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Next entry: MTV schools everyone in how to commit journalism Previous entry: Not “hard wiring”, please

Our policies are working! Oh shit, blame the liberals!

Via Roy, I see Charlotte Hays of the National Review is really bringing it in the ongoing Wingnut Olympics, where competitors are judged by how many lies and non sequiturs they can cram into limited space.  Hays has only one paragraph’s worth of material, and yet the bullshit packed in there is astounding. 

The blizzard is definitely a force for conservatism, and not only because it has had the global-warming crowd scrambling for explanations.

There are many lies in this.  The most obvious is that anyone is “scrambling” for explanations.  People who actually understand the science know there’s a difference between weather and climate, in the same way we understand that a single traffic accident doesn’t mean that a town’s relatively low rates of traffic accidents are somehow disproved.  She’s basically fantasizing, and this demonstrates that wingnut audiences struggle with telling the difference between their fantasies (that a bunch of ignorant people who resent scientists for not being ignorant have made the scientists scramble) and the reality (that no one is scrambling, because the models that prove global warming allow for severe blizzards and even probably predict them).

But this is also based on an under-lying and nonsensical myth of wingnuttery, which is that the majority of the world, except for a few American conservatives who also are likelier to embrace creationism as a theory, wants to believe that our climate is going out of wack in such a way that it’s going to increase destructive weather events, starvation, and war.  Why they’re the only ones special enough not to get sucked into this pessimism—-and why hope-and-change liberals are supposedly now the sourpusses—-is never explained.  At best, they assume everyone else is as big a culture warrior as they are, and we actually want to deprive them of their Penis Mobiles because we’re somehow threatened by them (instead of amused at the overt overcompensation).  Also, this theory relies on, as I’ve noted before, an epic conspiracy theory that involves hundreds of thousands and probably millions of scientific experts.  They believe the vast majority of scientists and educators in the world are conspiring to hoodwink a gullible public about global warming, even though the motivations of these people are never established.  (The go-to explanation is “research grants”, but this is coming from people who deny that the exponentially larger oil profits could inspire oil companies to spend millions of dollars on anti-science propaganda. They also have to deny that people they claim are solely motivated by money suddenly wouldn’t abandon their underfunded university jobs to work in anti-environmental propaganda that pays way better.)  That’s a lot of bullshit, and that’s only her first sentence, which isn’t even really related to the rest of her nonsense paragraph!

The blizzard reveals something basic:  Liberals in government want to tell us what to eat, counsel us about how and when to die, and in general attempt to engineer our lives. But when reality knocks, they can’t do the basic stuff such as clearing the streets so that newborns don’t die in bloody apartment-building lobbies.

Let’s break this down into its various lies.  First is the notion that “liberals” are tyrannical because they try to publicize scientific information about nutrition.  They aren’t even forcing you to believe them!  If you want to believe that your chronic constipation is due to the global warming conspiracy instead of your stubborn unwillingness to ingest fiber, you retain the right to be a dumbass.  Second of all is this lie that Mayor Bloomberg is a “liberal”.  Actually, the irritatingly smug mayor of New York is an independent and former Republican.  He just happens to channel his fetish for controlling the bodies of poor people into food instead of into sex, like most Republicans.  But nothing he’s done as mayor in terms of nutrition proposals would actually control the choices of anyone that Hays cares about—-he’s mostly interested in making certain food items out of the price range of the poor.  And there’s no attempt to “tell you what to eat” by putting nutritional info up in chain restaurants.  You can cover your eyes if you feel overly controlled by knowing what you’re putting into your body, but I would say that people are actually less controlled if they have more information. 

Equating Mayor Bloomberg with the liberal Democrats who came up with subsidies for end-of-life counseling is another lie.  So is the notion that you’re being forced to be counseled by your doctor.  You don’t have to go to a doctor for end-of-life counseling if you don’t want to, but if you do want to, Medicare will pay for it now.  I’d like to see this whining about how being subject to voluntary access to advice taken to its logical level.  Conservatives really shouldn’t go to doctors if they’re so bothered by it.  How dare a doctor tell you what is happening to your body?  That’s an imposition on freedom.  People should never listen to scientific information ever before making a decision, since that’s basically fascism.  The only free decision is a completely uninformed one. 

The next lie is somehow suggesting that there’s a relationship between street plowing within New York City and federal government initiatives like creating the food pyramid or subsidizing voluntary health care use. There’s not, except in the most thin sense that both tend to require tax dollars for funding.  But there is a major relationship between Republican calls for budget cuts to pay for tax cuts for the rich and the lack of street plowing

This week, as Mr. Bloomberg conceded that the city’s response to the blizzard had been inadequate, many theories, in both shouts and whispers, have been offered to explain the shortcomings: the Sanitation Department had undergone staffing cuts; the ferocity of the snowfall and the power of the accompanying winds had presented extraordinary challenges to the city’s snow plows; angry sanitation workers had sabotaged the efforts; city residents had ignored common sense and wound up stranding their cars in streets across the five boroughs.

It makes sense that if you had more money to spend on street plowing, there would be more street plowing, in the same way that spending more money on food means you have more of it in your refrigerator. 

Mayor Bloomberg may be receiving an unfair amount of criticism for his lackluster performance in coping with Mother Nature, given the almost unprecedented nature of the storm, but the unplowed city streets provide a metaphor for the nanny state: It can order us to do anything, but it can’t take care of the basic obligations of government.

The final lie: that conservatives support the “basic obligations of government”.  Well, that and the lie about how public health initiatives somehow detract from street plowing.  But the reason there are budget cuts has everything to do with Republican theories of government, the big one being that government doesn’t do shit and so it should just go away, except the military, which can be used for poaching the resources of other nations.  Isn’t a city that’s under a blanket of snow where the only people who are clearing the streets are unpaid volunteers exactly what libertarians are demanding?  After all, those tax cuts don’t pay for themselves.  Maybe we should privatize all the streets so that the budget cutting and refusal to actually do anything about the snow is being accomplished by morally upstanding capitalists.  That way, you can pay even more to for-profit enterprises for not having any service to your house.  Isn’t deunionizing the conservative wet dream?  I mean, the results of this wet dream are lower salaries, therefore lower job satisfaction and worse performance. 

I hear all the time from conservatives about how evil it is that there are government workers out there drawing paychecks to do things like rebuild roads.  And the first time that we start to get an inkling of libertarian paradise, where no one is there to plow your street because god forbid we tax people to pay for it, all of a sudden it’s time to blame the liberals.  And it’ll work, because deliberate dumbassery is the order of the day for conservatives.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 11:44 AM • (124) Comments

Mayor Bloomberg can’t be a Republican, it took a day but he actually apologized for something! As for the ‘tyranny’ of listing calories, all it does is take some of the fun of going out to eat when you see how many calories are in your order. I find myself getting more liberal as I get old, and the things I don’t understand: conservatives bitch about the “nanny state” taking care of us, but they are the first to fall in line to anyone authoratative. And if they care about “freedom” so much, why doesn’t that carry over to who people can marry/sleep with and what a woman can do with her body?

Comment #1: Neil C.  on  12/30  at  01:19 PM

“deliberate dumbassery is the order of the day for conservatives”

Every fucking day. They get dumber and dumber. On purpose. I’ll never understand their hatred of being educated.

Comment #2: Mark  on  12/30  at  01:20 PM

Gah, this crap is so aggravating.  Here in my Wisconsin locality, our snow removal budget is constantly being cut….we don’t even have enough money to keep our police force robust enough so obviously we aren’t going to squirrel away much for future storms that haven’t happened yet.  And every year we blow through the budget after the first three storms, and there’s a bunch of scrambling to cover the rest of the winter’s storms.

It really is an ingenious bit of dissembling, however.  Run on the idea that government doesn’t work, then once in office chronically underfund basic programs like law enforcement, education, the FDA, etc, and voila!  You prove that government doesn’t work.

Comment #3: Blitzgal  on  12/30  at  01:23 PM

All Amanda’s points are totally solid. I just can’t even think about the piece she’s responding to. I skimmed it, but my brain refuses to process. Too much stupid.

Comment #4: atheist  on  12/30  at  01:27 PM

Clean-up, aisle 5.

How is that when liberal ideas actually work, conservatives spin it as them winning, and then when conservative ideas actually fail, it’s some how an indictment against liberals?

Comment #5: Antigone  on  12/30  at  01:36 PM

It’s pretty clear (transparent!) to me what the real differences between liberalism and conservatism are:  transparency vs opacity.  Liberals want to help people make informed decisions, whether it is knowing the calories/chemicals in the food and water they eat, or the funding of a politician, or the disclosure of a financial institution.  Conservatives want this to remain hidden, they want people to make decisions without information.

Comment #6: James  on  12/30  at  01:38 PM

A hearty welcome to our new troll, Mastadon.

A prehistoric elephant.  With poor spelling. And misogynist. And openly racist.  Just the kind of troll we like around here, amirite?

Comment #7: Dr. Psycho  on  12/30  at  01:43 PM

Here’s a link to a discussion (and other links) about why global warming is causing more snow/cooler winters in some parts of the world.

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/putting-a-siberian-snow-connection-to-the-test/

Comment #8: James  on  12/30  at  01:44 PM

“both of your favorite racial groups”

While I don’t actually have any “favorite racial groups”, I have a pretty good guess as to what your favorite is.

Comment #9: Mark  on  12/30  at  01:48 PM

That’s funny, I thought there was a “boy crisis” going on in education after biased policies were removed and it turned out girls, for whatever reason, are more likely to stay in school and succeed Moreau than their male counterparts.   

How many awards have you won, btw? I’ve never met someone harping on the awesome acheivments of whites who did jack shit with their lives.

Comment #10: kaje  on  12/30  at  01:50 PM

Got it!  Thanks for the heads up.  It’s easier than cleaning up cat puke, that’s fro sure.  Though cat puke is less disgusting.

Comment #11: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/30  at  02:00 PM

A prehistoric elephant.  With poor spelling. And misogynist. And openly racist.

Maybe it has freezerburn from centuries spent within the tundra.

Comment #12: atheist  on  12/30  at  02:01 PM

Glad I missed the mess.

government’s most basic function is general welfare; i.e., keeping the streets clear and usable.  We all pay into a general fund, via taxes, and all receive the common benefit.

Of course, this basic premise mentioned twice in the Constitution is blatantly un-American.  Only tax cuts and privatizing everything fits our Randian Founding Father’s utopian dreams

Comment #13: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  12/30  at  02:09 PM

“Isn’t a city that’s under a blanket of snow where the only people who are clearing the streets are unpaid volunteers exactly what libertarians are demanding?”

The key problem is right there with the word “city”.  Real Americans don’t live in cities, only godless liberal Obots who worship taxes and Big Government and hate Real Americans.

Real Americans are naturally more pious, firstly because they don’t live in cities.  Second, they don’t expect government to do anything for them, except provide massive farm subsidies, plenty of unjustified military bases offering employment in desolate rural communities, massive defense contracts which pay for massive arms factories, huge networks of roads, etc.  Thirdly, they are more pious because they are more conservative, which is so obvious it needs no explanation.

So when cities suffer as a result of Republican/conservative policies, that’s only justice.  After all, those city people are living in modern-day Sodoms and Gomorras, just begging to be wiped from the face of the earth by God’s righteous retribution for the sins they have committed against Him (chief among them electing a Black Liberal Kenyan Muslim as president instead of that nice maverick John McCain and Real American Sarah Palin). 

So Repent!  Leave the Evil Cities!  Live in Real America and be a farmer!  Embrace Conservatism! Otherwise pay the price, you godless liberal scum!...

Comment #14: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  02:10 PM

http://ifglobalwarmingisrealthenwhyisitcold.blogspot.com/ will never run out of material.

Comment #15: Cris  on  12/30  at  02:17 PM

Also, please do not respond to trolls.  If a troll angers you, please email me so I know to delete him.

Comment #16: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/30  at  02:20 PM

I think conservatives are so used to being told the HAVE to do something, that anything that’s a suggestion is taken as a demand. And if it’s from a ‘lib-uh-ral” it’s gotta be the wrong thing, even if it’s meant to keep you healthy or plow the streets.

Comment #17: Neil C.  on  12/30  at  02:25 PM

Will the argument “It’s cold in December!  Global Warming is a lie!” ever get old?

Comment #18: Zifnab25  on  12/30  at  02:55 PM

Zif, Never as long as the “War on Christmas” continues!

Comment #19: Neil C.  on  12/30  at  03:01 PM

Libertarian@18:

First, you get the predictions that we won’t see any more snow

[citation needed]

Comment #20: Cris  on  12/30  at  03:03 PM

@Comment #18: Libertarian on 12/30 at 12:48 PM

3.  Look, even you guys have to admit that the global warming stories are fun.  First, you get the predictions that we won’t see any more snow; then, with the big snow storms, the stories that they are caused by global warming.  Next, you get stories saying unusual warm temps are caused by global warming; but if it’s way cold, that too is somehow caused by global warming.  When there’s a prediction of more and more severe hurricanes coming because of global warming, then they fail to appear, a new explanation comes out saying the lack of hurricanes was caused by .... well, you know.  All of these tell us little or nothing about global warming, or the lack thereof.  But there is a funny side to this, no?

The brain-damaged superstitions that libertarians have about climate change, and their bizzarre and willful misrepresentations about what the theories actually say, have their own kind of low humor, it is true.

Comment #21: atheist  on  12/30  at  03:04 PM

2) It’s unlikely, but if the mayor has screwed over the unions to the point where they’re having unorganized wildcat strikes, I blame the mayor.  Treating your employees like dirt and then squalling when they’re less than swift in their thankless jobs is about the dumbest thing you can do.

3) You’re really fucking dumb, aren’t you?

Comment #22: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/30  at  03:04 PM

Libertarian, please explain your theory of how hundreds of thousands of scientists have colluded with millions of world leaders and billions of citizens to hoodwink the world about global warming, and how this—-the greatest conspiracy in history, if true—-has no evidence whatsoever to prove that it exists.

Comment #23: Amanda Marcotte  on  12/30  at  03:07 PM

<blockquote>All of these tell us little or nothing about global warming, or the lack thereof.  </blockquote.

Actually, these tell US a great deal about global climate change. They just don’t tell YOU anything, because all the evidence of your posting history here suggests that you are physically incapable of understanding any level of complexity whatsoever.

I’m not going to mock you, though, because it’s not nice to mock the afflicted.

Comment #24: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  03:08 PM

Shit. tag fail. Sorry.

Comment #25: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  03:09 PM

Libertarian, do you know anything about global warming predictions? Scientists have been predicting that the rise in average global temperatures will make the climate less stable and more extreme - hotter summers, colder winters, and more storms.

Comment #26: Maureen  on  12/30  at  03:10 PM

Say it with me, Libertarian:  Weather is not climate.

Comment #27: speedbudget  on  12/30  at  03:11 PM

Look, even you guys have to admit that the global warming stories are fun.  First, you get the predictions that we won’t see any more snow

I will honestly need to see a link on that.  I haven’t seen anyone predict no snow in New York during December.  I’ve heard numerous predictions about increased storm sizes and rising sea levels.  Also, a complete lack of a northern polar ice cap.  Re:  Inconvenient Truth.

Please highlight when Al Gore or any other Global Warning proponent predicted an end to snow storms.

Comment #28: Zifnab25  on  12/30  at  03:22 PM

When there’s a prediction of more and more severe hurricanes coming because of global warming, then they fail to appear

wat

Is your memory like, confined to not go further than 2 years back?  Because those hurricanes totally happened.  Just in the second half of this decade, we’ve had Dennis, Katrina, Rita, Wilma, Ike, Bill, Earl, Danielle, Igor, and Julia, all category 4 or above.  2003, 2004, 2005, and 2010 were all hyperactive hurricane seasons, and 2000, 2001, and 2008 were above normal (2006 and 2007 were near normal, and 2009 was below normal).  2010 was tied for third most active hurricane season on record.

Comment #29: Toitle  on  12/30  at  03:28 PM

Question for Global Climate Change denialists:

If a snowstorm in New York during the winter “proves” “Global Warming” is a hoax, does a week of 115+ degree days in Phoenix during the summer prove that Global Climate Change is true?...

***

And a question for the Wingnuts out there:

If a tree falls in the forest and a unionized city worker doesn’t clean the mess up within a few hours, does that prove Liberalism is wrong and Conservatism is the One True Political Philosophy?...

Comment #30: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  03:35 PM

Maureen:

Libertarian, do you know anything about global warming predictions?

We established years ago that Libertarian doesn’t actually know much about anything at all.

Nothing real, anyway. Pathological narcissism can cover up for a lot of mental inadequacies if allowed free rein.

Comment #31: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/30  at  03:45 PM

2.  What if it turns out that the stories about the snow clearance “problems’ being caused by a public union work slowdown are true?  Does Pandagon have a position on that?

I don’t know about Pandagon, but I would wonder if the public union members feel shafted somehow with personnel cuts and demotions.  How high a morale do you think they should have?

Comment #32: oldfeminist  on  12/30  at  03:56 PM

They say this crap because it pisses off liberals. Period. They couldn’t care less about its truth value or lack thereof, or even its semantic content at all, so this stuff is best characterized as bullshit sensu Frankfurt.

Contemporary American conservatism is all about the tribalism, 24/7/365. No cognitive processes need apply.

Comment #33: Steve LaBonne  on  12/30  at  04:05 PM

”...I would wonder if the public union members feel shafted somehow with personnel cuts and demotions.  How high a morale do you think they should have?”

Libertarian: “None.  Unions are an affront to God and Ayn Rand (sorry to be redundant), and must be destroyed by any means necessary.  The aftermath from the lack of services can always be blamed on Liberals in general or Barack-Obama/ Nancy-Pelosi /Al-Gore /Michael-Moore /Bill-Clinton /Jimmy-Carter /Lyndon-Johnson /Franklin-Roosevelt /Satan.  In this way we approach closer to the ideal society, i.e. one that existed before the Renaissance or only in our Rand-poisoned minds…”

Comment #34: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  04:10 PM

If the pubic unions did have a slowdown, and if that contributed to people who needed emergency medical help (one died) not getting it, does that bother you?
Comment #36: Libertarian on 12/30 at 03:10 PM

In a Libertarian paradise, people who don’t pay for medical help of some kinds (emergency, preventive, end-of-life) don’t get it.  If that contributes to people who need medical help not getting it and dying as a result, does that bother you?

Comment #35: oldfeminist  on  12/30  at  04:17 PM

I almost missed it…*pubic* unions?

Comment #36: oldfeminist  on  12/30  at  04:18 PM

Interesting link, Libertarian. Mostly because of this:

“Heavy snow will return occasionally, says Dr Viner, but when it does we will be unprepared. “We’re really going to get caught out. Snow will probably cause chaos in 20 years time,” he said.”

Which, uh…Do you read any news that ISN’T 10 years out of date? Because This. Is. What. Has. Happened. Already. In the UK this year, in Seattle and DC last year…

Not that it matters, but nothing in your oh-so-clever #3 actually contradicts anything else. Both dry winters AND severe snowstorms can be products of rapidly changing climate patterns. Climate patterns are a) complex, b) interdependent, and c) apparently much too much of a and b for your tiny brain to understand.

Comment #37: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  04:25 PM

Oh my. There are 6 replies at the NRO website, and 43 replies here. Me thinks you’re being a little too hard on Charlotte. Her post was probably only meant half-jokingly as a serious argument, more seriously as a form of “infotainment” which conservatives have recently become rich and famous for. That’s the charitable explanation.

I would love to type more, but I’m too busy scrambling.

Comment #38: TonyWu  on  12/30  at  04:27 PM

@Libertarian 34, I’m not sure what herculean effort it took you to find an 10 year old article to elevate as the centerpiece underpinning AGW theory, but it most certainly does not concern NYC, as the UK is not NYC.

Comment #39: TonyWu  on  12/30  at  04:33 PM

All this talk about snow when the real issue is snoo!

Comment #40: manboobz  on  12/30  at  04:35 PM

@ Libertarian, well that’s kind of like digging back to the 70s to cite a few stories about global cooling right? Of course, the Google Ngram Viewer seems to think that even then, global warming had more currency than global cooling….
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=global+warming,global+cooling&year_start=1960&year_end=1985&corpus=0&smoothing=3

Comment #41: TonyWu  on  12/30  at  04:49 PM

Of course.  That’s what makes it funny.  Very serious here.  Anyone ever laugh at themselves here?

You keep saying this word “funny.” I do not think it means what you think it means. Because…you have neither made a joke, nor reported anything which is remotely funny. You cited a 10 year old article that has in fact been proven to be extremely accurate, given events as they have transpired. And you think this is…what, ironic? Are you Alanis Morrissette?

OMGs them scientists were right! What a bunch of morons, always knowing what they are talking about and using mathematical models to make accurate predictions, and sometimes revising those predictions to reflect new data when it is available. What a bunch of buffoons, bein’ all hundreds of times smarter than Libertarian. Ha Ha Ha.

Of course, libertarians frequently find Ayn Rand readable, so perhaps they merely speak a dialect in which words mean the opposite of their English meanings.

Comment #42: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  04:49 PM

A wonderful program where we bring children to the US from around the world to have heart operations to save their lives.

Good for you! Only 8.4 million uninsured American children left to go! How many of them will get a virtuous libertarian to pay for their medical necessities this year?

Pat-on-the-back FAIL.

Comment #43: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  04:52 PM

I’ll bite: Of course it would bother me. However, the blame in my mind would fall on the city officials responsible for the causes, and continuation, of the union slowdown. Unions don’t hold slowdowns just for shits and giggles. They hold them because their contracts are unfair, unfulfilled, or being stalled by those in charge.

If the city refused to address the unions’ concerns, even to the extent of offering some kind of temporary concession for the emergency situation, then that is on the city.

Comment #44: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  04:59 PM

a) It’s my money too, dickhead. I have a job, I pay taxes.
b) I contributed substantial money to a hospital that devotes more resources than most in the area to treating uninsured children.
c) I elected representatives who support substantial health care reform. They can’t WAIT to spend your money.

Comment #45: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  05:05 PM

They say this crap because it pisses off liberals. Period. They couldn’t care less about its truth value or lack thereof, or even its semantic content at all, so this stuff is best characterized as bullshit sensu Frankfurt.

Yes…but one should add that resentment like this (or ressentiment, for the philosophically and/or Euro-enclined) is at the heart of “conservative” politics today.

Comment #46: Ben Alpers  on  12/30  at  05:05 PM

Oh, and here’s one for you: I don’t deduct charitable donations from my taxes. Because I think taxes are a GOOD thing, and I’m happy to pay them.

Comment #47: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  05:07 PM

Old Fem at 39 - Well, yes it does bother me.  That’s why I do so much volunteer work.  Like the kids I hosted from the Philipines as part of the Rotary Gift of LIfe program.  Have you done that?  A wonderful program where we bring children to the US from around the world to have heart operations to save their lives.  Cost me personally a lot of money.  I was happy to do that.  You?
Comment #44: Libertarian on 12/30 at 03:35 PM

I guess you’re referring to me, though I’m not playing Femme today.

I consider personal charity to be valuable, but not the only thing.  I pay taxes because that means that people get help regardless of how close they can get to me, how cute or young they are, and so on.  One person one vote one voice on how it’s spent, rather than the most well-off people deciding who will live and die.

As to personally?  I have a spouse who is a musician, who gets paid close to nothing to write and play music, whose albums I’ve produced, who’s well known locally and a fuck of a talented person.  That probably costs me way more than those Filipino children cost you. 

I donate to Planned Parenthood and Health Care for the Homeless and give my cast-offs to Goodwill and cans to can drives.  I tip 25 to 30 percent.  I give a dollar to most people who ask because it generally takes a fuck of a lot of shit and sadness to get to that point.

Plus, you don’t give nearly as much charity as Warren Buffett, and he says he doesn’t pay enough taxes.  So he must be right.

Comment #48: oldfeminist  on  12/30  at  05:07 PM

I pay taxes because that means that people get help regardless of how close they can get to me, how cute or young they are, and so on.

Word.

Comment #49: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  05:11 PM

There must be some corollary to Godwin’s rule that covers the phrase “reading comprehension.”

Comment #50: oldfeminist  on  12/30  at  05:16 PM

What part did you do, hmmmm, besides offering to spend my money.

Move to Somalia, chickenshit.

Comment #51: Scott  on  12/30  at  05:19 PM

“But I don’t WANNA move to Somalia! I want to be sure my cowardly and not-very-smart Libertarian ass doesn’t get kidnapped, tortured and shot! I just want the right to complain endlessly about how UNFAIR it is that not getting shot in the next 48 hours actually costs something, when it’s what i DESERVE by the right of being so SPECIAL.”

Comment #52: Well, what?  on  12/30  at  05:22 PM

“But I don’t WANNA move to Somalia! I want to be sure my cowardly and not-very-smart Libertarian ass doesn’t get kidnapped, tortured and shot! I just want the right to complain endlessly about how UNFAIR it is that not getting shot in the next 48 hours actually costs something, when it’s what i DESERVE by the right of being so SPECIAL.”

Someday, when I finally get to take over ABC or whichever network employs Mustache Stossel, he and as many of his friends as I can cram into the boat are getting treated to a free, one-way, 100%-filmed trip to Somalia, where they’ll be turned loose with as much cash as they can carry and told to see how long they’ll last.

“Welcome to the Libertarian Paradise” will air in prime time for as long as any of them remain alive. I fully expect at least half of them to turn on the other half because they think they’ve got more money.

I expect ratings will be absolutely spectacular.

Comment #53: Scott  on  12/30  at  05:31 PM

@Comment #52: Libertarian on 12/30 at 03:01 PM

What part did you do, hmmmm, besides offering to spend my money.

Well, we did nothing of course. Why would we want to do anything ourselves when we can just drain your money away through taxation? I mean really.

Comment #54: atheist  on  12/30  at  05:35 PM

“If the pubic unions did have a slowdown, and if that contributed to people who needed emergency medical help (one died) not getting it, does that bother you?”

Yes, it does bother me. 

Does it bother you when some fat-cigar smoking financial crook on Wall Street demands the next quarter’s financial statement look better, so coverage policies at some health insurance corp are changed, which cascades down the bureaucratic food-chain to become ridiculous restrictions that force Emergency Rooms to close and results in the deaths of people who needed emergency medical care?  Does it bother you when people get sick and their insurance co. terminates their contract?  Does it bother you when our never-ending quest for American supremacy over all results in the deaths of Americans and others?

When you’re dead, it doesn’t matter if you blame Karl Marx, Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, or Ayn Rand — you’re still dead.  We should seek to reduce unnecessary death regardless of its genesis…

“Hellllloooooooo.
Mikey.  Where you go?”

Believe it or not, I have a job, and I can’t stick around here 24/7 just so I can hang on your every word or question…

Comment #55: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  05:43 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/12/30/botched-environmental-forecasts/

all you Global warming…..er…climate change nuts. lol. I guess we know exactly what this planet is doing with our 150 or so years of temp data on an estimated 4 billion year old planet. Think Im gonna go start up the old buick and try to melt some of this 30 inches of snow in NJ.

Comment #56: Casp  on  12/30  at  05:44 PM

I’m actually convinced that American conservatives are somewhat entirely special when compared to conservatives in other countries, who seem a lot more sane and better suited to actual government.

  Re: The “conservative” PM Netanyahu of Israel recently spoke about “...the right of every woman to be in control of her own body.”

  http://israelity.com/2010/12/30/grappling-with-the-katsav-verdict.

  For all their alleged love of Israel, I can’t imagine any American conservative saying something like this. It must be something in the snow.

  Yes, I am engaging in minor thread jacking but I think this illustrates important things about American rightists compared to even other rightists.

Comment #57: Lee  on  12/30  at  05:48 PM

Liberals also say you shouldn’t drink antifreeze, Casp. You gonna let them tell you what to do? Or are you chicken?

Comment #58: Scott  on  12/30  at  05:49 PM

@Comment #63: Scott on 12/30 at 03:31 PM

Someday, when I finally get to take over ABC or whichever network employs Mustache Stossel, he and as many of his friends as I can cram into the boat are getting treated to a free, one-way, 100%-filmed trip to Somalia, where they’ll be turned loose with as much cash as they can carry and told to see how long they’ll last.

“Welcome to the Libertarian Paradise” will air in prime time for as long as any of them remain alive.

Stossel gets captured by slavers. They attempt to sell him to the desert nomads, but the nomads aren’t interested. Finally they unload him during an “every slave must go” promotion.

Comment #59: atheist  on  12/30  at  05:50 PM

“Welcome to the Libertarian Paradise” will air in prime time for as long as any of them remain alive. I fully expect at least half of them to turn on the other half because they think they’ve got more money.
I expect ratings will be absolutely spectacular.

I’d watch that shit.
Then I’d TiVo and watch it again.
Hell, I think I’d keep it on a loop through the day.  That would be some serious entertainment.

Comment #60: Zifnab25  on  12/30  at  05:58 PM

Why they’re the only ones special enough not to get sucked into this pessimism—-and why hope-and-change liberals are supposedly now the sourpusses—-is never explained.

The argument I most frequently hear from wingnuts is that all of us liberals hate the supposedly benevolent and hard-working oil barons (like Dick Cheney) for being so much more successful than we are, and we want to punish them for being successful simply because we’re just jealous. They really believe that liberal disdain for the oil industry is rooted in nothing more than good old-fashioned jealousy.

Wingnuts are incredibly invested in the idea that wealthy people are wealthier than everybody else because they worked harder to get there, and thus our progressive income tax system “punishes” them simply for being successful. Nevermind the fact that even under our supposedly onerous tax code, wealthy people have still managed to get wealthier and wealthier every year, so this notion that they are being punished for being successful is utterly ridiculous.

I once got into a debate about this with a wingnut relative, and the root argument he was making was about “fairness”. He believed that it wasn’t “fair” for the tax rate in the top brackets to be higher than it was in the lower brackets. For the sake of argument, I went along with his belief that progressive taxation is punitive to the highest earners in society. I suggested that maybe the government should impose a flat income tax across the board for eveybody, regardless of income.

But… in the interest of “fairness”, I argued that the playing field needed to be made a little more equal for everyone, that a person’s course in life should not be so heavily determined by how much money their parents had. Why should one kid whose last name is Busch* have more opportunity than another kid who wasn’t born into massive wealth? As such, the best way to ensure that wealth is acquired principally through hard work would be to impose a 100% estate tax with a maximum $250K per immediate family member exemption. As for the complaint that it’s unfair to take away the wealth of a dead person, I ask, “Who is it unfair to?” Certainly not the dead person, because they can’t use the money, and they don’t have an opinion on the matter anyway since they’re umm…. dead. Nor is it unfair to the potential heirs, because they didn’t really do anything to deserve the fortune, unless you believe that the passive action of being born deserves to be rewarded.

————————————————-

*I used “Busch” because 46 year old August Busch, IV, the former CEO of Anheuser-Busch prior to the InBev acquisition of the company, is currently entangled in the suspicious death of his 27 year old girlfriend at his massive mansion in suburban St. Louis last week. It’s not the first time in his life that he’s been tied to the mysterious death of a young woman. If he was anybody other than the great-great grandson of the creator of Budweiser, he’d probably be sitting in a jail cell right now.

Comment #61: DTGslu2K  on  12/30  at  06:05 PM

“Finally they unload him during an “every slave must go” promotion.”

...they try to unload him on some unsuspecting nomads.  When he’s shown to the nomads, he’s right next to an overly chatty and depressive protocol droid named C3PO, who is otherwise useless.

So the nomads initially choose to take Stossel — who has been uncharacteristically quiet until now but looks like they might be able get some work out of him.  But then he opens his piehole and starts spewing some wingnut/libertarian talking points and blaming Barack Obama for how bad the weather is. 

So the Nomads insist on returning Stossel and take the useless protocol droid instead — because at least he’s more pleasant to be around, even if he does nothing all day — and there are some things even a nomad won’t do.  Besides, you don’t feel like the intelligence is being sucked out of your head alongside your humanity. 

Plus, Stossel’s pornstache is just creepy…

Comment #62: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  06:11 PM

Libertarian:

That’s why I do so much volunteer work.

Oh, right. I forgot about your desperate, child-like need for validation.

What nobody tells you is that most sociopaths are extremely good at putting on just enough of a show to convince people with normal brain chemistry that they aren’t sociopaths. I hate to break it to you, but Steerpike isn’t the hero of Gormenghast.

Casp:

all you Global warming…..er…climate change nuts. lol. I guess we know exactly what this planet is doing with our 150 or so years of temp data on an estimated 4 billion year old planet. Think Im gonna go start up the old buick and try to melt some of this 30 inches of snow in NJ.

Liberals also say you shouldn’t cut your cock off with a paring knife and go play in traffic. If I were you, I wouldn’t let those effete, tea-sipping elitists push me around.

Comment #63: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/30  at  06:19 PM

First, you get the predictions that we won’t see any more snow; then, with the big snow storms, the stories that they are caused by global warming.

Ummm…. no.

If you’re going to claim that those who acknowledge climate change (AKA sane people) have been predicting that snow is now a thing of the past, you need to provide a source for that claim. You may have imagined that the scientific community has claimed “climate change” = “no more snow”, but it’s nothing more than your own silly delusional thinking.

You are awarded zero points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Comment #64: DTGslu2K  on  12/30  at  06:22 PM

...run with scissors, swim immediately after eating, jump off a cliff with your friends, play with your old tube-powered radio while in the bath, run your old Buick full throttle in the garage while all the doors are closed, eat candy your get from strangers, hitchhike, trust Greeks bearing gifts, stand under trees during lightning storms, tease the panther…

Comment #65: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  06:26 PM

...smoke while filling your gas tank, poke electrical outlets with a fork, don’t put your passenger seat in the upright position, tell bomb jokes and talk about highjacking the plane while in the security line at the airport, put on blackface makeup and attend a party at an all-Black fraternity, live on a diet of nothing but Halloween candy and root-beer, vote for Republicans…

Comment #66: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  06:40 PM

There are two basic predictions of global warming: increased mean temperature and increased mean precipitation due to the juiced-up evapotranspiration cycle.  For places like the UK with temps usually above freezing, this means A) many fewer snow events (as the left tail of the temperature distribution has less probability density to the left of 32 degress) but B) the snow events will be larger in magnitude when they do occur.  For places like the east coast that frequently have temps below freezing, you’ll have a slight decrease in snow events but those that occur may have more intensity.  For places like the upper midwest where it’s colder than hell, you might have an uptick in snow events and intensity, since it’s often too cold to snow there.  So while not “proof” of global warming, big snow events in northern latitudes is certainly not inconsistent with a basic understanding of global warming predictions and two seconds of thinking about temperature distributions.

Comment #67: TF79  on  12/30  at  06:49 PM

...heat a gallon of gasoline in a metal container in your microwave…

Comment #68: DTGslu2K  on  12/30  at  06:51 PM

@67 - Netanyahu is a conservative.  Very conservative.  He’s just not a complete nihilist like our conservatives.  He’s a complete fucking bastard, but apparently at least retains enough humanity to think that maybe he’s not entitled to dictate, at gunpoint, the medical treatment of his own sister, daughter, mother, or niece.

As a mental exercise, how many American _leftist_ politicians can you envision saying the phrase, “...the right of every woman to be in control of her own body.”  Maybe half?  Two-thirds at most?  When we elect Democrats like Casey and Nelson and Stupak?

Of course, I’d like to ask Mr. Netanyahu how it impacts “...the right of every woman to be in control of her own body” if that body happens to be in an apartment in Gaza when an Israeli missile tears it apart.

Comment #69: libdevil  on  12/30  at  06:52 PM

Run on the idea that government doesn’t work, then once in office chronically underfund basic programs like law enforcement, education, the FDA, etc, and voila!  You prove that government doesn’t work.

The hysterically funny Roy Zimmerman song “Vote Republican” points out exactly this thing:

Ooooooh, ooooooh, government is the problem
Ooooooh, oooooooh, vote for us and we’ll prove it

On YouTube. Worth at least a dozen watchings.

Comment #70: kristin  on  12/30  at  07:02 PM

...climb into a wooden barrel and go over Niagara Falls, become an intravenous heroin addict, trespass into Area 51…

Comment #71: MikeEss  on  12/30  at  07:02 PM

Netanyahu is a conservative.  Very conservative.  He’s just not a complete nihilist like our conservatives.

Precisely.

I find it very disturbing that President Obama, our supposedly godless, evil, Marxist overlord, leans to the right of PM Stephen Harper of Canada and PM David Cameron of the UK, both of whom are members of the Conservative Party in their respective nations. Our supposedly most liberal candidate for head of government is probably more conservative than the most conservative candidates for the heads of government in Canada and the United Kingdom.

Comment #72: DTGslu2K  on  12/30  at  07:03 PM

As a mental exercise, how many American _leftist_ politicians can you envision saying the phrase, “...the right of every woman to be in control of her own body.” Maybe half?  Two-thirds at most?  When we elect Democrats like Casey and Nelson and Stupak?

I agree with the gist of your argument, though I would use the words “American Democratic politicians” instead of “American leftist politicians”. I imagine that Casey, Nelson, and Stupak were probably politically to the left of whatever Republican candidates they faced in their last elections, but that doesn’t make any of them leftists. Bernie Sanders is one of the very few Democratic U.S. Senators that could be labelled “leftist”, and imagine the current total number of “leftists” in that legislative body could be counted on one hand.

Comment #73: DTGslu2K  on  12/30  at  07:14 PM

I feel threatened by the Penis Mobiles. It’s probably from the ten years that I drove a Ford Festiva.

Comment #74: schwag of tulsa  on  12/30  at  07:16 PM

...even though the motivations of these people are never established.

Amanda, you pointed out the motivation yourself: us limp-wristed progressives are mad (“MAD!” I tell you!) with envy over their penis-mobiles, and have constructed this elaborate charade to force their manly selves into femin-mobiles such as Smart Cars, where their fat asses will be hideously uncomfortable and they will catch teh ghey.

No vehicle that doesn’t denude a hectare of rainforest, kill an endangered species, AND en-fog a cubic mile of atmosphere per mile is worth bothering with.

Comment #75: Eric_RoM  on  12/30  at  07:27 PM

They say this crap because it pisses off liberals. Period.

An ex-colleague of mine did EXACTLY this on fb, with a long winded psuedo xmas greeting to his “progressive friends” that was all “pc buzzwords”, then a succinct “Merry Christmas” to ‘my conservative friends’.

Really, fuckwad?  You _have_ friends?  Grow the fuck up.  Now I remember why I cut you out of my circle.

(This is a guy who constantly rails at the European social net, while he can buy $5,000 bicycles.  Must be tough, being on top.)

Comment #76: Eric_RoM  on  12/30  at  07:53 PM

Eric_RoM,  my (liberal) friend’s (liberal) dad sent her that same holiday greeting and we all thought it was hilarious.

But we noted at the time that it would have been infuriating if it had been sent by someone conservative with a belligerent or passive-aggressive attitude.

Comment #77: kristin  on  12/30  at  08:53 PM

Kristin, lucky you, it became a case of “pointing at the sideshow geeks”, rather than a condescending slap at your own values.  (Let’s see if I get this mathematically correct:)  Communication channels are not transitive.

But, it was such a perfect example of “let’s piss off the liberals (just for fun)” I had to share.  I’m sure that putrid meme was a scream down at teabagger HQ.

Even if I give it all the benefit of the doubt, it still proves that conservatives just aren’t funny.  On purpose, that is.

Comment #78: Eric_RoM  on  12/30  at  09:45 PM

Hey, wasn’t the source of the support for end-of-life counseling from a Republican in Congress?

Comment #79: Crissa  on  12/30  at  09:52 PM

Personally, the only thing I got from the ten hours I drove a Ford Festiva was a sore neck.

Comment #80: Crissa  on  12/30  at  09:53 PM

libdevil, I used to be very against Netanyahu but I’m actually warming up to him. He is a Jewish nationalist and a security hawk but other than that, I don’t think he is that conservative on other issues. In Israel, left and right basically refer to the level of nationalism and security hawkism rather than anything else. Netanyahu’s government introduced legislation to entirely ban the fur trade in Israel a few months ago and despite being in the Middle East, Israel does have a significant fur trade. I also think you really need to look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from the Israeli angle a little bit more.

  I recommend: http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/ Be warned, Yaacov makes a lot of sense but many of the people who post on his blog are Jewish or pro-Israel wing nuts.

My basic position is that Palestinian leadership is not that great and that the difference between Hamas and Fatah is that Fatah is a little more subtle in what they say than Hamas.

  Amanda, I apologize for this minor thread jacking.

Comment #81: Lee  on  12/30  at  10:03 PM

I suppose that the article mentioned in Comment #34 by Libertarian forgot to mention it was about Britain, which isn’t Washington DC.  Britain historically has had snow in the winter.  We don’t just have 150 years of data on weather in Britain, we have hundreds of years of data on the winter of Britain.

Comment #82: Crissa  on  12/30  at  10:15 PM

I believe it was the conservatives/global warming deniers who originally pushed the term “climate change,” because they thought it sounded like a harmless euphemism, then came to regret it because it actually sounds more ominous to a lot of people than “global warming.” As well it should. It is ominous. It means crazier weather patterns, and crazier weather patterns are what we’ve been having.

Comment #83: manboobz  on  12/30  at  10:48 PM

what would you be willing to give up to “save the planet”? Are you sure enough that you would allow the Govt to force you to drive a bike to work? Give up air conditioning? how about a maximum temp of 60 degrees in your house in winter? give up 50% of your income to build wind farms? Live in a GREEN 1000 ft SQ house? All on a theory based on absolute shit. Maybe the earth is warming….maybe not….but to think that us puny humans can actually CHANGE THE PLANET is madness. We simple do not have enough data to make a definitive call that Human activity is warming the planet. I mean come on, the sun can heat this little ball from 93 million miles away, yet you believe that us driving our cars everyday is somehow warming the planet. lol. Face it Green is the new RED, leftists (like those here) seeking control of our lives. Give me my 100 Watt light bulbs back and stay out of my friggin life.

Comment #84: Casp  on  12/30  at  10:56 PM

Um yes, six billion “puny humans”, with 150 years of industrial revolution and factory farms behind them, residing on six of the seven continents can have a HELL of an impact on the planet.

Comment #85: TheRealistMom  on  12/31  at  12:13 AM

And remember, we don’t need to change it much.  Raising the temperature of the overall system by even a few degrees could make things very uncomfortable for us.

Comment #86: Seraph  on  12/31  at  12:30 AM

Libertarian #54:

You know, it’s funny you should put it that way, and I think it’s very descriptive of the single biggest reason Libertarianism is bullshit. No, it is not good to let people die. But it is also not good to assume that just because of the nature of their job, they’re supposed to bend over and take it whenever management wants to put the squeeze on them.

Thing is, Libertarianism fails miserably when it’s not allowed to dehumanize people. It’s hard to fathom how The Elect (tm) are supposed to rise in the world by their own initiative, yet when groups of people try to do that as a collective, they’re vilified as moochers. They’re doing exactly what Libertarians claim people should do, but the fact that they’re doing it as a group somehow invalidates their effort. This, more than anything else, is why people tend to think of Libertarianism as the philosophy of bitter spoiled brats—you all come off as a bunch of entitled whiners who have trouble regarding anyone who isn’t you as even human.

Comment #87: BrianX  on  12/31  at  12:46 AM

casp:

What do you need a hundred-watt bulb for, unless it’s to run an Easy-Bake? Even if it made no other difference, the benefits of drastically cutting your electric bills would seem to make you look sorta stupid. Of course, then we bring in your ignorance of chemistry and physics and sheer bullheadedness..

Comment #88: BrianX  on  12/31  at  12:49 AM

“Still waiting for an answer to my question at #36.”

I answered your question in #65 and then asked you some questions too, my “libertarian” friend.  When ya gonna answer my questions?...

Comment #89: MikeEss  on  12/31  at  12:53 AM

Last I checked, 100-watt bulbs were readily available at most fine stores…I don’t know why some people don’t think they can buy them anymore.  Could it be that right-wingers just aren’t as persecuted as they make themselves out to be?

I also love the reductio ad absurdum arguments:  “Doing something about climate change means living in an igloo in the middle of winter in your underwear!  Forever!  Are you willing to do that?  Are you?  Because that what the LIEBERALS want!” 

Because, you know, in real life there’s never any middle ground.  Taking away a guy’s 100 watt bulbs is slippery slope that will inevitably lead to banning cars and having to wear loin cloths while living in igloos.  It’s just that simple.

Comment #90: Captain Bathrobe  on  12/31  at  01:26 AM

Second BrianX @ #99.  Yet another example of how conservatives would rather hurt themselves than do anything that liberals like.

Furthermore, to Casp:

1) If I’m giving 50% of my income, I want more than some wind farms.  They better be rigging Mercury with solar panels, Transmetropolitan-style.

2) The fact that you include living in a 1,000-sq-foot space on your list of unthinkable sacrifices just illustrates how clueless and privileged you really are.

Comment #91: Seraph  on  12/31  at  01:33 AM

Jeebus, MikeEss, that was too good.  I’d be afraid to try that type of cross ideology satire.  You know, like crossing your eyes, which your mom told you not to do, “‘cause they might stick that way?”

Comment #92: phylosopher  on  12/31  at  01:44 AM

    I pay taxes because that means that people get help regardless of how close they can get to me, how cute or young they are, and so on.

Word.
Comment #59: Well, what?  on 12/30 at 04:11 PM

Word x2

Comment #93: phylosopher  on  12/31  at  01:54 AM

Are you sure enough that you would allow the Govt to force you to drive a bike to work? Give up air conditioning? how about a maximum temp of 60 degrees in your house in winter? give up 50% of your income to build wind farms?

If that was what it took to, y’know, keep the human race alive? Duh. Of course I’d do it. Not all of us value our conveniences above the lives of other people.

Fortunately, we’re not yet at the stage where governments need to be forcing people to take any drastic steps in order to preserve the human species. But you and your idiotic ilk are sure trying hard to get us there.

Live in a GREEN 1000 ft SQ house?

Oh lawsy no! Not the horrors of living in a house 300 square feet bigger than the one I currently live in with three other people and a huge dog! Don’t make me do THAT! *snicker* Jesus H are you ever a pants-wetting privileged baby.

Comment #94: kristin  on  12/31  at  02:10 AM

Comment #95: Casp on 12/30 at 09:56 PM

Let me get this straight: you’re proposing to make the roads I commute on safe for bike riders, reduce my electricity and heating bills AND give me a house more than half again as big as the apartment I live in now (oh, for the glory of a dedicated sewing room and a yard to grow veggies in!), and all I have to do is pay more in taxes and buy some sweaters? Where do I sign?

Comment #95: Bex  on  12/31  at  02:21 AM

Casp:

The global warming zealots (read liberal) predict every kind of weather pattern and attribute it to global warming. Anyone who has paid attention to their annual alarms knows they’ve predicted it all so that their bases can be covered.

The fact that the predictions made by global warming theory have come true (after said predictions were made, it’s important to note) does not mean that global warming theory is an ex post facto liberal conspiracy. Time doesn’t work that way, not even if you’re too stupid to understand how time works. By your logic, anyone who correctly predicts the outcome of a football game before it occurs is by definition guilty of fixing that game.

Again, if you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, your opinion doesn’t count. My cats have a better understanding of global warming theory than you do, and they eat their own vomit.

Comment #96: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/31  at  03:11 AM

Jerome B.:

If you want to get a good idea of what a bitter spoiled brat sounds like log on here a day or two a week and read some of the shit these guys(?) spew. It’s like a tutorial on selfishness.

And with this utterance, I think Jerome has finally broken the stick rule. How he’s managed to last this long is a complete mystery to me.

Comment #97: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  12/31  at  03:14 AM

My cats have a better understanding of global warming theory than you do, and they eat their own vomit.

I think I just laughed up my own spleen.

Comment #98: kristin  on  12/31  at  03:16 AM

There are two basic predictions of global warming: increased mean temperature and increased mean precipitation due to the juiced-up evapotranspiration cycle.

As a California resident, I would looooove for one of these global-warming deniers to come on right now and claim this isn’t happening.  Not that we haven’t had wet winters before, but the last few weeks have been Biblical.

I do get a kind of perverse enjoyment from these guys’ fantasies of being oppressed by jackbooted environmentalist shock troops, especially when their idea of unthinkably hideous privation is pretty much the way lots of middle-class Americans already live.  I walk and take public transit to work (don’t even have a bike!) and live in a house a little over 1,000 square feet.  It’s fascinating that there are people who think life wouldn’t be worth living if they had to live like me.

I remember we had one a while back whose ultimate horror was having to live… in an APARTMENT!  Like an animal!

Comment #99: Shaenon  on  12/31  at  03:34 AM

but to think that us puny humans can actually CHANGE THE PLANET is madness.
We FUBAR’d pretty much every terrestrial ecosystem tens of thousands of years ago, altering the climate isn’t that much more impressive.

Comment #100: Devonian  on  12/31  at  04:00 AM

Casp, I already ride my bike or public transportation to school, don’t use air conditioning, and keep my house on 68 in the winter. My apartment is 840 square feet, which I find perfectly capacious for me, my daughter, and the cats. When I move in with my boyfriend in a month or two, we’ll be moving into a 1,400 square foot palace. I don’t have very much stuff, and the stuff I do have is carefully selected for environmental impact as well as usefulness. And funnily enough, I’m perfectly happy with all this. Why? Because it’s perfectly obvious that humans can change the planet. We do it every day. You can tell by the way that New York is no longer an island inhabited by a small tribe of native Americans and by the way that Japan’s landmass keeps growing. Maybe you, personally, as one person can’t change the planet much, but there’s almost 7 billion of us.

Comment #101: katydid  on  12/31  at  10:48 AM

I think these trolls have some kind of problem logging comments in a thread into their long term memory. They just reset like an episode of the Simpsons where nothing’s changed since the last time they hit the Blaspheme button: Jerome, Casp, and Lib have all had their arguments ripped to shreds and they haven’t even noticed. Either that or they’re simply incapable of debate beyond “I’m rubber, you’re glue.”

Comment #102: Dr. Locrian  on  12/31  at  10:55 AM

Hmmm - woke up this a.m. to a thunderstorm - and not a flake of the 10+” of snow we had left.  It may reach 60 degrees here today - in January.  I was skiing here 2 days ago.  SO according to the deniers - I win - climate change/GW proven, right?

@ Katydid #113 - some folks can’t figure out the difference between owning stuff and having it own them.

Comment #103: phylosopher  on  12/31  at  12:35 PM

I will admit a 1,000 sq foot home would be difficult for me- right now. It’s not like I’m living in much more, I looked up the specs for a similar manufactured home as mine and it was just over 1300 sq feet. Which might be somewhat spacious except that it is for 4 bedrooms, a dining room, kitchen, and two baths, with 4 (formerly 5) people living here, along with 2 cats and 3 dogs. Because of my kids ages/ disability/ etc it’s not really feasible for any of them to share rooms. The idea that for most situations/ smaller families that 1,000 sq is horrendous is a bit beyond me though… all I need is a place to sleep, a place to cook, a decent bathroom, and a spot for my computer.

Comment #104: TheRealistMom  on  12/31  at  12:44 PM

@#85:
This fat-assed progressive will thank you not to body snark about anyone, even conservatives.
@#95:
They’re great for keeping baby chickens warm in their nursery box.
@trolls:
Seriously?  Why are you wasting your time here?  You think baseless arguments about a global warming “hoax” are going to convince us?  Or do you just enjoy having your arguments shut down?

Comment #105: vim876  on  12/31  at  12:48 PM

Sorry for multi-posting, but by #95 I meant #99.

Comment #106: vim876  on  12/31  at  12:51 PM

I notice in the NY Post today that there are continuing stories about the slowdown.  This is an interesting position you progressives are taking.  In reaction to pay and labor cuts (we’re gonna see way more of this - there’s no money left], you are saying it’s ok not to plow the streets in and after a blizzard, even if people die as a result.  Whew.  That’s kinda strong.

The question of whether public employees have the right to strike, and whether they have a moral imperative to refrain from striking when it might hinder essential services (although I think it’s stretching a bit to claim that people are likely to die from less timely snow plowing), is a complex one that you obviously have no interest in discussing, but if you’re a real libertarian I’m surprised by your stance.  Don’t you support the right of individuals to refuse to contribute to the common good if they don’t feel like it?  They’re just going Galt on the roads.

If you’re genuinely concerned about the good people of New York, I hope you take this incident as a demonstration of all the important work our civil servants do, and think about that the next time you rail about taxes and useless government bureaucrats.

but to think that us puny humans can actually CHANGE THE PLANET is madness.

I was going to respond to this yesterday, but my wifi was cut off by a flock of passenger pigeons, and you know those things take hours to pass overhead.  But what are you going to do?  Now, if you’ll excuse me, I gotta go chisel bird crap off my house.

Comment #107: Shaenon  on  12/31  at  02:30 PM

bahahahaha! “Give me my 100 Watt light bulbs back and stay out of my friggin life. ” that summarizes the wingnut crybabies in quite a nice little capsule.

hell, the fluorescent spiral bulbs are pretty damn bright, catch up with recent technology.

Comment #108: chibi  on  12/31  at  02:49 PM

Phylosopher @115, there was a philosopher who, in the 1970s, postulated that there were two orientations or approaches to stuff, the “having” orientation and the “doing” orientation. I think some people get so caught up in “having” that they can no longer do for fear of not having anymore. It’s kind of sad, really.

Comment #109: katydid  on  12/31  at  03:26 PM

Libertarian:

You’re still dehumanizing them. I cannot take your arguments even remotely seriously because of that.

Comment #110: BrianX  on  12/31  at  03:57 PM

Here’s the thing: they’re not day laborers. This is what they do for a living and they expect to be treated as the vital members of the community that they are. If they’re getting a raw deal, do you really expect them to do it just because, even though they’re not getting paid a fair wage for it?

Evidently you do, and therein lies the problem. The people who do these jobs are not slaves. They should have the right to expect to be treated fairly; a decent wage is not a privilege reserved only to white-collar people. Everything you say shows that you really don’t give a flying fuck about those people because, by virtue of providing a necessary service, they evidently have no right to complain when the shit hits the fan. In any case, the slowdowns and strikes are symptomatic of a larger problem—shit-for-brains like you are arguing for tax cuts right and left with no real understanding that the blame trickles up. It’s a structural problem that goes right to the fact that people with the most means go to any extreme they can to avoid helping to pay the bills, and people like you are happy to support that, and blame anyone you perceive to be a moocher for the problem.

Libertarians are useful idiots, frankly…

Comment #111: BrianX  on  12/31  at  04:08 PM

I notice in the NY Post today that there are continuing stories about the slowdown. 
Comment #116: Libertarian on 12/31 at 11:40 AM

You of all people should know that (a) the NYPost is a rag* and (b) stories about something aren’t proof of anything.

*Sample headline:  “Sanitation workers selfishly slowed down the cleanup”

These “workers” were hired to, and paid to, plow the streets.  When it came time to fulfill their obligations, they failed.  On purpose. 
Comment #121: Libertarian on 12/31 at 01:40 PM

Clearly you have no idea what a “job action” is.

You do just what your job requirements state you need to do.  No more, no less.  You take the breaks you are entitled to, you don’t work beyond your assigned time, you don’t work any harder than you’re supposed to.

If they were assigned to scrape, say, 5th avenue from 33rd to 38th streets, they kept their blades up until they got there.  They took the breaks they were entitled to.  Left when their shifts were up.

From the abovementioned article, “The snow-removal snitches said they were told to keep their plows off most streets and to wait for orders before attacking the accumulating piles of snow.”

Sounds like they held up their end of the deal.  They’re making the point that that’s not enough to get the job done, and therefore more workers are needed.

They’re just going Galt on the roads.
Comment #120: Shaenon on 12/31 at 01:30 PM

Shaenon wins the internets.

Comment #112: oldfeminist  on  12/31  at  04:19 PM

I answered Libertarian’s question, why won’t he answer mine?  Is he afraid to be seen as an inhumane bastard with no regard for human life other than his own?  Or will he admit that True Libertarian Societies, before they destroyed themselves, would be barbaric hells bearing no resemblance to anything livable, but with a sickening resemblance to a real-life version of The Quick and the Dead — and without Sharon Stone…

Comment #113: MikeEss  on  12/31  at  04:20 PM

Re Comment #95 by Casp:  I do bicycle to work.  I don’t have air conditioning.  I level the temp at 60F for most of the house.  I’d love to have a wind farm, I hope to save up money so I can do tree work in my spare time.  I have a 800 sq ft detached home.

I don’t know why you think that two hundred year old irrefutable data that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and fifty years of direct data saying CO2 levels in the atmosphere is rising are ‘shit’, because that makes you pretty stupid.

Let’s leave you in the garage while your car is running and you tell us if the CO2 doesn’t increase.  Tell me if having a million people walk through your living room doesn’t damage the carpets.  To think the planet is somehow infinite and unchangeable is to be totally ignorant of the fact that it is definitely finite and contains seven billion people - most of which do not yet have a car.  But they’d like one.

Comment #114: Crissa  on  12/31  at  06:38 PM

Mike if he was embarassed of being seen as an inhumane bastard, he wouldn’t have called himself “libertarian.”

Comment #115: alysia  on  12/31  at  07:38 PM

These “workers” were hired to, and paid to, plow the streets.  When it came time to fulfill their obligations, they failed.  On purpose.  I dunno.  That seems like an invitation to get fired.  But don’t worry, Bloomberg is no RR.

Wrong.  See, oldfeminist at 126. 

A “job action” used to be known as “work-to-rule.”  This means the workers perform their exact job descriptions, no more and no less.  The workers performed exactly to their job descriptions and you blame them for not being authorized by the city to go above and beyond their authority to perform.  Why not put the blame on the city - which refused to hire enough workers and secure enough resources to adequately and safely complete the work - where it belongs?  Oh…because those things are paid for by TAXES! 

By that logic, you are arguing that every government job should be performed for free.  I have a desk at the DMV with your name on it.  Don’t worry about how you are going to pay your rent or eat, because it’s a public job, which you must perform 24/7/365 for zero pay.

See how your premise falls apart now?

Lotta people would be very happy to have their jobs at 50% of the pay and benes.

Again, you are arguing that basically any job should be performed for free (or next to nothing) if you say that it should.  As a former employment litigator, I strenuously disagree, seeing as how it’s a violation of every known labor code I can think of for an employer to demand unremunerated labor.

This is the same logic, by the way, which has led to the U.S.‘s illegal immigrant problem.  To wit, silly Libertarians and other fat-cats have decided that they shouldn’t have to pay any of the workers in their enterprises minimum wage, so they recruit coyotes to smuggle workers into the country and put them to work illegally, for less than minimum wage and with no labor protections.  Inevitably, INS and ICE find out about these illegal operations (either through SSN matching/verification programs or through local reports), then swoop in, raid the companies and deport all the undocumented workers.

Let us hope that you never operate an enterprise that employs anybody.

On second thought, go ahead and operate that small factory or warehouse or office or whatever other business you either inherited from your family or your family put you work in.  Your desire to violate the labor code is so blatantly obvious that I am quite certain there is an Employment Defense attorney in your jurisdiction who stands to make a fortune just off defending all the claims that your stupidity is bound to cause.

Comment #116: Mezosub  on  12/31  at  09:04 PM

Those commies at NASA are probably going to get slammed.  They’re saying it’s the hottest year since records started being kept (1890).

How long before Rush Limbaugh gets on the mic and starts bad-mouthing all those NASA scientists?  You know the ones.  Same bunch that faked the moon landing. /s

Enjoy.

Comment #117: The Tim Channel  on  01/01  at  09:22 AM

MikeEss #127:

I’m pretty sure that’s a feature, not a bug. Don’t forget, most Libertarians are the type who think they’d be on the top of the heap when the shit hits the fan.

Comment #118: BrianX  on  01/01  at  02:14 PM

The same guys who think sanitation workers and teachers make too much think the wall street guys need to be paid millions because they’re totally worth it.  can we have a teacher-for-wallstreeter swap program, and see which does better in the other’s job?

Comment #119: gretchen  on  01/01  at  03:10 PM

2010 was:
The hottest year ever in most Northeast cities like Boston, or one of the hottest 5 overall
The hottest summer ever in Boston
AND IT ALSO FEATURED MORE SNOW THAN AVERAGE AND MUCH MORE RAIN.

Not to mention TWO DAYS in SEPFUCKINGTEMBER that were hotter than ANY day in the previous EIGHT years prior to 2010, part of a six fucking day heat wave.

That is why us professionals call it CLIMATE CHANGE.

Comment #120: Ms Kate  on  01/01  at  10:53 PM

@Tim Channel - exactly.  Rush Limbaugh will probably dredge out some physicist to say they are measuring high and low temperatures wrong - somebody with no laboratory or climate expertise, mind you.

Comment #121: Ms Kate  on  01/01  at  11:00 PM

Oldfeminist @ 126 makes a great point about what “Work to Rule” is, but let’s face it, the story is bullshit

1 We know why the plowing was a clusterfuck – the city waited too long to declare a snow emergency.  This is a fact, admitted by the city.  Once you are late having the plows hit the street, you get abandoned cars blocking streets making plowing them impossible

2 The claim is that supervisors wanted a slowdown, supervisors aint “union bosses”

3 Five snow plowdrivers were so concerned that streets were not plowed that they went to hang around at a Republican city councilman’s house instead of, I don’t know, maybe driving a snowplow,
yeah right, and I’m the pope

Comment #122: jefft452  on  01/02  at  12:58 AM

PS
happy new year, everyone

Comment #123: jefft452  on  01/02  at  01:29 AM

I particularly like the Libertoonian’s parenthetical remark at #116 that further pay cuts and layoffs are inevitable because there’s just no money left so we should all just get used to it.

Not noticing, of course, that this is New York.  There’s plenty of, piles of, obscene giant stacks of wealth all over the city.  It’s held by a relatively small handful who refuse to pay taxes and have the influence, through their obscene piles of wealth, to see that they don’t.  But no, tax policy isn’t the issue; there just isn’t any wealth in this country, we’re too poor to have basic services like snow removal, streetlights, cops, firefighters, public health care, or decent education. 

Why, we’re just the USA, after all.  Maybe rich countries with smart people in them like Brazil or Cuba or Malaysia can provide such things for their people (ok, granted that snow removal isn’t much of a problem in those specific nations, just as malaria isn’t a real problem in NYC; you get the point), but not us.  We’re just poor dumb Americans; who could possibly expect us to do what even developing nations manage to do, let alone what the rest of the industrialized world does.

Comment #124: Chocolate Covered Cotton  on  01/03  at  12:54 PM
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