Wait, not only does he need monitoring around women, but he can’t even be by himself?  Is he saying that he knows that he’ll start pleasuring himself the moment he is alone?  Does this man have no self control?

Hard to tell if he means a list of failed preachers or a list of specific variants of “thou shalt nots”, but I don’t think he means a list of every time *he’s* had a bad thought.

Doesn’t matter, really, your observation is still 100% spot-on.  Rick Warren has a serious sexual obsession.  He should seek help, but then that would require admitting that he has a problem, and he doesn’t have a problem.  He has a list.

Lord High Executioner: As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I’ve got a little list — I’ve got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!

Chorus: He’s got ‘em on the list — he’s got ‘em on the list;
And they’ll none of ‘em be missed — they’ll none of ‘em be missed.

This is hardly new.  When the first televangelist scandals began breaking in the late 80s, it came out that Billy Graham had long maintained a policy of never being alone with a younger woman who wasn’t a family member.  Officially the reason was to preempt anyone starting rumors, but the implication was always there that he didn’t trust himself.

Human psychology often seems to cause the people most tempted by a thing to be the most publicly outspoken against it.

He means that if he’s alone, then he’ll be tempted to buy drugs (or go find a prostitute).  Josh Hamilton, the center fielder for the Texas Rangers and a recovering drug addict, does the same thing, only he’s more honest about what’s going on.  (Hamilton is not allowed more than $20 pocket money, even though he made $400k last year).

It makes sense for a public figure of his visibility to avoid the appearance of impropriety—in particular, not being alone with women (though I wonder how his wife feels about that, as his phrasing was overly broad). The list is super creepy if it exists, but I wonder if he’s not just BSing in response to the question.

Although, logically, if he’s not with a woman and not by himself, then he’s with another man.  Or two men.  Or maybe one man and one woman.

This level of mental illness is actually quite common to those who believe in evil as a directed force actively targeting the good—it leads to paranoia and narcissism, but I’m not sure what else we should expect from theocrats. “By their fruits ye shall know them.”

I thought the list was of powerful men who had fallen to temptation. although the 40 years thing makes it sound like some sort of catholic list of mental sins to report to the priest.  Still, its creepy. Who *are* these guys that they think that just being with a woman is enough to make *her* want to sin with *them*? I mean, I don’t have the kind of ego vis a vis men that would make me think that just being alone with a guy would mean he’d come on to me *even if I was attracted to him.*  And, of course, if Warren means that he can’t stop thinking about sex with any woman he sees and only forbidding himself from being alone with him prevents him fantasizing/acting on it, as you say amanda, he has a serious sex addiction which is wholly not normal.

aimai

Rick Warren is a big, fat hypocrite whose commitments to a cause change with the political winds, and his desire to “take his brand global.”

oops! Jesse!

aimai

Rick Warren is such a confusing guy - he really does an excellent job on TV seeming nice and reasonable, then he goes and endorses all sorts of hard right nonsense, THEN he comes back and says it was all untrue.

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, this guys is all PR and nothing more?

It’s lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, the pride of life, and you have to know the antidotes, and you have to set up the parameters that keep you from even being tempted in those areas, which means for instance, I’m never alone, ever, ever alone with a woman, or even my myself when I’m traveling.

He’s never alone with HIMSELF when he’s traveling? What happens when his wife can’t go with him? Does he need an anti-masturbation monitor, possibly one who doubles as a masseuse/pharmacist?

I took it as him saying he’s got a list of preachers who’ve gotten themselves into trouble with moral turpitude of one sort or another.  Which, okay, it’s sort of a ‘remember thou art mortal’ kind of thing.  And, okay, he makes a point of never being alone with a woman; Caesar’s wife must be above suspicion.  But what the hell is the point of never being alone full stop while traveling?  It’s not like having an uncomfortable, weirded-out dude in the room with him even slowed Haggard down when he decided that he needed to whack it.

“Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, this guys is all PR and nothing more?”

...a statement which could be said of any number of fundnut preachers over the last ~200 years.

Elmer Gantry and hucksters of his ilk were not just invented from whole cloth…

“I’ve managed to not cheat, have meth-infused masseuse sex or get underage girls pregnant thus far”

Slacker

This line of reasoning also kinda equates the “sin” of masturbation with cheating and using drugs and gay sex and child molestation (etc, etc, etc). These things are totally not the same. Filing them all under “temptation” is grossly irresponsible.

“Although, logically, if he’s not with a woman and not by himself, then he’s with another man.  Or two men.  Or maybe one man and one woman.”

What two or three men, a woman, a donkey & a midget dressed as a nun do in the privacy of their own church is their business.

List hell.  He ought to have great big pictures of them on his office wall; if the wall is big enough.

You know, I’ve always found that having basic respect for oneself and other people makes avoiding all these “sins” really, really easy. Seriously. Respect for myself, my partner and our relationship is all I’ve ever needed not to cheat. Respect for my body and mind keeps me from sampling substances that could be addictive and destructive. Respect for other people and the greater community keeps me from screwing people over in daily life.

Really, I think all this morality stuff is much easier for atheists because there are good reasons for it rather than just irrational fears of random smitings from Big Guy in the Sky.

Okay, that’s a little….weird.  I could understand saying, as some people have suggested, “I want to avoid rumors, so I’m never alone with a woman while I’m traveling,” although it’s a bit extreme.  But what he says is, you have to know the antidotes, and you have to set up the parameters that keep you from even being tempted in those areas, which means for instance, I’m never alone, ever, ever alone with a woman, or even my myself when I’m traveling.

If those are the parameters he has to set to not be tempted, it must be very difficult for him to just get through the day.  I’m surprised he doesn’t require that women and men worship in separate rooms in his church, so he doesn’t get too distracted while preaching.

“What two or three men, a woman, a donkey & a midget dressed as a nun do in the privacy of their own church is their business.”

...is there some agency where a studly pastor might obtain the services of a midget in a nun’s habit? 

I only ask for purely academic reasons, and certainly not because I would in any way have the remotest personal interest in such a depraved thing…I swear!...

He means that if he’s alone, then he’ll be tempted to buy drugs (or go find a prostitute).

I thought he was just afraid he’d masturbate.

Cause that would be evil.  Nothing funny about that at all.  Not like Seinfeld and David could make a whole 30 min episode about something that evil and have it air on a Big Three network in prime time.

All this means is that Rick Warren is inches away from a huge publicity scandal that would destroy Saddleback.  Literally.  And that his veneer of holiness and goodness is just that, a veneer, and shows that he’s only good out of fear; he’s not actually motivated by a desire to help people or make the world a better place.

“I’ve managed to not cheat, have meth-infused masseuse sex or get underage girls pregnant thus far”

Slacker

One good weekend in Vegas could probably handle those failures.  Possibly in the same 5 minutes.

All this means is that Rick Warren is inches away from a huge publicity scandal that would destroy Saddleback.  Literally.  And that his veneer of holiness and goodness is just that, a veneer, and shows that he’s only good out of fear; he’s not actually motivated by a desire to help people or make the world a better place.

Yep. His tactic is like AA on sterroids—that sin is a foregone conclusion if you give yourself even the slightest opportunity to do so. 

What keeps a person away from “sinning” isn’t creating a bunch of surrogate chastity belts. If you are not the sort of person to do that, then it’s not really an option. Gay sex doesn’t just happen if you hang out with gay people. You have to want to do it. Cheating on your spouse doesn’t happen because you’re not by their side and a member of the opposite sex is available—you have to want to cheat.

And please PLEASE keep him away from ‘ssssSHASHAaah!

“Gay sex doesn’t just happen if you hang out with gay people. You have to want to do it. Cheating on your spouse doesn’t happen because you’re not by their side and a member of the opposite sex is available—you have to want to cheat.”

THIS! THIS! THIS!

Thank you. I’d like to cut & paste this on to every fundie site I can find.

Um.

Eew?

Imagine all the people who are NOT insane, crazed sex maniacs who work with this guy on a frequent (or even INfrequent) basis who now are going to be looking at him like, “What the fuck is this psycho thinking about ME???  Is he in one of his ‘list-writing’ moments?”

And who doesn’t masturbate???  I feel sorry for these people.  Orgasms = fabulous.

I’ve managed to not ... have meth-infused masseuse sex

Well I recommend you try it sometime. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you’re single. Or possibly better yet, if your significant other is the masseuse.

He seems like that particular kind of creep who when they catch themselves giving you the once-over - turn it into a glare!  like it’s YOUR fault that they found you attractive. 
  These guys have a real problem!  I’m not exactly a spring chicken, either. It may well be that any women is considered an evil temptation.  Grosses me right out!

Why isn’t God a good enough chaperon?

Seriously though, if he truly does have such little self-control that he can’t be by himself, at least he’s aware of the problem and doing something about it.

I’m a teacher, and I’m never alone in a closed room with a female student.  That’s just good sense.

“Seriously though, if he truly does have such little self-control that he can’t be by himself, at least he’s aware of the problem and doing something about it.”

This is true.  I mean, I know if I was afflicted with a pathological lack of self-control, my Plan A would definitely be “become pastor of megachurch, work the media as a sort of moral authority, and never be alone with anyone when I travel.”

“I’m a teacher, and I’m never alone in a closed room with a female student.  That’s just good sense.”

Considering you’re probably just as (if not more so) hosed if a male student makes allegations, you may want to consider expanding that policy if you’re going to have it at all.

I think Warren is a ridiculous liar and a hypocrite, but to play devil’s advocate; During the Roman Republic, whenever a Triumph was held, the general in whose honor the triumph was held was required to have an assistant who walked next to him, whispering “remember, you are only a man” (or words to that effect), to remind him not to get all full of himself and freaked out from having the entirety of the Roman state screaming his name. That’s the risk anyone who becomes a public figure faces.

More to the point -  Jesse, I have no doubt you’re a far more upstanding person than this awful man. However, you aren’t a major celebrity. People who reach the pinacles of success that Warren has reached - many politicians, A and B list actors, touring musicians, one out of every 1000 novelists, etc, are actually faced with tremendous opportunity to indulge whatever fantasies they have, or didn’t even realize they have. I guarantee you that you have never experienced that in your life (though in all seriousness, it would be reeeeally cool if you did. I’d be jealous.) Most of us never will.

Don’t forget that people who become tremendously famous typically end up surrounded by sycophants and flatterers and regular folk so dazzled by their fame that they will literally give to the famous person whatever is asked of them. This is true for everyone, even famous preachers (perhaps especially preachers). It takes tremendous personal discipline and willpower to resist the constant offers, and the more frequently such offers occur, the more “normal” they start to seem, which makes resisting them seem less and less neccesary. Hell, I’ve joked more than once that, were I famous,  I’d probably resist the temptation to cheat on my gf the first 49 times NSA threeways were offerred to me by insanely attractive people. But honestly, the 50th time it happened I’d probably lose my ability to resist.

In this POV, Warren isn’t really letting his freak flag fly, he’s acknowledging, in his cripplingly-neurotic-about-sex Christian way, the simple fact that he’s fucking famous as shit, and is seen by thousands upon thousands as a Very Special Person. People who tell him this every day. I hate the man, I find his moral values to be disgusting, I am disturbed by his casual willingness to lie, and I think, like all conservative Christians, that he’s a disgusting Bigot. I also think people like him harm our nation by making sexual loathing normal and desireable. But I have to admit I find him slightly more sympathetic that he’s at least willing to admit that these temptations are real, and has taken steps to counteract them.

It’s galling, of course, because for us liberals, we don’t see sex as inherently bad. If Rick Warren were single, I would think it an inherent good that he fuck whomever he wants, whenever he wants. My problem with a lot of the behavior I’ve described has to do with lying, cheating, treating underlings and subordinates like property, being a user, etc etc. Warren’s problem appears to be that sex is bad. He’s a freak, not because he’s acknowledging the truth about temptation but because he’s yet another perverse Christian devoted to making people hate their bodies and pleasure.

What’s funny is most people will relate to what he said in normal people terms.  And in normal people terms, “I can’t stop thinking about fucking every woman that walks across my path” is a direct insult to your significant other, because you’re saying that she just isn’t doing it for you.  Of course, in famous people terms, you’re right, it mostly means you’re just being subject to more temptation than most of us could imagine.

I hate not using a direct quote, but this ties in very well with a comment I heard Rick Warren make on NPR well before the Obama inauguration press frenzy.

It went something to the effect that he would like to jump in the sack with every pretty woman he meets but he doesn’t. Therefore, teh gays (and other deviants) should follow his pristine example and just refrain from naughty fucking.

This set my teeth on edge when I heard it. First off, the reduction of a part of someone’s identity to just who they fuck is always problematic. In addition, I think it’s disingenuous of him to imply, even briefly, that it is a problem of willpower and choice when I believe his objections to gay rights are far more complex.

I’ll keep looking for it and provide the link when I find it.

It helps if you know that god will forgive you for it.

I’m never alone, ever, ever alone with a woman, or even my myself when I’m traveling.

Then who is he alone with?

“It went something to the effect that he would like to jump in the sack with every pretty woman he meets but he doesn’t. Therefore, teh gays (and other deviants) should follow his pristine example and just refrain from naughty fucking.”

See, that is the sort of thing that makes me think the speaker is directly insulting his significant other, if they’re married.  “Well, I manage to refrain from having hot, hot sex with inappropriate partners when all I’ve got at home is someone I’m desperately unattracted to, so you should be able to swing it, too.  Now go forth and get straight-married, gay folk!” The alternate reading—that it’s encouraging celibacy—only really works if the speaker is themselves committed to lifelong celibacy.

There’s two things that over time, I’ve come to realize about people with the fundamentalist sort of mindset, whether it applies specifically to religion, or to politics, or even to things like housekeeping or art criticism.

The first is the unshakeable belief that there is exactly one right way. One right way to do whatever it is, one right way to be whoever it is, etc. There is NO variation. Any variation in practice is by definition a deviation from the ideal, which is by definition a deviation from the acceptable.

It’s why there is so often such an unfathomable lack of logic to their arguments- gay sex is wrong because if we were all gay there would be no next generation. Huh? But it makes sense (?!?) if you realize that they aren’t refuting AN argument, they are refuting an attempt to change the One Right Way. Since there is only one right way, allowing gay sex inherently means outlawing straight sex.

The other thing I’ve come to understand is that they really, really do think that all people, including themselves are inherently horrible. Given half a chance, every person will automatically do something evil. Nobody can be trusted. The only thing that keeps them, and everyone else, from descending into social and moral chaos is rigid rules, and because each individual is untrustworthy and evil, moral policing from everyone else. Shunning. Snooping. Gossiping. Judging.

I assume that Warren just takes for granted that he’s one of those awful untrustworthy sorts. Probably never gave the underlying assumption much thought.

Of course, in this particular case, I’m willing to agree with him. In the general case, not so much. Most people are pretty decent most of the time.

If you think about it, it’s really, really sad that this guy is so afraid of his own impulses. 

On the other hand, it’s also really, really twisted that he sets himself up as a moral authority while at the same time believing that he lacks any capacity for self-restraint.

And in normal people terms, “I can’t stop thinking about fucking every woman that walks across my path” is a direct insult to your significant other, because you’re saying that she just isn’t doing it for you.

“Well, I manage to refrain from having hot, hot sex with inappropriate partners when all I’ve got at home is someone I’m desperately unattracted to, so you should be able to swing it, too.  Now go forth and get straight-married, gay folk!”

I’m not comfortable with this suggestion that people are tempted to cheat on their spouse because they are unattracted to their spouse.  No matter how gorgeous their spouse is, most people will still find other attractive, and even be tempted.  I know it wasn’t your intention, but it almost sounds like blaming the someone for their spouse’s infidelity.  I think that we should be more sensitive about this, because it is common for people who have been cheated on to think that it’s their fault for not being good enough.  I’ve known two very close people (a friend and my mother) who had serious self-esteem issues because their partner cheated and they felt like it was their own fault.

The first is the unshakeable belief that there is exactly one right way. One right way to do whatever it is, one right way to be whoever it is, etc. There is NO variation. Any variation in practice is by definition a deviation from the ideal, which is by definition a deviation from the acceptable.

I completely agree with this.  It’s very common for people to think that one thing is right in all circumstances.  The best way to refute this is to point out that people have different careers.  If every single person were a surgeon, we’d have no teachers, lawyers, police officers, construction workers, etc.  But being a physician certainly isn’t morally wrong.  It’s the same thing with homosexuality.  If everyone were homosexual and fertility treatment didn’t exist and lesbians and gay men were unwilling to do what they need to do to get a child, people would go extinct.  But in a society where some people are gay and some are straight, there’s not problem.  We’re not facing an underpopulation crises.

Remember Brownback agonizing over the dangers of porn being available in hotel/motell rooms? IIRC he was talking about avoiding being alone in the room

He’s clearly not talking about just avoiding the appearance of impropriety.  He said: “you have to set up the parameters that keep you from even being tempted in those areas, which means for instance, I’m never alone, ever, ever alone with a woman, or even my myself when I’m traveling.”  His never being alone with a woman (or himself!) is a parameter that keeps him from being tempted.  I will never cease to be amazed by religious people who think atheists have no moral code, but whose moral code is so obviously screwed up that they have to go to great lengths to “avoid temptation.”  If my husband (not that I’m married or want to be) said that the way he keeps himself from cheating on me is to make sure he’s never alone with a woman, I would be VERY concerned about the stability of my marriage.

Being a Babylon 5 fan, hearing the phrase ‘he is never alone’ in regards to a minister makes me laugh.

I love the fact that he can’t be alone with himself either!  I guess he is afraid he might give in and touch himself!  Eternal hellfire!

To be honest though- I would have thought that even Rick Warren would have NO trouble keeping his hands off of Rick Warren.  I know it wouldn’t be a problem for me!

Odd travel habit?

How about FREAKISH behavior?

Am I the only guy on the planet that isn’t interested in cheating on his wife?  I’ll fully admit to enjoying the perkish demeanor of an attractive woman, but have no trouble sorting out the difference between appropriate and inappropriate flirtage.

And I consider myself an atheist.  My soul would not rot in hell if I started screwing around on my wife,  although my testicles might end up as cufflinks for her next husband….

Another excellent reason to embrace atheism and fidelity:  the paperwork is easier AND you get to keep your balls.

Enjoy.

Filing them all under “temptation” is grossly irresponsible.

not to mention, just gross.

Then who is he alone with?

God and his conscience.

Stop laughing.

“I’m not comfortable with this suggestion that people are tempted to cheat on their spouse because they are unattracted to their spouse.  No matter how gorgeous their spouse is, most people will still find other attractive, and even be tempted.  I know it wasn’t your intention, but it almost sounds like blaming the someone for their spouse’s infidelity.”

Where does any of that almost sound like “If some idiot straight-marries because he is absolutely convinced that all he needs to do is take a leap of faith in order for Jesus to cure him of his homo tendencies, it’s the fault of the poor woman he later gay-cheats-on for just not being pretty enough.”?

I wonder if my comment went to moderation because it was mostly ALL CAPS? Hm.

logically, if he’s not with a woman and not by himself, then he’s with another man.  Or two men.  Or maybe one man and one woman.

OMG you’re right!

Rick Warren engages in gay sexual escapades, threesomes, and orgies! He admitted it himself! On TV! Alert the media! Americans deserve to know the truth!1!!

(Heh. Time for us to start playing by their rules.)

Rick Warren is only one step away from demanding that all women cover themselves from head to foot at all times so he isn’t tempted.

“Rick Warren is only one step away from demanding that all women cover themselves from head to foot at all times so he isn’t tempted.”

I would happily settle for a demand for all women to avoid being in the presence of Rick Warren. All men, too. For safety’s sake, let’s keep him off TV.