@1: COOL STORY BRO!!!!

To quote Lenny: “I hear Miss Springfield isn’t as beautiful as she appears.  The word is…she uses appearance-altering cosmetics!”

Everyone knows that celebrities wear makeup, of course, but it’s remarkable how easy it is to just forget HOW much it is - and how much that’s enhanced by lighting, editing, etc.  Suddenly, you’re lining yourself up in a purely unfair fight.

Most OTC stuff just briefly manages the symptoms of acne. Unfortunately, you have to go to a dermatologist and get prohibitively expensive prescription products for permanent results. The price is what sucked people in to proactiv. It’s not cheap like clearisil or expensive like the dangerous accutane. Being in the middle gave people a false sense of hope that it worked any better than the $5 stuff.

I do like the refining mask, although I’ll concede I could probably find another one.

THANK YOU for sharing this, Amanda.  I purchased Proactiv years ago as a desperate teenager (when it still cost $40 an order—WTF?!) and started crying as soon as I unpacked it—upon reading through the ingredients and directions, I realized it was the same products and basic regimen I had been using for years, just packaged under a different name and sold as a set.  When venting my frustrations and desperation about my complexion to friends and family, they’d immediately ask if I’d tried Proactiv yet, and thanks to that aggressive marketing campaign, would then question me as to whether or not I was using it correctly, because, after all, it had been so successful for Vanessa Williams and Jessica Simpson and all five of their pimples.  Seriously, someone who was so affected by her complexion that she’d cancel plans over the embarrassment of a breakout wouldn’t take every step and precaution to be certain she was using it correctly?!  While I’m sure it’s worked for some people with mild acne, the commercials are clearly aimed at moderate to severe cases.  These are the people shelling out the majority of the money, and the people for whom this regimen simply isn’t effective for.  Though I’ve been fortunate enough to grow out of the worst of it, I am still very aware of the products and industry, and it blows me away that Proactiv is even more pervasive now than it was a decade ago (and their list of celebrity spokespeople has grown ten-fold).  Acne was absolutely devastating to my self-esteem, and to see these same people making an easy dollar off of someone’s desperation years later sickens me.

The “active compound” isn’t the whole story, though, is it?  It’s used differently.  The classic benzoyl peroxide product is a thick paste that you leave on your face overnight.  That’s not how you use this (full disclosure, I’m a satisfied customer who was initially _extremely_ skeptical).  This is like a scrub-and-moisturizer combo.

Ugh, Accutane… shudder

It’s been almost two decades, and I still have to disclose every time I give blood that I was on that awful gunk (complete with macrocephalitic fetus images on the blister packs) when I was in high school. (It’s one of the medications considered so incredibly dire in its side effects that it’s on the “have you ever in your life taken one of these” list)

I’ll point out that the experimentally-based recommendation from xkcd is benzoyl peroxide soap. (check the mouseover text)

I guess the only other method I had ever tried was the toothpaste-like clearasil-ish stuff and equivalents.  It could well be that branded Proactiv is simply the same sort of thing other people (in light of Secret Agent Norman’s comment above) had tried, and the apparent success is not the product itself but the method.

accutane? I think that’s what I took, 30 years ago. It worked.  Gad. 

what was the crap Pat Boone used to shill for some years back??

Accutane, ugh ugh ugh.  I can’t believe that I took that shit.  I was unable to sit on the floor instead of the sofa because it made my bones hurt so much while I was on it.

My dermatologist was a jerk and an idiot who has now been disbarred (but, you know family friend!) but I’m sure that stuff has probably affected my long-term health.

@FlipYrWhig:

Indeed, for many cases of wide-spread acne, benzoyl peroxide soap used as a facial wash is better than the gel, especially if you combine the gel with something stupid like using a typical hand soap to wash your face. (what I initially tried in high school)

And ProActiv supplies that, but it is far, far from the only brand that does. The widest spread brand to do exactly the same thing but without the celebrity endorsement price tag is probably Neutrogena. (And these days, some places even have store brands of that)

Well, and all the internal security and self-esteem in the world doesn’t change the realities of bad skin.  We are pack animals.  What others think of us matters.  In a way, telling someone with bad skin, “Hey, your main problem is insecurity!” is unfair.  Their problem is bad skin, and how people treat you and think of you when you have bad skin.  Physical flaws create more than low self-esteem.  There’s actual discrimination.

I went to a dermatologist and got the antibiotics as a teenager. Didn’t work, either.  What did work was going on the pill, and it’s fascinating to me how much of the medical establishment in some areas tiptoes around that for fear of tripping up sexual anxieties.

Paula Begoun called Proactiv on this years ago.  As a general rule, if a company does not cite supporting peer reviewed studies (I only know one skin care company that does this) I assume most of their claims are probably lies.  There is just no reason to not provide a brief lit review when you are selling skin care products to people who are probably not dermatology or chemistry experts, unless you are trying to dupe them.

I’m pretty sure that the tiny magnets they put in Proactiv is what makes it work so well.

Amanda @17: same here.  I went to a dermatologist for YEARS who put me on a series of different antibiotics and never once suggested the pill.  My skin didn’t clear up until I went on the pill for other reasons.  Part of me wonders if my doctor didn’t suggest anything other than antibiotics because he assumed that I was somehow being “noncompliant.”

The reason it “works” is that people will follow a “system” where they might be less inclined to use a tube of cheap stuff from CVS.

In my son’s case, he tried a trial packet of Proactiv and it made his face turn bright red.  Back to the cheap generic version of OxyClearasilWhatever for him.

Oh, and I have also been teaching my sons the value of LEAVE YOUR SKIN ALONE.

I know that doesn’t work for everyone, but my acne got a lot better when I stopped buggaring with it so much and just washed my face with clear water and, maybe, a low-cost scrub every three days or so. 

It worked wonders on my son’s bleached-and-dyed hair to just stop shampooing it so much. Soap is for dirty oily skin and hair - most dirt will just rinse off with plain water.

One more thing @mamram and @amanda: there is a subset of women who get acne or worse acne on the pill.  YMMV.

Count me among those who took Accutane and totally regret it—the side effects weren’t the worst (dryness, nosebleeds, way-elevated cholesterol/triglycerides, plus a whopping cold-sore outbreak), but a) it only really worked for a couple of years, and b) I swear my metabolism changed for the worse.  The blood-donation thing became a problem mostly because my arm veins practically disappeared with the constant blood testing during treatment, so now it’s a huge hassle to just get a couple of vials for routine tests.  And what really sucks is that my acne wasn’t even cystic, but just very inflammatory and stress-related—I took Accutane because I was thirty and insurance wouldn’t cover retinoids, assuming I’d aged into wrinkle (i.e., cosmetic) territory.

Back to the original point, I never bought Proactiv because I did read the ingredient lists, although I think their percentages and delivery (types of gels/creams, etc.) may be pretty well balanced.  Neutrogena has a 2.5% BP and a 2% salicylic acid lotion that would probably work as well.  I’m 41 and would rather devote my acne-fighting efforts to my eye bags, to be honest, but it just ain’t happening.  My dermatologist is pretty laid-back, and we work on all the major fronts—bacteria, cell turnover, hormones, & inflammation—while trying to minimize side effects.  The best topical med she gave me is Aczone, which is anti-inflammatory and IIRC a med for leprosy (!) in its oral form.  Also pretty expensive.  I take BCPs with an anti-androgen profile and am weaning off spironolactone (an old diuretic that acts as an androgen blocker); topical clindamycin is a spot treatment and I use Retin-A sparingly.  I’ll never have a great complexion, but at least I don’t spend 10-15 minutes a day applying concealer any more.

Modern American bigcorps and the MBA mentality in a nutshell: focus everything on marketing, and nothing on actually improving the product. I mean, why put money into R&D;or innovation when you can scam the consumer into paying more for the same old product (or, better yet, for outright woo)?

This story goes hand-in-hand with Bittman’s takedown of McDonald’s “healthy” oatmeal that you posted about last week.

@Libertarian: It gets worse. Turns out Axe Body Spray doesn’t work either.

I’m so tickled that Jordan’s butthurt has now lasted like 3 days. Ye gods, Proactiv must have burned off all but the thinnest of his skin.

Is this (Proactive) a scam?  Next you’ll tell me that I can’t get girls by drinking Coors Light.

Shorter Libertarian: unlike Galtian supermen like myself, the average consumer is a rube who deserves to get scammed.

He must be a B-school grad. Fair is fair, though, at least the comment had more relevance than DudeBro’s at #1.

Libertarian, I am asking this sincerely when I question whether you actually read the contents of this blog post.

Hahahahaha. Oh, my. Good luck with that derail, d-bag. I already done fought that fight, ain’t wasting my time on it again.

“Proactiv ads are especially vicious in this department, with the exploitative lighting and the glowing skin of heavily-made-up celebrities.”

Whenever I see these ads (particularly the Katy Perry one, for some reason) it always occurs to me that not only do they use heavy make-up for the after photos, but they probably also use heavy make-up to exacerbate—if not outright fabricate—the godawful before pictures.

FlipYrWhig, you’re seriously out of date on acne treatments. There are any number of creams, scrubs, gels, lotions and potions out there - most are much cheaper than ProActiv and most work in the exact same way.  I haven’t seen a benzoyl peroxide gel in decades.

I know this person claimed to not be completely new to Pandagon, but he keeps saying these things (“but what about vaginas’ opinions?” “but ‘butthurt’ is homophobic!”) like he thinks they are new issues that haven’t been discussed here at tediously great length before.  So either he’s lying, or he’s fucking dumb(er than a stick, maybe?).

I’m pretty sure that the tiny magnets they put in Proactiv is what makes it work so well.

Well, the magnets align the molecules with your vibrations; otherwise they’d just be deflected by your aura.

“Hahahahaha. Oh, my. Good luck with that derail, d-bag. I already done fought that fight, ain’t wasting my time on it again.”

That’s the one where he pretends Encyclopedia Dramatica is a reputable source instead of a trollwiki, right?  ‘Cuz oh man, is that a boring and pointless derail.

It’s not just the cost that makes stuff like Proactiv more commitment-friendly, I’d wager. It’s also that it’s sold as a system, with directions and proper procedure and whatnot.

Just speaking for myself, skincare (and haircare, for that matter) often feels a lot like blind guesswork (“Can I use these two things together? Which one should go on first? Am I supposed to use this before bed or in the morning?” The information comes all scattershot from online, random magazines at the gym, stuff my mom says, etc. And there are so many variables, it’s hard to tell what’s working and what’s dumb luck. 

In the end I can’t use anything at all anymore, even soap, or my face blows up and falls off. But for a lot of my adolescence a clear set of products and regimented use might have come in handy.

“[..] but they probably also use heavy make-up to exacerbate—if not outright fabricate—the godawful before pictures.”

Most of it is probably the work of lighting and filters.  If you pick the least forgiving lighting available and a filter that will highlight any redness or uneven tones, you can make someone look rather a mess without trying too hard.

Having nearly had my freaking face burned off by benzoyl peroxide when I was a teenager, there is no way I’d let my kids get near anything containing it today, and frankly I was surprised they still make so much of the damn stuff.

Salicylic acid all the way, baby.

Well, what @42: it’s definitely complicated and the reason it’s complicated is because every company is hoping you’ll buy straight down the row of their own “system” to make sure you’re doing it right. Most of their business is flinging obscuring bullshit thick and fast. In reality, sticking with a very gentle facial cleaner, a thorough but not harsh exfoliation method, and one medicated leave-on product is probably fine for most people. A moisturizer if the medication leaves your skin feeling dry, but the ideal is that none of it gives you that sandblasted quality.

Exhibit B: The Clinique 3-step skincare. Unspecial soap, extremely irritating alcohol-based toner and moisturizer made of mineral oil, dye and thickeners. My roommate has terrible skin, but refuses to consider that the Clinique products might be contributing - after all, they wear lab coats at the Clinique counters, and that must mean that the whole thing is really sciencey. So her face is basically always inflamed and peeling.

I would argue that there is frequently a drastic difference between, say, higher-end makeup and drugstore stuff (not always, though), but I absolutely won’t buy high-end skincare. It’s an epic waste of money and ultimately, you can get the same results at a small fraction of the price by being an informed drugstore shopper.

Next you’ll tell me that I can’t get girls by drinking Coors Light.

WHAT!?  Does that also mean that the Swedish Bikini Team won’t drop in when I crack open an Old Milwalkee?  Fuck.  I’ve been had.

I just read this article earlier this morning and it reminded me that Proactiv is actually being used as a case study of a successful marketing campaign in MBA courses. It really is nothing but a marketing gimmick, so it’s pretty surprising to me that it took so long for someone to write about it. To me, the most egregious thing that Proactive does isn’t the use of celebrity endorsement or selling something that should be cheaper for a lot of money (after all, every company does that - see Apple), it’s the fact that they use people who look like they have moderate/severe acne in the ads and are claiming that their product will cure that. I’m sure Proactiv works well for mild breakouts, but the non-famous people in their ads look like they actually have a health issue that requires antibiotics. It has always really bugged me that Proactive is making false claims far above what the product can actually accomplish.

Last year I bought a facial system that cost me $300.00 !!! There were four products you use in the morning and four products you used at night. It was unsustainable—I was either too rushed or too tired to do it all. My situation is no longer acne, but rashes, discoloration and flaking skin. The system didn’t make much of a difference anyway. So now what am I using that is really successful?

A $7.00 tube of CVS Sunblock With Zinc Oxide spf 45, and pure glycerin soap, at $2.00. I wash twice with the soap and that’s all the exfoliation that I need. The sunblock is really thick, I no longer peel, and it seems to make my mineral powder stay on better. This coupled with the fact that I have to use a tanning bed for the psoriasis on my legs, seems to have improved all sorts of skin issues. Funny, I bought the sunblock to protect my face while in the tanning bed, and received other benefits.

This may sound like I’m suggesting sackcloth and ashes to many people, but I found that the best way to not get any more zits was to stop using soaps and shampoo.  I run a fine-toothed comb through my hair in the shower and brush my hair regularly to keep the scalp from getting crusty, but haven’t opened a bottle of shampoo since 2009.  And my hair is healthier than ever.  I really gave up on all hair and skin products, pretty much only exfoliate using shower brushes, and only use soap on my hands, pits, and butt.  The skin mostly cleans itself, we just have to clear away the debris.

Another skin-assisting thing that hasn’t been mentioned is sunlight.  I’m not talking heavy tanning, just enough to make some sweat and exposure to air.  Of course, that’s easier in Tucson than in many other places, but it’s effective.

I also had terrible acne when I was a teenager. What worked: going on the pill. I wish I had discovered this earlier but a) no doctor ever suggested it and b) my hardcore catholic mother would have freaked. Come to think of it most of the time I’ve been on the pill its been “for acne” since my insurance didn’t cover it otherwise I think.

Stuff that worked kind of: differin, doxycycline. Docycycline helped the most of the non-BC stuff, before I took it I had the really painful cystic acne. Afterwards, I would occasionally get the odd cyst but mostly I got the not so painful non-cystic acne. I couldn’t stay on it forever because it caused stomach problems, but while I was on it it was great.

Retin-A was the worst, it did absolutely nothing, and usually made my skin totally red and peeling. At that time it was the new big thing and once I got yelled at by a doctor because he though I couldn’t possibly be using it correctly. There was this whole ritual involved and tho its probable that I wasn’t doing it right if it can’t work without a long process of preparation whose to say the product is doing anything? It still shouldn’t be making my skin fall off in sheets like I’ve been burned with acid.

I never tried pro-activ but I also read labels religiously (I
m a scientist, I can usually decipher the long multisyllabic words) and it always amuses me how many products are the same thing in different packaging.

My commet is turning into a tldr but I really can’t recommend Paula Begoun’s book Don’t Go To The Cosmetics Counter Without Me enough, especially for acne sufferers. She has a whole section on acne, and she is very straightforward. Before I read her book I had no idea about all the stuff that I was putting on my face was really irritating it.

You know how fire has three elements—-fuel, heat, oxygen—-and different fires require different strategies to put it out?  (Like for oil fires, you want to take away oxygen, but for wood fires you want to take away heat and for wildfires, you take away fuel.) 

I think acne is the same.  For it to happen, you have three elements: oil/dirt, bacteria, and your immune system reacting.  Depending on the person’s skin, the approach you take differs.  Some people, like me, have pretty tough skin, and so for us the best strategy is to tackle the food supply, i.e. dry out the oil and scrub our skin.  I exfoliate like a motherfucker; works better than anything.  For some people, they have sensitive skin, and so doing that would exacerbate their body’s immune response and make the acne worse.  For them, not washing works better, or washing with a mild soap and using antibiotics.

Because one strategy works for one person doesn’t mean that it will work for everyone.  I’d be a walking zit if I quit scrubbing so hard.

That doesn’t mean Proactiv isn’t a rip-off.  It’s just one strategy that can be employed exactly the same using cheaper materials.  You don’t need Evian to put out a house fire.

A year or so ago, I heard about a different way to treat acne. The theory behind it is that your pillows and pillowcases soak up oils, so you put a fresh/clean towel on your pillow every night, and it soaks up the oils. New towel every night, so it doesn’t get saturated and clog you back up again. Must be a towel, apparently because they’re thick enough to keep face oil from getting on the pillow.

Fuck ProActiv and all the rest. I don’t know if the towel thing would work for everyone, but it costs nothing to try, apart from changing and washing the towels.

pajmahal @45, I often wonder if really high-end products are contributing to skin issues, as well. I know there are tons of factors in play that determine the health of your skin, but surely skin also reacts to products and makeup as well? I wonder how many people have adverse reactions to high-end stuff but keep on using it because it’s expensive and so, of course, has to be great and couldn’t possibly cause problems. I’m far from an eco-hippie, but just reading the ingredients list on some of this high-end stuff (and the drug store stuff as well) makes my skin crawl.

Clinique worked wonders for me.  But I had to use the"male” toner—supposedly the strongest stuff Evan that would burn off tender female skin. When I took a friend with horrible acne to the mall to get her what I had, the salesperson didn’t want to sell it to us.  She refused to believe I used it twice a day and told us it would dry out our skin.

In a less than tactful moment, I said “Look at her face!  You can’t dry it out enough!”

Sure enough, after a week of twice daily face washing and “toning” she looked great.  I think it had witch hazel in it as well as alcohol.

I though I had developed rosacea as an adult, but it turns out that moisturizing works even better than rosacea meds.  It was really bizarre to find my oil slicked skin could actually be dry.

I’m a little surprised that Amanda doesn’t mention how gendered this all is.

Not so much with acne—nobody likes guys with pimples either!—but certainly just about everything else involving skin care is totally put upon women and not men, who are given permission by society to have wrinkles and gray hair and look their age in a way that women never are. Go into a Sephora and you’ll find 20 products for female skin care and “anti-aging” for every one product they carry directed at men.

I haven’t seen a benzoyl peroxide gel in decades.

Really?  I have a tube right here on the desk.  Use it for spot treatments.  Works great.

I actually had a positive experience with accutane.  It worked when nothing else had.  Well, the pill worked, but for various reasons it wasn’t a good fit.  That Clinique crap gave me one of the worst outbreaks of my life.  But all the retinoid creams, the cleocin, the prescription washes, sandpapery exfoliating “sponges”, multiple antibiotics: zilch, nada, no change except to make me peeling and raw on top of impressively oily skin.  Have you ever been peeling with oily skin?  The dead skin flakes turn into sludge you can push around with your fingers into little piles.  It’s impressively gross.
 
Now, I wash with an olive-oil based soap, splash with witch hazel, and spot treat with the aforementioned benzoyl peroxide.  I know I lucked out in not having any serious side effects, and I wish it were that way for everyone.  I still have breakouts, but they’re nothing compared to what they were before.  Thank you, accutane.

Oh, and if the base creams of most sunscreens make you break out, check out Blue Lizard brand.  Expensive but totally worth it, IMO.

@27: @Libertarian: It gets worse. Turns out Axe Body Spray doesn’t work either.

I recently went througfh an article on what exact chemicals go into Lynx / Axe.

No.  Just… no.  Sweat instead.

In other news - another corporation found extracting profit by preying on anxieties of the vulnerable - film at eleven!!

I used Proactiv once and yes, it worked.

However, I’ve found the same ingredients at the 99 cent store, even cheaper than drug store products.

Also, if you have a tube on hand of drugstore antibiotic cream, a dab of that on a pimple tends to dry ‘em out overnight.

“The theory behind it is that your pillows and pillowcases soak up oils, so you put a fresh/clean towel on your pillow every night, and it soaks up the oils.”

It sounds like one of the “You should probably be doing this anyway if you have acne problems” things that don’t really cost anything and so don’t make it onto sponsored tip lists.  Another one is cleaning things like phones and eyeglasses regularly and washing your hands frequently to avoid adding to the bacterial load on your face.

@35: I just bought some store brand benzoyl peroxide gel at CVS for $3.99.  It is in my hand right now.  My son uses it on his forehead.

Amanda, I agree that it’s a rip-off, it just bugs me more that it’s a rip-off that makes exaggerated claims. If someone was just selling a product that was more expensive than what could be found elsewhere, but still worked, that would be one thing. But the fact that they are claiming to cure the kind of acne that should be treated by a medical professional really takes the cake. Of course, the whole cosmetics industry is really based on gendered anxieties and on making promises that can’t possibly be fulfilled.

And while we’re sharing cheap tips - French green clay. You can probably get a pound of the stuff for $10. Naturally, the cosmetics industry has a fancy name (kaolin?) and slaps a $20 price on a few ounces worth of mask. Mix a bit with a water into a paste, stick on a zit overnight, wake up with dried out zit. You can also add a drop of tea tree oil to the mix for extra anti-bacterial action. I think people with really oily skin can use it as a face mask, not overnight, but just until it dries out. It will dry out the oil (but if you have any other skin type, will probably burn your face off).

Because one strategy works for one person doesn’t mean that it will work for everyone.  I’d be a walking zit if I quit scrubbing so hard.

Exactly.  It also means that if what you are doing seems to be making things worse, maybe you should try something else.  Furthermore, asking your kin how they manage these things can save you a lot of time ... my teen sons have skin that is a lot like mine. Advising them to NOT over clean it, despite marketing to adolescents to nuke themselves with a regimen of products, was a good bet.

This may sound like I’m suggesting sackcloth and ashes to many people, but I found that the best way to not get any more zits was to stop using soaps and shampoo.

And if that sounds too extreme, and you live in an area with soft water, a sort of intermediate first step is trying a very gentle handmade soap. A lot of people say “I can’t use soap” not knowing that 99% of what’s on the shelves is detergent and not soap, and the other 1% is made for economy and not quality with all the extra oils and glycerin harvested out of it for other purposes.

Good handmade soap is a delicate, well-balanced, utterly luxurious work of art (not Grandma’s bucket of lye-heavy glop) and using good handmade soap improved my skin roughly 1000%.

FYI - I don’t doubt that the scrubbers and the dryer-outers are doing the right thing for their skin.  The “leave it alone” crowd does, however, get short shrift in marketing and promotion because, well, you don’t buy anything if you aren’t using anything. 

The concept gets drowned out in the marketing frenzy, even though it does work for some people.

That said, my skin and hair are never more excellent than when I surf for a few hours, rinse off in clean water and let be.

My folks took me to a dermatologist and put me on Accutane in jr. high after the teasing I got for my complexion was making me suicidal.  (Jr. High is such a lovely environment.)  It worked, but it was one of the most miserable time periods of my life.  You can’t go out in the sun:  we lived in Boise, ID where it rains less than 4 inches a year.  I could not drink enough water to stay hydrated on it.  I developed split ends in my hair for the first time, and we will not talk about bowel movements.  It sucked.

But it worked, and I have ever been grateful for it.  Granted, my dermatologist was a sadistic jerk who left my face bruised and puffy after every visit (anyone else remember the “melon-baller” things dermatologists use?)  But it cleared up my skin, and it only took about ten years for the scars to fade to the point where people congratulate me on having beautiful skin.  Which always makes me laugh bitterly.

Yeah, the blood tests sucked, and because of them I do actually have track marks on my right arm.  Still.  But I wouldn’t take it back.

Elena:  I love French Green Clay.  I break out a little every month right before my period, but Burt’s Bees Tomato Face soap and using the green clay mask helps tons.

I once read that there is never anything truly new or different in cosmetics.  This is because the cost of getting a new chemical compound approved by the FDA for cosmetic use is prohibitively high.  So all “new” cosmetics are just new packaging and/or delivery systems of the same old same old (eg instead of mixing the chemical in a cream, now they mix them in a gel).  Also, when they brag that they don’t test on animals, it’s because they’re using vetted ingredients and the testing was done by other companies 40 years ago.

The active ingredients are almost always identical between products.  Just pick the one you think smells best.

What did work was going on the pill

I was going to say exactly that.  When I went to the doctor at 19 (apparently my spots arrived late), this was the first thing he suggested pretty much. Maybe it’s a UK thing - no particular shyness about it here - of maybe it was because I was already sexually active.

Although that wouldn’t work for men presumably. Or would some other form of hormone treatment work for them? Has anyone ever thought to find out?

I’m a big fan of mixing a couple of crushed aspirin with a glob of plain aloe vera gel when my skin is acting up, smearing it all over and leaving it on overnight. Works like a champ.

Yeah, the blood tests sucked, and because of them I do actually have track marks on my right arm.  Still.  But I wouldn’t take it back.

For anyone considering Accutane who’s freaked out by this:  they now do finger pricks, not full-blown blood draws.

Count me in as one person who doesn’t regret doing Accutane even though it’s probably responsible for my persistent dry eye.  I went through so many different products for 15 years, trying to find something, anything that would work.  The closest was the Perricone prescription, but, while it took care of the smaller blackheads and pimples, my horrible, huge, painful zits would not clear up.

Accutane was kinda awesome for me too! First of all, the side effects basically turn you into a vampire, which means I got medical exemptions to wear hats and shades all the time. I don’t like sunlight anyway, so the fact that all your skin flakes off in daylight never really bothered me. The bi-weekly blood tests were the only pain, as nobody can find my veins on the first try and ALWAYS needed two tries—left me in a daze after every test.

I can’t donate blood anyway—the blood bank basically 86’d me for being a big wuss (I passed out), and don’t plan on having kids, so the long-term effects don’t actually exist for me.

Proactiv is the exact same regime endorsed by acne.org, except acne.org is honest and lets you know that there are tons of cheaper options you can buy from the store at a fraction of the cost that have the same 2.5% benzoyl peroxide (he does also sell his own ingredients, but the site doesn’t make any bones about suggesting drug store alternatives and admits that although the cleanser/benzoyl peroxide/moisturizer has an extremely high success rate, it doesn’t work for everyone). Proactiv probably has a higher success rate than some other products (just as using Oxy benzoyl peroxide and normal cleanser/moisturizer did for me over clearasil pads), but it’s because it tells you to do the correct things and has the BP in it, not because of some speshul sekrit formula that makes it better as a brand.

I’m not sure how this is some big reveal or anything, I’ve known it for 5+ years. I just see Proactiv as being like Chanel or Lancome cosmetics. They have the same-ish ingredients and do the same thing as cheaper drug store makeup, the only real differences are the price and brand status.

Many skin problems are a sign of zinc and/or essential fatty acid deficiency. I had moderate facial acne from my tweens to my mid-20s. I tightened up my diet and would only get occasional breakouts. Then I got together with the man who is currently my husband and we began an intense bodybuilding regimen together. I developed hideous back acne to the point that it made me extremely self-conscious and depressed. Of course, my moderate facial acne also returned.

I can’t remember how I got turned on to it, but I found a regimen of extremely high doses of zinc (OptiZinc powder mixed with juice) that I took several times a day. My acne completely cleared up within a couple of weeks. I then added 50 mg zinc to my multivitamin regimen. Since I suck at taking pills consistently (good thing I don’t rely on the pill for my contraception), whenever I do stop taking zinc, I get a breakout, which goes away when I get back on it. I take some form of EFA supplementation daily and have for a long time, typically in the form of green smoothies with either/both flax or hemp seeds, homemade salad dressings using flax or walnut oil, fatty fish, or an EFA capsule, etc.

Of course, YMMV.

That’s a bummer, because I was always under the impression that Proactiv was the one and only infomercial product that actually worked.  I have several friends who’ve used it and been “cured” of their acne and spoke very highly of the product… but, yeah.  It makes sense now why it actually worked so well.

#78: sometimes. I have a couple of $1 eyeshadows that perform just as well as my MAC. And I use a $6 eyeliner that is completely and totally the equivalent of a $24 liner from Urban Decay.

I do agree with the last paragraph of the OP though, as someone who is absolutely neurotic about their skin. I wish more helpful and unbiased parties advised people about appearance-based anxieties and how to deal with them, rather than the ads of a bunch of companies with agendas being the only thing that people routinely see.

And to add to the conversation about other methods… I tried zinc along with some other supplements, and it very often had bad effects on me (red itchy flushing, stomach ache). I didn’t eat an awful lot though, so that might have caused it (if you read the labels they always tell you to take the pills at mealtimes, and if you eat inadequately like I did in the period I was trying the vitamins, you’ll see why). I’d love to try accutane but it’s very difficult to get on if you also have depression, due to its side effects.

@78-79 yeah it depends. The only brand of makeup I’ve ever tried that notably sucked was Collection 2000. And if the drug store brand is something like Max Factor or Rimmel the difference really is negligible between that and Chanel. The new light foundation from MF is better than the Benefit foundations I used before it that cost 3 times as much (mainly because Benefit’s light shades are nowhere near light enough for me), for instance.

I do love Urban Decay when I can afford it, but it’s mainly a matter of it having more interesting colour choices and being vegan than whether it stays on or blends better or whatever (makes very little comparable difference in my experience).

Treefinger—I did zinc as well, but I bought topical ointments. After years of useless Tricyline from a dermatologist who did nothing else, I noticed that none of the women in my mom’s home town of Trail BC (where there is a zinc smelter) had acne. So I started smearing myself with zinc lotion.

It helped quite a bit, although it didn’t cure it. The pill did the best job—that and age.

And I thought Proactiv was expensive yogurt! Excuse me, I need to use the restroom.

I do think the premium paid for Proactiv is immoral considering how the same basic products are available in generic forms for a much cheaper price, but overall the idea of marked up brand name products has a lot of precedent and isn’t exactly uncommon. All sorts of “premium” products ranging from makeup to shoes to frozen pizzas are fundamentally the same thing as their generic counterparts. Unfortunately we have a society that is obsessed with the idea of “caveat emptor”, and we deal with a lot of scammy products as a consequence.

What really bugs me about Proactiv, however, is that the normal people featured in their ads alongside the celebrities tend to have fairly severe cases of acne, possibly even cystic acne. The fact of the matter is that benzoyl peroxide is fairly effective on mild and moderate acne, but it’s just not as good for severe or cystic acne. It might help some, but very, very few with bad acne will see the type of results tauted in the commercials. So they’re not just inflating the price, they’re also selling false hope to the people who suffer most from their acne. This is made worse by how it seems designed to appeal to people who may not have the best insurance (or any insurance at all) and who face spending hundreds or even thousands to get an effective treatment from a dermatologist. I’ve been in those shoes, and the idea of a miracle cure that may be overpriced but is still a fraction of the cost of professional treatment is seriously tempting. They’re preying not just on appearance insecurities, but also the medical and financial insecurities so common in our country these days.

Side note, if you do want to use benzoyl peroxide and have moderately bad acne I would recommend the stuff they sell at acne.org. It’s 2.5% and comes in huge portions at a reasonable price, plus it soaks into your skin better than that white drug store stuff. I’d love to go to a dermatologist, but since I can’t right now, that’s the best option I’ve found to deal with my perpetual case of moderately bad acne.

I had heard before that Proactiv was just benzoyl peroxide.  I always figured the only reason it worked for so many people is that they have you put it all over your face ever day—or twice a day, or whatever.  Whereas with the drugstore products, people tend just to dab them on pre-existing pimples.  I’ve been using Oxy-10 for years now to cope with acne, but it does tend to leave your skin dry and flaky, and can bleach your towels, pillows and clothes—it doesn’t exactly scream “use me as a skin cream.”

I’d like to chime in and say that Retin-a worked well for me.  I had to deal with redness and irritation at first, but I don’t have pimples regularly anymore, and I did before (even with the benzoyl peroxide).

@ borgen #84 - i second that last paragraph. my partner has always had pretty bad body/face acne, but between his anti-biotics and his rigid adherence to the acne.org regimen, his skin is better than mine (and i’m on the pill, have chronically dry skin and teeny tiny pores. although i am prone to stress breakouts like crazy due to my ridiculously pale, sensitive complexion). one thing about that though: watch out for the bleaching factor. my partner and i had to abandon our designy, interesting bed linens and towels for plain white everything, and even the wooden headboard of our bed is lightened a bit behind his pillow, from the residue of the benzoyl peroxide gel he puts on every night before bed.

as for mass market vs. boutique skin care, go for mass market. the amount of consumers vetting the products and giving feedback is just so overwhelming compared to fancy boutique specialty products. i do a lot of work with skincare products, and the amount of attention to keeping the margin of error between claims vs. reality microscopic is insane.

cosmetics, on the other hand, are all over the place. quality materials do make a lot of difference, and if you have any weirdness at all you’re probably not going to find much help at walgreens. for me, my skin tone is what dictates what brand i buy, because my skin is just a weird color (or you know, lack thereof). the good thing about more expensive cosmetics is that you can try them in the store (generally with the advice of a professional), and not have to buy bottle after bottle after compact of makeup that makes you look jaundiced, dirty or undead. on the other hand, i’m still using the same covergirl eyeliner i have since my little junior high goth kid days.

@86: Can you not try makeup on in drugstores in the US? We normally have “tester” bottles in front of the product display that you can try (as opposed to big department stores that have the employees swooping down to help you and apply some for you if you show interests in their counter… or even if you’re just idling past, sometimes D:). Then again as there’s usually only one tester most people try them on their hands to avoid putting something anyone could have touched on their face, which isn’t as reliable an indicator of it being effective as a proper facial application.

@82: I see, topical ointment could indeed be better. Hopefully your experience with the pill will ring true for me too when I go on it in a few weeks time.

Treefinger: I haven’t seen testers in drugstores for a long time, but I’ve never *not* been able to return makeup or skin care products that didn’t work for me. If I’m buying it at a store where I’m not a regular, I make a point of asking “If this burns my skin/is the wrong color/doesn’t work/smells bad can I return it?” and they always tell me yes. I’ve returned everything from sunscreen to lipstick and nail polish. So shopping for the correct foundation color or whatever at the drugstore isn’t a big deal for me.

Treefinger, I think there are testers in some Target stores here, but not at drugstores? But we also do have the department store vultures. I remember when Sephora stores first opened up here, their bid draw was that they weren’t going to bug you and try to apply things unless you asked for help. But last time I ran in to pick up a refill on something, I ended up having to fend off the salesperson who kept trying to push things on me.

I’m a leave-it-alone person and pretty much require two things in my skincare: 1) not tested on animals (I know that most of these ingredients have already been tested in the past, nothing I can do about that) and 2) a short and relatively chemical-free ingredients list. So I do go to Whole Foods and get stuff there - they have a good range of prices (although nothing drugstore cheap), lots of “natural” brands, and testers for everything. I know recommending Whole Foods is so urban hipster, but there you have it.

I don’t know why hormonal solutions aren’t looked at more.  Technically, they come with high side effects, but I think that’s overblown for danger when compared with some of the new stuff they put people on.

For me, I found that formulation of the cream mattered in a big way:  Anything with aloe makes any injury on my skin refuse to heal.  Acne creams or cleansers without like witch hazel wouldn’t actually work on me.  And most creams would just act like dirt and make the pimples worse.

Makes me wonder how many people use pimple creams and the current crop get worse, not better.

When I was 30 years old I started getting lots of pimples on my face, particularly on my nose, forehead and chin, but often all over. I used lots of over the counter drugs such as benzoyl Peroxide and Salicylic Acid. But my face kept getting worse. I went to a dermatologist in desperation and was told I had Adult acne. He gave me more products typically used for acne, but still my face got worse. It wasn’t until a year later, a move, and a different dermatologist told me I had Rosacea, not acne. I asked what could have taken so long, and this being 1996, most doctors only thought women got Rosacea and being male they figured it had to be acne.

Anyhow, all those over the counter products tend to make Rosacea worse, as the cause of the pimples and redness is very different than the cause of acne. I would imagine lots of adults in particular probably self medicate using pro-active or benzoyl peroxide not realizing they have Rosacea and need a different treatment.

Funny, the derm first put me on metrogel for Rosacea and doxycycline. Neither really worked. I finally started looking at online guides, books, and scouring over the counter products and I finally found that Preparation H cooling gel actually helps. It says it’s a vasoconstrictor which is just the thing to help inflamed blood vessels. (if I use it too much, though, it tends to start irritating the skin in other ways). But it helps when I have a breakout, who knew?

I also found something called Prorosacea in CVS that seems to do pretty well. It’s made from sulfur.

Acne is like fire in that there is the dirt/oil, bacteria, and immune response.  The goo in them is mostly white blood cells, the swelling and redness is from immune response, etc.  Any hard stuff is from oil, black stuff is dirt, any thick stuff is dead skin cells and green stuff or yellow (not clear, as that’s just your interstitial fluid) is remnants of bacteria.

But the thing is, the bacteria and oil and skin cells come from your body.  So no amount of ‘clean’ will stop it on its own.  In fact, it can make it worse!  No amount of merely killing bacteria will do it if pores get blocked by dirt.  And immune suppression well… Can be bad.

And everyone’s skin really is different.  It’s like how we don’t really have a cure for psoriasis:  Everyone’s skin needs a slightly different set of solutions, because the balance is set by your genetics responding to your environment as a child and how it’s responding today.

So one person needs more acids - alike salicylic - to keep dead cells from clumping together.  Another needs to eat less oils so their skin has less.  Another might not have the right kind of oil.  Another’s skin might be dry and need oil from the outside, or water, or sunlight.  Another might have a lowered immune system or have trouble with a particular bacteria and need that.

But what dermatologist can afford to test these bajillion things for something that won’t kill you?

How could you confuse rosacea with pimples? O-o Of course, the solution for one is completely the opposite for the other (although sulfur compounds can be used to reduce bacteria).

Did you at least make sure the doctor that got the two confused was reprimanded?  ‘Cause that’s… A serious dereliction of his duty as a specialist.

I went to an old-school dermatologist in the 1980s (only woman in her medical school class) and she applied a mixture of sulfur and salicylic acid powder she’d ground in a mortar and pestle; she patted it on my face, back, and chest using a washcloth wrapped around a lump of dry ice. It popped and steamed and crackled when she dipped it in the powder, and then I sat under a sunlamp til a kitchen timer dinged. She told me to stop using soap on my face, and to occasionally rinse my face off with an Epsom salt solution (bathwater with mineral salts). I later read somewhere to apply milk of magnesia (same ingredient as Epsom salts) to occasional blemishes, and find that it works great. Dries them out and is very soothing. Neosporin helps too.  I don’t have terrible skin, but I developed painful cystic acne that lasted almost a year after I stopped taking the pill. My skin was fantastic while I was on the pill, incidentally.

“How could you confuse rosacea with pimples? O-o Of course, the solution for one is completely the opposite for the other (although sulfur compounds can be used to reduce bacteria). “

At the time, 1995, I had never heard of Rosacea. All I knew what I was getting lots of pimples. Some where white heads, some more like boils, some that bled. Looked like acne to me, and apparently to my first dermatologist. I wasn’t getting the typical red face that I now know is a feature of Rosacea and over time, when my skin kept getting worse, the red face came and went, along with the pimples.

When I went to the next dermatologist in 1996 and he told me it was Rosacea, I still had never heard of it. After much research, I sure do now!

Oooh, milk of magnesia. Apparently magnesium will absorb a shit ton of extra oil, and when I was very oily with lots of blocked pores it was a wonder for me. And yeah, you’d think absorbing tons of oil would mean it would be very drying, but it never was at all. Cheap too.

Ms Kate earlier mentioned how not shampooing as often might help.  Hells yeah.  I used to shampoo every damn day, and when it was the ‘80s and New Jersey, I had ginormous mulletized hair.  In retrospect, I think my over-shampooed hair was leaving residues on my forehead and face.  Never occurred to me until decades later.  Less shampoo, more conditioner, better baseline level of skin.

As a teen in the 70’s I took tetracyclene and put “vitamin A acid” gel on my face. It did burn all my skin off and left me red and shiny for weeks, but I didnt have acne problems after that.
It is also a class issue these days as some have more access to drugs and matierals to fix bad acne. Bad acne, like bad teeth can keep one unemployed and socially isolated.
Since I became a chemist I have seen how much of the cosmetics are complete nonsense in claims and ingredients.
One resource for those that arent chemists has been metioned above is “Don’t Go To The Cosmetic Counter Without Me” to help pinppoint things like fancy names for common ingredients and magical and nonsensical claims vs. the real science.
At my current ripe age I wash with hot water and use a sunscreen daily. Thats it. No makeup at all. But I am a hairy legged feminist hippie too.

I never had acne until I was 18, when suddenly my hormones went absolutely nuts literally overnight.  Finally, when I got on the pill ... all the acne went away.  It came back when a doctor put me on a progestin-only pill because she thought it was better for me while I had other medical issues, but I got off that finally and the acne disappeared again.

I later had acne creep up again as the result of makeup I was using.  It took me a while to realize it was the makeup, though.  I was getting swollen, painful acne all around my chin, and it was an endless cycle of using more makeup to cover the acne, when the makeup was causing it in the first place.  I was in Japan and used a tester kit from the Dr. Ci:Labo line.  I only used a few of the products in the kit, but they really did keep the zits in check.  Since their products can be pricey ... I just kept buying the tester kit ($15) over and over.  I don’t think the kit’s available in the US, though.  You can buy the Basic Black series individually on Amazon, but it probably ends up costing more than Proactiv if you buy a couple of products.  They worked, yes.  But ... $$$$

It looks like this thread is winding down, but I just have to pop in to say: sometimes putting a teenager on the pill to treat acne is a bad idea.  My doctor tried it, and I got bad side effects, but since I was a) inexperienced with taking medications, and b) suffering temporary (age-induced) idiocy, I wouldn’t have gone back in and complained if my mom hadn’t been keeping an eye on the situation.

Turns out, my acne *is* the type that responds best to hormonal treatments—but we’re not willing to try messing with my hormones anymore, because I, and every woman in my bloodline I’ve asked, responds badly to it.  So I use a spot-treatment as breakouts occur and keep a roster of cleansers, moisturizers, and exfoliants in the bathroom, which I pick between on the basis of how my skin looks in the morning.  It’s not a perfect system, but it keeps me within acceptable boundaries.

If a girl has bad skin, I don’t discriminate, I just turn her over and buttfuck her.

Elena @90

Haha, I thought I was the only one who called them vultures :D I know they’re just people trying to do their jobs, but as someone who’s a little anxious in social situations, it does startle me a bit when someone pops up to try and help when I’m doing okay browsing on my own.

Modern American bigcorps and the MBA mentality in a nutshell: focus everything on marketing, and nothing on actually improving the product. I mean, why put money into R&D;or innovation when you can scam the consumer into paying more for the same old product (or, better yet, for outright woo)?
Comment #26: Gracchus on 02/28 at 12:18 PM

Because the company selling the stuff to you isn’t the same company developing the stuff.

For what it’s worth, while Clinique’s regular moisturizer turned my skin into a pustulent oil field, I got a sample of the gel version and it turned out to be my moisturizer nirvana. Weirdly, it doesn’t seem to be available from their department store counters, but Sephora carries it. I won’t touch the rest of their stuff with a ten-foot pole, though.

Also, the fact I’m being served ads for three different skincare regimens (Proactiv, the Kardashian rip-off of Proactiv, and something called “Max Clarity”) is kind of hilarious to me.

bio oil is really good.

Cheapest glycolic cream = Walgreen’s Alpha Hydroxy face cream $4.89 for 4 oz
http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Lotions-and-Creams/Alpha-Hydroxy-Face-Cream/ID=prod5822041-product?V=G&ec=frgl_&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku5820908

Amanda FTP

As a perennially cheap person, I figured out the trick to flip stuff over and check the ingredient list a long time ago, much to the dismay of anyone trying to sell any of the various products that cost four or five times as much for exactly the same stuff.

My mom used to work for the legal department of a pharmaceutical distribution company, which meant a lot of cosmetics and over-the-counter drugs. When the patent on the original product formula expires, which doesn’t take long, it can be sold generically. So when you buy the Walgreen’s brand in the similar container for $5 less than the name brand, you really are getting the exact same thing and just saving on the advertising and package design.

Everyone knows that celebrities wear makeup, of course, but it’s remarkable how easy it is to just forget HOW much it is - and how much that’s enhanced by lighting, editing, etc.

Comment #4: Loch Ness Monster

I extrad in a movie once way back when and got a real life look at the actors. I swear it was slathered on about a quarter-inch thick. Caked up in the creases and everything. It looked fine on camera though.

Far as acne, before I aged out of it, when I felt a breakout coming on, the phytoestrogens in a glass of soymilk could head it off.

Worth a clean up on aisle 102?

Too-hot showers contribute to bad skin too in my experience, not to mention dandruff. My ex’s shoulders and upper back used to be awful because that’s where scalding hot water would be hitting for twenty minutes every morning.