oh my!

“but it’s really nice knowing that your Senator is unlikely to compare members of minority groups to people who fuck animals on the Senate floor.”

you’d think they’d keep that sort of thing in the cloak room.

Everyone gets along, and it’s very heartening.

Have New Yorkers had lobotomies in the last ten years?

The Film Forum is a nice place to see movies, especially the classics they screen on a regular basis (I once spotted Dan Akroyd at their Hitchcock festival), but they don’t serve meals/drinks like I assume the Alamo Drafthouse does.  The Angelika is… okay.  They at least have a cafe you can hang out in while waiting for your movie to start.

Glad you’re enjoying Brooklyn.  You will like it many times more once the weather gets nice.  As you note, it’s a walking city and it’s just a whole lot nicer walking around when you’re not cold and unfettered by multiple layers of clothing. 

A couple of things that are worth doing either on your own or with out of town visitors—walking tours by “Big Onion” tours.  (Yes, NYC was evidently once known as the Big Onion—go figure.)  The tour of the Lower East Side is laden with lore of left wing and labor history in the City.  If you really want to get your left wing thing on you can also go to the Tenement Museum, which is actually very interesing.

The walking tour of the Brooklyn Bridge and Brooklyn Heights is also great on a beautiful spring day.  And you’ll almost be home when it’s done.

The tours are led by people who are often grad students with a great deal of knowledge about the history of the area and the movements it spawned.

If you like Indian food, there are very good cheap eats at 6th Street and 2nd Avenue.  Really great dining value.

At one time the record shopping was best in the Village around Bleeker Street, but it’s been a long time since I searched for vinyl.

One thing I am always envious of when I visit New York is the anytime food-service. If I want to eat chaat at 4 am, then I can. If I wanted to eat a fancy steak, I probably could too (though I don’t eat meat). That’s not really true in any other city in NY.

My major beef with NYC is just the sheer expense for rent.  I don’t really think New York has to be more expensive in terms of food, entertainment, etc., because there is a lot of cool, free shit going on, and the competition is so fierce that most restaurants are awesome and not too expensive.  But unless you’re like my SO’s 78 YO grandmother, you’re going to be paying way way too much money for a tiny, cramped apartment. Or living with a pedophile. Or living without any heat. Etc. there are parts of Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx that aren’t too pricy, but most of them aren’t well-connected.

The cold is also nothing to sneeze at.  And the dark.  When it’s cold outside and you’re traveling underground to and from work, you could go months without seeing the sun and feel like some kind of subterranean groundhog.  I hated that.  Oh, and roaches. I mean, I lived in Texas at one point, so I figure they’re about equal in cockroach prevalence, but since I’ve moved to the West coast, I can’t imagine ever going back to a place where roaches pop out of your cupboard or scurry across your floor all the time. 

The one thing you didn’t mention, but that I always notice, is that people in both cities are very no-nonsense, but most Austinites seemed (to me at least) to be very relaxed and just…I don’t know, they seem like they are always having fun and not too worried about stuff. There are New Yorkers like that, but a lot more people seem very driven and on-the-go. The idea of just idling away a day with a beer at a lake doesn’t really seem very New York to me.

New Yawk could teach Boston a thing or two about “forming a line” and “transit system working well”.

Sir Charles, I tried to find the tenement museum my last time there (it was near my friend’s apartment), but I couldn’t. Is it hidden away, or only open on certain days?

BTW, have you seen the Tim Burton show at MoMA yet?  I went on that nice Sunday a couple of weeks ago and it rocked!

Glad to hear that you’re acclimating to Brooklyn and the City and like it here.  Remember that there are five boroughs to explore and each one has its own points of interest. Also, in the harbor, go see Governor’s Island (http://www.govisland.com)  It will reopen in June and the ferry that goes there is free.  If you haven’t done it yet, a round trip on the Staten Island Ferry (very nice in the spring and summer).

Okay, simply cannot pass up an opportunity like this.

Shameless Blog Promotion!

Below the Surface: Landmarks and Hidden Treasures of NYC

Welcome to Brooklyn! Sounds like you’re not far from my neighborhood (Cobble Hill). The Cobble Hill Theaters on Court St. shows both mainstream and semi-art-house films and even though it’s a multiplex, is independent and has a very neighborhood-y atmosphere. The Brooklyn Heights Cinema is more art-house-y and while much further, has the benefit of being very close to the Promenade and Brooklyn Bridge, which makes it easy to work in a nice stroll during good weather. And don’t forget BAM and exploring Ft. Greene. Closer to home, the Pavilion, right by Prospect Park, isn’t a bad place for more mainstream stuff.

In Manhattan and an easy ride on the A/C is 92YTribeca which has a really eclectic film program and a wonderful cafe. It might be the only place in the city that would screen both “Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill” and “Gosford Park.”

t-ster:  The museum is open every day but they have set times for the tours.  Their web site is

http://tenement.org

You actually go to 108 Orchard Street for the tickets and other things and the tenement tours are at 97 Orchard Street.  As I remember it, their signs aren’t very large or loud.

If you haven’t been yet, you should try the Bell House for shows. Trends toward indy rock though they have a good dose of other stuff, including a monthly music trivia night (the first Monday, if I remember right.)

And as for cocktails, just dive in. Hit up Death & Co. or Please Don’t Tell and have whatever they’re making. You’ll soon know more than most, as long as you don’t forget it all by overstudying.

Prospect Park is great—I grew up next to it—but something you have to do in the spring is go to Central Park on the weekend, because they close the roads off to cars, and you can walk, skate, jog, rollerblade or bike the entire loop of the park from midtown to Harlem and back down again.

Seraph, is that your blog?  I have a book of that stuff, too ... something like “Forgotten New York”.

t-ster,

The Tenement Museum is a great thing for putting one’s housing complaints into perspective.

It’s also wonderfully illustrative of our past—and hopefully not future—libertarian utopia.  Regulation—we don’t need no stinking regulation. Or wage and hour laws.  Or workers safety provisions, etc.

Amanda,

I have a cocktail don’t!  Avoid the bar at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel at Columbus Circle.  Popped in for a quick happy hour drink late one afternoon.  I emerged $40 poorer for my two drinks.  Not a big value place.

I’ve been reassured by many New Yorkers that this is the worst winter in a long time, so I suppose that a trial by fire—-snow, in this case—-is a good way to assure ourselves that we can make it.

That’s what happened to my wife and I when we moved to Oregon last year. Snowed 18 inches and everyone swore this was a once a decade blizzard, a freak occurrence, not the usual winter weather. To which I am glad to say, they are right. this winter has been much milder, if wetter.

Major nostalgia rush from this article. Thanks.

The library is the best thing that’s ever happened to me, I think.

Make sure to visit the specialty research libraries in Manhattan. The business and technology library (SIBL) on Madison Ave at 34th in Manhattan is very good (and it’s right near the Morgan Library Museum which has consistently awesome exhibits). The performing arts library at Lincoln Centre is also great. NYC loves readers.

When there are a lot of people out and about, walking around, it makes you feel a lot more connected to your larger community

One of the major reasons that conservatives loathe NYC. It’s also one of the reasons for the higher-than-normal proportion of people who are in decent physical shape.

I’m looking forward to spring, when I think the radius of “places we walk to” will expand rapidly.

One of the odd things I found living there was the fact that this radius has a psychological limit, if not a physical one. Even though I could, I rarely walked past 34th St or below Canal, and rarely walked west of 9th Ave or east of 2nd Ave. Maybe that’s a Manhattan thing, but neighbourhood focus in big in the whole city.

I still am amazed at how people will hold their ground on a sidewalk, especially since I live in stroller derby Brooklyn, and often feel like perhaps the ginormous strollers should cede the right of way.  I now get what people complain about.

Years later, people still comment on how I walk—brisk, focused, and yeah, not giving ground. Standing aside or, worse, standing in the middle of the sidewalk is for tourists.

In New York, you can wear whatever the hell you want at all times, and a lot of people take advantage by looking good and dressing up.

Good point. I don’t do that nearly as much as I did in the city. Most of the time it was dot-com casual for me, favouring minimalist black, but some days I’d put on a natty suit and tie or, in the winter, wear a fedora with my overcoat.

And the only place in North America where I’ve seen women dress with more sophistication is Montreal.

Both places are places where people feel pretty comfortable skipping small talk rapidly and talking about what the fuck ever, so that was an easy transition.

I’m an introvert, and NYC is the only city I’ve lived in where I’ve felt comfortable striking up conversations with strangers in elevators, diners and the like. It’s partly the low conversational stakes that come along with the anonymity of the crowd, and partly the increased frequency of talking to someone who might be a world-class expert in the topic of conversation.

You’re expected to keep up and not get in the way, but I appreciate those values

“Brusque” is the more accurate descriptor of New Yorkers than the lazy and trite “rude.” Brusque gets the job done. I have no doubt that Pulp Fiction‘s Winston Wolf was a New Yorker.

That’s not to say it isn’t a friendly city to outsiders. Residents are proud of the old town, and if time isn’t a factor we’re more prone to give directions, suggest places to visit, and point out interesting aspects of the city than residents of other big cities.

I expect to learn more about this in the future; I keep hearing about how New York really comes out of hibernation in the spring.

April through September is a wonderful time. The highlight of every year was attending the NY Phil’s Concerts in the Park in the summer, which is like a ginormous town picnic. And yes, take advantage of the farmer’s markets—besides the food it’s a great place to walk with a companion and people-watch.

And where on earth you can see a movie that doesn’t suck like most movie theaters do.

Not sure about Brooklyn, but in Manhattan you’ll want the Angelika theatre on Houston, Film Forum (also on Houston), Walter Reade in Lincoln Centre, City Cinemas near Sutton Place, and the MOMA theatre.

And whether or not you’re supposed to make friends with your neighbors, since people seem kind of mixed on that front.

The key is stability. I usually made friends with the older, long-time residents of my buildings, and people with kids. No matter how hard you try, though, you’ll get the kooks and leeches, too—but even they redeem themselves later on as “NYC characters I’ve met and known.”

A couple of things that are worth doing either on your own or with out of town visitors—walking tours by “Big Onion” tours.

I’ll second this—the Big Onion Tours are a great way to learn about the history of the city, and the guides are extremely knowledgeable.

I have a cocktail don’t!  Avoid the bar at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel at Columbus Circle.

If the Righa Royale Hotel is still around, I’d avoid that bar, too. Unless you like watching foreign businessmen try to pick up very high-end hookers with very expensive watered-down drinks.

something you have to do in the spring is go to Central Park on the weekend, because they close the roads off to cars, and you can walk, skate, jog, rollerblade or bike the entire loop of the park from midtown to Harlem and back down again.

The loop from 74th St down to 59th is a great short run—lots of buskers (like the Crowtations) along the way.

Bigger blizzard a couple of years back. But not compared to the monster in January 96: parked cars were completely invisible under it, just mounds of snow.

Even the 1996 one had its charms—people cross-country skiing down a deserted Broadway on the UWS is an image I’ll never forget.

Re: Cell phone service

Try calling AT&T;.  My parents had trouble getting a signal in their house, and AT&T;sent them a NanoCell for free.  You connect it to your high-speed Internet, and it acts like a miniature (in size and power) cell tower.

Ms. Kate @ 14 -

Seraph, is that your blog?

Yep.  I’ve resisted the temptation to post about it everywhere, but since the subject came up… 

I have a book of that stuff, too ... something like “Forgotten New York”.

Forgotten New York is a website, too - see here.  In fact, it was a website before it was a book - one of high enough quality that it got the webmaster a book deal (I can only hope…).  It was one of my inspirations for “Below the Surface”.  But where Kevin Walsh is more of a historian, I think of myself as a guide for the outsider and the newcomer, finding places to go, places to eat, things to do and see that don’t show up on “Law & Order” or “CSI:NY” when they need a bit of local flavor.

Comment #1: I got that same reading myself.

Better, if more complex, construction: “your Senator is unlikely to, on the Senate floor, compare members of minority groups to people who fuck animals.”
Because the mental image we got is a little scary, if amusing.

Prospect Park will be a revelation. Well and truly. How I miss watching the cricket games there.

Also check out Open House New York for free tours of some of the city’s most interesting (and not always open to the public) spots.

And now that there’s hope for spring on the horizon, I can say we did.

Ahhhh, not so fast! 

Please be aware that you will not be packing your coat away until mid-April, at the very soonest. 

Assuming spring would arrive as of March is a mistake I made my first year living in the Northeast, and I’ve seen all my gulf/south transplant friends make the same one. 

Though it is supposed to get up around 50 this weekend, which is a start.

Also, New York had something like the Alamo Drafthouse when I moved here about a decade ago, but at some point the dinner at the movies fad ended and it shut down.  I believe that space is now the Tribeca Film Center. 

It’s one of the things about NY that is slightly inferior to small cities, in my opinion.  Competition is cutthroat and tastes change very quickly.  Back home in New Orleans, most of the shops, restaurants, entertainment venues, etc. that I knew as a teenager are still around over a decade later - and that’s despite an epochal natural disaster that drove away a huge chunk of the local population.  I still go back to the bars I snuck into at 15, which were the same bars my parents hung out in as 20-somethings.  Whereas in New York, most of my favorite places from college (2000-2005) are gone already.

Please be aware that you will not be packing your coat away until mid-April, at the very soonest.

But you’ll probably need a much lighter one.

That’s one of the frustrating things about living here.  At least a few times each Fall and Spring, you will misjudge how warm it will be (based on such silly things as how warm it’s been all month to this point) and either freeze or bake.

Sorry for the triple post…

Where the good record shopping is—-I’ve been too busy to really explore that, and I’m still having fun exploring the Brooklyn Flea Market.

Try Sound Fix Records in Williamsburg.  Though I’m sure there are plenty more connoiseur-ish places for vinyl around the city, that’s one of the few music stores that has actually tempted me to buy a turntable.  Also, they do great in-store events and are generally a cool place to know about.  Though their old space was better, in my opinion, and they used to also have a bar/cafe/music venue which was one of my favorite places to hang out in the whole city.  But they’re still good in their current incarnation.

The growing seasons, for when good produce starts to really come back to the farmer’s market. 

Most of the CSA’s start up around May or June - towards June if it’s produce that is truly local and sustainably farmed.  The most interesting early season things to look out for, in my opinion, are garlic scapes and fresh peas.  The predominant thing early in the season at the greenmarkets will be greens and lettuces, if my memory of my CSA a couple years ago is anything to go on.  Don’t expect high summer vegetables like tomatoes until August.  Fresh sweet corn is HUGE in midsummer, both at the greenmarkets and in general.

And where on earth you can see a movie that doesn’t suck like most movie theaters do.

Not entirely sure what “doesn’t suck” means, but here are some ideas:

a) The Angelica, though in my opinion it’s kind of crappy since you can sometimes hear subways rumbling during the movie.  They tend to have a monopoly on the new indie/arty/foreign releases, though, sometimes for weeks on end.

b) The Sunshine.  Awesome hands down.

c) BAM.  Also awesome hands down, and in Brooklyn.

d) every once in a while, go see something at one of the old school theaters in midtown like the Paris or the Ziegfield.  The Paris skews foreign and Oscar Contender.  The Ziegfield skews big budget blockbuster.  Even better - see something at one of those on opening night.

You have to stand by my living room windows to make a fucking phone call with AT&T;. They really need to fix that.

This is an issue in Seattle too. I miss T-Mobile. Damn the siren call of the iPhone! :(

But you’ll probably need a much lighter one.

I don’t find that to be true, unless you’re talking about the gigantic puffer monstrosities which are only useful about 6 weeks out of the year. 

Though you might need fewer layers - it’s been a joy to not have to wear turtleneck sweaters and thermals every day this past week or so.

It’s an old saying and very often quoted anymore (not counting myself):

Winter doesn’t end in New York until it snows on Easter, in April.

In April 1970 there were several inches of snow on Easter.  The toy store where I worked closed early that day; in f hours we had 1 customer who was a weekly regular buying cigarettes.

I meant:  “not very often quoted anymore”

The idea of just idling away a day with a beer at a lake doesn’t really seem very New York to me.

I refuse to give this up, on principle.

Re idling away the day with a beer at a lake - head out to Caumsett state park in Long Island or Harriman state park in, ummmmm, Rockland county (???). 

Both are theoretically bikeable if you’re hardcore, but not easily accessible by public transit. 

For getting out of the city without a car or calves of steel, the various beaches in the outer reaches of Queens are pretty fabulous.  Also, either Fort Tryon Park (where The Cloisters is) or Inwood Park up in upper Manhattan.  And City Island, if you enjoy carrying your bike up the stairs on the Triboro bridge.

How to wear shoes when you’re not wearing boots every single day.

I never did get the shoes thing down-pat when I lived there. Partly because I was always too broke to experiment in any meaningful way, but also partly because no New Yorker was ever able to explain it to me. I would ask, and they’d say…well, you just…uh…become fabulous through magic?

Also, the idea of such things “not seeming very New York” - there are some qualifications for that.

#1 - Some people really do have a hard time just kicking back.  You’ll notice that there are a lot of free time oriented things to do around here which are centered around rigidly “uplifting” activities like fitness or cultural appreciation.  This is great in some ways, for instance museums and public art installations located in the hinterlands, and organized bike club rides.  But very few people are able to openly admit that they enjoy leisure for leisure’s sake.

#2 - It’s somewhat seasonal.  In the winter, New York really can seem like a place where everyone has their nose to the grindstone and has trouble giving themselves the space to just relax and enjoy themselves.  Then the weather warms up, the sundresses and bikes come out, and the free concerts and weekends of picnicking start up.  It’s almost two different cities.

Some assistance for you on the cocktail front:

http://www.webtender.com/handbook/guide/drink-guide.html (good for your Kindle…)
http://www.webtender.com (the main page)
http://cocktails.about.com/

If you like it old school:

http://www.lupec.org/
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/13487
http://www.artofdrink.com/jerry-thomas/

Manhattan Transplant, seconded on the Bell House. Not only has Amanda taken in a show at this awesome venue, she helped us sell merch there during theBig Band Bonanza.

I really appreciate all the comments about NYC. I’m making my first trip there at the end of April, and it’s always good hear from locals on what to do and where to go.

For walking, may I suggest the greenway all along the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn and leading up into Queens?

I refuse to give this up, on principle.

I don’t blame you. But if you take Opopo’s good advice, especially about Fort Tryon Park or any other public space in the 5 boroughs, remember to keep the can or bottle in a paper bag. You can get dinged $20 for public drinking of fine alcoholic beverages, but the cops will usually look the other way if you accept the NYC bag compromise.

I really appreciate all the comments about NYC. I’m making my first trip there at the end of April, and it’s always good hear from locals on what to do and where to go.

Do you have any particular interests beyond the first-time visitor’s “must-sees”? I’m sure Pandagon’s NYC locals, past and present, will be happy to point you in the right direction.

Also, I second Opoonax @ 30.  Try a light sweat jacket/hoodie and waterproof cloth coat or windbreaker combination, either of which can get stuffed into a bag or backpack when not needed and pulled back out when it is.

Oh hell, I’m glad you’re liking it.  It’s true: once the thaw sets in, it gets way more fun.  In the summer you can see a movie in a park any night of the week, Governor’s Island opens up, free kayaking in the East River (check the Long Island City Boathouse—at least I think that’s what it’s called), Bastille Day on Smith Street in Carroll Gardens, bike kills, crazy weirdo outdoor art stuff, etc. etc., etc.  I’ve never been, but I’m planning on checking out the Easter Parade this year (if the pictures in the Times style section mean anything, you’ll probably go nuts for the costumery.)  Also, Barbes on almost any night is a pretty good bet.

You should really consider getting a bike (and helmet!).  It’d make the city way, way smaller.  Especially because of the way that the train lines make Brooklyn seem like two separate boroughs.

Oh yeah: good point about people not being rude here.  It’s actually sort of a myth we like to perpetuate when we’re away but don’t really act on when we’re here (at least that’s one part of my larger theory on the subject).  Especially where directions are concerned.  Any decent New Yorker will go practically apoplectic trying to demonstrate their deep, thorough knowledge of how this place works if you just ask.  Speaking of which, the Transit Museum (Downtown Brooklyn, corner of Schermerhorn and—oh, crap, I forget) is really, really interesting.

There’s a bunch of other stuff I’d pass on, but I can’t think of anything right now.  Anyways, welcome aboard!

Not all of New York is transient. Someone mentioned the “92YTribeca”. The 92nd Street Y is still there. That’s where my grandfather learned to speak English maybe 100 something years ago. He probably got to live in the Tenement Museum before it was a museum, but he moved out, with all the others who were making it, to that new, up and coming middle class neighborhood, the South Bronx.

Re: beer at the lake type stuff—canoeing on the river in Smithtown.  You need a car to get out there, but it’s a good time. 

http://www.canoerentals.com/infopage.htm

But unless you’re like my SO’s 78 YO grandmother, you’re going to be paying way way too much money for a tiny, cramped apartment.

I wanted to talk about this, figured someone else would have addressed it by now, but nobody has.

A couple of reasons this is kind of B.S. 

#1.  Honestly, space is overrated.  I would way rather have my current living situation (sharing 700sf with a roommate) and get to live in the best city on the continent than live in Omaha and have 2000+sf to myself.  Woo, a bigger bathroom… 

#2.  I’ve priced out staying on in New York and paying this exhorbitant rent vs. leaving for cheaper more spacious pastures.  It all sounds great until you remember that you’ll need a car.  Adding car payments, gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. makes the basic cost of living about equal between podunk-middle-of-nowhere and, again, The Best City On The Continent.  And when I say podunk middle of nowhere, I mean podunk middle of nowhere.  Living in a small regional center would actually cost more than it costs to live in New York.

The numbers sound outrageous if you’re not used to it, sure. And, yeah, I’m moving this summer and have already had my share of Craigslist sticker shock.  But, ultimately, it’s really not unreasonable.

Oh, and be prepared for many of the longtime residents to tell you how great things were before you arrived. All the performance venues that are long gone, all the good bars that closed, all the little stores that got run over by the chains that then folded anyway.

And for walking: always fun to see how much of each boro you can traverse at water’s edge.

I’ve priced out staying on in New York and paying this exhorbitant rent vs. leaving for cheaper more spacious pastures.  It all sounds great until you remember that you’ll need a car.  Adding car payments, gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. makes the basic cost of living about equal between podunk-middle-of-nowhere and, again, The Best City On The Continent.

If only there were some OTHER kind of place in the world, that was neither Podunk nor Sainted Manhattan. Like a city, but one called….“Chicago,” or “Washington, D.C.,” or something equally unfathomable.

Well, what?  - that’s what I meant in when I said: 

“And when I say podunk middle of nowhere, I mean podunk middle of nowhere.  Living in a small regional center would actually cost more than it costs to live in New York. “

I’ve looked at both D.C. and Chicago, and, if you want to live in a part of the city where you can really rely on public transit, the housing costs are in line with New York.  Similar for San Francisco, Boston, and any other city where one could feasibly live car-free without a serious commitment to one’s bicycle.

Sorry Opo, but I live in transit-reliable Chicago sans car, sans bike, and that just ain’t true. Or are you telling me you can, in fact, have a one-bedroom (with a real bedroom, not a closet) all to yourself for $700 a month in Manhattan or Brooklyn?

(Perhaps it is true—I haven’t tried to rent in NYC for about 6 years now, maybe their rental market adjusted downwards? I paid $1700 a month in NYC for the same space I get in Chicago at a fraction of the cost. Plus, studios here are actually liveable.)

Wait, you live in a centrally located area of Chicago where you can conveniently ALWAYS depend on extremely reliable public transit for absolutely every need you have, and you have a large one bedroom apartment for only $700 a month?  And you haven’t been living there for 20 years or rent it from your uncle or something?

Because my attempts to price out what it would cost to live in a non-NYC car-free urban area a la Chicago or San Francisco did NOT turn up prices like that.

I don’t think you can even get a decent one bedroom apartment in my podunk ass Louisiana hometown for that kind of money these days.

I have described for you my neighborfriend (I do the studio thing, myself, and frankly I feel I got a little bit ripped off), but he’s only been here 5 years, scout’s honor. You do have to do some digging, but yes, the housing stock is here.

On my corner: 3 bus lines. El is 2 blocks away, grocery store is 4 blocks.

The neighborhood: my NYC-lifer college buddy arrived here and promptly said, “Oh, it’s like Brooklyn.” Which is true, and the commute time should you need to get downtown is about the same as going from Brooklyn to Manhattan.

The El is not as good as the MTA, there’s no disputing it—they don’t get any funding, basically. And you can’t live here and be an “Oh I never take the BUS” person, like you can in NYC. But I haven’t owned a car in 2 years and I haven’t really missed it (any more than I missed a car in Manhattan…buying cat litter without a car sucks no matter where you live.).

Wow.  Hm.  I guess Chicago is going on my shortlist…  So far it’s one of the only exceptions to my above-stated cost of living axiom that I’ve found.  Seattle being the other, if you adopt a much looser idea of “convenient public transit” and also bike a lot, and are willing to have roommates.

NB: I’ve found that “centrally located” in Chicago is kind of a useless criteria. Sure, it’s pricey to live in “the Loop” or in the Streeterville/Printers’ Row areas right outside of it, but those people miss out on all the fun.

The benefit to living “centrally” is that if you work downtown, you have literally ZERO commute, as in, you walk only a few blocks to your job, no trains, no buses. If you don’t mind taking a train, or what have you, then you can spread out into the neighborhoods.

whoops. /chicago love hijack. Sorry y’all. Where’s the embarrassed smiley?

When I say living centrally, I’m talking more about the ability to get everywhere you need to go in a reasonable amount of time, and, again, without needing a car.

For instance, it is possible to get an apartment in New York City for the kind of prices you’re talking about.  But it will be in Staten Island, miles away from anything but the occasional express bus, and it will take you 2 hours to get to work.  And thus that doesn’t really count, because nobody wants to live like that.

Right, exactly. Oh man, I had kind of forgotten how NYC makes the rest of the world feel one million miles away. And for all practical purposes, I suppose it is. Disco Ball, we used to prepare for trips to Long Island like we were going on an arctic expedition.

Yeah, NYC kicks motherfucking ass!!! Try this Brooklyn restaurant:

http://www.vinegarhillhouse.com/

The bartender makes some very interesting authentic cocktails, and the food is mindblowing!

NobleExperiments,

I think first time tips for visiting NYC are more difficult to give than say a visit to DC because so much of the charm of the City is simply being there.  But what the hell—I’ll throw a couple of suggestions out there. 

1.  A walk on the Promenade in Brooklyn Heights.  A really great view of lower Manhattan from one of the most beautiful urban neighborhoods in America.  One way to do it is to take the aforementioned Big Onion walking tour of the Brooklyn Bridge and Brooklyn Heights.  Make sure it’s a nice day though;

2.  A ride on the Staten Island Ferry - it’s free, you get a nice view of the Statue of Liberty without having to wait in the line for the Circle Line boat.  Again, best on a nice day—Battery Park is really pleasant when the weather is good.

3.  A trip to the Museum of Natural History and a walk around that portion of Central Park.

4.  A trip to the Museum of Modern Art (if you like that sort of thing)—I believe that it is free on Friday nights, which is something to consider because museums in NYC are expensive.  (I’m used to being in DC and leeching off the taxpayers.)

5.  Walking around the Village on a Saturday afternoon. 

6.  After going to MOMA walk over to Fifth Avenue and walk from around 50th up to 59th.  Grab a drink at the Plaza Hotel.

Avoid Times Square.

I’m with Oppo. New York rent doesn’t seem so exorbitant once you accept that your apartment is going to be small. If you think of housing value in terms of square footage, you’re going to feel cheated.

My Brooklyn rent feels expensive until I consider that in any other city, I couldn’t possibly afford to live within walking distance of a subway stop, three or four bus lines, dozens of restaurants, a choice of grocery stores, numerous cool bars, a movie theater, doctors, dentists, clothing and shoe shopping, a hardware store, a couple of dollar stores, two second-hand stores, several independent bookstores and one big chain, and more bodegas than I can shake a stick at. Plus, I don’t need a car, so I’m saving hundreds of dollars a month on car payments, gas, insurance, and parking. I grew up in Vancouver where you have to drive everywhere. So, I really appreciate being able to walk to my friends’ houses. Not having to stop drinking at 11pm because you intend to leave a party at 1am and you have a 45-minute drive home, priceless!

The NYC rental market has softened considerably in the last three years.

I don’t know about rents in Chicago, but rents in D.C. are no bargain. I had way more room in DC, but I could barely walk to anything and public transit was pitiful compared to New York. If you want really exorbitant rent, try Boston.

March is Magnolia Month at Brooklyn Botanic Garden. Check the schedule, they have free admission days. I don’t think living in Texas can give you an understanding of the joy of seeing flowering trees give it up after so many long cold nights.

And don’t worry, there will come a time in late summer when you’re waiting for a train and it’ll be 140 degrees on the platform.

One of the best things about the City is the New York City Department of Parks & Recreation.

Why?  Free movies & concerts in the parks in the summer.  My favorite is the movie series in Brooklyn Bridge Park.

Why else?  Sunset Park pool.  Swim in this gigantic, beautiful pool and then have a picnic in Sunset Park and take in the amazing harbor views.  75$ a year gets you access to all NYC recreation centers, including pools.

Enjoy!

Gracchus and Sir Charles, thank you so much.  This first time is just to get the flavor of NYC, but I have a feeling I’m going to get hooked.  Is Times Square to be avoided because of the tourist thing?  I thought it was very different from the it’s-not-safe-there days, but perhaps I’m wrong.

I’m coming into Penn Station and staying in a hostel in the Upper West Side.  Since I’ve never been there and want to see all the tourist places, I’ll probably take an on-off tour one day, but for the other days I just want to soak it all up, and I’ll definitely try to put your suggestions into my stay.

Opoponax, “convenient public transportation” is indeed an issue in Seattle.  Downtown has a good grid system and free fares in the core area, but once you get away there, it’s not very good.  And until recently there was no real grocery stores in the downtown core, so it was a real shlep on the bus to one of the outer ring towns.  A couple of years ago, there was a lot of talk of what it would take to turn Seattle into a foot-friendly place (they’re trying to lure young people back to the city), and the top two things were better transit and corner groceries; the NYC model was talked about a lot.

Other than that, I’d highly recommend the Pacific Northwest (and consider Portland, as well, which has a great walker- and bike-friendly vibe).

Is “Magnolia Month” the same kind of Magnolias they have in the south?

It was so weird the time I discovered that all northerners call those smallish leafless pink flowering trees magnolias*, and have never heard of the big green leafy white-flowered ones at all.

Then again, knowing the Brooklyn Botanical garden, they have every kind of magnolia known to man. 

Highly recommend the Botanical Garden, btw - the Chili Festival every October is lots of fun.

Also, the Brooklyn Museum.  It’s one of the best museums in the city, with a collection second only to The Met.  If it were in another city, it would be up there with the Louvre, the Tate, the Smithsonian, etc.

Noble Experiments: definitely check out Brooklyn if you have a chance.  If you’re pressed for time, try walking over the Brooklyn Bridge from Manhattan, eating pizza at Grimaldi’s, and having a walk through Brooklyn Heights.  If you have a day to devote, I’d head a little deeper into Brooklyn and plan a day around Prospect Park, the Brooklyn Museum, the Botanical Gardens, and at least one quintessential Brooklyn food experience (Tom’s Diner** in Prospect Heights, maybe, or Lucali for pizza in Carroll Gardens).

* When I first discovered this, I took it to wikipedia, and they’re two different kinds of magnolias.  Still, it threw me for a loop.

**NOT the Tom’s Diner that is on the Upper West Side and famous for being the exterior of the diner on Seinfeld.  That place is naff, to be avoided at all costs.

Is Times Square to be avoided because of the tourist thing?  I thought it was very different from the it’s-not-safe-there days, but perhaps I’m wrong.

It’s just lame.  And nobody who lives here ever goes there (unless you have tickets to a Broadway show).  And it’s basically a big ranky mall full of stores that either already exist in your mall back home, or are just pointless and meh.  And it stinks, and it’s crowded.  Though they did recently create a pedestrian plaza with benches and stuff, so there is that. 

Also, I’d recommend against an on-off tour bus, unless you have mobility issues.  New York is a walking and public transit city.  It’s a lot more compact than you’d expect.  The subway system is extremely convenient and easy to navigate, especially if you’re mostly staying in Manhattan.  It’s also a city where most of the attractions and tourist sights are places where you go in and do things, rather than places where you drive by and observe.  It’s also a city that is built more on a person scale than a car scale, which makes it hard to get a real sense of the place on a big double decker bus.  Blink and you’ll miss Little Italy - it’s about a three block square.  Tribeca is probably smaller than some McMansions in L.A.

Nobleexperiments,

Times Square is to be avoided (unless you go to see a play, which is a great thing to do) because it is really crowded, totally touristy and utterly charmless.  It’s not dangerous, just ugly.

A tour to get the lay of the land is not a bad idea.  I’ve done that in a number of cities and it can be a way to see a lot in a short time and get a basic sense of where things are. 

The upper West Side is a great neighborhood.  Buy a subway ticket with enough money on it to take multiple rides and try to get a sense of the lines that are near you.  The one quirk of Manhattan and the subway is that it is incredibly efficient and fast going north - south, but it is tricky to get from west to east. 

Have a great time.

I’m coming into Penn Station and staying in a hostel in the Upper West Side.

Not the West Side Inn, is it?

Also, Amanda, I’m going to assume you know about Celebrate Brooklyn!, the $2-suggested-donation concert series at the Prospect Park bandshell which goes on all summer?

Last summer had David Byrne, MGMT, Blonde Redhead, They Might Be Giants, Kronos Quartet, King Sunny Ade, Buckwheat Zydeco, Crystal Stilts, and Deer Tick, to name only the biggest names, and only the folks who did the $2 shows.  They also do a week of benefit concerts for around $30, usually in August, which means tickets are rarely hard to get.  They also do a lot of smaller weeknight shows - my favorite last year was the Purple Rain Sing A Long screening.  Basically, long story short, it’s one of the best things about living in New York, hands down.  And it’s probably in walking distance from your house.

Times Square is to be avoided (unless you go to see a play, which is a great thing to do) because it is really crowded, totally touristy and utterly charmless.  It’s not dangerous, just ugly.

YMMV on the “ugly”.  I, for one, love five-story billboards for Broadway shows. 

No argument with the rest of it.  And I would add “expensive” to the list.  As a rule of thumb, everything is more expensive as you get closer to Times Square.

This just in from my stb-ex, who was born & raised on Manhattan itself:

While Times Square is crowded & touristy, it is also the heart of NYC.  If you’re coming to New York for the first time, you should at least stop in and see it for that reason alone. 

If you’d like to go someplace to get a little history & information on Times Square itself, I can help you with that.

Once you’re done there, you can go over a few blocks to 8th or 9th avenue, where you can find the kind of unique, charming (or at least high-personality) restaurants that you presumably came to New York to visit.

Srsly, “the heart of NYC”?  Granted I wasn’t born here and have only lived here for a decade, which probably makes me a clueless noob in the eyes of your ex, but no.  Just no. 

I’m quite serious when I say that nobody who lives here goes to Times Square, if they can avoid it.  I was at dinner last night with some friends who work in Midtown.  One of them brought up the new Shake Shack that’s going to open soon in the west 40’s.  The other pointed out (and I’m quoting pretty much verbatim):

“Wait, 46th and 7th?  That’s right in the middle of Times Square.  Ugh.  You know we are so never going there, right?” 

And these are two lifelong New Yorkers who work mere blocks from Times Square.  People who refuse to hang out in Times Square, even though they are practically paid to do so.  Even when it is not only convenient for them, but would also involve patronizing a well-regarded restaurant.

Also, 8th Ave in the 40’s pretty much is Times Square (or worse, the sketchy area around the Port Authority), and 9th Ave is mostly seedy hotels and bad chain restaurants.  Side streets in the upper 40’s and low 50’s between 9th and 10th have some decent restaurants, if you’re going to a show or something and find yourself in the area needing to eat.  You’ll do better in almost any other part of the city, though.  Definitely not a destination to do more than scarf a burrito at Chipotle.

If only there were some OTHER kind of place in the world, that was neither Podunk nor Sainted Manhattan. Like a city, but one called….“Chicago,” or “Washington, D.C.,” or something equally unfathomable.

I’ve lived in Manhattan and in Washington DC.  DC is a fucking joke.  You couldn’t pay me to live there again.  Chicago and Boston are really nice though.

RG,

I’ve grown kind of fond of DC in my 28 years here.  It’s not NYC for sure, but it’s really not an unpleasant place to live—and has really been on the upswing the last several years.

Huh, I don’t believe that rent in NYC is not much more than other places when you factor in car expenses. I’ve lived in Seattle, Austin, Philadelphia, DC—and all of these places had at least 50% cheaper rent than any of the crummy places I’ve seen in new York. In Philly you can get a 1 bedroom in center city for 800$. In Seattle I lived in a basement apartment in a house for $300. Even San Francisco—where we feel absolutely gouged, we’re paying $2000 for a two bedroom with its own giant deck, a backyard, and laundry.  Yes, the subway system is absurdly awesome in New York, but I didn’t have a car in any of these places and found it was pretty easy to live in a central location and get around without a car. Austin’s on the edge of being bikeable, but everywhere else—having a car was a liability. I have a car now in SF, and only drive it out of town. But even our two bedroom + car + gas + insurance + depreciation + exorbitant California licensing costs is still cheaper than what my sister-in-law’s paying for a studio in New York.

I also don’t think the only downside to apartments in New York is the smaller space. If it was just a smaller bedroom or bathroom, I’d be happy. I mind having to do cooking and chopping in the living room because the kitchen has no space. Also, it’s not just a smaller space, it’s often a crummier space.  You get no light in windows because all the buildings are crammed together. Floors can be slanted, rooms are weirdly shaped, buildings are super old and not maintained. Forget about in-building laundry or dishwashers at most of the places.

I think New York is a hard place to move to at first. Once you’re living there and can scope out apartments all the time, you might find a decent deal that’s live-able.  But as a place to get to first time? No way.

Granted I wasn’t born here and have only lived here for a decade, which probably makes me a clueless noob in the eyes of your ex

Yes, in fact, it does. 

She’s not particularly impressed by “lifelong New Yorkers” who are scared away from a good restaurant because of its address (which is on the northeast corner of Times Square, btw, not “in the middle”), either. 

For the record, she also works a mere block from Times Square.  Does that add or subtract from her legitimacy as a source? 

but no.  Just no.

(Original, highly profane response redacted)

I don’t appreciate your high-handedness.  You have ten years, I have eight.  We both have lifelong New Yorkers as friends.  You have no more ground to stand on than I do on this topic, so you don’t get to brush off my statements with “no, just no”. 

Like it or not, Times Square is the heart of NYC - all the blood flows through it.  There’s still some genuine life and history buried beneath the Disney.  You don’t have to spend a lot of time there, but if this is your one visit, you need to at least stop in and see it, just to feel hum. 

Side streets in the upper 40’s and low 50’s between 9th and 10th have some decent restaurants, if you’re going to a show or something and find yourself in the area needing to eat.

Whoo-ee.  Restaurant Row is just “decent”?  That explains a lot.

Feel “the” hum.

I’ve grown kind of fond of DC in my 28 years here.  It’s not NYC for sure, but it’s really not an unpleasant place to live—and has really been on the upswing the last several years.

Maybe when NE and SE get decent metro coverage.  I used to work at Legal Aid of DC so I got to go all over town.  IMHO, DC is the worst of both worlds - all the problems associated with a city but none of the benefits like density, walkability, etc.  DC without a car is impossible.  This is especially true if you go to the SE and NE quadrants.  I spent a lot of time there, and funny enough the metro system has virtually no coverage there.  It couldn’t be because NE and SE are predominantly poor and African American could it?  You can do Boston without a car, and possibly Chicago and San Francisco.  DC is basically Atlanta or Houston, but poorer and with less cultural activities.  Yes, I said it.  DC is a typical southern city in that it is a cultural wasteland.  Give me New York and New England any day.

I will give the Landless Theater (in DC and Frederick, MD) credit though - they can usually hang with the best off-Broadway fare in the City.  (Note: I prefer off-Broadway to Broadway, so this is not meant as a slam.)  I spent a lot of time there.

Right now, I live in Binghamton, NY.  Vastly superior to DC.  We even have two decent theater groups here.  But still, there is no place I would rather live than NYC.

New York always felt to me like I was living with a chronic case of bronchitis. I don’t just mean the air quality, because given the density the air quality there isn’t that bad. It was the way in which everything, absolutely everything, is just that tiny bit more difficult than it ought to be. Like oh, this should have been a simple errand, but now it isn’t…quite…and at the end of the day you’re just done for. So draining.

If you want to do the tourist bit in NYC, even just vicariously, you might have a look at what these guys say about the history of whatever you want to see.  They also have a charming podcast series to go with it.

I’ve looked at both D.C. and Chicago, and, if you want to live in a part of the city where you can really rely on public transit, the housing costs are in line with New York.  Similar for San Francisco, Boston, and any other city where one could feasibly live car-free without a serious commitment to one’s bicycle.

Don’t know about those places, but Philly is much cheaper than New York, as t-ster points out above, and I’ve been living here for seven and a half years now without either a bike or a car.  For the first five years here, when I had roommates, I never paid more than $500/month in rent - mostly living outside Center City, but in perfectly walkable/public transit-accessible places, and generally I got a fair amount of space.  Now I’m paying $850 for a big studio in one of the fancier parts of Center City, which is probably around the median.  Public transit’s not terrific here, but the central part of the city is geographically fairly small, so it’s quite walkable, and public transit is sufficient for most other purposes. 

Also, bars and restaurants are much cheaper here, which adds up.

I hope the link works!

http://www.tdf.org/TDF_ServicePage.aspx?id=56

Best reason to go to Times Square—the TKTS ticket booth for same-day theater tickets. If you aren’t sure what you want to see, but want to go to a show, you can check it out for Broadway and some Off-Broadway shows.

I don’t avoid Times Square, but I do grumble about the tourists when I go there—usually for theater.

And—per Opponax—I live in Staten Island, and have not too expensive rent that I can handle on my own. Though I do live five minutes walk from the train, so my commute is only 1-1/2 hours, which is great for reading!

What I love about living here is there is something for everyone, and you can get just about anything here.

All I’ll say, Seraph, is this -

If you can afford to eat in Restaurant Row with any regularity, I’m sure Times Square is a neato quaint historical “experience” for you.  Whee, look at what the plebs from Ohio are up to these days…!

The bottom line, and I don’t say this with any vitriol for that part of the city, is that Times Square is overrated.  If you’re here only once, for only a few days, there’s a lot of other things you could see or do with the time you’ll waste buying cheap plastic trinkets in the Hershey’s Outlet Store or browsing for jeans in the Gap that is identical to the Gap in your hometown.  Which isn’t to say it should be avoided at all costs, just that visitors should know that “meh” is about the best you can say for it.  If you don’t like it, you can’t really go home and say that you didn’t like New York. 

FWIW, I’ve always felt like the stretch of lower Broadway from Canal street to a couple blocks north of Houston is the sort of experience Times Square is meant to be.  If, as a tourist, you’re looking for that “lifeblood of the city” vibe the guidebooks promised you’d find in midtown, try Broadway in Soho.

My daughter has a 1 bedroon plus bonus room first floor apartment in a two family for about $1200, with premission to use the garden space however she likes, in Watertown, Boston.  It is near two buslines, a longish but still doable in winter walk to the T, etc.  She still has to have a car for work though.

AT & T sucks, and Verizon is the only carrier that doesn’t drop calls and that you can get service on everywhere.  But if you have an Iphone you’re out of luck, which is why I have blackberry even though I think the Iphone is cooler.  I won’t deal with AT & T’s sucky service. 

When summer comes, of course you have to go to Coney Island, at least once.  And there are no Nathans that have the french fries that are as good as Coney Island Nathans.

That is with paying extra for her cat.

To any future NYC visitors:  Research the current transit fare before you come to the City.  The current single fare is $2.25.  Bring or arrange to get a lot of quarters.  The buses DON’T take dollar bills—it’s all change or a Metrocard.  (Because I sit in front of the bus for handicapped access, I often provide change or information about Metrocards to visitors who don’t have change for the fare.) 

The One-day “Fun Pass” Metrocard (unlimited rides) is sold at many newstands and stores like that and not at Token Booths. Although they are talking about closing most (almost all) of those, which means you’d have to buy the Metrocard at a machine in the subway station.  Metrocards can be used on buses and subway.  Paying by cash on the bus gets you a paper transfer good only for another bus.

Check out the MTA website for details about the different kinds of Metrocards.

Is Times Square to be avoided because of the tourist thing?

Not if you’re a tourist. As a shrine to consumerism, it’s definitely something you should see if you’re visiting the first time, but not spend too much time at. Go around 8PM at night to see all the billboards lit up, walk from one end to another and marvel at/curse the teeming crowds, avoid entering the shops and restaurants or tourist traps. Then go down the side streets and peek into the theatres as they let out for intermission (if you can see a show, even better—see the comment about TKTS). Shouldn’t take more than an hour of your time, and you can check it off your list and never go back unless it’s to the theatre—just like a real NYer!

Since I’ve never been there and want to see all the tourist places, I’ll probably take an on-off tour one day,

Just make sure there’s more “off” than “on”—you’re better off walking and seeing things from ground level. Better yet, from below ground level, since the subway is a wonder in and of itself.

The only additional suggestions I’d make for the “must-sees” is skipping the Empire State Building observation deck (enormous queue) in favour of the one at Rockefeller Centre (great view, including the Empire State). And as someone mentioned above, avoid going to the Statue of Liberty (again, lines plus security sweeps)—the free Staten Island Ferry will get you excellent views of the statue (a good way to get your photo taken with it) and the Financial District skyline on the way back. Ellis Island is worth visiting if you’re into the history of the immigrant experience.

Are you into art? History? Architecture? Books? People-watching? Fashion? Hiking? Music? Food? Movies? Money and Commerce? Fashion? Theatre? Hipsters/Bomhemians? Urban infrastructure? Let us know a couple your main passions and we’ll give you a couple of good spots that are off the beaten path.

<blockquote>Huh, I don’t believe that rent in NYC is not much more than other places when you factor in car expenses<.blockquote>

Not having to own and maintain a car does make up most of the the difference, but it’s still significantly more than a place of comparable quality (if not sqf) in other large cities.

Richard G.

You’re right about a lot of DC being hard to live in without a car.  I did it for several years, but it wasn’t always easy even though I was not in overly out of the way neighborhoods—Northeast Capitol Hill, U Street (long before the Green Line) and Adams Morgan.  The Metro was really designed to funnel suburban workers into jobs at the federal government more than it was made for inner city transit.  The gutting of bus service has really hurt too.  The kiiller for me was having to get to clients in the suburbs.  I found I just couldn’t get to places where I would be able to walk from a Metro stop. 

But other than New York and Boston, how many cities in the U.S. are easy to get around in without a car?  All of the ones that I have been in—even San Francisco and Philly—seem to have big gaps in their transit systems as well.

Gracchus,

I meant to mention Rockefeller Center as a good alternative to the endless lines at the Empire State building.  And the neighborhood is much more fun to be in.

You live near Prospect Park?  You should join the Park Slope Food Coop.  Fresh produce year round and a wide variety of affordably priced products you would have a hard time finding anywhere else.

Also, you should check out Bierkraft.

I forgot to add the MTA web site:

www.mta.info

This agency operates NYC Transit, Long Island Railroad and buses and MetroNorth (railroad up and through the northern suburbs, including Westchester and Putnam counties and into Connecticut.)

(I really should create one informational comment and store it to cut and paste into comment threads.)

One more transit comment (thanks for your patience):

Bus drivers DO NOT MAKE CHANGE.  They have not made change for at least 30 years, they do not carry money at all for fares.  I see and hear people all the time get on a bus and are shocked they can’t pay with bills.

Although you might hear of a passenger having a physical fight with a driver or killing one (an acquaintance who was a driver was killed in early ‘80s) robberies are just about non-existent because drivers don’t have cash.  (The fare boxes aren’t just bolted to the floor, they’re bolted to the bus frame.)

Thank you for putting into words what I’ve been trying to explain to Midwesterners for years….“keep up and don’t get in the way” are virtues in the east. It doesn’t mean people are mean, rude, or cold. It does mean that when you walk into a grocery store you aren’t stopped by someone who is arranging their pocketbook, having a conversation, or putting his kid in the stroller while blocking the doorway.

Make sure you get to Virgil’s Barbeque in Manhattan.  Damn fine Louisiana grub with campfire beans so good you can taste the flames.

Speaking as a goofball midwestern tourist who only visits New York occasionally, I’m a bit ambivalent about Times Square.  Everyone should see it once, I think, but it *is* hideously crowded and once you’ve seen it, there’s not a whole lot of reasons to go back unless you have theater tickets or just really like the ferris wheel at the giant Toys R Us store.

Oh, and fuck the fucking Yankees.

The key is stability. I usually made friends with the older, long-time residents of my buildings, and people with kids. No matter how hard you try, though, you’ll get the kooks and leeches, too—but even they redeem themselves later on as “NYC characters I’ve met and known.”
Comment #18: Gracchus on 03/03 at 05:31 PM

Dogs, have to get a dog in NYC, says the former dog walker - nothing breaks the ice (probably anywhere but I noticed it particularly as a dog walker in NYC) standing at the curb on an icy morning waiting for the respective pooches to poop.  Oh, and NYC rule - the smaller the apartment, the larger the dog.

Oh yeah, thinking of spring…

Aids Walk New York and Ninth Ave. International Food Festival both happen on May 16th.

I have seen this combination plus a set of huge conventions at the Javits bring taxi drivers close to tears.

People do not bullshit you here.  This was also true in many cases in Austin—-waiters didn’t try to be your friend, sales clerks appreciate the value of not wasting time.  So not much change there.

I’m glad to hear that this is working out for you, and I think you described the attitude perfectly - no bullshit. From my perspective as a Northerner, the attitude is “I don’t know you, so why the fuck should I pretend to be your best friend?” People are not actually mean or rude to each other, and in fact do mostly look out for each other and act like human beings (like your example of people behind you picking up something you’ve dropped). The construction of Northerners as rude really irritates me; when I hear someone say so, I take it as evidence that the person saying it simply hasn’t made the effort to understand the differences in culture.

New York rocks. Boston is nearer and dearer to my heart, being from Massachusetts, but I always love visiting New York City. It’s big enough that it makes me a bit claustrophobic (especially Manhattan), and I don’t know that I would want to live there, but I ‘get’ it. Okay, so New Yorkers sometimes irritate me with their occasional over-inflated sense of self-importance, and as a culturally born-and-bred resident of the Boston Metro West I am contractually obligated to dislike New York sports teams, but New York is simply wicked fuckin’ awesome and I’m glad you’re enjoying it.

NobleExperiments,

I almost forgot: the Circle Line Boat Tour. I’d even ditch the on-and-off bus in favour of that. It’s a significant time investment (about 3 hours as I recall), but you see the entire perimeter of Manhattan, including bridges and every major waterfront neighbourhood. The guides are very informative. Between the Circle Line and the Rockefeller Centre observation deck you’ll get a broad overview of Manhattan and parts of the other boroughs.

One other general NY pro-tip: if you see a parade, head in the other direction. St. Paddy’s, Gay Pride, Puerto Rican Day, Thanksgiving, ticker-tape, political, what have you: avoid, avoid, avoid. The exception is the Village Halloween parade, which is worth braving the crowds.

Dogs, have to get a dog in NYC, says the former dog walker

So true. I didn’t have one myself, but I was an enthusiastic dog-sitter. Even better, my friends chose some funny-looking breeds, which always helps with the ice-breaking. Especially with a not-so-funny-looking female dog owner.

I’m glad to hear that this is working out for you, and I think you described the attitude perfectly - no bullshit.

It’s also why NYC is my favourite place to do business—no small talk, no banalities, no nonsense, just get to the bloody deal.

While late to the party and hardly a NYC expert despite growing up in the lower Hudson Valley, I just wanted to recommend not completely neglecting that stepchild among the boroughs, Queens.  In particular, if you like Asian food, you’ve got to spend some time in Flushing.

Times Square is actually kinda fun right now, with the new pedestrian seating areas and the ticket booth. 

But if you care about good food and have a budget, don’t eat there.  It’s not that everything is terrible, but that there are so many better options in NYC it seems wrong to spend any money there.  There are so many better, cheaper places to eat, ESPECIALLY in Brooklyn.  Even in a place like the West Village, there are affordable options.

Same for most places in Little Italy - mediocre and a waste of money.

In general, to eat well and cheaply, go to the Flushing Chinatown, Jackson Heights little India, etc, or follow the hipsters (Brooklyn, LES, Nolita) for affordable but delicious food.

Opoponax, I work in Times Square (theater) and it definitely DOES suck on a daily basis. I get serious friggin rage like all the time. But I think it’s definitely something that a first-timer would plausibly at least want to see, all lit up at night, on their way to other, “cooler” things. I don’t really understand this attitude that only “plebs from Ohio” (what a gross thing to say) would go to Times Square - it seems kind of, like, conspicuously too-cool-for-words, in a high-school sort of way.

Yes, it is full of tourists. Yes, it’s full of mall retailers and stores devoted, inexplicably, to brands of candy. I get it. GOD do I get it - approximately 10 times a day, I am reminded of how strongly I get it. But every time a friend visits NYC for the first time, I see how Times Square just visually stuns people at first glance - and I remember that it’s actually pretty freaking amazing to see, once. It’s like video game-levels of sensory overload, in real life, bigger than anything you’ve ever encountered before. You get off the subway, you walk a few blocks, you take it all in; you continue on your way. You are not bound by your presence in Times Square to eat at Bubba Gump and buy M&Ms;in cab colors. You can just SEE IT and that’s worth doing, for a lot of people. Hell, even now, some nights I get off work and I’m all in a bad-mood rush to get away from the slow walkers, and then I just LOOK AT IT and it’s kind of amazing. I mean as like a feat of human civilization/technology/etc. Even the ‘why’ aspect is kind of mind-blowing - the absurdity of a gigantic lit-up Coke sign, running news blurbs, all this knowledge and effort and energy for…what? Who the fuck ARE we, to create such a thing? etc.

As mentioned, the shows are there, TKTS is a great resource; and you’re like 5 effing steps from Hell’s Kitchen, where you can get good food and a decent atmosphere if you walk basically anywhere on 9th or 10th Ave.

FWIW I was born in Brooklyn and have lived in NYC my whole life; am in Astoria now. I work in Times Square and you’d damn well better believe that when I’m at work, or grabbing a post-work beer with colleagues, I eat on the outskirts of Times Square, or what your friend considers the middle of Times Square.

#1.  Honestly, space is overrated. - The Opoponax

Still, it would be nice to be able to afford to live in a place with a kitchen big enough to actually have counter space (rather than having to move to the dining room table to prep any meal more complicated than a stir-fry).  It also would be nice to have more than one bedroom so my wife and I wouldn’t have to escape to the living room so as to, um, not disturb our sleeping daughter.

And we don’t even live close enough to the subway that we get the full benefits of living in such a densely populated area.

@ The Opoponax

I’ve lived in Chicago for 7 years now, and I love it. I had some sticker shock at first (coming from Mesa, AZ), and when I was looking the only places I found online that I could afford turned out to be parking spots.

So… My advice would be to find a place on the outskirts, maybe in Edgewater or Logan Square (both about 30-45 minutes from the Loop), and see if you can get a six month lease. You need to spend time in a city to find your neighborhood, IMO.

Oh, and rent? I had a really nice, large studio in Lakeview (aka the Gayborhood) with a view of Lake Michigan and tons of transit options for $700 a month. That included building staff on site, in-building laundry, etc. It was big enough for me to divide into a living room and bedroom, too.

Shit, man, do they still have Jimbo’s Hamburger Palace on 126th and Bway? That place nearly killed me, but it would have been a worthy and noble death.

On cocktails, try a Caipirinha. It’s like a Mojito, but much better.

Oh, the Village Halloween parade!  How could I have forgotten that?  Gracchus, thanks for reminding me.  I worked on Mercer one year, about ten years ago, copywriting for a jewelry designer.  Halloween was like Christmas there!  The parade is amazing, but even in my office, they brought in face painters, and most of the office had it done during the day.  Yeah you definitely have to do that at least once.

Times Square still takes my breath away at night.  I don’t care if that makes me unhip, or whatever.  The day comes I can’t appreciate Times Square, I’ll know I’m too cynical and too damned old. 

But it’s true, I wouldn’t eat or shop there.  Unless like another poster, I worked there, then for lunch, sure.

you may do better to just wait on seeing movies when you come back to visit. i went out of my way to go to movie theaters in ny that i thought wouldn’t be horrible and i still saw fistfights, obnoxious teenagers, and cell phone calls mid-flick. and with no beer to boot. the best place i found was the ziegfeld on 54th. there’s plenty of places for ‘film’ but for regular movies, just come to austin

Wow, so many memories came rushing back reading this thread:

- LostSailor beat me to it:  Definitely take in Shakespeare In The Park.  The line for tickets used to be along the ring of trees around the large field just north of the theater (around the 80’s, streetwise), and was more of a picnic atmosphere, with people just hanging out with food, books, and board games, but the last time I got tickets (to The Seagull in 2001) the line was…just a line.  I’ve never understood the hatred of waiting in line for something good, and I think my experiences growing up in NYC are part of it (I also associate waiting in line with the premieres of Star Wars/Indiana Jones movies at Lowe’s 86 [think Ziegfeld size], which is now defunct)

- One of my favorite parts of waiting in line for tickets to Shakespeare In The Park was Bill Mack’s Royal Short Company, which put on such abbreviated Shakespeare plays as “Two Gentlemen From Corona, Queens”.  Sadly, he was on the Lockerbie flight in 1988.  I don’t even know if there’s any video of his performances anywhere (YouTube came up blank)

- AnglScarlett:  I thought the Halloween Parade now went through Chelsea?  It was amazing when I went to it in the mid ‘80s.  They’d put huge puppet spiders in the clock towers so you could see their silouhettes on the clock faces.  And the sheer joy everyone was having was terrific!

- Speaking of the Village, gone but never forgotten to me is the 8th Street Playhouse, where I watched Rocky Horror every Saturday during the Summer of 1989

- I know it’s not your thing, Amanda, but carnivores should try Jackson Hole for their 7oz burgers.

- Re Times Square tackiness:  I know!  Isn’t it awful how they put in those Red Lobsters and Olive Gardens?  What happened to the authentic restaurants like Tony Roma’s and Beefsteak Charlie’s?  (I will admit, though, the Howard Johnson’s restaurant had a retro charm to it.)

As someone who’s now lived in Chicago longer than he was raised in NYC (Oy!), I just want to briefly chime in about rent/accessability.  Chicago has similar problems to NYC as far as going cross town (East-West), so if you don’t live along the Lake, or are going somewhere off the Lake it can be tricky.  However, the CTA has rolled out Bus Tracker, which allows you to see when the next bus will arrive in real time, so at least you won’t be freezing your ass off quite as much.

Similarly, there’s a good stretch of Chicago going up the Lake that has the kind of amenities that Lindsay describes about her neighborhood, and 1br go for around $800 - $1200.  Depending on where you work, a car would be optional.

But yes, the “car optional” parts of Chicago are less than Manhattan/Brooklyn, though it really depends where in Brooklyn:  My mom lived in Carroll Gardens for a while, and grocery shopping was a pain in the ass, as the store was about 1/4 mile away.  I guess YMMV on that score, but if the radius of walkable for groceries is 1/4 to 1/2 a mile, then more parts of Chicago become acceptable.  (Why do I feel like Jon Stewart asking Stephen Colbert “Can I interest you…in some Channukah?”)

About getting around:

1. Sometimes you have a choice of going someplace either by bus or by subway. If you go one way and come back the other (and can turn it around within 2 hours), the Metrocard registers it as a transfer and the return trip is free.

2. If you have to go someplace during the day or evening, subways are generally faster because they don’t have to deal with traffic. However, between 11pm and 6 am-ish, cabs are faster because the subways run on a limited schedule.

3. If a cabbie gives someone the finger with his middle finger bent towards his palm, he’s probably from the Mideast. (1) If you want to make friends with a cabbie, say something derogatory about the Taxi and Limousine Commission.

_______
(1) W/r/t Mideasterners: they’re mostly Muslims, of course. This doesn’t usually make much difference about anything, but try to note when Ramadan is; a lot of people around you then might not have eaten or drunk anything all day (i.e., no water all day—and this is in August), so you might want to cut them some slack.

On cocktails, try a Caipirinha. It’s like a Mojito, but much better.
Comment #112: Ginger Yellow on 03/04 at 01:36 PM

Oh yes.  But if you don’t see the bartender pull out the limes and the sugar and the masher, tell her no thanks.

Former East Coast (DC, NYC, and Durham, NC) now West coast. 

For records in NYC I always had the best luck in the little hole int he wall shops near Bleecker St.  For some reason, Cornelia street comes to mind—but that was a while ago.  Just wander around that area usually found good shops and a lot of bootlegs.

I truly dislike the fake friendliness outside the northeast.

If you want really exorbitant rent, try Boston.

A large part of that is due to the fact the Boston area has many colleges and is one big college town.  As a result, landlords…especially those who own buildings with good public transportation access to/near college campuses can gouge students…and if anyone complains…they can often find some wealthy trust-fund kiddy…whether US or international to pay more.  When I was living and working up there, it wasn’t unheard of for some of the trust-fund/wealthy kiddie set to do ostentatious things like fly off to Paris every weekend to drop $10,000 on some nice fashionable duds so that s(he) has something new to wear that following week. 

On the other hand, Boston is a much smaller city geographically than NYC so one can get around more easily on foot than even NYC.  Wasn’t that much of a big deal for me to walk from Symphony Hall to Harvard University…..around 40-50 leisurely minutes on scenic Mass Ave. 

Times Square?  Really?  People like Times Square these days?

Maybe it’s just me, but I thought it was a kabillion times better & more fun before it become another Disney.  The RKO Warner movie theater (among others), the 3-card monte dealers, the pron theaters & peep shows, the drug dealers and worse, the crazies and their religious rantings.

What it is now is just no fun.  No fun at all.  Not for me, anyway.

Though the current Times Square is an oversanitized Disneyworld which does not showcase NYC’s true character, I’d take that over what I remembered from the 1980’s when it was a dark seedy violent crime-ridden dump.  If you’d have said that Times Square would become the Disneyfied place it is now where well-off suburbanites with young children/babies would be hanging out well past 1 am to my childhood friends and myself back in the ‘80s, we’d be asking you what weird drugs you’ve been smoking that week….

Thank you to everyone for the suggestions for this newbie to NYC.  I still have a couple of weeks to get things organized, but I think I will skip the tour bus and just take the subway/cabs/feet to get around.

I know I’m a tourist, but I hate being a tourist, if you know what I mean.  Even here in laid-back Seattle, one should never stop in the middle of a traffic flow to gawk, even if the statue of Lenin in Fremont is pretty amazing.

Though the current Times Square is an oversanitized Disneyworld which does not showcase NYC’s true character, I’d take that over what I remembered from the 1980’s when it was a dark seedy violent crime-ridden dump.

Meh.  My memories were less traumatic than yours, it seems, exholt.  Seedy, yes, but to me that just means the roles of who felt unwelcome were reversed.

As for the dark and crime-ridden, my recollections are the same about anywhere else in NYC at the time:  Stay where it’s brightly lit and there are people, which even then wasn’t hard to achieve in Times Square.

I’m going to keep trying to stem the tide, but I suspect sooner or later many people will believe that The Warriors was a documentary about life in NYC in the ‘70s.

If you can afford to eat in Restaurant Row with any regularity, I’m sure Times Square is a neato quaint historical “experience” for you.  Whee, look at what the plebs from Ohio are up to these days…!

Your reading comprehension cannot be this bad.  This has to be an act.

Blog-whoring for a friend: http://lostnewyorkcity.blogspot.com/

Since I can’t go, I’ll recommend Las Rubias del Norte’s CD release party at Joe’s Pub on the 12th:

http://lasrubiasdelnorte.com/events.php

Great mix of genres, always an excellent show.

Also, the cell phone thing? Not just AT&T;. We had Spring & T-Mobile while we were there, same problem. I think the walls in NYC are lined with kryptonite or something.

Amanda and Mark (and everyone else), here are two great out-of-the-way summer NYC adventures:

http://www.cityisland.com/history.html (like a New England port town within the NYC city limits)

http://www.queensmuseum.org/exhibitions/visitpanorama (scale model of NYC containing every building in all five boroughs—at site of 1939 and 1964 world’s fairs)