It’s been a fucked up year for everyone major in politics

I have 30-40 years left.  Why should I go through next year if this is all politics delivers?

I just got disparaged by the President as The Left, in a squabble over the public option.  This is past ridiculous, life is too crazy to get so smashed up by continuous political failure. 

I so have got other things to be dealing with.  I can see massive changes in the way I relate to politics ahead in my life.  I’m sick and can just duck out of the duty, I can stop for my health.

[nods] None of us really how many more spins we have.  I don’t have to twist my life in this shit, I just don’t.

I wasn’t all that enthused about Hillary for president (though I would have voted for her) because I didn’t think that’s where her skill set is and I was really, really glad to see her as Secretary of State because that really is the kind of job that she’s good at. I knew she would do us all proud.  Go Hillary! 

I still can’t get over the idiot I heard the other day saying that when he sees Speaker Pelosi on TV, he feels like Charlton Heston in “Planet of the Apes”, seeing a chimpanzee on horseback.
He just came right out and said that women in positions of power make him feel as though the world has turned upside down—you just know he ain’t crazy about Madame Secretary, either.
And may they both go on for many more years driving guys like that crazy, and even crazier as women ascend to President, Vice President and Chief Justice.

My sentiments exactly about Hillary Clinton.  I wanted to see an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama ticket, wasn’t that choosy about which one—but darn if I don’t think she’s doing so much more as Sec of State than she would have been able to do as VP.  She’s super cool.

Umm you do know that Obama’s policy which Hillary influences and supports is fucked up. We are continuing to screw up in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Now escalationg into Yemen? We are continuing to torture, and hold people without trial.  The U.S. government supported the coup in Honduras. (We are one of about seven nations who recogize their stupid election in which no candidates opposed to the coup took part, during which opponents of the coup continued to be arrested and harrassed and during which much of the opposition press remained shut down.)

I mean I voted for Obama as a lesser evil compared to McCain, and would have done the same for Hillary if she had been the nominee.  I would have loved either as a professor in college or as a next door neighbor, or as a co-worker. But as President and Secretary of State do you really LOVE them given all the wrong decisions they have made that will cost lives? (I don’t think Obama and Hillary can be separated on this. If Hillary seriously disagreed with anything he is doing she could resign, but given her past record it is more likely that t hese are policies she not only supports but has helped shaped. She is brilliant as is he. Why would Obama pick a Secretary of State with her credentials if he was not going to listen to and be influenced by her?) Can you really seperate personality from policy that much and love Hillary and Obama for their personalities in spite of truly destructive policies?

Can you really separate personality from policy that much and love Hillary and Obama for their personalities in spite of truly destructive policies?

That’s my problem with Hillary too. She clearly has an amazing determination, courage and intelligence. But an inspiring figure should use its talents in the service of good causes. So far, Hillary’s record as Secretary of State is mixed. Still, not many people in her position would insist on exposing themselves the way she did to listen to the grievances of Pakistani college students.

That said, she deserves enormous credit for trying to pass an health care bill in 93. Just look at how screwed up things got right now in a much more favorable environment. It’s really one of the best examples you have in recent times that it’s possible to climb very high in the US while conserving a spine.

That said, she deserves enormous credit for trying to pass an health care bill in 93. Just look at how screwed up things got right now in a much more favorable environment. It’s really one of the best examples you have in recent times that it’s possible to climb very high in the US while conserving a spine.

I mean no disrespect to Secretary Clinton, whom I admire, but I don’t think you can call her health care plan (which may have been slightly more progressive than this one, but it didn’t have a public option either) one of her finest hours. It failed. And personally I’m not one for noble failures.

It didn’t help a single person because it never had a chance, I think the fact that some politician had a “spine” is cold comfort to the tens of millions who’ve been without health insurance for the last fifteen years. This is the kind of comment that makes me sympathetic to the notion that some progressives care more about moral purity than they do about solving social problems.

She always could go back to being a Senator and racking up the years, but she’s pretty old already.

But yeah, I don’t think there’s been a secretary of state this competent in my lifetime.  Which, I guess, isn’t saying much, since I was born a Nixon’x end.

She’s really moved mountains.  I know she’s competent, but her strong of victories at this is pretty high.  Of course, the biggest ones still elude, but of course they do, and she has time still.

Funny how you didn’t think like this about Hillary 2 years ago. She was the corporate shill, remember?
Idiots

He just came right out and said that women in positions of power make him feel as though the world has turned upside down

Heh, way back during the primaries, one of my male classmates said he could never vote for a woman, because it might be her time of the month and she’d just push the button to set off nuclear bombs.  Aside from the fact that any president wouldn’t have the power to just go and push some red, cartoonish button without consulting anyone and taking some time to plan, apparently this boy has never heard of menopause.  H Clinton was about 60 years old at the time, so it’s highly unlikely that she even had “times of the month” anymore.  An easy Wikipedia search and simple logic would have shown this guy how silly he was, but since when do misogynists care about facts and reason?

Why do you suppose Condi Rice didn’t make the list?

Even though Clinton was one of the cowards who voted to authorize the war, she didn’t help start it.  Rice did.  For that alone, she’s not an inspiration.  She took her gifts and turned them to evil.

When Obama set her up for Secretary of State, my first reaction was WIN.  Much more WIN than POTUS, for us at least.  I didn’t think she would have made a good president, but I do think she has found her stride here.

I hold both Clintons in minimum high regard. Having said that, let us note for the record that HRC’s primary campaign attacks on Obama as a weak, inexperienced, unprincipled leader have proven to be right on the money.

I don’t agree with everything the Obama admin is doing in the world, but I really do admire Sec. Clinton for what she is doing. I think it’s really hard to acknowledge the good our new admin has accomplished because there is so much more to be done, and some straight-up bad choices. I think you’re right about Hillary, Amanda. She’s been kicking ass.

Oh, fuck off, soopermouse.  I don’t recall this blog dismissing Hillary Clinton as a corporate shill, and I certainly never did.

You know what, let’s fucking re-fight the Hillary/Obama blog wars forever.  That sounds like so much fucking fun.  Just where everyone should be spending their political activist energy.

But yeah, I don’t think there’s been a secretary of state this competent in my lifetime. Which, I guess, isn’t saying much, since I was born a Nixon’x end.

Henry Kissinger was enormously competent. “Competent” and “evil” are orthogonal.

Sorry, but I’m not thrilled with HRC.  I’m glad I didn’t have to vote for her over McCain.

I’m horribly disappointed in my erstwhile senator as well.  But who actually has a chance in hell of doing the right thing anymore?

I knew better than to get caught up in the hope, but, damn it if I didn’t.  And now I’m even more bitter.  Which of course is good for John McCain and the GOP.

When I think about what the world would look like if McCain/Palin had won…..

Oh, and Libertarian? Just fuck off, like a good dishonest libertarian should.

I agree with Commenter #8. Although I like Hillary’s personality, I strongly disagree with her policies. By all accounts she is one of the more hawkish people in the administration. And over the years she has made several statements that really enraged me, e.g.

- After her health care initiative failed in the early 90’s, she strongly blamed uninsured people for the problems with the system.

- She stated that the Iraqi people should be grateful to us for liberating them.

Yeah, tesserai, got any links?

In terms of Iraq - quoting enough to put it in context:

http://www.nhpr.org/node/14173

>Several touched on foreign policy and we began with a moral one – regardless of what the United States does next in Iraq, should this country apologize to Iraqis for triggering events that led to the death of at least 80 thousand Iraqi civilians. Senator Clinton said she didn’t think so.

>Clinton: It’s a difficult question to answer because in my many conversations with Iraqis — in the government, as private citizens and non-governmental organizations — there is a very considerable body of opinion that is very grateful that Saddam Hussein is gone. It’s predominantly Shiite, as you might guess. But it’s also Kurdish. They want the United States to begin to leave, but they do not regret the help that was given to get rid of Saddam

Thank you, Gar Lipow. So tesseral was flat-out mistaken, to put it kindly. Clinton did not say anything about what Iraqis should feel; she made a factual assertion about what they do (did) feel, and she explicitly said that it was a particular body of opinion within specific, identified groups of Iraqis, not something believed universally.

Now, maybe this isn’t true, maybe she made it all up. But she didn’t give Iraqis an order, and she didn’t make an assumption, and she didn’t claim they owed us something. She did not say they “should” be anything. She made a factual assertion about what actual people have said to her. It’s purely a question of whether her reportage is accurate, not of whether she has an offensive or an inoffensive opinion.

I’m happy to have her as SoS, but I will never understand why she left the Senate.  I have to think being the senator with higher visibility than any other (after Kennedy) provides an ever better platform to shape policy than SoS.  And she seemed the obvious person to step into Kennedy’s shoes.  Both were reviled by the Right’s base, and yet both were admired by their Republican peers and were able to effectivly build consensus.  She could have been Senator for life.

Maybe there is just something about working in the executive branch that does it for her in a way that the Senate doesn’t.  But I’ll never get it.

I will try to find links to the quotes I cited above (#23), but they were both very strong statements that put me off.

I can’t find the health care quote, but here’s a citation to her statement that “we have given the Iraqi people the precious gift of freedom”:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june08/campaign_03-19.html

I’m not even sure that the Iraquis are much better off with their current regime than they were with Saddam, but to make such a statement without referring to the tremendous damage we inflicted on them is reprehensible.

That would seem to confirm Tesserai’s point.  In general I think the point Tesserai and I are both making are:

1) The stuff that Obama admin is doing foreign policy wise is awful. I don’t see it as mixed. It is slightly less awful than Bush and McCain, but it still does not fill me with love for the Obama admin.

2) Hillary is part of the Obama admin. Most of the worst of what they are doing in foreign policy is consistent with what Bill Clinton did when he was President, what Hillary did in the Senate and what Hillary campaigned when running for President. Since Clinton is SecState and plays a major role in executing all this, there is every reason to expect she sincerely backs Obama on this, and probably played a role in shaping policy.

3)Thus I don’t get the “pure Hillary love”. Can you really seperate what a person is from what they do, especally when they are not even personal friends? Or is “not as bad as McCain” good enough for you? Are you grading on a curve when handing out love?

So, you take that way out of context—-she’s talking about how awful the war was, how it has to be ended—-and that’s why she rubs you the wrong way? Sure.

Ginmar - Are you referring to the quote in comment #30? I agree that I misremembered her claim regarding how the Iraqis should feel, but the actual quote expresses a similar attitude and is not any better.

Here’s the entire paragraph:

“I am convinced that we can start within 60 days and do it in a responsible and careful manner, recognizing that the Iraqi government has to take responsibility for its own future, that we have given them the precious gift of freedom, and it is up to them to decide whether or not they will use it.”

This sounds to me that she is saying that we did the Iraqis a big favor and that we are not responsible for what transpires there in the future.

That’s what rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, how should we respond to the fact that Ms. Clinton seems to be one of the more hawkish personalities in the Obama administraton?

tesseral

there was nothing in that link that reported that HRC said “the Iraqi people should be grateful to us for liberating them” That’s what you accused her of saying.

2) Hillary is part of the Obama admin. Most of the worst of what they are doing in foreign policy is consistent with what Bill Clinton did when he was President, what Hillary did in the Senate and what Hillary campaigned when running for President. Since Clinton is SecState and plays a major role in executing all this, there is every reason to expect she sincerely backs Obama on this, and probably played a role in shaping policy.

Precisely. I don’t see how anyone could seriously believe that a hypothetical (H) Clinton administration would be substantially different from the actual Obama administration. The fact that one is brown and one female seems to have obscured the fact that they both seem to inhabit the same spot on the political spectrum, at least as far as this outside observer can tell.

Shakahi at #35: I admit I misremembered the quote, but what she did say is just as bad.

Why do you suppose Condi Rice didn’t make the list? I may not like her policies or the administration she worked for, but she still strikes me as a more inspiring woman than, say, Angelina Jolie.

I think Rice could have been a good addition to the list, but certainly not instead of Jolie. Given the type of media coverage she often get, tt is easy to overlook her role as a goodwill ambassador for UNICEF, but she does a lot of great work in that role, and has helped raised awareness of the great work UNICEF does. And it’s not just feel-good gestures from her side - it’s estimated that she has given more than 1/3 of her lifetime income to the work of UNICEF.

In some ways, I’ll disagree with Amanda that there are no activists on the list. Jolie could be considered an activist (as well as an entertainer).

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