So what’s the story with crazy people not getting committed to a psychiatric hospitals in America?

We all know that Ted Kennedy’s most agregious behavior over the years was a direct result of his homosexuality.

So what’s the story with crazy people not getting committed to a psychiatric hospitals in America?

No health insurance.

In a way it’s kind of refreshing to have most of the mask pull off and expose the hate to daylight.

Steven “Christian?” Anderson still holds back some, claiming the people he hates should go to “trial” (wrap them in chains and throw them in the pond to see if they float?) and then be righteously murdered. 

And you know this probably just scratches the surface of who he believes should die for their “sins”:

Not a Christian?  Die.

Not a Protestant?  Die.

Mormon?  Die.  (This is what you face from The Base, Mittens)

Male doctor with female patients?  Die.

Woman with a job?  Die.

Woman with anything past a fourth-grade education?  Die.

Think women should be treated like actual human beings?  Die.

Use birth control of any kind?  Die.

Caught masturbating?  Die.

And of course, ultimately, after they’ve created their Gilead, a handmaid whose body does not accept her master’s “seed” and bear him a child?  Die…

At what point is this guy shouting “fire” in a crowded theater? He’s all but saying “hey, it’s ok to go out and murder the president. God won’t think you’re a murderer.”

I remember the last charismatic religious leader who told his followers to go out and murder someone. Doesn’t he have a swastika carved into his forehead now?

Here’s what I think should happen.  Get a few hundred cross-dressing gay male couples to invade his church before next Sunday’s services.

Don’t be disruptive, don’t break any laws… just show up and take up every seat in the church before his regular congregants arrive.  Make sure his hatemongor followers can’t take up one single seat in that church.  And then engage in the most overt acts of PDA legally allowable during the entire service.

Don’t shout him down, don’t try to directly disrupt the service… just cuddle, hold hands, make out and force him to have to witness it all.  Make him as uncomfortable as humanly possible.  Stare at him mockingly as he spews his hate.  Make him feel so uncomfortable that he believes that he’s about to burst into flames in the pulpit.

And then keep doing it, every week… until he leaves town.

“Don’t shout him down, don’t try to directly disrupt the service… just cuddle, hold hands, make out and force him to have to witness it all.  Make him as uncomfortable as humanly possible.  Stare at him mockingly as he spews his hate.  Make him feel so uncomfortable that he believes that he’s about to burst into flames in the pulpit.”

...make his Lil’ Preacher stand up and shout Hallelujah!...

And you know this probably just scratches the surface of who he believes should die for their “sins”

You forgot the dirty dirty intellectuals, MikeEss.  We’re always the first to go.

or alternatively get shot by bigots with assault rifles and have cable news saying that it was the gays that provoked the wingnuts

I’m surprised that Anderson wants 95% of Americans to die for having sex before marriage.  Or rather, he probably just wants 47.5% of Americans to die, because it’s only wrong for women to have sex.

So what’s the story with crazy people not getting committed to a psychiatric hospitals in America?

Only rich people get psychiatric care, b/c Susa is right.  Poor or middle class or unemployed or self-employed people cannot afford psychiatric care or for a family member to have psychiatric care b/c THEN YOU HAVE A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION.

You might require drugs for the rest of your life, either continually or repeatedly, should you recover from depression, but then face a crisis that brings it up again.

That diagnosis can make you uninsurable if you work in a small company.

We might end up with a Presidential assassination b/c we refuse to provide health care for all.  But don’t worry, the poor can’t possibly affect anyone else.  Only the rich can, by the ‘trickle down’ effect their self-interest causes.

Watching that last video reminds me of a conversation that I had with an ex where he tried to claim that we both had committed murder when I took the morning-after pill but that I was being hyperbolic when I said he was calling me a murder. 

Teh Stupid, it burnssssssssss.

Mike is a stronger person than I am because I wanted to strangle that guy.

I’m not actually unclear about the state of healthcare in America. It was a rhetorical question

In a sort of related note I was watching “The Brave One”. Its Jodie Foster in a revenge flick where she kills mean people because different mean people beat her up, killed her boyfriend and stole her dog. Anyhow after she wakes up from her coma they release her from hospital and I was thinking to myself, “Why haven’t they provided her with some kind of psychotherapy. She is going to be having issues. Wait, its the states, she’s lucky they didn’t grind her up for Burgers and Chips Friday”

I have to just vent for a moment here.

Given the fact that over the past 20 years or so every act of domestic terrorism that has caused a loss of life has happened due to the actions of a rightwing nutjob…

I really hope that if there is to be another such incident, that the recipient of the violent action is the rightwinger.

I don’t want anymore bloodshed.  I don’t advocate murder.  I don’t want Dr. Hern or Dr. Carhart to fear for their lives.  I don’t want the Secret Service to have to work even harder than they are already expected to.  I don’t want our liberal citizens to be afraid to speak out at political rallies for fear of violent repurcussion.

I don’t want to turn on the news and see another headline about a politically-motivated shooting ever again.

That said, if I have no choice but to accept that another shooting involving a rightwing nutjob is going to happen in the US… I would prefer that it is Pastor Steven Anderson who is the target of that shooting.

Yeah, I said it.  Sue me.

Way to go, Mike!

It seems easy enough to make a guy like this look stupid, but seriously, WTF? I thought it was a crime to threaten the life of the President. Wouldn’t this qualify? He’s essentially absolving anyone of the “sin” of killing the President or their fellow citizens. You just know there’s some dumbass jesus freak out there who’s going to act on this.

You just know there’s some dumbass jesus freak out there who’s going to act on this.

I’m sure the wheels are already in motion. Remember, there were those two dipshit white supremecists who were arresting for plotting to assassinate Obama while he was on the campaign trail.

The people have been howling for someone to assassinate the president since he was elected. You know there are people who have already taken up the cause and are currently plotting to kill Obama and maybe Biden and Pelosi while they’re at it.

Let’s put it this way: if the exhortations of these assholes was not being heard and acted on, then they would be preaching to empty churches. But they aren’t. Maybe not 100% of the church congregation is locking and loading, but there’s going to be a minority of the congregation who is going to want to Live The Word and are formulating their plans for assassinating the president.

And also, the whole “Oh, I don’t really know about the George Tiller case” is a complete lie. Tiller’s name was as readily available on the tips of the tongues of fundamentalists as Satan’s.

heh, Eric, whyever would this guy be an ex? He sounds like a real gem of a dood.

EricA. Stupid Pony.

The danger of imprecatory prayer, for those who believe it has power, is that God might then turn around and judge the petitioner by his own conduct. And since no one is perfect, anyone who engages in this form of supplication had better be prepared to die.

The Bible is pretty clear on this point:

Matthew 7:1-2 – “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”

Proverbs 24:17-18 – “Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.”

Matthew 5:43-48 – “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

 

That’s the problem for guys like Anderson: they always fail to recognize when they’re playing the part of Haman the Agagite – i.e., the wicked counselor in the Book of Esther who was eventually strung up on the gallows he himself had ordered to be built for the unjust punishment of another man. 

Because Mordecai refused to pay honor to Haman, the vizier wanted Mordecai dead for that assault to his pride:

Esther 5:13-14 “Yet all this availeth me nothing, so long as I see Mordecai the Jew sitting at the king’s gate. Then said Zeresh his wife and all his friends unto him, Let a gallows be made of fifty cubits high, and to morrow speak thou unto the king that Mordecai may be hanged thereon: then go thou in merrily with the king unto the banquet. And the thing pleased Haman; and he caused the gallows to be made.”

In the end, however, “…they hanged Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai.”

Jesus Christ. Anderson should have lived in the Middle Ages.

DA, Don’t forget the second chapter of Romans!

You have no defence, then, whoever you may be, when you sit in judgement —for in judging others you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, are equally guilty. We all know that God’s judgement on those who commit such crimes is just; and do you imagine—you that pass judgement on those who commit such crimes is just; and do you imagine—you that pass judgement on the guilty while committing the same crimes yourself—do you imagine that you, any more than they, will escape the judgement of God? Or do you despise his wealth of kindness and tolerance and patiece, failing to see that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

And the difference between this guy and the crazy, whacked homeless guy on the corner threatening people with a steak knife?

A suit and a church.

They both need to be institutionalized.

“I’d say that Anderson’s views would have been considered excessive in any human civilization in any era.”

Except that history has many examples that prove your faith in human civilization is sometimes misplaced.

We can only pray that this is not one of those times…

I would think that this lunatic claiming to be an expert on the bible would make real biblical scholars lose their shit.

Hey, give him credit. At least he didn’t run out of the studio screaming when he found he was being interviewed by a gay man (or attack him). I mean, really, how open-minded can you get?

As a mentally disabled person I find all this talk about Anderson being “crazy” somewhat disturbing.

I don’t think he’s crazy, I think Anderson has very fringe religious beliefs and he follows his beliefs to their logical conclusions that they lay out for him.

“I don’t think he’s crazy, I think Anderson has very fringe religious beliefs and he follows his beliefs to their logical conclusions that they lay out for him.”

...and being unable to recognize the immorality and inhumanity of what those “logical conclusions” turn out to be?  In layman’s terms: Crazy…

At least he didn’t run out of the studio screaming when he found he was being interviewed by a gay man (or attack him).

No, he just wished death on him and hung up the phone.

Running out of the studio wasn’t an option, because he wasn’t in the studio… it was a call-in interview.

But I know you were being snarky.

So what’s the story with crazy people not getting committed to a psychiatric hospitals in America?
No health insurance.

Our abysmal health care system has little to do with it.  Since the early ‘60s (and you can thank JFK for this, NOT Reagan), psychiatric institutions have a higher bar to reach in order to involuntarily commit a person for treatment.  Anderson likely does not meet this criteria as he’s not an immediate threat to himself or anyone else.

I’ll admit that we don’t have enough access to treatment for those who want it, but if Anderson doesn’t want to be institutionalized, nothing can be done.

I feel very, very, very tired when I realize that Anderson and his ilk walk around because of this notional conversation:

“He’s an obsessive lunatic who thinks everyone who doesn’t fit his idea of morality should die or be killed.”
“Yeesh!  Let’s have him committed!”
“We can’t.  He counts as sane because he believes in an invisible friend who tells him these things.”

Quick replies to a bunch of things in this thread:

@DTG #14:  By a country mile, the most like right winger to be killed by his fellows is Arlen Specter.  Charlie Crist might move to the top if he’s ever outed, but the thing that turns members of a cult against each other is betrayal.

@Pony #18:  We forgive typos.  Most keyboards aren’t designed for hooves.

@DA #19:  Funny how I was taken to church for years, and never once heard that story while I was there.  It’s almost like it doesn’t fit the narrative modern religion wants to craft.

@keshmeshi #31:  I’m perfectly fine with a high bar being set for involuntary commitment.  I certainly wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my life drugged into zombitude for having Bush Derangement Syndrome or whatever the current wingnut name is for not being a bootlicking asshole.

Here is the recent footage of Anderson being whomped by Border Patrol guards for refusing to leave his car after dogs allegedly scented something in the trunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJF5cUWXA_A

As for the guards’ reaction, considering that Anderson was stonewalling them in a would-be debate on constitutional law, I don’t see them tazing him as wrong. However, if the camera footage of them beating him (four on one) with nightsticks is accurate, provided that Anderson didn’t produce a gun, that’s way over the line.

Even so, for the record, the underlying piano score used while Anderson is being stomped makes watching the footage unintentionally funny.

@Pony #18:  We forgive typos.  Most keyboards aren’t designed for hooves.

Speak for yourself.  I went scrolling up to see what idiocy EricJG had spouted now, and just how badly Ponygirl had eviscerated him.  Only to find it was a false alarm.

BAD Ponygirl.  BAD.  No chocolate!

Here is the recent footage of Anderson being whomped by Border Patrol guards for refusing to leave his car after dogs allegedly scented something in the trunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJF5cUWXA_A

I absolutely hate tazers and the disgustingly abusive overuse of those devices that has taken place this decade by law enforcement authorities…

That said, that video brought an evil smile to my face.  Karma is a real motherfucker sometimes.

I’d love to taze that fucker.  Repeatedly.

As a mentally disabled person I find all this talk about Anderson being “crazy” somewhat disturbing. I don’t think he’s crazy, I think Anderson has very fringe religious beliefs and he follows his beliefs to their logical conclusions that they lay out for him.

The term “crazy” shouldn’t be applied to people who recognize their mental Illnesses; they’re not crazy. In fact, such people are acting in a highly civilized and logical manner when they seek treatment.

I don’t know if Anderson has a diagnosable mental illness. I suspect not. His disordered thinking isn’t the result of a chemical imbalance or a fault in the structure of his brain; it’s the result of his being an incompetent narcissist that doesn’t apply one iota of critical thinking to any of the bile he coughs up. He believes his own words merely because he spoke them.

He’s crazy. Nuts. Mad as a fucking hatter addicted to the mercury in his felt. And he’s all these things by choice.

<quote>heh, Eric, whyever would this guy be an ex? He sounds like a real gem of a dood. </quote>

Sadly, it took until he said “all Arabs are sick killers who deserve to die” before I really wised up.  As if that isn’t a screwed up enough thing to say, I’m ethnically Lebanese.  I’m at least half convinced that he said it because he knew I could never forgive that.

My youthful indiscretion was a hypocritical Catholic Republican.  I should really stitch that on a pillow someday.

I tried to explain this interview to someone and got all twisted up because I was attempting to repeat the crazy from Anderson.  It is so circular and nonsensical that I don’t think I could ever retain the bizarre assertions without just reading from a transcript.

Sigh, that will teach me to Blaspheme without Previewing first.  Typos all around!

“...and being unable to recognize the immorality and inhumanity of what those “logical conclusions” turn out to be?  In layman’s terms: Crazy… “

One person’s immorality and inhumanity may be another’s moral duty. I believe Anderson may deluded and therefore believes what he believes because of his delusion, or he may be lying about the where he finds the authority, his god, to back up his beliefs or opinions because he understands that American society will permit you and forgive you for a lot if one professes to have certain religious beliefs.

But I think that to dehumanize persons who act ways or believe in things outside what is tolerated by various major factions in society by labeling them crazy, when they may be in fact sincere, lazy and dangerous.

I mean it’s easy to just right off Anderson, or the “winguts” as crazy and then no longer have to see them fully human so that one can more easily judge, ridicule, reduce, and ignore them, but if the fact of the matter is that they are serious, then those of us who oppose them should take them seriously.

It’s easy to dismiss the threat posed by groups of “crazy” people who want to ruin your groups lives or kill you for there “crazy” reasons. “Crazy” people don’t come up with long term plans and build social infrastructures to aid them in achieving their goals, and spend time and effort convincing people about the rightness of their positions by basing them in certain emotional and moral frames from which their logic can exist. “Crazy” people also don’t delude and exploit the less advantaged of particular classes and groups to recruit them so that they can be used as pawns against the groups they approve less of.

Serious people;however, do these things.

Dammit. “write off”

Speak for yourself.  I went scrolling up to see what idiocy EricJG had spouted now, and just how badly Ponygirl had eviscerated him.  Only to find it was a false alarm.

BAD Ponygirl.  BAD.  No chocolate!

*blink*

Um, I’m sorry to disappoint? Can I make up a bullshit excuse, like my Gladitorial License has expired and I haven’t yet had time to renew it, or maybe that I was getting rainbows and stars with glitter tattooed onto my ass?

Does anyone else find RT a little concern-troll-y?

Speaking as someone who *is* neural-atypical, and who has many friends with what might be termed “issues” requiring medication and/or ongoing therapy, I don’t think a single on of us would term ourselves “mentally disabled” (RT @ 28). That would be a completely different problem.

I’m sure as shit not disabled, nor would anyone term me such, but you can look me up in the DSM IV.

Retardation is a separate, serious issue and those dealing with it should be treated with all the respect in the world, not belittled, and not prevented from living their lives to the fullest, whatever that may mean.

Also, the part about “crazy” people not being organized? Utterly untrue bullshit. I think we can all agree that serial killers are NOT RIGHT but very few of them are “disorganized” in any meaningful sense.

Frequently, to follow up on my example, they will come up with long-term plans, and build social infrastructures (like maintaining a marriage or friends) to help them kill longer undetected. When caught, they try to convince others they should be freed to “continue their work” and absolutely have been known to recruit helpers.

RT, you are full of shit and know not of which you speak. Crazy (even dangerous crazy) isn’t a failure to function. Otherwise they’d be easy to find.

I’m autistic WreckerOfPlans. It’s my normal but as far the rest of society cares I’m mentally disabled. I use the term because it facilitates communication with what I think is a group comprised of normal people as the term is their label and they’ll more likely understand me when I use it.

Ever see the fights that erupt when an underprivileged group or person uses a label that they came up with in the presence of the privileged who think that only they are the ones who get to pick the labels and get to pick who they assign them to? I’ve decided to avoid the fight and the anxiety attacks I would get as the result of it.

Now what I’m talking about is the liberal’s and the left’s propensity to call those of the right, especially the fringe right, “crazy,” and they generally don’t mean some sort of disorder one could look up, but a cartoon-ish, belittling form of “crazy.” That is unless they want to get mean and start performing armchair diagnoses. It’s a form of ableism and it grates on me and there are times I will just simply no longer put up with it.

Thanks for sharing what’s going on with you… I’m sorry you’re treated so poorly and told by others that you’re mentally disabled.

That said, a critical part of determining “sanity” relates to the ability of the person in question to deal with reality. This doesn’t mean that a blind person whose reality is lacking visual cues is crazy, any more than a person on the autistic spectrum is crazy because they lack the ability to see body language. But some of the right wing whack-a-loons *DO* have a failure to engage with reality as it actually is.

The leaders in particular are either lying or crazed. I’ll grant that some of them are lying. This guys inability to phrase himself in such a way as to make lawsuits impossible to win makes me lean towards crazy. The lying ones do more dog whistles and tap dancing.

Finally, particularly since the people here are advocating for appropriate *care* for those with mental issues, I don’t think the hostility your fearing (and have experienced) is what’s going on here.

Now what I’m talking about is the liberal’s and the left’s propensity to call those of the right, especially the fringe right, “crazy,” and they generally don’t mean some sort of disorder one could look up, but a cartoon-ish, belittling form of “crazy.” That is unless they want to get mean and start performing armchair diagnoses. It’s a form of ableism and it grates on me and there are times I will just simply no longer put up with it.

You lost me here. Are you arguing that people with mental illnesses are the only ones who should be called “crazy” - that the label is rightly useful as anything other than a pejorative?

“Crazy” isn’t a diagnostic term. It’s not a proper description for the manifestations of any mental illness or disability. It’s a straight-up insult that implies a person has divorced himself from reality to such an extent that he no longer acts in a reasonable manner.

A guy who brings an assault rifle to a political rally? Crazy! A preacher that believes it’s not murder to kill homosexuals? Fucking crazy.

Speaking as a crazy person who does speak to God(s), Anderson and others like him are absolutely not crazy.  They are evil.  Calling them crazy is too often an attempt to distance them from the rest of society and to deny that any of ‘us’ could be like that.