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Next entry: It really isn’t that confusing Previous entry: Define “freedom”

Professional fundies squeal over Prop 8—and the end of the world

In the NYT, the Beltway Dominionists are soiling their diapers at the prospect of the defeat of Prop 8. This is their last stand, and are declaring that religious persecution is around the corner unless it passes. In fact, owner of the KKK’s mailing list, and Family Research Council honcho Tony Perkins declares that this battle over marriage equality is more meaningful than the presidential election.

Conservative religious leaders from across the country are pouring time, talent and millions of dollars into the state in support of Proposition 8, which would ban same-sex marriage. They are hoping to reverse a California Supreme Court ruling in May that gave same-sex couples permission to marry, resulting in thousands of exultant same-sex weddings.

Similar marriage amendments are on the ballot next month in Arizona and Florida. But religious conservatives have cast the campaign in California as the decisive last stand, warning in stunningly apocalyptic terms of dire consequences to the entire nation if Proposition 8 does not pass.

California, they say, sets cultural trends for the rest of the country and even the world. If same-sex marriage is allowed to become entrenched there, they warn, there will be no going back.

OMG - does it mean the end of the world is around the corner? If so, why hasn’t Massachusetts caused the End Times? Oh silly, why should facts get in the way of The Rapture. Hyperbole alert…

This vote on whether we stop the gay-marriage juggernaut in California is Armageddon,” said Charles W. Colson, the founder of Prison Fellowship Ministries and an eminent evangelical voice, speaking to pastors in a video promoting Proposition 8. “We lose this, we are going to lose in a lot of other ways, including freedom of religion.”

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian lobby based in Washington, said in an interview, “It’s more important than the presidential election.”

“We’ve picked bad presidents before, and we’ve survived as a nation,” said Mr. Perkins, who has made two trips to California in the last six weeks. “But we will not survive if we lose the institution of marriage.”

Doesn’t it leave you breathless?! Tony also takes the opportunity to knife John McCain in the back for not stepping up to the plate enough to help the fundies—even though he selected Sarah Palin to carry the torch of intolerance for them.

“He’s not helping, and he’s not being helped by the support for the marriage amendment,” Mr. Perkins said, in contrast to the campaigns of President Bush.

Fellow fundie Janet Porter takes an even more dire view of your soul. See below the fold.
Janet Porter’s end of the road: ‘vote for Obama, go to hell’

The fundie-formerly-known-as-Janet Folger doesn’t have any more tools in the toolbox to scare voters away from Barack Obama. Apparently she has a hotline to God, who has sent down word that you will be one of Satan’s children if you don’t vote for McCain. From her WingNutDaily column, “You cannot be a Christian and vote for Obama”:

To all those who name the name of Christ who plan to willfully disobey Him by voting for Obama, take warning. Not only is our nation in grave danger, according to the Word of God, so are you ... [T]his election is not about race. It’s not about the economy. It’s about obeying God.

...

Be forewarned: If you willfully disobey God on life and marriage because of race or false hope for the economy, you will usher in the kind of change that brought the Soviet Union to collapse.

But the warning goes far beyond that. To those who think that God’s grace gives them license to willfully disobey Him without consequences – think again:

Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?” And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” (Matthew 7:21-23)

That deals with your eternity.

Obama supporters, you’ve earned a free ride on the Hell Express. Janet also has this warning (gee, what is that about judging others—is that section missing from the Bible (Porter edition)?

To those who call themselves by the name of Christ who ignore what God says about life and marriage, who and are clinging to a fantasy of economic gain, think again ... Then obey Him in the voting booth and out of it. If not, do us all a favor and quit calling yourself a Christian.

Hat tip, Right Wing Watch.

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Posted by Pam Spaulding on 12:39 PM • (54) Comments

Let’s see….. Colson is a convicted felon, one of Tricky Dick’s bad boys. Perkins bought his mailing lists from the Ku Klux Klan.

Yep. Those two are exactly who I’d turn to if I had a spiritual question.

Comment #1: JollyRoger  on  10/28  at  12:44 PM

Chuck Colson?  CHUCK COLSON? 

Well, there’s a voice with integrity.

Comment #2: JupiterPluvius  on  10/28  at  12:45 PM

lololol

These fundnuts know gay marriage has been legal in numerous countries for a while now, and that Armageddon has not occurred, right?

Comment #3: SarahMC  on  10/28  at  01:01 PM

“…you will usher in the kind of change that brought the Soviet Union to collapse.”


I thought defeating hte evul commies was the greatest godly feat of Saint Reagan to these people. ?!?

Comment #4: Kairuh KS  on  10/28  at  01:08 PM

“These fundnuts know gay marriage has been legal in numerous countries for a while now, and that Armageddon has not occurred, right?”

But those other countries aren’t America. That is the only country that God cares about. He thinks about Israel occasionally, but they turned their backs on him a long time ago (prior to even existing), so he can ignore them most of the time.

Who cares if godless heathens like Canadians support stuff like same-sex marriage. They’re already all going to hell. The only reason God lets them stick around is to send money to American televangelists once in awhile. Oh, and make stuff cheap for us to buy at Wal-Mart.

Comment #5: Lymis  on  10/28  at  01:12 PM

If not, do us all a favor and quit calling yourself a Christian.

You’re welcome.

Comment #6: Rick Massimo  on  10/28  at  01:14 PM

Gee, I thought the Soviet Union ruined their economy by spending too much on military. Which party has been doing that lately?

Also, IF God is love, then these people have a real serious hate on against God.

Comment #7: Samantha Vimes  on  10/28  at  01:14 PM

“Be forewarned: If you willfully disobey God on life and marriage because of race or false hope for the economy, you will usher in the kind of change that brought the Soviet Union to collapse.”

Wait, there was gay marriage in the Soviet Union? Really? How about in Cuba (must take place in prison)? And didn’t Jesus say something about giving to the poor, loving and helping your neighbor? Don’t recall anything on the ensoulment of blastocytes or gay marriage.

Comment #8: histrogeek  on  10/28  at  01:14 PM

you will usher in the kind of change that brought the Soviet Union to collapse.

Yeah, when I think “gay friendly” or “same-sex marriage,” the Soviet Union is what springs irresistibly to mind.

Comment #9: mds  on  10/28  at  01:16 PM

How long until Tony Perkins, James Dobson, and Ralph Reed start gathering up their followers, making them wear silly jump suits, and start passing out kool-aid?  That’s the inevitable result when fundies loss too much political clout, isn’t it?

Comment #10: Zifnab25  on  10/28  at  01:23 PM

This looks like a real concern: Proposition 8 may make Polygamy legal. You have to wonder about its strange wording.

Comment #11: Cain Hamm  on  10/28  at  01:24 PM

It’s much too close for comfort at this moment. 48% yes, 45% no.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=0d4fd538-5834-4c18-98c8-6e58da254976

Comment #12: Grammar RWA  on  10/28  at  01:29 PM

Wait, she used that scripture without actually trying to figure out it’s place in the Bible and the surrounding verses? really? I mean she takes this judgement of everyone from the very chapter that begins

“1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”


but of course believes that judging anyone on how they vote is simply her perogative. I mean, the verse that she quotes comes after long lists in Matthew 5, 6 and 7 about how to be humble and non-hypocritical, and how it’s more important to be a good person than to appear to be a good person. I mean for fucksakes, it’s the ending of the penultimate parable in the sermon on the mount… the one that begins with the beatitudes, and walk another mile, and… well if anyone should stop calling themselves Christian, I think it’s the lady who refuses to comprehend the easiest of the sermons given by the man she calls god.

shorter me: I really wish that fundies realized that the Bible was more than the readers digest condensed version that they are spoonfed.

Comment #13: kodiak  on  10/28  at  01:54 PM

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian lobby based in Washington, said in an interview, “It’s more important than the presidential election.”

Only because they already know they have lost that one. Heh.

Comment #14: Mustella  on  10/28  at  02:08 PM

Imagine all the home-schooled kids, deprived of a normal childhood as they
are brainwashed daily with bible lessons, saying:

“Mommy, when I grow up, can I be a hate-filled,
money-making fundie?”

Comment #15: Mr Fat --Johhny The Pie  on  10/28  at  02:13 PM

But they’re right.

Judging from our experience in Canada, a year or two after you legalize gay marriage, no one can remember what the fuck the argument was all about.

Of course, I don’t consider that any kind of a tragedy either. But you do feel kind of silly not having legalized it years ago. Sort of like having someone point out your fly is open after having walked around all day that way.

Comment #16: sunsin  on  10/28  at  02:25 PM

<u>You have to wonder about its strange wording.</u>

If that interpretation made it past the CA Supreme Court, cool. 

We could market CA as a destination to polygamous/polyandrous folks around the world.

The ads write themselves:

“We loved LA!”

“We left our hearts in San Francisco.”

“Open up YOUR Golden Gate.”

“Is there another reason a BEAR is on the California flag?  You betcha!”

California, they say, sets cultural trends for the rest of the country and even the world. If same-sex marriage is allowed to become entrenched there, they warn, there will be no going back.

Yay!

Comment #18: Molly, NYC  on  10/28  at  02:41 PM

Kodiak,

If you ask, they will say “it’s not ME judging you, it’s GOD doing it. I’m just telling you about it.”

Speaking on behalf of God is humble, no?

Comment #19: Dolbia  on  10/28  at  02:56 PM

Wait, is Folger saying that the US is just like the Soviet Union, and that electing Obama would cause it to collapse?  Didn’t the Religious Right want the USSR to collapse?

Its still not enough to sway me from McKinney/Clemente, but there’s a swing state message if I ever saw one.

Comment #20: pro-life atheist  on  10/28  at  03:04 PM

There’s always a delicious irony to zealots quoting Matthew 7:21.  They never seem to consider it might apply to them.

Comment #21: Ignignockt  on  10/28  at  03:11 PM

When will these idiots learn the difference between LOSING something and SHARING something?

Marriage isn’t being banned, it is just being universally extended in all its privileged glory.  This isn’t about losing ... you don’t lose your mother and father when a new baby is born to your family ... this is about not wanting to share.  They just want to feel like God says they are special.  They just want special rights for heterosexuals!

Comment #22: Ms Kate  on  10/28  at  03:13 PM

My Jesus can beat up Janet’s Jesus.  So there!

Comment #23: Ms Kate  on  10/28  at  03:15 PM

“When will these idiots learn the difference between LOSING something and SHARING something?”

...but when gay-people share marriage, they get gay cooties all over it and the not-gay people don’t like it…

wah!...

Comment #24: MikeEss  on  10/28  at  03:18 PM

Yeah, so the fundies can come up with some sort of super-special covenant marriage and hold it in their no-fags-allowed churches. And be just as special as they want. Of course, when they don’t work out, the government will only hold them to the civil requirements for divorce like anyone else.

Comment #25: Lymis  on  10/28  at  03:31 PM

The intolerant Christian right have had their day - it’s time for them to be marginalized.  We’ve had enough of their buttheadededness to last a millenia.

Go to:  www.buttheadpolice.com

Vote for extreme buttheads like McCain and Palin, who mine this ignorant side of the electorate for personal gain, to get asses stamped on their heads.  Hilarious.  Check it out.  Spread the word!!

Comment #26: wakeupUSA  on  10/28  at  03:34 PM

Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?” And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” (Matthew 7:21-23)

Isn’t it amazing how the fundies think that Bible verses never apply to them, but only to other people?  Especially since it’s people like Porter who are claiming to speak for God, not us.

Also, aren’t fundies supposed to only use the KJV?  Because that last line is a little different:

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Comment #27: Mnemosyne  on  10/28  at  03:37 PM

Can I ask an honest question.  Isn’t banning gay marriage as this idiot wants to do harming the freedom of religion?  I can think of a bunch of religions that would freely marry loving gay couples if it were legal.  By allowing gay marriage, not just civil unions, but full on Gay Marriage, isn’t the government giving every religion equal footing to decide if they wish to perform gay marriage ceremonies.  Non religious gay couples could also go to town/city hall and get a civil marriage ceremony as well, so everyone, religious and non religious are covered.  By banning gay marriage the government is impinging on the rights of specific religions to marry gay couples in a way that is equal to other marriages.

I hate these bigots, I really do.

Comment #28: Voice in the Crowd  on  10/28  at  03:49 PM

By banning gay marriage the government is impinging on the rights of specific religions to marry gay couples in a way that is equal to other marriages.

Yes, that’s accurate. But the history of American religion is of attempts by one church to use state power to oppress another church. Congregationalists versus the Danbury Baptists.

Comment #29: Grammar RWA  on  10/28  at  04:10 PM

Aren’t all their calls to action this hyperbolically insane?

People like these make me glad glad glad to have donated to No On 8.

Comment #30: Xecky Gilchrist  on  10/28  at  04:10 PM

who and are clinging to a fantasy of economic gain

Prosperity Gospel, anyone?

Also—Gay marriage brought down the Soviets?  You don’t think Reagan and Goldwater…nah!

Comment #31: Sour Kraut  on  10/28  at  04:20 PM

California, they say, sets cultural trends for the rest of the country and even the world. If same-sex marriage is allowed to become entrenched there, they warn, there will be no going back.

I think that this argument is at the heart of why there is no National Healthcare system yet- or actual reform in getting lobbyists away from government or reform of a million other things.

“We’ve always done it this way! It must be working OK! I declare it to be working OK!”

Comment #32: Danica Lefse Queen  on  10/28  at  04:28 PM

Imagine all the home-schooled kids, deprived of a normal childhood as they
are brainwashed daily with bible lessons, saying:

“Mommy, when I grow up, can I be a hate-filled,
money-making fundie?”

Mr Fat—Johhny The Pie on 10/28 at 01:13 PM

Watch it, buddy - you’re dissin’ your own side there.  Homeschooling is no longer the exclusive purview of evangelical Chrsitians.  Many liberal, “academic elitist” atheist parents choose to homeschool for academic and philosophical reasons - unschooling, dumbed down public school curriculum, etc.

Logical flaw penalty - hasty generalization.  No posting until you read a chapter of COPI.

Comment #33: phylosopher  on  10/28  at  05:04 PM

To all those who name the name of Christ who plan to willfully disobey Him by voting for Obama, take warning.

It’s worth noting that nowhere in the Bible does Christ talk about voting for John McCain or Barack Obama.  Strangely enough, a Jewish subject of the Roman Empire doesn’t talk about voting much at all…

I wonder, though, if Pastor Perkins is familiar with Exodus 20:7?

Comment #34: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  10/28  at  05:04 PM

Voice in the Crowd:

I can think of a bunch of religions that would freely marry loving gay couples if it were legal.

<snark>If they want to marry homos, then they CAN’T be real religions (and anyway, nothing but [insert your particular brand of “Christianity”] is really religion, so there)!</snark>

Comment #35: Stephen  on  10/28  at  05:08 PM

Isn’t Porter’s blasphemy the kind of shit that got Lon Maybon fragged by his own army of gayhaters?  My dad says that the woman who took him out must have gotten both of her neurons firing together that day and that day only when she realized that NOBODY could tell her what God wanted - that was something for her own personal relationship with Jesus!

This looks to me to be the same sort of blasphemy - somebody telling you to vote a certain way because THEY know what God thinks is in direct opposition to some of the favorite sections of fundy teaching.  This is also saying that your vote counts more than accepting Jesus as your savior.

Comment #36: Ms Kate  on  10/28  at  05:20 PM

If God is ALL-KNOWING, how can he say “I never knew you”?
I don’t think an infinitely wise, all-knowing Deity can claim ignorance , can He?

Comment #37: Bill S  on  10/28  at  05:38 PM

Ridiculous.  Good Christians know that God gave us free will.  Voting for Obama does not affect your immortal soul.  Anyone who says otherwise is being an idiot.

Comment #38: K.  on  10/28  at  05:42 PM

...Wow, that’s got to be the worst ever Bible verse to cite to prove her point.

Comment #39: Rebecca  on  10/28  at  05:56 PM

I think she needs to read the part where God separates the people who go to heaven and hell based entirely on how they treated other people in life, then look at the way she treats gay people. She might be in for a post-mortem shock.  “This is about your eternity” indeed.

Comment #40: Lymis  on  10/28  at  06:01 PM

If God is ALL-KNOWING, how can he say “I never knew you”?
I don’t think an infinitely wise, all-knowing Deity can claim ignorance , can He?

No no.  This is the bible.  Ergo, they’re referring to god knowing you in the “biblical sense”.  /zing!

Seriously, though.  It’s more like saying “I was never your friend” when someone comes running up to be asked why they weren’t invited to your birthday party.  God, in this case, is claiming that while you professed to do all these things for him, he was never really the recipient of your works.  Though you called out his name in blessing, you were really just trying to glorify yourself in his shadow.  And when he needed you most, when he asked you to sacrifice for him, when he called out your name you ignored him and walked away.  And thus he “never knew you” as the amicable person you claimed to be.

Comment #41: Zifnab25  on  10/28  at  07:07 PM

Cats and Dogs will be marrying in the streets! It’ll be anarchy. ANARCHY!

Here’s what absolutely kills me about this mentality and mindset.

Now, I myself, am in my mid 40’s. Yeah, I’m old.

I’m NOT so old, however, as that I have completely forgotten what and how the raging hormones of a mid-adolescent to mid 20 year old is like.

If these people would calm down, chill out a bit and do something they obviously aren’t use to doing… THINK. They might remember that biological survival instinct behind the “urge to merge” is NOT going to let their “way of life” die out.

Or have they ALL not seen statistics on teen pregnancy lately? They only have to look as far as their Vice Presidential candidate.

Comment #42: Capt. Spastic  on  10/28  at  07:50 PM

“unschooling”

Oy. Yes, heaven forbid your precious one is asked to integrate with his future fellow citizens of any sort or condition in any meaningful, extended way. It might spoil his ultra-fantastic multi-faceted individuality, fetter his free young spirit. Or some warmed-over sub-Thoreauvian rot like that.

THe other reason “phylosopher” gives to homeschool—low standards—is negative, and would therefore evaporate if we actually built good public schools and made teaching a paying profession. That reason I can understand. But that’s an emergency response, a band-aid when you can’t afford private school (or can’t find a suitable one).

Nothing beats a good school, public or private, for education.

Comment #43: wapsie  on  10/28  at  08:29 PM

I just have to say that I wish you hadn’t used “squeal” in this headline. Given the fundies’ proclivity for personal perversion, it just brings up the wrong images.

Comment #44: paul  on  10/28  at  09:14 PM

“Given the fundies’ proclivity for personal perversion, it just brings up the wrong images. “

...must not think about Dueling Banjos sequence from Deliverance ‘cause I might remember more of the movie than I want to right now…

...uh, too late…

Comment #45: MikeEss  on  10/28  at  10:42 PM

“This vote on whether we stop the gay-marriage juggernaut in California is Armageddon,”

Um, isn’t Armageddon precisely what the religious right been waiting for? Shouldn’t they be telling their sheep to go ahead and vote for Prop. 8 in order to bring about the glorious end times so that they can be raptured up to their savior and sneer and feel superior to all us heathens left here on earth? Isn’t that the whole point of Armageddon?

Comment #46: Slackajawea  on  10/28  at  11:06 PM

“unschooling”

Oy. Yes, heaven forbid your precious one is asked to integrate with his future fellow citizens of any sort or condition in any meaningful, extended way. It might spoil his ultra-fantastic multi-faceted individuality, fetter his free young spirit. Or some warmed-over sub-Thoreauvian rot like that.

THe other reason “phylosopher” gives to homeschool—low standards—is negative, and would therefore evaporate if we actually built good public schools and made teaching a paying profession. That reason I can understand. But that’s an emergency response, a band-aid when you can’t afford private school (or can’t find a suitable one).

Nothing beats a good school, public or private, for education.

wapsie on 10/28 at 07:29 PM

Excuse me “wapsie,” but WTF is your problem?  I corrected a false sterotype about homeschoolers- and you got nasty - so, back at ya’
 
Your “is negative” example is one of those “in a perfect world” dream bubbles.  THat fantasy is sooo far from being acheived that any parent has a right to do what can’t or won’t be in the mass education realm for their child.

Private homeschooling can indeed beat mass education for a number of children, who use other avenues for social interaction -or, as you termed it integration - and become much more adept and social adults - compared to those brought up in the artificial cohort system. Let’s face it - are you still hanging out only with those who share your birth year?

Comment #47: phylosopher  on  10/28  at  11:56 PM

Thirty years ago, in November 1978, gays and lesbians won for the first time ever at the ballot box in a statewide referendum—beating the Briggs Initiative.

And we’re going to do it again next week.  The arc of history is long, but it curves towards justice.  And it does so inexorably.  The FRC will go the way of the White Citizens Council soon enough.

Comment #48: Hugo Schwyzer  on  10/29  at  01:00 AM

I wonder: all those GM opponents who say that GM will ruin THEIR marriages?  Well, since GM already exists in various locales, aren’t their marriages ALREADY destroyed?

Or does it have to happen in their LOCAL municipality or governance area before the marriage destruction sequence begins?  State? County? Water district?

Comment #49: Eric, Rejector of Memez  on  10/29  at  02:35 AM

“Or does it have to happen in their LOCAL municipality or governance area before the marriage destruction sequence begins?  State? County? Water district?”

Family?

Comment #50: Lymis  on  10/29  at  08:00 AM

Man, I yearn for the rapture—we won’t have to listen to all these ridiculous people any more . . .

Comment #51: rea  on  10/29  at  08:39 AM

“I thought defeating hte evul commies was the greatest godly feat of Saint Reagan to these people. ?!?”
You are mistaken. It was not the funding and equipping of Mujahideen in Afghanistan, or the supply of arms to the contras with Iranian money delivered via Israel that brought down the Evil Empire, it was his sunshiney Godrays. He said “Mr Gorbachev! Tear down that wall! [twinkle]” and Gorbachev was like: “WoW!!111 ur so holey.” and so he did it.

DON’T YOU SEE?
GOD’S PLAN NOT GOSPLAN!

Comment #52: me  on  10/29  at  09:08 AM

“Janet Porter’s end of the road: ‘vote for Obama, go to hell’”

That’s exactly the same response you get on this site when you say you are considering voting for Cynthia McKinney.

I have to say, if this measure passes in California of all places, I don’t see how the rest of us have any chance.

Comment #53: Jose  on  10/29  at  06:12 PM

Let’s face it - are you still hanging out only with those who share your birth year?

Okay, what?  Even when I was in grade school and high school I didn’t only hang out with people in my same grade. It’s not like they build an electric fence to keep you separated from the other grades.

Comment #54: Mnemosyne  on  10/29  at  10:51 PM
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