They do so love their martyrdom.

It’s this sort of thing that makes me think we’re heading towards a one party system, or that we’re sort of there already.

Well, you can’t challenge them on their lies, because then the media might start to think that what they’re saying isn’t true, which might make them wonder what other things the Republicans are telling them that are not true, and then where will we be?

“der schwarze Führer”

...now that’s funny.  Of course, it would be a hell of a lot funnier if the Reichwing didn’t already think that of The Scary Black Dude and his incomprehensible Awesome Negrosity…

BTW, if anyone has not seen Leni Riefenstahl’s “classic” Triumph of the Will, I highly recommend watching it at least once.  Not because it’s good in a moral sense (it’s not), or good in a political sense (it’s not), or because it’s artistic (it is), but because it’s interesting documentation of the beginning phases of political madness.

It was filmed in 1934, a year after Paul Von Hindenburg’s death left Adolph Hitler de facto dictator of Germany, just a few weeks after the Nazi Party purge known as The Night of the Long Knives when Hitler had gained a death grip on the political realm in Germany, but several years before the true horrors of German Fascism were really revealed.

Watching it, with the knowledge of what came years afterward, it’s fascinating to see just how mundane and commonplace it all seems.  The Nazi Party rally documented in the filom doesn’t seem too different from a political convention here, for example.  It’s easy to see how people could be sucked into allegiance to what seemed at the time was good old-fashioned (German) patriotism — harmless at worst, and inspiring at best.

There is very little overt militarism, but it is a subtext for everything.  Watching the film (which can be downloaded via several Bittorrents, and here is a YouTube link: Triumph des Willens), you get a sense of the subtle and scary nature of how fear and “righteous hatred” can lead people to do incredibly horrific things…

(BTW, if some asshole wingnut troll believes I am in favor of the ideas presented in the film, you are badly mistaken.  But I am a big believer in using primary sources when available, and allowing people to see the unvarnished truth, good and bad, so they are more informed...)

The teeming hordes of jackbooted Obama thugs

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no… *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

Once again, the projection displayed is stunning.  Obama volunteers attempt to dispel misinformation by presenting counter-arguments, and are accused of wanting to suppress free speech.  Several commenters even referred to the campaign as “censorship.” Cue Inigo Montoya.

BTW, if anyone has not seen Leni Riefenstahl’s “classic” Triumph of the Will, I highly recommend watching it at least once.  Not because it’s good in a moral sense (it’s not), or good in a political sense (it’s not), or because it’s artistic (it is), but because it’s interesting documentation of the beginning phases of political madness.

As a student of history and a WWII buff, that is one of the DVDs sitting in my personal collection. 

One scene I recall is seeing how one of the leaders of the National Labor Service organization had eyes which looked like he drank too much of the Nazi kool-aid....  Looked as if he was a wide-eyed drone predisposed to believing what his beloved “fuehrer” said about anyone, any idea, and anything. 

I also don’t, for a second, believe Leni Riefenstahl’s BS that she wasn’t a Nazi...or believed in their ideology not only due to the fact she was allowed so much access to Hitler’s inner circle....but also the fact that the Nazi antisemitism, racism, and homophobia were a culmination of Germanic and European hatreds which dated back at least several hundred years...if not longer. 

Moreover, there was a great deal of participation of German women in Nazi organizations as Claudia Koontz’s book “Mothers in the Fatherland” shows.  While the Nazi social order was extremely patriarchal.....some women were not only given high leadership positions to mobilize the participation of German women in that order....many of them also participated in the oppression and brutalization of others as their participation as Concentration Camp guards shows.

I liked (and was appalled) seeing National Labor Service members marching like soldiers and wielding shovels as if they were rifles (I’m not kidding).  Really weird. 

(Part of me could imagine wingnuts wielding keyboards the same way...)

You shouldn’t make jokes about this kind of thing! My own great-uncle was struck by a strongly worded argument from the Luftwaffe in 1941 and he suffered from paralipsis for the rest of his life.

MissPrism wins the thread!

Much better than my pointing out the myth that the Wehrmacht and SS were not, in fact, the spearheads of the Nazi invasions.  It was, in fact, the Reichspost.

Bad grammar on my part; should have read “Much better than my pointing out the myth that the Wehrmacht and SS were the spearheads of the Nazi invasions.  It was, in fact, the Reichspost. “

Bad grammar on my part

Grammar Nazi.

Triumph of the Will is a fantastic (in the fullest sense of the word) film which everyone should see.  I periodically show it to my Sunday school classes because of the way the Nazis made use of religious imagery and ritual. 

Most of these were pointed out to me by my wife, who is German, and an ordained minister. I am frankly not smart enough to have spotted them all by myself.

What is especially alarming is the similarity between the Nuremburg rallies and American right wing political events today, especially since W. Bush completed the evangelical takeover of the GOP.

“It was, in fact, the Reichspost.”

...you mean The Postman Always Rings Twice, with a luger in his hand?…

(Part of me could imagine wingnuts wielding keyboards the same way...)

Those keyboards better not be the flimsy kinds which commonly are included with most desktop personal computers today(PC and Mac).......unless they want to risk the high possibility of having a non-functional keyboard....something that won’t be terribly useful in an fierce online war.....

I think the cheetos-stains will take down the impression a bit, alas.

To further derail the thread, do you think this will mean the trains will start to run on time?

I would just like to point out that apparently the only time the wingnuts give Obama any credit for his community organization skills is when they’re accusing him of mobilizing the hordes to “censor” idiots like Feddrosso.

Why it’s almost as if Obama were setting up some sort of “truth squad” to rebut “false attacks, vile rumors and smears” against their candidate. Perhaps they will not allow those on the left and in the media to smear a woman who has always served <strikel>her</strike> his constituents with honor. They might even know the truth and are committed to ensuring it as well.”

wait… how is THIS censorship but arresting journalists covering protests of the republican convention ISN’T censorship???

damn, i wish i was a republican so i could randomly re-define words so that i am always right!

(oh, i am soooooooooo punny...)

as an aside… exholt, something in the way that you worded your post confused me. from what i can tell in my own studies of german history, the nazi party is a direct result of WWI, whici is essentially a direct of result of the 30 years war (1618-1648) which ravaged germany and caused much of its later nationalism (because germans were sick of the rest of europe fighting all their wars in germany, or rather, the germanies) and anti-french sentiments. what is your take on it? you say
“....but also the fact that the Nazi antisemitism, racism, and homophobia were a culmination of Germanic and European hatreds which dated back at least several hundred years...if not longer”,
but i am confused as to what you MEAN by it. i THINK you mean roughly what i mean? that when germany finally had some power with which to strike back at those who had treated her badly centuries earlier, she went to it with a vengance? (wait, not SHE, HE, it’s the FATHERLAND lol). if not, what did you mean? (sorry for the thread jack, i haven’t been able to talk about this particular subject with anyone for almost year, since i finished all my political science classes, and its one of my favorite topics)

“....but also the fact that the Nazi antisemitism, racism, and homophobia were a culmination of Germanic and European hatreds which dated back at least several hundred years...if not longer”,
but i am confused as to what you MEAN by it.

European antisemitism from what I remembered from studying it in high school and college could be traced back to at least the middle ages when Jewish groups in various parts of Europe were subjected to various discriminatory measures, persecutions, and killings(pogroms) because of their being “othered” by virtue of their religious/cultural status.  Those discriminatory measures were one factor in the later stereotype of Jews being “greedy moneylenders”.....while forgetting the fact that discriminatory measures meant they were prohibited from pursuing other occupations. 

If one really wanted to go all out...it could be traced back to late antiquity when Jews were held by an increasingly Christian-dominated world as responsible for Jesus’ death....and thus should be treated with deserving scorn and hatred.  Considering how increasingly powerful and dominant Christianity was from late antiquity until the age of enlightenment in the 18th century, being non-Christian was enough to be harshly “othered” by Christian-dominated Europe.  Labeling Jews “Christ-killers” gave their Christian persecutors more self-justification to discriminate, persecute, and murder them with no hesitations/guilt. 

Though the Protestant reformation started the undermining of the previously unquestioned dominance of the Catholic Church and the 18th Century Enlightenment did the same with the previous unquestioning acceptance of religious dogma, the old antisemitism continued.

In fact, George L. Mosse actually traces the origins of modern European racism and antisemitism to the 18th Century Enlightenment and religious revival in his book “Toward The Final Solution: A History of European Racism.” If you have not read it, I strongly recommend it as a good overview of how European Racism and antisemitism developed from that period till the rise of Nazism and its “Final Solution”.

exholt:

If one really wanted to go all out...it could be traced back to late antiquity when Jews were held by an increasingly Christian-dominated world as responsible for Jesus’ death....and thus should be treated with deserving scorn and hatred. Considering how increasingly powerful and dominant Christianity was from late antiquity until the age of enlightenment in the 18th century, being non-Christian was enough to be harshly “othered” by Christian-dominated Europe. Labeling Jews “Christ-killers” gave their Christian persecutors more self-justification to discriminate, persecute, and murder them with no hesitations/guilt.

Actually, it predates even that. Even the pre-Christian Romans didn’t much care for the Jews, because they were one of the few subject peoples who refused to accept the Roman pantheon, or at least incorporate it into their own native religious tradition.

Actually, it predates even that. Even the pre-Christian Romans didn’t much care for the Jews, because they were one of the few subject peoples who refused to accept the Roman pantheon, or at least incorporate it into their own native religious tradition.

You do have a point though that is somewhat qualified by my impressions that the true virulence of antisemitism didn’t really take hold until the “Christ-killer” meme took hold during late antiquity. 

That is not much better, however, than Roman hatred of the Jewish people for resisting their occupation of their area....though I recalled reading about similar Roman hatreds of the Carthaginians, Parthians, Gauls, etc for their resistance to Roman imperial expansion.

ah-ha! now i understand what you meant

anti-semitism has always struck me as one of the stupider side-effects of Christianity: Jesus was JEWISH.

i had gathered the impression that part of the early Roman “hatred” of Jews was based on Jewish rebellion the the lack of worship of the Roman emperor by jews. also, because Jewish law forced jews to other THEMSELVES, and until recently xenophobia was survival trait… and the whole thing just grew and grew over the centuries. not helped by the push by Spain to get rid of all the Sephardic jews, leading to “secret jews” everywhere, and not helped by eastern european nobility using jews as tax collectors in a particularly brutal fashion, etc…

i have read PARTS of “Toward the Final Solution” for various classes; i have never sat down and read it in its entirety. good idea, and i will do that soon.

thank you!

To further derail the thread, do you think this will mean the trains will start to run on time?

I feel obligated to point out that the Italian Fascists made the trains run on time by altering the arrival and departure schedules to match the trains’ actual arrival and departure times.