I suggest we all make a donation to PP in Lila Rose’s name.

Conservatives care a lot more about shrieking loudly at wrongdoers and condemning them than they do about what’s effective. That’s why they don’t care if their politicians are hypocrites and don’t even see why liberals have a problem with it. That’s why they’re anti-choice. And that’s why this video shows the employee being bad, wrong and immoral no matter how much it seems obvious to the rest of us she was doing the right thing. She’s not vocally condemning the bad guys and lip service is literally all that counts for them.

When I worked in banking and someone was trying to pass a bad check, we didn’t immediately say, “Hey, wait here.  I’m going to call the police.” We fronted and acted normal, while quietly trying to report them.  That’s how this works.

Bank Teller #1: Does this look like “gub” or “gun”?

Bank Teller #2: Gun. See? But what does “abt” mean?

‘Virgil: It’s “act”. A-C-T. Act natural. Please put fifty thousand dollars into this bag and act natural.

Bank Teller #1: Oh, I see. This is a holdup?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065063/quotes

I work in the scheduling department for a series of Planned Parenthood clinics so I know what it is to deal with suspicious people and situations and wonder whether this is an entrapment attempt and whether I am being recorded.  What you try to do is act natural, give out accurate information, and if they make an appointment, write notes on the patient account as to exactly why this person seemed weird so that the clinic staff knows to be on their guard.

The only thing this nurse did that I wouldn’t have done (and what ultimately got her into the video) is to get into the hypotheticals like that.  If a person calls me and says “I want my 14 year old girlfriend to have an abortion, what do i need to do?” my answer always will be “If you know a woman who is pregnant and wants to have an abortion, she can give us a call and we can answer all the questions she has about what she needs to do.”  I wouldn’t even get into it with anyone other than that patient.

The PP affiliate that I work for has never appeared in any of Lila Rose’s videos but we know that she and her people have been in our clinics.  These people do this all year round in basically every Planned Parenthood in America and once or twice a year they manage to trick someone into saying something they can edit and use.

I’m presuming that the popularity of “pimps and hos” themed frat parties probably hasn’t diminished too much since I was in school.  So, yeah, the pool of young, conservative men who are dying to pretend to be pimps is probably pretty limitless.

On deeper thought, it is kind of odd to see conservative, sex-phobic guys acting in ways that might spread STDs amongst sex workers.  That’s how you know that they’re young, they haven’t ever been seriously tempted to hire a prostitute.  They still think there’s a chance they can get their rocks off with a willing peer.  It’s when they’re married, with pre-nups covering infidelity and something to lose that they’ll be thinking that a professional may be easiest way to get their rocks off, and nothing like picking up an STD from the sex worker to blow their cover.  Or so I imagine would be the difference between young and old conservatives.

“If you could just spend your youth like less-evil people did, by screwing around joyfully and maybe listening to some non-shitty records, maybe you would calm down and not be such terrible pieces of shit.”

No shit, huh? What sort of an adolesence leads to this kind of adult life? Were they raised in a basement, home schooled and never allowed outside or to have friends? These people are FUCKED UP!

In the years 2001 through 2007, I started saying “Republicans: The Party of Other People’s Personal Responsibility.”  Back then, it was just about the lack of response to their own deficit creation and their lack of response to internal ethics matters.  Yet, they kept on referring to themselves as the party of personal responsibility.

I’ve since come to realize that there’s a steady understanding of what kind of personal responsibility Republicans are into supporting, the kind that they don’t think will ever really apply to them.  “Responsibility for the results of having sex outside of marriage?  That’ll never apply to me.”  “Responsibility for rincing out empties and putting them in a recycling bin?  That is tyranny!”

Christ. If they want to act out all their dirty sex worker/abortionist fantasies, they should do it at home, with consenting partners and safe words. Dragging non-consenting actual clinic workers into their role play is just not cool.

Completely Off Topic News:

- http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/02/us-nobel-wikileaks-idUSTRE7115QP20110202?pageNumber=2

Wikileaks has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

Perhaps Obama can give them his - it’s not as if he’s ever used the thing…

So this is pretty superficial & besides the point, but what’s in the unofficial Pandagon style guide that says “fucking” can be spelled out in the main text, but in the headlines, asterisk it out? Does it help keep the blog off of nanny software/ RSS hitlists or something?

It’s just, there’s two f*ckings in a row, and I was like, hey that’s strange.

So, something like Frankie Boyle’s line here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPEDpLFFKf0

When writing about the conservatrons, it’s difficult NOT to use ‘fucking’.

Nobel nominations are pretty meaningless.  All you need to get one is one connected person with a political axe to grind.  George W. Bush was nominated for one after he started the Iraq War, for fuck’s sake.

There’s a serious problem with the subject:  Finding someone sober to fuck a conservative!

As someone mentioned in another thread the other day, along with the typical woman-hating prudishness, this is all wrapped up in conservative ideas of reward and punishment. Not getting an STD and avoiding unwanted pregnancies is their “reward” for making “tough choices”. These things belong to *them*. The idea that someone somewhere could enjoy themselves and not suffer life altering consequences, or avail themselves of services that mitigate the damage of those consequences, cheapens their decision not to have any fun. How dare they?

This is also why conservatives see drug abuse as a moral issue rather than looking at it from the more sensible public health standpoint.

If basic good health and freedom to live how one chooses are available to everyone, what makes conservatives special?

“There seems to be a genuine dislike, and dare I say, hatred, towards anyone that isn’t in lockstep with the narrative presented here. Y’all are some angry mother fuckers on here.”

Cool story, bro.

You seem concerned, EMR1976.

“I think most people, if they think about it, agree with me.  Lila Rose is hoping that a knee-jerk hatred of young women and sex workers will override reason and the basic rights of humans here.”

Unfortunately, those people do exist. This has already been posted on Facebook by several conservative acquaintances. And I’ve discussed it with a few of them. All of them ignore anything I say about young girls forced into prostitution needing care, and rant on about how horrible it is that 14 yr olds can get abortions. And it always devolves into me being told I’m a horrible christian(yes, I was raised in a very strict Catholic family and only grew up around super! catholic!/christian! people!).

EMR always seems “concerned”—which is why they’re called “concern trolls”—but concerned, in a kinda mastabutory way.

Like most conservatives, who seem to get excited by the unlikeliest material, what normal people are repulsed by.

Like women in comas, 12 year-old girls raped through incest and forced to give birth, and so on and so forth.

EMR1976,
Are you saying she should have withheld information that she had an ethical responsibility to share with a patient?
Then she would have been doing something wrong. As a medical professional she’s not supposed to decide which accurate information the patient is entitled to receive based on her judgement of the patient’s character. That’s the difference between PP and those bogus, lying, exploitive, agenda driven Crisis Pregnancy Centers. Planned Parenthood has ethical obligations to the medical profession, their patients as well as the legal system.

EMR - I can’t speak for everyone here, but I have several relatives who are pro-life to one degree or another. If I run angry, it’s because they are consistently, willfully, blind to those whose circumstances are not like their own. They can only see their own lives, and any deviation from their lives must be because of the poor choices of other people. Pregnant and a teenager? Must be rebellion and choosing sex too young. If you ran away from home, it can’t possibly be because you had good reason to. Being open and honest with your parents is always a good idea (an idea one uncle holds to, despite the fact that his own mother’s best friend was shot by her father because she got pregnant - by him). Prostitution is proof of the moral degeneracy of the prostitute (rather than say her desperation).

All the information they need to see the lousy results their preferred policies would have in the real world is right in front of them and they won’t see it, can’t see it - will do anything to avoid seeing it. Like arguing that pregnancy isn’t that hazardous in front of one of my aunts who had a crash C-section, the kind with a doctor, a scalpel and no anesthesia. Or that parents who don’t want children will learn to love them (in front of my mother, when my grandmother told her practically daily that having my mother ruined her life). My aunt and my mother are both strongly pro-choice - fancy that!

I don’t know why they’re so hell-bent on being ignorant. Laughing with and at Amanda’s satire helps keep me from turning every family reunion into a pitched battle. And if you don’t recognize satire and exaggerations, I can’t help you.

Shorter EMR.

I expect better at this point, really.

@EMR1976

Maybe I’ll stop being angry when people stop trying to take away my goddamn human rights in order to force me to have babies I don’t want. Seriously, these people have enough influence that Congress just proposed a bill that attempts to curtail private coverage for abortion and stop me from using my own money in my own health savings bank account to pay for an abortion. Excuse me? Where the fuck is a 20-year-old supporting herself through college supposed to get $500-$900 (an amount that ranges from “what my rent costs each month” to “I don’t even make that much money in a month”)? What if they close down Planned Parenthood, one of the few organizations that might help me if I had nowhere else to go? I guess I just shouldn’t have sex because I’m SOL if my contraception fails, right? It’s easy to stay calm and downplay a horrific situation that could never happen to you. I hate these people because they’re trying to ruin my life, and I think it’s a pretty righteous anger.

Hey, EMR: Prove that conservatives that don’t want to allow abortion under any circumstances are in the minority. More importantly, though, prove that it is any of social conservative’s business who gets to have an abortion and who doesn’t.

If you end up pregnant, first, it’s your fault. Not anyone elses.

Oh really? Because women reproduce by parthenogenesis. I see.

EMR - the stuff I object to isn’t nearly so much a minority as you seem to think. Parental notification laws, for example? Lots and lots of people seem to think those are a good idea, when in actuality, they suck.

If your view of the morality of abortion is like mine, (I have zip moral problem with it at the start, but get dicier and dicier as the pregnancy progresses), then you should be in favor of few-to-no abortion restrictions and public funding. You know why? Because the single biggest effect of every abortion restriction or funding cut is to make the average gestation time before the women who want them can get them longer. 24-hour waiting period? Duh. Also, it takes women who work longer to get two days off than one. Parental notification? Can literally make the wait indefinite - how do you certify that the parent has been notified? What if you can’t reach one? Where’s the judge to provide the exemption and how long do you have to wait to see hir? Can’t get it covered by your insurance (say, if your insurance is Medicaid) - how long will it take you to come up with the money? Rape exemptions? How do you provide proof of rape? Police report? You either have to leave a truck-sized hole for that kind of exemption, or you’re screwing a lot of women who absolutely did not get pregnant because it was their own fault.

Every last one of them makes abortions take place later in the pregnancy. Every last one of them is going to screw over people in horrible circumstances. And lots of “moderates” fancy them highly.

For the record, EMR, she didn’t tell anybody how to break the law.  It’s called a JUDICIAL bypass.  What do you think that means?  It means you go in front of a JUDGE in order to present your case as to why you should be allowed to proceed with an abortion without a legal guardian being made aware.  What she told him was perfectly legal.  The only consideration would be one listed above, in that a better move would have been to tell him that she will give that information to whatever woman needs it personally, not to him.

On another note.  Pimp?  Really?  What kind of world do this idiots live in that a pimp is going to present to a medical clinic asking for ways to “help” his chattel?

In terms of ethical considerations, I don’t see why potential anything trumps actuality.  I really don’t.  Even if the potential of my giving a kidney or lung or lobe of my liver or bone marrow to someone means that their life is saved, I am not obligated or legally required to give those up to that person.  It’s my CHOICE if I want to do so.  I won’t get a group of conservative nutjobs congregating on my lawn with pictures of jaundiced individuals dying slowly due to lack of organs yelling at me until I submit.

It’s really hard to take seriously even a glancing claim to following MLK Jr from someone who points to his letter from the Framingham Jail.

So the Planned Parenthood worker is saying that the supposed teenage prostitutes could get judicial bypass laws to get abortions without their parents’ consent, and that’s abetting child prostitution? Gee, that would be a nice conversation to have with dear old Mom and Dad. “Hi, guys. I got pregnant when I was forced to prostitute myself every day. Apparently, you didn’t care, because you never asked where I was all night. Can I have an abortion now?” If there’s anyone who should get a judicial bypass, it’s that girl.

EMR, how did the woman in this video give them ways to “circumvent” the law?  What specifically are you referring to?  You give no specifics, since you have none.  The woman in the video told them the legal channels for obtaining birth control, STD care, and abortion.  Judicial bypass is a right established by the Supreme Court.  Informing someone of their rights is not illegal, and in fact is the duty of medical professionals.

Also, EMR, why would I be friends with a “pro-lifer”?  That’s like asking a person of color to be friends with a racist.  I know anti-choice people, definitely.  I’m from Texas and know more than my fair share of conservative Christians.  They fall into one of two categories, sometimes both: incredibly ignorant or really sexist.  Being “pro-life” is consistent with being anti-gay and, in my experience, thinking racism is awesome.

Ah, saw your comment at #25.  You’re just sexist and anti-sex.  That’s why I said that folks like you, EMR, need to stop scolding and start fucking.  The pent-up sexual energy is making you hateful towards people who are actually out there having fun.  Stop being so resentful and punishing.  You’re free not to be an asshole.  A side benefit is that not being a fuckwad makes it easier to get laid, meaning you have even less reason to be angry with young women for fucking someone that’s not you.

Oh, but Amanda, they aren’t the same at all because racists and anti-gay people is about people’s rights and being pro-life is about taking responsibility and precious human life.  (eye-roll)

II’m trying to decide if EMR is serious (and so naive, wholy non-empathic, unself-examined and immature; or callus beyond loathsome)  or a joke.

<blockquote>Nobel nominations are pretty meaningless.  All you need to get one is one connected person with a political axe to grind.  George W. Bush was nominated for one after he started the Iraq War, for fuck’s sake.

Comment #13: keshmeshi <blockquote>

No he wasn’t. 
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nobel.asp

EMR,
Speedbudget @#28 and Amanda @#33 beat me to it.

I would like to address the comments that the PP worker should have declined to answer his question with some form of “Have the young woman ask us.”
This might seem like a good idea especially if the patient is asking about care for underage girls but you’re wading into murky territory. First even disgusting a-holes get access to accurate information. Answering his questions honestly then reporting him is better than giving him the run around. What if he does have access to underage girls? It’s better if they get the information they need even if it is second hand from a sexual predator. Then if they do decide to go to the clinic or seek Judicial Bypass they have access to resources that could help. First hand knowledge is always better but word of mouth about a clinic’s services and practices is a large part of getting women, especially young women, in the door.

In fairness to EMR, I don’t doubt that there are SOME pro-lifers, etc. who hold those beliefs for genuine reasons, and those beliefs are not the product of their own personal short-comings. Generally I shy away from those sort of accusations, as it smacks of “Ha! you’re ugly! Therefore your arguments don’t matter and I won’t address them!”  However, given EMR’s proceeding comments, it does not appear he is one of the genuine types.

“If you end up pregnant, first, it’s your fault. Not anyone elses.”

Either EMR just can’t keep it consistent or he assumes that nobody here is paying attention to the blantant hypocrisy from his posting a few days back on another discussion thread:

“Personal accountability from both men and woman would probably almost wipe this issue out. Unfortunately, we have a lot of fucking retards in our society that haven’t figured out that dick + vagina = baby…....and its supposed to.” 

So EMR goes from dontcha know it takes a man and a woman to make a pregnancy to it’s all your fault for fucking you stupid b***h. 

The bottom line is that EMR is both anti-sex and a misogynist who is absolutely oozing with male privilege.  That he is so willing to disregard the reality that sometimes birth control fails, and that many hetero relationships involve huge power imbalances that often leaves women vulnerable to unprotected sex is really just not suprising.  Really EMR, not all women have the power and resources to just cross their legs and say no to sex, get out of your protected little bubble of suburban bliss and get a clue.  And as for those women who do have pregnancies from failed birth control, it happens, and it doesn’t make them a slut or stupid or incautious.  And as for any woman doesn’t use birth control, why aren’t you as willing to shame the male partner for not using a condom himself?  If it takes both dick and vagina why are you only going after the vagina part of the equation with your shame on you offensive?

Oh God, if she edited your “debate” methinks it would sound like when they made a tape of a dude’s voice in the movie Sneakers to break into a building.  My name is Werner Brandes. My voice is my passport. Verify me. I don’t even want to hazard a guess as to what she’d have made you say.

re: pro-life friends, I don’t have a questionnaire that I hand potential friends to find out their political leanings, but I suppose I may know some pro-lifers (although most of my friends are very liberal, so probably not). But I used to be friends with a bunch of Bible thumpers in high school who would berate me for being pro choice, so I certainly wouldn’t go out of my way to deal with that again. These are the same people who said that babies in Africa or Asia who had never heard of Jesus would automatically go to Hell, so having a reasoned debate with them wasn’t really going to happen anyway. But I digress. I don’t know where all my friends stand on this issue, but if one was the kind of person who was picketing outside of Planned Parenthood, yes, I would absolutely end the friendship.

On a similar note, I would not date with someone who was pro-life. Or ever sleep with one of them. Gross.

And as for those women who do have pregnancies from failed birth control, it happens, and it doesn’t make them a slut or stupid or incautious.  And as for any woman doesn’t use birth control, why aren’t you as willing to shame the male partner for not using a condom himself?

Lolagirl,
I’m glad you addressed how women who don’t use bc get unfairly shamed. So do women who get labeled a Slutty McSlut Slut. But it doesn’t matter if she is promiscuous or doesn’t use bc.  EMR and his ilk like to separate out “deserving” and “undeserving” women because they don’t accept that ALL women are human beings deserving of rights and care. Getting into a “not all women are sluts” argument with anti-choicers is like getting into a “not all black people are criminals” argument with a racist. Their denial of a group’s basic humanity is the problem. Not the perceived behavior of the group.

Shorter Amanda:

Their kink is not OK. Because at this point it’s pretty clear that’s what it is, and (like so many conservatives) they really haven’t grasped the idea that everyone in a scene has to consent.

@EMR

So if I fall in the 1%-3% that have a contraceptive failure using my method, that is somehow morally blameworthy? Because 9 months of hell followed by the pain of childbirth, followed by either 18 years of servitude or a lifetime of wondering what happened to my child is a fair punishment for accidentally taking a pill an hour late? Or for having the flu and vomiting up a pill I faithfully took? Or any number of the minor contraceptive failures that could result in a pregnancy? I knew it. You’re just jealous of young people’s and/or women’s sex lives. Fuck off, perv.

Yes, I think the government should pay for abortions because human rights you have to purchase are human rights for the rich only, and I don’t get to opt out of subsidizing CAFOs or the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (which both involve killing beings I find more valuable than fetus-parasites). But right now, the fight is whether I can use my OWN money and my own PRIVATE health insurance to pay for abortion. Regardless of *who* pays for the abortion, someone is going to have to pay for prenatal care, childbirth, and oh yeah, THE NEW HELPLESS UNWANTED HUMAN LIFE that is the result of this process. You want to adopt my unwanted kid and take on the boatload of expenses I can’t afford? Do you want your welfare bill to go way up? I bet that when the sacrifice comes out of your pocket instead of my vagina you might change your tune.

I think you need to stop worrying about my decisions, which are made on the basis of the relative effectiveness rates compared to the side effects of different forms of contraceptions, but are also made with the knowledge that abortion is legal and there is a recourse if they fail. I have no problem with emphasizing the importance of contraception, but you for some reason assume that my youth and gender mean I don’t pay attention to reason or evidence. It must be nice to pretend that anger can’t ever be founded on valid reasons, and instead must signify a failing of the person who feels passionately about their own rights - it allows you to preserve your privilege and dismiss oppressed groups easily enough.

shakahi,

My question to EMR about not slut shaming the male part of the equation was intended as more of a rhetorical devlce than anything else.  It’s ridiculous that women are treated as gatekeepers of the great V while men are given a free pass to slut it up all they want with the boys will be boys hall pass.  This becomes even more the case whenever a pregnancy results from any given sexual encounter, because the slut should have known better while the poor schmuck of a guy was just doing what he’s biologically and socially programmed to do.

Honestly, I think that both sexes should be equally entitled to enjoy and explore their sexuality without anyone wagging fingers in reproach at them for not doing it according to god’s way (you know, while married and missionary-like.)  I’m still figuring out where I stand on the sex work thing, but regardless of how the sex is being had I emphatically agree with you and Amanda that every women is still entitled to her humanity, and getting treatment for STDs, birth control, and access to abortions should be included as a basic part of that premise.

@38: Even beyond that, it’s not the job of the healthcare provider, and especially not of Planned Parenthood to make value judgments of their clients. Because once you go there, prejudices on the basis of race, class, and sexual orientation start getting in the way of the services. The service provider’s job isn’t to evaluate a person’s character and worth as criteria for providing service. The service provider’s job is to provide the information and medical services to anyone who walks in the door asking for it.

Noticeably absent from Libertairan’s schadenfreude is the FBI probe into Lila Rose and her organization.

Congratulations of getting a foul called on a game that you’ve lost.

“hat’s why I said that folks like you, EMR, need to stop scolding and start fucking. “

amanda, no! think of the poor person who’d end up having sex with him. that’s just cruel.

EMR: i feel like you are a total fake, because you cannot be an adult and literally not acknowledge reality to this degree.

“If you end up pregnant, first, it’s your fault. Not anyone elses.” wow. how stupid are you?

people can get pregnant as a result of rape. please give a clear, explicit answer as to whose fault that is. now.

also, you sit here and say have sex, just be careful? you’ve clearly never had a sexual relationship in your life…or watched tv with advertising…because you should be clever enough to know NO protection is 100% effective. so if you’re in that 1% of pill failures, please explain to me, step by step, how that is the pregnant woman’s fault.

if you’re going to write things, they need to have some basis in reality in logic, or you really shouldn’t waste everyone’s time writing them. so answer the questions or gtfo.

NOT TO MENTION: no human on the planet has the ability to choose whether to get knocked up or not at any particular point. how is biology someone’s “fault”? are you even from this planet? were you raised by wolves?

If you end up pregnant, first, it’s your fault. Not anyone elses. No one else is “ruining your life.” If you end up in that situation, you’ve ruined your own life. Own your decisions and behavior. With all the different ways to avoid that situation, it’s hard to get sympathy from people.

Really EMR?  Because let’s look at the various ways in which one could get pregnant:
1. Rape—obviously, the fault of the rapist.
2. Contraceptive sabotage (a form of abuse)—see above, but substitute “saboteur.”  This is when a woman’s partner prevents her from taking her birth control or pokes holes in condoms because he sees pregnancy as a form of control.  Therefore, pretty much all of the “pill kills” campaign types and all of the “defund PP” types are contraceptive saboteurs. 
3. Ordinary birth control failure—many forms of birth control (pill/patch/ring/shot/a condom every time) are about 99% effective if used perfectly.  So there’s still that 1%.  I’ve also talked to people who have had NuvaRings fall out (luckily, she figured out what had happened and took EC), or have thrown up on the pill.  Broken condoms also fall into this category.  This is no one’s fault. 
4. Inability to afford one’s birth control.  Easy to fall into this category when one is poor (particularly rural-poor), there’s no Planned Parenthood clinic nearby (which will be the case for more people if PP is defunded), and one has no insurance.  And yes, condoms are cheaper, but they still cost something, and I can definitely see someone deciding to forego condoms if it means buying more food, or diapers, baby formula, gas for the car, or some other thing.  Whose fault is this?  Depends on who you ask.  It’s certainly not the woman’s fault alone though if she gets pregnant—there needs to be a man somewhere (unless she uses sperm donation, but sperm donor pregnancies are by definition planned and don’t typically result in abortions).

Now, this video is likely to have been heavily edited, but I don’t think the employee said anything unethical in this clip. What does bother me is that she appears at one point to be suggesting that IUDs would be a good birth control option for these ‘prostitutes’. IUDs are fantastic because they don’t require daily maintenance, but they’re like little conduits that draw STIs up through the cervix, into the uterus. It’s a great way to make sure your gonorrhea or chlamydia gives you PID straightaway, instead of in a few years. To suggest an IUD for sex workers who are unlikely to be able to negotiate condom use with their clients struck me as irresponsible.

Then again, she may just have been talking on auto-pilot while taking in the absurdity of the supposed pimp and noting details for her report to her supervisor.

EMR:  If you think you agree with parental notification laws, you’re either blindered or a real asshole. The difference between an abortion and an earring, among other things, is that essentially no parents will kill you, throw you out of the house, break your bones, take you out of school, have you committed to an abusive “treatment” facility blah blah blah for considering getting an ear pierced. They’ve been known to do any of those things to young women in a position to need an abortion. And you have judges who simply refuse applications for judicial bypass or (Priscilla Owens, q.v.) write scathing opinions contending that allowing judicial bypass would allow young women to escape the rightful consequences of their actions.

Let me paraphrase your last section just to suggest how offensive it is.

Let me lay this out: This is the scenario you are explaining to me: “Damnit, I walked next to a busy street, and now I’m racked up, and I don’t want to be a cripple! Fuck I’m angry! Now, society should fucking pay for my surgery and rehab!”

Is that basically it? You want society to pay for procedures that will take away needed resources from other sick and dying people, based on a decision you have made? Now, I’m not trying to change your mind, but do you *understand* the other point of view, and that having that point of view does not make a person evil, an oppressor, or whatever epithet certain nutters want to throw around?

Dumbass, really?  What are you, twelve or something?

I know I shouldn’t feed the troll, but the only one who isn’t arguing in good faith here is you, EMR.  You are the one who is being inconsistent and not addressing points whenever someone specifically addresses something you’ve written in one of your previous comments. 

I and others here have specifically discussed a myriad of scenarios where a women may find herself pregnant that involve some degree of a woman’s agency having been taken away from her.  You’re clearly intent on sticking to your position that women are sluts for having sex no matter what, and that they deserve whatever they get if they end up pregnant.  Never mind the fact that many of us have pointed out that if you are going go down the slut shaming path that the dick part of the equation should deserve just as much of your scorn and derision as the vagina part. 

Resorting to ad hominen attacks on those who point out your own inconsistencies and prejudices does not give you the upper hand, it only shows you to be the bully that you truly are.  I’m not going to back down because your a man and called me a name, although I’m certain that is exactly what you expect to happen.  I’m also not going to respond in kind to your insults and taunts, but I’m more than happy to engage in polite and informed discourse if you’re ever able to pull yourself together and get down off that pedestal on which you’re so intent on perching yourself.

“You’re incredibly closed-minded. You’re also the chief distributor of impugning other’s motives with no basis to do so. You don’t know me in the slightest. Yet you make idiotic, immature claims about “omg start fucking and stop punishing omg!,” as if you really have the slightest clue about what goes on in my life. The way you try to exchange ideas and/or debate is intellectually lazy. You never address what anyone says. You act like a snotty little shit of a 6th grader and literally…..start ridiculing them. “

Cool story, bro.

#47,
I briefly addressed that in #21 and was just expanding on it because a few comments suggested she should have given him the run around because of who he said he was and the questions he was asking. But your explanation was more comprehensive so thanks.

Yet you make idiotic, immature claims about “omg start fucking and stop punishing omg!,” as if you really have the slightest clue about what goes on in my life.

“Whatever! You don’t know me!”

*slams door and starts playing music real loud*

Do not feed the troll. 

If you say, “I should not be feeding the troll,” you are correct.

Wait, are we not allowed to feed concern trolls rat poison? I thought it was troll trolls (sorry for the middle school double speak) we weren’t supposed to feed.
I didn’t think I was feeding a troll when I responded to EMR’s first comment. But if I was, I am sorry. I’ll try to be more aware in the future.

Exactly, paul. I’ve never in my life heard of a parent running down to the mall with a shotgun and shooting their daughter for getting her ears pierced. But that’s how my grandmother’s best friend died when she was fourteen. Her father caught her at the bus station.

There are a lot more terrible parents out there than you can imagine, EMR. And the notification laws disproportionately affect the girls who have them. Teenagers with good parents will generally tell them about pregnancies on their own (not always, but is anything ever always?). Taking something that’s 90% a good idea, and 10% a completely horrible idea and legally mandating it for 100% is bad law. Parental notification is bad law.

I don’t want to pay for three wars of choice or some rich guy’s tax break, but I still have to.  Why shouldn’t you and your ilk have to pay for a lady’s needed abortion?  What makes you so special?

PRO TIP:  If you have to keep telling people you’re pro choice, chances are you aren’t.  Just FYI.

Another thing with earrings—you can wait until age 18 with out and severe negative consequences. There is a short time frame for an abortion.

EMR,
What? I was told you were a troll and not to feed you. But since Amanda responded to you and hasn’t booted you I’m going to take that as a go ahead.

Shakahi….
Withold medical info? Na. But tell the guy ways to break the law to get 14 year old’s abortions? No way. That’s a whole different ballpark. Didn’t need to do that. That was the bad part of the video. And most would agree with me. The video makes her appear to be complicit in aiding a child prostitution ring.

She didn’t tell him how to break the law. She correctly informed him about a legal process called Judicial Bypass. That’s not illegal. It’s a right that an underage girl has. That’s not circumventing the law. That’s actually exercising a right she has.

The PP worker isn’t complicit because she answered medical questions she has an ethical obligation to answer truthfully. Then she reported him to her supervisors who reported him to the authorities as per PP SOP and the law.
She doesn’t get to decide which information he gets. Please see #21 and #47.

Conservatives always believe that there is an ethical obligation of some sort to lie.

I know I shouldn’t feed the troll, but medical resources are finite. In Arizona right now some people are dying because other people got hit by cars and weren’t insured. Oh, perhaps EMR just means “fetus” when he’s worrying about “ending a human life”.

EMR, it’s not ending a human life to have an abortion. Stop that passive aggressive shit.

I don’t really want wars either. Unfortunately, war is a fact of life.

So is unwanted pregnancy.

People do crazy shit. Sometimes we have to kill them.

Even assuming the Iraq war had something to do with anything related to anyone’s national security (which is absolutely fucking false), how is this different from abortion?  Sometimes bad things happen and people make the choice to deal with it.

Society has deemed this cause worthy of public funding. With abortion, that’s not the case.

So because the majority of people are hypocritical and ignorant, that makes a double standard ok?

How typical of you EMR, never actually addressing points raised by commenters here and then resorting to name calling and poop flinging when people refuse to stoop to your level.

Btw, I actually do have a real life outside of the world of Pandagon, hence my not hanging around all day long yesterday to see if you would bother to respond to my last comment.

Besides, I thought all the real men were huddled around their flat screens yesterday for the big football thing.  Since you seem so intent on proving your masculinity all over the place I’m downright shocked you bothered to come back here to harass a bunch of people who will never, ever be convinced by your rhetoric and circular shit stirring non-arguments.

“Moral dilemma” = “The NERVE of that bitch, not wanting a kid! I’ll show her what’s good for her!”

AMIRITE, folks?

I love how it’s only the “illegal immigrants” clogging up the ER in his world.  There are 47 million DOCUMENTED people in this country without insurance.  They count for 20% of ER visits.  If you want to stop people clogging up the ER, enact some sort of universal health care.  And quit making racist assumptions about who is or is not using the ER.

And whether or not we “need” to be in the three wars of choice we are currently in is something definitely up for debate.  That doesn’t stop them from getting funded.  Nor do the tax breaks for the immensely rich not get funded.  Nor do extra engines for planes that the Pentagon has specifically said they don’t need.  All of these are choices made FOR US, the taxpayers, by Congress.  I’m sure lots of people object to funding environmental research.  Yet they still get paid for.  What makes abortion so damn special that the between 80 and 90 women a year on Medicaid who want to avail themselves of the service are not allowed to?

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