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Next entry: Randall Terry presser: ‘Tiller reaped what he sowed’ Previous entry: The “non-violent” anti-abortion activists

Parallels and Priorities

In the aftermath of Dr. Tiller’s murder, I’ve found myself pondering the nature of terrorism. I was actually quite surprised by where this line of thought took me; I found myself, of all places, in a position of empathy with those on the right for whom the Islamofascist [sic] menace is the paramount concern.image

Note, of course, that empathy is not sympathy, and it especially important that the two terms not be conflated in this context. Furthermore, it is to some extent fruitless to empathize with those who have no empathy themselves, but nevertheless, as I considered the lengths to which I’d like to see the state go in response to his murderer - and indeed his murderer’s fellow travellers - I won’t lie and say that heavy handed scorched-earth ideas didn’t enter my mind. “And why not?” I thought. “These domestic terrorists are a growing scourge, a threat to our way of life; if we don’t crack down hard now other fringe assholes will simply be emboldened by the success of this murdering piece of shit and become murdering pieces of shit themselves.”

Even as I thought this, of course, I recognized what is obvious to anyone smart enough to read this blog, which is that if there’s a point of separation between my thought processes and those of people like Michelle Malkin or Erick Erickson, it’s difficult to identify. And, lest anyone think I’m worried that I’m not better than people like that, have no fear; I’m way better than them. So are you. So, frankly, are most people - and yet I would argue that people who are better than Malkin and Erickson (and even me) nevertheless have had moments where they think like I have been.

And so I thought, why should it be that when a country that I am a part of is attacked and 3000 people die, my mind doesn’t run to an offensive position, but when one man is gunned down, I’m loaded for bear? Could it be that I’m really exactly as anti-American as the conservatives suggest? Could it be that I’m more protective of a doctor I’ve never met than of a college classmate? What am I, some kind of liberal monster?

Warning: Spoilers ahead.
Obviously, the answer to all three questions is no. And there it could lay, because given the fact that everything is all about me, I’m usually quite handy at avoiding making that obvious here at Pandagon. But I wonder whether we can’t rescue some realizations about the right from all of this navel-gazing.

Assuming that there are others whose reactions are like mine (and that’s not a big assumption, since such comments litter the left-wing blogosphere today), there must be something at the heart of the difference in triggers between the right and left. We can’t all be America-haters - and this is a statement that is utterly uncontroversial, despite right-wing attempts to claim the contrary - so why should it be that we avoid calls for extermination of Islam but fantasize about waterboarding Randall Terry?

The answer lies in commitment. What have we committed ourselves to? Speaking for myself, I’ve committed to support the rights of women to bodily autonomy (and, in the case of a high percentage of Dr. Tiller’s patients, to survival) and this murder is, besides a heinous personal crime, an assault on that concept. As are all “pro-life” terrorist acts.

As, for that matter, are Operation Rescue and the other pro-forced-birth organizations. All “pro-life” organizations are complicit. They may be complicit to various degrees. Even in my fever of blame I see the difference between pulling the trigger, buying the gun, and simply standing by mutely. But complicit nonetheless.

But that last paragraph? Again, it has eerie echoes, because I’ve seen it a thousand times. About Islam. Because right-wingers are committed, too. So committed to the cause of American imperialism that any assault on that concept brings them up as one to condemn those who pulled the trigger, those who bought the gun, and those who stood by mutely.

(The parallels aren’t perfect, of course - but then again, I did say we were better than them, didn’t I? And we don’t, for the most part, expand our anger at anti-choice organizations to Christianity as a whole; then again…on my real-name Facebook profile, where having gone to a Christian college and attending a Quaker church I have a preponderance of Christian friends, I posted a Tiller news item and braced myself for a torrent of condemnation that never came. But the point is, while none of my friends or family are to my knowledge members of Operation Rescue, I nevertheless tend to tar all Christians with the same brush because of the success the anti-choicers have had in conflating “Christian” with “woman-hating.” The fact that I’m technically tarred by that brush, too, is neither here nor there when it’s anger we’re talking about.)

And this is how I know it’s not America they want to defend: Because when an American doctor is killed for a political reason, they are, relatively, sanguine. Anti-abortion terrorists assault and kill Americans because of a legal medical procedure, something codified in American law through the American legal system. Clinic bombings are attacks on America. Politically and religiously motivated assassinations are attacks on America. And yet the right manages to resist freezing the finances of Operation Rescue or rounding up Christians on flights into the midwest.

The removal of choice from American women is not a threat to American imperialism*, and therefore crimes committed in its furtherance are not terrorism. The resistance of Islamic countries to American imperialism, on the other hand, is - and the crimes committed in its furtherance are heinous terrorist acts worthy of any response imaginable. This is the position of the modern American right. This is insanity.

The difference, of course, between the left and the right is that we (so far, anyway) wake up from our fever dream of revenge and retribution. The right makes it a reality, and we - Americans, all - pay the price.

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* More like a requirement for, but that’s for another day…

Image by ToastyKen used under CC license.

 

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Posted by Auguste on 02:48 PM • (36) Comments

The difference, of course, between the left and the right is that we (so far, anyway) wake up from our fever dream of revenge and retribution.

And that is precisely we have always held the moral high ground in this debate.

We vehemently oppose the causes of these rightwing extremists.  We speak out against them.  We boycott them.  We call for them to be punished in a court of law when they have broken our laws.  We pledge time and money to causes which stand up for our beliefs in the face of this opposition.

But we do not violently exact revenge on our opponents in a vigilante manner that shows disregard for our Constitution or our laws.  As I pointed out earlier, one of the most vilified organizations of the right is the American Civil Liberties Union, an organization that they often find to be in opposition to their causes.  And yet, it is this very organization - the ACLU - that will stand up, and has stood up, to defend these monsters First Amendment rights to spew their bile.

Property damage aside, when is the last time a group characterized as being “left-wing extremists” perpetrated illegal acts which resulted in death or bodily harm to one of its opponents?

And yet on the right, we have Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, Paul Jennings Hill, and now Scott Roeder, just to name a few.  Is there anyone on the left that has killed or maimed an opponent in a vigilante act to further their cause?

Not in my lifetime.

Comment #1: DTG in STL  on  06/01  at  03:25 PM

Personally, I fantasize about (which is different from advocating) waterboarding both Randall Terry and Bin Laden, they’re both right wing fanatic monsters. I DID feel bloodlust on 9/11 and I feel the same desire for vengeance in reaction to this murder.

The thing is you can’t “get tough” on Al Qaeda in the conservative reccommended fashion without killing lots of innocent people, and we can’t pursue the same methods with Operation Rescue unless you drop cluster bombs on Kansas. Maybe then they’d understand.

Comment #2: typist  on  06/01  at  03:35 PM

And so I thought, why should it be that when a country that I am a part of is attacked and 3000 people die, my mind doesn’t run to an offensive position, but when one man is gunned down, I’m loaded for bear? Could it be that I’m really exactly as anti-American as the conservatives suggest? Could it be that I’m more protective of a doctor I’ve never met than of a college classmate? What am I, some kind of liberal monster?

:-p There’s a big difference between Terry Randall and anonymous third-world Islamic radical.  That would be like a winger comparing Kalik Shak Mohammad with some guy passing out bibles in front of an abortion clinic.

I have no doubt that, back in 2002, if you’d been asked, “Hey, what should we do with this Osama bin Laden guy now that we’ve caught him” you would have a more radicalized answer than seven years later after we’ve watched people run for re-election cycle after cycle on the “Bin Laden!  Dead or Alive!” political platform.

The Tiller murder might have radicalized you a bit more because you can look down the block and pick out a neighbor or two who smiled at it.  Or because you know that - in a different world, under different circumstances - it might be you in the cross hairs.  But you’re not being honest with yourself if you compare freezing Operation Rescue’s funds with anything less than Al Qaeda’s.

The winger War on Brown People is a problem because they are happy to target just about anybody with the wrong skin tone.  If you were suggesting we carpet bomb the Vatican in retaliation, I’d say you were crazy.  If you are currently suggesting we loose the FBI on the folks that run http://www.dr-tiller.com that ,is just sensible.

Comment #3: Zifnab25  on  06/01  at  03:41 PM

This is a good post and I’d like to thank you for making it.

Hearing wingnuts talk about the need for “understanding” and “restraint” is hilariously ironic. After 9/11, anyone who called for such things in our response was shouted down as a bleeding-heart pansy. Any attempt at inquiry into possible grievances the terrorists might have had was strawmanned as an attempt to justify the attacks. No one wanted to hear about the suffering of the Iraqi people under the U.S./U.N. sanctions regime or humiliation of the Palestinians under a colonial occupation. No one cared to hear about all the horrible shit the U.S. has done over the years, they just wanted to kick some ass. Now, all of the sudden, we’re supposed to look at the “root cause” of this senseless murder and accept that Tiller may have partially deserved it? Fuck that shit.

Comment #4: AJB  on  06/01  at  03:42 PM

For me, this comes down to treating terrorism as a crime, not an opposing political philosophy. Of course that’s much easier to do when the crime is conceived and executed in this country, but the principle is the same. Deal with a terrorist, domestic or foreign, as a murderer, and you avoid legitimizing his politics and making him a martyr.

Comment #5: Bitter Scribe  on  06/01  at  03:44 PM

Once one considers that militant Islamic fantasists and militant Xtian fantasists have roughly the same goals vis-a-vis the state, it’s not very difficult for a liberal to oppose both groups. Similarly, once one subscribes (as most liberals do) to the doctrine of rule of secular law, it’s not very difficult to put aside the usual wingnut “justice” of “eye-for-an-eye” and “destroying the Constitution to save it.”

Talking about waterboarding either Randall Terry or Bin Laden is an understandable but misguided attempt to speak to the wingnuts in their own language—they don’t see the irony because A) they believe that waterboarding is effective and Constitutional and B) because they actually think that a Christian theocracy is preferable to an Islamic one.

I DID feel bloodlust on 9/11 and I feel the same desire for vengeance in reaction to this murder.

I felt bloodlust on 9/11, too—those scumbags attacked my city, and I saw the results with my own eyes from 30 blocks away. I feel anger over this assassination, too. But unlike the wingnuts, when you or I get angry we channel that energy toward effective and productive solutions that don’t create more problems than they solve.

Comment #6: Gracchus.  on  06/01  at  03:46 PM

It must be wonderful for the anti-abortionists’ (followers not the leaders) squashed and distorted egos to have all this whoopla going on over *them*.  Empty persons who have no meaning to their lives -and know it-  joyfully take up the cause of “pro life”, which gives their lives not only meaning and purpose, but *importance*, AND what’s more, importance in the incandescent light of publicity and support of “celebrities”.  Yes, it must be fabulous to go from being a nonentity, a loser, to being a “White Knight Champion of the Unborn”.

Because it is all about *them*, not the unborn.  One of the people who started the movement, Randall Terry’s wife Cindy, used to stand outside the abortion clinic with a sign asking women to give their babies to Her.  When Terry saw the publicity his wife was getting, he horned in on the act, and HE became Mr. Big, a leader and power in political-religious areas. 

It certainly looks like the murderer of Doctor Tiller was just another loser-nobody, stupid and violent.  Now, just by the act of murdering a man (and then fleeing), he’s a Hero to millions. 

I doubt he or most of the anti abortionists’ give a Rat’s Turd about unborn babies. It’s ALL about them.

Comment #7: Kwillow  on  06/01  at  03:53 PM

because they actually think that a Christian theocracy is preferable to an Islamic one.

Preferable does not BEGIN to describe what they think.  A Christian Theocracy is RIGHT and NEEDS to happen.  An Islamic theocracy means the end of days.

Comment #8: Siobhan  on  06/01  at  04:05 PM

One was to ascertain if a person is genuinely pro-life-antiabortion is to discover their attitude towards education and contraception.  If their against it, screw them, they are lying about their ‘sanctity of life’ crapola.

Comment #9: Kwillow  on  06/01  at  04:07 PM

I felt the same on April 19 when our own freakin’ citizens attacked my city. Probably guys who had a lot in common with Dr. Tiller’s murderer.

Comment #10: Alix  on  06/01  at  04:08 PM

eh- “if *they’re* against it…etc.

Comment #11: Kwillow  on  06/01  at  04:08 PM

So committed to the cause of American imperialism that any assault on that concept brings them up as one to condemn those who pulled the trigger, those who bought the gun, and those who stood by mutely.

American imperialism isn’t even half of Bin Laden et al.‘s reasons for attacking us.

Comment #12: keshmeshi  on  06/01  at  04:40 PM

American imperialism is the beginning and the end of bin Laden et al.‘s reasons for attacking us.  That doesn’t make it right, just that it’s true.

Comment #13: Punditus Maximus  on  06/01  at  04:48 PM

American imperialism isn’t even half of Bin Laden et al.’s reasons for attacking us.
—keshmeshi

It’s still a lot closer to the mark than “because he’s evil.” We can only raise the bar of discourse by increments.

Comment #14: Keith  on  06/01  at  04:55 PM

For me, this comes down to treating terrorism as a crime, not an opposing political philosophy.

I still have a hard time understanding how a few planes crashing and 3000 people dying scared the shit out of so many people.  Scared them to the point that they were willing to sacrifice being American and being free for being “safe”. 

And I mean “safe” with scare quotes, b/c torture has given us no actionable intelligence and removing our shoes at airports has saved no one.  We’ve simply sacrificed our values of freedom and civility for a pretense of safety.

For a people who claim to be all about the rule of law, conservatives are quick to violence when they lose.  They do not seem to be able to cope with the concept that they are free to think, believe, and act as they please, but so are all their fellow citizens.  No one has to think, believe, or act as they do.

Freedom scares the shit out of them.  They want to kill us or secede or bomb us rather than live side by side each doing as we please.

Can you imagine if W had been president during the Cuban Missile Crisis?  We’d have nuked and been nuked b/c of their fear and panicked reactions.

The proper reaction to lawlessness is to arrest, prosecute, convict and punish.  No matter if it is the president or someone who claims to be a Christian.  You can’t prosecute terror.  You cannot wage a war on psychopaths who don’t rule a country. 

Trying to blame all scary things on brown people over there is what allows the white people over here to feel free to wage war on our own.  Obama’s people need to come down hard on this as domestic terrorism.  Acting like it’s just an individual act ignores the people killed at the UU church earlier this year.  Acting like it’s an individual act ignores the fact-free hate rhetoric of Beck, O’Reilly, and Fox in general.

It’s all of a thing.  It needs to be fought as a single entity.  Treating Tiller’s death as the act of a single individual simply encourages to continue.  There are always people crazy enough to die for their causes.  We need to prosecute to put those who instigate them on notice.

Obama winning did not fix the country.  It’s still in jeopardy, b/c the losers know they’ve lost and so they are willing to kill to get their way.

Comment #15: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  06/01  at  05:03 PM

if there’s a point of separation between my thought processes and those of people like Michelle Malkin or Erick Erickson, it’s difficult to identify

I’m just guessing here, but you probably don’t think it would be a good idea to waterboard Scott Roeder 183 times until he confesses to being part of a conspiracy headed by the Pope, just so you can have an excuse to invade the Vatican.

Comment #16: BABH  on  06/01  at  05:04 PM

I still have a hard time understanding how a few planes crashing and 3000 people dying scared the shit out of so many people.  Scared them to the point that they were willing to sacrifice being American and being free for being “safe”.

I actually don’t think that most Americans felt this way, considering Bush’s ridiculously low approval rating.  Bush insisted that people really did want to give up freedom in the name of pretend safety, but most of us didn’t fall for it.  No matter what Bush said, there’s just no way he could ever truly represent the wishes of the American people.

Comment #17: bananacat  on  06/01  at  05:09 PM

Somewhat O/T, but former Pandagonian Ezra Klein was just interviewed on MSNBC about the Tiller assassination by David Shuster.

Comment #18: DTG in STL  on  06/01  at  05:12 PM

I think the attack on the world trade center was a twofer for a lot of right-wing americans: they could beat up on all the non-hispanic light brown people they could find, and they could self-righteously erase decades of having wished death and destruction on the rich white liberals, prancing queers and black welfare queens of new york city.

And then we had a mainstream media willing to run 24/7 with it, and an administration with some plans for war and civil, uh, mobilization all ready to go.

The big difference between us and them is that, even as we briefly indulge in them, we know the bloody revenge fantasies are impractical, childish and wrong. They think the bloody revenge fantasies are a great idea.

Comment #19: paul  on  06/01  at  05:20 PM

First of all, wingnutters never gave a shit about the 2,000 + dead in NY on 9/11. Maybe they cared for the Pentagon ones, but he ones form NY, definitely not.Those were “elitist blue state voters” and city slickers to boot, not “real am’ricans”. What 9/11 did to them is hurt their pride and shatter their illusion that the US was invulnerable. THAT is what put then in a murderous rage for revenge.  The humiliation and scare that the attack was.

We on the other hand are not scared after Tiller died. But we got our pride hurt. We are livid that someone would are violate the law and the civility of a church service, to kill a person. And we truly care for people, brown skinned or white skinned, so we would mourn Tiller even if he was not a prominent doctor, but particularly because he was one, a doctor that has helped so many women.

But the anger and bitterness doesn’t control us. We can get pass it to demand only that the LAW is obeyed. No such maturity exists in the bitter, reality denying haters of the “pro-life” movement.

Comment #20: Renmiri  on  06/01  at  05:21 PM

I still have a hard time understanding how a few planes crashing and 3000 people dying scared the shit out of so many people.  Scared them to the point that they were willing to sacrifice being American and being free for being “safe”.

Perhaps because it was an absolutely unprecedented event in American history?  More people were killed on September 11, 2001 than on December 7, 1941 in Pearl Harbor, and that event led directly to America becoming an active participant in the bloodiest war in the history of Earth.

Don’t get me wrong, we were scared into giving the thumbs up to whole lot of highly irrational and immoral policy, but it was a situation that no American had ever experienced before in their lives - even Pearl Harbor was different in that it was an attack on a military installation - this was an attack on thousands of completely uninvolved U.S. citizens.  I can honestly say that I don’t know a single person in America who didn’t feel freaked out on some level that day.  Whether you were in New York City, Butte, MT, or Berkeley, CA, it was impossible to have not been overwhelmed by the horrific images we saw that day.  People stayed glued to their televisions for 10-20 hours that day.  And it made a lot of folks break character - I remember Dan Rather breaking down and crying on Letterman when the Late Show went back on the air a week later.

It was easily the most significant day in American history in my lifetime.  Certainly not in a good way, but in terms of its ramifications, not just for America but for the world… yeah, it definitely had a bigger impact on the world than any other singular event in my lifetime (I was born post-Roe).

All that said, it is very upsetting how much we allowed the Bush Administration to use that tragedy to achieve their own political goals.  I’m still shocked when I think about the fact that we launched an illegal war against an uninvolved nation with the approval of 2/3 of the American public in March 2003.

Comment #21: DTG in STL  on  06/01  at  05:31 PM

<blcokquote>I actually don’t think that most Americans felt this way, considering Bush’s ridiculously low approval rating.</blockquote>

Ahh, but how quickly we forget… in the immediate months following 9/11, Bush was scoring an approval rating above 90%.  And he held steadily above 50-60% until a few months into Iraq, when we realized that he had just gotten us into a never-ending clusterfuck.

Comment #22: DTG in STL  on  06/01  at  05:35 PM

Property damage aside, when is the last time a group characterized as being “left-wing extremists” perpetrated illegal acts which resulted in death or bodily harm to one of its opponents?


This raises a question I am too lazy to research myself: are there examples of people being killed (intentionally or not) by animal rights activists? Recently? Ever? (part of the reason I am too lazy to research: googling “animal rights” and “murder” does not suffice.)

And if the answer is no, then it’s interesting to note how often it happens on tv—I can think of two examples from the most recent season off the top of my head, but I feel like I’ve seen it much more than that. (And I can only think of one plotline that involved the bombing of an abortion clinic, from an old episode of Law & Order. But then again, since pretty much no one ever HAS an abortion on tv, maybe there just aren’t any clinics in the tv universe.)

That wacky Liberal Media! It’s almost like…they’re…not really…

Comment #23: hanna  on  06/01  at  05:44 PM

We on the other hand are not scared after Tiller died. But we got our pride hurt.

Speak for yourself, Renmiri.  For a lot of us, this is terrifying.  This is just one more sign that the right-wing extremist violence of the 90’s is returning, perhaps worse than before.  There’s another Timothy McVeigh out there somewhere, and we can only hope that he’s stopped in time.

Comment #24: Seraph  on  06/01  at  05:59 PM

Yeah, but that’s not something to be terrified of.  We know the government is serious about dealing with the crime, and the odds of being so fantastically unlucky as to be killed if one is an ordinary liberal citizen by the wingnut murder cells are just tiny.

It’s not like we’re African-American landowners in KKK country yet.

Comment #25: Punditus Maximus  on  06/01  at  06:04 PM

It’s funny, but I have a very nihilistic, post-apocalyptic-fall-of-civilization bent in my worldview.  And when things like this happens, I always have this…  desire, I guess… to “ride out” in a hopeless cause to serve justice upon as many of the architects of evil and hatred as possible.

But I don’t.  Because, unlike them, I actually value civilization, morality and life.

But always the thought presses when things like this happen…

Comment #26: MosesZD  on  06/01  at  06:07 PM

I’ve noticed that Google Ads is placing “Vote Pro-Life Items!” ads with a healthy white smiling baby (boy?) in front of an American Flag on the blogs I’ve been reading following the Tiller murder discussion.

Stay classy, Google Ads.

Maybe Vote Pro-Life Items should instead have a picture of a gun on it. Truth in advertising and all that.

Comment #27: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/01  at  06:07 PM

But then again, since pretty much no one ever HAS an abortion on tv, maybe there just aren’t any clinics in the tv universe.

The only abortion I can remember on a TV show was Maude’s in a two-episode story way back in 1972.  And actually the episodes were shown two months before Roe v. Wade was decided.

Comment #28: PurpleGirl  on  06/01  at  06:24 PM

I met Dr. Tiller on a couple of occasions, and was always impressed by the sober strength of his commitment to women’s reproductive health. My sympathies and condolences go out to his family and friends.

Violence perpetrated to create fear and illicit political change is by definition terrorism. The killing of Dr. Tiller was not an act against a single man, but an act of violence against the work he did, and a warning to others who perform the same work.

The difference, of course, between the left and the right is that we (so far, anyway) wake up from our fever dream of revenge and retribution. The right makes it a reality, and we - Americans, all - pay the price.

While it is always cathartic to imagine vengeance upon those who have wronged us,  it is this ability to rationally look beyond our baser instincts that set us apart from the more knee-jerk political elements. Dr. Tiller’s murderer rationalized his acts by embracing a radical religious faith. This is no different than the terrorists of 9/11. The difference, as you pointed out, is that Dr. Tiller’s assassination will not be met will calls for action, but will be excused and dismissed. I wondered today what kind of action would be demanded if, say, an unstable gay man has gunned down a fundamentalist pastor—ultimately, I didn’t like the mental conclusions my hypothesis forced me to draw.

After 9/11 Bush kept insisting that the Islamic terrorists attacked us because they ‘hated our freedoms’. This is perhaps truer for terrorism carried out against Dr. Tiller than it was on 9/11.

Comment #29: sjk  on  06/01  at  06:50 PM

Re: Television abortions. In the first season of Weeds, Nancy’s obnoxious oldest (teenage) son intentionally gets his girlfriend pregnant (pinpricks in the condoms) so she won’t go to college and move away from him. When she finds out she’s pregnant, you can tell she’s upset but she lets him talk her into “we’re in love and we’re keeping it and we’ll be together forever!” but her parents have none of it and tell him to get lost and take her to “a clinic.” They break up and she theoretically moves on with her life and he continues being an obnoxious dipshit self-centered fuckup.

Of course, seeing as how the TV show is already premised on the notion of how fucked up and depraved the suburbs are, and not just Pretty White Kids with Problems, I’m not sure if I should interpret it as “only fucked up and depraved people have abortions” or “this is how it really shakes out.”

Comment #30: Mighty Ponygirl  on  06/01  at  06:56 PM

Speak for yourself, Renmiri.  For a lot of us, this is terrifying

I misspoke. Of course I am afraid we will lose liberal voices. What I am not is intimidated. I don’t think we should give up our ideals and the right of women because of this fear.

As opposed to the wingnuts who gladly gave up all their freedoms for the fear of “scary brown people”.

Like Punditus says that’s not something to be terrified of.  We know the government is serious about dealing with the crime. Despite the risk I’ll continue to be liberal and hope the law prevails.

Comment #31: Renmiri  on  06/01  at  07:45 PM

I’m not sure if I should interpret it as “only fucked up and depraved people have abortions” or “this is how it really shakes out.”

Based on your summary, I’d say the second one.

Comment #32: Bitter Scribe  on  06/01  at  09:08 PM

Renmiri:

I wish I knew that the government was serious about dealing with the crime. We’re talking about a state where nonfatal terrorism against Tiller and his co-workers was not only tolerated but effectively encouraged by the attorney general. And an FBI and justice department riddled with wingnut moles.

You gotta think, though: if the FBI would take the informant/instigator techniques it’s been using to indict and convict mosque-attending losers of terrorist acts and turn them against the forced-childbirth crazies, they’d save a lot more lives.

Comment #33: paul  on  06/01  at  10:20 PM

I guess this thread is where this Modest Proposal by me belongs.

Darn, if I can trust the Preview, the link doesn’t take you straight to my comment, just to the thread as a whole. My timestamp clock is set to Pacific Time, except that it seems to be an hour slow, I guess because the timestamp doesn’t adjust for Daylight Savings. Anyway on my browser pages it shows as “Mark Foxwell on 06/01 at 04:12 PM” Add 4 hours to get Eastern Time, etc.

Anyway, I’ve had to spend a lot of time wondering whether my own personal response to 9/11 was sane or shallow or whatever. My immediate reaction was, “Well, now we know what Bush did for a Reichstag Fire.”

I think a better gauge for me was the Oklahoma City bombing. Even then, when as now it seemed that it wasn’t America as a whole being targeted so much as uppity progressive bleeding hearts like me (and the majority of Americans, whom we stand for, but “don’t count as Real Americans” according to our dominant culture)—I still didn’t think it was time to panic. Actually then I felt far less confident than I do now that in the end and as a whole, Americans are not ready for an outright, open dictatorship. After all we sort of had one since then, and in the end we rolled our eyes at it (and now try to laugh it off). Still I didn’t wish for a sweeping crackdown on the Right, though I felt many of them obviously deserved a comeuppance. I hoped for a measured, meticulous, due-process investigation and prosecution—and figured honest, diligent prosecutors would not need to dirty their hands with questionable tactics to dig up a really scary amount of dirt that might lead to a more sober appraisal of then-fashionable right-wing nuttery. My fear was, the powers that be would not do nearly enough within the law—indeed would be negligent of their full and basic duties in the name of not rocking the boat too much. (And that’s the danger now, too).

Later these same right-wing bozos wished GW Bush on all of us. On one hand, they did a lot of damage that we may never fully recover from—on the other, now they look like the idiots I always figured they were (well, at least since 1984 or so…before then I was a kid who hadn’t begun to live in the real world…)

Dangerous idiots, to sum up. On one hand, dealing with them is serious business—people get hurt, maimed, killed.

On the other—we are better than them, dammit, and we can afford to do things right, even if it costs.

So no, my Modest Proposal that we threaten to use the sweeping powers granted Bush Jr as leverage to force renouncing those powers is satirical—partly because I cynically doubt the authorities are going to change any of their ways much.

Comment #34: Mark Foxwell  on  06/01  at  10:55 PM

I wonder how the fall out about secret wire taps will fall out regarding this.
We already know since the suspect is white there will be no indefinite captivity on forign soil and no one will take him for a rendition.

So there go 3 of Bush’s big turds on the Constitution.

Can we now get some action on the (*&^$!!! wire tapping?

Comment #35: cynickal  on  06/02  at  02:19 PM

But the anger and bitterness doesn’t control us. We can get pass it to demand only that the LAW is obeyed.

Comment #36: Online drugs  on  06/03  at  09:35 AM
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