I love seeing \“progressives\” fuming over this. Thanks for making my day!

I’ll bite.  What’s with the quotation marks/slashies?

They’re the marks assholes use to denigrate something.

That’s certainly bizarre.  Does he know it usually denotes sarcasm and hence makes his comment make no sense?

I keep receiving emails from the Obama campaign/ transition team asking for more donations.  I’ve written to explain that I won’t be making any more given his choice of Warren, but maybe they should try soliciting at Saddleback Church.

Well, maybe Obama does have a point.  Perhaps he can be inclusive by leading a rousing chorus of “Happy Birthday Adolf Hitler,” and at the same time he’ll make a young boy, whose birthday dreams were smashed by the evil Shoprite employees, smile.

Pam, awesome post.

Obama’s “inclusiveness” mantra always seems to head only in one direction—an excuse to scorn progressives and embrace the Right.

Props go to Seeker, who basically said this exact same several weeks ago.

Obama, if you’re listening, PLEASE uninvite Warren with a nice little P.R. statement, get someone who is NOT devoted to a lifetime of being a jackass hater, and let’s all move along nicely. We still love you, we can still play nice, we just want you to not forget about us all of the sudden. We stood by you, can’t you return the favor?

At what point do we say to hell with the Democrats, we need a real progressive party?

Maybe Obama wanted to thank the guy for hosting that debate with him and McCain, and being reasonably fair about it.

As for Greenwald, he’s a tiresome twit whose shtick consists almost entirely of howling about how “lazy reporters” are “not doing their jobs” when they write things he disagrees with. He really needs to get over himself.

As for Greenwald, he’s a tiresome twit whose shtick consists almost entirely of howling about how “lazy reporters” are “not doing their jobs” when they write things he disagrees with.

Yeah!  What’s with being ticked at a reporter just because he wrote something you disagree with?  Something like “the weather tomorrow will be cloudy” or “torture is sometimes justified” or “Dick Cheney still deserves our respect” or “it’s okay for the USA to invade countries for no good reason and oppress and humiliate their people”.  I mean, okay some guy wrote something you disagree with.  Get over it!  Move on! ! !

WARNING: EXPERIMENTAL COMMENT.

Let’s take two things from this thread and put ‘em together.

As for Greenwald, he’s a tiresome twit whose shtick consists almost entirely of howling about how “lazy reporters” are “not doing their jobs” when they write things he disagrees with.

I love seeing \“conservatives\” fuming over this. Thanks for making my day!

OH SNAP.

why do people get so upset because others have differing views?

Cyrano, how about putting these two things together?

1) Obama won the election, overcoming overwhelming odds to become the first African-American elected president of the United States.

2) Obama thinks it would be appropriate to include this Warren fellow as part of an effort to reach out to people who disagree with him.

I hope you’ll forgive me if I trust Obama’s judgment in this matter more than Glenn Greenwald’s. Or yours.

“Not even Bill Clinton’s most extreme Dick-Morris-led “triangulation” tactics involved an attempt to court Jerry Falwell.”

Given time, it might have. Bill and Hillary cuddled up to some gruesome characters in their day. Didn’t Al Gore once meet up with Fred Phelps for a photo op?

The problem with purely crass political calculations like this is that they have a very limited shelf life. The people you’re supposedly appeasing would be fools to behave honorably and acknowledge that you’re licking their boots if they want the free showshine to continue. It’s in their interests to adopt a permanent stance of “Never Satisified” in order to keep the goodies flowing, in this case it being a propaganda victory handed to them practically on a silver platter.

This latest bullshit doesn’t surprise me in the least, given how Obama went out of his way to throw gays under the bus several times during his campaign.

Didn’t Al Gore once meet up with Fred Phelps for a photo op?

That was BEFORE he went insane. He used to be, believe it or not, a well-respected civil rights attorney.

What’s with being ticked at a reporter just because he wrote something you disagree with?  Something like “the weather tomorrow will be cloudy” or “torture is sometimes justified” or “Dick Cheney still deserves our respect” or “it’s okay for the USA to invade countries for no good reason and oppress and humiliate their people”.  I mean, okay some guy wrote something you disagree with.

A REPORTER would not write any of those sentences.  A pundit, columnist or commentator might.  Even an essayist.  But not a reporter.

He used to be, believe it or not, a well-respected civil rights attorney.

For real? The guy who protests soldier funerals?

The problem with purely crass political calculations like this is that they have a very limited shelf life. The people you’re supposedly appeasing would be fools to behave honorably and acknowledge that you’re licking their boots if they want the free showshine to continue. It’s in their interests to adopt a permanent stance of “Never Satisified” in order to keep the goodies flowing, in this case it being a propaganda victory handed to them practically on a silver platter.

Quoted for 100% truth.

May I also register a concern I have coming from some of the Left? This whole “Obama demonstrated good judgment in getting himself elected, so I’m going to trust he has good reasons for everything he does” meme worries me just slightly. Remember those Repub trolls who said Obama was our “messiah” and that we “worship ‘hope and change’”? Those guys were full of shit, I thought, but that’s what this meme makes me think of. Obama is a politician, yes. He’s shrewd, yes. But he’s not a messiah that you “trust”. He’s a politician whose ass you ride daily to ensure that he doesn’t throw you and your interests under the bus. And that’s true for ANY politician.

Frankly, the whole thing reminds me of the Loyal Bushie phenomena where those last 30%ers just could not, ever, accept that anything Bush did was wrong or questionable or bad for America. He got us through 9/11! There hasn’t been an attack (on American soil) since!! He loves Jesus!!! Are we going to see Loyal Obamites? I hope we’re better than that.

I’m only a humble Britisher but given the 1st amendment’s establishment clause why do they even have a priest doing anything at the inauguration of the President? Doesn’t the selection of a priest of a particular religious denomination imply an elevation of that church above the others; in other words, an act establishing it as the state’s preference and therefore a violation of the clause? Even if they have two priests of rival churches during the event, it still represents a promotion of those two churches above all others.

No religious ceremony of any kind should take place during the inauguration or any other function of the US government.

A REPORTER would not write any of those sentences.  A pundit, columnist or commentator might.  Even an essayist.  But not a reporter.

Does the NBC news division count as a “reporter”?  Because one story Glenn’s been working on recently is NBC’s use of national defense experts who have blatant conflicts of interest—without disclosing, or even understanding why they should disclose, those conflicts. For instance, when a former general with financial stake in a company that supplies the US Army goes on TV as an “unbiased” expert and claims that we should stay in Iraq—thus increasing profits for said company—don’t you think those ties are relevant?

And here’s a column ripping some reporters for poor coverage of John Brennan. . . or are they pundits, or essayists?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/12/08/cia/

Those were just in the past few weeks, by the way.

This whole “Obama demonstrated good judgment in getting himself elected, so I’m going to trust he has good reasons for everything he does” meme worries me just slightly.

Hear hear.  I suppose Barack Obama has never (literally, never) made a mistake.  And never will. 

Sure, he didn’t win every primary contest.  Or every state in the general.  But he’s never been wrong ! ! ! !!

Are we going to see Loyal Obamites? I hope we’re better than that.

We’re better than that, we’re also worse.  We’re better in that we’ll ride Obama’s ass if he doesn’t do the right thing at all.  We’re worse in that many liberals are already proclaiming his administration to be a failure and that he’ll be only a one-term president.  He hasn’t fucking done anything yet!  Could we please wait a few months to start tearing him apart?

Could we also have reasonable expectations for him?  He’s being handed an enormous shit sandwich that needs to be prioritized over any number of other issues.  He’s going to be the President of the United States, which necessitates his being one of the most moderate politicians in the country by virtue of the fact that he represents all the people.  We can expect him to move to repeal DADT and DOMA.  We can’t expect him to do anything about marriage equality.  We can expect him to repeal the Bush tax cuts.  We can’t expect him to bring marginal tax rates up to 90 percent.

So I checked out Phelps’ Wikipedia page. (Ho. Lee. Fuck.) He was pretty much bat-shit insane from the mid-1970s on, and he was supporting Gore in 1988, explicitly because he perceived Gore as anti-gay.

But I don’t know that that’s particularly relevant to this discussion. I think this pick plays really differently with the general public than it does with progressives. I “trust” Obama that what he’s doing is in his own political interests, but that’s not the same as in my interests or the interests of people and causes I care about. And I think Ellen has a really good point. I mean, sure, if this is the worst thing he ever does, then I can live with it. But it obviously has a lot of symbolism, and he picked him for a reason, and we shouldn’t overlook that, either.

It’s interesting to me that the Warren pick has killed at least two stories:  no one is connecting Obama and Blagojevich, and no one is mentioning that the guy doing the closing benediction is Rev. Joseph Lowery, who publicly scolded George W. Bush in his sermon at Coretta Scott King’s funeral while Bush squirmed in his seat. 

Here’s the Lowery footage.

Now that’s some triangulation I can believe in—after the furor on the left over Warren’s selection, they can’t make a peep on the right about Lowery.

I think I may be coming around on this Warren thing.

No religious ceremony of any kind should take place during the inauguration or any other function of the US government.

Agreed.

But the 1st amendment deals specifically with acts of Congress.  It doesn’t prohibit clergy from speaking or even proselytizing at federal events.

If Warren invited Obama to speak in front of his congregation, this could just be Obama paying back the favor by inviting Warren to speak in front of his, er, congregation.  Clearly the man just hasn’t sold enough copies of his books and needs the press.  I assume the controversy will incite people to watch the inauguration online, or on TV, who otherwise may not have bothered.  It makes me less excited about what’s supposed to be a record-breaking inauguration (in terms of people attending, and historicity) but I’m already dealing with disappointment that any part of the ceremony has to be religious at all.  This is a time to celebrate humans taking responsibility for ourselves, not a time to thank the Big Sky Fairy.

Let’s hope Lowery is a better speaker than Warren.  If quotes are going to fly on the intertubes the next day, I’d rather them be from someone I’m hoping is a genuine progressive than from a man who’s palatable to liberals desperate to appeal to evangelicals.

Let’s hope Lowery is a better speaker than Warren.

Lowery started his civil rights career with the Montgomery bus boycott.  According to Wikipedia, Ebony magazine named him one of the 15 greatest black preachers.

He will wipe the floor with Warren.  Guaranteed.  And by doing the benediction, it’s Lowery who gets the last word.

He used to be, believe it or not, a well-respected civil rights attorney.

For real? The guy who protests soldier funerals?
chingona on 12/18 at 05:22 PM

Yup. He supported Al Gore in 1988 for his Presidential campaign, before he went nuts. He used to be a centrist or even moderately liberal Democrat. There are two theories as to why he changed—either he went absolutely batshit insane, or he’s an agent provocateur trying to make homophobes look even worse than they do.

From wikipedia:

Phelps earned a law degree from Washburn University in 1962, and founded the Phelps Chartered law firm in 1964. The first notable cases were of a civil rights nature. “I systematically brought down the Jim Crow laws of this town,” he says.[15] Phelps’ daughter was quoted as saying, “We took on the Jim Crow establishment, and Kansas did not take that sitting down. They used to shoot our car windows out, screaming we were nigger lovers,” and that the Phelps law firm made up one-third of the state’s federal docket of civil-rights cases.[18]

Hard to believe, but true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Civil_rights_attorney

“Lowery started his civil rights career with the Montgomery bus boycott.”

Oh yeah, Rick Warren deserves to share a stage with *him*.  (rolls eyes)

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“Now that’s some triangulation I can believe in—after the furor on the left over Warren’s selection, they can’t make a peep on the right about Lowery.”

What this actually does is make the Rev. Lowery’s appearance almost meaningless.

Cyrano, how about putting these two things together?

1) Obama won the election, overcoming overwhelming odds to become the first African-American elected president of the United States.

2) Obama thinks it would be appropriate to include this Warren fellow as part of an effort to reach out to people who disagree with him.

I hope you’ll forgive me if I trust Obama’s judgment in this matter more than Glenn Greenwald’s. Or yours.

Alas, there is no forgiveness forthcoming for you, B.S. My heart is just too small to accomodate someone who dismisses Greenwald, who regularly busts ass tearing down people I strongly dislike, as a “tiresome twit” without explanation or stipulation.

My fault entirely, I imagine.

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