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Post-Racial My Black Ass

imageWhen you go to an amusement park, you generally don’t expect to have a moment more meaningful than figuring out how many times a roller coaster runs in an hour.  Yesterday, I was at Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio.  Having finished a thoroughly underwhelming meal, I was waiting outside of the restaurant.  A bench with four young black men, all in their late teens and early twenties, was sitting on a bench nearby.  The word “nigger” tuned me into their conversation.

One of them, tall, lanky and light-skinned, was describing what it felt like when a teacher called him “nigger”.  He was angry, of course, but he kept describing his frustration and embarrassment, which, more than anything else, defined his reaction.  He didn’t know what to do - if he got angry, he would get in trouble or get arrested.  If he walked out, he’d get suspended.  If he said something back, he’d be the one causing trouble. 

Another man in the group talked about how it felt the same even when insulted in that way by someone who wasn’t an authority figure.  The consensus dovetailed with something I’ve seen throughout my life whenever someone’s done something racist to me: a feeling of powerlessness and frustration, coupled with the knowledge that anything you do could potentially feed into that same racist narrative that let your assailant feel justified in being racist to begin with.  The second you’re shoved into a box of racial stereotypes, you become trapped.

Somehow, when conversations like this happen, when a young black man is called “nigger” by a teacher or when he doesn’t receive a callback because his name is Delonte or, as I also saw this weekend, a white woman sees a pitcher in a black family’s apartment and says, “That’s where he drank his Kool-Aid!”, it is never ever asked, “What happened to Barack Obama’s post-racial America?”

Yet when a black person says things like these are racist, or even just stupid, he is accused of undermining “post-racialism”.  You’re a racial “grievance monger”.  And this all comes from a belief - erroneous - that Obama “promised” a post-racial society/presidency.

Obama had the “promise” of a post-racial candidate.  His “post-racial presidency” allegedly irked some black people, despite none of those people saying or referencing “post-racial”.  Where it is admitted that “post-racial” was a phrase applied to Obama’s candidacy rather than generated through it, that idea was forgotten as soon as it provided a new narrative for Obama’s failures.  “Post-racial” was a catchall for the same litany of Things Black People Should Stop Doing, which include alleging racism, being victims of racism and thinking about ways in which people could be racist. 

Post-racialism is already supposed to be on at least version 2.0.  Of course, whatever version we’re on, the only thing post-racialism is supposed to prevent is white people being called racist.  Obama is judged for ever thinking about race, his unspoken promise of post-racialism dashed by the fact that he dared be corrupted by the very thing he was supposed to be dedicated to ending.  Which, as we’ve discussed, is pretty much whatever thing you don’t like about the racial discourse in America. 

Obama’s alleged post-racialism came from a single line at his masterful 2004 Democratic Convention speech: “There’s not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there’s the United States of America.”  This assertion, that we live in an America which is an intermingling of races, is powerfully phrased and evocative of the greatness of the civil rights movement, but at no point did Obama ever say that race didn’t matter anymore, or that the way to deliver on this promise was to artificially declare an end to racism as of August 2004.  The thing keeping racism alive isn’t the contention that racism exists. 

“Post-racial” is the new “nigger”, though more polite.  It is a phrase that demeans and dismisses the concerns of minorities by turning their entire existence into nothing more than a dedication to working towards making white people comfortable.  When President Obama says that it was stupid for a police officer who arrested a black man who was angry over being accused of breaking into his own home, the narrative became about how he was making a mistake, how his bluntness on an issue of race - the seeming promise of post-racialism - was a “betrayal” of it, because the only point of white people being nice enough to elect Obama was for that nigger to march in post-racial lock step.

We live in a country where your health and even life are still at risk if you go to the doctor and you’re the wrong color.  Yet nobody will ever ask these doctors why they haven’t delivered on the promise of post-racialism, because the idea is not about equality or dignity, but instead about those young black men taking that frustration and anger and helplessness and assuming that they’ll stop feeling that way once they stop thinking about race.  Shelby Steele might have a job for you one day, if you play your cards right.

 

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Posted by Jesse Taylor on 09:54 AM • (229) Comments

Pre-Civil War: Know your place
Post-Civil War: Keep to your place
Pre-Civil Rights: Keep to your separate place
Post-Civil Rights: Keep your mouth shut
Post-Racial America: You got a President, now shut up

It’s progress, but not done yet.  What blacks need to do next is be able to quote from the Ricci decision when discussing their oppression.

Comment #1: 3letterjon  on  07/26  at  10:15 AM

My goodness, Jesse… you’re so… well spoken.

What?

:p

Post-racialism is the new “now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not racist, but…”

Post-racialism is the new “some of my best friends are black.”

Post-racialism is the new Day By Day.

But most important, we have a very toxic combination going on here. On the one hand you have the eliminationists: ranging from the birthers who believe that Obama couldn’t be a US citizen on account of his name and the fact that he’s black, and the violent right-wing anti-government groups whose hatred is up to 11 because it’s not just a democrat in the white house, it’s a black man. And this whole “post-racialism” rhetoric is just a smoke screen so that these groups can continue to do what they do and pretend that everything’s fine while they work to undermine our democracy and conspire to do violence to our elected officials.

This stuff is not disconnected—it’s on a continuum of racism that starts with post-racialist apologia and ends in assassination… and understanding this I feel a little less timid when it comes to calling out people on their racist bullshit than I’ve been in the past.

Comment #2: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/26  at  10:19 AM

My privilege is showing here, but I had no idea a teacher could call a student the n-word these days and still have a job.  Wow.

Comment #3: A.  on  07/26  at  10:19 AM

Thank you, wonderfully well said.  As a white, male academic who grew up with Jim Crow and segregation in the 1950s and 1960s and now studies racial and ethnic issues, I can categorically say that things are almost infinitely better now than when I was a child.  That does not mean things are “good,” just better.  We live in a profoundly racialized society and are simply incapable of viewing the world except through a racial lens.  Anyone who has spent any time among the relevant statistics, as I have, comes away profoundly depressed at the pernicious impact of race on our society and the damage that it causes so many people.  I am delighted that we have a black man as president and it does show we have come much further than I thought we had (at the beginning of last year I did not think this was possible), but there has also been a spike in hate crimes and membership in racial hate groups has skyrocketed.  Pos-racial my hairy, white, over-educated, hillbilly ass.

Comment #4: DrDick  on  07/26  at  10:23 AM

Shorter corwin:

The only evidence that teacher called a student n****r comes from a n****r, so how can you believe it?

Great logic at work there…

“Still ,it did establish a sense of victim hood and the opportunity for this thought by Jesse.”

...for which Jesse should be grateful, ‘cause there’s no way his life and experiences as a Black Man living in America would have given him enough to say about race without access to an anecdote like that…

And is it just me, or has corwin become even more marginally coherent over the last few days?...

Comment #5: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  10:48 AM

Tim Wise observed a year ago that Barack Obama was accepted by white voters only so far as he was not allowed to talk about race.

And now that Obama has broken that pact—which he never signed on to in the first place—he’s being punished for not knowing to keep his mouth shut.

Comment #6: asdf  on  07/26  at  11:01 AM

A,
If you note , the only evidence the speaker was called “n——-” was <strike>the speaker’s story</strike><u>minority narrative on race relations</u>. Certainly, it flies in the face of <strike>conventional knowledge</strike><u>dominant majority narrative on race relations</u> :i.e. call a student a vile term , lose your job. Still <strike>,it did establish a sense of victim hood</strike><u>it challenged my preferred worldview of the dominant majority narrative on race relations, and since I was there I know it was wrong</u> and the opportunity for this thought by Jesse.
Sometimes Jesse , <strike>one is reminded of Speaker Thomas Reed’s comment on a politician;“He never opens his mouth without detracting from the sum of human knowledge.”</strike><u>I want to thank you and the rest of the Pandagon crew for all that you do to bring a broader perspective to the interwebs.</u>

There.  Significantly more honest and less odious.

Comment #7: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  11:09 AM

Fucking exactly, Mr. Taylor.

Comment #8: Ranylt  on  07/26  at  11:13 AM

If the dominant majority narrative is “call a student a vile term, lose your job,” then some dominant majority doesn’t remember high school. A teacher can say anything to a student, and the chances of a reprimand are very slight. The worst that might happen to a teacher who calls a student a nigger is that the teacher could be asked to take a week off while the story cools down and the complaining parents eventually give up.

Comment #9: asdf  on  07/26  at  11:19 AM

Corwin’s reaction shows why teachers can get away with this.

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  11:19 AM

AJones, given how common this kind of thing is, we would never have even heard about this incident if Gates had not been <strike>a rich man standing on a porch saying “don’t you know who I am?”</strike> an influential man who had a high enough profile and enough connections to keep it from disappearing into the noise.

It seems like some people in America don’t care in the least that these things go on, just as long as they don’t have to hear about them, and increase the chances that someone might look at something like this and determine American society is not as <strike>lily-white</strike> “post racial” as they want to believe it is…

Comment #11: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  11:21 AM

I can’t tell you how frustrated I am with the Gates situation.

Crowley’s own damn police report damns him.  He identified Gates, he believed Gates was the legal resident and he didn’t leave.  He refused to give his name, even though Crowley had done NOTHING wrong at that point, and instead he goaded Gates onto the porch where he could provoke him with handcuffs.

I don’t care if it was testosterone run amok.  I don’t care if Gates was behaving “badly”—either badly for a black person or badly for anyone.  Crowley is a police officer, he is trained as such, and he has a responsibility to behave as such.

The fact that he still hasn’t apologized and that the Cambridge station is backing him offends me mightily.  The fact that they haven’t been ripped to shreds over this is proof that it is a racial incident.

Had Crowley arrested a white woman for being in her own house, had he enticed her out of her home so he could threaten her with handcuffs and then arrest her for protesting, does anyone think an unrepentant officer would not—at the least—be under investigation, if not suspended pending said investigation?

But no.  Instead, we have a huge “post-racial” discussion going on blaming the victim, Prof. Gates, for being an uppity n*gger who doesn’t know how to be properly subservient to the police.

I’m so pissed off.  Why doesn’t Crowley’s own police report get reported?  Why didn’t Crowley LEAVE when he believed he was talking to a resident?  Go ahead and call HUPD from the car.  Stay put to verify, if you want, but a resident isn’t a burglar, and trying to force your own front door open—a front door damaged by a real burglary—isn’t a crime.

Comment #12: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/26  at  11:37 AM

Caren, if it was a white woman she would have been described as “hysterical” and “unruly” and arrested.  Know your place, woman.  No, not that.  I mean, respect the authority of the badge.  Yeah, that’s it.

Comment #13: 3letterjon  on  07/26  at  11:46 AM

Caren, in discussing the incident I had a friend say that Gates was still outside trying to break in when he was arrested!  When I tried to gently correct her she said that was what they said on MSNBC.  People are deeply in denial about this case, and they want to believe the police officer reacted fairly; otherwise their entire world view comes crashing down.

Jesse, thanks for your post.

Comment #14: BetsyD  on  07/26  at  11:51 AM

Caren:Here’s how it should have went down.

Gates:*Pounding on door trying to get it open*

Crowley:Hello sir, anything I can help you with.

Gates:No, my door is just a bit stuck.

Crowley:Could I see some ID?*

Gates:Here you go.

Crowley:(If it has his address, passes it back, if not, writes down the name then passes it back). Would you like me to call a locksmith?

Gates:No thanks, just needs some elbow…poof. It opened.

Crowley:Have a good day sir.

That’s how it should have went down.

Comment #15: Karmakin  on  07/26  at  11:54 AM

Yes, Corwin, black people sit around at amusement parks thinking up emotional responses to false allegations of racism for other people to overhear and disseminate.  It’s the new version of the dozens.

Comment #16: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  12:13 PM

Post-racialism is a particularly stupid form of magical thinking.  Over-privileged white people assume that if they pretend race doesn’t exist then racism suddenly won’t.  Even ignoring the fact that we aren’t post-racial until every last person is on board with the concept, ignoring race leads inevitably to ignoring institutionalized racism.  Its a way for people to opt out of the messy race relations business while reaping the benefits of racism. 

Also I love when a troll shows up to a thread like this and then quietly exits.  Its like having an exhibit A.

Comment #17: semi_factual  on  07/26  at  12:25 PM

Your third paragraph from the end, it feels like there should be more to that last sentence—it just ends on “was to artificially”.  I think I know where you’re going with it, though.

Okay, I live in the most “diverse” area of one of the whitest states in the union (which means we’re only 95% white in my city).  I know that I’m probably guilt of Clueless White Lady Syndrome.  And even frakking clueless me gets that “post-racial” is a lie white people tell ourselves to avoid having to talk or even think about race and how it affects people.

Ack!  *tears hair out*

Comment #18: Karinna A.  on  07/26  at  12:28 PM

People are deeply in denial about this case, and they want to believe the police officer reacted fairly; otherwise their entire world view comes crashing down.

This is always the case in every instance of police misconduct, race aside. People reflexively defend authority. If it’s always the citizen’s fault and never the officer’s, then it couldn’t happen to me.

Comment #19: asdf  on  07/26  at  12:31 PM

If it’s always the citizen’s fault and never the officer’s, then it couldn’t happen to me.

Truer words.

Comment #20: Ranylt  on  07/26  at  12:44 PM

This is always the case in every instance of police misconduct, race aside. People reflexively defend authority. If it’s always the citizen’s fault and never the officer’s, then it couldn’t happen to me.

I had a huge blowup on my Facebook page when I posted a status update that said something to the effect that police are human and occasionally act stupidly. The people who responded negatively, no surprise, were white guys who I went to high school with and was in a frat with in college, all uniformly conservative and deferential to (white) authority. None of them wanted to admit that maybe, just maybe, the cop had stepped over the line and could have defused this situation without being an asshole—no, it’s the citizen’s job to make sure the cop doesn’t feel put upon while he’s expressing his authoritah over you. It’s like they completely forget the whole “serve” part of protect and serve.

Comment #21: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  12:45 PM

I am a pretty conservative guy, racially biased simply because I have gotten huge breaks in life simply because I am a white male, but I cannot go to visit relatives in the Boston Mountains of Arkansas.  I will assure you completely that this is not a postracial nation. It is better than Brazil but it definitely will continue to hold down colored people of all races, creeds, colors and religions.

RE: Cops.

There are no cops that are drafted.  They choose to be cops.  They ARE all adrenaline addicts.
I think this comes from contact sports in hish school where the ones with the biggest rush of adrenaline usually accomplished the most and hormones were fired up in any person of the opposite sex (or same sex if they were homosexual) who came around them so they got the pick of the attractive sex partners.  I don’t know of any studies of this, but my personal experience when having to deal with the police is even though I follow all of the rules of safety around armed thugs (keep both hands open and plain sight,  if you are going to move your hands to get your wallet, explain carefully what you are going to do, always keep the other hand in plain sight and open.  Be deferential, yes sir, no sir and I don’t know sir.) I still get cops who are pushing the limit.  Gee, officer, when I’m caught doing 95 miles per hour in a 45 mph zone, I really do know how fast I was going.  Pushing me by yelling at me that I am endangering other people when it is 3 in the morning and no one is passing us, I think I was safe, yelling at me because one more point in that state and they will seize my car.  It was a speeding beef, why did you need the other six cop cars?  Weren’t you frothing at the mouth when the shift supervisor showed up and I showed him that I had a mini recorder that had every foul epitaph that you used trying to jack up your adrenaline high was on there?
When I refused to stop recording and said I wanted a lawyer now because office number one was screaming about felony violations.  Didn’t it really piss you off when the shift supervisor ordered you to write up a ticket for an illegal lane change? Always keep calm and cool, don’t ever let a cop get his adrenaline going, ever.  Go to a cop bar, listen.  They aren’t bragging about my daughter got straight a’s on her report card. No. It is always “Did you hear about the guys on the west side that got shot at by those (fill any the race or sexual orientation)?
If there is nothing else to fire up the old adrenaline, they will even discuss things that caused a huge adrenaline high 20 years before.

They are all addicts. I truly believe that if we drafted grandmothers at 55 to replace all of the police in the US, the crime rate would drop.  Almost everyone loves their grandmother more than their mother, because she had time to sit and play a silly game for hours, or fix some special treat, who let you know you were special.  Saw a brief application once for a grant to survey hardened criminals in the state pen as to what contact they had with their grandparents and how they felt about them.  Family beef, knock on the door, old lady standing there saying, “Excuse me, may I come in?” works a lot better than having two junkies filled with a need for their adrenaline fix, to beat on the door, rush in and start beating on someone.

Any town or state that does not have an independent citizens commission with authority to suspend, investigate, subpoena, fire and prosecute police officers can officially be regarded as a police state.

Comment #22: less is more  on  07/26  at  01:39 PM

I always find it amusing when white liberals preach this tolerance and colorblindness, and are the same people that will lock their car doors at the sight of a black guy on the road next to them and all live in completely white suburbs. Go get a house on Mt. Vernon Ave in Columbus and then tell me how fucking tolerant you are. Hypocrites.

So, you know where we all live? That’s pretty fucking amazing, Gorgon. Tell me, what neighborhood do I live in? What’s the racial makeup for the five blocks on all sides of the house I’m currently renting? What color am I, for that matter?

I know, I know—you don’t want to let reality get in the way of spewing your hate. I am curious, though—are you alone here or are you just the first wave of stupid about to overrun this thread?

Comment #23: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  01:44 PM

Again, I get so damn frustrated because if people would READ CROWLEY’S REPORT, they would understand that CROWLEY was in the wrong.

I fail to understand why the Cambridge district doesn’t admit it, except that they know they are open and liable and won’t risk it. 

The report states that Crowley believed Gates was the resident, and still kept calling for backup.  Crowley enticed Gates outside, provoked him with handcuffs, arrested him, and then got to go inside for Gates’s cane and snoop around.

Crowley is a piece of shit.  Perhaps he’s not a racist piece of shit, but he does not belong on a police force.  He needs to be disciplined, suspended and retrained at the very least. 

His refusal apologize and his superiors refusing to place any consequences on him is reinforcing police abuse of authority.  Why is this so hard to understand?  Crowley fucked up—his own words prove it.  I believe race was a factor, but even if it wasn’t Crowley was still wrong, and much more ‘wrong’ than Gates could ever be.

You know, had there been a burglary, Gates would have been the VICTIM. 

Why isn’t that fact brought up?  Why didn’t Crowley leave?  Why not just read the damn report and report those facts?  Those facts—CROWLEY’S facts—damn him.

Seriously, I am so frustrated that somehow this case of police abuse of authority has become a way to put a black man in his place and to threaten anyone who “plays the race card”. 

Gates was arrested for being in his own home.  The arrest was so egregious that the DA dropped it immediately.  Now the PD is playing tough b/c they see they’re getting protected by racism!  Talk about privilege.

Comment #24: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/26  at  01:50 PM

After thought, the first time I went to Disneyland, I was shocked because my motel was in a racially mixed neighborhood, but when I walked into Disneyland , I felt the same shock that I felt when I went to a music concert in Salt Lake City, UT, where are all of the other people? Are these some real kooks, will they kill me because I had long hair and a beard?

Disney world in Florida was better marginally but better.

Broke up with a really great gal in college when we threw a party together and invited our friends. Screaming at me for inviting a couple of black couples (who really showed the honkies how to dance and got everyone dancing, and drinking and laughing and blacks and whites dancing together) and for inviting homosexual couples of both sexes, who had remarkable taste for picking the albums out of my collection that would get the people moving and actually danced together.

I don’t care what momma told you, or papa told you, or the teacher told, or the preacher man told you, you ain’t getting out of here alive. Enjoy everything you can.

Comment #25: less is more  on  07/26  at  01:53 PM

Again, I get so damn frustrated because if people would READ CROWLEY’S REPORT, they would understand that CROWLEY was in the wrong.

He can’t be wrong. He’s a cop. And he’s white. End of story.

Calling a pig a pig, or as TNC put it, “sassing a cop,” is an arrestable offense, just like failing to follow orders fast enough can get you tased. Great system we’ve got.

Comment #26: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  07/26  at  01:55 PM

Thanks for this, Jesse…out of the flurry of blog posts responding to the issues surrounding the Gates case, this is the one that I starred so I can refer back to it when I feel like I’m slipping back towards Gorgon’s world.

I was one of Those White People who knew that racism existed, but believed it had to be more subtle than a teacher calling a student the N word (no one is that stupid and cruel, right?? right???). It wasn’t until I saw complete strangers behave in blatantly racist ways (and be proud of it!) towards my partner—and even more revealing is that my partner didn’t bat an eye, because this is a perfectly normal experience—that I realized we live in a fucked up world, indeed.

It feels almost as if it’s gotten WORSE since Obama, as if people feel like electing a PoC into the White House is their “get out of racism free” card and they can say whatever the hell they want now (but I could just be more in-tune to it).

Comment #27: julian  on  07/26  at  01:58 PM

Gorgon, you asshole, go read the fucking police report.

Crowley called for backup after he believed he was talking to a resident, i.e., the purported VICTIM of a burglary.  Gates was calling his superior, and Crowley knew he didn’t know his name, and he refused to give it until Gates came out on the porch “in public”.  At that point, Crowley still didn’t give his name, but produced handcuffs, provoking Gates more.

What did it matter if Gates called his boss?  Crowley, up until he enticed Gates to the porch, had done nothing wrong.  However, as soon as he knew there was no incident, it was Crowley’s job to say “Sorry for the inconvenience; I’m glad you’re all right; have a nice evening.”

As soon as Crowley determined Gates was not a burglar, but the resident, it was his job to LEAVE.  Gates may have been an asshole, but that’s not illegal, especially in your own home.  Gates did not have to let the officer in his home, and when asked to leave, Crowley was obligated to do so.  The worst Gates did was violate etiquette.  Crowley abused the law.

Anyone who supports Crowley’s actions, supports a police state.  It’s not an equal battle here:  Crowley is a police officer trained in the law.  He has responsibilities and he is expected to know how to diffuse a situation.  It’s not a case of two people being assholes.  It’s a case of one person abusing his authority, and hiding behind “he called me a racist! and I have black friends!” to deflect the fact that he grossly overstepped his authority.

Comment #28: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/26  at  01:58 PM

Shorter Gorgon:

“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”

Comment #29: asdf  on  07/26  at  01:59 PM

or, as I also saw this weekend, a white woman sees a pitcher in a black family’s apartment and says, “That’s where he drank his Kool-Aid!”

What does this mean?

Comment #30: Eileen  on  07/26  at  02:03 PM

So I agree, this is *hardly* a post-racial nation. And it will not ever be one until professional victims like Mr. Gates, whom I believe is a racist himself

Are you…on drugs?

Or by some bizarre anomaly of science are you commenting on this thread from another ‘verse where your thoughts are actually connected to reality?

In arguments about race, it takes a slightly different form, generally in white people telling People of Colour that they’re “seeing race where none exists”. You, on the other hand, are “colour blind” and we live in “post-racial” times. It’s them who are making everything about race and their experience of racism in their daily lives is simply imagined. If only they could let it go, the whole world would live in post-racial harmony!

Comment #31: julian  on  07/26  at  02:04 PM

Crowley asked him to go outside, because as an officer, *you* have more rights there. Crowley was being smart.

So you just admitted that Crowley, instead of just letting it go and walking away like any reasonable person would have done, got Gates to go outside so he could have the upper hand. Here’s the thing, gorgon—you’re looking at this like it’s some sort of power play, and that the cop has all the rights to do whatever the fuck he thinks is necessary. But cops are public servants, and the root of that word servant is important. We’re not supposed to be citizens in an occupied country, and the cops aren’t supposed to be looking for ways to express their authority over the rest of us. You’re not serving the public and protecting the common good by finding loopholes so you can make arrests that are so baseless that the DA can’t drop the charges fast enough. You’re being a bad cop when you pull that kind of shit, and a number of cops have spoken publicly in the press, with names and everything, saying Crowley acted stupidly in that situation.

Comment #32: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  02:13 PM

So Gorgon, let’s get this straight.

You think it’s okay to kidnap a man with state violence for the crime of being angry while black.

Right?  Or am I still ignorant of your views on law enforcement?

Comment #33: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  02:15 PM

One other thing, gorgon. I’m stealing this from a commenter at Ta-Nehisi Coates’ place, but I think it sums up this situation pretty clearly.

“The bottom line here is that an officer used the authority of law to restrict the liberty of a man who was expressing displeasure with him. If you think that is right, then you fundamentally disagree with the basic principle of a free society.”

That’s what it really comes down to—authoritarianism versus freedom. It seems pretty clear that you’re willing to trade in more of your freedom for security than some of us are.

Comment #34: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  02:17 PM

gorgon,
A large majority also sided with the Iraq War at the beginning—they were wrong-headed about it and they changed their minds. Doesn’t make Crowley in the right here.

And again, it’s clear that you’re willing to live in more of a police state than I am, because you’re saying that it’s okay for a cop to arrest someone for expressing his displeasure with him.

Comment #35: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  02:26 PM

Anyways, To your question, I answer no. Obviously.
But I am ok with someone throwing a tantrum in public being arrested, as Mr. Gates was. Happens every day.

So you say no, but then you say you are okay with “someone throwing a tantrum”(or being angry?) being detained by force.

Time to start arresting toddlers!

And no, I don’t think my question was either loaded or hyperbolic.  An elderly man was detained and held against his will by force because he was angry at the person who was about to restrain him.

What, exactly, did Gates do criminally wrong here?  Wrong enough to warrant the state stepping in with force to kidnap and restrain him.

Or do you not know what ‘arrested’ means?

Do you not realize that the vast majority of the American people side with Mr. Crowley on this? You guys are really out to lunch on this one.

I am terrified to think that this is even possibly true.  The ‘vast majority’ of Americans believe in state violence and police kidnappings for angry old men?

Comment #36: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  02:27 PM

I just find it really hard to believe that the “vast majority” of Americans would not react in anger/displeasure to the same circumstances.

I’d be pissed.

Comment #37: julian  on  07/26  at  02:29 PM

—but I’m white and disAbled so I probably wouldn’t get arrested.

Comment #38: julian  on  07/26  at  02:31 PM

I see it like this.
1) Cop did what he was supposed to do in responding to the call, requesting ID.
2) Should have ended there.
3) Gates immediately pulls out the “persecuted black man card,” and reacts without logic or ration. He begins insulting, berating, degrading, even threatening the cop with “you don’t know who I am” type of stuff. Legal yes, but is it wise? Nope.
4) He requests cops’s ID, and that’s fine. Cop tell him ok, but outside, to protect himself. Gates at this time is in public, continues to throw a fit. Multiple witnesses corroborate (sp?) this.
5) Gates is arrested.
This situation happens every day multiple times. Sometimes it is necessary to arrest in this situation to put an end to the situation. 101.
And again, I can’t wait to see the dashcam video. From the written reports, Mr. Crowley is in the right. The video can either back up this assertion, or can help Mr. Gates if he was not as much of a disturbance as the cops on the scene state he was.

So…. Gates was arrested for being angry and loud about his feelings of being persecuted?
It makes sense that, to defuse such a sensitive sitation, you forcibly detain and kidnap the angry old man who is complaining about persecution.

Maybe it’s my own cognitive dissonance, I’m ready to accept that.  But I simply cannot wrap my mind around your understanding of the events that leads to a conclusion of “Cop was right.”

Comment #39: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  02:32 PM

Police action is racially biased against black people.

an estimated 49 percent of whites and 42.9 percent of blacks age 12 or older have used illicit drugs in their lifetime; 14.5 percent of whites and 16 percent of blacks have used illicit drugs in the past year; and 8.5 percent of whites and 9.8 percent of blacks have used an illicit drug in the past month

So black people and white people use drugs at essentially similar rates. If the justice system were not racially biased, then the ratio of blacks to whites imprisoned for drug offenses would be approximately the ratio of blacks to whites in the nation’s population. And yet:

[In 2003] African Americans constituted 53.5 percent of all persons who entered prison because of a drug conviction

Denying the fact of this racism makes you a defender of racism, Gorgon. Defending racism usually makes you a racist.

Comment #40: asdf  on  07/26  at  02:32 PM

Ya know, Gorgon, it’s not as though you don’t have a brazillion places to go where you can get your sense of privilege and entitlement echoed and coddled.  If, as you say, the majority of Americans side with Crowley then y’all should throw yourselves a giant pity party. 

I had no idea that asking a cop for his badge and ID number was an arrestable offense.

Comment #41: DonnaDiva  on  07/26  at  02:35 PM

Gates <strike>created a public disturbance</strike> failed to properly kiss a cop’s ass, an arrestable offense.

Fixed that for you. Does it not occur to you that the fact that the DA dropped the charges within hours suggest that Crowley more than overstepped his bounds here? I guess not, because apparently in your world, cops never ever fuck up and people who don’t kneel and scrape before the power of their billy clubs deserve whatever fucking up they receive in return.

Comment #42: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  02:36 PM

If it creates a public disturbance, yes, there are times that an arrest is warranted.

In other words, if Gates had been inciting other citizens to violence against the police officers, an arrest would have been warranted.

Comment #43: asdf  on  07/26  at  02:37 PM

Okay, Gorgon, what does ‘public disturbance’ mean?

Does it mean an angry old man yelling on his front porch?

Because that’s what it looks like to me.

If anything, the ‘disturbance’ was caused by the amount of police response to the situation.  Crowley did not need backup.  You yourself admitted that once ID was procured, the situation was Over, and Crowley should have left.

The charges were dropped just days later.  This means the arrest was solely an expression of violent force in kidnapping an angry man for being angry.

That right there is wrong enough, but attach the historical context of the individuals involved, the historical context of police interactions with minorities in the area, and the painted picture gets worse and worse.

Comment #44: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  02:38 PM

eileen, I’m wondering about that reference myself.

Comment #45: Alix  on  07/26  at  02:38 PM

There is a huge difference, I think, between acting like a fucking maniac, and expressing feelings of police persecution to a police officer.

Jus’ sayin’.

Comment #46: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  02:46 PM

It’d be nice, but I think it will only give each ‘side’ their own fuel.

Oh!  Look at how loud and angry he got!  They sure were right to kidnap him with state violence!

Oh!  Look at how improper the police response was to a concerned old man!

Granted, that’s through my own filter, but still.

I think we have all the facts necessary.  Crowley really messed up in escalating the sitatuion himself.  I am not saying that Gates was either right or wrong in his actions, but I am saying that Crowley was wrong, and he bears responsibility for the escalation of the situation to state violence and police kidnappings.

Comment #47: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  02:49 PM

Sounds more to me like you are hostile towards law enforcement of any kind and have little respect for the job.

Not at all. But I’m not going to defer to them when they’re in the wrong either. Again, this comes down to the way you see the concept of policing. I take the motto “to protect and serve” seriously, and serving the community does not include escalating situations just so you can prove that you’re in charge, which is precisely what Crowley did in this situation. Look at that police report again. Crowley could have ended this at any point—you have admitted this—and yet he decided to make the situation worse. How is that serving the community? How is that protecting the community?

Here, again, is the reality of the situation. Crowley arrested Gates because Gates was not sufficiently deferential to him in public. You seem to be okay with that. I am not.

Comment #48: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/26  at  02:50 PM

This is why I follow a golden rule: don’t mouth off to cops. There is never anything to gain by doing so, regardless of what color you are. Some of my pals in the college days learned this lesson the hard way. “yes sir, no sir,” are the phrases I use when addressing an officer. Do I like doing this? Nope. But I understand and accept that society grants cops authority over us because they have a challenging and extremely dangerous job. They deal with the worst society has to offer every day. And they have a gun, a tazer, mace, a nightstick, and the ability to take me and throw me in a cage if they want to. Best not to get on their bad side. This is common sense. Survival 101, if you will.

And this strikes you as a good thing to have to do?  That you, the citizen who employs the police officer, have to bow and scrape at his boot heels because otherwise, he might arrest you, beat you, electrocute you, or shoot you, regardless of how little cause he has to do any of those things?

As far as I’ve seen, no one is arguing that Gates’s behavior was politic or wise.  What we are arguing is that he should not have been arrested for telling off Crowley, and further, that police officers should not have the right to arrest people merely because they’re engaged in a dick-measuring contest.

Comment #49: Karinna A.  on  07/26  at  02:56 PM

I think Gorgon IS (or was) a police officer, so of course he thinks it’s a great idea to suck up to them.

Comment #50: Antigone  on  07/26  at  03:12 PM

I don’t know about “nigger” but a substitute teacher in my high school, in the year 2000, called a black student a “dirty darkie” and got away with it. The administration thought she was being a cute old lady or some crap instead of a racist. So, it’s entirely believable.

Comment #51: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  03:15 PM

One difference here- whites in the ‘burbs aren’t gunning each other down over weed and coke.

That will be very comforting news to the families of Nicholas Troy Sheley’s victims.

The pockets of high-crime black areas are also very concentrated, thus much easier to snag a criminal. The same does not hold true for white areas. Really, if I were a black dude that was into drugs, I’ve move out near the burbs. Much lesser chance of getting caught. Seriously. Cops don’t bother people out here because there is very little, if any crime where I live.

Again, white people use drugs at the same rate that black people do. So there is plenty of crime wherever you choose to look. Your claim that cops simply go to densely populated areas to find crime is not an explanation of the data. Suburban cops don’t have the option of going out of their jurisdiction. They have the option of either dealing with the crime in their jurisdiction, or ignoring it.

Police are targeting black people for drug arrests, and you believe this is a good thing. Yes, that makes you a racist, by any standard.

Tell the truth now, Gorgon, which part of “we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children” do you disagree with?

Comment #52: asdf  on  07/26  at  03:16 PM

Go get a house on Mt. Vernon Ave in Columbus and then tell me how fucking tolerant you are. Hypocrites.

Oh Jesus H. Christ, not this “argument” again. I live in a city that is majority black, in a neighborhood that is more even so. I’m doing just fine, thanks! Stop projecting, please.

Comment #53: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  03:17 PM

And if Cromwell purposely baited Gates to come outside for “public disturbances” than that’s referred to, in legal speak, as “entrapment”.  So, by all means, keep defending someone who was, at the very least an authoritarian asshole, and at worst a racist authoritarian asshole.

Comment #54: Antigone  on  07/26  at  03:18 PM

One difference here- whites in the ‘burbs aren’t gunning each other down over weed and coke.

Ever been to Appalachia? Not weed and coke (can’t get it, too isolated), but there’s plenty of violence over OxyContin and Meth.

Comment #55: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  03:19 PM

Oh, and respect is earned, not given.  I don’t call people who are badgering me with “yes, sir/ma’am, no sir/ma’am”, even if they do have entitlement issues and a shiny badge (and the gun doesn’t even enter into the calculations).

Comment #56: Antigone  on  07/26  at  03:20 PM

Gorgon, you’re forgetting about the part where the police officer refused to identify himself, and Gates decided not to be a victim. The appropriate response for the police officer was to apologize and leave, rather than to arrest Gates. Once again, the question is whether you believe it is appropriate for p[olice officers to kidnap law-abiding citizens because they argue with an officer in their own home. One of the primary questions of a free society.

Mostly, as we can see, it’s a combination of mindless defense of Crowly because he’s an authority figure and resentment that an African American professor didn’t “know his place.” A wealthy white man would have had the officer fired and run out of town. Gates just wanted the identity of the officer and got arrested for it because the officer couldn’t control himself when someone disagreed with him.

What’s stunning, I think, from the members of the “post racial society” here is that there is a distinct resentment against Gates for being black and not allowed himself to be “messed with,” rather than acting in the subservient manner that he is “supposed” to. And now these members of the “post racial society” are forced to defend something they’d rather not hear about.

Comment #57: Tyro  on  07/26  at  03:29 PM

Pretty much. During my time living in University City in Philadelphia, it wasn’t the blacks living in the ghetto 10 blocks down that would make me cross the street—it was the spoiled rich white college kids who knew they could get away with just about anything.

Comment #58: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/26  at  03:29 PM

The probably sounds like a stupid suggestion, but one recourse a black person (or any minority) has to this sort of discrimination, or being called “Nigger” is to WRITE A LETTER describing the incident, and send a copy to *any-and-every person* in authority in the area. Be sure to “cc” everyone you’ve sent a copy to, and maybe some people you haven’t.

There will be some interesting, and possibly very satisfying, results.

Even if there aren’t, knowing there is something -effective- one can do is helpful.

Professor Gates must know that, but after flying home from CHINA he was most likely feeling sick with exhaustion.  Even if you sleep on the plane, or travel business, it’s a horrible, exhausting experience.

Comment #59: Kwillow  on  07/26  at  03:37 PM

Are you…on drugs?

No, just hate.  Gorgon is simply a typical white racist seeking to justify his irrational hatred of non-whites with made up facts and delusional “evidence.”  I know for a fact that if a cop did to me what Crowley did, I would be well beyond pissed and I am a middle aged white male academic.  Anyone who thinks that this would have happened to a similarly situated white man needs to put down the crack pipe.  It is in fact people like Gorgon (and the PUMAs) who make a post-racial society impossible.

Comment #60: DrDick  on  07/26  at  03:37 PM

Eileen - I was at Hitsville, USA, and part of the tour is going through a preserved version of Berry Gordy’s apartment.  There’s an empty pitcher on a table, and the “Kool-Aid” comment was made - i.e., a vessel for containing beverages in a black person’s home must be for Kool-Aid as opposed to, say, water or tea or lemonade or anything else which the rest of polite society puts in pitchers.

Comment #61: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  03:47 PM

Seems to me that the Gates incident is being used a platform for discussing all things racial.  I’m hard-pressed to blame either party without having actually witnessed the whole thing in person.  I’d like to see and hear how the conversation started, the tone of voice of the participants, the body language, the whole package.  Passing judgement on this situation from afar isn’t something that I’m comfortable with.

Comment #62: Gizmo  on  07/26  at  03:47 PM

Go get a house on Mt. Vernon Ave in Columbus and then tell me how fucking tolerant you are.

It’s funny you mention Mt. Vernon, because I used to live in Columbus and not only travel up and down Mt. Vernon, but actually stop and interact with the scary Negroes who lived there…without even buying drugs!

Comment #63: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  03:57 PM

If you note , the only evidence the speaker was called “nigger” was the speaker’s story. Certainly, it flies in the face of conventional knowledge :i.e. call a student a vile term , lose your job. Still ,it did establish a sense of victim hood and the opportunity for this thought by Jesse.

What profit was there for him in lying, Corwin? I hate to be the one to break this to you, but yes, some authority figures do say cruel things to those over whom they have power – and one reacts, he’s considered a trouble-maker.

No, people don’t lose their jobs nearly often enough for this bullshit because, remember, it’s the word of a subordinate minority against his social superior – that’s the way most regulatory bodies would see it. 

...and, might I add, that’s pretty much how you saw it as well.

Comment #64: Nil  on  07/26  at  04:02 PM

Fine, I withdraw my hyperbole.  But isn’t there something wrong when your entire motivation for being respectful isn’t because it’s the right way to treat people, or because cops have a hard job, but out of fear?  Not the rational fear that people who have committed criminal acts have of the police, but the fear that even people who have done nothing have (and are supposed to display) of cops.

Look, my uncle is a cop.  He worked the night beat for at least a decade.  I get how that can color and taint your view of people, how it makes you judge everyone in the worst light possible, because you rarely get to see the good stuff on your job.  That doesn’t excuse abuse towards ordinary citizens who have done nothing but refuse to be deferential to a cop.

Comment #65: Karinna A.  on  07/26  at  04:03 PM

Comment stolen from Sadly, No!:

Post Racial is my favorite breakfast cereal.

Comment #66: Johnny Pez  on  07/26  at  04:04 PM

The statistics demonstrate that black people are targeted by the police. It is not paranoid to recognize this. It is racist to deny it.

Comment #67: asdf  on  07/26  at  04:09 PM

Willful Ignorance.  You should try less.

Comment #68: HavePatience  on  07/26  at  04:14 PM

Been to Detroit lately?

No, never in fact, and I have no reason to go there. But I live in a city that is majority black and I don’t cower in my basement, shitting my pants 24/7 over what the scary Negroes are plotting for me like you obviously would.

Those people who live out in the West End in their McMansions are, looking at verifiable data (like, oh, I dunno, election results) are Republicans, not liberals like you seem to believe.

Comment #69: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  04:18 PM

Cops go where there is crime.

Cops cannot leave their jurisdiction. Your suburban police are ignoring the drug crime in their midst.

Obviously, with more crime in an area, there will be more arrests, hence more people caught with drugs.

Since there are 6 times as many white drug criminals than black drug criminals, there should be 6 times as many arrests of whites than blacks.

But there aren’t. So it’s a fact that the justice system is racially biased against black people.

You want to deny this. Ignorance is no longer an excuse, since you’ve been given the facts now. The only remaining option is that you are a white supremacist.

Comment #70: asdf  on  07/26  at  04:19 PM

I agree with Gorgon.  I can’t wait to see the video footage of this.  I’m really curious to know what this “public disturbance” actually looked like and what form this supposed whining of racial persecution actually took.  I’ve been in a news bubble for the past few days so I don’t know the full details of what happened, but from the very beginning I had a hard time believing that an elderly professor as educated in racial politics as Gates is supposed to be actually started “throwing a fit” as you say, Gorgon.  I’ll be surprised if Gates raised his voice at all but instead simply stated his case calmly and rationally and pointed out just how racist the cop was being.  Not yelling, but perhaps being emphatic, maybe even laughing ruefully.

On the other hand, even if he was being belligerent I’d defend him.  I’ve flown to/from Asia a few times myself and after all those hours on a plane plus jet lag, throwing a tantrum is my first response to any negative stimulus.  No reason for me to think it’s different for an old black man. 

But then, I’m always going to find more in common with and more empathy for the victims rather than the instigators of racism because I recognize their fundamental humanity.  Being people, they are going to sometimes be exhausted, angry, sad, irritated, etc, and they aren’t going to make the best decisions when in those emotional states.  Just like me.  Hell, even if they do the “correct” thing and say “yes sir/no sir” I can totally see a dickwad like Gorgon/Crowley yell at them for mocking the cop.

Comment #71: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  04:20 PM

Middle class white drug addicts don’t kill each other dealing drugs, they just go around doctor shopping for their high.

If you’re poor (or especially poor and black) the doctor will tell you to get the fuck out. If you’re a middle class white guy, they’ll gladly prescribe you OxyContin for your “back pain”, giving you your fix.

Comment #72: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  04:22 PM

If the government would just admit that the Drug War is over and they lost, btw, none of this would be an issue.

Comment #73: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  04:24 PM

“It turned into an ego pissing match between the two. And Gates lost.”

It turned into an ego pissing match between one guy with a gun and another with decades of education telling him bluntly that he’s not impressed by said gun.  Because again, Gates knew what would happen.  He’s not surprised that he was arrested.  Sometimes, it’s worth it to take a stand.

Comment #74: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  04:26 PM

whites in the ‘burbs aren’t gunning each other down over weed and coke. Blacks in the hood are. The pockets of high-crime black areas are also very concentrated, thus much easier to snag a criminal. The same does not hold true for white areas. Really, if I were a black dude that was into drugs, I’ve move out near the burbs. Much lesser chance of getting caught. Seriously. Cops don’t bother people out here because there is very little, if any crime where I live.

Wow.  Seldom have I witnessed a lack of self awareness of such magnitude. 

Let me get this straight.  On Planet Gorgon, white people are:
a) discouraged from speaking openly and honestly about race (thereby making the ones who do into victims/heroes),
b) smart/wealthy enough to move to the suburbs (whereas their black counterparts are not), where they are
c) able to use drugs with impunity, yet
d) crime-free. 

It’s funny, tho, that the original post had a lot to do with Gorgon’s other point that there’s a huge problem with, as he says, white people who claim to be “tolerant,” “post-racial,” whatever, yet who can’t help rolling up the car windows in a black neighborhood.  But then he posts comments like this that show what he’s really thinking and who he thinks is really the source of the problem, and, well, we can see that, while claiming sufficient enlightenment to know how not-post-racial we really are, he is in fact a window-roller-upper.  Exquisite.

Comment #75: jTuba  on  07/26  at  04:28 PM

“Common sense. You should get some.”

Common decency.  I’d tell you to get some, but some things are just beyond some people…

Comment #76: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  04:29 PM

Oh!  And I’ll bet anything, Gorgon, because you’re so predictable, that you’re going to retort that because Gates knew he would get arrested, that we have no business taking his side ‘cause he got what he wanted.  That’s totally what you’re thinking, isn’t it?  That it should all be swept under the carpet and we should all move on.

I never really stopped to consider how boring it must be as a bigoted white man to not know what it’s like to fight for something greater than yourself.  It must really irritate you to know that even though the patriarchy loves you best, we will always be more impressed by ordinary men like Gates and will hold him up as a hero while not particularly ever giving a shit that you lived and died.  While never actually knowing that you lived and died.

Comment #77: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  04:31 PM

Translation: I"m a snob and I’m above being questioned by some cop.

Not at all.  I actual have had a lot of cop friends in the past and generally respect them.  I have in fact been questioned by cops on occasions where that was reasonable and had no beef with that.  What I would have a beef with, which is what happened here, is a cop abusing his authority after it was established that I lived in the house and had a right to be there.  Once that fact was established, the cop should have apologized for the inconvenience and left.  Not all of us will conveniently fit your bigoted stereotypes.

I lived in Chicago for 12 years in a racially mixed neighborhood on the north side and never once felt threatened or afraid.  Never had any problems with folks in the neighborhood, just spoiled affluent white kids in from the suburbs.  I actually enjoyed the diversity, so much more interesting than plain old mayo on white bread.  I should also repeat that I grew up in small town Oklahoma in the 50s and 60s during segregation and Jim Crow.

Comment #78: DrDick  on  07/26  at  04:31 PM

Crowley asked him to go outside, because as an officer, *you* have more rights there.

Is this just the reverse of the “entrapment” view, or are you alluding to something else?  Because it sounds like you’re saying that because yelling inside your house is not against the law, but yelling outside your house might be, the cop gains “more rights” insofar as those rights include the right to arrest yelling people.  What other rights does he gain by being outside?  I’m not speaking from any position of expertise, but “rights” seems like a very loaded word.

Comment #79: FlipYrWhig  on  07/26  at  04:34 PM

It amazes me just how many white people there are who seem to really believe that you should have to kiss the ass of cops.  WTF is that shit about?  I’m white.  I don’t believe I have to kiss any fucking cop’s ass, and I don’t think anyone has to.  They get paid to do a fucking job.  They’re paid with my money. They better get their asses to doing it.  I don’t have to lick their asses or else.  Or else what?  How about you do your job and drop your attitude, or else.  How about that.

Comment #80: Lady Vader  on  07/26  at  04:36 PM

These are exactly the kind of slavish authoritarians who saluted every time Bush farted for eight years, and loved getting on their knees and taking their orders from Dick Cheney.  Then after getting their orders from fellow authoritarians they consider better than they are, they love to turn around and start issuing orders to other people they consider not as good as they are. 

They are really very highly disturbed people.

Comment #81: Lady Vader  on  07/26  at  04:39 PM

Thank you to Mr. Crowley, for not backing down to race hustling, paranoid black assholes like Mr. Gates.

I didn’t read Crowley’s report, but from what I understand, he already knew Gates was the legal resident of that house when he broke out the cuffs. He essentially got into a pissing match with the home-owner, then played his ace when Gates wouldn’t back down.

Remember: Gates isn’t the one being paid to deal with the public in situations like this. Being an asshole in ejecting unwanted people (who no longer have any legitimate business being there) from his property is not a crime. It doesn’t matter if those people are police officers or meter readers or proselytizers.

And what’s this nonsense about Crowley not giving his name or his badge number?
In fact, Crowley could have handed Gates his police ID and asked Gates to provide his own ID quid pro quo if that were the only thing at issue.

Because of what Gates does for a living, I suspect he’s especially sensitized to issues of authority and its misuse - and the thing is, Crowley proved Gates right.

Comment #82: Nil  on  07/26  at  04:39 PM

Crowley had to lure Gates outside his house for Crowley’s personal safety.  He could just tell Gates was about to open up a can of Negro-Fu on him and he needed witnesses so a wild 58-year old crazy Negro wouldn’t kick his ass and then bury the body in the back yard.  You how crazy they can get when you get them all riled up…

***

BTW, Gorgon…or can I just call you SnakeHead now that we’re all buddies, you keep spouting off this “50% of murders are committed by Blacks!” crap, and I for one would like to see you produce believable stats or shutup…

Comment #83: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  04:44 PM

MikeEss -

According to the latest DOJ statistics, that is in fact the case (I went and looked).  Of course almost half of all murder victims are black as well, but Gorgon does not want to talk about that.  It would ruin his narrative of white victimization if he had to admit that minorities are far more likely to be victims of all crimes than are whites.

Comment #84: DrDick  on  07/26  at  04:49 PM

whites in the ‘burbs aren’t gunning each other down over weed and coke. Blacks in the hood are.

Whites in the ‘burbs are busy blowing up their houses with meth labs and poisoning their children. Or throwing cocktail-and-cocaine parties.

Have you ever walked down a street in a neighborhood that isn’t whiter than a ghost? At night? Because really, people who live there (even if they’re poor, or even worse, Poor while Black) are for the most part as chill as cucumbers unless you decide to start being a douche. Even at night, which is as we all know full of dangerous black men out for white blood, people really aren’t interested in you! A lot of the problems suburban whites have with “city folk” is that unlike their suffering coworkers/neighbors, people have shit to do besides listening to their crap. I’m sure it must be really threatening when some black person starts looking annoyed because you just remarked that “There’re a lot of coloreds in this neighborhood” or said “Dinkin flica” to them.

It amazes me just how many white people there are who seem to really believe that you should have to kiss the ass of cops.  WTF is that shit about?

If you don’t bow and smile when told, you’ll end up beat up and in prison with pot smokers and drunkards. One arrest can and will destroy your life and dreams!

Comment #85: limes  on  07/26  at  04:50 PM

Because really, people who live there (even if they’re poor, or even worse, Poor while Black) are for the most part as chill as cucumbers unless you decide to start being a douche.

This. Stay out of the illegal drug trade, and there’s nothing to worry about. Or at least nothing that is greater than the likelihood of having a fatal/massively debilitating traffic wreck on the commute from your officer park to McMansion if you lived in the burbs. And probably less.

Comment #86: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  04:57 PM

13% of the pop. commits half the murders. This is unacceptable.

Here comes the “final solution”.

Comment #87: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  04:58 PM

Gorgon, did you ever stop to consider that we call you racist because you are in fact racist?

Also, when using logic both C and D cannot co-exist. Use your noggin.

Comment #88: jessilikewhoa  on  07/26  at  04:59 PM

Gorgon, I’m white. I don’t assume that any given white person is a racist. You, personally, have used up all benefit of the doubt, and have made it clear that you are a white supremacist.

Comment #89: asdf  on  07/26  at  04:59 PM

Also, crime has declined, drastically and then more gradually, for the last eighteen years. The country, meanwhile, has become less white.

Comment #90: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  05:00 PM

But it’s entertaining to actually find people that have such a fucked up view of things.

Look in the mirror much?  I never said white people suck (after all I and most of my relatives are white), just that diversity is fun.  As to the Gates incident, you seem to be willfully oblivious to the fact that Gates had in fact already provided the cop with identification which showed he lived there before things got out of hand.  It was the failure of the cop, against police policy and the law, to leave at that point which caused the confrontation.

Comment #91: DrDick  on  07/26  at  05:03 PM

yeah, all those dumbass whites need to be done away with.

Oh shit, this was too easy. You just fell into my trap. I never made that conclusion, but it shows perfectly the fucked up way you think.

Comment #92: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  05:05 PM

people who live there (even if they’re poor, or even worse, Poor while Black) are for the most part as chill as cucumbers unless you decide to start being a douche.

What if you’re a born douche? That’s a serious issue for some people.

Comment #93: tb  on  07/26  at  05:05 PM

He can’t be wrong. He’s a cop. And he’s white. End of story.

....
MAJeff, the God of Biscuits on 07/26 at 12:55 PM

and what less is more said about adrenaline junkies.

Called a cop the other night to report a business doing maintenance after 11 p.m. (10 p.m. noise ordinance) and their loud equipment backup signal was keeping us up and they refused my request to stop and said it would continue all night.  Cop didn’t want to actually do anything, like enforce the law. Tried some ridiculous, “would’ve worked on the less well informed or more easily intmidated” reasons he couldn’t do anything, but this has happened before, and I actually have the law which I got from the local legislators who asked me to let them know when/if a cop fails to enforce after a citizen complaint.  Cops irritability and annoyance and attempts to intimidate were sort of fun to watch (this was the day after the Gates incident and my reading all the “what Gates should have done bs.)  After being calmly told the ordinance and section of the code that was being violated, cop squealed tires out of my drive and hit @ 90 in the less than quartermile he had to travel to enforce the law.  BTW cop and I are of the same race.  Conclusion is that some of them may well just be assholes, not necessarily of the racist variety.  ANd I’m sure some good cops have asshole days, too.

Comment #94: phylosopher  on  07/26  at  05:07 PM

FWIW, nearly half of all murder victims are also black.

Comment #95: Captain Bathrobe  on  07/26  at  05:12 PM

Gorgon, thank you for being so predictable.  I love being proved right.

Comment #96: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  05:13 PM

1) I have less respect for someone who does their job poorly, and that includes cops, and that particularly includes cops that respect the blue line.  But against the institution of law enforcement?  Not at all.  They have a necessary, important, and difficult job.

2)  More or less, yes, but this probably comes down to what you think a “ruckus” is.  Do I have ever right to go down the street screaming at the top of my lungs?  ABSO-fucking-LUTELY (barring noise complaints- you should be respectful of people trying to sleep).  Do I have the right to bitch out someone who wouldn’t leave my house?  Yes, I damn well do.  It’s somewhat assholish, and I wouldn’t encourage it’s use, but yes, we have the right to yell, scream, be assholes, if that’s what you want to do.  We don’t have the right to threaten physical violence, or use physical violence (except for very narrow circumstances).  But free speech says you can talk all you want.

3)  Well, an incident like this seems to demonstrate the continued need for it, so yeah, probably.

4)  Yes, but that’s incomplete.  For most people “racist” is the default setting.  Our society is racist, from stern-to-stem, even if it’s something most people don’t notice (or actively argue against it).  We set up our society to be bigoted, and then wonder why it is.  There are lots of racism- some are from fear (like people crossing the street when there’s a black man, or rolling up the windows like you pointed out), some are from anger (They’re all taking MY job away, the one I deserve because *mumble mumble over entitled cry baby) and then there’s racism from ignorance (all black people dance better, et cetera).  Then there’s the “La la la, I can’t hear you” racism of insisting that the world is racist against whites because…this is the problem I always get to.  How does that work when the richest, most powerful, most well-connected people are almost uniformly white (and male, but that’s a slightly different subject). 

5)  “Race hustlers?”  Wtf is that?  Pam did do a post about how class privilege played a part in this altercation, but at the end of the day Cromwell was being an authoritarian ass.  HE was the cop, the one with the full effect of the law behind him.  It was HIS GODDAMN responsibility to de-escalate the situation, it was his responsibility to apologize for mistaking him for a burglar, and he best damn well apologize for arresting someone who’s “crime” was being insufficiently deferential to a white cop.

This situation had nothing to do with Gate’s feeling towards cops.  It did have everything to do with the fact that a cop seemed to think it was impossible for Gate to live in his own house.

6)  We’re committed to social justice for everyone, and we want better for society.  I guess that does make us pretty kooky.

Comment #97: Antigone  on  07/26  at  05:15 PM

Also, please provide evidence that Gates actually “screamed”.  With scream being defined as “higher pitch and louder tone than usual speaking voice”.

Comment #98: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  05:15 PM

“According to the latest DOJ statistics, that is in fact the case (I went and looked).  Of course almost half of all murder victims are black as well, but Gorgon does not want to talk about that.  It would ruin his narrative of white victimization if he had to admit that minorities are far more likely to be victims of all crimes than are whites.”

I keep forgetting that white crime is stuff like taking investor’s money and pissing it away in some Ponzi scheme and then getting the Government to cover your losses, or structuring a healthcare system that allows you to collect billions and then refuse to actually pay for healthcare when somebody needs it, getting a no-bid government contract to supply mercenaries for The War (which one it is doesn’t matter), or making sure we can torture and kill prisoners without getting charged by covering up and destroying the evidence, or tapping all the phones in the US by hooking in right at the central office, or in Gorgon’s neck of the woods, po’ white trash stealin’ and robbin’ to get enough money to keep their crystal meth or hillbilly-heroin habit going.

As long as it’s Black people killing Black people, Gorgon doesn’t care…unless he needs a stat to use at Pandagon…

Comment #99: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  05:16 PM

shorter asdf: Gorgon stop standing up for yourself!

You aren’t standing up for yourself. You’re just hating black people. These actually are two different things.

Which part of “we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children” do you disagree with?

Comment #100: asdf  on  07/26  at  05:17 PM

Oh, by the by.

A citizen has the right to demand a person’s badge for both his/her name or his/her ID number.  If that’s “causing a ruckus” he has the right to do that too.

Comment #101: Antigone  on  07/26  at  05:21 PM

Gorgon:

No point, really; just providing context. 

You were acting as though you were making some sort of huge point by stating that half of all murders are committed by blacks.  I’m a little unclear about what that point was.

Comment #102: Captain Bathrobe  on  07/26  at  05:22 PM

White supremacist Gorgon, why would you deny the fact of racism in the justice system unless you enjoy benefiting from it?

Comment #103: asdf  on  07/26  at  05:23 PM

Gee, Gorgon, a few more sneering references to “your messiah” and I might get the suspicion that you’re not arguing in good faith.

Comment #104: Bitter Scribe  on  07/26  at  05:24 PM

Okay, I’m going to make this very clear, since it seems to be missing.

What did Gates do that is classified as “creating a disturbance in public”?  If it was yelling, you’re allowed to do that.  If it was demanding to see a badge, you have a right to do that.  If it was saying “You don’t know who you’re messing with” you have a right to do that.

What, exactly, was the “disturbance” that was illegal and required Gates to be arrested?

Comment #105: Antigone  on  07/26  at  05:25 PM

Funny how Gorgon fails to realize just how many of the people he’s yelling at are white people. He simply imagines anyone who is not a white supremacist like himself must be a self-loathing race traitor.

Comment #106: asdf  on  07/26  at  05:26 PM

Oh, and fyi- not everyone on this blog endorsed Obama.  A good chunk of people were hoping for Edwards, and a not insubstantial were pulling for Hillary Clinton.  Additionally, if you check through the posts, a lot of them are criticizing Obama.  There are Obama-bots; but they aren’t here.

Comment #107: Antigone  on  07/26  at  05:27 PM

Anyways, I don’t like the fact that there are parts of my hometown I can’t go to now because they are literally considered “no-go zones,” not only by whites, but by everyone

are there armed military guards standing at all points of entry? no? then the only thing stopping you from entering that area is YOU and your fear of the other.

I’ve lived in neighborhoods considered “no-go zones” by ignorant white people and had no problems.

in addition you keep talking about what the “majority” thinks, I should point out that at various times in the history of this country the majority believed: that women are property, that black people are property, that slavery is fine, that children should run dangerous machinery, that masturbation will make you blind, that interraccial marriage should be illegal, that white people should not share public spaces with black people, that first nations peoples are savages, that Catholics are out to undermine and overthrow the US government, that Hollywood is full of anti-American communist spies.

the majority does not have a track record of always being right.

Comment #108: jessilikewhoa  on  07/26  at  05:28 PM

Pretending we are post-(anything) is bad for the (anything) because it means we are supposed to be quiet about the (anything), a situation that benefits the status quo.  Thus, if the police enforce the law disproportionately against black citizens, the action of disproportionate enforcement can be ignored because, hey, it’s the post-racial status quo, but black citizens who pipe up about it are alleged to be making it “all about race.”  Similarly, if gay people are fired from their jobs for being gay, the act of firing them is hidden and neutral until the gays bring it up, in which case they are alleged to be making it “all about their gayness.” 

I like that Obama tries to use his influence to get us beyond the traditional roadblocks we face by encouraging us to be more open to the other side, but I am very wary of those traditionally in power who are trumpeting the news that this is post-racial America.  It means,  all of you who feel cut out, left out, left behind, kicked down . . . you can shut up.

Comment #109: lupe  on  07/26  at  05:28 PM

Anyways, I don’t like the fact that there are parts of my hometown I can’t go to now because they are literally considered “no-go zones,” not only by whites, but by everyone.

Um, is this sort of like the Yogi Berra quotation, “Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded”?  Who’s there making it dangerous?  Or do you live near a hellmouth or something?

Comment #110: FlipYrWhig  on  07/26  at  05:34 PM

It’s a fact that the justice system is biased against black people. You haven’t done anything but laud this as necessary. What conclusion should anyone come to except that you are a white supremacist?

Comment #111: asdf  on  07/26  at  05:34 PM

And yes, I do believe a lot of white liberals suffer from some sort of guilt complex, and may have self-loathing issues. Why else would someone actively support a political party that advocates discriminating against them in order to achieve some ridiculous racial/ethnic bean-counting quota.

I have 2 year old, and I’ll stomp on anyone that wants to advocate discrimination against him.

“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”

Comment #112: asdf  on  07/26  at  05:35 PM

I love how you’re ignoring my pointed statements and questions, Gorgon.

Please feel free to ignore me when I request a link to a statement that says that Obama and/or democrats are advocating discrimination against white people.

I’d also like to know what’s wrong with white guilt?  I have plenty of it, myself.  It’s awful to have unasked for privilege and I try to be aware of it when I benefit from it.  So what?

Comment #113: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  05:39 PM

I have 2 year old, and I’ll stomp on anyone that wants to advocate discrimination against him.

Hey, maybe a cop will give him a hard time for trying to get back into his own house.

Comment #114: FlipYrWhig  on  07/26  at  05:41 PM

I get the distinct impression from this thread that Gorgon thinks that Henry Louis Gates is a murderer.

Comment #115: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  05:44 PM

On voting and organizing against one’s own interests (like Gorgon has chosen to do)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc

Comment #116: asdf  on  07/26  at  05:45 PM

I’ll pose my question again, Gorgon:

What exactly is your point?  You have accused everyone here of putting words into your mouth, so here is an opportunity to clear things up:  what follows from the fact that half of all murders are committed by blacks?  What, in your opinion, is the cause of this phenomenon, and what should be done about it?

Comment #117: Captain Bathrobe  on  07/26  at  05:45 PM

Anyways, I don’t like the fact that there are parts of my hometown I can’t go to now because they are literally considered “no-go zones,” not only by whites, but by everyone.

So nobody lives there?

Walk through it sometimes, and I guarantee the worst thing that will happen to you is someone will offer to sell you drugs. If you don’t want any, you will be left the fuck alone.

Comment #118: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  05:46 PM

Also, he appears to believe that all liberals are white people, an interesting assertion that demonstrates how useful living in a post-reality universe has been to conservatives making bigoted arguments.

Comment #119: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  05:47 PM

I have 2 year old, and I’ll stomp on anyone that wants to advocate discrimination against him.

Shorter Gorgon: 14 WORDS!  RAHOWA!  88!  RAHOWA!

Comment #120: wjts  on  07/26  at  05:49 PM

And I’m sorry, but I had to laugh when you said “Gates did not have to let the officer into his home.” Well no, technically not, but on a burglary call, that would be very unwise. That call has to be resolved, and to NOT let the guy clear it up would have been grounds for immediate arrest, and a heap of trouble.

I don’t think many here know a damn thing about law enforcement. Just…..littered with ignorance.
Gorgon on 07/26 at 01:05 PM

WTF are you talking about?  And what teenage mutant crime mag do you get your info from. You do not have to let a police officer into your home unless he has a warrant. 

Your insecurity is showing, Gorgon.  Your pasty white skin is your last line of defense against being treated as the asshole you so obviously are.  Because you’d (rightly) be pissed as hell thinking any cop could enter your premises at any time to “close out a file,”  but since you’re white, there’s that little voice in the back reaches of what passes for your brain that says “but that wouldn’t happen to a white guy like me.”  I wonder if in the pursuit of Dr. Tiller’s murderer, they had started knocking down doors of all the raid anti-choicers how quickly we’d see you supremacists and fundernuts screaming about the right to be free from unwarranted search and seizure.

Comment #121: phylosopher  on  07/26  at  05:50 PM

Oh, wait, I get it!  Gorgon is playing the racist asshole in support of Jesse’s post.  Thanks for proving Jesse right, Gorgon.  You can shut the fuck up now.

Comment #122: BadKitty  on  07/26  at  05:50 PM

Gorgon, are you now or have you ever been “jumpinjim”?

Comment #123: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  05:52 PM

Gorgon,

I’m really feeling left out here.  I asked you a substantive question in a respectful manner.  I can only assume that you are a troll who is only intent on threadjacking rather than engaging in substantive, intelligent, respectful discourse.  Surely that can’t be right?

Comment #124: Captain Bathrobe  on  07/26  at  05:53 PM

I have 2 year old, and I’ll stomp on anyone that wants to advocate discrimination against him.

If you really want to piss off Mr. Gorgon, say the same thing while you’re black.

Comment #125: tb  on  07/26  at  05:53 PM

It amazes me just how many white people there are who seem to really believe that you should have to kiss the ass of cops.  WTF is that shit about?

Seeing comments from a lot of them, I suspect their class and race privilege means they’ve never really been hassled by cops.  So their belief that they’d be perfectly submissive is hypothetical.

How much people here want to bet that Gorgon uses ye ol’ n-word himself?  Most people I’ve heard make his arguments let it fly on occasion when they think there’s no black people around.  And since he’s defined liberals as 100% white, I imagine it’s just a matter of time in this thread.

Comment #126: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  05:56 PM

Anybody who is a white male that is qualified and intelligent really has nothing to worry about from government policies that allow qualified women and minorities to compete against them.

If you’re a dipshit frat boy who expects to get by on being white and male, or having the right last name, or well, all of the above *cough*Bush*cough* I can see where you might be worried.

Comment #127: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  05:56 PM

“What’s wrong with it? Well…..let’s start with the fact that it’s a tad bit unusual to feel guilty for things you didn’t do. That’s borderline mental disorder type of stuff there. Got it? Good. This guilt complex manifests itself in the political arena, and it’s become a problem for those of us who know we don’t owe anyone shit. Fools like you support policies that screw us, AND YOURSELF over.”

Sorry dude, but I can’t happily live in a world of inequality and just pretend everything is peachy when I know I could be helping to make it a better place. 

But that’s just me.  I don’t look at everything and everyone and try to see how I can profit, or how my political party can become stronger, or how my “race” can benefit.  I want to live in a world at peace, where people can live their lives and not suffer because their skin is the “wrong” shade, or they speak the “wrong” language, or believe in the “wrong” gods, or they don’t have lots of money.

Like I said, that’s just me.  But I also know I’m not the only one who feels that way…

Comment #128: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  05:57 PM

The Ricci case?  You mean the one that just resulted in a win for the white people?  And affirmative action?  You mean the social policy that results in increased opportunities mainly for white women, like myself?

Also, unless you’re a total sociopath, it’s not remotely unusual to feel guilty for things you didn’t do.  I feel bad when bad things happen to people.  I feel bad when I can’t help someone in need.  I feel bad when I know something bad is happening that I can’t do shit about.  My therapist assures me that the only thing wrong with me is pervasive anxiety, not a personality disorder. 

And I told you what I do, I think twice when I hear about a racially charged situation because what else can I do?  I don’t apologize, outside of general apologies that bad things happen.  Oh what the hell, I’m so hung over today that I’m willing to give you a bone.  The sole measurable aspect of my white guilt can be seen on my nasty ass feet because I won’t ask a woman of color to knee before me while she does my nails.  Although that’s linked pretty closely to the fact that I’m a cheap bastard, but still. 

(This is the part where you tell me that it’s okay to get manicure/pedicures because I’m giving them money for it.)

Comment #129: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  05:58 PM

Shocking that Gorgon is yet another troll who, on top of being racist, is perfectly obsessed with me, who he considers the stand-in for all bitches with opinions.  *sigh*  Being the symbol of how bitches are out of control to all these creepy fuckers is easily the least fun part of being a blogger.

Comment #130: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:00 PM

I have 2 year old,

That’s a shame.

Comment #131: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:01 PM

I would expect a black person to say the same thing.

Yeah, bullshit. You’d go to a liberal blog, swing your dick around and scream about “race hustlers” like you’re doing now.

Comment #132: tb  on  07/26  at  06:02 PM

I can still enjoy the compliment, though, right?

Comment #133: asdf  on  07/26  at  06:02 PM

Please stomp out in a huff, Gorgon.  Please do!  It’s almost beer thirty, and I’m sure you’ve got at least a spouse or a wife to make racist jokes to, so you can giggle with pleasure at your own daring against the evil liberals with their naive beliefs about how human beings are all human beings, regardless of race.  Look, some white liberals really don’t know how fucking racist you and yours can be, because they didn’t grow up around it.  But I’m not that naive.  So please, scurry along and be an asshole to your friends who appreciate it more.

Comment #134: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:03 PM

I believe that’s what were all waiting to see. From what I’ve read thus far, the dashcam video is damning evidence against mr. gates.

Then how on EARTH do you know Gates deserved to be arrested?!?  You don’t even know what the “disturbance” was, and you’re reflexively saying that the arrest was justified, and Gates is the real bigot here.

*headache*

Comment #135: Antigone  on  07/26  at  06:04 PM

“Many of you here are intellectually bankrupt and sick in the head. Go get help with your guilt complex. It’s highly abnormal, unhealthy, and self-defeating.”

Yeah, it’s much healthier to see bad stuff going on around you — in your neighborhood, your city, your state, your country — and then just ignore it and pretend it doesn’t exist.  And that isn’t a sign of mental illness at all.  No siree…

Comment #136: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  06:06 PM

The days of racial preferences are coming to an end.

Sounds like something Henry Louis Gates would say to a cop who insisted on not letting it go.

Comment #137: FlipYrWhig  on  07/26  at  06:07 PM

Any parent should stomp the shit out of anyone that would want to screw over their kid, and this includes white dudes like me.
Gorgon on 07/26 at 04:55 PM

So you’re OK with black and brown folk stomping the shit out of racist white absentee landlords who allow peeling lead paint in an apartment rented by a family with children?  You’re OK with a black woman “stomping the shit” out of the cop who is arresting her kid who she knows was at home with her for a crime it was impossible for him to commit?  You think it’s OK for a black man to stomp the shit out of a white bank president who circular files his daughter’s application for a loan becasue her name is LaShawnda?

Gee, wouldn’t those folks be guilty of disorderly conduct?  ANd after the rest of your commetns, you’ll excuse me if I have a bit of trouble believing you.

Comment #138: phylosopher  on  07/26  at  06:08 PM

Me: “I don’t want me or my children to be discriminated against”

Everyone else: “Fuck you racist.”

Actually it went like this:

It would be nice if blacks didn’t instantly assumed that all of us dumb white peoples’ default setting is “racist.” Also, it might help out if black men, who are barely 6% of the population, could stop committing half the murders in the country.

Apropos of nothing, you insisted that black men were inherently murderous. You took a thread about racism against black people as an opportunity to complain about affirmative action. Then you denied that the justice system is biased against black people, in contradiction of the statistics that prove it is.

That’s how you rightfully earned a hearty “fuck you, racist.”

Comment #139: asdf  on  07/26  at  06:08 PM

Any parent should stomp the shit out of anyone that would want to screw over their kid, and this includes white dudes like me.

So when Henry Louis Gates Sr. goes to stomp the shit of Crowley, you’ll be there to cheer him on?

Comment #140: wjts  on  07/26  at  06:09 PM

Don’t get too upset at having a wingnut call you “sick”.  Believe me, having had to move between the spheres, the one where you’re cringing in fear and feeding your own sense that your racism makes you morally superior is the duller, sadder life.  He’s just projecting, and worse, bragging that he’s got a child he intends to raise with the same soul-sucking racist beliefs.  Rejecting that bullshit is very freeing, and I really do hope Gorgon’s son is able to do it.

Comment #141: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:09 PM

It would be nice if blacks didn’t instantly assumed that all of us dumb white peoples’ default setting is “racist.”

You know, people treat you like a racist because you’re a racist.  You’re not nearly as clever as you think, and believe me, people can tell it from the way you act in the world what words and jokes you think are funny in the company of your friends.

Comment #142: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:10 PM

I have to say I’m a fan of the “I didn’t own slaves, so I must not benefit from racism” argument, Gorgon.  It’s akin to the “I’m not an arsonist, so I shouldn’t have to pay for a fire department” argument.  In that it’s fucking dumb as fuck.

Comment #143: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  06:13 PM

Kinda full of yourself, eh?

“Almost uppity.”

Comment #144: tb  on  07/26  at  06:14 PM

I thought you were going to flounce out, Gorgon.  Surely it’s got to be grating to try to paint that thin veneer of tolerance, even as you accidentally implied that black people don’t have political opinions worth counting and that Henry Louis Gates is a potential murderer.  Flounce out and let your hair down with your wife.  I’m sure there will be some news shows portraying the First Family that can inspire you to make blatantly racist jokes that your wife will giggle at (while perhaps nervously wondering if that’s really such a great lesson to teach your kid).  Why are you wasting your time here?

Comment #145: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:14 PM

Do you people all hang out in a crypt and flog each other because of your guilt complex?

No, that’s more of a fundy thing to do.  You know, get to relieve your guilt by doing something that isn’t the least bit useful to anyone.

Comment #146: Antigone  on  07/26  at  06:15 PM

Shocking that Gorgon is yet another troll who, on top of being racist, is perfectly obsessed with me, who he considers the stand-in for all bitches with opinions.  *sigh*

See, this is why I thought he was the Troll Formerly Known as Jumpinjim, but this must be an entire type of troll.

Comment #147: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  06:15 PM

Antigone, here’s Smoking Gun.  http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

I think the officer was doing the “right” thing in the sense that, if Gates was as loud and scary and disturbing as the report claims, it made sense to arrest him.  The difference comes in the fact that had Crowley knocked on *my* door after I just landed from an international flight, and *I* threw the same fit, he would have apologized and left.  The officer would never say that he arrested Gates because he was black and he truly is probably shocked to the core that he’s being accused of racism.  But the fact utterly remains that I cannot fathom a world where if it were me, I would be arrested for causing a public nuisance.  Crowley felt he had something to prove to the crowd.  He’s probably a decent person, as most people are, but got caught up in his own preconceived ideas of right/wrong.

Gorgon, no one’s said shit about your child deserving discrimination.  In fact, I think we’d all agree that your child deserves to be treated exactly likes Gates’ children/grandchildren are. 

Plus, what does me feeling white guilt and not wanting to ask a woman of color to kneel before me to do my nails have to do with anything in the past?  God you’re fun. You fail the stick rule, but this is good for my hangover.

Comment #148: Rachel,II  on  07/26  at  06:16 PM

And btw, the accusation of racism is damn near meaningless now. Folks such as yourself have overused it. Now, a racist is a white person that doesn’t want their kid to be discriminated against by his own government. And that’s just fuckin weak.

Being opposed to affirmative action does not necessarily make you racist. It means you’re ignorant and gullible, but not necessarily racist.

Again, denying the fact that the justice system is biased against black people makes you a defender of racism. Doing so proudly, knowingly, makes you a racist.

Comment #149: asdf  on  07/26  at  06:16 PM

Gorgon, does it ever occur to you that the high murder rate in black communities might be from:

1.) the lack of resources ensured by white flight;

2.) the terrible policing policies that result in high numbers of black men getting thrown in prison for nonviolent or even false crimes, becoming unemployable, and having little to result to but a life of crime;

3.) common practices among private citizens that make getting hired, getting proper healthcare and getting good food far more difficult for impoverished black people;

4.) housing policies which have placed poor black people into such stark patterns of racial segregation and forced poverty that it would be called a caste system anywhere else in the world?

Of course not, because you’re post-racial.

Comment #150: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  06:17 PM

Wow. You’re like totally awesome. You *drove* ON Mt Vernon!!!!

In case you didn’t notice, I pointed out that I’ve actually spent time in the neighborhoods.  Do they not teach reading at White Citzens’ Council meetings anymore?

Comment #151: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  06:19 PM

Or do you want 6% of the country to commit half the murders?

Yeah, that’s pretty messed up.  We should be working for a country where 100% of the country commits 100% of the murders.  Or something.  I haven’t read The Turner Diaries in about ten years, so I have trouble following your logic sometimes.

Comment #152: wjts  on  07/26  at  06:19 PM

Gorgon, again, I beg you. You know and I know that pretending that you’re not a racist when you so obviously are is stressful.  You might get zits. Flounce out!  You promised you would. 

You made a serious mistake here in assuming that all the people reading your comments live in enclaves where they aren’t exposed to aggressive racism.  I don’t know about anyone else, but alas, I’m not so naive.  I know your type all too well, and know exactly how much the euphemisms and right wing talking points turn to outright racial slurs the second you think you’re in a safer environment.  And thanks to some of your comrades of low intelligence who don’t realize that email forwards and Facebook comments are easy to make public, white liberals who do live in sheltered environments are quickly learning.

Comment #153: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:22 PM

I’ve never done anything to anyone to hold them back. Therefore (OMG..get this!!) I dont suffer from this warped guilt complex that some here apparently are sticken with.

And I’ve never done anything to burn down a house, therefore (OMGZ) I don’t suffer from this warped guilt complex that I need to pay to put water on other people’s burning homes. 

Fucking fire departments.

Comment #154: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  06:22 PM

I haven’t read The Turner Diaries in about ten years, so I have trouble following your logic sometimes.

The unspoken “logic” Gorgon uses states that, therefore, blacks are genetically prone to criminal behavior and low intelligence.

Comment #155: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  06:22 PM

Oh, and that the “solution” to that is to have fewer black people.

I know Gorgon thinks like this, because when I pointed out that crime has been declining since 1991 despite the country becoming less white, he automatically assumed I was advocating the extermination/deportation of whites or something!

Comment #156: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  06:24 PM

I’ve never done anything to anyone to hold them back.

Just nodded approvingly when the police targeted black people for drug arrests and ignored the 6 times as many white drug users.

Comment #157: asdf  on  07/26  at  06:26 PM

There are places in this country where a white man would have shot this cop dead just for coming onto his property and been to go for the headshot by G Gordon Liddy, and been cheered on afterwards by people like you Gorgon, and most of talk radio.

And you damn well fucking know it so shut up.

Further, stop saying he doesn’t have “the right to cause a public disturbance and that’s what he was arrested for”.

The charges were dropped you dipshit.  And even though the charges were dropped and you weren’t there you still insist that he created a public disturbance. Why?  Becasue some white guy told you so.

Get fucked.

Comment #158: Lady Vader  on  07/26  at  06:36 PM

Thanks, Gorgon, for reminding me just how hard it is for a white guy to get ahead.  It’s been a good week or so since Pat Buchanan last did that for me and I had almost forgotten.  I admire your courage.

Comment #159: jTuba  on  07/26  at  06:37 PM

Get fucked.
Caton on 07/26 at 05:36 PM

Now, now Caton, fucking is fun.  Snakehead should get tarred and feather - or leave out the feathers, and tar him, then make him walk through one of those lily white neighborhoods he and his ilk reside in.  At night.  And the cops come in sirens screaming in like ..5 seconds.

Comment #160: phylosopher  on  07/26  at  06:40 PM

You still haven’t flounced, racist?  You keep promising this flouncing to the safety of your warm home where you can drop racial slurs with the freedom of knowing people will laugh indulgently, and yet you can’t let this one go.  Go to your wife and your friends who think your racism is cute.

These aren’t “assumptions”, by the way.  These are “reasonable conclusions based on experience”.

Comment #161: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  06:45 PM

“Here’s the truth: your ideology, radical leftism, feeds on racial and ethnic strife, as well as class, gender, etc… And you will try to take anything that happens, regardless of how not racist or benign it may be, and try your hardest to turn it into a racial issue. You need blacks and other minorities to be dependent on the dems. And with the tide turning against racial preferences, this right here was an opportunity for you to use to prove that these things - affirmative action, quotas, set asides, entitlements - are still necessary. After all, you have to keep doling out the freebees to get the votes! Unfortunately for you, this time it backfired, as the public is strongly on the side of Mr. Crowley. That must sting like a bitch, eh?”

SnakeHead, did you just spit out verbatim some bogus Limbaugh rant?  Here?  As if none of us have ever heard that shit before?  Are you serious?

I bet you’re the guy at work who forwards all the “funny” emails to your co-workers, who then cringe, hoping you’ll realize what an ass you make of yourself, and then pray you’ll have an epiphany and stop…

Comment #162: MikeEss  on  07/26  at  06:50 PM

“You’re the real racists. Rahowa!”

Comment #163: asdf  on  07/26  at  06:52 PM

Yeah man. That’s what we do here in the burbs. We blow up our houses. Happens all the time.

You’re hilarious! Tell me, how many times (be honest) have you or anyone you know been in a black neighborhood while a gun battle was going on. BB guns and paintball don’t count.

Just because COPS doesn’t show pissant white suburbanites like me doing stupid, drug related bullshit doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. You should move to small town Idaho and see if your idea of which race is more violent changes.

What if you’re a born douche? That’s a serious issue for some people.

Just as I refuse to believe anyone is born evil, racist, or a terrific dancer, I refuse to believe people can’t change their douchitude if they really want to. It’s the wanting part that’s hard to achieve.

Comment #164: limes  on  07/26  at  06:54 PM

Is it me, or does Gorgon sound as if he’s crying at this point?

Is it possible this is Glenn Beck?  You know, dont’ laugh, I used to post with a wingnut who assured me that he emailed my posts to Rush Limbaugh and Limbaugh used to email him back about me.  Yeah.  That’s right.  Some wingnut was having imaginary conversations with Rush Limbaugh about me. 

More convincingly, it has just been reported that an upstate NY newspaper which ran an article on immigration received some extremely racist comments.  Well, three of the commentors were traced back to the Dept of Homeland Security.  So, not only is it nice to know that our tax dollars are paying these fools to, well, “secure the homeland” and they are posting racist comments on the internet instead, but it also goes to show you, you never really know who you’re talking to on the internet.

Comment #165: Lady Vader  on  07/26  at  06:58 PM

Are you saying the lack of white people is the reason blacks commit so many murders? Seriously? Is that what you’re saying?

When you go to McDonald’s, do you look at the Big Mac and accuse them of grounding up a Scottish man and making his flesh into patties?

Comment #166: Jesse Taylor  on  07/26  at  07:10 PM

It struck me that Gorgon’s rant on 6% of the population commit half of the murders is fundamentally whacked.  What is the actual murder rate in the US?  According to DoJ, it is .04/1,000.  Even assuming that each and every murder has a unique perpetrator (an obviously false assumption), that means that 0.4% of the population is committing 100% of the murders.  When you control for socioeconomic status, the differences between whites and minorities largely disappear.  What you are seeing in those statistics is that black people are more likely to be poor and that more affluent people are less likely to murder each other.  Quelle surprise.  We have only known for over a century that crime strongly correlates with poverty.  If you go into a poor white marginalized community in the South (like some I have lived in) you will get very similar behavior.

Comment #167: DrDick  on  07/26  at  07:15 PM

Holy shit! I didn’t notice that 6% of the population thing!

Blacks only make up 13.4% of Americans! Do you really think nearly half of all black people are murderers? Really?

Comment #168: limes  on  07/26  at  07:27 PM

I’m happy to know there is always someone worse at math than me!

Comment #169: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  07:30 PM

I believe you definitely just smoked something Gorgon, but it wasn’t a dozen lefties.

Comment #170: Lady Vader  on  07/26  at  07:37 PM

Do you really think nearly half of all black people are murderers? Really?

No.  That blacks (not specifically black men actually) commit half of all murders in the US is true according to the DoJ.  It is also true that only 0.4% of Americans are murdered each year and somewhat fewer people than that are responsible for all of those murders, so only a small percentage of blacks are committing murders.  On the other hand black men are eight (8) times more likely to get murdered than white men are.

In regard to my comment about poor southern whites being murderous cretins (mind you those are my people), I should point out that all of the states with the highest murder rates, except for Nevada, are in the South.  Louisiana actually leads the nation with over 9/100,000.

Comment #171: DrDick  on  07/26  at  07:38 PM

Lets just assume this is Bizarro World and Gorgon is absolutely spot on. What should we DO about all those murderous blacks then, Gorgon? Let’s hear your final solution.

Comment #172: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  07:41 PM

Gorgon:

1) Most here do not only not respect cops, but have *less* respect for them than the average citizen.

Yes, because dehumanizing the police to the point that you insist that they’re axiomatically incapable of doing anything wrong is so respectful.

Fascism is not its own justification.

2) Most here think you should be able to cause a ruckus in public and not be held accountable for it

Setting aside the question of whether someone’s own front porch even ought to qualify as “public” in the first place, what most here probably think — i.e., what they actually think, not what you just assume they think because you’re too narcissistic to listen to what they’re actually saying to you — that a cop luring someone out of their house and into “public” after having established that it was that person’s own home constitutes a blatant abuse of power, not a legitimate cause for arrest.

3) Most here (obviously) are committed leftists, who will use an incident like this to try to convince the masses that things such as entitlements, affirmative action, hiring quotas, contract set-asides for minorities are still necessary. The tide is turning against these things, and the left is getting desperate to find a way to still justify supporting these racist policies.

Ironically, people like Gorgon are proof that those things are, in fact, still necessary.

4) Most here believe the default setting for white police officers, and white men in general, is “racist.”

Supported by both statistical and anecdotal data. Ironically also supported by Gorgon’s own behaviour.

Personally, I don’t believe that most white people are actively racist. That’s a slightly different thing, though.

5) Most here will accuse a white person that will not allow themselves to be bullied by race hustlers such as Gates of being a racist. The code phrase “spewing hate” is often used as well to try to intimidate self-respecting whites such as myself and officer crowley into silence, or in his case, an un-necessary apology.

That’s not self-respect, fella, that’s personal exceptionalism. There’s a pretty big difference.

This type of crap is starting to come to an end. FINALLY.

Threat duly noted. Sadly, if you do ever get the race war you really want, you will quickly realize that there are a lot more of us than there are of you. Some of us even have relevant historical-cultural experiences in our backgrounds.

I honestly get the impression that we could have Mr. Gates on film, in public, going absolutely batshit crazy, causing a public disturbance, and no one here would ever admit that it would be an arrestable offense, particularly if the officer was white. It would have been interesting to see Mr. Gates’ reaction if a minority officer had arrested him. What excuse would he use then? Would he even have been angry? I doubt it. The man just does not like white cops, and he is guilty of stereotyping Mr. Crowley because of his race. The real bigot (and snob) here is Gates.

You know what I love? I love how the opinions of the people here are based on reading Crowley’s own police report, while the opinions of Gorgon and his ilk are based on “I know you are, but what am I” and fuck-all else.

6) This place is kook central. But it’s entertaining to actually find people that have such a fucked up view of things.

Sure. Because nothing says “I have completely normal attitudes towards about black people” like repeatedly displaying the gibbering, existential terror you feel towards black people in the least self-aware way possible.

I have a couple of hints for you, Gorgon:

1) If you have to lie to get your point across, you don’t have a fucking point.

2) If you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, your opinion doesn’t count.

3) If you’re going to be a bigot, stop being a pansy and just fucking own it. Claiming that pointing out racism is, like, totally more racist than actually being racist is quite possibly the single most chickenshit argument in the history of human social discourse.

Comment #173: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/26  at  07:42 PM

Gorgon obviously cannot read a chart, since the DoJ statistic is for murders by race, not by race and sex.

Comment #174: DrDick  on  07/26  at  07:42 PM

Wait - Gorgon said that 6% of the population commit half the murders. He implied that those 6% are all black. If blacks are in total 13.4% of the population, then nearly 1/2 of blacks must have murdered someone according to Gorgon (not the DoJ), mustn’t they?

I’m a physics major - I hope I haven’t just kicked myself out of my program.

Comment #175: limes  on  07/26  at  07:50 PM

Gorgon:

I just smoked a dozen lefties in a debate.

Yay me.

If you actually had the first fucking clue what debate really is, you’d know that you don’t get to declare your own victories. Especially not when you do it a dozen comments after your “I’m taking my ball and going home” flounce-off declaration.

At that point, it’s just sad.

Comment #176: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/26  at  07:51 PM

I read the police report- there’s nothing even in THERE to suggest that he did anything worthy of being arrested.

Comment #177: Antigone  on  07/26  at  07:52 PM

At that point, it’s just sad.

Pathetic actually.  The only thing Gorgon has been smoking is the tailpipe of his car.

Comment #178: DrDick  on  07/26  at  08:12 PM

Man, flouncey McFlounceracist keeps threatening to flounce, and then doesn’t do it.  But at least he admitted that he takes pleasure in being a mega-asshole because getting a rise out of liberals is fun for him.  Since he can’t get a rise out of people by being witty or being interesting, he’ll have to be an asshole. But we’re the sad, broken people, even though none of us consider getting attention by being an aggressive asshole a good use of our time.

Flounce, flounce, flounce away, my child!

Comment #179: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/26  at  08:13 PM

DrDick:

Pathetic actually. The only thing Gorgon has been smoking is the tailpipe of his car.

I actually wrote “pathetic” at first. Then I changed it to “sad and pathetic” but thought that was too wordy, and settled on just “sad.”

Damn my editor’s eye.

Comment #180: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/26  at  08:17 PM

I think Gorgon finally passed out from drinking that case of Natty Ice.

Comment #181: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  08:34 PM

All right, I’m skipping the last couple hours of comments to respond to something the Gorgon said (wait…Gorgons are female. Does “Gorgon” here know that? “Gorgon” does not come off as female) about white liberals being self-loathing. Correction! White folks who disdain racism and white supremacy are not self-loathing. We tend to think we are fine and dandy. It’s other people, the white folks who are douchebags and give white people a bad name, that invite the loathing. They are not “self” to me.

Comment #182: Orange  on  07/26  at  08:39 PM

And Gorgon, I live in Chicago’s most diverse neighborhood. Not the most black neighborhood, but the one that’s the most mixed—black, white, Latino, Asian, Native American, immigrant. Ranging from homeless to poor to middle class to affluent.

Comment #183: Orange  on  07/26  at  08:49 PM

This is a rare troll, folks!  Quick! capture her and put her in a zoo!  We can sell tickets and be rich!rich!rich!

Comment #184: shah8  on  07/26  at  08:56 PM

I believe that’s what were all waiting to see. From what I’ve read thus far, the dashcam video is damning evidence against mr. gates.

That’s why there still are charges pending against Dr. Gates, right?

Oh, wait . . .

Comment #185: teac  on  07/26  at  09:00 PM

teac -

Don’t bother trying to confuse poor little Gorgon with facts, he has already amply demonstrated tha he is impervious to them.

Comment #186: DrDick  on  07/26  at  09:27 PM

Orange -

I think an even better contrast is that not only do we not loath our selves, we also do not loath people his skins happen to be darker than ours.  Cretinous troglodytes like gorgon on the other hand….

Comment #187: DrDick  on  07/26  at  09:30 PM

The dashcam?  Was a squadcar driven up to the front door?  I didn’t see any mention of that in the report.

Comment #188: 3letterjon  on  07/26  at  09:49 PM

Okay, this thread blew up, but Gorgon:

<blockquote
>The cop would have left, but Gates insisted he give him his id. Fine, fair enough. At this point, that type of behavior *can be* categorized as unlawful, and Gates was arrested. </blockquote>

Requesting an officer’s ID can’t be categorized as unlawful.  In fact, in MA, officers are required to give out their names and badge numbers in writing.  So, according to Crowley’s report, he’d been requested to give his ID twice and had only done so verbally, in violation of the law.  When requested a third time, instead of handing over the card or writing it down, he told Gates he would only do so if Gates left his home.

That’s Crowley’s version.  In that version of events, CROWLEY is violating the law. 

No matter what Gates said in the house, Crowley couldn’t arrest him until he tempted him out, and he enticed him out of the house by breaking the law by refusing to give Gates his name and ID in writing. 

Seriously, what the fuck?  Why didn’t Crowley hand over his info and tell Gates “Sorry for the inconvenience.  Glad to know you’re okay” and LEAVE?  That’s his job—assess the situation, determine no crime was in effect, and leave.  Who cares if Gates called his chief?  Crowley hadn’t done anything wrong at this point (except for continuing to call for backup when he knew there was no crime).

He admits that he believed Gates was the resident.  He admits he only told Gates his name verbally, and that he knew Gates didn’t hear him.  In MA that’s a violation because he’s REQUIRED to give it in writing.

Crowley fucked up.

I’ve said it a dozen times.  Read the police report.  Race doesn’t need to enter into it, though I’m thoroughly convinced it was a factor.  Determination of fact vs. lies doesn’t even need to factor in, since Crowley’s own version of the event in his police report damns him.

Crowley needs to be suspended pending investigation at a minimum.  He abused his authority and violated MA law.

Why didn’t he leave?  Why didn’t he give his ID?  What was the point of arresting Gates, who couldn’t even be said to be disturbing the public until Crowley, by breaking the law, told him to come out.

More than that, in MA police officers are not allowed to be the ones who are “disturbed” by anything anyone says during an incident.  It has to be a civilian complaint.

Don’t believe Gates.  You don’t have to.  Just believe Crowley.  Read his report and you will see that Crowley fucked this one up royally.  Was he being racist or just an asshole?  Doesn’t really matter, since he has responsibilities as an officer and he decided to break the law instead.

Comment #189: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  07/26  at  09:50 PM

Anyhow, Jesse, it was a brilliant post and I think that, deep down inside, the douchebag racist troll knows it.

Comment #190: DonnaDiva  on  07/26  at  10:22 PM

Yay me.

I’m thinking he broke down weeping after writing this.

Comment #191: tb  on  07/26  at  11:43 PM

Oh, and Amanda, one other thing:  I want my old name back.  Undo the ban and put my old posts back up.

He also wants a million dollars. And a Ferrari. Now!

Comment #192: Ben D.  on  07/26  at  11:57 PM

is that really Gorgon? did he just spend all goddamn day yelling about how everyone is unfairly calling him racist then go and post this:

Sounds nightmarish.  I’m going to assume you believe your neighborhood is an accurate example or what we can expect in the America of the future.  What exactly is it going to take to convince you that most whites don’t like blacks?  Obviously Huntingdon Valley and the overwhelming white support for the officer who arrested Gates isn’t going to convince you, so what will?  Do we all need to join the Klan to make our feelings about blacks and hispanics clear?

what a useless sack of flesh. i hope his son grows up, marries a strong jewish feminist of color, and never talks to him again.

Comment #193: jessilikewhoa  on  07/27  at  12:01 AM

or a nice jewish man of color. either outcome leaves me gleeful.

Comment #194: jessilikewhoa  on  07/27  at  12:01 AM

Oh, and Gorgon/otisthesweatyII?

You didn’t do the research:

http://www.hvccpa.org/Club/Scripts/Home/home.asp

Comment #195: Ben D.  on  07/27  at  12:02 AM

also

PMSing

makes me giggle. oh Amanda, so emotional and irrational, must be them hormones actin’ up. /snark

Comment #196: jessilikewhoa  on  07/27  at  12:03 AM

Haha the jackass got deleted again.

He is probably in a fit of rage now, slamming at his keyboard, desperately searching for another proxy and cursing the “coloreds and jews” as we speak.

Comment #197: Ben D.  on  07/27  at  12:06 AM

Oh, I just rebanned Gorgon/OTSII.  It’s my negrism acting up again.

Comment #198: Jesse Taylor  on  07/27  at  12:07 AM

So he WAS the same person? Wow.

Let’s recap:

*Gorgon starts the thread by saying we live in post-racial America, and black people are the REAL racists, anyway.

*Gorgon then strenuously denies he is racist when called out.

*Gorgon ends the thread by talking about joining the Klan.

Okay! Wow.

Comment #199: Ben D.  on  07/27  at  12:10 AM

It’s my negrism acting up again.

you should get some sort of anti-inflamatory medication.

Comment #200: jessilikewhoa  on  07/27  at  12:27 AM

He is probably in a fit of rage now, slamming at his keyboard, desperately searching for another proxy and cursing the “coloreds and jews” as we speak.

Yup. By now he’s gone full Glenn Beck, shrieking like Yamatsuka Eye, punching holes in the wall of his shitty little single-wide.

Comment #201: tb  on  07/27  at  12:44 AM

Oh, there he is. Hey, Gorgan, did you know that your son is going to grow up to renounce your ass? I don’t say that maliciously- it’s just a happy fact, and there’s nothing you can do about it. It happens all the time to people like you- kids just decide they’re not going to be assholes like their parents.

Comment #202: tb  on  07/27  at  12:51 AM

Gorgon you old dinosaur, I have negative interest in what you think of my character. I do however apologize for assuming one racist troll for another, but you have to understand, you were the only racist troll in this thread, so when another popped up yelping about being banned it was impossible to not assume it was you, our original racist troll. Mea culpa.

Comment #203: jessilikewhoa  on  07/27  at  12:54 AM

This is insanely late and random, but I just got back from traveling to Ohio to see my girlfriend, and go to Cedar Point.

We went Friday because it looked like it was going to pour on Saturday.  But I guess it was fine?

Just weird.  Back to mostly lurking!

Comment #204: Ferox  on  07/27  at  01:13 AM

I’m still reading comments. but i had to stop and respond to this bullshit

Gorgon:
“Go get a house on Mt. Vernon Ave in Columbus and then tell me how fucking tolerant you are”

i live *VERY* close to Mt. Vernon. i live pretty much on the corner of 11th and 4th, just a couple miles north from Mt. Vernon. (and if you believe the police reports, there’s more crime *here*. on the other hand, thats mostly because of all the fucking college students who are fucking stupid and/or evil). we had a serial rapist for a couple of years; police and campus security kept putting out warnings, with those drawings that are supposed to be “composites” based on what victims remember? so all the stuff said things like “Black Man, approx 25 years, 6’-6’3” tall, approx 200 pounds” etc, etc. turns out it was a WHITE frat guy. who was 5’10” tall and weighed *maybe* 160 pounds.

I live here, in my apartment, with my black boyfriend.

my best friend still lives in the house we used to share, right off Parkwood, which is right off of Mt. Vernon (well, right after it turns into Greenway. like 100 ft after it turns into Greenway)

so…
shut the fuck up.

Comment #205: denelian  on  07/27  at  04:20 AM

the woman who works in the cube across from me has adopted several children from South America.
One day, she related the many, many incidents that she and her kids have gone through in this wonderful “post-racial” country.
One of them being just this last March when one of the kids was having issues at school.
The principal said to my co-worker “Well, now that Obama is president we are really disappointed that [child’s name] is having these problems still.”
I mean, WTF.

Comment #206: Danica Lefse Queen  on  07/27  at  04:20 AM

so, I’m still *still* reading, but again:

Gorgon -

have you READ the *cop’s* report?
the cop ENTERED GATES HOME ILLEGALLY. and the ARRESTED GATES ON HIS FRONT PORCH. and, a thing to remember is - YOU FRON PORCH IS *STILL* YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY

so, NO, the cop DID NOT have the right to arrest Gates for “making a public disturbance” on his own private property in the middle of the DAY

were it 2am, there might be a case, but NOT at 2PM

Comment #207: denelian  on  07/27  at  04:37 AM

Gorgon:

Disagreeing on an issue, no problem, but blatantly lying about what someone has or hasn’t said- very trashy and unprofessional.

And as we all know, misattributing a quote is, like, a million times worse than being a gibbering fascist.

Comment #208: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/27  at  07:03 AM

It occurs to me that police are about the only people allowed to abuse customers who tell them they aren’t doing their jobs well.

It’s almost as if we expect people who are at work to act professional, even if they are interacting with people who aren’t at work, and aren’t being professional. When I worked customer service on telephones, I could only hang up if someone was cursing at me, and I had to warn them before doing it.

Funny how we expect even teenagers doing minimum wage jobs to act with MORE intelligence, patience, forbearance and politeness than we do men armed with guns

In fact, I would bet that the very people who claim the policeman was justified would say they have every right to call a cashier a moron when the cash register won’t work. Because it isn’t about the actual behavior, but the power of the people exercising it.

Comment #209: Samantha Vimes  on  07/27  at  08:10 AM

Gorgon:

Looks like this may have been nothing more than “staged racial oppression.”

Jeebus. The irony is practically Shakespearean.

Comment #210: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/27  at  10:38 AM

There was a long <a >discussion</a> about this on Ta-Nehisi Coates’ blog (based on an article he linked in which the writer said that being called racist today is worse than being called n*****), until he finally had to close the discussion thread. The sticking point for some of his white commenters seems to be that (and several said this explicitly) they are taught from a young age that being a racist is the worst thing you can be, that it is basically the equivalent of being a Klansman or a Nazi. Hence the extreme defensiveness whenever anyone suggests that someone has done or said anything racist.

There are two huge problems with this. The first is, it leaves us with no language to discuss the far more common incidences of racism that take place everyday in this country. One white commenter talked about this, saying even if you soft-step it, by saying something like, “What you just said reminds me of the the lack of awareness caused by white privilege,” then the person will still respond, “How dare you call me racist!” And sure enough, someone responded to his post in just that way, proving his point.

The second problem is that it leads people to deny that anything short of cross-burning, lynching, and gas chambers is racism, or even really a problem, at all. Several commenters made the assertion that the consequences of being unjustly accused of racism are much more severe than the consequences of being called n*****. (TNC wrote very humorously in an earlier post that when the Nation of Islam starts hunting down Jeff Sessions while shouting, “Get the racist!” or whole blocks start relocating because a racist moves in, then we can talk about them being comparable!).

Anyway, several people called the commenters out on this, asking them to produce examples of people suffering unjustly from accusations of racism. One guy (the only one who responded) came back with such examples as Trent Lott, Jimmy the Greek, Michael Richards and Don Imus. In other words, folks who have said some blatantly racist things, and suffered some career setbacks as a result. So if they consider those consequences unjust, then they really don’t think racism is a problem. At that point, how can you even have a discussion?

Comment #211: Monala  on  07/27  at  11:48 AM

Unapologetic white guy commenting!

Drives you guys nuts, don’t it????

B- for effort, D+ for execution.

Overall, Gorgon shows a marked lack of ability to diversify his trolling and comebacks. Shows repeated fallback to “I’m white neener neener” arguments. Uses links more likely to inspire guffaws, laughter (WND) than outrage, bellowing.

We would recommend that Gorgon return to a more elementary level of trolling. He seems to have missed some of the key lessons of Stage 2, namely creativity and provocation, so repeating the Cute Overload assignments should repair some of his defects. We believe Gorgon could someday become a functional troll if he applies himself.

Comment #212: limes  on  07/27  at  12:34 PM

Really late to the party on this, I realize, but I had to respond to Gorgon about the lack of respect for police officers.  I, personally, have plenty of respect for good police officers and absolutely zero for bad officers like Crowley.  Yes, I am a white liberal, but I was taught this behavior/mindset by my Republican grandfather, a retired chief of police.  He has less respect for bad police officers than I do and he proudly tells stories of all of the bad officers he fired back in the day.  Furthermore, I have seen him stand up to police officers who were abusing their authority multiple times in my life.  Of course, being both white and having a badge in his wallet next to his driver’s license means that he was never arrested for it.

Comment #213: Atheist, A Feminist  on  07/27  at  03:24 PM

Did our resident Klan wannabe honestly just try to use One Neuron Daily as a legitimate information source?!

Comment #214: TheRealistMom  on  07/27  at  04:18 PM

Whew, I just got through that massive threadjack.  Back to Jesse’s original essay.

I have not heard anyone, conservative or liberal, say without irony that Obama’s election marked the beginning of or means that we are already in a post-racial society.  It seems like a straw man to me.

A lot of black folks think Obama’s election was an important sign of racial progress in America.  Is that even an arguable point?  It’s my impression that most people would expect a teacher caught calling a student the N word would be fired, even the people who aren’t offended by the notion.  Some things just aren’t socially acceptable any more, and that’s a good thing.

Obama’s election means, among other things, that a lot of white people are willing to vote for a black man.  I imagine there are many African Americans who didn’t believe that was possible.  I’m glad those who were fixed in such anger and distrust of white folk were proven wrong. 

I’m glad Obama reversed himself on the “acted stupidly” comment on the Gates case.  I hope that he will keep his powder dry on such incidents in the future until he knows more of the facts.

Comment #215: MiddleageLiberal  on  07/27  at  05:40 PM

Kool-Aid equals black? Who knew? Every household with school-age children had Kool-Aid when I grew up - children were much more likely to be served Kool-Aid than carbonated drinks, probably because of the cost and the caffeine (no caffeine-free colas back then), and I grew up in a well-to-do white neighborhood. Besides, Kool-Aid was frozen into home-made popsicles and so on.

Comment #216: NancyP  on  07/27  at  08:51 PM

Kool-Aid equals black? Who knew? Every household with school-age children had Kool-Aid when I grew up - children were much more likely to be served Kool-Aid than carbonated drinks, probably because of the cost and the caffeine (no caffeine-free colas back then), and I grew up in a well-to-do white neighborhood. Besides, Kool-Aid was frozen into home-made popsicles and so on.
NancyP on 07/27 at 07:51 PM

My childhood was in the segregated South of the fifties and early sixties before my family moved to the de facto segregated north central U.S. I’m reasonably well acquainted with stereotypes applied to AA.  I never heard the Kool-Aid stereotype for AA until this past presidential campaign.  Drinking the kool-aid has been associated with blindly and unthinkingly following a leader since Jim Jones, but its use as a racial stereotype is very recent in my observation.  The fact that the food or drink is enjoyed across racial spectrums doesn’t prevent it from application as a stereotype, though, as seen with fried chicken and watermelon,  staples for all races—Particularly in the South.

Comment #217: MiddleageLiberal  on  07/27  at  10:35 PM

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=7406

Police backing police. Geez, how surprising.

In other news, we have testimony of 10 different Hell’s Angels saying Mom Boucher is *totally* not a murderer.

Gang members defend fellow gang members.

Comment #218: BlackBloc  on  07/27  at  10:55 PM

MiddleageLiberal:
I’d never heard the Kool-Aid thing either, but I think the adoption/expansion(?) of this stereotype really demonstrates how fixated the right-wing is on Obama’s race.  I first noticed the Kool-Aid thing during the campaign as a Jim Jones-cult thing (blinding following “the messiah” Gorgon so sweetly mentions - ick).  Once the association between Obama and Kool-Aid was established, much of the traditional cult meaning was buried under the new(?) link between blackness and Kool-Aid simply because the right cannot even think about Obama without “OMG! Black!” screaming through their minds.  The reference to the cult was an attempt to insult Obama’s supporters while also providing some rationale for why any self-respecting white person would consider elevating a non-white to a position of power.  Eventually, they dialed back the attacks on supporters and stopped bothering with the why, leaving us with just Kool-Aid/Obama/Black as either a brand-new or old, but now mainstream racial stereotype.  ‘Cuz we just didn’t have enough of those.  (cue eyeroll)

Comment #219: Atheist, A Feminist  on  07/27  at  11:54 PM

By “dialed back the attacks on supporters,” I mean decided to focus mainly on attacking Obama.  They obviously haven’t gotten nicer or more respectful towards the left.

Comment #220: Atheist, A Feminist  on  07/27  at  11:58 PM

BlackBloc - that was really funny smile

Gorgon -
sure, i can be arrested for standing on my front porching yelling at 2pm. it will be a false arrest, and i will sue the fuck out of whoever does it.
then again, *you* be arrested for driving. false arrests happen. the mere fact that they happen doesn’t make them legal.

sure, Gates was probably acting angry. i would be too if a cop ENTERED MY HOME WITHOUT PERMISSION, CONTINIOUSLY REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH MASSACHUSETS STATE LAW BY PROVIDING ME WITH WRITEEN ID, CONTINIOUSLY REFUSED TO *LEAVE* MY PRIVATE PROPERTY WHEN I TOLD HIM TO, AND CONTINUED TO BE AN ASS AT *ME*

and please note every fucking thing i listed there is based on NOTHING but the police report that THE COP cubmitted.

then go away. you are tiresome. i get so sick of bigots.

Comment #221: denelian  on  07/28  at  12:50 AM

And for the record, Snakehead is wrong about the 911 burglary and soemthign called warrantless entry, to wit:
  http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/consent,exigent-circumstances,warrantless-home-entry.shtml

http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=warrantless_entry_without_an&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

For the most part, Snakeass, the officer must have reaosn to believe he is in “hot pursuit” of a criminal who has committed a crime of felony (as opposed to misdemeanor) , that another human is inimmnent danger, or that evidence is being destroyed.  And those conditions have pretty tight parameters as set by SCOTUS. 
Today, we have Lucia Whalen, the original caller to 911, claiming that she never specified a “black” male, and the 911 tapes corroborate it, according to the WDC police. 

So what we have is Crowley, knowing only that there was a possible burglary, arresting a disabled 58 y o man in his own home after illegally entering said home. Crowly owes apology and needs some remedial training.

Snakeshit, on the other hand, needs a keyboard revocation.

Comment #222: phylosopher  on  07/28  at  01:36 AM

I’d never heard the Kool-Aid thing either, but I think the adoption/expansion(?) of this stereotype really demonstrates how fixated the right-wing is on Obama’s race.

it’s very much an expansion, if anything. I have no idea where it originated, but I’ve heard the racist stereotype about black people loving kool-aid for as long as I can recall (for a time reference i’m 28). it doesn’t have anything to do with Obama or the Jim Jones drink the kool-aid thing. it isn’t a reference to following blindly. if I can make any assumption about the myth of the kool-aid obsessed black people it would be rooted in poverty. in the same way we pictured reagan’s welfare queen as black, poverty is somehow coded as something primarily involving people of color (brought on by themselves, of course) in this country. kool-aid is really fucking cheap, so if you’re poor and you want something besides water kool-aid is a budget friendly choice. it might also relate back to the lack of availability of healthy foods in poor urban neighborhoods, you might not be able to find real grape juice, but purple grape drink is pretty common. in addition a decent sized subsect of middle and upper class parents wouldn’t be caught dead with their children drinking kool-aid due to the large amount of refines sugar, artificial colors, and artificial flavors involved. my family was poor but lived in an artsy middle class town and my mother was vehemently opposed to my drinking kool-aid. i was also never served it at any friend’s homes. my experiences with kool-aid happened instead with my cousins in their rural working class town.

Comment #223: jessilikewhoa  on  07/28  at  01:53 AM

Then it is an expansion, but I still believe that when mainstream “drinking the Kool-Aid” for cult-like behavior and regional(?), less mainstream Kool-Aid is for poor blacks collide and the lesser known somehow becomes dominant, racist attitudes on the side tossing around such insults has something to do with that.

I’m 26 and I was also not allowed Kool-Aid for nutrition reasons.  It was strongly implied (if not outright claimed) that Kool-Aid was for poor whites who didn’t know any better or couldn’t afford anything else.  I can certainly see how that would have been applied similarly to other underprivileged groups.

Comment #224: Atheist, A Feminist  on  07/28  at  02:38 AM

Gorgon:

Rrrrrrrrrt…...

Vrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooooooooooooooommm…...

What’s that? Oh, it’s the sound of you kooks (and your beloved messiah) driving right over the cliff. Keep on doublin’ down on stupid!

The sounds you’re hearing are actually just your spree-killing fantasies fluttering against the inside of your skull. I’ve heard that things like that can make quite a racket. Unfortunately for your future victims, no one else can hear them.

On the other hand, out here in reality, we’re still waiting for you to take your ball and go home like you said you would do yesterday.

Comment #225: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/28  at  03:55 AM

....a decent sized subsect of middle and upper class parents wouldn’t be caught dead with their children drinking kool-aid due to the large amount of refines sugar, artificial colors, and artificial flavors involved.

Really?  I never spent much time with the granola and brown rice crowd, even in grad school.  Kool Aid came out with artificial sweeteners (although maybe those were/are considered evil, too) so we could make it (and Jello) without a lot of sugar.  Why pick on Kool Aid for artificial coloring or flavors?

Kids get thirsty when they are active in warm weather.  They need/want liquids and would gravitate to the friends’ houses that made sweet drinks available over water or iced tea. Kool Aid was, and still is, a relatively harmless alternative that can be provided in bulk and quickly if necessary to slake the thirsts of even the small hoards of young-uns.

Comment #226: MiddleageLiberal  on  07/28  at  09:19 AM

We always had Kool-Aid when I was a kid.  One of the great things about Kool-Aid is that you can get it unsweetened and add sugar to taste, allowing you much more control over sugar content than with most packaged drinks.
And, of course, you can dye stuff with it, though if you are watching a friend’s poofy white dog you should not allow your daughter to dye it with pink lemonade Kool-Aid, and you should definitely not go out and buy cherry Kool-Aid so she can dye it darker pink.  Happened to a friend of ours.  Imagine cotton candy with legs.

Comment #227: Ledasmom  on  07/28  at  01:40 PM

At least in my little corner of the granola and brown rice crowd (as a child, not really at all anymore), Jello was bad too.  When we had “jello,” it was unflavored gelatin made with 100 percent fruit juice.

Comment #228: Atheist, A Feminist  on  07/28  at  04:36 PM

I’m REALLY late to the thread, but I just have to say that I advocate discriminating against Gorgon’s son.  I await the jackbooted stomping.

Comment #229: Iam138  on  07/29  at  06:58 PM
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