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I got a lot of emails about this, and I sent them to Emily at RH Reality Check, and discovered she was already on it. But seriously, it’s worth spreading the news, because as weird as this story is, it reveals a lot about the anti-choice movement (and right wing fundamentalism in general). The American Life League is calling for a “boycott” of Krispy Kreme because they....wait for it.....used the phrase “freedom of choice” in a press release that is primarily about tying their donuts to the occasion of the inauguration in a way that’s so generic that they would have put the same release out if John McCain had won. Read it and weep:
Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Inc. (NYSE: KKD) is honoring American’s sense of pride and freedom of choice on Inauguration Day, by offering a free doughnut of choice to every customer on this historic day, Jan. 20. By doing so, participating Krispy Kreme stores nationwide are making an oath to tasty goodies—just another reminder of how oh-so-sweet ‘free’ can be.
We have a black man and a liberal about to take the White House, so naturally the nuts are in full-blown panic mode. In normal circumstances, the freaks at ALL know that it’s unwise to show their pure freakiness in public, and they might, under other circumstances, have reminded themselves that most people think the word “choice” means “choice”, instead of how they take it, which is to mean “the demonic assault on male supremacy by witches/feminists”. In this case, though, events just overtook their last grasp on reality.
What made reading this move from the “merely hilarious” column to the “fucking scary” column for me, though, is that I’m currently reading Matt Taibbi’s latest book The Great Derangement, and he spends a good deal of his time in the book pretending to be a Christian attending James Hagee’s church in San Antonio. (If you don’t know much about Washington player, apocalypse fan, and megachurch pastor James Hagee, I think Bill Moyers has done a bang-up job covering him.) And what Taibbi explains is something that’s ignored in most mainstream representations of the fundie megachurch culture, because it’s probably considered impolite to reveal how much the yokels act like yokels. Taibbi discovers that the church members believe that the world is literally haunted by demons around every corner, and they’re all seeking ways to enter your body and make you a sinner, and that the only way to get rid of them is to playact exorcisms. You can read some here.
This casts the fundie boycotts of this or that in a much different light. Most of us tend to think of boycotts as things you do in order to pressure companies to change policies.* But I suspect, reading this Taibbi book, that it’s more about adding to the already long list of Things To Avoid Lest The Demons Get You. Taibbi experiments at one point by shaming his “fellow believers” when they reach for fortune cookies by claiming that he believes fortune cookies are Satanic. Sure enough, they all toss the cookies back, fearful and ashamed. I get the impression that the more mundane the sinful thing, the better, because it helps keep followers in a state of constant paranoia. Also, it makes it impossible for demons not to get into your body, meaning you have to keep coming back for regular exorcisms. Or, short of that, it makes it impossible to avoid being a wretched, no-good sinner, no matter how hard you try, so you need to cling to the church (and right wing politics) for dear life, or you’re going to hell for sure. Taibbi is repeatedly appalled at how much the church breaks people down, by relentlessly driving home the message that they are nothing, that they’re debased and worthless. Putting Krispy Kremes on the list of demon entry points is sure to be effective at the aim of making the followers feel like they’re constantly besieged by Satan.
The overreaction to the innocuous use of the phrase “freedom of choice” points to another issue, which is that we’re not even really speaking the same language as the fundie nuts. That’s why Bush declaring the last “Sanctity of Life Day” makes so much sense to the nuts, but none at all to the normies. Because it’s obvious that life has no sanctity to Bush---not female life, not gay life, not Iraqi life, not American soldier life, not the planet’s life, not the life of the people (all of us) who need a healthy planet to survive. The day really is “Fundie Nuts Are Better Than You Day”, and it’s understood that way. I don’t really think “life” even means “fetal life” so much anymore---after all, pregnant women are on the list of people whose life is not precious to Bush, especially if they’re poor or Iraqi, and that means the fetuses inside them are not precious, either. At this point, The Fetus is a demigod in the fundie pantheon. Fetus: The God Of Female Subjugation. It has no more relationship to real people’s experiences of pregnancy than Aphrodite directly described most people’s experience of romance. Through many layers of complicated symbolism, then, “life” functions as a code word for the fundamentalist view of the godly life---women and children subjugated to men (with pregnancy functioning as a physical representation of the conquest), gay people erased from the equation, sex tightly controlled---a world with the wrinkles ironed out, with all the answers handed to you, and subsequently a life without much texture or color to it. But at least it’s safe. And then there’s the next one, so wasting this one isn’t so bad, now is it?
*In reality, they’re usually ineffective and undertaken to demonstrate moral righteousness through sacrifice.
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Posted by
Amanda Marcotte on 01:46 PM •
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I am absolutely furious about that santicity of life day thing, not only because its the antithesis of everything I believe, but because its my birthday!. Yes, the chimperor has picked my fucking birthday to push anti-choice agendas down america’s collective throats! Gah!
Well, if the fundie wingnuts stop eating Krispy Kreme, maybe they’ll all lose some of that fat in the brains and their higher thought processes will start working again. And, bonus: more Krispy Kreme for the rest of us! It’s a win-win all the way around.
yah!!!!
(NO, this is not a swipe at overweight people… )
According to my Futurama Calendar (although the google says it was yesterday), today was already International Hot and Spicy Food Day.
Maybe a cayenne donut is in order?
I feel your pain, Moi. That same chimperor picked my birthday to piss all over by prancing around in a codpiece on that aircraft carrier and calling it “Mission Accomplished”.
I just dont care what those idiots think anymore. Every time they open their mouth they prove how Pavlovian they really are. I will fight them to my dying breath but their stupidity ceases to surprise me anymore.
“Taibbi experiments at one point by shaming his “fellow believers” when they reach for fortune cookies by claiming that he believes fortune cookies are Satanic. Sure enough, they all toss the cookies back, fearful and ashamed.”
...interesting. When I read that, I too felt like tossing my cookies…
***
Back in my fundie high school, I knew a paster and his wife who told me once (on a long car trip) that Bewitched had been his favorite TV show, but one day he realized that Satan was using it to insinuate himself into people’s lives. So, of course, he had to give it up.
And don’t get me started on all the Ouija Board (always pronounced “weegee” board) stories I heard growing up. I’ve heard dozens.
While staying with my grandparents one summer, we (my sister and I — I was about 8 or 9 and my sister was about 6 or 7) were introduced to the neighbor kids across the street (that we had never before been allowed to interact with), and among other things, it turned out they had a Ouija game. We pulled it out, got bored with it pretty quickly (why wouldn’t we, it just fucking sits there doing nothing), but I remember being so afraid at the time that I had committed a grievous sin by even looking at it. Even at that age I was scared that I was risking my life.
(Ironically, shortly after, my sister and I got chicken pox. I realized many years later that my parents and grandparents had arranged for this to happen because those neighbor kids - who we never played with before or ever again after - were infected. The things parents do to their kids...)
I feel your pain, Moi. That same chimperor picked my birthday to piss all over by prancing around in a codpiece on that aircraft carrier and calling it “Mission Accomplished”.
Bit of a derail, but do you know what W really accomplished that day? The ending of anyone using the phrase “Mission Accomplished” in anything other than a sarcastic or ironic fashion.
I have small children, the eldest of which was only a year old on 9/11. So I’m privy to something I assume most of you are not...current children’s education programming.
Since 9/11 two cartoons have debuted “Diego” the male counterpart to “Dora the Explorer”, and “Little Einsteins”. Both Diego and the Einsteins go on missions to rescue animals or help someone or win a race. At the end of the show, Diego always says “Mission completa/ Mission complete” and Leo of the Einsteins says “Mission completion”. These phrases sounded harsh to my ears at first, b/c the idiomatic phrasing is “Mission accomplished”.
But W fucked that phrase up so bad that not even cartoons can use it. It’s “Mission complete” from now on, if you are even remotely serious about saying something has ended.
Of course, we here in pandagonia all know that Krispy Kreme was really just making a Devo reference.
Sanctity of Life Day just makes me think of the Star Wars Holiday Special.
I await the outrage to follow someone putting out a Google Map of all the Krispy Kreme locations.
Maybe a cayenne donut is in order?
Mighty Ponygirl on 01/17 at 11:02 AM
I never liked donuts.
But I really miss jalapeno bagels.
(I don’t bother to find out if I can even get decent bagels here in Nevada, because I don’t have a toaster oven and can’t get one here, because the apartment kitchen has no countertop space for one.)
Even better--tomato basil bagels. Not hot, but oh so spicy and tasty!
So all of you who can, have a jalapeno bagel and think of this poor Californian-in-exile!
I have never wavered, and never will, in considering the so-called “pro-life” position to be a serious mental disorder. Its proponents certainly do nothing to dispel that notion.
I read that Taibbi book and really liked it. I think the part you mentioned about his time at the megachurch was my favorite, but it was also really disturbing. As a generally rational-minded person, I just can’t believe that people who literally believe in demon possession are out there… and it seems that the media is afraid of criticizing them, because they have to “respect” religion. Oy.
Not that I am unconcerned about the scourge of abortion-promoting satan-donuts, but Mark: have you considered getting a baker’s rack? My apartment’s kitchen is woefully inadequate, but a baker’s rack in the so-called dining area holds a toaster oven and a microwave, both godsends.
Sadly, my own flesh and blood are exactly the kind of people who would take head to this. My mother teaches at a church preschool and Disney characters are forbidden because of the whole gay-friendly policies.
The desire to reason things out with my family is very similar to the desire to press one’s face against a hot stove. Nevertheless, I cannot resist.
This is the one time I regret my inability to eat wheat because I would promise to gorge on doughnuts for the next several months if not.
I read “full-blown panic mode” as “full-brown panic mode” at first. I think my misinterpretation is still correct.
As a generally rational-minded person, I just can’t believe that people who literally believe in demon possession are out there…
It’s been the default position for most of mankind’s religious history - consider animism, Shinto and Hinduiism. Fundies just add the distinction of making Heap Big Spirit as the Good one and all the other little ones as Evil.
Actually, it may serve as a filter. Whenever anyone starts talking about creationism, criticising climate change science, or all the other crap, you may want to ask them out loud whether they also believe demons are around in the world, directly attempting to influence people.
Note to self: go pick up a couple dozen Krispy Kremes for the office on Monday. Sure, that’s why they’re offering the promotion in the first place (so people will come in and buy their product in addition to getting their freebie), but why not reward them for having the flying monkeys come after them?
And then there’s the next one, so wasting this one isn’t so bad, now is it?
Which reminds me of my favorite line in my favorite Modest Mouse song:
You wasted life, why wouldn’t you waste the afterlife?
This item made me crave a doughnut. Not a Krispie Kreme, but if I could exercise my freedom of choice, I’d have a Cork’s Old-fashioned. Alas, I can’t because Cork’s (a local business) was sold a while back to some folks who have a very limited vision of their mission compared to the previous owners.
But I WANT a DOUGHNUT!! Maybe I’ll buy a Krispie Kreme.
My birthday isn’t ruined yet. It (August 4th) is the same as Barack Obama’s!
I don’t have a toaster oven and can’t get one here, because the apartment kitchen has no countertop space for one.
Oh Mark!!! {{{hugs}}}
Toaster ovens are better than microwaves.
PIATOR, I actually did once ask that of a fundamentalist co-worker/workfriend. He said yes, and I boggled.
Coincidentally, he brought a big box of glazed doughnuts in to work today, and I’m enjoying one now.
And they wonder why so many baby-fundies flee fast and far when they come of age. In a family of five children, all of us have left the church, whether to other denominations, or (in my case) atheism. None of us are raising our children religiously (hauling babies to church is hard!), and this rate of attrition is common amongst our extended family and all of our friends. This insanity is EXACTLY why!
Taibbi’s book is fucking great.
And sorry, but jalapeno or tomato basil “bagels” are a motherfucking abomination!! Have a sesame, poppy, garlic, or onion bagel for fuck’s sake!
I haven’t heard of this sanctity of life day…
Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Inc. (NYSE: KKD) is honoring American’s sense of pride and freedom of choice on Inauguration Day,
The fundies also know that this pride KKD talks about is code-speak for gay pride.
Sigh, remember back when the lunatic fringe was still just the fringe? I actually feel pretty deeply for anyone living a life based in such constant, abject fear. Fear of the world, fear of the Other, fear of fucking up and losing the perfect afterlife in heaven with Jesus or whatever just by eating a dougnut or being friendly with an atheist or looking too long at a lingerie catalog. What an awful, sad, small way to have to live.
And how dangerous to the rest of us, that along with their fear comes that belligerant, angry dictate to spread The Word by any means necessary. The fact that they must be pandered to by politicians is terrifying. And they’re armed. And they vote. So I guess I’m scared too, but for a different reason entirely.
I think this American Life League has defeated its own purpose. If it weren’t for them making such a big deal out of this, I wouldn’t have even known about this Krispy Kreme promo. Now I keep seeing coverage of their whining alongside pictures of donuts, and I want some fucking Krispy Kremes. Not even as a counter-statement, I just really want some delicious donuts now.
I can only hope that the Forced Birth Brigade continues to act this nutcakey.
Yeah, every time a right wing nut screams “abortion donut” another Democratic vote is won.
So keep it up, fruitcakes! The sane ran from you to vote for Obama and Democrats, and we live in hope you’ll continue your looney act for 2010 and 2012.
You know what else is an abomination? Panera’s asiago cheese bagel. But it’s a *good* abomination. Really. I’m not much of a fan of Panera, but my former office used to buy bagels from there. Most of them were bad abominations, coated with some kind of sugary crust. Disgusting. But the asiago cheese bagels are an abomination I can live with. Honestly, “different” and “inauthentic” are not necessarily bad. Although they often are, I will happily admit.
Oh, you want me to get back on topic? Fine. Be that way. I’ll try. My in-laws are nominal fundies. They recently left their church. Why? Turns out that their pastor had this guy who had some kind of child sex conviction working the youth ministry. I shit you not. When the pastor was informed of this, he said that it was nobody’s business. I shit you not again.
Mmm, glass-coated doughnuts.
Mmm, asiago bagels.
But here’s my theory on the boycotts: it’s partly about the demons getting you, but it’s also a really cheap way to feel virtuous and acquire martyr points with a minimal sacrifice of actual comfort. If you’re the kind of person who really has a principled love of hot Krispy Kremes, you’re not really cut out to be a middle-american fundie anyway—you’re too attached to the pleasures of the flesh.
I hadn’t known of the existence of jalapeno bagels until two minutes ago, and oh, how I want them…
If you’re the kind of person who really has a principled love of hot Krispy Kremes, you’re not really cut out to be a middle-american fundie anyway—you’re too attached to the pleasures of the flesh.
See, I thought that was one of the only pleasures they were allowed.
Taibbi experiments at one point by shaming his “fellow believers” when they reach for fortune cookies by claiming that he believes fortune cookies are Satanic. Sure enough, they all toss the cookies back, fearful and ashamed.
I grew up with stories like this, and since my dad was an elder in the church, we had to be super-extra-careful about that sort of thing. All you had to do to get someone to back off of a practice was evoke the ever-present demons out to get you, and you could change just about any behavior, and that’s on top of all the urban legends that swirled around about people who had fought off demonic influences--pictures that wouldn’t burn no matter how much lighter fluid you doused them with, record albums that would reappear in the house after being thrown out multiple times, you name it. And it was effective because it was used in a publicly shaming way, as a way of proving your greater holiness. I’m so glad I got out of that I cna’t begin to tell you.
Is anyone else here reminded of the Simpsons Halloween episode in which Homer sells his soul?
MMMM… Forbidden donut…
Given the whole Rachel Ray Dunkin’ Donuts keffiyeh kefuffle, and now this unholey mess, could it be that there’s a third place donut chain owned by some rightie that would benefit from boycotts of the top two?
Krispy Kreme closed the local location about two years ago ... sigh ... but there is a small local shop that makes kosher donuts and they are wayyy better than KK for the first day or so.
I think I’ll get me a Jewish donut! My choice!
KK donuts are terrible. Boycotting them is just enlightened self-interest.
I’m almost done with The Family by Jeff Sharlet. It’s a chilling examination of the secretive network of fundamentalist Christians at the reigns of power. While it’s mostly about the elites, it does delve into the populist evangelism that has arisen in places like Colorado Springs. Like Taibbi, Sharlet talks about how adherents see demonic possession all around them and view themselves as soldiers in a war for the soul of America. In the pages he devotes to the abstinence movement, he describes it as a sort of an American Christian Jihad, with the difference being that the fighters being promised their heavenly rewards on Earth - divine romances leading mindblowing marital sex - rather than the 72 virgins in heaven.
So, I’m trying to get the hang of these new-fangled expressions the kids use these days. Did the American Life League officially jump the shark on this one? Did I use that right?
Oh dear God, it just hit me. Americans don’t have Tim Horton’s. That’s why you keep talking about Krispy Kreme.
How do you COPE?
Oh, right, fundies are crazy. Yeah, grew up around some, already knew that. Now let’s get back to talking about Timmeh’s maple dip doughnuts (which are so much better than Krispy Kreme, by the way. Nationalistic pride or no, it’s just a fact).
I do think it’s kind of ironic the way this Krispy Kreme nonsense has garnered so much public attention. After all, the pro-life loons say something ridiculous and indefensible at least every other day, and the world yawns. It’s like, dismiss all women as morons who can’t make choices for themselves and need to be trapped in a second-class existence, and no one cares. But don’t you dare diss our snack foods!!!!
Did I use that right?
More or less, but I don’t think it applies to this situation. For something to jump the shark, it must have been good at one point, and then go bad (the moment it does so being the moment that it jumps the shark - a reference to a Happy Days episode where the Fonze did just that (literally), and so did the show (figuratively) ). Since the American Life League has never been anything but a bunch of loony fetus-worshippers, it’s impossible for them to jump the shark.
There’s a KK just down the highway from my house. I think I’ll pick up a dozen or two on the way down to Drinking Liberally on Tuesday.
Looks like the American Life League has just granted a whole bunch of extra publicity to Krispy Kreme’s attempt to tie itself to a president with approval ratings over 70%. Can’t imagine the people at Krispy Kreme are feeling too bad about this one.
You’re making me wish I was still in town, Dan.
Uh, raincitygirl, Americans do too have Tim Horton’s. There’s, like, six in West Virginia alone, and at least that many in Erie, PA. None south of Kentucky or west of Indiana, though . . .
Oh dear God, it just hit me. Americans don’t have Tim Horton’s. That’s why you keep talking about Krispy Kreme.
How do you COPE?
We cope by flexing our superior-nation muscles and importing your strange Canadianese ways. Next up: decent health care. Hopefully.
I loathe fundies, but I also loathe Krispy Kreme donuts, so this story is a net zero for me.
(I don’t bother to find out if I can even get decent bagels here in Nevada, because I don’t have a toaster oven and can’t get one here, because the apartment kitchen has no countertop space for one.)
Mark Foxwell on 01/17 at 03:07 PM
If you have an electric stove, and a metal coat hanger, you can get around this:
0. If there’s anything but metal on the coat hanger, get rid of it (some I’ve seen have paper pieces on the part of the coat hanger you hang pants on).
1. Bend the coat hanger so that the part you hang the clothes on looks like an oval, with the hanger hook on one end of the oval.
2. Bend the oval in half*, so that one half of the oval is approximately 2-4 inches above the other and parallel to it.
3. Test your work: Go to a burner on the electric stove to a low setting. Put the bent coat hanger on top of it and tweak it until the bottom half of the oval stands on the burner and the top half is parallel to it and approximately 4 inches above the burner. Put half a bagel (a piece of bread, english muffin, etc.) on it (the side you want to toast is down towards the burner) and verify that it will hold your toastables securely and stably.
4. Turn the burner on low. Put toastable on top rack. Adjust burner and monitor until toastable has been toasted to your satisfaction (this should get easier with experience). Please be aware that you might have to deal with a hot piece of metal and adjust your safety procedures appropriately. The hanger loop of the coat hanger should be out of the burner’s area and easier to handle (roughly equivalent to the handle of a frying pan - and you can hang your toaster up by it in an out of the way location that does not infringe on your limited kitchen space too much).
Not sure how easy this is with a gas stove, but I seem to recall in the dim recesses of my memory that it has been done. And that things get hot on gas stoves a lot quicker than they do on electric ones.
Yes, necessity is the mother of invention, and I have been a poor student who at one point was so broke that this was his toaster for the few months it took to scrape together enough out of the budget to get a frelling toaster.
* - Technically, it’s not quite half - the middle piece is vertical in between the two horizontal parts. But I don’t know quite how to describe it without resorting to downloading drawings on napkins, putting pics of them on the intertubes, and then trying to link to the picture in this comment.
I would also suggest reading Matt Taibbi’s Smells Like Dead Elephants. He is fast becoming one of my favorite political writers.
Given the whole Rachel Ray Dunkin’ Donuts keffiyeh kefuffle, and now this unholey mess, could it be that there’s a third place donut chain owned by some rightie that would benefit from boycotts of the top two?
The irony is that in 2004, I stopped buying KK *and* DD (not that I was big into donuts anyway) because they were both solidly red Republican donators. I haven’t been able to find updated information about their political leanings, but these are hardly hippe liberal companies (KK was started in North Carolina and is based in Georgia now).
Come to think about it, it’s kind of surprising that out of this
Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Inc. is honoring American’s sense of pride and freedom of choice on Inauguration Day
these monomaniacs didn’t also pick up on the word “pride.” As in, you know, Gay Pride, you know, sodomy, you know, Leviticus 19:13 19:27 18:22.
I hadn’t known of the existence of jalapeno bagels until two minutes ago, and oh, how I want them…
My first job, about 10 years back, had this little coffee shop next door.
They made these jalapeno-cheddar bagels. The cheddar was in chunks, so when they/you toasted the bagel, it started to melt and get all wonderfully gooy.
Then you put on a plain, whipped cream cheese.
“Oh dear God, it just hit me. Americans don’t have Tim Horton’s. That’s why you keep talking about Krispy Kreme.
How do you COPE?”
We don’t have Coffee Crisp either. My wife gets them sometimes when Canucks she works with bring them back…
hp:
They made these jalapeno-cheddar bagels. The cheddar was in chunks, so when they/you toasted the bagel, it started to melt and get all wonderfully gooy.
Then you put on a plain, whipped cream cheese.
You stop that right now. A friend of mine is getting married today, and I don’t want to show up at her wedding angry that I’ve never had a jalapeno-cheddar bagel.
MikeEss: have her grab some KitKats too. They’re made by different companies across the border, so it’s the difference between using Nestle milk chocolate and Hershey milk chocolate. Didn’t notice that one until I moved to the US myself.
Actually the US, or at least Maine, does have Timmy’s, but they fucked up the donuts there. =P I think they’re doign that to try and forestall the inevitable Canadian invasion.
They don’t want Krispy Kreme? Fine. MORE FOR ME.
I have been known to eat dinner at KK and then expense it, when traveling for work. I accept that I may have a problem, but I don’t care.
You can toast on a gas stove. I’ve never had a toaster since living on my own, and I regularly toasted bread and bagels in the oven. Now I have a comal - Mexican, flat, cast iron thingy for heating tortillas and making quesadillas and the like - and I use that for toasting (and for making grilled cheese without butter). The comal lives on the stove top, so it doesn’t take up any counter space.
“But here’s my theory on the boycotts: it’s partly about the demons getting you, but it’s also a really cheap way to feel virtuous and acquire martyr points with a minimal sacrifice of actual comfort.”
The flipside of that, though, is that a lot of organizations use it to basically dickwave. The Baptists and their Disney boycott or that crazy Washington-based homobigot pastor with his one-church crusade against Microsoft are two examples. Since the boycott was destined to do fuck-all--neither company had any fear of seeing their bottom lines hurt by the boycott and consequently just rolled their eyes at the boycotters--all it did was make the organizations calling for the incredibly ineffectual mass action look like laughingstocks.
You can toast on a gas stove.
Heck, you can also use an electric stove if you, like me, are cursed with one. I use my cast-iron grill pan to toast bread if I’m in the mood for it.
I also use my larger cast-iron skillet to toast bread crumbs when I make those.
Ha! That was in response to Tom above, who described in great detail how to toast on an electric stove and expressed uncertainty about whether a gas stove could also be used. It can!
But I agree with you that an electric stove is a curse.
Wow. This post is a little judgemental and I don’t like being judged by people who don’t have a clue what it’s like to walk in my shoes. Don’t try to pretend like you know me or why I’m pro-life and don’t like to eat abortion doughnuts… (Abortion, being a DISTGUSTING, vile, and bloody act of violence on our children and women’s bodies… doesn’t exactly make me hungry.)
For those of you who don’t know about the phrase “Freedom of Choice” is a bill that Obama help put together. Which will wipe out all restrictions on abortion, such as informed consent, 24hr waiting periods, parental consent… all that PROTECT women from being mislead, treated as property and dollar sign, and often protect young girls from older men abusing them and forcing them to abort when pregnant. Don’t believe me, spend some time outside of your local aboriton clinic, just observe what goes down. I spent 3 yrs, every Sat, 2-7hrs a day seeing women being treated like garbage at my local clinic and it pisses me off! I doctor there has killed four women, which includes a 17yr old and a 15yr old. No body cares… he’s so protected, as an abortionist, it’s sickening.
Also, witnessed a lot of men who wanted the abortion, not the ladies. Abortion is actually many guys’ bestfriend. They are not the ones who have to submitt their bodies, have sharp instruments shoved up their genital, and have their kids literally torn out of them… oh yeah, and there’s the occasionally “slip"… where the woman accidentally catches a glimps of her “product of conception” with his or her arms and legs all scattered about, crushed scull and all… Nice. Yep, the guy can just walk away… but it usually catches up with them too sooner or later.
What you said could be thrown right back at you, but I won’t do it because I know you are ignorant of the pro-life movement and our hearts for those who are in tough situtions and those who are currently suffering because of the choice they made when they felt trapped, pressured, afraid, and alone.
Please know that choosing an abortion because you feel you have no choice but to, which is the case for just about every woman who has an abortion, that I’ve witnessed… that is not freedom. It’s like cutting your own leg off to get out of a trap. And paying $350+ for help, is not true help. It’s nothing more than people profiting off of those who feel helpless about their situations.
I have experienced too much in my life to remain silent. I have watched my friends suffer terribly because of the “choices” they made to abort their children. I almost lost a daughter, a love dearly, because of my prior ignorance of what abortion really is and would do to my child, my body, my heart. (Planned Parenthood closed early the day I went to them for “help” and I found a Crisis Pregnancy Center instead… Praise God! They are my child’s hero! I own them big time, but they don’t want anything in return. That’s what love’s about.)
My daughter is the JOY of my world, and I am very insulted that people think that my choice to kill my woman-child is freedom. If you only knew her… Her love has changed my life and my heart. I truly now see just how evil abortion is. It pits mothers against their very own children, the most sacred bond on earth is destroyed! Kids aren’t supposed to die for their parents. Parents die for their kids, and after giving her a chance and getting to know her… I’m willing to die for her if I have to. When pregnant and wanting abortion, I thought I knew what she was going to do to my life, ruin it. Instead, she’s given me life.
There will never be peace, when we sacrifice and turn on our own flesh and blood.
Going to add this also, don’t mind typos in either post… I’m in a hurry and I’m not double checking.
Peace,
Jen
Abortion is a woman’s issue? Abortion empowers women? Abortion makes women free, no longer a piece of property?
That’s a bunch of crap! History has a way of repeating its self…better take a history lesson. The founding feminists, the ones who fought for our right to vote and to own property where actually very anti-abortion as well. And fought to make abortion illegal. They claimed abortion was a man’s was of exploiting a woman, and that abortion was a disgrace because it treated their offspring like property.
And low and behold, 100 years later, those dirty deviled men are at it again… pressuring and forcing women all across the USA to abort their kids so they don’t have to provide for them and their mothers. Ever heard of Tom Likus’s “Hail Mary Approach” ? Happens all the time. Men exploits women through abortion.
Susan B. Anthony
In her publication The Revolution, she wrote:
“Guilty? Yes. No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; But oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime!”
Abortion was referred to as “child murder.”
The Revolution, 4(1):4 July 8, 1869
Elizabeth Cady Stanton wrote:
The Revolution, 1(5):1, February 5, 1868
“When we consider that women are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit.”
Emma Goldman
“The custom of procuring abortions has reached such appalling proportions in America as to be beyond belief…So great is the misery of the working classes that seventeen abortions are committed in every one hundred pregnancies.”
Mother Earth, 1911
Mattie Brinkerhoff
“When a man steals to satisfy hunger, we may safely conclude that there is something wrong in society - so when a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is an evidence that either by education or circumstances she has been greatly wronged.”
The Revolution, 4(9):138-9 September 2, 1869
Victoria Woodhull
The first female presidential candidate was a strong opponent of abortion.
“The rights of children as individuals begin while yet they remain the foetus.”
Woodhull’s and Claflin’s Weekly 2(6):4 December 24, 1870
“Every woman knows that if she were free, she would never bear an unwished-for child, nor think of murdering one before its birth.”
Wheeling, West Virginia Evening Standard, November 17, 1875
Sarah Norton
“Child murderers practice their profession without let or hindrance, and open infant butcheries unquestioned…Is there no remedy for all this ante-natal child murder?…Perhaps there will come a time when…an unmarried mother will not be despised because of her motherhood…and when the right of the unborn to be born will not be denied or interfered with.”
Woodhull’s and Claffin’s Weekly, November 19, 1870
Mary Wollstonecraft
As early as 1792, Mary Wollstonecraft wrote “A Vindication of the Rights of Women,” which Susan B. Anthony admired enough to serialize in The Revolution. After decrying, in scathing 18th century terms, the sexual exploitation of women, she said:
“Women becoming, consequently, weaker…than they ought to be…have not sufficient strength to discharge the first duty of a mother; and sacrificing to lasciviousness the parental affection…either destroy the embryo in the womb, or cast if off when born. Nature in every thing demands respect, and those who violate her laws seldom violate them with impunity.”
Matilda Gage
“[This] subject lies deeper down in woman’s wrongs than any other…I hesitate not to assert that most of [the responsibility for] this crime lies at the door of the male sex.”
The Revolution, 1(14):215-6 April 9, 1868
Alice Paul
The author of the original Equal Rights Amendment (1923) opposed the later trend of linking the E.R.A. with abortion. A colleague recalls her saying:
“Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women.”
I still prefer tempura fetus to abortion donuts.
Wowza, the wingnuts have to be having a slow outrage day if this post gets a troll.
I am very relieved to hear that the USA has a *few* Tim Horton’s outlets. Apparently all hope is not lost. The fact that you guys don’t have Smarties, however, continues to sadden me.
Jenni, would you like a Tim Horton’s doughnut? It’s Canadian, from a country which has no laws whatsoever governing abortion and hasn’t for a good two decades now. Also: socialised medicine, weird spelling, hockey, and a parliamentary political system in which nobody ever votes directly for their head of government.
The founding feminists, the ones who fought for our right to vote and to own property where actually very anti-abortion as well.
Jenni, you have a lot of quotes, but you clearly have absolutely no idea what context those statements were made in. For one, there was no modern concept of “pro-life” as in the fetus deserving its own life. Birth control was illegal. If you were pregnant and couldn’t afford a child, there were two options open to you: abortion or suicide. A lot of women chose suicide, as Margaret Sanger related.
For another, those statements were made in the pre-antibiotic days. Before antibiotics—which were only discovered about 70 years ago—it was quite likely that an abortion would lead to the woman’s death from infection, because there was no way to prevent infections like we can today.
Most professions were closed to women. If you were even lucky enough to have a job as a schoolteacher or secretary, you would be fired immediately if your employer found out you were pregnant, and this attitude continued well into the 1960s, if not the 1970s. Your only recourse was to depend on the father of your child to support you financially, or to become a prostitute. That’s why Mary Wollstonecraft called marriage “legalized prostitution.” (You knew she was anti-marriage, right?)
It’s very sad to me that you want to return to the days when you were completely dependent on the whims of your husband, who quite literally owned you and everything around you, including your clothing. If you worked, any income you made legally belonged to your husband, not to you. If you inherited money from a relative, it went to your husband, not to you.
You might want to read up on the case of Caroline Norton so you can begin to understand why those early feminists spoke about abortion as yet another way men forced women to subjugate themselves to daily humiliations. Until she began her court battles, a husband could take a child of ANY AGE away from its mother and deny her permission to see her own child.
And yet, to you, those are the good ol’ days that we need to return to, even though all of the quotes you have are from women who fought against the very thing you’re trying to bring back.
<blockquote>I am very relieved to hear that the USA has a *few* Tim Horton’s outlets. Apparently all hope is not lost. The fact that you guys don’t have Smarties, however, continues to sadden me. <blockquote>
You mean these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarties_(Nestlé)
For a second, I thought “Hey, we already beat you to it!”. But guess not. But you know, I really, really want some M&Ms;now.
don’t like to eat abortion doughnuts
First off, they’re not abortion donuts, they’re an-attempt-to-cash-in-on-inauguration donuts. You can eat the donuts without fear of supporting the murder of innocent babies, it’s OK.
Secondly, thanks for letting me know about the Freedom of Choice act. It makes me a little less embarrassed about my participation in the nationwide crush on Barack Obama. Congratulations on loving your child, now would you like to calm down and have us explain, for the Nth time, how many ideas we have to support women who, like you, would probably not choose abortion if they felt they didn’t have to? Some women will chose it anyway, but that’s their choice, not yours.
“Americans don’t have Tim Horton’s.”
Oh yes we do. Tragically, there the multiply like tribbles in New York state. It’s the worst coffee in the world and yet people buy it. The primary ingredient must be something illegally addictive.
“My daughter is the JOY of my world, and I am very insulted that people think that my choice to kill my woman-child is freedom. “
This makes absolutely no sense. But, it does prove something I’ve assumed for a long time, that the Misogynstic Forced Birth people aren’t thinking at all about what they are advocating, they’re reacting emotionally to what they THINK pro-choice people are advocating.
Jenni, it’s great that you had the FREEDOM TO CHOSE to have your daughter. Now, kindly afford the same freedom to other women and stop the obvious lies. kthxbai.
The Domino’s Pizza by me is offering an Inauguration Tuesday 2 Large Pizzas for the Price of 1 deal. I think they’re endorsing group sex.
The Domino’s Pizza by me is offering an Inauguration Tuesday 2 Large Pizzas for the Price of 1 deal. I think they’re endorsing group sex.
Just hope it doesn’t involve the pizzas people are ordering!
Yeah, well, Gypsy, I don’t drink their coffee, because I’m not a coffee drinker. But their doughnuts: awesome!
However, Someone upthread said that she’d been to Timmeh’s outlets in both the US and Canada, and thought the donuts baked in the US were distinctly inferior to the doughnuts baked in Canada.
“But their doughnuts: awesome! “
Ive found this to be true, north of the border. The ones in WNY, eh. Of course, that was several years ago when I lived there. POssible they’ve improved since then.
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I am absolutely furious about that santicity of life day thing, not only because its the antithesis of everything I believe, but because its my birthday!. Yes, the chimperor has picked my fucking birthday to push anti-choice agendas down america’s collective throats! Gah!