Maybe people want to see Spiderman because of all the injuries?  I can see how the prospect of seeing something really disastrous and exciting might be a draw for some.

I think the sexy virgin thing and the horrible food tantrums make for an interesting contrast, and further reinforce the impossible expectations placed on women.  You should be pure, but look hot.  You should also be thin, but not worried about eating healthy.  Eat mac and cheese, go to the Olive Garden, but don’t you dare ever get fat (isn’t a lot of the criticism of Michelle Obama that she’s hypocritical for “policing” other people’s food when she “looks like that”?)

“Right-Wing Media Freaked Out Over Red Lobster, Olive Garden Decision To Shrink Portion Sizes.”

Or they could be reacting to customer demands.  Like what happens in that free market thing they’re supposedly so fond of. Seriously, take out the part about reduced sodium and this sounds like a perfectly normal way to increase profit. (And reduce waste…oh, right, that’s also a Librul Thing so it must be Bad. Waste away!)

Like burgundy I think Spiderman did so well because there’s really no chance that they’ll catapult the lead of Mama Mia into the cheap seats, with Spiderman it was a legitimate possibility.  People just like watching (metaphorical) train wrecks.  Plus it got media attention on a level no other musical could match.

Obama’s instincts are rule-bound and uptight. Remember the the to-do when he said we don’t want to ‘blow our college tuition on a weekend in Vegas’ - this was early on - like late 2009 - and then he had to apologize to the mayor of Las Vegas?

Michelle has actually been focused on this issue of nutrition and obesity. It’s funny that an issue that should be innocuous can even have an antithesis that springs up from the FOX’s ID.

Funny FOX wouldn’t embrace charging more for less food - that’s called ‘creating wealth’...right?

In the end, I think this is all a loser for FOX, because in our culture, which, despite a lot of teasing and titilation, is hyper puritan, especially toward the top end (see Obama family).

Michelle’s diet reform drive is actually ‘paternal’ in this way, and I think will ultimately win the day. 

One more thing… Something I keep expecting to happen on the cable news but, the other shoe refuses to drop so…

TODAY MARKS THE DAY I BEGIN ASKING THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION:

How long are we going to go in this Presidential election until we FINALLY are informed of that old truism about how voters always lean Democratic when the issue is the economy and Repub when the big issue is ‘foreign policy’ (AKA freedom bombing)?

Since Obama got Osama (resulting in a lot of dead air silence from hawks) - and since all the GOP circus acts have been talking about tax codes (‘make ‘em SUPER regressive!’) and abolishing child labor laws, when can I look forward to hearing that economy talk is a big fat LOSER for them! It’s been the CW for 40 years, man! When?

Quando Quando Quando?

C’mon MSM, you do it every election year. Why not this year, guys?

I’ll admit that Spider-Man was on the list of shows I recommended when my brother was in NYC recently (although The Book of Mormon was ranked much higher); my reasoning was that it can’t tour in anything close to its current production scale.  In a decent-sized city, it’s easy to see respectable local productions or tours of Wicked or Chicago or Anything Goes, but given that spectacle’s all that Spider-Man has going for it, Broadway’s the place to see that.  Not my thing, but there’s at least a logic to seeing it as a tourist.

But yeah, apparently the right is clinging to lousy health along with religion and guns—it’s the Confederatization of the GOP, where shitty quality of life and oppressive social culture is recast as virtue instead of loserdom.  And I say that as someone who’s let her weight go too far beyond its relatively-slender setpoint of early adulthood.

So essentually Spider-Man is a conservative-safe Cirque de Soleil?

Fine by me.  Keeps the obnoxious-talks-through-the-show conservatives out of my favorite shows.

sex object virgins: slender, beautiful, preferably buxom, apparently super-tan, and compliant.

Don’t forget stupid and “girly,” so you can be annoyed by her and mock her to your friends, feel superior to her, and not feel bad about hitting her a little too hard when she asks you to help her do the dishes. But not too stupid, because that would be too annoying to be fun. Maybe a notch or two below you in intelligence. No, then it’s debatable she would be able to tie her shoes. Let’s make it three-quarters of a notch.

Spider-Man is based on a mainstream comic book character.  That’s really all you need. 

It’s not highbrow, it isn’t girly, it probably won’t make anyone cry, no reflection on one’s life or values will be required beyond that of a third-grade morality tale.  There are stunts.  Also it is the most expensive Broadway production ever so it must be good.

These are the same people who cast Christians as an oppressed minority in the U.S.  Actually, as an oppressed majority.  The social part of conservatism simply appeals to victimhood.  There’s always some, usually unaccountable, elitist power telling them what to do, what to say and, ultimately, what to think.  This is just how they rally enthusiasm for battle.  They just hate the notion that anyone might tell them what to do, though they have a lot of, ahem, behavioral requests for everybody else.

This is what gets to me about “breastaurants”—restaurant chains whose main selling point are their sexy waitresses in skimpy costumes. Not just that they create jobs for no one who isn’t young, slender, buxom, perma-tanned and compliant. But they’re the perfect illustration of this impossible standard, come to think of it: like a lot of people in the customer service business, they’re in the business of selling a lifestyle. And this is one where you’re surrounded by greasy, unhealthy food and are still expected to look hot, and where cheerful compliance is also a major component of hotness.
Surprise surprise, these restaurants are most popular in the South, particularly in Texas.

I agree with @oldfeminist #8, you are reaching, I don’t think it is reactionary, this is what people like. Familiarity, that doesn’t make you think. Just browse some terrible movies on Rotten Tomatoes, to start I give you Catwoman, 34% of the public gave it a positive rating, that is 1 in 3 people liked it!

These are the same people who cast Christians as an oppressed minority in the U.S.  Actually, as an oppressed majority.

Well, self-righteous wingnut asshole Christians actually are somewhat of a minority, which they’re well aware of and is one major reason this country is going to hell in a handbasket. And if “oppressed” means “actively disliked to merely tolerated,” they’re right about that too.

like a lot of people in the customer service business, they’re in the business of selling a lifestyle. And this is one where you’re surrounded by greasy, unhealthy food and are still expected to look hot, and where cheerful compliance is also a major component of hotness.

I wouldn’t phrase the fantasy they’re selling exactly like that. That puts too much weight on the subjective experience of the waitress, and we all know women don’t have subjective experiences beyond “ooh, shiny new purse.” I’d put it more like “hot chicks bring you beer and greasy food and pretend to laugh at your jokes, and they have to do what you say and can’t talk back,” which is something the average Hooters patron will never get his fill of.

I think the urge to see Spider-Man is rooted in the shameful, but all-too-human desire to watch a fiasco.  At least, that would be my only impetus for going, if I did. I don’t like musicals, so a pretty good musical may not provide more entertainment than one that is over-the-top bad. That said, I’d still rather see the creme-de-la-creme: i.e. The Book of Mormon or Spamalot, than a show where someone runs a high risk of breaking their back. Of course, if you are trying to buy tickets at the last minute, you can’t get tickets to those shows. What’s left are total no-name shows that might be good, and middling crowd-pleasers that are really not very good at all.

I also think others have nailed it: it’s not only a popular comic book, the franchise has now been made into several blockbusters, so everyone is familiar with it. Lots of people would rather see a mediocre musical that caters to their warm fuzzy nostalgia for a certain cultural icon, than a mediocre musical that has completely new characters.

Broadway is awash in known quantities to appeal to incurious tourists, revising all sorts of classic movies and TV shows to reel them in, plus Mamma Mia

I’m amazed at how true this is.  Maybe Broadway was never especially a challenging artistic force, but I feel like there was at least a time when composers were creating truly original works that became hugely successful.  (Obviously there is still creativity and originality today, but the big-money producers don’t seem to want to invest in them.)

Looking at this list of 29 shows currently playing, I see six adapted from movies, three jukeboxes (i.e. no original music), and ten revivals.  The movie adaptation thing still kind of fascinates me—50 years ago, the apotheosis of a musical was to turn it into a Hollywood film, but now it seems to run in the other direction.

You’d think a bunch of authoritarians would at least prefer the image of well-behaved children who politely eat what’s served, but their hatred of the Obamas runs so deep that they are willing to cast themselves in the role of the pointlessly petulant child.

This reminds me of the Animal Farm principle, which was expressed well by Rom on Deep Space Nine:

You don’t understand. Ferengi workers don’t want to stop the exploitation. We want to find a way to become the exploiters.

Authoritarian Republicans don’t want to play the role of parent, they want to play king of the hill. They don’t want to grow out of being spoiled children, they just want to be the toughest, meanest spoiled child who always gets his way.

Not to get all ‘anectdata’, but I know plenty of local liberal NY’ers who went to see Spiderman first chance they got just for the pure spectacular train-wreck schlockiness potential of the whole thing.

You would think they would be saying “back in my day we ate our vegetables and we liked it!”

“back in my day we ate our vegetables and we liked it!”

Sure, when they’re talking about actual children. Middle-aged man-children ate their vegetables when they were little, so now they’re done paying their dues. They’ll make damn sure the kids do it, but they personally have earned the right to eat their mac and cheese and ice cream.

I also find it highly amusing that conservatives are willing to cast themselves as petulant, whiny children here. Aren’t they the same people who always insist that liberals are silly, overemotional children who don’t know the way life works, and who need a conservative Strong Father™ to steer them straight?
Ah, well… I’m starting to think that the willingness to abandon principle for the sake of advancing one’s own narrative is the definition of today’s right wing.

One other thing about “known quantities” on Broadway: it’s become quite common to cast well-known film and television celebrities in stage roles. Daniel Radcliffe, Brooke Shields, Kelsey Grammer, John Larroquette, Nathan Lane, Matthew Broderick, Ralph Macchio, on and on.  Nothing against those performers—most of them get very good reviews. But it’s just one more indication that Broadway has ceded its relevance; they don’t make stars anymore, they just hire them.

@11 Benjaminsa: I always felt sad about that Catwoman movie. Because Halle Berry really worked hard for that role. She worked out so as to get significant visible muscles; which you know is pretty difficult for a woman who doesn’t want to go the steroid route. She also injured herself during filming (though it wasn’t as serious as her breaking her arm during the filming of Gothika); and you just get this feeling that someone who worked that hard and suffered that much for their role ought to have been rewarded for it.

“They’ll make damned sure the kids do it”
Good point.  I’m not thinking like a right winger.  They’re upset that Michelle is invading their territory, making kids do things they don’t want to do is a satisfying and pleasurable act for authoritarians.  It would be super awesome if she trolled them with a campaign urging parents to spank their kids.

@19: they’re not even doing indulgence right. Not in the sense of getting as much pleasure out of eating as possible. Plenty of unhealthy food tastes terrible. Plenty of healthy food tastes delicious. But then again, we’re talking about a population that distrusts pleasure in general.

Righties love to present themselves as fun, free people who know how to lighten up (unlike those dogmatic, uptight liberals) but that belies the sour, calculating approach they bring to just about everything pleasurable.

If it weren’t for the advances in medical technology capable of maintaining a heartbeat and minimal brain-function indefinitely, I would see the contrarian urge on the right to indulge in unhealthiness JUST BECAUSE some egg-head scientist and that evil black lady (you know, she worked at a hospital…something, something, liberal conspiracy) recommend otherwise as a very positive development.  It’s a Darwinian thinning of the herd: if you’re so attached to your ideology that you’re willing to endanger your health and the health of your children, have at it.

Unfortunately we’re just going to end up with a bunch of bags of flesh hooked up to machines using the brief moments between technology-driving inhalations to bitch about Mexicans.

So eating maccaroni and cheese is the culinary-political equivalent of hoggling.

I also find it highly amusing that conservatives are willing to cast themselves as petulant, whiny children here. Aren’t they the same people who always insist that liberals are silly, overemotional children who don’t know the way life works, and who need a conservative Strong Father™ to steer them straight?

Always remember that if it weren’t for projection, wingnuts would have practically nothing to say at all.

love the reasoning, but have to agree that spiderman probably does well because it’s spiderman, the same way that batman would be a blockbuster, no matter how awful.

“I’m starting to think that the willingness to abandon principle for the sake of advancing one’s own narrative is the definition of today’s right wing.”

It’s all about winning, or at least the perception of being on the winning team. 

When Republicans win, the 1% actually “wins”, and their Reichwing authoritarian admirers among the 99% “win” by proxy.  (Of course, the 1% wins regardless of which party is actually in power — heads they win, tails we lose…)

Reichwing attraction to unhealthyness (which really is only true among the lower classes — the 1% will do anything to prolong their own lives), bad social policy, and self-defeating (for the 99%) economic policy only makes sense when you realize that poltics for them is nothing more than a sports competition with real consequences.  It’s like a giant football game, but when your team wins the head coach gets to pick Supreme Court justices, set tax rates, and choose who gets bombed.  And as long as liberals are upset it’s all good.  Hoo rah, bitches!!!...

“Like burgundy I think Spiderman did so well because there’s really no chance that they’ll catapult the lead of Mama Mia into the cheap seats”

I’ll readily admit that the evolution of my feelings wrt Spiderman: The Musical went something like this:

“Blockbuster movie franchise Spider-Man is being adapted into a musical!”: That sounds terrible.

“The Spider-Man musical is over budget and having production problems!”: I knew it was going to be terrible.

“They’ve accidentally put the lead of Spider-Man: The Musical through a wall!”: Sucks to be that guy, but I guess it is pretty hard to find a singer-actor-acrobat who’s got a lot of wire-work experience.  Accidents are bound to happen during rehearsals.

“After beefing up safety measures and re-choreographing certain scenes, Spider-Man: The Musical has flung the injured lead’s understudy into a tree in New Jersey!”: ...New Jersey?  Okay, now I kind of want to see this thing.  How did they even do that?

“After reviewing and implementing even more safety measures, re-rechoreographing certain scenes, hiring seasoned wire-work experts to do certain stunts instead of regular cast, and propitiating local theater deities, Spider-Man: The Musical has accidentally caused an international incident by pelting Montreal with half their principals!”: I don’t care how stupid this thing is, if I ever make it to NYC, I am seeing this musical.

#22; Halle Berry showed up to accept her Worst Actress Razzie award for Catwoman in person.  It was a thing of rare beauty.  She showed up on stage with her Oscar for Monster’s Ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-7s_yeQuDg&feature=fvwrel

Cris @21:  Lane and Broderick were Broadway stars before they became film stars.  Not sure about Grammer and Larroquette, but given their age and voices it would’t surprise me if they had a plethora of theater experience before they “made it” on TV.

My vantage point is 800 miles away in Chicago, but it seems like there’s still a lot of fresh stage talent:  Book of Mormon’s leads are getting a lot of attention; the tryout of The Addams Family had a couple of great performances by Jackie Hoffman and Kevin Chamberlain (Grandma and Uncle Fester, respectively); I will gladly pay to see Roger Bart perform in anything; and last I checked, Kristen Chenoweth was a major Broadway (not Hollywood) star that debuted within the era of the Special Guest Star.

It’s the list of shows that’s damning:  I think I could identify all but 3 to 5 as revivals/adaptations.  But that’s what Broadway is now, so I find the original conceit of this post a little odd:  If a family is going to see a Broadway show, how much “better” can they really do than Spider-Man or Mamma Mia, if your standard is to see something that’s not warmed over and unchallenging?  Book of Mormon is sold out for a year, right?  (Though even there, based on Avenue Q, I think “upholding the status quo’s prejudices” has been rebranded as “challenging”).  I mean, you’re surprised about Spider Man when Addams Family survived for over a year and a half?  (Hoffman/Chamberlain: Great; Lane/Huston: Meh; the rest: Gah!)

Sorry, but I have middlebrow friends who went to Spider-Man and liked it.  People like stories, and they like spectacle.  Spider-Man has a story in it, and it has a spectacle.

I agree with @oldfeminist #8, you are reaching, I don’t think it is reactionary, this is what people like. Familiarity, that doesn’t make you think. Just browse some terrible movies on Rotten Tomatoes, to start I give you Catwoman, 34% of the public gave it a positive rating, that is 1 in 3 people liked it!
Comment #11: benjaminsa on 12/27 at 12:25 PM

That’s odd, I didn’t think of my comment as contradicting what Amanda said. 

When people go to New York to see a Broadway play, you’d think maybe they’d choose something different from what they can get at home.  But these folks don’t.  They get the same old mac and cheese with more mac and way, way more cheese.

Spiderman has pretty awesome looking costumes, bright colors and whatnot.  That’s prolly what they’re going to see.  It seems approachable to them, so they watch it.

Thirty-five comments and nobody’s explicitly mentioned Glenn Beck’s having endorsed the show? Maybe it was in a link that I neglected to click upon.

Broadway shows are quite expensive, and you have to get tickets way ahead of time. If you’re going to see a show on Broadway, it means you’re going to get tickets to something that you KNOW you’re going to enjoy and something whose production values will be far beyond anything you would see in your home town. That it going to bias visitors in favor of huge spectacles with familiar stories and music.

Similarly, I’ll go see bands I’ve never heard of at my local venue for $10, but I’m only going to buy the $100 concert tickets for performers whose work I’m intimately familiar with and have been a longtime fan of.

@Josh. Yeah, that doofus Glenn Beck has been pushing this show since rehearsals. Beck said it was like a playbook for how he was going to fight evil. No really, he said that. Nothing like a musical to get your megalomania on.

Its not the First Lady weighing in on nutrition.  It’s government involvement in something that is none of its business.  It manifests itself in the usual way by not accomplishing its stated goals (we had the best of intentions) and creating waste.  For example the LA unified school district is reporting massive amounts of food being thrown away daily because the children simply will not eat the mandated meals being served to them. (Just one example of gov. overreach and the resulting chaos)  This is what really bothers conservatives not your silly theory that has them worrying about what Michelle Obama has to say on the matter.  But being concerned with gov. overreach or wasteful social engineering doesn’t allow you to use personal attacks on those who hold opposing views to your own.  The tolerant liberal is a myth, they are always the first to smear opponents of their failed social programs with personal attacks.  The pathetic screed above is but another exaample of this.

Broadway shows are quite expensive, and you have to get tickets way ahead of time. If you’re going to see a show on Broadway, it means you’re going to get tickets to something that you KNOW you’re going to enjoy and something whose production values will be far beyond anything you would see in your home town.

When we were in NYC in 1971, we picked a musical starring Danny Kaye, the musical itself was quite forgettable but we made a choice based on what was available at the time, same as now.

Don’t be silly—conservatives want the government to tell me who I can marry, how I am allowed to have sex, and how many children I have. 

Conservatives don’t care about government “overreach.”  They care about domination and hurting people.

The whole “the government wants to tell you what to eat” meme is essentially projection.  If anybody is telling you what to eat, it’s the food industry that the conservatives defend when they make unhealthy food.  That’s why when Red Lobster and Olive Garden voluntarily made their food healthier, it was turned into “the government pressured them.”  This also shows that the “free market” is a myth also with conservatives, a business isn’t allowed to make their food healthier, it’s fattening or nothing.

If the concern is government overreach, then why get upset when a private entity makes its own decisions about how it sells its product?

They just hate the notion that anyone might tell them what to do, though they have a lot of, ahem, behavioral requests for everybody else.

well yes, in an authoritarian mind, that’s how you establish your value: the fewer orders you get and the more orders you give, the higher you are in the pecking order, and thus the higher your social value. That’s why they are so scared of equal rights: it diminishes the ways in which they can tell people what to do, but increases the ways in which other people can tell them what to do (example: in some states, they no longer can tell gay people they can’t marry; conversely, the government can tell them that they have to provide a service to gay people (marry them, for example) even if they don’t want to). Thus, in their minds, equality diminishes their own social value.

It’s government involvement in something that is none of its business.

Yes, what possible interest could a government have in health care costs?  It’s not like our tax dollars go to the purchase of scooters that help old obese racists wheel around Wal-Mart and complain about the accent of the cashier.

Conservatives have no problem with people telling them what to do.  It just needs to be the _right people_ doing the telling.  If a religious Republican tells you, obedience granted.  If a traitorous liberal elite tells you, they’re overreaching fascists.

    Attn Lucy Montrose at 24: This is actually why I do not find the argument about conservatives basing their beliefs and actions on what makes people mad convincing. Pleasure and indulgence are inherently subjective things. Lets take dancing. Most people like dancing but for many people dancing means moving somewhat in rhythym to the music free-styling. I like dancing but I spend a lot of my time learning how to actually dance with another human and do it well. When I see people free-style I can tell that they are enjoying themselves but I don’t like it because to me its not nearly as fun as doing an actual partner dance like the hustle or the tango. I am I snob for prefering actual partner dancing to free style dancing or are the other people not dancing right but refusing to learn how to partner dances?

  The same goes for nearly all other forms of pleasure or indulgence. Several other posters have posted alternative and equally plausible theories on why people might see and like Spider-Man: The Musical that are unrelated to making liberals mad. They might like watching train-wrecks or the might like spectagles or familiar unchallenging stories. People find different things pleasurable and its usually not a good idea to make snide comments about it. The reason why rich conservatives engage in this sort of populist conservativism, even when many of them personally prefer high culture and gourmet food, is that a lot of people that would benefit from economic leftism aren’t really that into high culture. By portraying liberals and leftists as beacons of high culture, rich conservatives are able to to alienate many working class people from us. Its a strategy thats been working like a charm in many different countries since the 19th century. We are still falling into the trap very easily and repeatedly.

When people go to New York to see a Broadway play, you’d think maybe they’d choose something different from what they can get at home.  But these folks don’t.  They get the same old mac and cheese with more mac and way, way more cheese.

Why the fucken fucke do you think there’s a goddamn motherfucken Olive Garden smack dab in the middle of motherfucken Times Square, with *dozens* of decent-to-excellent real Italian restaurants within a two goddamn motherfucken block radius?

“back in my day we ate our vegetables and we liked it!”

Sure, when they’re talking about actual children. Middle-aged man-children ate their vegetables when they were little, so now they’re done paying their dues. They’ll make damn sure the kids do it, but they personally have earned the right to eat their mac and cheese and ice cream.

I’m seeing a repetitive theme in various sorts of inequity—-this concept of people having less power earlier and more power later. Thus they can point to the progression and say “see, it’s fair,” while gaining a population to have privilege over, while conveniently only some of the oppressed ever make it to oppressor status, and once they have done so, they have that exact mentality of they paid their dues and now they deserve their reward, and instituting a program of equality would be SO UNFAIR because it would cheat them out of their hard-earned privilege and let the current load of oppressed people get out of what they had to go through.

It’s creepy as hell for someone to demand that since they “paid their dues” of being good under oppression, nothing will satisfy them except the continued oppression of others, but there’s something about the framing, a sunk cost fallacy or the identifying with the privileged elite they claim to have paid their way into, that makes that the preferred modus operandi for way too many people.

Why the fucken fucke do you think there’s a goddamn motherfucken Olive Garden smack dab in the middle of motherfucken Times Square, with *dozens* of decent-to-excellent real Italian restaurants within a two goddamn motherfucken block radius?

One of my art professors said whenever he takes the art league trip to New York City, he always has to deal with a few students who get to Chinatown and want to eat at Subway. I had no idea it was possible to get that much facepalm into the human voice.

  PhysioProf: Actually this is a legitimate complaint. Sit down chain restaurants like the Olive Garden, TGIF, and Red Lobster are my least favorite dining experience. Fast food places like McDonalds do not make any pretensions towards even mimicking even middle-brow cuisine, so I don’t find them offensive. They also serve a useful purpose when I’m in an airport, hungry, and need to eat something fast. Places like the Olive Garden just suck and the only legitimate reason to eat at a place like that is because you have to for some social obligation. This is especially true in New York when you have plenty of legitimate low to high brow restaurants to choose from, some of which are very cheap. The best cheap Chinese food in the US is available in New York. Same goes for Italian or practically anything else.

<blockauote>You’d think a bunch of authoritarians would at least prefer the image of well-behaved children who politely eat what’s served, but their hatred of the Obamas runs so deep that they are willing to cast themselves in the role of the pointlessly petulant child.</blockquote>
Except that no. The key to authoritarianism is that it IS a double standard. That what is considered acceptable behavior from someone depends entirely on their role within the hierarchy. Petulant behavior in children isn’t bad because it’s petulant behavior, it’s bad because they’re children and they shouldn’t bother people higher than them in the hierarchy (i.e. everyone). The same behavior in a white adult male authoritarian towards Michelle Obama is perfectly appropriate, as they consider themselves higher in the hierarchy than she is, and she’s making it worse by threatening that superiority (what with being the First Lady and all).

It manifests itself in the usual way by not accomplishing its stated goals (we had the best of intentions) and creating waste.  For example the LA unified school district is reporting massive amounts of food being thrown away daily because the children simply will not eat the mandated meals being served to them. (Just one example of gov. overreach and the resulting chaos)  This is what really bothers conservatives not your silly theory that has them worrying about what Michelle Obama has to say on the matter.

Because, you know, Amanda cited several examples of conservatives worrrying about Michelle Obama, but according to Knute without a Helmet, it’s just a theory.

In a blog post, Malkin claimed that Darden was “strong-armed” into “re-designing meals” by Michelle Obama, while the Drudge Report linked to the story with a picture of Michelle Obama and the words, “Adult Supervision for fries.”

But, according to Knute, it’s just a theory.

This is your brain on Fox News.

Any questions?

Places like Olive Garden do serve a purpose—when you’re traveling somewhere, it’s a known quantity.  There are no surprises.  This works for picky people/kids, but it’s also good for anyone with food allergies.  Large chain restaurants are getting better and better at identifying allergens and making efforts to have food items that everyone can eat.  With smaller restaurants—especially ethnic restaurants—you’re never sure if you’ll be able to effectively communicate the nature of the allergy or any special instructions.  I find that even native speakers of English have trouble understanding these things.  So it’s nice to go somewhere like Olive Garden and say, “I need an allergen menu,” and have all the options laid out there for you.  I’m still not a fan of eating out because it’s putting my health in someone’s hands, but it sure beats drinking water while you watch everyone else eat and then gnawing on a Kind bar later. 

I saw a Spiderman performance on Letterman a while back.  It was cheesy, but kind of in a “Tim Burton Batman” sort of way.  If all the shows I wanted to see were sold out, I would probably go see Spiderman rather than take a chance on something I’d never heard of.  I’m not into spending that kind of money on something completely unknown.

So eating maccaroni and cheese is the culinary-political equivalent of hoggling.

HA! That was great; thanks for that link.

they paid their dues and now they deserve their reward, and instituting a program of equality would be SO UNFAIR because it would cheat them out of their hard-earned privilege and let the current load of oppressed people get out of what they had to go through.

Exactly. It doesn’t work so well with racism and sexism, but it’s great for child abuse and a good chunk of homophobia (if I can spend my whole life in the closet, then by god, so can you).

And the really ugly thing is that sometimes your only “reward” is getting to see other people suffer.

#49 I actually had this held out as an incentive when I was at private school- when YOU get to be an upperclassman, YOU’LL get to be in charge and people will have to follow YOUR orders.”  Yeah buddy I’m going to knuckle down and put up with crap for 2 years just for the privilege of perpetuating it later on.  WTF?

“you’re willing to endanger your health and the health of your children, have at it.”
“Unfortunately we’re just going to end up with a bunch of bags of flesh hooked up to machines”
#25: doubtthat
Yes, what possible interest could a government have in health care costs?  ...our tax dollars go to the purchase of scooters that help old obese racists”
#45: doubtthat

As an old obese Northeast liberal I find doubthat’s attitude unfortunately common and quite obnoxious. If any Pandagon commenter thinks that their superior political intelligence will protect them from the hazards of age they are wrong. Unless guaranteed a fatal massive heart attack, thick and thin alike will suffer indignities.

Even if you want crappy chain Italian food, you can do better than Olive Garden. I’m no one’s idea of a food snob, but I can’t stand that place.

For my first broadway show in 2008 (Times Square on election night, wooo!) I saw Spamalot.  Which was good and all, and I had seen enough musicals to get the jokes on Broadway itself, but there was no way it was going to be as good as the 500th viewing of the DVD.  Never again will I waste those ticket prices on a story I’ve seen before; I guess the point is not to risk high ticket prices on something that might be different.

Re Lee #51

Places like the Olive Garden just suck and the only legitimate reason to eat at a place like that is because you have to for some social obligation.

I agree with you.  However, I find places like Olive Garden are fine when I travel and I’m in a small town and want a sit down meal.  Its fine for the standardization and the quality control especially if you are in the middle of Iowa or Nebraska. 

That said my inlaws rarely eat out but when they do tthey most want to go is either Red Lobster, Olive Garden, or Outback.  I wanted to treat them and took them to a much better seafood place than Red Lobster but they just didn’t appreciate it and actually wanted some items on the current Red Lobster promotion.

I disagree strongly with the fiasco theory. People will pay $5 to see a fiasco. $10, even. Broadway tickets cost hundreds of dollars. There’s no way you’re spending that kind of money on something you don’t think will be anything short of awesome.

NY Expat, you completely misread my point. My point is simple: If you’re going to see something unoriginal—-and that’s where the demand is—-why would you pick the show that’s unoriginal and got scathingly bad reviews? Why not get tickets to something unoriginal but not overtly offensive? If your main criteria is “I’ve heard of that before”, it makes more sense to go with “The Addams Family”, which isn’t known to be so bad that they made fun of it for months straight on “SNL”. You have a mildly better chance of having fun, so why not?

I’ve been to that Olive Garden in Times Square, was traveling with a picky eater who refused to explore. Ever. It was like extracting teeth to get to the bagel place around the corner from our hotel. Which was sad for me, because I really like trying new places and an NYC trip is like the jackpot for new/different/can’t find at home food experiences. But no. Looked through the restaurants in the hotel thing “Oh look, this one is only three blocks away!” “No. Let’s take a cab to Olive Garden.” SIGH.

But definitely the right-wing issue isn’t over waste concerns (why aren’t they just encouraging parents to beat their kids who won’t eat healthy? Isn’t that one of their favorite rights, that of being able to beat your child?) or that the government shouldn’t be regulating things that are not their business (see examples of gay marriage) but a combination of the usual whining about not being able to do everything they want to do whenever they want and just baseless opposition to anything Obama proposes. No matter what she does it will be wrong. If she proposed literacy it would be affront who people who just don’t wanna read. If she worked on decreasing premature births she would be interfering with an individual’s right to have 3lb. babies. If she did nothing she would still be offending them as a ‘welfare queen’ or some nonsense.

Last year, Kathleen Parker wrote in her column how she posed for book jacket photos for her “Save the Males” book wearing “an aggressively feminine suit — pink with a bow in back — just to irritate hard-line feminists, who, without bothering to read the book, would hate it on sight.” She said “it was worth it” even though she hates wearing those types of outfits.

Let’s walk that back: Kathleen Parker deliberately discomfited herself for the sole purpose of selling FEWER copies of her book. That, ladies and gentlemen, is today’s right-wing mindset in a nutshell. Swallow the rat poison and hope the rat drops dead.

(“Save the Males” wound up almost immediately on the remainder tables at Borders and B&N. Kathleen showed them!)

Re: Olive Garden

I am reminded of the scene in the movie “Dick” when they were visiting the White House, and the students become most excited at visiting McDonalds afterwards.

That’s odd, I didn’t think of my comment as contradicting what Amanda said.

When people go to New York to see a Broadway play, you’d think maybe they’d choose something different from what they can get at home.  But these folks don’t.  They get the same old mac and cheese with more mac and way, way more cheese. #34 @oldfeminist

Amanda claimed that people see Spiderman not despite the reviews, but to spite the reviewers, ie backlash. Your point (as I see it) is that they like the big mac, they like the trash. You are right that is not necessarily a contradiction, action is multiply motivated, however I find you reasoning to be far simpler and more plausible. If there is an attraction to trash, you don’t need any complex reasoning as to why people go and watch trash.

Amanda mentions that broadway shows cost hundreds of dollars, if this really was a screw it to elite, wouldn’t they go see Spiderman the movie instead?

This is all speculative, what we really need is some good exit polling.

Re: #22: @Lucy Montrose and #31: @NBarne, I have so much respect for Halley Berry to collect her Razzie.

I can sometimes relate to the Olive Garden - well, not specifically the Olive Garden, but the known quantity.  I love exploring but sometimes when you travel you a) are tired b) don’t have someone to point out which Italian place is ‘the best’.  I myself am notoriously bad at picking places out at random in a new city.  This is especially true for short trips, where you won’t have time to get comfortable in your new surroundings.  The solution isn’t more Olive Gardens (although thank god for chains when you’re driving through the middle of nowhere); it’s probably better addressed through a Chamber of Commerce-led aggressive promotion of local places, up to and including encouraging the staff at hotels to sample the places so they can give good recommendations. 

When I’m at home I don’t worry about allergies, but I have a shrimp allergy and moved to Tokyo.  You’d better believe I am wary about a small, new place where I may not be able to communicate effectively with the staff.  It took a lot longer than two weeks for me to get my bearings and get adventurous.

AM @63:  I’m claiming that it’s a distinction without a difference, like if you wrote a piece of social criticism that claimed people who buy Forever Lazys are aggressively tasteless compared to those who buy Snuggies (hint: Please don’t).

I realize this was just a hook for the rest of the post, so take it for what you will.  Using SNL as a barometer of what a Broadway show tourist will see seems a stretch, though:  Is there that much overlap between families that travel to see Broadway musicals and those with teenage boys?)

Authoritarian Republicans don’t want to play the role of parent, they want to play king of the hill. They don’t want to grow out of being spoiled children, they just want to be the toughest, meanest spoiled child who always gets his way

That’s what comes from seeing Cartman as a role model.

For the record, just because conservative spite doesn’t explain the popularity of Spider-Man doesn’t mean that conservatives aren’t motivated primarily by spite.

They are.

It’s just that lots of people who go to see Spider-Man are apolitical.

Brian7: Seafood is one thing I don’t want to explore with if I’m inland (for fish anyways—shellfish is another matter but I don’t like it anyways). Red Lobster is about the only place I’m comfortable eating seafood around here because I know they get a fresh shipment flown in a couple times a week. Growing up on the coast, I’m a little spoiled about fresh seafood, so I tend to be suspicious of any I might have around here.

As far as known quantities though, I used to be a rather picky eater (I still am, but not nearly to the same degree). My parents took me to Switzerland when I was 14, and trying the local cuisine was NOT on my agenda. I’m sure it drove them crazy, but all I really wanted was a Happy Meal.

Tents (64),

I know a vacation is meant to be shared in many ways, but you don’t have to stick together all the time, do you? I am as picky an eater as anyone, but if someone wants wishing or steak or Chinese food, I’ll just manage on my own. Your experience sounds as if your picky companion and you were in slower struggle. Trust me when I say that a picky eater has more experience than you with such things.

As for Spiderman, I say people go for the same reason they attend NASCAR races: it’s loud, a crowd, and you might see a crash. I want a Batman opera, myself. All that brooding and stuff would be better in that format.

And back to health and conservatives, as a long-time observer of others eating, food is the American puritan’s one opportunity to indulge in sin. No sex or dancing or music or singing or laughter, as all of that is like Roman orgies. But if that pretty thing wants to serve more alcohol, we’re in. But only that part.

Ugh, silly kindle! It’s “power” struggle. Autoincorrectifiedicated again!

It doesn’t work so well with racism and sexism, but it’s great for child abuse and a good chunk of homophobia (if I can spend my whole life in the closet, then by god, so can you).

Also very much like the “53%” meme going around: I worked my ass off for nothing, and I have no health insurance, and I don’t get to be in a union, and I’m missing out on an education, and that’s awesome!

Amanda claimed that people see Spiderman not despite the reviews, but to spite the reviewers, ie backlash. Your point (as I see it) is that they like the big mac, they like the trash. You are right that is not necessarily a contradiction, action is multiply motivated, however I find you reasoning to be far simpler and more plausible. If there is an attraction to trash, you don’t need any complex reasoning as to why people go and watch trash.
Comment #67: benjaminsa on 12/28 at 12:59 AM

But it takes a “fuck you critics” attitude to embrace and glorify the trash rather than just indulging in it without making a big deal about it. 

If you read the reviews of the show, you know it’s schlocky crap.  You’d have to have a mindset that actively opposes the critics to ignore those reviews and go anyway.  I think the mindset is more like “fuck those hoity-toity critics and their disdain for good American heroes.”  Not “I know it’s crap but I want to see it anyway.”

Examples from a little Googling:

“Theater snobs don’t like a play about Spider-Man, and liberals don’t like Glenn Beck…………………….. Shocking.”

“These idiot pundit reviewers are full of it, they probably came into it waiting to trash it because of its comics and superhero origins.”

“Bad reviews by the Washington Post and New York Times mean it must be an excellent play. Here’s my rule of thumb: If liberals hate something it must be good, if Liberals love something it must suck. “

“They will blame it on Glenn! He loved it and supported it so they cant stand with Glenn so they bash it. Facts dont count”

“I guess I agree that us poor common foke must not have the right taste. “

“Sorry, Spidy, its all Glenn’s fault! He loves you, so the left hates you. Simple as that! Never mind they probably haven’t even seen the show.”

“Every Movie I have ever liked has gotten “bad reviews” infact when I go to find a movie, I look for the movie with the worst reviews and the chances are I will love it….Entertainment Reviewers are just elitist liberals with no concept of the real world”

“It’s probably not gay enough for the critics to like it. Now, if Spidey fell in love with Aquaman, it would be bigger than Cats.”

  Old Feminist at 34: I’ve been thinking about your point, why don’t tourists to New York think of something different to see on Broadway rather than what they could see at home. I actually think there are several legitimate reasons to come to NYC and see something that you could see at home. The production and acting values on Broadway are probably a lot higher than what you could see at home, especially if at home isn’t another large city with an active theatre scene. This might make it worthwhile to see Spiderman or Anything Goes or whatever in NYC when you can also watch at home. Plus the kiddies might want to see the Lion King on Broadway.

  Tourists also know that NYC is a theatre city. They also know that they aren’t necessarily culturally educated. Picking an orignal, good interesting show to go to is probably a lot harder than finding a new, interesting restaurant to go to. So tourists go to NYC to see theatre but they are cautious in what they choose to watch in order to maximize their pleasure. Also, a lot of original theatre might be thought provoking than fun provoking and people just want to have fun on vacation.

  Amanda at 63: How many people are really aware of the Addams Family compared to Spider Man? Excluding the muscial, the young entry in the Addams Family media is a few years older than the first Spider Man movie and the Addams Family movies did less well at the box office I think. I know this seems silly but I’m repeatedly struck by the holes in people’s cultural knowledge. Recently, I learned that my dance teacher knows who the Talking Heads are but never seemed to have heard of Pink Floyd. She grew up in a secular Jewish household in NYC, she is of the right age to be aware of Pink Floyd when the were popular. She never heard of them. I would not be surprised if people are unaware of the Addams Family.

But it takes a “fuck you critics” attitude to embrace and glorify the trash rather than just indulging in it without making a big deal about it.

If you read the reviews of the show, you know it’s schlocky crap.  You’d have to have a mindset that actively opposes the critics to ignore those reviews and go anyway.  I think the mindset is more like “fuck those hoity-toity critics and their disdain for good American heroes.”  Not “I know it’s crap but I want to see it anyway.” Comment #76: oldfeminist on 12/28 at 10:12 AM

Look at the Star War prequels, the Twilight series, they did really well, and where given high ratings by fans despite being completely shafted by critics. Some people like the familiar and don’t like taking risks, tourists eat at McDonalds in Paris. Hell it is the McD business model, and it is why film studies love sequels. Spiderman on broadway is a sequel in some ways.

That said, looking at the quotes you found (not that googling a pattern proves much) I admit that there is something to the glorifying of this ‘schlocky crap’, which might be a stick it to the critics attitude. I just don’t buy that this is the main reason tourists are shelling out for it.

Lee, I can understand your point as far as it goes, that is, if you like classical music at your local symphony, you will probably love Vienna.  I think you have hit on something with “Also, a lot of original theatre might be thought provoking than fun provoking and people just want to have fun on vacation.”

A show that isn’t white bread America is going to be thought provoking if you’ve never been anywhere but the boonies.  So even a show that has gay people in it might be too much.  I wonder how likely Broadway shows like Kiss of the Spider Woman or Angels in America would be to succeed today.  Making Broadway more commercial has made it so that if you want to have your thoughts provoked you’re probably going to have to go off- or off-off-Broadway now.

I was watching “Back to the Future” (1985) over the weekend.  I am sure I watched it when it came out but didn’t remember all the details.  I was shocked, shocked to discover that one of the major plot points was that the main character, a high school student, so he’s presumably 18 or under, had plans to go camping with his girlfriend, and that the “bad” parents were negative about this kind of thing so that he had to hide it, and when he returns to his new and improved parents, they are supportive of his “big date” and think it’s cute!  Also every third word was damn or goddamn or shit.  This would not fly as a family movie now, but it’s a classic, a staple.

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”

H. L. Mencken, Notes on Journalism, 09/19/1926

oldfeminist, I looked up the rating for BTTF, it was PG, and of course you couldn’t have a popular movie that adults would want to see rated PG these days, even if it was for some profanity and a hint of incest.

  Old Feminsit at 79: Thats pretty much at my point. To a lot of people even visting NYC is a big culture shock. I mean people can get around without cars and they live in much smaller houses and apartments than elsewhere. Seeing some truly original play or even a not so original middle brow play or eating at an unfamiliar restaurant is going to be even more of a culture shock.

  Re Back to the Future was more of a teen movie than a family movie when it came out, so its natural that it would have a lot more sex and cursing in it than true familiy movies. It only became a family movie because the people who watched it as teens and kids had families. This happens a lot. Many songs that we view as kid songs to be sung in elementary school music classes, like the hokey pokey, were for adults when they first appeared.

Places like Olive Garden do serve a purpose—when you’re traveling somewhere, it’s a known quantity.  There are no surprises.  This works for picky people/kids, but it’s also good for anyone with food allergies.  Large chain restaurants are getting better and better at identifying allergens and making efforts to have food items that everyone can eat.  With smaller restaurants—especially ethnic restaurants—you’re never sure if you’ll be able to effectively communicate the nature of the allergy or any special instructions.  I find that even native speakers of English have trouble understanding these things.  So it’s nice to go somewhere like Olive Garden and say, “I need an allergen menu,” and have all the options laid out there for you.  I’m still not a fan of eating out because it’s putting my health in someone’s hands, but it sure beats drinking water while you watch everyone else eat and then gnawing on a Kind bar later.

This is true to some extent, but independent restaurants do seem to be getting better at addressing food allergens/restrictions for patrons, especially when given notice if you’re making a reservation. Chain restaurants can work when you’re eating on the fly, but it can be useful to call recommended restaurants ahead of time to see if they can accommodate food allergies if you’re able as well. Granted, this tends to be more likely with pricier establishments, but it’s usually worth a try, especially if you’re the type who likes to try restaurants that you can’t get at home.

@Comment #58: peggy

Healthy living and better diets won’t cure all health care problems.  It will generate significant improvements society-wide.

Additionally, I am of the opinion that we should be paying for people’s health care regardless of their life decisions, but that doesn’t mean we can’t identify habits that will improve health outcomes throughout society.

And it’s also enjoyable to make fun of conservatives that rail about government involvement in their lives while they use Medicare to finance their health care needs.  Since long-term health care costs are the only significant and negative factor looming over our economy, government (the people we elect to represent us) necessarily has a role in dealing with that issue.  Unlike the gender of the person one marries, health care costs really are, in part, the business of the government.

And by the way, my first post had nothing to do with age.  It was just a joke about conservatives who are so fanatic about their anti-liberal ideology that they would eagerly endanger their own health.  In fact, I was mostly thinking about childhood obesity when writing.  If Michelle Obama says it’s a good idea for kids to get some exercise, fuck that.  Plug them into XBox and keep a few shipping crates of Doritos within arm’s reach.

Of course, in practice, it’s not really that amusing, as my mother, who watched her grandmother spend a decade slowly dying from a treatable form of skin cancer because she was a Christian Scientists and didn’t “believe” in medicine, could tell you.

I doubt that backlash is playing a big role in making Spiderman a hit. It sounds like just another Broadway spectacular, and Spiderman is a popular character what with the comic books, the movies, the heroism and the appeal to adolescent angst. To be honest, Spiderman sounds a lot better than Starlight Express. That was a play about trains as portrayed by actors on roller skates. Even eight year old train fans were panning it, at least according to the woman behind me on the tkts line who had taken some nephews. It ran for a good two years. Spiderman will probably do better.

(Am I the only one thinking of Roy Cohn in Angels of America - “What’s it about? It’s about cats!”)

I also don’t think people like large quantities of fat, salt and sugar because experts, doctors and first ladies are telling them not to eat that crap. Mammals like fat, salt and sugar for biological reasons, and they’ll eat too much of them for the same reasons. Upper class people tend to avoid eating too much fat, salt and sugar because they realize that they can control their fates to varying degrees and too much fat salt and sugar can lead to nasty problems. Lower class people believe that they have no control of their fates, so they figure they might as well indulge. Fox News panders to this kind of working class thinking. It worked for Murdoch in England, and it works here in the states.

You can interpret the effect through a class lens, politically or developmentally, but you get the same effect.

Nobody who runs a business gives a shit what obamas stablemate has to say. Thinking that that woman holds any sway over the actual day to day running of a business, any business, is ludicrous and a theory.  Business owners hold the obamas in contempt because they know that they ve never run diddly shit in their lives.  Nothing , nada, zip….losers on the government dole…albeit through elected office.  And for fuckface with the oh so clever handle, I work nights and rarely if ever get to see Fox news.  Get over them already.

Nobody who runs a business gives a shit what obamas stablemate has to say.

You don’t even have a stablemate, do you, Knute?

Thinking that that woman holds any sway over the actual day to day running of a business, any business, is ludicrous and a theory.

Now, go over to Michelle Malkins’ website and tell her that, I’m sure she’d welcome your educated and eloquent point of view.

Business owners hold the obamas in contempt because they know that they ve never run diddly shit in their lives.

Nope, he’s never run anything significant in his life:

Chicago community organizer and Harvard Law School

Two years after graduating, Obama was hired in Chicago as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman and Riverdale) on Chicago’s far South Side. He worked there as a community organizer from June 1985 to May 1988.[29][30] During his three years as the DCP’s director, its staff grew from one to thirteen. He helped set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants’ rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[31] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.[32] In mid-1988, he traveled for the first time in Europe for three weeks and then for five weeks in Kenya, where he met many of his paternal relatives for the first time.[33] He returned in August 2006 for a visit to his father’s birthplace, a village near Kisumu in rural western Kenya.[34]

Nothing , nada, zip….losers on the government dole…albeit through elected office.

You’re a loser who can’t handle the English language, troll.

And for fuckface with the oh so clever handle, I work nights and rarely if ever get to see Fox news.

But you still echo the talking points perfectly, that should count for something,

Knuterockhead.

NewtRockhead, believe whatever ridiculous crap you want, express your vile opinions as you like (despite, or because of, the audience of thoughtful people here)’ but “Obama’s stablemate”?  Come on…

I haven’t particularly liked any first lady during my lifetime (born 1960), and some I’ve positively loathed (both Bush-wives, especially Barbara Bush, and Nancy Reagan come to mind).  But no matter how much I disliked them, I never once thought to compare them to farm animals.

I know it’s very popular among wingnuts to hate Hillary Clinton with the heat of a thousand suns, but would you have called her “Clinton’s stablemate” or is that an honor reserved exclusively for the African American spouse of the first African American president?

I hope you’re not crass enough to drop that into the punchbowl and then complain about how bad the tone of comments and discussions are hereabouts.  But I’m sure you’re going to fulfill my worst expectations of you…

C’mon Mike, Knute has just demonstrated how much he values women, as long as they’re deferential and have the right skin color.

Lower class people believe that they have no control of their fates, so they figure they might as well indulge.

Getting there, but still off target. Lower class people simply have fewer options. Part of this is the food desert phenomenon, but there’s also the issue that fatty foods are calorie dense. When you’re hungry and only have a couple bucks to spend for lunch, the dollar menu at Micky D’s will keep you going a lot longer than a couple apples. People tend to talk about calories as a source of weight gain, but they’re also ENERGY. Healthy foods tend to cost more compared to how much energy you get from them. (Don’t get me started on the costs of furnishing a kitchen if you don’t already have one)

And really, I think it’s the myth that you have more control over your fate than you do, especially if you’re poor, that Fox News panders too. “Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps,” seems to be the mantra of the right-wing, which ignores that not everyone has bootstraps (or even boots). Everything is about self-sufficiency and hard work, without looking at whether self-sufficiency is possible or hard work really does get rewarded (hint: it doesn’t). The right forgets that it is the interdependencies that society creates that has allowed humanity to get as far as we have.

Everything is about self-sufficiency and hard work, without looking at whether self-sufficiency is possible or hard work really does get rewarded (hint: it doesn’t). The right forgets that it is the interdependencies that society creates that has allowed humanity to get as far as we have.
Comment #92: Jayn Newell on 12/29 at 12:28 PM

It’s a simplistic view of the world.  They worked hard, got a good job, got promoted, and so on.  It’s inconceivable that someone who’s not in a good job, or who doesn’t get promoted, was working hard.  That might happen once, or twice, with bad luck, but for sure if you have had a hard life, you made it for yourself.

This explains why they have problems with evolution and statistics and quantum physics—they have a very deterministic viewpoint and anything non-mechanical just burns their brains out.

Cris @21 and NY Expat @32:
Those listed, except for Macchio and Shields, either did stage first or started stage work at around the same time.  Radcliffe was in his first major play at around the release of the 2nd HP movie (his third film that I know of), but as he was barely a teenager at the time, I would call that basically concurent (though the play was directed by a cast member from HP 2, so likely why he had the part).

Jayn Newell @ 91:
on a recent trip to SE Asia, the spouse and I visited department store with 3 floors of appliances.  They were more expensive than the same types of items in the US, but typically both more efficient and more compact.  The idea that someone would spend more than an average year’s pay (about 2X actually) on a stove top (just the top, no oven) was mind bogling to me.  Feezers and fridges weren’t much better priced.

I have an answer to your question:

Why are so many conservatives eager to imagine themselves not just as children, but as annoying, picky children?

In a state with lots of born-again Christians, why do so many politicians, even the most completely cynical prostitute-chasing ones, portray themselves as born-again Christians?  Where NASCAR has a lot of fans, why do such types show up at races and try to make folks think they’re lifetime big fans?  Annoying picky children don’t just evaporate; a lot of them grow up to be annoying picky adults, and some of those vote, and if you seek their support it is practical to present yourself as one of them.

But what I really signed in to say is, oh that picture!  That hamburger!  Those fries!  All that is lacking is beer.  So beautiful!  I wanna jump up and eat my monitor!  Oh sure, I know better.

Not beer, chocolate malt.  Beer would be for with fish and chips or later.

The picture is a Double-Double special sans wrappers and soda.

The information on the burger picture indicates it’s a Five Guys burger.  The picture is from here:

http://www.mikesroadtrip.com/five-guys-vs-in-n-out/

But you are super close, DA, because on the page above you can see how Five Guys basically copied the In-N-Out Double Double burger configuration and look.  It was only the lack of sesame seeds on the In-N-Out burgers that made me think it might not be a match.

Five Guys gets lower marks from the website even though it’s supposedly as good a burger because it’s notably more expensive, and the writer prefers the skinnier fries of In-N-Out.

I haven’t tried either one because beef isn’t on my menu.  Recently the nearby Burger King started carrying Gardenburgers and they’re reasonably good for fast food, but then BK decided to make their fries thick cut and like the website writer I don’t really care for them that way.  They seem to have injected a huge amount of potato flavoring into them too.

You don’t have to eat beef to enjoy anything besides the fries, at In-N-Out, oldfeminist:

There are, however, additional named items not on the menu, but available at every In-N-Out. These variations reside on the chain’s “secret menu,” though the menu is accessible on the company’s web site. These variations include 3x3 (which has three patties and three slices of cheese), 4x4 (four patties and four slices of cheese), Neapolitan shakes, grilled cheese sandwich (comes with everything that the burgers come with except meat, plus two slices of melted cheese), veggie burgers (comes with everything that the burgers come with; is not an actual veggie patty, and does not come with cheese), and Animal Style, a house specialty that the company has trademarked because of its association with the chain. An Animal Style fry comes with two slices of melted cheese, spread, and grilled onions on top; Animal style burgers have mustard fried into the meat patties as they cook, and in addition to the lettuce and tomato it also includes pickles, grilled onions and extra spread.[29]