Damn those adult choices being pushed upon small children!  After the small children decide what to wear, what to prepare for their food, which school to go to, which educational pursuits to engage in during the day, which group of fellow children to be in, which educators to have, what time to leave school, how to arrange a ride home, what to prepare for dinner, whether or not to do homework or to give themselves chores, and whether or not to go to bed at their self-appointed time, now some people want to give children more choices?!  That’s insane!  If Proposition 8 does not pass, those children will soon be deciding to marrry off their adult relations regardless of the sexual preferences of those adults!

This must not happen!

Why oh WHY are these nuts not out there protesting divorce? Having two loving parents, or seeing two loving parents can’t possibly be as shattering and disillusioning as having your parents screaming at each other or watching little Billy next door try to tell his dad that he still loves his mom (or vice versa) after a really acrimonious divorce.

Divorce happens to more people and is more destructive to families (since Gay Marriage isn’t destructive at all…), so why aren’t they pushing for mandatory councelling when entering into a marriage and working to make divorce rare? It would certainly do far more for the children of the country than preventing Gay Marriage would!

(and I think that they believe children will lose their innocence because Gay Marriage makes straight people think about various gay sex acts 24-7… it must be true because it’s how it affects the protesters! </sarcasm>)

Of course, indoctrinating children with disgusting stories about dying gods atoning for our sins by allowing themselves to be murdered in exceptionally barbaric ways doesn’t disturb their innocence at all.

I’ve had otherwise sane, gay-friendly straight friends fly into a tizzy that I might say/do something gay in front of their precious, innocent little angels, thus tainting them forever with Sodomitical thoughts.

There is s strong component of this in the antigay thinking—our very existence embarrasses them. If they had control of the world, our invisibility would be assured, one way or another (bullets or closets).

I’m coming to really, really hate the concept of “innocence” (and the closely related “purity”) as a virtue to be preserved at all costs.  It’s beyond me how anyone can think that it’s good for children to stay as inexperienced, ignorant and unprepared as possible—what a mean, narrow, life-hating view.

There are positives to “innocence” as virtue, like curiosity and open-mindedness. Of course those are the very traits that fuckwits like Thomasson want to eliminate. What he really means is ignorance.

histrogeek, I guess I don’t see curiosity, open-mindedness, etc., as being necessarily connected to lack of life experience a.k.a. “innocence”; they aren’t things that necessarily go away as one gains experience, either.  But you’re right: when people talk about “preserving children’s innocence” what they mean is ignorance.

Oh no! The innocence of thinking that everyone in the world is the same as you and your family! Soooo precious!!

[/snark]

What is this “innocence” that will be lost?

Why, the “innocence” that lets you hate and fear gay people, of course.

And he argues that adult choices should not be pushed upon small children.

Even by the usual standards of a “won’t somebody think of the children!” argument, that’s a doozy. Small children are the result of adult choices. They don’t appear like mushrooms, you know…

Of course, the innocence of children is what they *don’t* like. Little kids don’t obsess with sex unless some adult has put it in their mind. Tell a child Janet and Mary are married, and the child imagines the women dressed up for a wedding or cooking dinner for their own children. Maybe they will ask if it’s Mary or Janet who goes out to play catch with the kids, because at their home, playing sports is a male function.
Older children, of course *will* want to know about sex, if only because their classmates are saying weird things and they want to know what they mean. But children do grow up—and it’s parental immaturity not to expect that and help with it.

You have to remember that conservatives can not divorce being gay with gay people having sex, in their minds. They assume that children have that same problem. “Well if Johny has two daddies they must be committing sodomy! I think I am going to loose my milk and cookies in disgust.”

I think Frito’s got it. They are obsessed with sex and cannot think about gay relationships without playing, over and over again in their heads, the mechanices of their sex lives. I got to a relatively advanced age without ever contemplating my own parents having sex, despite the evidence that they did in the form of my existence and my brother’s existence. I don’t see what’s so hard about saying “some boys like girls and some boys like boys, some girls like boys and some girls like girls.”
If you feel compelled to add “Mommy and Daddy think it’s wrong for boys to like boys and girls to like girls,” I would think you were very, very wrong to say something like that, but nonetheless, you could still pass on your “values” without compromising anyone’s “innocence.”

Does anyone else remember being a kid and finding out how sex works?  I think almost everyone said, “Wait, are you KIDDING me?!?  Who the hell would ever want to do that?”  So I can’t see that little kids finding out about homosexual sex to be all that more disgusting or traumatizing than when they find out about hetero sex.

Exactly what Frito said - it’s a dogwhistle for “your children will be taught about TEH BUTTSEX in kindergarten”.

What is this “innocence” that will be lost?

Is it just me or am I the only one who remember some book somewhere that talked about a garden and a serpent and some fruit of knowledge?

If these guys believe that all humanity is tained by original sin of “the knowledge of good and evil” from birth then how can anyone be innocent?

I have to say, I agree 110% that a child’s “innocence” should never, ever be tampered with, especially by that innocence-sapper extrodinaire, “marriage”.  SO, I humbly submit the folowig proposal, which I hope will be adopted immediately by the Campaign for Children and Families and all other right-thinking people.

1. Any reference to marriage in schools should be made illegal.  Effective immediately, all female teachers should go by the title “Ms.”, and should revert to their unmarried name.  No school employee should wear a wedding band, or in any other way refer to the fact that they are married.

2. All educational materials should be vetted for “innocence appropriatness”.  Any references to families, marriage, or human cohabitation which implies a sexual relationship should be removed.

3. All parents of children attending school should be given an “Innocence Sensitivity” training kit, which, among other things, offers helpful suggestions on how to hide their marriage, or how to procure a low cost, legal divorce so that their child’s “innocence” might be spared.

4. A “Defence of Innocence” Act should be introduced in Congress, stating; “The innocence-stealing abomination that is Marriage shall not be allowed, implicitly or explicitly, in the United States of America.”

Long Live Innocence!

When I was a kid, my family had a gay family friend. I had no idea gay marriages were illegal, and this friend’s partner was always referred to as his husband. i never thought anything of it, i didn’t even care…

when i did find out gay marriage was illegal, i thought it was the dumbest thing i ever heard, and sexist. (why should one’s genitals make a difference if you can marry them or not??)

“Well if Johny has two daddies they must be committing sodomy! I think I am going to loose my milk and cookies in disgust.”

The funny thing about this argument, is plenty of straight, conservative, people give their kids 2 mommies or 2 daddies without gayness even coming into play! They are called step-parents, and are very very common.

My roommate’s mother has been married 3 times, and her dad twice. She basically has 3 father’s and 2 mothers! (just because her mom divorced her first step-father, my roommate didn’t, and still considers him a father since he raised her for 8 years.)

“It is an illusion that youth is happy, an illusion of those who have lost it; but the young know they are wretched, for they are full of the truthless ideals which have been instilled into them, and each time they come in contact with the real they are bruised and wounded.” - Maugham

And here I thought I could read a thread without encountering ableist language….

Thanks Kate. :(