“Vial crap? “Hmmm must mean they prefer their crap bottled.  Or… perhpas they buy it in bulk?

“vial crap”

I think that’s what Colin Powell sold to the U.N. Security Council.

People who never read anything should not try to write.

Hmmm… language count:

‘Dyke’, ‘freaks’, gays-as-bigots, ‘parasites’, ‘extremist’, ‘queer’, ‘sick repulsive sodomites’, ‘sick bastards’, ‘sick agenda’, ‘stupid ignorant morons’, ‘HIV infested sodomites’.

To be fair to him, he admits he’s a bigot.

Ok, I’ll bite: what is “vial crap”? Something to do with in vitro?

Also, I get a definite “Why Do All These Homosexuals Keep Sucking My Cock?” vibe from this nutty letter. Perhaps something happened after he was “younger and in school” that “changed his ways.”

“When I was younger and in school…I never really took sides on this issue, let alone, strongly voiced my OPINION! Back then I could really care less.
As I’ve matured with age though, and especially having seen the vial crap your movement has dished out for the past couple of decades, I have stepped forward and changed my ways.”

...um, I’m pretty sure the word “matured” does not refer to the process of personal de-evolution this idiot has been experiencing.  At the rate he’s going (and it has to be a he writing this crap), he’ll be an amoeba in a few more years…

“Now, if that makes me a BIGOT, then FINE!! I wear that with a badge of honor!”

...now there’s something we can all agree with…

I wonder how he’s going to react next year when Prop 8 gets repealed.  Maybe he’ll just have to come out of the closet and accept himself.

vial crap = vile crap

As for the whining about a group of protesters disrupting religious services, he’s got it easy. In Montreal, anarcha-feminist group Les Sorcieres protested a particularly “vial” masculinist priest by showing up at religious service and painting slogans inside the church (like No Gods, No Masters), some of which were done with menstrual blood.

In comparison, I think the Prop 8 opponents were a bit tame.

Wow. What an asshole. Yesterday was a sad day here in CA. At least my married friends can stay married, even if some others can’t get married…YET.

vial crap = vile crap

Ah, “vile.” Thanks, BlackBloc. I should have read it out loud, but unlike “bushflying62” I no longer move my lips when I read.

Blackbloc, I’m local (well, Ottawa)—how have I not heard of these provocative witches?

The absolute funniest damn part of this whole thing is that the Supreme Court of our most LIBERAL STATE…upheld Prop 8 by a 6-1 vote….now THAT IS FUNNY!!

In the words of former U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, ““You know, you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it’s almost embarrassing to listen to you.”

No blackbloc, “vial crap” = “stool sample”.  Like, duh. Like, to check it for parasites and evidence of the gay agenda.

It just goes to show that having a spellchecker can’t make you seem intelligent if you don’t understand the words you are using.

I can only offer the same suggestion to the author of this missive that I would give to anyone expressing such “vial” ideas: “Put a cork in it.”

No blackbloc, “vial crap” = “stool sample”.  Like, duh. Like, to check it for parasites and evidence of the gay agenda.

I don’t know about stool samples, but I’m guessing this guy does a lot of thinking about “precious bodily fluids.”

the Supreme Court of our most LIBERAL STATE…

The coveted “most liberal state” title has now been claimed by IOWA.
Plz to reformat your talking points accordingly bigots.

As I’ve matured with age though…

*snicker*
I prefer to mature with youth but to each their own.

all you HIV infested sodomites…

I think this ignant asshat must have a very broad definition of “sodomy” if he’s including lesbians in that… not that one would expect jagoffs like this to know wtf they’re actually for or against or even talking about at any given time.

Did he really sign it bushflying62? THAT IS AWESOME!
It is nice to know that there are truly crazy people out there that are this delusional.

I mean who else can we count on to embarrass the hell out of the GOP come election time? Besides he paints them all pretty badly with this screed.

It didn’t take me long at all to find out what “vial crap” is. Courtesy of Wikimedia, here’s a picture. Pam, someone should e-mail it to your correspondent.

“When the closet door swung open and all you HIV infested sodomites walked through the door…you all left the door ajar and open…I think it is time you all went back into the closet and closed the door behind you. America was a far better place back then…we can have peace and tranquility yet again!!”

  I get a kick out of this bozo’s conception that “the closet” is some sort of extradimensional space where all the queers came from (and apparently can just saunter on back to).

  One day we all just popped out of that floaty door from the Twilight Zone and messed ‘merica the hell up and some blessed day we’ll all just pick up our rainbow accoutrements and piss off.

Why does he hate fabulousness so much?

How vial.

Blackbloc, I’m local (well, Ottawa)—how have I not heard of these provocative witches?

That stunt was over 5 years ago. I’m not even sure they’re still active. I mean, the group *I* was in back then is now something else. NEFAC, North-Eastern Federation of Anarcho-Communists, became UCL, Union des Communistes Libertaires (Union of Libertarian Communists).

Basically NEFAC was dissolved because the old federation of large city collectives was not flexible enough and was becoming unwieldy as the regions (small towns: Sherbrooke, Drummondville, etc) started having their own collectives and wanting to be part of the federation. The Quebec/Ontario wing wisely decided that the international federation was detrimental to the realities on the ground, which was the spread of our ideology into smaller urban centers which the federation could not afford to support because it was covering such a large geographical area (plus the complications due to national borders).

“You despicable parasites are just as bigoted as the ones you choose to accuse!”
...
“Now, if that makes me a BIGOT, then FINE!! I wear that with a badge of honor!”

Lawl.  What a twat.

I get a kick out of this bozo’s conception that “the closet” is some sort of extradimensional space where all the queers came from (and apparently can just saunter on back to).

Queerthulhu fhtagn!

No, seriously, we know idjits like bushflying don’t consider gays to be evil and inhuman, but I never made the connection - hommahsexshuls are the Old Ones!

It sure explains all the “take over the world” fears.

Whoa, the psychological projection is strong with this one.

If someones beliefs don’t jive with the way you think they should…the extremists within the <strike>queer</strike> religious right movement resort to all sorts of vial tactics to make a point.

You sick repulsive bastards even try to push your sick agenda even within public schools any chance you get.

The Constitution does NOT grant you special treatment.

Um, ArchangelChuck - it’s not cool to compare female genitalia to an idiot like this.  My twat protests.

Um ... not embarrassing at all, because these people don’t have sufficient social awareness to be embarrassed.

What do I win?

@Katherine:  I apologize to all of the twats out there which might have been offended by being compared with bushflying62.

I think this video was made for guys like that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tt-WIdmCVQ

Excuse me - they do consider gays to be evil and inhuman.

Shhhh….

They think they won.

“You despicable parasites are just as bigoted as the ones you choose to accuse!”

Okay, then, can gays get married?  Because those other bigots have the right to get married.

ArchangelChuck—way to miss the point.  Maybe go hang on the feminism 101 blog for a while.  You might learn something.

“I find it overwhelmingly pleasing to know that the Gay rights agenda, or movement as you’d probably prefer to call it, has such a distasteful hatred for the religious right.”

Distasteful hatred, huh?

@Ismone:  To retort with lesser or equal snideness, I would simply suggest you find your sense of humor, because it seems you’ve lost it.  Because you don’t know me in person, I’ll enlighten you about my stance on the issue of feminism.  As you might have guessed, perhaps from my name, I am not a female.  I would, however, label myself a feminist because I support the goals of the movement: social equality and justice for women.  It’s when we get into the territory of, “You can’t say that!” or “How dare you joke about that!” where I stop being a feminist.

Anyhow…  I’m going to make one more point about this silly little letter of bushflying62’s to further illustrate why he is wrong.

“I think it is time you all went back into the closet and closed the door behind you. America was a far better place back then…we can have peace and tranquility yet again!!”

Anyone who claims that everything would be “better off” if only this and that happens is wrong.  There is no discussion or debate to be had with such a person, they’re wrong, plain and simple.  Reality isn’t that straightforward, and if it were, few people would disagree about it.

bushflying62, however, takes his wrongness to the level of insanity in which he asserts things were actually “better off” when homosexuals were more openly disparaged by society and even harassed by the police, and would be better off if we returned to a more ignorant mindset in our society.  No, by modern standards (as opposed to bushflying62’s primitive and unenlightened understanding of the world), that is not “better.”  In our country, we value liberty and justice, and that applies for all, if that needs to be made perfectly clear for these nutjobs.

Shorter bushflying69: “There’s a black guy with a funny name in the White House, record numbers of former Republicans have deserted the party and more are leaving every day, California will legalize gay marriage next year, and it’ll be legal nationwide in five years or less. My brand of bigotry is as close to dead as it can get. I will now scream impotently before going back to masturbating angrily to my secret folder of Dubya-in-a-flightsuit candids.”

ArchangelChuck,

Instead of saying that people need to just get a sense of humor, maybe you should consider why your attempt at a joke is offensive.  Personally, I’ll assume that you’re genuinely feminist but are just unaware of why calling someone a “twat” is offensive.  The problem is not that you associated femaleness with the crazy guy who wrote this letter.  The problem is with the societal acceptance that “twat” is meant to be insulting.  It’s offensive to us when the implication is that women are so lowly that it’s considered offensive to be called one.  It’s not just about lacking humor and being ultra-sensitive about forbidden words.  It’s about considering the subtle implications of socially acceptable ideas, and realizing that it’s wrong to participate in them, because joking about it only trivializes it.

Honestly, Archangel Chuck: “I apologize to any twats who were offended” is not an apology.  Using such a word as an insult is hatespeech, and has no place here.  The burden isn’t on this community to “have a sense of humor” about your sense of entitlement over the space.

Wow, what a closet case.

Hmm - I wonder if this is same idiot who wandered into this thread last night, burbled some idiocy under the name “Fandango”, and promptly got the shit blown out of him by five or six of the regulars?

Dates on the email may not work, though.

Let’s see:

Non sequitur use of “the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment”, when Loving v Virginia was used in previous thread.

“When I was younger and in school…” when he was dinged for being 15 or 16 in the other thread.

Use of insults based around disgust, except for the “you stupid ignorant morons!” when associated with the equal protection bit.

If it is the same person, then we have an Enfant Provocateur,  with a touch of Crybaby.  Given that he went to email instead of responding in public and getting further spanked, he’s also a Howler.

I get a definite ”Why Do All These Homosexuals Keep Sucking My Cock?” vibe from this nutty letter. Perhaps something happened after he was “younger and in school” that “changed his ways.”

How do we know Bushflying62 isn’t female?  I thought I heard somewhere that “bushflying” was a euphemism for some kind of lesbian sexual act.

I thought “Taxachusetts” was the most liberal state in the union to these kinds of people.

@catgirl - does the same apply to calling someone a “dick?”  Is there a problem with the societal acceptance that “dick” is meant to be insulting?  How about “asshole” which is gender neutral?  I’m not making an argument one way or the other, I’m genuinely interested in how you (and others here) feel about terms like “dick.”  I kind of think it relates to the wingnut calling Sotomayor a racist.  I’m a straight white male, so I’ve never been discriminated against for my orientation or race or gender, and I don’t object to anyone calling bushflying62 a dick.

I guess my point is this: I consider myself a feminist, and when I read ArchangelChuck’s original comment, I didn’t bat an eye.  If someone had used a racial or sexual orientation slur, it would have gotten my attention.  I guess I’m trying heighten my sensitivity to what others consider insulting…

How do we know Bushflying62 isn’t female? 

Ummeli, you have a technical point, but in my experience, an over the top rant featuring invective aimed at “sick repulsive sodomites” is always male on the Internet.  If I could be bothered with the psychology, I might burble about the need to establish a despised Other figure to prop up an insecure constructed male identity and fear of his own uncertain sexuality. If a straight female does not like lesbians, dhe doesn’t exhibit a need to rant against them to establish herself as stright in her own mind.

It’s when we get into the territory of, “You can’t say that!” or “How dare you joke about that!” where I stop being a feminist.

Sorry, asshole, but saying “It was just a joke!  You should get a sense of humor.” is an unacceptable response when you get called on bigotry.  All you did there was emphasize your privilege.

When it’s an insult to be called a man or to be told you run or throw like a boy, then we can talk.  But since we had people complaining just the other day that part of the problem with repealing DADT is that drill sergeant types can’t haze people by calling them females or effeminate, we’re not there yet.

Do I see your points?  Yes, absolutely.  Do I agree with them?  Not in the slightest, because I think it shows a severe lack of understanding about how slang works.  I will, however, apologize with the utmost sincerity for being insensitive.

“Sorry, asshole, but saying “It was just a joke!  You should get a sense of humor.” is an unacceptable response when you get called on bigotry.  All you did there was emphasize your privilege.”

I’m sorry?  I’m a lower-middle class Asian atheist.  I hardly have what anyone would call “privilege” in this society.  While I would acknowledge that if I were a woman, I would probably be back a few steps because of male bias, but you’re saying absolutely nothing.  You’ve made zero arguments to justify that I was being a bigot. 

Insensitive, crude, undignified?  Yes.  Bigot?  Hardly…

I’m a lower-middle class Asian atheist.  I hardly have what anyone would call “privilege” in this society.

Except for the male privilege, which was the entire point of Caren’s comment.

...Anyhow.  I’m going to resign to casual lurking, as it appears this isn’t my scene.  In closing, I’ll simply reiterate my apologies for my previous insensitivity.  I’m a guest here, and I certainly didn’t mean to piss on the floor. 

Seeing my way out now.  Cheers.

@catgirl - does the same apply to calling someone a “dick?” Is there a problem with the societal acceptance that “dick” is meant to be insulting?

I actually don’t call anyone a dick, male or female.  I think it’s as bad as calling someone a twat or pussy.

Do I see your points?  Yes, absolutely.  Do I agree with them?  Not in the slightest, because I think it shows a severe lack of understanding about how slang works.

ArchangelChuck, I had decided to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now I realize that you are unwilling to examine your own privilege.  You are the one who has a severe lack of understanding of how slang works.  Slang carries subtle connotations with it, which people pass on without even realizing it, whether they intend to or not.  Try to be a little more aware in the future when you think something is just a joke.

“I thought “Taxachusetts” was the most liberal state in the union to these kinds of people.”

Basically whatever state wingnuttia is hating at the moment is The Most Radical Far-Left Liberal Democrat State Evah!

It’s very closely related to the similar idea that whoever the Democratic Party chooses as its candidate for POTUS is The Most Radical Far-Left Liberal Democrat Senator/Governor/Vice-President/Etc. Evah!  (see references to Obama’s voting record over the last year claiming There Has Never Been a More Radical Ultra-Liberal Socialist Fascist Senator in the Whole History of America, and so far he’s governing as a conservative Democrat or moderate Republican…)

It also seems related to the way we’ve killed/captured hundreds of al Qaeda “Number Two"s over the last 8-years but they never seem to be what they were represented as…

<i> but you’re saying absolutely nothing.  You’ve made zero arguments to justify that I was being a bigot.

I didn’t have to make any argument that you were a bigot.  You did that all by yourself.

I pointed out that telling an offended party to get a sense of humor is the height of privilege.  Threatening to drop your feminist card if we don’t laugh at your “jokes” is as well.

Insensitive, crude, undignified?  Yes.  Bigot?  Hardly…

Because offending women doesn’t even register on your radar? 

Who gives a shit what color you are or what your religion is?  They don’t give you a pass for being a jerk.  You threw around a term derogatory to women, and when a woman called you on it, you told her to get a sense of humor.

Fucking total FAIL.

Threatening to drop your feminist card if we don’t laugh at your “jokes” is as well.

That plus the tone of “let me tell you little ladies what a feminist really is.”  That’s always a hoot.

Actually, I find hatred of the religious right quite tasteful. It goes so well with the drapes.

You can tell he’s “overwhelmingly pleased” by the way he goes on to rant about Teh Gayz for a good page and a half. Frothing with rage always puts *me* in a good mood.

I reckon Chuck will soon start howling that he “used to be a feminist” until those fucking bitches started saying he shouldn’t call them twats.

Tut tut. He probably got an “F” on a spelling test administred by some female teacher and has never gotten over it.

Ooops. Administered, of course. Well, my spelling is still not as vial as his. And isn’t that supposed to be “basterds?”

The difference, of course, is that we don’t call women “dicks” in an attempt to belittle them.

Wait, what? That term seems available for application to everyone. “She was a total dick about it.” Yeah, sounds fine to me.

This thread is making me want to excise all penis-related insults from my vocabulary, though.

Good thing you all ran Chuck off.  That guy was obviously evil to the bone.  Probably rapes and murders puppies.

Onward, to a purer Pandagon!

It’s when we get into the territory of, “You can’t say that!” or “How dare you joke about that!” where I stop being a feminist.

Ahhh, you stop being a feminist when living feminist values would inconvenience you. I see.

I find myself bemused by their constant references to tiny containers.

Oh, well, at least they didn’t dispute being bigoted.
Why shouldn’t churches be protested? Indeed, why not pass a law saying Mormons can’t get married in California? Now that it’s clear that our constitution can be amended to allow de jure bigotry…

Now, if that makes me a BIGOT, then FINE!! I wear that with a badge of honor!

Really?  Then why didn’t you sign the email with your real name?

Jrod, no one was trying to run him off.  We were calling him on his shit.  Trust me, it has been done to me (but not for sexist insults, at least) and I am still here.  If he wants to run and hide when people tell him we resent that a slang term for the female genitalia is used as a put-down equivalent with being stupid or frivolous, that’s completely up to him.

Ugh, slang insults.  My personal UBER TRIGGER is the ever-luscious “cocksucker”.  Yes, it has a homophobic thrust, but few people seem to understand the parallel dimension that term has for women.  Every time I hear a straight guy use that term in the company of straight women, I want to strangle him.  That to me is the pinnacle of privilege right there—using the name of an act your female partner is “expected” to perform as a debasing insult.  Nothing makes me feel smaller.  Really saps the fun from that act for some of us

Seriously—unless you’re Swearingen or Wu, please think before you utter.

Ranylt:

I was just thinking about Deadwood when reading your post.  My absolute favorite line from the series is Mr. Wu shouting “white cocksucker!”  Of course, if Swearingen couldn’t use that word, he’d be close to mute. 

But, yeah, your point is well taken for the rest of us.

Thanks, ranylt - you just made me replay Carlin’s famous 7 words - not the seven words themselves, but the addendum list where he lists other words to show it’s how they’re used - examples cock-tail, cotton balls, beer nuts. 

Thanks, that was a fun trip down juven-alley, nostalgia, memory lane.

That guy was obviously evil to the bone.  Probably rapes and murders puppies.

Wow, that was whiny. I don’t rape or murder puppies, so I guess I also have the right not to be criticized for anything ever.

Nothing makes me feel smaller.  Really saps the fun from that act for some of us

Yeah. I feel really bad for you guys when it comes to that. Why so many men can’t just appreciate that someone wants to do something nice for them without being unnerved and threatened and feeling the need to be assholes about it, I don’t understand.

Also on the list of things I don’t understand: the motivations of someone angry and stupid enough to rail against a woman for being a “sodomite.” I hope it made his day go by a little easier, at least.

Carmicus:

does the same apply to calling someone a “dick?” Is there a problem with the societal acceptance that “dick” is meant to be insulting?

The difference, of course, is that we don’t call women “dicks” in an attempt to belittle them.

As with race, you can’t just straight-up swap the terms and still have a precisely identical statement.

That’s an excellent point.

I saw the use of the word “twat” as a pejorative being used presumably against a male, and I too had the same cringing reaction as most here.  But then my privilege kicked in and I sort of had the same thought as Carmicus, which was “Why is it OK to call someone a dick or a prick but not a pussy or a twat or a cunt?”

And then I realized that the context behind how those words is used is usually quite different, even though in all cases they are using sexual anatomy as pejoratives.  We don’t generally call women “dicks” or “pricks”, and while the context is meant to imply that the (almost always male) target of the insult is a bad person, it isn’t intended to demean them because of their gender qualities.

However when we refer to a male as a “twat” or a “pussy” (males rarely seem to get called “cunts”), it is explicitly intended to demean them because of their perceived gender qualities.  It can be equated with calling them feminine, which is supposed to convey they idea that they are weak or less than.  It’s the same thinking that goes into calling a man a “bitch”.

The point is, we are reinforcing gender stereotypes that posit the absurd notion that women are the “weaker” sex.  If someone would call a woman a “dick” or a “prick” as a way to try to demean them as being overly masculine, nobody would get it, or perceive that to be particularly insulting.  But to call a man something which suggests he might be feminine is supposed to be the highest form of insult in our patriarchy.

Anyway, that was a good explantaion of why calling someone a “dick” doesn’t really compare to calling someone a “twat”.

Jrod, no one kicked him out—they simply told him that using words for women’s anatomy as an insult isn’t acceptable on a feminist blog.
He could have admitted to poor judgment or he could have had thick enough skin to deal with getting told that he was being misogynist in his language. But instead, he couldn’t take his lumps or acknowledge his privilege. He decided to take his ball and go home, since we wouldn’t play nice and let the boys team win.

Somehow, diluting the meaning of feminist to accommodate men who want to be misogynist doesn’t seem like a good way to keep it meaningful. If that’s too damn purist for you, Jrod, you can walk off in huff, too.

Poor little boys, da big mean feminists won’t let you use our bodies as insults without protest.

That to me is the pinnacle of privilege right there—using the name of an act your female partner is “expected” to perform as a debasing insult.

Yup, that bothers me too.

He decided to take his ball and go home, since we wouldn’t play nice and let the boys team win.

It was just a JOKE anyway.  When you can’t make jokes, well, that’s when Chuck packs up his feminist card and Jrod pouts about the unfairness of it all.

I do like “prick” for much the same reason, though.

Me too. I can do without “pussy” because of the ugly, melodramatic hiss, but “twat” is a bit sharper and more fun. I also wouldn’t have a problem with “cunt” if it weren’t dragging around so much hate.

Anyone else get BINGO a while ago? I did.

Queerthulhu fhtagn!

No, seriously, we know idjits like bushflying don’t consider gays to be evil and inhuman, but I never made the connection - hommahsexshuls are the Old Ones!

It sure explains all the “take over the world” fears.
Seraph on 05/27 at 09:05 AM

From what I’ve read of and about Lovecraft, I gather he was a rather cramped, twisted old-school upper-class New England bigot. And that he transmogrified this into his projected mythos.

Sort of like what Tolkien was consciously trying to do for Merrie Old (ie, his romanticized notion of Catholic, medieval) England—write the mythology it should have had—so Lovecraft wrote the creed American reactionaries secretly believe in.

Now that’s real White Guilt. The kind that is desperate to be Not Guilty!

As a slight aside, I do occasionally find myself wishing that “twat” wasn’t such a sexist slur. I’d actually use it, because if you pronounce it like the English do (to rhyme with “cat”), it has this great snap sound to it that is just perfect for rapid-fire insults.

The English also use it for its onomatopoeic potential as a slang verb for “to hit” or “to thump”, which strikes me as acceptable - entirely divorced from misogynist (or, indeed, gendered) implications.

I agree wholeheartedly with ‘cocksucker’ being rude—I always want to confront the person saying that word with, ‘You say that like it’s a BAD thing!’

I managed to get the b/f to the point where he catches himself when using “cocksucker” by using that very quote, TikiHead.  It’s one of my favorites, useful in general, but very obviously so for that term.  Pointing out that most males do consider people who suck their cocks to be pretty much the exact opposite of the implied meaning of cocksucker isn’t as hard to get across why it is bothersome as an insult.  Some of the other misogyny-tinted terms, it’s harder to get across why they are bothersome than simply pointing out that cocksucking is considered to be a good thing.

Love the second definition on urbandictionary - “General all-purpose all-american insult used to describe anyone except the person who actually sucks your cock.”  Yeah, that’s the problem with it, you wouldn’t want to actually call someone doing that for you that, because they may just help make sure that there are no longer any cocksuckers in your life.  And most men would consider that to be a very bad thing.

I’ve used “you say that like it’s a bad thing” on all sorts of homophobic/misogynist comments, usually get at least a “point taken,” but it is especially useful for this phrase.

From what I’ve read of and about Lovecraft, I gather he was a rather cramped, twisted old-school upper-class New England bigot. And that he transmogrified this into his projected mythos.

More or less.  His work is chock-a-block full of racist caricatures and “tainted blood”.  In one of his stories, the final horror is a vision of a future NYC where the “Yellow Peril” has taken over, and another ’ “Medusa’s Coil” - is filled with dark magic and time slippage, but the horrible reveal at the end is that the antagonist is “a negress”. 

On the other hand, I think he hated fish and other sea creatures as well - thus, Cthulhu’s squid-headiness.

And, to give him credit, his central concept of a chaotic universe, where humanity is essentially insignificant, was pretty revolutionary at the time (though I understand Arthur Machen did it first).

Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes

Who gives a shit what color you are or what your religion is?  They don’t give you a pass for being a jerk.  You threw around a term derogatory to women, and when a woman called you on it, you told her to get a sense of humor.

To say nothing of the racism of “Asians can’t help being sexist.”

On a related note, personally, I’ve taken to using “rimming” as my go-to metaphor for the sort of subservience often referred to as (metaphorical) “fellatting.” Degrading without being tied to certain sexualities.

Um, this person does realize that lesbians are least likely to contract HIV, right?

This thread is insane.  Here we have a legitimate idiot, a moron, a hateful bigot whose very existence makes the world a worse place demonstrating his (probably his) ignorance for the whole world.  A fellow feminist calls him out using a term which, in this context, has nothing to do with female anatomy.  Its a common insult and one letter from the word “twit”.  He didn’t mean to insult women, he didn’t mean to degrade them or denigrate them or equate them with the writer of this letter or anything like that.  And instead of everyone focusing on the real villain here (the writer of the letter in the post) we get 50 comments calling out the feminist out for using a word.

As the person who originally called out Chuck on using that word, thank you fellow Pandagonians for dealing with it in such an eleoquent fashion.

And Steve, out of this thread there are 44 comments specifically dealing with the crazy, bigoted email that was the original subject of this post.  Is that enough for you?

The rest, yes, went on a different track - not just calling out Chuck, but also discussing the nature of gendered insults and the use of female and male genitalia for those insults.  I think that’s a legitimate discussion on a feminist blog, non? (And slightly under 50 comments in fact, since we’re counting).

And by the way, “can’t” is one vowel away from “cunt”, so “cunt” is entirely unproblematic, is that your argument?  The fact that “twat” is one vowel away from “twit” is about as relevant as the fact that “dick” is one vowel away from “dock” - i.e. not at all.

would someone PLEASE explain to me how being treated like everyone else, especially in regards to the 14th amendment, equals special treatment?!?!?!

If this is the same idiot who showed up last night, denelian, one of the things used to demolish his arguments (“Gays have equal rights ‘cos they can marry people of the opposite sex like everyone else!”) was the Loving v Virginia case.

By definition, there is no context in which the word “twat” has nothing to do with the female anatomy. Because that’s what the goddamn word means.

In British usage, it’s more-or-less completely lost its original meaning and is now a fairly tame insult of the sort you could get away with on pre-watershed TV. “Fanny”, on the other hand…

He didn’t mean to insult women, he didn’t mean to degrade them or denigrate them or equate them with the writer of this letter or anything like that.

Really?

Then why when a woman let him know she was insulted did he respond with a “If I can’t say whatever I feel like I’m taking my feminist card back” and “It’s a joke” instead of saying what you said?  Namely: “Sorry, didn’t mean to insult women; meant to insult this ass.  Never realized that’s what I was doing.”

If he sincerely didn’t mean to insult someone, upon finding out he did, he’d apologize.  Sincerely.

Instead he got snotty about being allowed to call men girly parts as an insult.  That’s male privilege in a nutshell.

It’s all fine and well being a feminist until those uppity wimmin demand you treat them like equals.  Humorless bitches all.

——-
Herschele—what the fuck?

On a related note, personally, I’ve taken to using “rimming” as my go-to metaphor for the sort of subservience often referred to as (metaphorical) “fellatting.” Degrading without being tied to certain sexualities.

rimming is degrading?

He didn’t mean to insult women, he didn’t mean to degrade them or denigrate them or equate them with the writer of this letter or anything like that.

Umm, that’s sort of the point.  The problem is that people perpetuate stereotypes and attitudes without even realizing they are doing it.  That’s why I wasn’t initially mad at him, but just wanted him to look more closely at the unintended effects of his word choice.  But instead of realizing that actions have effects that you are unaware of, he still said we need to just get a sense of humor and stop caring about all the subtle implications.  If you still think that we are offended by being associated with the wingnut who wrote this letter, you are completely missing the point and you should re-read my previous posts.

In British usage, it’s more-or-less completely lost its original meaning and is now a fairly tame insult of the sort you could get away with on pre-watershed TV.

Um no, sorry.  As a Brit, I disagree.  And anyway, the fact that you (or some others) consider it a “tame insult” is neither here nor there.  A word denoting female genitalia was used to insult.  I have a problem with that whether it is fanny, twat or cunt.

No, you can’t take the sexist connotations out of “twat” or “cunt,” even if you are The British.  Just like you can’t take the homophobic connotations out of “gay!” no matter how much you really, really want it to be that way.  Even if you have female and/or gay friends.

Just like The British often refer to cigarettes as ‘fags.’  When you’re calling a cigarette a fag, you mean cigarette.  When you call a person a fag, you mean they are a cocksucking rimlicking butt pirate and that it is a bad thing to be.  When you call a person a twat, you mean they are a woman’s lady business and that is a bad thing to be.  Especially if you are a man.

Next time I hear a straight guy use the insult “cocksucker”, I’ll say, “You’re just jealous that he’s not sucking your cock.”

This was a fun thread until everyone decided they’d rather it be about the inappropriateness of certain gender-based insults.

Again.

Oh please spence-bob - no one “decided” they’d prefer a thread on gender-based insults.  Someone made a gender-based insult and was called on it.  Sorry if that spoiled your “fun”.

Damn.

There we go getting all pissy b/c someone decided to use our gender as an insult, and, when we pointed out that we don’t appreciate being used as insults, this someone was offended that we couldn’t take a joke and no longer wanted to be a feminist if it meant he couldn’t call people gendered insults whenever he felt like it without being called on it.

Seriously, it wasn’t calling someone a “twat” that was the real problem, though it was insulting.  It was Chuck’s follow up that he wasn’t going to be a feminist if he had to pay attention to what he said and if women couldn’t take a joke.  Because if it’s a JOKE, that makes it all okay, and refusing to laugh at a joke means you’re just humorless and that YOU’RE the problem.

People tried to point out the privileged place he was whining from, and he got huffy and left.

Only to have other concerned, yet huffy jerks come in and keep defending the right to use “twat” as an insult with no consequences, b/c any woman who’s offended is really just humorless and totally missing the point of the bigger asshole over there.  Women can’t possibly keep two things in their minds at once, you know.

Fucking a, you assholes.  Go read Feminism 101.  At the very least, listen when someone says your word choice is offensive and gives a reason why.  You’re completely free to continue being an asshole, but at least be an informed asshole and not one by accident.

I’m late to the flame war but;

You’d think that sort of premise would have a narrow following, but it turns out that if you cobble together people who felt left out of the sexual revolution, the proudly stupid, the racists, and men who live in constant fear that someone’s going to find out that they’re actual pussies, you had enough to put together a coalition that won elections. 
Amanda

Looks like Amanda failed Feminism 101

Just sayin’....

Its a common insult and one letter from the word “twit”

And “cunt” is one letter away from “cant,” which explains why they mean essentially the same thing.

Now ‘toothy cocksucker,’ that’s an insult. But it denotes incompetence, nothing more. I even got my coworkers to start using it. As a gay man, I have suffered the deprivations of toothy cocksuckers, and have practiced long and hard… not to be one myself.

Oops—depredation. Words are hard! (and some are long too!)

Why… it’s almost as if Amanda - a woman not privy to male privilege - can use female-gendered insults in ways that men can’t, without causing the same kind of offense! But no, that would be unfair.

RanyIt: but few people seem to understand the parallel dimension that term has for women.  Every time I hear a straight guy use that term in the company of straight women, I want to strangle him.  That to me is the pinnacle of privilege right there—using the name of an act your female partner is “expected” to perform as a debasing insult.  Nothing makes me feel smaller.  Really saps the fun from that act for some of us

TikiHead: I agree wholeheartedly with ‘cocksucker’ being rude—I always want to confront the person saying that word with, ‘You say that like it’s a BAD thing!’

Djinna: Pointing out that most males do consider people who suck their cocks to be pretty much the exact opposite of the implied meaning of cocksucker isn’t as hard to get across why it is bothersome as an insult.  Some of the other misogyny-tinted terms, it’s harder to get across why they are bothersome than simply pointing out that cocksucking is considered to be a good thing.

Yes to all this.

Contrary to claims, there is no way for anyone - whatever their nationality - to use “cunt” or “twat” as an insult without buying into the intrinsic misogyny. And I’ve used “You say that like it’s a bad thing” (or, in the right company, very sweetly) “I like cunts”, to get people to try and quit.

Doesn’t work very well, I say frankly, because just as many kids do use “it’s so gay” without thinking about how it’s inherently homophobic, so many people do use “you’re a cunt” without thinking about how it’s inherently misogynistic.

Jesurgislac—I like to answer people who say ‘that’s so gay’ in my presence with humor. I say ‘that’s so offensive! We gays prefer faggoty-ass!’ Perhaps a similar tact for the c*** word’s utterance?

not that i disagree with the annoying nature of the term “cocksucker,” but most of us have probably at some point called something a “fucker” and meant it as a bad thing (i think i even caught it used once in this very thread!) sure, it’s bad grammar to use “fucker” to mean “one who fucks,” but it’s basically a similar backhanded compliment (if you want to look at it literally).

on the other hand, while i defer to the judgement of women and feminists more widely versed in the cause than myself, i personally don’t think “girly parts” when i hear the word “twat.” mostly because i have never in any way shape or form thought/refered to my genitalia by that word or any of it’s cousins. i will try and restrain myself in the future, but i have a potty mouth and wide vocabulary comes in pretty handy sometimes.

The controlling principle with straight men, even (especially?) ‘nice guys,™’ is the fear of the FEMININE, not women, per se. The ‘Femenine’ infects and infiltrates them like grade-school Cooties. Manhood can never be a default: one earns it every day. A chance act, like laughing at Kathy Griffin, or watching ‘Trading Spaces,’ can demote you irrevocably, making you non-man (gay) forever.

Please excuse my typos, which are numerous.

Steve:

Its a common insult and one letter from the word “twit”.

Are you trying to argue that his finger slipped?

Caren, I was referring to this:

I’m sorry?  I’m a lower-middle class Asian atheist.  I hardly have what anyone would call “privilege” in this society.  While I would acknowledge that if I were a woman, I would probably be back a few steps because of male bias, but you’re saying absolutely nothing.  You’ve made zero arguments to justify that I was being a bigot.

I guess that’s not exactly “Asians can’t help being sexist,” but at the very least it’s “it’s all right for Asians to be sexist.”

Meanwhile, to use the metaphor “Tony Blair blew George W Bush” is suggesting that Blair is a gay man or a woman, two things that we ordinarily see nothing wrong with; saying “Blair rimmed Bush” makes it clear he was doing something subservient, without forcing something innocuous to be treated as offensive.

Now then, I do not understand why the response to “I’m insulted by that expression you used” is so often “no you’re not” and so seldom “I’m sorry, I’ll stop using it” or at least “I’m sorry, I’ll stop using it in front of you.” Granted, the last is someone who doesn’t really get it, but at least that person isn’t being willfully offensive. I’m thinking not just of this but of a similar discussion at Feministing a few weeks ago.