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Next entry: Bam Bam’s Laws of Moral Physics Previous entry: Black GOP consultant: will Steele be given power to bring real change to the GOP?

Republican is the new speed polka

Man, this is what I get for traveling for a couple of days and not reading blogs.  I finally caught up last night, and saw that I had missed Sadly, No and Whiskey Fire had linked to Big Hollywood reaching for new levels of douchebaggery—-past whining that they’re millionaires that are oppressed at cocktail parties and past perhaps even whining that they let girls invade sci-fi TV show (leaving them only with Grand Theft Auto to prove their manhood to themselves, though no one else), and onto levels of self-delusion such as believing that you turned purple last night but no one else can see it.  Oh yes, Doug TenNapel is pulling the classic right wing insecurity thing—-knowing that the left has all the cool clothes, good music, and best heroes, they try to come in and claim that stuff was actually all theirs all along, unaware that there’s nothing sadder than a Republican weenie claiming he’s got a great sex life or that MLK would have voted for McCain. 

Republican is the New Punk

BWAH HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHBWAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH *hits floor* GASP GASP BWAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAH *wipes tears from eyes, stands up to write more*

D. Aristophanes explains that this is about exploiting the ambiguity of the phrase “punk rock”, a term that TenNapel avoids defining because any reasonable definition would kill his thesis that “Republican is the New Punk”—-

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA OH SHIT I CAN’T BREATHE GASP BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH *crawls to the bathroom, slipping on a puddle of tears* BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH RETCH SPLASH *leans on toilet, still giggling* ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


Okay, sorry about that.  It’s just that I kept thinking about the coalition of Ann Coulter, prairie muffins, men with giant beer bellies and belt buckles to match, cranky old people who want you off their lawn, and Dennis Prager being anything close to “punk rock”, when all of the above find it their sworn duty to get irate at manifestations of punk rock that enter their visual or aural space.  But it’s like the desperate claims that MLK would have been a conservative.  They do it because MLK’s dead and he can’t defend himself.  Perhaps TenNapel saw a T-shirt that said, “Punk is dead,” and figured he could pull the same stunt. But while many punk innovators are dead (including the sole Republican in the group, Johnny Ramone), there’s plenty still kicking around that may not enjoy being slandered while they’re still alive.  (Though we lost Lux Interior last night.)  Of course, this article isn’t about convincing anyone.  It’s about making a bunch of two bit nimrods who’ve never set foot in a punk club in their life feel like they’re so cool no one else can see it.

It’s also hugely racist.

Johnny Cash was punk rock. The birth of rock came when Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison and Cash toured small towns and set the youth on fire. Parents were outraged. The long dippity-doo hair atop gyrating men “dancing like the negroes”  before frothing young girls set mainstream culture against this rebellious little movement. It was our first smell of anarchy and it scared the establishment.

Look, parents weren’t upset because rock and rollers were “like Negroes”—-they were also upset because they were in fact black people.  I can’t believe the nerve of this motherfucker to write this paragraph.  Johnny Cash and Roy Orbison invented rock?  You know, more than Ike Turner or Chuck Berry?  Why not just come right out and claim that Pat Boone invented rock with his smashing original compositions “Ain’t That A Shame” and “Tutti Fruiti”?  It’s probably easier for the know-nothings in his audience to swallow than the idea that a country-western musician like Johnny Cash somehow invented rock without ever playing it. 

But there’s a reason for this unsubtle racist revisionism, which is that this is all about how betrayed he feels that white rock musicians backed Obama. I fully expect the next essay to be about how there’s nothing more rock and roll than grousing about young people with their hip hop music, which is of course nothing like a bunch of grumpy conservatives in the 50s complaining about what they called “Negro music”. 

The rebellious spirit of rock is dead. No better evidenced than by its formal endorsement of President Obama. Never before has rock been so central to the inauguration of a president. Bono is an ambassador in sunglasses who still knows how to pull a string and get an audience of thousands to put their fist in the air.

He goes on from there, but that’s the most important part of the argument.  He’s trying to position Republicans as anti-establishment because they have a minority party that represents wealthy white people who run the country regardless of who’s in office.  Indeed, we can all expect TenNapel to switch to the Democratic party immediately when the Republicans gain power, because real punk rockers embrace a rebellion so mindless as to be utterly meaningless.  If you’re drinking Pepsi, he’ll be hitting the Coke to show you what anarchy means. 

But wait! He has a picture of Johnny Ramone, who voted for Republicans, looking cool!

Devastating argument, that one.  At least if you know for a fact that your audience knows absolutely nothing about punk rock, and doesn’t know that The Ramones released (over Johnny’s complaints) the devastating protest song “My Brain Is Hanging Upside Down” and, in another song, implied that being a Republican was like being in the KKK. 

The real victims here are the morons who take Big Hollywood seriously, as they are being played for fools.  (And, of course, anyone who suffers the effects of them voting, which is the rest of the nation.) They swallow these crackpot theories whole because they’re too ignorant to know any better, and because they have a reasonable expectation that they’ll never encounter someone who really is punk rock long enough to share this crackpot idea.  Without the risk of having someone laugh in their face and make them realize to the tips of their toes that they really do suck as much as they feared, they’re free to trade these self-serving, blatantly racist ideas until their fingers loosen and they finally let go of their last grasp on reality. 

But hey, there is one Republican punk band I know of, especially for those out there (such as the readers of Big Hollywood) who have a complete tin ear for irony.  The Austin-based band the Yuppie Pricks can fill that need for you, so buy their album:

Here’s a band that played in the same clubs at the same time as The Ramones, expressing how punk rock is the exact same thing as the begrudging red state pseudo-populism:

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 01:15 PM • (101) Comments

I’m reminded of that “Daily Show” clip from 4 1/2 years back, in which one of the analysts (I’ve forgotten which) is interviewing a “conservative punk rocker” (complete with face paint). At one point, the interviewer asks, with just a touch of flippancy, “So you’re sort of ‘Rage For the Machine?” The young man being interviewed just nodded without the slightest hint of irony. Which goes to show that conservatives could never be the “new punk” because they have no true understanding or appreciation of creative nonconformity (or any other kind, for that matter). It’s just the latest facet of their grand martyr pose.

Comment #1: Sadie Morrison  on  02/05  at  01:35 PM

QED.

Comment #2: Auguste  on  02/05  at  01:43 PM

Wow, what a bunch of wankers.  There’s always a bunch of weirdos in any group, self-identified or not, but I can’t imagine the levels of self-delusion you have to go through to believe you’re punk rock and conservative.  I thought the days of neo-nazi skinheads were basically over.  Maybe they migrated to the internet.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  01:47 PM

More fun “conservative” punk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-giHCNI8gM

Comment #4: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  01:49 PM

No man it’s like the best comedians are deadpan, not showing that they know there’s a joke. Republicans are so punk that they don’t even know they’re ironic.

<Takes 10 shots of Everclear, with an LSD/modeling glue chaser.>

Or maybe they’re so punk because Republicans are so nonconformist that they fight against the very nature of reality itself.

<Attempts to mix Jaeger, heroin, PCP, and burnt plastic fumes. Brain still seizes at the idea.>

Comment #5: histro-geek  on  02/05  at  01:50 PM

Just got that news about Lux Interior. Now I am sad.

I read this on Sadly, No! yesterday and just laughed. This type of argument is the most ridiculous thing ever. I honestly can’t believe that anyone would actually BELIEVE this crap. However, I’ve been wrong before.

Comment #6: Mark  on  02/05  at  01:54 PM

This argument is brought to you by the same colostomy-bags who printed up the “Viva La Reagan Revolution” T-shirt, which can be seen carefully tucked into a pair of Dockers on a reactionary near you.

Comment #7: FlipYrWhig  on  02/05  at  02:21 PM

I’m still laughing over the white people invented rock nonsense.

Play this game:

Play Chuck Berry’s “Sweet Little Sixteen”
Play The Beach Boys’ “Surfin’ USA”
Explain how George Harrison had to pay up for “My Sweet Lord”/“He’s So Fine” and The Beach Boys didn’t.

Comment #8: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  02/05  at  02:24 PM

Everybody knows Marty McFly invented Rock ‘N Roll, and then showed those negroes how to play it.  And since Marty McFly was played by Michael J. Fox, who also played Alex Keaton, Conservative Yuppie Prick, in Family Ties, this proves that Conservatives invented Rock ‘N Roll, which means that they also invented Punk!

(that makes at least as much sense as Goldberg’s asinine assertion that because Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, he must have been a liberal…)

Comment #9: MikeEss  on  02/05  at  02:34 PM

I think they’re just confused.  They’re mistaking the squares’ definition of “punk” (someone who goes against the grain for no reason other than to piss off the oldsters, someone who enjoys pissing others off just for the sake of pissing them off) with punks’ own definition of what they are.  Modern-day conservatives can conceivably fit into the squares’ definition of the word.  At this point they just seem to be pissing people off and tearing things down for the sheer fun of it.

Comment #10: keshmeshi  on  02/05  at  02:37 PM

“At this point they just seem to be pissing people off and tearing things down for the sheer fun of it.”

...um, wouldn’t the word “vandal” be a better fit for the Republicans than “punk”?...

Comment #11: MikeEss  on  02/05  at  02:41 PM

Kind of reminds me of when Henry Rollins played the Dennis Miller show.

Comment #12: Ms Kate  on  02/05  at  02:52 PM

My party has been flushed.

My worldview is exhibiting TOTAL FAIL when empirically tested.

People laugh at me and call me a wanker and a loser when I try to explain that it isn’t really like it is.

I MUST be a REBEL!

Comment #13: Ms Kate  on  02/05  at  02:55 PM

Caren, it gets even weirder than that.  “He’s So Fine” was written by a white man, but performed by a group of black women, the Chiffons.  The Chiffons were wildly popular, but abused by a record industry that wanted to promote the music without risking the ire of angry, racist parents who became the Republican base.  Solution?  Put white people on the cover of their records.  It was common practice throughout the 50s and 60s—-a lot of original cuts of records by everyone from The Chiffons to James Brown had white people on the cover, or no people at all.  The Chiffons, however, moved to putting the actual group on the cover of records under pressure from civil rights activists.

I doubt the actual Chiffons got a dime off the lawsuit, but they did record a version of “My Sweet Lord”, which I think is funny. 

To bring this bizarre history around to punk rock, the main influence on the sound of The Ramones is that of the girl groups like The Chiffons.  So this racist erasing of black people from rock history doesn’t just stop in the 50s—-if you love Johnny Ramone, you should own what he owes to a sound developed and perfected by black teenage girls.

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  03:06 PM

Republicans are the new punks?  Well, maybe the lower level members of the party are, but only in the prison sense . .

Comment #15: rea  on  02/05  at  03:10 PM

I guess “Bonzo Goes To Bitburg” just flew right by him.

I seem to recall the National Front in England trying to pull the same thing in the 1970’s with about as much effectiveness, and The Jam getting practically drummed out of the movement when they announced their intention to vote for Thatcher.

Proud conservative moments, I’m sure.

So this racist erasing of black people from rock history doesn’t just stop in the 50s—-if you love Johnny Ramone, you should own what he owes to a sound developed and perfected by black teenage girls.

The influence of reggae on punk is also not often noted.

Comment #16: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  03:14 PM

About ten years before punk rock appeared on the American scene, most of its themes were indited by the European far left.  Greil Marcus has proven this 1) in more than one book, 2) in a scholarly manner, and 3) far beyond any reasonable person’s level of satisfaction.  Trying to claim punk rock for Republicanism is like trying to identify Karl Marx as a secret Bircher.  Not only are the righties not cool enough to claim a connection with punk rock, the tenets of punk were designed to be at war with the dogmas of rightiness.  Repugs can harrumph “I’m a rebel” all they want, but that’s not something they can change.

What’s motivating righties to adopt this tack?  I can’t help wondering whether it isn’t some innate attraction toward counterfactuality.  After all, if rightiehacks can prove that punk rock and Republicanism are the same thing, why shouldn’t they be able to prove that infrastructure projects don’t enliven an economy but that tax cuts do, that GWB was the Greatest President Evah (with Herbert Hoover running a close second) and that the project closest to Dick Cheney’s heart is a secret scheme to donate candy to puppies and disabled kids?  Why not?  Why shouldn’t they be able to prove that up is down, wet is dry, and that (when it comes to Music Appreciation Stuff) we’ll get a better take by reading their tawdry blogs than by listening to the material in question and believing our lying ears?  Hunh?

Comment #17: bekabot  on  02/05  at  03:18 PM

..um, wouldn’t the word “vandal” be a better fit for the Republicans than “punk”?…

Well, insofar as vandals were a sort of low-rent version of goths, that would make sense.

Comment #18: paul  on  02/05  at  03:23 PM

“I thought a punk was someone who took it up the ass”

-William Burroughs

Comment #19: Justin K.  on  02/05  at  03:24 PM

I have inside information that New Model Army’s “Spirit of the Falklands” is on Dick Cheney’s iPod.

Comment #20: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  03:26 PM

Come on Amanda, we both know there’s more right wing punk rockers (that aren’t just being ironic) than just Johnny Ramone.

Skrewdriver is the perfect example

Comment #21: beylita  on  02/05  at  03:35 PM

Hell, I remember just a few years ago when “South Park Republicans” were going to take over the world…

Comment #22: Scott  on  02/05  at  03:35 PM

Republicat cannot haz punk rok.

NOT YURZ!

Comment #23: Samantha Vimes  on  02/05  at  03:37 PM

Republicans are so much more dignified when they try to appeal to the crowd of young people that get turned on by wearing a jacket and tie to class when they’re 18 years old. I mean, really, they should embrace their core competencies: conformity, admiration of the wealthy, and submission to authority figures. There are plenty of people who find that message appealing. No need to try to dress it all up in punk-rock clothing.

Comment #24: Tyro  on  02/05  at  03:39 PM

Play Chuck Berry’s “Sweet Little Sixteen”
Play The Beach Boys’ “Surfin’ USA”
Explain how George Harrison had to pay up for “My Sweet Lord”/“He’s So Fine” and The Beach Boys didn’t.

Actually, the Beach Boys did have to pay. They were hit with a lawsuit from Berry right after Surfin’ USA was released in 1963. Obviously, the Beach Boys didn’t have a leg to stand on. (Most likely this was yet another case of Murry Wilson—Brian’s dad, who controlled the Beach Boys’ music publishing—“forgetting” to credit a songwriter whose last name wasn’t Wilson.) Long story short: the case was settled with Chuck Berry credited as co-writer of the tune on all subsequent releases. So he’s been getting substantial (and well-deserved) royalty checks for the past forty years.

A similar incident happened between Chuck and The Beatles when the courts determined that John Lennon had stolen parts of “You Can’t Catch Me” when he wrote “Come Together.” (More than a year before the Harrison fiasco.) The case was settled when Lennon agreed to record a new version of Berry’s original tune—which was eventually released on the “Rock n’ Roll” album.

Moral of this story: Don’t fuck with Chuck.

Comment #25: Amazing Larry  on  02/05  at  03:40 PM

bekabot, 10 years before punk showed up in America?  Like all great rock innovations, Americans invented punk rock.  Then the British took it and redelivered it to us in a more political form, but no matter how early you put the “first” punk band—-MC5, Stooges, Ramones, New York Dolls—-they’re all Americans.

Comment #26: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  03:55 PM

Evidently someone can’t tell the difference between punk and skin-head.
Must be so focused on the boots.

Comment #27: cynickal  on  02/05  at  03:57 PM

I mean, the Brits gave us the Beatles, and that’s not nothing, obviously.  I’d never say the Brits don’t have great, innovative musicians.  But they didn’t invent punk rock. And John Lennon chose to live in NYC in his later years for a reason.

Comment #28: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  03:59 PM

Malcolm McLaren was the New York Dolls’ manager for about thirty seconds before going home to England and forming the Sex Pistols (to advertise his shop, “Sex”).

Comment #29: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  04:00 PM

I thought the days of neo-nazi skinheads were basically over.

Unfortunatly it’s never really over. We punks and antifa skins still have the occasional fist fight with the bastards in Montreal, and I’m guessing we’re not the only city with this plague.

As for right-wing punk, while the theory of music that gave rise to punk was rooted in the left, situationism and such, there’s always plenty of people to recuperate this. In particular the hardcore offshoot (which I like, as long as I stick to the left-wing bands) has way too many right-wing bands (or ‘apolitical’ bands, which overall means the same thing). Agnostic Front, Blood for Blood, the rather noxious Pitboss 2000. Someone already mentionned Skrewdriver over the pond.

Comment #30: BlackBloc  on  02/05  at  04:05 PM

The difference between punk and skinhead resides mostly in how much hair they have. Seriously. It’s been at least 20 years that the two tribes can’t be told apart. There’s a huge overlap of the bands they listen to.

Comment #31: BlackBloc  on  02/05  at  04:08 PM

Other than that picture of Johnny Ramone, he doesn’t even offer up any examples. It makes me think he’s not even that familiar with the genre. BlackBloc’s right that there’s some right-wing hardcore bands. I hadn’t really thought of that. I suppose Jonah Goldberg could try to claim California Uber Alles (Jerry Brown version, not Ronald Reagan version) as part of his liberal fascism schtick. But there’s really not a lot for them to work with. Of course, given the misuse they’ve made of Born in the USA, you can’t expect much of these people.

Comment #32: chingona  on  02/05  at  04:14 PM

Greg Graffin of Bad Religion wrote an excellent essay on just what punk is and isn’t: <http://punkhistory0.tripod.com/punk/id2.html>

I’m quoting his summary, and if any of these have even the tiniest to do with what Republicans of the last several decades have really stood for, I’ll eat my hat.

—-
PUNK IS: the personal expression of uniqueness that comes from the experiences of growing up in touch with our human ability to reason and ask questions.

PUNK IS: a movement that serves to refute social attitudes that have been perpetuated through willful ignorance of human nature.

PUNK IS: a process of questioning and commitment to understanding that results in self-progress, and through repetition, flowers into social evolution.

PUNK IS: a belief that this world is what we make of it, truth comes from our understanding of the way things are, not from the blind adherence to prescriptions about the way things should be.

PUNK IS: the constant struggle against fear of social repercussions.

Comment #33: ScottK  on  02/05  at  04:19 PM

Unfortunatly it’s never really over. We punks and antifa skins still have the occasional fist fight with the bastards in Montreal, and I’m guessing we’re not the only city with this plague.

This really takes me back. Big brawls at the DIY shows down at the union hall between Nazi skinheads and Straight-Edgers.

Comment #34: chingona  on  02/05  at  04:23 PM

bekabot, 10 years before punk showed up in America?  Like all great rock innovations, Americans invented punk rock.  Then the British took it and redelivered it to us in a more political form, but no matter how early you put the “first” punk band—-MC5, Stooges, Ramones, New York Dolls—-they’re all Americans.

I’m not talking about the music as such, I’m talking about the ideas purveyed by the music (you can translate that into “the lyrics” if you want, though there was a certain amount of interpenetration between the medium and the message going on).

The bands were admittedly British and American, but the ideas were pretty much identical to the ideas being promulgated by feisty French students in 1968.

I don’t like to recommend books, but: read Lipstick Traces and you’ll see what I mean.

Comment #35: bekabot  on  02/05  at  04:38 PM

Amanda, I think bekabot is talking about how Marcus finds the roots of punk rock in continental European (mostly French, not really British so much) schools of thought like the situationist international and the 1968 paris commune.  However, I haven’t read that book in a long time (Lipstick Traces).

Comment #36: olivetti  on  02/05  at  04:41 PM

oh, oops! you beat me to it.  I second the recommendation of lipstick traces!

Comment #37: olivetti  on  02/05  at  04:42 PM

Jerry, Doyle, Dr. Chud, and some of the other lower-profile members of the Misfits are pretty reliably classifiable as conservative.

Comment #38: protected static  on  02/05  at  04:45 PM

The ideas of youth rebellion as declared by the Communards fairly similar to those of the Beats in the U.S. ten years earlier, and to a lesser extent like their U.S. and Mexican contemporaries (although the Yippies and company had a more explicit political program). And of course the Punks were several years after all of them and had a very different aesthetic from the earlier movements.
Basically the rebellion against modern society and institutions that alienate the individual has a long history. Punk was part of that tradition (weird to imagine punk has being part of a tradition), but it is a unique in how it choose to express that rebellion.

Comment #39: histro-geek  on  02/05  at  04:58 PM

Greg Graffin of Bad Religion wrote an excellent essay on just what punk is and isn’t

PUNK IS NOT: writing an essay on what punk is.

Comment #40: Sarcastro  on  02/05  at  04:59 PM

Bono is an ambassador in sunglasses who still knows how to pull a string and get an audience of thousands to put their fist in the air.

And Ted Nugent still knows how to pull a trigger and get thousands of NRA funanuts and NASCAR fans a hootin’ and a hollerin’ for him. Your point Doug?

Comment #41: Danica Lefse Queen  on  02/05  at  05:01 PM

(that makes at least as much sense as Goldberg’s asinine assertion that because Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, he must have been a liberal…)

Of course Jonah can’t be bothered to do his homework. Hitler was not a vegetarian.

Comment #42: asdf  on  02/05  at  05:05 PM

PUNK IS NOT: writing an essay on what punk is.

I guess there never was a punk zine.

Hey Sarcasto, I know the point of your handle is to set yourself aside as clever and edgy. So, have you ever said anything clever?

Comment #43: asdf  on  02/05  at  05:10 PM

Look, pointing out the roots of punk is well and good, but you can’t divorce the ideas from the bands without losing something essential in the process.

I’m going with punk as an American invention:  listen to Johnny Rotten covering “Roadrunner,” going faster miles an hour.  And don’t forget Pere Ubu.

Comment #44: Dr. Locrian  on  02/05  at  05:12 PM

This argument is brought to you by the same colostomy-bags who printed up the “Viva La Reagan Revolution” T-shirt, which can be seen carefully tucked into a pair of Dockers on a reactionary near you.

Ronald Reagan colostomy bags, on the other hand, is a product I’d like to see.

Comment #45: Captain Bathrobe  on  02/05  at  05:24 PM

If they’re so punk, let’s hear them sing “God Save The Queen”.

If you wanna see how punk they really are, burn a flag in front of them.

Comment #46: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  02/05  at  05:34 PM

PUNK IS NOT: writing an essay on what punk is.

Nice.

Comment #47: Richard Goblin  on  02/05  at  05:36 PM

I guess there never was a punk zine.

I take it you read Tiger Beat for its insightful pieces on the psychology of adolescent development?

Comment #48: Sarcastro  on  02/05  at  05:37 PM

I’m going to go out on a limb and say Greg Graffin is punker than you.

Comment #49: chingona  on  02/05  at  05:42 PM

Punky Brewster was punkier than these guys.

Comment #50: Mighty Ponygirl  on  02/05  at  05:43 PM

Another little historical tidbit:  Punk got its name from a zine with that word as the title.  The first issue featured a drawing of Lou Reed as Frankenstein’s Monster.

And as long as we’re throwing book titles out:  “England’s Dreaming” by Jon Savage.  It’s a complete (and I mean complete; damn thing’s so thick you could club a rhino into unconsciousness with it) history of punk’s first wave in the 1970’s.

Comment #51: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  05:47 PM

Sarcastro, we are in the presence of people who have never cracked a book of Rollins’ work.

Comment #52: Ms Kate  on  02/05  at  06:14 PM

Republican as punk rock is pretty laughable.
It’s pretty far from the original arty intellectual New York punk of Television, Richard Hell, and Patti Smith which was deeply connected to the Beats, Existentialism, Jean Genet, and Arthur Rimbaud. Or the leftist punk ideals of The Clash, X-Ray Spex, the Dead Kennedys…
But then there was that unfortunate bastardization of Punk known as Oi. They were Neo-Nazis so they fit in with the Repubicans pretty well.

Comment #53: AdamN  on  02/05  at  06:24 PM

I’m going to go out on a limb and say Greg Graffin is punker than you.

Punker? As an adjective?

You’re shitting me, right?

Comment #54: Sarcastro  on  02/05  at  06:25 PM

That, my dear, was what is known as an allusion.

Comment #55: chingona  on  02/05  at  06:30 PM

chingona: I’m going to go out on a limb and say Greg Graffin is punker than you.

The really funny bit is that the essay describes punk as the freedom to question, the freedom from mechanisms of social control. So, Sarcastro declares that he wants to put a wall up around punkness, and declare that you must be this ironic to get in. Oh, hey, look, another mechanism of social control.

So, was the Enlightenment punk or not?

Comment #56: grendelkhan  on  02/05  at  06:37 PM

But then there was that unfortunate bastardization of Punk known as Oi. They were Neo-Nazis so they fit in with the Repubicans pretty well.

Angelic Upstarts, The Oppressed, Sham 69, etc etc. Many of these bands were left-wing. The nazification came after. There are a lot of antifa/left-wing oi bands still active in Europe: Los Fastidios, Non Serviam, Brigada Flores Magon.

What I dislike about oi (and hardcore, for that matter) resides mostly in its tendency towards machismo (at best) and misogyny (at worst).

Comment #57: BlackBloc  on  02/05  at  06:41 PM

tem, that’s the sort of thing that makes Bad Religion make me want to lobotomize myself with a chopstick.  It’s just way too earnest. Punk is at its best when it has a sense of humor.

Comment #58: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  06:47 PM

Why does any conversation about what punk is/isn’t so quickly become a flame war?  Can’t we just make fun of the Republican goobers and their delusions of rebellion?

Comment #59: Dr. Locrian  on  02/05  at  06:48 PM

I’m agreeing with Dr. Locrian.  Whatever punk is or isn’t, it definitely ain’t Republican!

Comment #60: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  06:49 PM

I can only take a little of Greil Marcus before I fall asleep, for some reason.

Comment #61: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  06:50 PM

Fair enough. And humorlessness is one reason why.

Comment #62: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  06:54 PM

Dr. Locrian: Why does any conversation about what punk is/isn’t so quickly become a flame war?  Can’t we just make fun of the Republican goobers and their delusions of rebellion?

Sure, right after we have another one of those totally not flamewarry discussions about whether or not porn and blowjobs can be feminist.

I’m trying to perceive this as a sign of a healthy community, since if we all just nodded in constant agreement, it’d be just another boring echo chamber. And that would not be punk.

Comment #63: grendelkhan  on  02/05  at  06:57 PM

Hmmm… thanks BlackBloc
I admit I am not an expert on Oi and am familiar only with encountering scary Neo-Nazi kids in my HS who listened to that end of Oi spectrum. They were the same kids who promised to beat my “faggot” ass for, um, being a faggot. But I personally I think coming out at 13 years old is pretty fucking PUNK rock. Plus I had purple hair at the time and awesome Jesus and Mary Chain and Joy Division t-shirts!

Comment #64: AdamN  on  02/05  at  06:58 PM

Adam ... not from Allentown, are you?

Comment #65: chingona  on  02/05  at  07:02 PM

So, was the Enlightenment punk or not?

Well, I’m sure the Church would have liked to treat the Enlightenment’s architects like the archaic definition of the word (i.e. something used to start fires)...

Comment #66: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  07:03 PM

My favorite line from the Sadly, No! comments on this:  “Never Mind the Bollocks, Here’s Sarah Palin”.

Comment #67: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  07:05 PM

Okay, Greil Marcus is dull.  Agreed.  Does that mean he’s wrong?

sheepish grin

Comment #68: bekabot  on  02/05  at  07:41 PM

Okay, Greil Marcus is dull.  Agreed.  Does that mean he’s wrong?

He’s never kept my attention long enough for me to tell. wink

Comment #69: damnedyankee  on  02/05  at  07:44 PM

chingona,
No not from Allentown…but I did grow in NJ (I think there is an Allentown in NJ?) I grew up in horrid Republican beach town in the middle of the state…
“In the seaside town
...that they forgot to bomb
Come, come, come - nuclear bomb…”

Comment #70: AdamN  on  02/05  at  07:54 PM

So, Sarcastro declares that he wants to put a wall up around punkness, and declare that you must be this ironic to get in.

Funny, that’s almost what I was mocking. Replace “ironic” with “earnest” (thanks Amanda, I’ve been groping for that word) and you’ve pegged the exact thing.

Comment #71: Sarcastro  on  02/05  at  07:56 PM

I dunno, I have a pet theory that the current organizational spine of the Republican party is populated almost exclusively by former punks of the “I’m fucking the system… by joining the system” variety.

This may also extend to bankers.

Comment #72: brandon  on  02/05  at  07:58 PM

There is an Allentown, NJ. I once got lost and ended up there. Tiny, tiny, tiny town. I was talking about Allentown, PA. There was a guy named Adam. He was pretty good friends with some of my friends. He was the only out kid in the entire Lehigh Valley, had come out in middle school and taken all the beatings that came with that, with purple hair and Joy Division t-shirts. And there were a ton of Nazi skins around. You just seemed to match up really well with him. How funny. Last I had heard of him, though, he had become a born-again Christian and declared himself ex-gay. It was pretty sad. You gave me a brief glimmer of hope that he got over that and came back around.

Comment #73: chingona  on  02/05  at  08:04 PM

No, he’s not wrong.  I never did understand why I can’t stand his stuff, because I can usually handle both dull writing and rock criticism just fine.  It’s just a weird thing with me.

Comment #74: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  08:12 PM

The Communards? Wasn’t that the band Jimmy Somerville was in before Bronski Beat? (I kid, I kid. I DO know about 1968 in France.)

Comment #75: Rikibeth  on  02/05  at  08:13 PM

Sorry chingona to crush your glimmer of hope regarding your friend. Maybe he will come to his senses one day? I can’t imagine ex-gayness having long term sustainability but I guess it depends on how deeply someone may really want to delude themselves for whatever reason. I can’t imagine crawling back into the closet…fuck, I barely remember the closet!

Comment #76: AdamN  on  02/05  at  08:31 PM

Never read Lipstick Traces, but I second the recommendation for England’s Dreaming, by Jon Savage. Hands down, the most thorough and fascinating history of (British) punk I’ve ever read.

Comment #77: mothworm  on  02/05  at  08:32 PM

Maybe he already has come to his senses. I really fell out of touch with that whole group and wouldn’t know. Yes, let’s just tell ourselves that he came to his senses. It’s a happier thought than the alternative.

Comment #78: chingona  on  02/05  at  08:36 PM

Never read Lipstick Traces, but I second the recommendation for England’s Dreaming, by Jon Savage. Hands down, the most thorough and fascinating history of (British) punk I’ve ever read.

I’ll have to read that; it sounds good.

Obviously, it’s better not to bore people if you can avoid it.  All the same, I’m a pragmatist, and I hold that if a man bores you while supporting a position you advocate (perhaps not from the direction you’d prefer) it’s counterproductive to allow the fact that you find him tiresome to prevent you from taking advantage of the fact that he’s on your side.

This country is full of people who (for example) were bored by Al Gore, and who allowed their boredom to direct their votes toward his opponent, to the detriment of us all, darn it. 

Conservatives have gotten overinvested in the idea that rhetoric trumps all else (which, to my mind, explains the greater number of their failures).  Surely lefties can do better.

Comment #79: bekabot  on  02/05  at  08:56 PM

So now they’re no longer content to claim at least part of conservative rock (“She’s having my baby,” as Jon Swift pointed out, since who wouldn’t be honored to have Paul Anka’s baby?). They’ve not only got to get a piece of the rock, they’ve got to own punk. Uh huh. As if the essence of conservative - stodgy. authoritarian, conformist, aristocratic - were NOT mutually exclusive with punk.

Comment #80: daphne  on  02/05  at  10:09 PM

I was in a class with a Republican “punk” once. This woman and her husband decided that they were punk rawk because 1) they had piercings and tattoos and 2) see 1. The husband was even on the cover of some crap republican magazine dedicated to the topic of this alleged republican-isation of punk. She was the biggest moron I’ve met in all my grad school years, and that’s saying something (2 grad schools and many years). Also, she thought Linkin Park was punk! I’ve never laughed in anyone’s face in my whole life, but I came pretty close to it the time she made that pronouncement. But, I guess, it’s tough out there for a Republican punk. What are you supposed to listen to when 90% of the genre is dedicated to mocking and insulting your world-view?

So sad about Lux Interior. It just really hit me when I read the news last night. I can’t think of any other punk artist who was so gloriously, messily alive.

Comment #81: elena  on  02/05  at  10:09 PM

Thirding the recommendation of England’s Dreaming—I got it soon after it came out (just by coincidence, not because I was looking for it) and read it over a weekend.  It has an appendix with mini-discographies of dozens and dozens of punk and punk-related bands, which back in 1991, before the web, was an absolute godsend.  Savage also wrote a pretty good bio of the Kinks.

I also like Greil Marcus’s writing a lot, too.  I suppose he is a bit humorless in Lipstick Traces, but I don’t find the book dry.  And I think he has a good feel for which music and bands are worth listening too. 

I think the complication with the US-UK punk thing is that punk was pretty much an underground, semi-local, sort of arty thing until the folks in the UK blew it up.  So I think a lot of Americans developed their notions of punk from the Sex Pistols or Clash, rather than from the Electric Eels or the Dead Boys or Pere Ubu or whoever, even if the Clash and Sex Pistols would never have existed without their American predecessors.

Comment #82: Pesto  on  02/05  at  10:36 PM

For whatever it’s worth, and certainly a lot of folks here know a lot more about it than I, the first time I heard “Live at Leeds” I became convinced that the first real punk band was The Who.

Ok, ducking and running now…

Comment #83: Chocolate Covered Cotton  on  02/05  at  10:44 PM

Also, pretty surprised that this TenNapel clown didn’t mention “Bodies.” The “punk” republicans love to bring that up, conveniently ignoring that Lydon is on the record about his belief that it’s a woman’s decision.

Comment #84: elena  on  02/05  at  10:56 PM

Please Kill Me is my favorite book on punk.

Comment #85: Amanda Marcotte  on  02/05  at  11:06 PM

You know, the republicans are casting around for an identity right now - problem is, their idea of identity is entirely superficial.

I wonder what else they are going to “try on” before they get it?

Comment #86: Ms Kate  on  02/06  at  12:07 AM

Rob, The Who were most certainly Punk before their time.  The Who Sell Out?  Plastic spoon in my mouth?  Yep.

Comment #87: Ms Kate  on  02/06  at  12:09 AM

MikeEss, Paul;

so, i had this glorious pun about Punk Vandals and Goth/goth.

but…

aw, well. it’s still funny smile

Comment #88: denelian  on  02/06  at  12:43 AM

Republicans are so much more dignified when they try to appeal to the crowd of young people that get turned on by wearing a jacket and tie to class when they’re 18 years old. I mean, really, they should embrace their core competencies: conformity, admiration of the wealthy, and submission to authority figures. There are plenty of people who find that message appealing. No need to try to dress it all up in punk-rock clothing.

Tyro,

You may also want to add aspiring/wannabe authoritarian to that list.  wink

One reason why these jokers cannot be true punks is that unless I am mistaken….the early punk movement shared political similarities/sympathies with various anarchist/proto-anarchist movements. 

As for jacket and tie being a marker for such traits…..I’d agree with it for most part….though that is somewhat confounded by the fact that in some undergrad majors such as business administration at some schools….wearing a jacket and tie is effectively mandatory if one wants to successfully graduate and use the Profs/school network to land their first job. 

In the case of my undergrad, there were plenty of otherwise progressive-left classmates who wore formal clothes nearly everyday because they were conservatory/double degree majors, it was part of the conservatory/classical music culture, and most importantly, even the most politically radical did not want to jeopardize their hard won admission* into one of the nation’s best conservatories or their potential musical careers by pissing off the more conservative Profs or the larger classical music world.  Then again, this is probably one reason why the conservatory students on average tended to be much more apolitical than their college counterparts. 

* My undergrad’s conservatory rejected Yo Yo Ma’s application back in the day….something I bet the conservatory has and will continue to regret for eons….:(

Comment #89: exholt  on  02/06  at  01:05 AM

Republican Punks? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH.  I might die laughing. At most there are niave libertarian punks who accept some of the Republican line.

As for who invented rock and roll: It’s a mix of African and Celtic musical traditions. But I think african-americans were the vanguard in the 1950s. My dad tells me stories about how they fought over control of the radio in shop class. He and a few others prefered KCOH to KILT. He said you’d hear a song on KILT a year after you’d have heard it on KCOH when black folks were singing it. My dad grew up in a town with the slogan “Nigger, don’t let the sun set on you in this town” so it was pretty punk to wanna listen to KCOH, the radio station of Houston’s third ward.

Oddly enough, the county my dad grew up in was about 50% black at the time and had some of those old school “black gentry” types and and even a black judge or two. His town was a segregationist enclave. Rest of the county just barely ever heard of Jim Crow.

Comment #90: Bacopa  on  02/06  at  03:16 AM

The influence of reggae on punk is also not often noted.

The (admittedly less central) relationship to hip-hop is overlooked, too.  Ever heard The Clash’s collaborations with Futura 2000?

Johnny Cash was punk rock.

Ok, sure.  He played shows in jails, did drugs, went to jail himself.  And that picture of Cash giving the finger is definitely punk rock.  He was also a giant leftist who hung out with Dylan, Seeger, Baez, Shel Silverstein.  He was anti-war, and wrote songs sympathizing with leftist student movements.  I really don’t think putting him in the pile helps their case at all.

Comment #91: rufustfyrfly  on  02/06  at  03:28 AM

I actually covered this on the Sadly no thread.

Seriously, have they ever listened to Man In Black? who fucking decided “Country=Republican.” this attempt to coopt someone’s entire career and body of work infuriates me.

Comment #92: karpad  on  02/06  at  04:40 AM

I’m really sad about Lux Interior.  I feel so bad for Ms. Poison Ivy.  I can’t imagine how much it would hurt to lose your life partner and your creative partner at the same time.  Blub.

Comment #93: Rumblelizard  on  02/06  at  08:38 AM

<blcokquote>It was our first smell of anarchy and it scared the establishment.</blockquote>

And who exactly were the establishment at the time? Which party has spent the last 50-odd years harking back to the ‘50s as a halcyon Golden Age?

Somebody should send Jello Biafra round to have a chat with this idiot. Maybe he should block out a couple of weeks in his calendar…

Comment #94: Dunc  on  02/06  at  10:21 AM

Ah cack.

Comment #95: Dunc  on  02/06  at  10:22 AM

You know, the republicans are casting around for an identity right now - problem is, their idea of identity is entirely superficial.

I wonder what else they are going to “try on” before they get it?

I’d love to see them attempt a glittery, ambisexual, glam-rock phase.

Comment #96: mothworm  on  02/06  at  03:02 PM

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43032

That’s Republican punk for you, there.

Comment #97: BrianX  on  02/06  at  03:29 PM

The Republicans are many things - sometimes even good things - but punk is not, and never will be, one of them.
The Democrats are many things - sometimes even bad things - but punk is not, and never will be, one of them.

That said, this “Republican punk” idea did conjure up images of Sarah Palin wearing some of Siouxsie Sioux’s outfits. Rawr.

Comment #98: kolys  on  02/06  at  03:36 PM

Why not just come right out and claim that Pat Boone invented rock with his smashing original compositions “Ain’t That A Shame”

Didn’t Boone want to record it as “Isn’t That A Shame”?

In that case, I think our punk wannabees just got a new Founding Father.

Comment #99: ThresherK  on  02/06  at  07:43 PM

Slightly OT, but listening to “The Big Country”, I have to ask:  Is there anything more to the song than just “f-you, flyover country”?  I realize the song’s a little more genteel than that, but that’s what it seems to reduce to.

I guess what bothers me about it is that Byrne doesn’t seem to give a reason.  It’s not an analysis like “Little Boxes”, it’s just “Not for me.  PS:  Please God get me the hell out of here.”

If Jack McFarland and Karen Walker listened to anything less than 120 bpm that wasn’t a showtune, they’d be all over this song.

Comment #100: NY Expat  on  02/07  at  06:11 AM

Meh. Three chords & an attitude, is all I make of it, mostly. Suppose ideology was grafted onto the form, as George Clinton did with funk, but for most I suspect it ain’t nothing but a party. Still, it’s not Republican, except maybe in the hilarious-ironic sense of the character Sick Puppy in “Girl with Curious Hair.”

Comment #101: wapsie  on  02/08  at  05:28 PM
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