facing roof, no trees in the way, full sun most of the day.  The only problem is the cost.  Solar panels are ridiculously expensive to install, from what I hear.  Also, we do get the occasional hailstorm here in Dallas…I’m not sure I could get my insurance to cover it.

Comment #223: liberalrob  on  07/06  at  09:41 PM

This is a kinda weird discussion to read, being from the Northwest all my life (save college.) Having A/C in one’s home seems really rare, to me—I’m used to a decent amount of greenery, more than a little breeze off the various bodies of water, and all in all it doesn’t get above 90 particularly often.

Hence all the bitching from a year ago, when the NW had that 107-110F heat wave. We are seriously not prepared for that kind of weather—I recall a lot of pomposity* from the rest of y’all then, because we were “whining” about the heat and everyone assumed we were whining while A/C-ing. (We weren’t! It sucked!)

As for the temperature in my A/C-ed workplace, it was too cold for the people sitting at their desks in short sleeves typing but for the people adhering to the dress code of long pants, closed-toed shoes and a lab coat it was somewhat too warm. And unlike suits, there’s not much you can do to minimize that kind of clothing requirement…

*yeah, hot air from the other half of the country is exactly what we needed right then. :p

Comment #224: Bagelsan  on  07/06  at  09:46 PM

Also, window screens have probably saved more people from illness and misery than any other human invention.

Nope.  Toilets.

Comment #225: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  07/06  at  10:32 PM

I haven’t read all 220+ comments, sorry!  But here’s my own tactics:

*Wear as few clothes as possible in the house, generally mesh sorts and a t-shirt, and sometimes only the shorts.
*Water, water, water
*Iced tea, iced tea iced tea
*Run a fan in the upstairs where my desk is.
*Keep the windows open until it hits 80-85 during the day
*Open the windows anytime it’s below 75 and keep them open all night if the low is supposed to hit 70 or lower
*Have the central thermostat set to kick on the AC at 80.  Since it’s an old system, this actually means the air only kicks on around 85 and kicks back off around 80.

I need to compare energy usage between the AC and a dehumidifier.  Since I live in one side of a split-level, the downstairs stays cool pretty much all the time.  If I can save energy with a dehumidifer, I’m going to hang a blanket in the stairwell to keep the downstairs air downstairs, and run the dehumidifier upstairs along with the fan.

Comment #226: bomberE  on  07/06  at  10:40 PM

Hence all the bitching from a year ago, when the NW had that 107-110F heat wave. We are seriously not prepared for that kind of weather—I recall a lot of pomposity* from the rest of y’all then, because we were “whining” about the heat and everyone assumed we were whining while A/C-ing. (We weren’t! It sucked!)

I remember that.  I actually went into work early on those days and stayed late because my workplace is climate-controlled, whereas my apartment does not have A/C.  80F at midnight is not very comfortable.

Comment #227: Linnaeus  on  07/06  at  10:41 PM

Personally, I tend to be quite sensitive to temperature extremes, but tend to fear the heat far more than the cold.  A reason I have an A/C unit in my room though it is so efficient I usually just need to keep it running on low for 20 minutes for the room to be cooled off well into the following afternoon.  Unfortunately, with the current NE heatwave…especially today, that has not proven to be enough.  This is the first time in several years I’ve had the A/C unit running on high for more than an hour…and the room still feels hot even after a shower. 

It also does not help that I run several work-related servers in my room and one ended up having its CPU fried which also took down its motherboard.  Thank goodness for backups…but that still sucks…  :(

What’s more ironic was that i spent 5 years living without AC in a top floor apartment in a brick building which retains heat so well that it was always 20 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the outside because my roommates and I were all too cheap to get A/Cs…or even fans.  As you can imagine, summers were horrid….especially with the added humidity and I did whatever i could to avoid cooking or even spending time there except to sleep.

Comment #228: exholt  on  07/06  at  10:50 PM

I live in a hot place (Australia) and the city I live in has very hot dry summers (although it is of course winter right now and a little on the chilly side). This trick works only for dry heat. If you are doing a load of washing (especially sheets and towels), drape the wet clothes in the house to dry off. The evaporation cools the air. Obviously also keep curtains and blinds closed during the day to keep the house from heating up as much as possible. Open doors and windows at night to allow the (comparitively) cooler air in to cool down the house overnight. On a hot summer day here you cannot open the doors or windows as the air outside gets very hot. I have evaporative cooling but have only just had that put in. Part of the attraction was that I could just run it as a fan and ensure flow through of air throughout the house. Prior to that we got by though acclimatising to the heat, keeping the sun out of the house and using fans. Acclimatising makes a huge and underestimated difference in my opinion. I have had to travel to the northern hemisphere for work. If I am travelling from winter to summer I find I have little tolerance for temperatures which I can exist in quite happily during an Australian summer. The reverse is also true.

I work in archives. Paper requires a constant temperature and humidity (within certain tolerances) in order to resist deterioration. However, it is possible to build and design storage repositories to enable these conditions to be achieved with minimal (or even no) requirement to artificially cool or heat. Obviously it depends on the environment in which the repository is being built (very humid areas will always require some form of dehumidification). This can be replicated in housing and office buildings as well. The problem is that building this way is more expensive and that often planning controls prohibit this kind of building. Part of the problem is structural (literally!).

Comment #229: JC  on  07/06  at  10:59 PM

OK, I haven’t read every post, so re: ideas, if anyone else has posted this, sorry.  We leave on the fan part of the a/c almost constantly - I can’t stand still, stuffy air.  My understanding is that the fan really doesn’t take much energy.  It seems to help, esp. in pulling cooler air up from the basement.  I would love to live w/o a/c completely, as I did until marriage about a decade ago, but we have traffic noise.  At some point sheer exhaustion makes us close the windows and crank her up.

Comment #230: phylosopher  on  07/06  at  11:05 PM

I think it’s so funny to see how different people are. Some people freeze in AC, some people are hot no matter what, and everyone has a strong opinion.

I fall on the always hot scale. I live in New England and today it got to 98 where I was. My office was an oven, even with the air on and my desk fan blowing on me. Even the people who are normally cold thought it was too hot. My office always tends to the hot, summer and winter. I think it’s strange that the same people who say 74 is too cold to set the AC in the summer too, then set the thermostat to 74 in the winter! In fact, I tend to be hotter in my office in the winter than in the summer. Weird. I say if it’s bad to use resources to cool too much, then it’s bad to use resources to heat too much.

I get really angry about dress codes for men and women. As a man, in most of my jobs I had to wear a suit and tie, while women were in skirts and light chiffon tops with open collars. There I was bundled up, sweating, and woman were all practically naked compared to me and freezing. I used to yell that they could wear warmer clothes, but they never listened, and in they all came with the same light tops and skirts.

Why do men have to bundle up anyway? If women can wear short skirts, why can’t men wear shorts? And if women can wear open toed shoes, why can’t men wear sandals? So odd. I think it has to do with hair. Men generally have hairy legs, hairy chests and hairy feet. So we have to cover them up. Although I’m guessing if I shaved everything I would still have to cover up. I guess this was all dreamed up by men so they could ogle women all day, but wouldn’t have to see the skin of other men. Ugh. I say we start a revolution, that men can go out showing as much skin as women do.

Humidity is anther issue with me. Anytime the dew point is 60 or better, I’m miserable, even if it’s only in the 70’s out. I just hate to sweat. Hate it. The older I get the less I like really cold, winter weather, but I have not developed more tolerance for summer heat. I’d be happy if 75 was the warmest it ever got outside. Perhaps I should move to the northwest coast or something.

I did read a statistic somewhere that said our brains work best when it’s 65 degrees with 65% humidity. I know that when it goes over 70 at work I start to lose brain function and the company gets less work out of me. And the way it is normally, at 74 to 78, I get cranky, slow down, and have trouble multi-tasking. Oh well.

Comment #231: acoolerclimate  on  07/06  at  11:25 PM

I used to yell that they could wear warmer clothes, but they never listened, and in they all came with the same light tops and skirts.

Yes, but did they get off your lawn at least? ;p

Comment #232: Bagelsan  on  07/07  at  12:29 AM

I think it’s strange that the same people who say 74 is too cold to set the AC in the summer too, then set the thermostat to 74 in the winter!

Why’s that strange?  Temperature perception changes relative to the surroundings.

Comment #233: bomberE  on  07/07  at  01:03 AM

Nuclear does use less land than renewables (though not as much as you think, once not only mining, but pollution from mining is counted) but it has other problems.

Given that I’m involved in a multi-year environmental review of a proposed uranium mine that just started, which includes examination of long term environmental effects of everything from the obvious to the perhaps not as obvious (noise, effects on animal migration and calving due to operational disturbance), I’d say my grasp of the mining aspect regarding land is fairly good, thanks.

That said, all power sources involve tradeoffs, and much of it depends on where you are.  Wind and solar are not reliable everywhere, however good your tech is.  Nuclear has its issues but in terms of compact, steady power sources it can’t be beat.  And even petroleum is likely to be around for a long, long time because the internal combustion engine does have a bunch of things going for it (just as one example, in cold climates you get heating for your vehicle for free with an IC, which isn’t the case for any other alternative).

Comment #234: KeithM  on  07/07  at  01:38 AM

Speaking of Australia and heat, someone forwarded me an email full of pictures of koalas soliciting water from people last January/February. Is this common? The fault of global warming? Some bizarre cuteness-related hoax?

Comment #235: Hector B.  on  07/07  at  02:07 AM

Building design has got to be a key. I once worked in a modern university building that had been designed so that, without additional heating or cooling, the temperature varied only within a 5 degree C range. OK, that was in a temperate climate, but still we’re talking it working within a range of -10 to 30 degrees C and saving an awful lot of fuel on heating.

Re. koalas, it did happen, it’s not common, and was the result of the heatwave. Sam the koala (the one with the firemen) had second-degree burns and was rescued after a wildfire. The youngster flagging down cyclists for water was likewise distressed and had probably learned to do it as a survival technique, likewise koalas taking water put out by households - not normal behaviour, but survival adaptations.

Comment #236: Nineveh  on  07/07  at  05:58 AM

The use of AC has mushroomed in the UK too, even Scotland. It’s ridiculous. There’s maybe two days every five years in which opening some windows and popping a few fans on the desks wouldn’t cool a well-designed building down to tolerable levels.  Again, it’s because architects are used to designing buildings that have AC, so they aren’t designing buildings it’s easy to cool in other ways.

Right here right now, the temperature outside is 17 C (62 F) and the AC in my office keeps switching itself on! My window’s designed to only open an inch unless you stand on a table and endanger your fingertips by fiddling with some catches halfway up the frame.

Comment #237: MissPrism  on  07/07  at  06:43 AM

“I used to yell that they could wear warmer clothes, but they never listened, and in they all came with the same light tops and skirts.”

As I’m sure you’re aware, being required to be bundled up and all, unless you bring a change of clothing to work with you, wearing unseasonably warm clothing outside a super-cooled environment only compounds the problem and adds to the total discomfort suffered.  My office is always an ice-box in warm weather.  There’s not much we can do about it short of major renovations, so everyone either dresses appropriately or sneaks out for “smoke breaks” to defrost whenever they get a chance.  But dressing appropriately means bringing a change of clothes, cranking the a/c in your car when you leave, foregoing a bike/walk commute, etc., because it’s 90 degrees outside.

“Why do men have to bundle up anyway? If women can wear short skirts, why can’t men wear shorts? And if women can wear open toed shoes, why can’t men wear sandals?”

Because women’s primary function is to be decorative, while men, being important, are required to be professional-looking.

Comment #238: preying mantis  on  07/07  at  08:01 AM

I’m a “natural temperature” extremist in a way, too. I lived in San Jose, CA and Seattle, WA without both AC and heater. That worked excellently in Seattle, less well in San Jose, where I spent most of the year with a headache.

Now I live in North Dakota and have both AC and heat, but the AC rarely gets used, to the point where I prefer to run around the house in wet clothes (as in: shower with your clothes on, not sweat thru your clothes) than turn the AC on. But I’m weird that way :-p I also convinced the boyfriend that the heat in winter doesn’t need to go above 68F. I couldn’t convince him to go lower than that, because his counterargument was getting sniffles and colds, which I couldn’t argue against, hehe. My half of the apartment is still cooler than his in winter, though (usually around 60-65F)

Aside from freaks like me though, the only way to lower AC use is, as others have already suggested, to go back to having more local cultures: local climate-adjusted architecture, locally sensible definitions of what appropriate businesswear is, and sensible definitions of business-hours, as well. Oh, and dumping the Protestant Work Ethic would help too: we have a labor-glut after all, so if the work was more equitably distributed, no one would have to overwork themselves in the heat to begin with.

Comment #239: jadehawk  on  07/07  at  09:01 AM

So now we’re not supposed to use air conditioning - because it’s “Bad For The Environment”?

Good God in Christ!

First it was meat, now its AC - what’s next…are they going to tell us that washing our clothes with detergent in the laundromat is “Bad For The Environment”????

I’m sorry, but this sanctimonious lifestyle liberalism - where every little pleasure of life is somehow evil - is a bunch of bullshit.

Your personal lifestyle choices don’t mean a damned thing in the grand scheme of things - most of America’s electricity is used by large institutional users (think office buildings, aluminum smelters, oil refineries ect) and your choice to save a few kilowatt hours really doesn’t amount to a hill of beans, so get over yourselves!

I don’t use air conditioning for reasons that are crassly financial (it makes my electric bill too high) but I do use lots of electric fans, and if I could afford it, I’d have an air conditioner in every room, and have them on full blast all summer long, with no apologies.

And if that’s “Bad For The Environment” well then fuck the environment

Comment #240: GregoryAButler  on  07/07  at  09:01 AM

“And if that’s “Bad For The Environment” well then fuck the environment

...which sounds an awful lot like…

If shitting in my own nest is bad, then fuck my own nest!

If not using brakes while driving is bad, then fuck my brakes!

If not using a condom when screwing some AIDS-ridden whore is bad for my body, then fuck my body!

Great thinking there, genius…

Comment #241: MikeEss  on  07/07  at  09:37 AM

Mike,

I’m sorry, but I live in a modern civilized technologically advanced country and I like taking advantage of that technology.

I feel no need to apologize for that.

Hell, I’m proud of it - in part because, as a construction worker, I help to build and maintain the everyday technological wonders we live with every day.

As for the environmental fanatics - first of all, if you hate technology give up your computer give up your car, your modern house, your cell phone, your eyeglasses, any prescription medication you use and go live in a shack out in the woods.

And if you can’t do that, you’re a hypocrite, and everything you have to say on the topic is irrelevant.

Also, is it really necessary for you to insult sex workers and People With AIDS in your reply, MikeEss?

Comment #242: GregoryAButler  on  07/07  at  09:47 AM

But my point is that too often environmentalists only care about nagging average folks about what they’re doing wrong while important, structural issues in large institutions (like corporations) that cause a lot more damage aren’t addressed. I blame it on the overall individualist strain of the American Left, where it’s more important to show that you’re, personally, doing all this petty mostly insignificant stuff to help the environment instead of participating collectively in making non-glamourous changes in how society as a whole is run.

You hit the nail right on the head, # 128 Blackbloc!

And that’s precisely why many of the common people think that environmentalists are elitist assholes.

Comment #243: GregoryAButler  on  07/07  at  09:49 AM

I don’t have an air conditioner. Last night and the night before, I filled the tub with cold water, soaked in it for a while, and then stood in front of a fan to dry off. Made it bearable. I didn’t do it this time because right now my fridge is unplugged and empty (getting ready to move), but I have put sheets and pillowcases in the freezer to make them cold before I put them on the bed and go to sleep.

Comment #244: maurinsky  on  07/07  at  10:04 AM

MikeEss, interesting that you think it’s necessary to denigrate a sexual partner in order to justify using a condom in that sentence.

Comment #245: purpleshoes  on  07/07  at  10:30 AM

I blame it on the overall individualist strain of the American Left, where it’s more important to show that you’re, personally, doing all this petty mostly insignificant stuff to help the environment instead of participating collectively in making non-glamourous changes in how society as a whole is run.

that’s not just the American Left, it’s America as a whole (and increasingly other parts of the World too, via Eagleland Osmosis). I wrote about that phenomenon back when The Blind Side came out , and focused more on the sort of stuff the Right usually thinks should be solved individually/privately (poverty, obesity and other health-issues, education, etc.), but it infests the Left to a certain degree, too.

Mind you, giving people ideas on how to reduce consumption is one thing, but moral pressure on people while ignoring the structural/cultural issues are just plain wrong.

And that’s precisely why many of the common people think that environmentalists are elitist assholes.

you mean the same “common people” who think poverty is caused by laziness and bad education by personal stupidity (and laziness)? As I just wrote, individualism and individual-blaming/shaming is All-American, not “leftist” or “elitist”

Comment #246: jadehawk  on  07/07  at  10:31 AM

@maurinsky: that was my day yesterday. Now I’m going to get a cold shower before dressing in the stupid hot clothes I have to wear at work, and down a full liter of water so I don’t pass out on the bus. Stupid fucking corporate culture.

Comment #247: BlackBloc  on  07/07  at  10:32 AM

I said ‘American Left’ to differentiate from the international Left, not from the American mainstream.

Comment #248: BlackBloc  on  07/07  at  10:34 AM

AAAnyway, I was going to link to a timely article by Sharon Astyk about cooling off without AC: How Not To Fry

Comment #249: jadehawk  on  07/07  at  10:35 AM

I said ‘American Left’ to differentiate from the international Left, not from the American mainstream.

oh, I see. Nevermind me then, just move along wink

Though, like I said, this is starting to infest at least some parts of Europe now, too.

Comment #250: jadehawk  on  07/07  at  10:37 AM

GregoryAButler, I’m not sure where you’re from - have you commented on this blog before? - but I think if you’ll read the preceding comments you’ll see that we’re arguing a lot about planning decisions and how they impact individuals who don’t have control over those decisions - for instance renting tenants who have next to no say in whether a building is a horrifying heat trap or a reasonably-designed place with good airflow.

I am surprised that as someone who works in construction you haven’t considered the “green design” gravytrain, though. It’s basic logic (maybe an overhang on that southfacing window, or some low VOC paint) but somehow explain that it’s for the polar bears and not because people have to live in that building and it would be nice if it didn’t suck and people seem to hand over piles of money. I personally am more of a “if you have to live there, it probably shouldn’t suck” environmentalist, but then, I don’t have to use my heat in winter because of reasonable solar design in my apartment. So.

Comment #251: purpleshoes  on  07/07  at  10:37 AM

GregoryAButler has commented on this blog before, on the Vitter thread, about sex workers.

http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/ill_feign_surprise_and_call_that_an_altercation/

Comment #252: oldfeminist  on  07/07  at  10:45 AM

most of America’s electricity is used by large institutional users (think office buildings,

Half or more of the comments in this thread are critiques of the architecture and climate control systems in peoples’ places of work.  Y’know, office buildings.

Boy, you’re a fuckin’ genius aren’t ya?

Comment #253: bomberE  on  07/07  at  11:09 AM

Ah. That’s why I felt icky when he seemed to latch on my words in agreement. I thought it was just me being uncharitable to his tone (which seemed more like a ‘green are my enemies’ than my ‘here’s some advice given to greens in solidarity with their concerns but tempered with my class struggle ethos’), when it was probably my subconscious reminding me how much a creep he was in that other thread and thus warning me that he was probably being one again.

Comment #254: BlackBloc  on  07/07  at  12:16 PM

“Also, is it really necessary for you to insult sex workers and People With AIDS in your reply, MikeEss?”

...um, yeah, I’m sure you’re really deeply concerned about America’s sex workers…

...oh, sorry, I just remembered you’d rather have a completely artificial “relationship” with a sex worker than actually form genuine personal relationships with human beings who are not being paid to act nice to you.  So you probably really are deeply concerned…

“MikeEss, interesting that you think it’s necessary to denigrate a sexual partner in order to justify using a condom in that sentence.”

What can I say, I’m completely blown away that someone could in all seriousness write “fuck the environment”.  I was struggling to come up with analogies that someone as apparently clueless as GAB might be able to understand.  I see, however, that I failed.

I’m honestly flabbergasted by someone who is so caught up in their live-in-the-moment-screw-tomorrow selfishness they can’t see how absolutely asinine a comment like “fuck the environment” really is.  I really don’t know how to react to a statement that stupid…

Comment #255: MikeEss  on  07/07  at  12:22 PM

Ditto purpleshoes #251. Green/energy efficient building construction is where all the money is right now. So it’s environmentalists ideas that are keeping you employed GAB.

My best tips for living without A/C: frequently apply cold water to your forearms and the back of your neck.

Comment #256: MissCherryPi  on  07/07  at  12:49 PM

But you see, MikeEss, the fact that you are using a computer which uses electricity to argue in favor of using less electricity means you are a hypocrite, and therefore anything you say is a priori tainted and to be ignored.  If you would give up your use of electricity and instead use your powers of cybernetic telepathy to post here, then what you said would be admissible.  So ha ha, you lost the argument before you even came in!

Shorter Gregory A Butler:  Unless you’re a hippie who lives in a commune in the woods, you can’t speak about conservation.  And if you are a hippie who lives in a commune the woods, ha ha you’re a hippie, who cares what you think?

Privileged assholes have been saying “fuck the environment” forever.  They don’t give a damn until it starts impacting them in ways they can’t buy their way out of, which is usually too late.

Comment #257: liberalrob  on  07/07  at  12:56 PM

Now I’m going to get a cold shower before dressing in the stupid hot clothes I have to wear at work, and down a full liter of water so I don’t pass out on the bus. Stupid fucking corporate culture.

Our VP and Pres arrived in shorts and t-shirts.  They changed into suits for their meetings.  I think they plan to return to the play clothes for their return trips home.

Comment #258: Ms Kate  on  07/07  at  12:58 PM

In a city, one of the big problems with AC is that it makes the outside just that much more unlivable. I used to work in a manhattan building with a ground-level vent, and walking past it to get to the door was like walking through a convection oven.

One of the other problems with home AC is that often the presence of a window air conditioner renders other heat-management strategies much more difficult. No standard screen, very hard to safely open the window with the AC in it, so crossventilation is typically shot.

Comment #259: paul  on  07/07  at  01:14 PM

“Fuck the environment”? Oh, please. Your “I’ve got mine, fuck you” attitude is really fucking repulsive.

There is absolutely NO reason that we have to make a choice between individual thermal comfort and responsibility to, you know, leave a semi-functioning environment to future generations. We (and not just a few lefty blog readers, but our entire society) need to make widespread changes in the way we build, work, and get around. Progress is slow, but is happening on this front. No one is *asking* you do go without HVAC if you need it, so, seriously, cram it.

The accusations of personal hypocrisy against those who are calling for and working toward *social* change is a transparent bullshit Republican tactic. AND AL GORE’S FAT!

Seriously, GregoryAButler, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Comment #260: baddesignhurts  on  07/07  at  01:19 PM

So GAB, when you “fuck the environment,” does it charge by the hour?

Comment #261: Yawgmoth  on  07/07  at  01:32 PM

I’m one of those people who cannot think in the heat even wearing “appropriate” clothes for the weather and has other health reasons to fear the heat.  I just visited relatives in a tropical country for a week and hid in the rooms that sometimes had air conditioning for most of it, because June is miserable. I can do nothing but scratch all over my body where the beads of sweat are tickling me, cannot hold a conversation, nothing.  And that’s wearing the local dress, which is highly adapted for the weather. 

On the other hand, I can stand and function in the cold for quite a while. I don’t plan to move to any tropical countries any time soon, unless it’s places that don’t go much above 30C.  Interestingly Singapore was bearable.  But they use AC in a lot of places.

Comment #262: Mandos  on  07/07  at  01:51 PM

Just to nitpick, corn is wind pollinated. But many of the crops we rely on are pollinated by bees. Apis mellifera is not native to the New World, but we do need it here. Also, we need more people keeping bees. Many cities are changing ordinances to allow beekeeping, which is awesome. This could help mitigate CCD and also improve community gardens. All you gardeners out there should give some serious thought to keeping a hive.

And as an entomologist, I want you to know how incredibly fucking stupid it is to be concerned about exploiting the labor of bees.

Comment #263: Entomologista  on  07/07  at  05:20 PM

So GAB, when you “fuck the environment,” does it charge by the hour?

Yawgmoth, GAB knows perfectly well that it’s ridiculous to try and “love” the environment. The environment is here to fulfill certain of his physical needs, not to form a relationship with him! And if the environment could type it would totally call that “respectful.” :D

But yeah, “fuck the environment”? How does that work out, exactly?

1) fuck the environment!

2) ???

3) profit!*

*where “profit” means “die horribly when your planet abruptly and permanently stops sustaining your particular form of life”

Comment #264: Bagelsan  on  07/07  at  05:34 PM

A friend growing up lived in an apartment built inside an old potato warehouse, so no need for cooling ever with three-foot thick concrete walls. The place had two apartments and a basement with a ceiling high enough to play basketball. The main drawback would be only one window, but it was a window facing Lake Superior and the place was built a few feet from a 70-foot cliff overlooking said lake.

I doubt three-foot concrete walls are practical for everyone, sadly.

Comment #265: witless chum  on  07/07  at  06:00 PM

>Given that I’m involved in a multi-year environmental review of a proposed uranium mine that just started, which includes examination of long term environmental effects of everything from the obvious to the perhaps not as obvious (noise, effects on animal migration and calving due to operational disturbance), I’d say my grasp of the mining aspect regarding land is fairly good, thanks.

And I’ve been writing on energy issues for years, and have a degree in the field. So maybe we should stick to facts and not argue from authority. Especially since I see a lot of bullshit from with credentials as good or better than ours on both sides of the issue.

>That said, all power sources involve tradeoffs, and much of it depends on where you are.  Wind and solar are not reliable everywhere, however good your tech is.  Nuclear has its issues but in terms of compact, steady power sources it can’t be beat.  And even petroleum is likely to be around for a long, long time because the internal combustion engine does have a bunch of things going for it (just as one example, in cold climates you get heating for your vehicle for free with an IC, which isn’t the case for any other alternative).

Which is why if we want to maximize use of wind and solar we need long distance transmission lines. To make wind and solar reliable enough to provide 80% or more of our electricity, we need to

1) use both because they complement each other, and one tends to work when the other doesn’t

2) use long distance transmission, so that we get renewable power from diverse sources, so that again one wind generator is working when another is not.

3) Use small amounts storage for shaping to compensate for short lulls in power.

4) Use hydro and geothermal for shaping to compensate for longer lulls.

5) Until we get breakthroughs that produce cheap storage use natural gas to provide between 2% and 5% of remaining power.

Alternatively we might consider nuclear.  But what we can’t do is mix large amounts of renewables (40% or more) with large amounts of nuclear (40% or more.) Because past a certain point a grid with large amounts of renewable energy needs shaping energy. And nuclear is not suitable for shaping. A minor issue is that the current generation of nuclear plants physically can’t respond fast enough to do shaping. But it would probably not be difficult to add shaping capability to new nukes, and might be possible with existing ones. (Not my specialty, so information either way won’t surprise me.) However the key point about nukes is that they are dominated by capital costs.  A lot of argument out there about nuke costs. But even the reasonable (11 cents per kWh) side bases their estimates on high capacity utilization. A nuke used for shaping purposes would run a 35% capacity, perhaps a lot less.  That would screw up the economics of a nuke big time. So ultimately we will have to choose between nukes and renewables. This is not a baby we can split, unless we want to keep on burning lots of coal and natural gas for electricity.

BTW any argument that starts “We are going to continue to do X” is very likely to be invalid, because of the passive voice. If we as a society politically choose to keep burning oil we will keep burning oil. If we choose put in place different policies we can drastically cut oil use.  Further we can do so ahead of electrifying ground transport. Electrify and upgrade rail (including double tracking, eliminating bottlenecks and adding more switchyards and freight yards) and we could move a lot of long distance truck traffic to trains in a comparative short time. Put in solar heating and/or ground source heats in the buildings that use oil for heat and we could eliminate the 15% of oil we use for space heating. Reducing passenger transport is a longer term prospect, involving building of electric light rail, trolley buses, encourage denser more walkable/bikeable development, building more bike paths and walking paths, and building electric cars if we can really produce the batteries on the scale needed.

Of course we want that electricity to come either from the sun/wind/other renewable mixture I favor or from the nuke system you seem to favor. What we don’t want it to come from is a grid that is half coal and a fifth natural gas, today’s grid.

That said, all power sources involve tradeoffs, and much of

it depends on where you are.

Comment #266: Gar Lipow  on  07/07  at  06:40 PM

Now I live in North Dakota and have both AC and heat, but the AC rarely gets used, to the point where I prefer to run around the house in wet clothes (as in: shower with your clothes on, not sweat thru your clothes) than turn the AC on. But I’m weird that way tongue laugh I also convinced the boyfriend that the heat in winter doesn’t need to go above 68F. I couldn’t convince him to go lower than that, because his counterargument was getting sniffles and colds, which I couldn’t argue against, hehe. My half of the apartment is still cooler than his in winter, though (usually around 60-65F)

Down comforter.  Allows for 45 degrees at night, nice and toasty, especially coupled with flannel sheets.  And LESS colds.  Yes, pricey at @ $100 for a 3 season one from IKEA, but I believe we saved that much in heating the first month or two.

Comment #267: phylosopher  on  07/07  at  08:49 PM

...I’m sorry, but this sanctimonious lifestyle liberalism - where every little pleasure of life is somehow evil - is a bunch of bullshit.


Comment #240: GregoryAButler on 07/07 at 08:01 AM…


Well GregoryAButtler, that’s where you’re clueless.  One savors the little pleasures more.  LIke walking under a shade tree on a 90 degree day, or truly finding a glass of lemonade refreshing - instead of your ordering hot tea because the A/C has it down to 60.  Relishing hopping into bed on a frosty winter night under that down comforter I mentioned. 

I find a cool breeze on a hot summer night “delicious,” LIke a gentle caress from a lover.  Yep, I’ve got enjoying the little pleasures thoroughly covered.  And I do pity you. You must not get it up until you’re mauled by a gorilla.

Comment #268: phylosopher  on  07/07  at  08:57 PM

OK, I’m throwing this one out there - anyone heard of any research on it, opinion etc:

Does the obesity epidemic coincide with the rise of A/C use? Could it be a contributing factor?

Here’s the thought about it for a few minutes in the shower rationale:
In summer, lots of people tend to eat less/lighter, because it is so hot outside.  Take that cue away, and we eat like it’s winter - more heavy meals.

The corollary would presumably be true too - that in winter, central heat makes us eat less, but we aren’t burning any calories to keep warm, though most indoor spaces aren’t heated to 80+.

Comment #269: phylosopher  on  07/07  at  09:03 PM

I doubt three-foot concrete walls are practical for everyone, sadly.
Comment #265: witless chum on 07/07 at 05:00 PM

They don’t need to be 3’ thick, but the concrete helps.  Put an inch or two of foamcore on the outside of @ 6” of concrete and another on the inside.  Run a geothermal unit up through all the floors, which are concrete too.  You can also use concrete block, like Frank Lloyd Wright designed in his Usonian homes.  (and modern materials and methods would alleviate many of the problems Wright homes often exhibit.
Another method is the concrete covered straw-bale home.  The walls end up @ 1-2’ thick.  All concrete methods are fireproof compared to stickbuilt homes.

Comment #270: phylosopher  on  07/07  at  09:16 PM

Lots of means to build homes that use about 80% less energy (not just climate control but all energy) than the U.S. average per person.

However most people 20 years from now will be living and working in the buildings that already exist. That means we also need to massively retrofit. Which we can do. We won’t get anything like that 80%, but retrofits can save 30% in most residential buildings, and 50% in many. There is even more potential in existing commercial buildings, because greening a building correctly results in higher worker productivity which is a huge payback and allows fairly expensive investments to be included in a green plan.

This kind of savings should be paired with massive conversion of the grid to low-carbon electricity. Again while I favor renewables, there are arguments to be made for nukes. But in either case we need to get the grid off coal and mostly off natural gas.

But again, free market is not going to deliver this. You need efficiency rules for buildings, and emission intensity rules for generation, along with public investment in transmission.

Comment #271: Gar Lipow  on  07/07  at  10:16 PM

Down comforter.  Allows for 45 degrees at night, nice and toasty, especially coupled with flannel sheets.

Maybe you get used to it over time, but breathing in cold air all night, even when the rest of your body is under a down comforter is very, very unpleasant. I suppose that may be ok for you, but I hope you don’t expect any family members to share in this   Look, everyone likes tips on how to save energy and alternative energy uses, but some of this is sounding like, “I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t understand the pleasure of waking up at 4 AM, drinking raw eggs, and running 6 miles.”

Comment #272: Tyro  on  07/07  at  10:47 PM

Actually, the whole family has them, and we’re generally pretty damn healthy, as in very few winter colds.  IN all honesty, no, it really doesn’t take any getting used to, except to either have a programmable thermostat, or turn it down before retiring.  And it’s not like it gets down to 45 right then and there.  On most nights, in a decently insulated house, it may get to @ 55 or so sometime at night.  It has to be REALLY cold out as in 0 or below before it gets to that 45 inside at some point in the night. 

We figured this one out after a period of being rather stupid about it.  I originally had a Vellux blanket - hated it, because it makes you sweat - that foam does not breathe.  (This was after the heated water bed in a house with only a woodstove.  But I needed something that would keep me really warm - at the time some pretty serious skeletal and muscle injuries that required warmth if I want to function next day.  So I splurged on the down (its a 3 season one meaning a light summer quilt and a separate spring/fall one you put them together in a duvet for winter)  after reading some ads, and remembering my parents stories about snuggling up under piezina (Polish for down comforter).  Yes, it was warm, but I kept waking up because I was too warm and throwing the damn thing off after an hour or so, then getting cold - lather, rinse, repeat - duh….of course - down is rated to like -20 degrees (down parkas and sleeping bags testify to that) so of course laying under one in a 60 degree house means you’d overheat.

Comment #273: phylosopher  on  07/07  at  11:21 PM

phylosopher, you write as though none of us have had our home heating fail in the middle of winter, even while owning down comforters and flannel sheets. I’ve done it your way, and maybe you’re used to it, but I consider it a terrible way to live.

Comment #274: Tyro  on  07/07  at  11:45 PM

Your post didn’t reflect that Tyro, (breathing in cold air ALL night) and your snide idea that I’m “inflicting” this on my family was quite heavy handed.  While you can sleep whatever the hell way you want - sleep under a sheet in an 85 degree room in winter, I’d just like the same consideration; it isn’t a “terrible” way to live.  For my family, it is healthy, comfortable, environmentally moral, frugal and better sleeping.  Logically, it is foolish to dress (lay under) something about 5 times warmer that what you put on to go out in weather a good 30 degrees colder than the average American bedroom. - don’t you think?

Comment #275: phylosopher  on  07/08  at  12:27 AM

“I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t understand the pleasure of waking up at 4 AM, drinking raw eggs, and running 6 miles.”

Tyro, if you don’t have to run the 6 miles (each way uphill in the snow, natch) just to get the raw eggs then you haven’t really lived! ;p (Also, you will have to fight a velociraptor to get ‘em. These will be raw velociraptor eggs. None of this domesticated “chicken” livestock nonsense!)

But yeah, arguing against access to basic stuff like shelter (fuck your namby pamby desire for “heating!”) and food (like super restrictive diets) isn’t going to be very convincing to the non-masochistic among us. Arguing in favor of tweaking how we obtain shelter and food is much more realistic. I would personally call “turn down the A/C if possible” a tweak, while turning off the heat in the winter (and expecting any but the most hale, well-stocked and lucky people to survive) is just unreasonable*.

*except for very very special snowflakes (snow lumps? no heat…) like phylosopher, who has, along with his godlike children, overcome all human weaknesses. :D

Comment #276: Bagelsan  on  07/08  at  12:43 AM

Gee, don’t light a match around bagelsan - those strawmen are pretty flammable.  Turning down the heat when you GO TO BED =/= turning off the heat in winter.  If you are looking for a way to save energy buying a warmer blanket and turning the heat down AT NIGHT is a tweak not an overhaul, I’m not advocating calling to have the gas supply disconnected and then worry about huddling under the sheet that’s shared by five. So, I was figuring I’d get slammed for “who can afford the luxury of a down comforter,” in 3 2 1…..

Comment #277: phylosopher  on  07/08  at  01:28 AM

”(Also, you will have to fight a velociraptor to get ‘em. These will be raw velociraptor eggs. None of this domesticated “chicken” livestock nonsense!)”

...what is a chicken anyway, if not a small grand-offspring of some ancient magnificent velociraptor forebear?  Feathers (which may have covered velociraptor anyway) and a beak instead of teeth, slicing claws left in the sands of time, but the essence is still there…

Comment #278: MikeEss  on  07/08  at  01:40 AM

Yeah, yeah, but I needed that strawman to stay warm! :p

But seriously, I’m on board with turning the heat down (I’m a big fan of my electric blanket, for one, and I personally like to be in a cool room to sleep anyways) but I thought 45 degrees was a little… hyperbolic. I’m not sure how you would ever get out of bed.

...Unless there was a velociraptor in there to motivate you! (That’s right, tying the snark all into a bundle… :D)

Comment #279: Bagelsan  on  07/08  at  05:54 AM

Note the automatic thermostat- getting too warm acts as an alarm clock for me.  Not to mention another technological luxury (and a relatively inexpensive one at that…mine just happened to come with the house) a bathroom heater built into the exhaust fan.  Bed to bathroom - warm shower and by then the coffee’s ready and the area of house I use in the a.m. house at livable temp.  As Amanda pointed out with central A/C - and I’ve heard the argument a thousand times that it is cheaper to use central air than room A/C but I think that would be if you have room A/C in all rooms - we (Americans) tend to heat a lot of space we’re not using. And with new open rooms designs, there’ no way to shut off unused rooms.

Comment #280: phylosopher  on  07/08  at  09:08 AM

Bed to bathroom - warm shower

You shower with WARM water? How wasteful! I feel that cold showers really put us in better touch with nature’s natural acquatic rhythms. I only bathe in warm water when it is heated by natural hot springs from the earth’s own volcanic core, the natural water heating method.

Before I had central air conditioning, the reason my electric bill were kept low in the summer was because I could just turn on the wall unit in my bedroom, using only the cooling power I actually needed at night. I can’t help but think that my more modern central air system is more wasteful.

Comment #281: Tyro  on  07/08  at  11:47 AM

I live in Minnesota, where our summers tend to be very pleasant and temperate, so I try not to get too self-righteous about the fact that we don’t use our A/C much.

The issue I run into pretty regularly: it gets hot during the day and heats up the house; it’s still bearable as long as I’m not trying to sleep, but I need it to cool down before bed.  It cools down outside very nicely by bedtime but even with fans I have trouble getting the nice cool outside air into the house.

So I bought one of these.  I’m hoping it will help.

As far as offices and other commercial buildings go, I really wish we could shift the cultural norm so that during the summer, people expected it to feel like summer, and dressed accordingly.  This would require a shift in the definition of acceptable office attire, but that seems like it should be possible in most offices.  If it were up to me I would offer some sort of tax break to businesses that had a collection of policies in place that would lower dependence on A/C, and see if we could nudge the norm that way.

Comment #282: Naomi  on  07/08  at  12:30 PM

Entomologista: oops, my mistake!
I also don’t particularly care about the exploitation (probably not the right word) of insects personally—I’m a vegetarian who doesn’t have a problem with silk, for instance.  I guess some people do though, and it always struck me as odd that they would shun honey but eat fruit without thinking twice.

Comment #283: mamram  on  07/08  at  01:07 PM

As far as offices and other commercial buildings go, I really wish we could shift the cultural norm so that during the summer, people expected it to feel like summer, and dressed accordingly.  This would require a shift in the definition of acceptable office attire, but that seems like it should be possible in most offices.  If it were up to me I would offer some sort of tax break to businesses that had a collection of policies in place that would lower dependence on A/C, and see if we could nudge the norm that way.

Unfortunately, the stuffy corporate types, especially those with MBAs seem to feel that formal corporate dress is the only way employees will “take their work seriously”.  Remembered reading one such type pontificate about how the internet startup cultural trend of encouraging “business casual” or even more “casual fridays” has caused many employees to “think they’re on vacation” which they perceive as the cause for a reduction in the quality and quantity of output from each employee. 

rolleyes

I wonder how much of that has to do with the corporate cultural perception that people who wear formal corporate businesswear “look smart” and “professional” when everyone else outside of the corporate culture and those who don’t buy into that BS see those with such perspectives as overly pretentious pseudo-intellectual twits.

Comment #284: exholt  on  07/08  at  02:39 PM

...what is a chicken anyway, if not a small grand-offspring of some ancient magnificent velociraptor forebear?

Which goes to show that being a top predator is all well and good, but sucking up to humanity is what gets a species longetivity.  That’s why there’s more domestic cats than tigers, and more dogs than wolves.

Comment #285: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  07/08  at  04:56 PM

ive lived in texas for almost 5 years now (grew up in the chicago-land area) and while i still hate the heat, im getting used to it.  so much so that my tolerance for cold is way down and all my northern relatives make fun of me.  and maybe it’s my midwest common sense but i cant get all the “native” texans that get all butthurt about the weather.  there are huge swathes of the DFW area that were built post-AC that have windows that dont even open!  it’s assumed you will run the AC until it’s cold enough to put the heat on.  also when they made all the huge subdivisions they bulldozed every old-growth tree in sight and plant crappy ornamental trees (or BUTLPs - Boring, Unimaginative Texas Landscape Plants) that dont provide enough shade for house cooling.  tarrant, collin, denton and dallas county is one huge fucking heat island.

when husband and i were looking to buy a house it had to be an older home so it would have lots of windows and less “empty space” to have to heat and cool.  it had to have lots of strategic shade trees and it had to have central air so the windows wouldnt be blocked up.  the AC is set at 80 degrees and i try to wait until june 1 or later to turn it on and it goes off october 1 (because summer sometimes doesnt end until halloween.)  that leaves us about 3+ months a year of open window season.

Comment #286: uberhausfrau  on  07/10  at  01:06 PM
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