Mother Avenger wouldn’t be surprised by this, as she used to point out people who had gone to college(she only attended a community college before she married Prof Avenger), had gotten their degree, and were ‘dumb shits’ nevertheless.

This is like moving quickly to get out of the crosswalk at a yellow light, only to discover that a bus with no brakes was about to hurtle through the intersection anyway.

We dodged a big one.

It makes me proud to think that, finally, our country looked at the no-brains fanatic trying to ascend to power and said “Yeah… no.”

I don’t believe the worst of the stories about her ignorance, since the GOP is well into blame-the-woman mode.  But man, when you’re enough of a dumbshit that the Republican Party is dismayed at you…that’s really something.  Really, really something.

That report should expunge “knowledgability” from his lexicon.

Over at Red State, they’ve begun “Operation Leper” in an attempt to purge the party of those who did not stand with Palin, and are now tarnishing her good name. They’ve really decided that Palin is the hill they’re willing to die on.

The election is over, and soon these miserable 8 years of ignorance, fantasy, greed, and incompetence in the White House will be over, too. But we must never let Americans forget how rock-bottom low the standards of the modern conservative movement are.

I was less impressed with the ignorance (and as killjoy says, they’re likely to be bringing up every stupid little question now) but found the temperament issues to be verrrrry eeeenteresting.

Throwing tantrums over bad press? Refusing interview prep, and then lashing out at the people who had offered it? Was one of her qualifications having the same kind of nasty temper as McCain, or what?

Palin is learning a very hard lesson about women and pedestals.

But we need to be very suspicious whenever the right wing starts honking and trying to create an alternative narrative for Palin. As we speak, Alaska has some pretty suspicious stuff going on with ballot purging. The “Palin’s so dumb she doesn’t know Africa is a continent” conversation seems to me to be a little too “hey, look over there a minute!” for me.

I don’t really care about the towel/robe story, but the other stuff…. oh please, please, let someone write a book!

Over at Red State, they’ve begun “Operation Leper” in an attempt to purge the party of those who did not stand with Palin, and are now tarnishing her good name. They’ve really decided that Palin is the hill they’re willing to die on.

We should call them the New Red Guard.

The first wave to call themselves “Red Guards” in China were a group of students at the Tsinghua University Middle School who used the name Red Guards to sign two big-character posters issued on 29 May and 2 June 1966. The students believed that the criticism of the play Hai Rui Dismissed from Office was a political issue and needed greater attention. The group of students, led by Zhang Chengzhi and Nie Yuanzi, originally wrote the posters as a constructive criticism towards Tsinghua University’s administration, which was accused of harboring “intellectual elitism” and “bourgeois”.

I knew as soon as she ceased to be useful the GOP would bring out the long knives and purge her. Notice we are hearing about this from freaking FOX News, after all!

Hmmm… doesn’t quite sound like the Repubes plan to rally around Palin for her supposed possible 2012 run. She’s got a scarlet letter carved on her cheek!

Aah, of course! The bimbo shopaholic is the reason they lost. Not their policies, not the bad campaign, not the bigotry. The bimbo.

Looks like the Republican feminist brouhaha was short lived…quelle surprise!

So why the HELL did McCain pick her?  I think Palin is the worst person ever, but for chrissakes, she didn’t force herself onto the ticket.  She was invited, which was stupid and reckless and terrifying, and she accepted, which was stupid and reckless and evidence of her overinflated ego and delusional thinking.  That such a mess of a person was asked to be VP reflects poorly on McCain and his campaign than it does on anything else.

So why the HELL did McCain pick her?

Because his people knew he had no chance of winning, and decided they had nothing to lose. As it turned out, they were right. No wonder they’re pissed. They lowered themselves to pick a woman, because that’s what you have to do these days, and look what it got them. What do you people want from them?

This video and all the Palin backstabbing makes me sick.  It makes me hate those engaging in it much more than it makes me hate Palin (I already do).

I’m still floored by the pick of Palin to this very day. It’s like the Republicans saw someone who would nullify every attack they could use against Obama, because she had the same weaknesses—only hers were REAL, not fabricated strawmen. Think about all they attacked Obama on—celebrity, inexperience, over-ambition, weird preachers, radical associations. She had every single one of those weaknesses for real, plus Biden’s tendency to run off at the mouth times a million!

WHY the hell did they pick someone like that?

The more I learn about the details behind the scenes, the more I’m convinced that this entire campaign was designed to sabotage McCain in some way (ok, not really, but it sure looks that way). Every time they were given a choice between doing something right and doing it wrong, they invariably chose the incorrect option.

Over at Red State, they’ve begun “Operation Leper” in an attempt to purge the party of those who did not stand with Palin, and are now tarnishing her good name. They’ve really decided that Palin is the hill they’re willing to die on.

It’s better than throwing her under the bus for the failure of her advisors and sycophants.

Those assholes can play the blame game all they want, but somebody, somewhere, picked that woman – because she’s pretty, and pro-life, and a mother of five, and Republican, as opposed to well-read and aware of what’s going on around her.

Ten minutes of vetting told the McCain team all they needed to know about Palin. If they’d won, she’d be hailed as their secret weapon. Since they lost, she’s an easy, convenient scapegoat. The cynic in me thinks that was their plan all along – a “gamble” that paid off either way. 

Their only mistake – or at least the only mistake they’ll ever come close to admitting – is they assumed, incorrectly, that stupidity equals tractability. They thought they could control Palin, but her ambition – the very reason she accepted their once-in-a-lifetime offer - was greater than they expected.

Now that Palin is not in a position to hurt hundreds of millions of people with her ignorance – and this is assuming all those stories about her are true – I tend to feel a bit sorry for her.

Ben D, I heard someone theorize (a conspiracy theorist, you might say) that she was picked to demonstrate how ludicrous they found Obama’s candidacy.  I don’t really buy that, per se, as I don’t understand how that would work either for or against them.  But it is really strange that for every non-issue on which they criticized Obama, Palin exhibited ten-fold.

SarahMC, remember that all this stuff came out after she landed in the national spotlight. If you look at old videos of her doing political stuff in Alaska, she comes off as extremely presentable. (A friend who saw her address Bouchercon in Anchorage last year said she was great—funny, knew the right gossip, dropped the right names. And mystery writers aren’t exactly her core constituency.)

Obviously, the Rs should have done their homework, but, judging by Palin and Bush, that’s not really something Republicans do. (They’re like that line about the Bourbons of France: They learn nothing and they forget nothing. Of course, that was before they all got beheaded.) Knowing what they knew at the time, Palin must have seemed like a great choice.

Your precious Oblammo is going to be forced to have Sarah Palin in his cabinet, due to the overwhelming feelins of positivitivity towards her by the American people of the USA of America.  She will make a brilliant Secretary of State because she can see so many countries from her house and can also monitor Putin rearing his ugly head.  She can also lead the fight for Preperation 8 all over the country so that we can keep the gay at bay (our worstest enemies are internal) and can stimulate the economy by shopping for new clothes.  Get over it Commies, YOU LOST!!!1!!1!!

I’m with Ginger and killjoy and Sarah and Ben and Mighty Ponygirl on this. Don’t get me wrong. I found her scary and unimpressive in so many ways. As inclined as I am to believe any bad thing you hear about her, I am suspicious of attempts to pin the defeat on Palin. And to the extent it is her fault, it’s still actually McCain’s fault.

Even more than it being McCain’s fault, it is the fault of Bush, Cheney, and Rove.

You can almost kind of say McCain got defeated by Bush two times.

But still, Molly NYC, that is an indictment of McCain, his campaign, and the Republican party, not Sarah Palin herself.  And yet here they are, pretending they lost all because of this stupid, selfish, slut.

I blame the McCain campaign for bringing her on board, but I have not one ounce of pity for Sarah Palin.

Exactly. I love a snake fight!

Amanda, don’t you think I know that?  I never said I felt pity for her, and I don’t.  But the behavior of the GOP right now still makes me sick.  They are not mutually exclusive feelings.

I do hope the party goes up in flames.

Did Palin look stunned on Tuesday night or what?  It’s like she really believed “god” would deliver victory for them.

I guess I don’t understand.  Why burn her now instead of setting her up for some kind of national stage either as ‘Series of Tubes” Stevens replacement or as another run for some place in the White House in 4 years.  Isn’t this shooting a hole in the bucket before you fill it with fish?  Or do the Republicans also just hate her and want her to go away?

Sarah, noticed that too.

McCain seemed much more accepting, like he expected it to happen. He was classy (for the first time in months), but my God, what a classless crowd!

Add me to the guest list at the no-pity party.  The sense of reverse noblisse oblige she displayed (treating the treasury of Alaska as her own personal piggybank, the ongoing shopping-spree debacle) is simply breathtaking.  Anyone with a sense of entitlement so vastly disproportionate to their actual accomplishments is really odious to me (see Bush, George W.).  Yes the Republicans are sexists, but she USED that sexism to her own advantage.  Talk about the “soft bigotry of low expectations”....

“Or do the Republicans also just hate her and want her to go away?”

One faction of Republicans is against her. The Republican party was long ago infiltrated by the fundies. It was the fundies that wanted Palin. The other Republicans who have long used the fundies to get both votes and money are now finding out the fundies want more.

It’s why a number of conservatives voted for Obama. They are sick of what the Republican party has become of course it only took thirty years for them to see it.

Also the reports on the Palin mishaps were kept quiet by the reporters embedded in the campaign. If this stuff had come out the damage to the Republican party would have been devasating. More conservatives would have either not voted or voted for Obama.

Why did McCain pick Palin for the VP slot?

Because he didn’t know about Joe the Plumber before the convention, of course!

And I’m not really sure that it was a mistake. Sure, McCain lost.  But considering what a crappy ground campaign he ran, considering how well Bush and the GOP were regarded, how the GOP base was demoralized and didn’t really warm to McCain, considering McCains antics during the financial crises, and considering either the lack of McCain policies, or their utter incoherence, it’s a miracle that McCain won more 10 electoral votes.

Either that, or 45% of the voting public is looking for another tax-cut, so they can pay for that second lobotomy.

We’ll never know: would McCain have done better with Joe the Lieberman?  Bozo the Clown?  Peewee Herman?

But we can certainly enjoy as the GOP forms up into a circular firing squad, as only experienced players of a game can appreciate the subtle nuances when in the audience.

I knew all along that the supposed “feminism” of the right wing was a fallacy, but all this blaming of Palin and the pettiness of it all sealed it for me. I’m not surprised she’s the right’s scapegoat, and I do agree that her lack of knowledge and lack of curiosity turned lots of voters off, but the blame for the failed campaign falls on primarily on McCain’s shoulders. He vetted her, after all.

I don’t believe the Africa story without more evidence.  It could be true, certainly, but we do not have disinterested testimony from sources with a reputation for truthfulness.

I also doubt she’ll make her big comeback in 2012. While we’ll probably hear more from her - from the far right wing Christofascists - I don’t think she’ll gain any real ground, especially now that she’s being slammed down as a Shopping Diva. Typical sexist garbage.

As for her not knowing that Africa is a continent and not a country, I am not really that surprised.  The number of Americans who think that just blows my mind.  And if you run on a platform of “golly-gee I’m just folks and I don’t need any special knowledge that Joe the Plumber doesn’t have” then there is very little motivation to learn these annoying details, like the fact that Africa is a huge place with dozens of countries.

It is exactly why that type of folksy-ism is not just obnoxious but completely dangerous.

The Countess, also, in 2012 she’ll be nearly 50 (quelle horreur!), and I suspect that for her fanboys the bloom will be off the rose by then.

I had two reactions to the towel-in-the-hotel story (appearing in her hotel room wearing only a towel and talking to a couple senior campaign managers), which were that she knew exactly what she was doing when she did that; and also that she’s really lucky that there were no low-level Republican functionaries in the room with cameraphones or she would have been on the Internet in about 18 seconds.

Gee, does this mean she wont be the GOPs shining star in 2012?

Well at least if it was her we would know who we were up against. Not that it matters much since the USA is seeing how out of touch with reality the Repub party is.

The same set of McCain people lied about pretty much everything up till now, so there’s really no reason to think they’ve suddenly changed to telling the truth. And they have much better address books, so they can get their versions of what happened out the in a way that the palinoids can’t, at least for the time being. So who knows.

On the other hand, who cares—as people have said, Palin being an ignorant wingut hillbilly (and that being a bad thing) is just as thorough an indictment of McCain and his advisors (not to mention of the religious right who ostensibly forced him to it) as it would be had they done this on purpose.

Whatever comes out, I predict that it will have a serious negative effect on the leadership prospects of women in the post-bush republican party. “We tried running a woman and she got us massacred” will be a wonderfully believable line for all those old white guys and OWG’s in training.

The part that I don’t believe is that she refused interview prep. Everything from the Couric interview just screamed that she was over-prepped with catch phrases and talking points, without her having the underlying knowledge base to make sense of it and put the words in the right order. Without prep, she would have been equally ignorant but probably more coherent (as she was in the Gibson interview). Again, I’m not defending her. I just think some of these accusations are not plausible on their face.

And if every word of it is true, it still speaks poorly of McCain and his people. They apparently picked someone they knew nothing about and/or who they had a very low opinion of, both personally and politically. Strange way to run a campaign.

SarahMC, remember that all this stuff came out after she landed in the national spotlight. If you look at old videos of her doing political stuff in Alaska, she comes off as extremely presentable. (A friend who saw her address Bouchercon in Anchorage last year said she was great—funny, knew the right gossip, dropped the right names. And mystery writers aren’t exactly her core constituency.)

Yeah, that’s the sort of thing that puzzles me as well. I expected more THAT type of politician. And I expected a more intelligent McCain to campaign. (And I remember the change in Bob Dole in 1996).

What is it about stepping into a Presidential race that drops everyone’s IQ 30 or 40 points? (A

So why the HELL did McCain pick her?

He had no choice. Bill Kristol gave him the coup de grace of all dares, the sinister triple-dog-dare.

The part that I don’t believe is that she refused interview prep. Everything from the Couric interview just screamed that she was over-prepped with catch phrases and talking points,

I actually feel sympathy for Palin here. All that the coaching and cramming did was take a natural politician and make her look like an idiot. She needed months to prepare instead of days. Trusting her instincts—which had served her well up to that point—made more sense than drinking from the facts and info fire hose.

This doesn’t negate her demonstrated meanness, pettiness, and vindictiveness, however.

With all due respect to Jonah Goldberg (in other words, none), this is one of the big ways conservatives overlap with fascists, when they think that commitment to the cause is superior to thinking.  That’s why it’s call Triumph of the WILL.

It’s certainly not restricted to the right—we have plenty of examples of magical thinking from the left as well (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot).  It’s more of a totalitarian idea than a specifically right/left idea.

The fact that modern Republicans think totalitarianism is A-OK as long as you wrap it in an American flag is the real problem.

Quote: “I’m with Timothy—-just as disturbing is the fact that Bill O’Reilly thinks “cramming” was an acceptable substitute for knowing before you get nominated.”

I agree. Apparently being able to regurgitate stuff undigested—preferably while screaming right wing catch phrases—is a fine substitute for actually knowing things and having spent time thinking, considering, analyzing, working out a coherent approach or world view, etc.

Stunning.

Add me to the “No Sympathy For Moosilini” list. Yes, Palin’s spectacular crash-and-burn can ultimately be placed at McCain’s feet for choosing such an obviously unqualified lightweight as a running mate; He should have known she’d be a disaster. But Caribou Barbie still agreed to go along with it all, no? Her greed and ambition got the better of her. It’s difficult to feel any sympathy or pity over that.

From the beginning, she struck me as a small-time grifter who’d done pretty well in her own tiny little pond of corruption, but who was patently unfit for the larger political world…unfortunately for our Sarah, her massive Ego wouldn’t allow such simple common sense-based facts to penetrate that thick skull of hers’, and so when McStain stepped in with his offer of the Brass Ring, she decided to throw caution to the winds & go for it. Any reasonably intelligent political operative - even one who’s completely venal, crooked and corrupt - would have some inkling of their own limits, and Palin obviously didn’t. Too bad…for her.

I can’t help but think of Head of State, that Chris Rock movie. The premise is that they know they can’t win, so why not use someone who can’t win, but will look good. That’s been my impression of Palin for a while now. If you’re going to take a dive, why not throw someone out there that’ll look good? Of course, maybe I’m giving the republicans too much credit, and they really thought she’d nullify the “first” that Obama had going for him with their own “first.”

You said O’Reilly and crammng in the same sentence.  (hurls)

“As for her not knowing that Africa is a continent and not a country, I am not really that surprised.  The number of Americans who think that just blows my mind”

Not that it’s confined to Americans—I’m British, and I once had to tell a couple of housemates that. Neither of them were campaigning to be Deputy Prime Minister, of course.

James—a lot of people make the “The country of Africa” slip-ups, but there’s something different between slipping up and saying “the country of Africa” and not knowing that Africa is a continent.

For example:
Me: “I’d really like to visit the country of Africa”
You: “You mean ... the continent of Africa?”
Me: “Uh… yeah. Whoops. I think I’ll have another beer.”

or
Me: “I’m writing a letter to the president of Africa.”
You: “What do you mean, the president of Africa. Africa’s a continent, not a country. It’s got a lot of presidents.”
Me: “It is?!”

Your precious Oblammo is going to be forced to have Sarah Palin in his cabinet, due to the overwhelming feelins of positivitivity towards her by the American people of the USA of America.

Ambassador to Somalia isn’t a cabinet position, RiM.

In American, you choose Vice President.  In Russia, Vice President choose you!

In American, Vice President chooses *self*!

Cf Dick Chaney…

Mighty Ponygirl—it was along the lines of the latter. Though in slight mitigation, I think they were thinking one big country along the lines of China.

“So why the HELL did McCain pick her?

He had no choice. Bill Kristol gave him the coup de grace of all dares, the sinister triple-dog-dare.”

There are so many other qualified women in the republican party.  Olympia Snow, Liddy Dole (who’s looking for a new job anyways), Susan Collins, Kay Bailey Hutchinson are just a couple of women Senators.  If he just needed a woman why not choose one that knows the game?

Jeb Bush?  Oh, would that it were so. Talk about unelectable. There is no way the country will elect another Bush.

One of the errors that the Republicans made this time (of many!) was taking for granted 4 years ago that Hillary Clinton was the inevitable candidate, and focusing all their energy on prepping to run against here, sharpening their axes with their own drool at the prospects.

They didn’t even notice Obama until his momentum was solidly started.

We need to avoid that mistake, whether it is about Romney, Palin, or Bush (or anyone else.)

pure, honest ambition is a good thing. see: barack obama. mooselini’s problem is hubris: she’s just a raging egomaniac.

I blame the McCain campaign for bringing her on board, but I have not one ounce of pity for Sarah Palin.

How sure are we that this was really wholly McCain’s or even his campaign’s decision? Has anyone considered the possibility that Gov. Palin’s pick was more the result of the Christian Right’s twisting the arms of the RNC and they, in turn, twisted the arms of McCain and his campaign?

Not to say McCain and his campaign is absolved of their responsibility as they did go along with it…but that the RNC and especially the Christian Right faction within the GOP bears a lot of the blame….

Anyone calling this “woman-blaming” is a fucking idiot. Palin had it coming by all accounts.

” If he just needed a woman why not choose one that knows the game?”

Word was that Condi Rice was up but the lesbian rumours quashed it. Add in that she is other people and you got the Religious Right refusing to support McCain.

Dole might be unelectable now. She got toxic due to her attack ads.

So much for “Country First.”  McCain is 72 years old (two years older than his father was when he died of a heart attack), and has reportedly survived (so far) four bouts with malignant melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer.  He nonetheless chose to place, a heartbeat away from his hoped-for presidency, a right-wing crackpot who makes Dubya look like a rocket scientist by comparison.  The man is an utter disgrace.

It seems to me that the conservatives of today have been relying upon the phenomenon known as projective identification.  Actually, this psychological phenomenon pervades society and human relations, so it is not surprising that has some place in politics most of the time. However, conservatives are extreme these days because they have seemed to make their bid for power on nothing but the efficacy of this phenomenon (and their capacity to manipulate it). 

Projective identification involves the splitting of the psyche, such that good and bad are projected into different poles of value.  Either I keep all the good qualities for myself, and project my bad qualities onto you, or I keep all the bad aspects and project the good ones onto you.  In hierarchical societies that are dominated by authoritarian thinking, we tend to see that the hoi polloi project all sorts of positive aspects onto their leaders, whilst being pretty negative and down about themselves.  (Self-hatred may be the hidden aspect that drives all sorts of right wing agendas.) 

So, if the great leader is simply able to acquire all sorts of positive attributes by virtue of her success in attaining power, she does not need to actually have them in a substantial sense. Rather, she has them in the sense that the ideals of competence, knowledge, morality, and so on, are projected onto her.

Fox News wasn’t a reliable source of information 3 days ago, they remain unreliable.

There is no question Palin is dumb, but this is clearly a case of the Republican party attempting to avoid responsibility yet again. Their campaign was terrible - not because they are consistently wrong, but strategically and tactically so. In order to side step the blame they must find a scape goat. Palin is not only the obvious choice, but she is a woman and that fits nicely into the foundation of their belief system. The strong, tested, heroic man didn’t screw up: it was the inexperienced stupid woman. Nonsense.

I should say “not because they are consistently wrong, though they are”.

While I’m sure all this is just people trying to save their own necks by pointing the finger elsewhere, how dysfunctional must the McCain campaign have been to hav this start the day after the election?

In any normal situation you wouldn’t start to see this stuff come out for 3-6 months.

Has anyone considered the possibility that Gov. Palin’s pick was more the result of the Christian Right’s twisting the arms of the RNC and they, in turn, twisted the arms of McCain and his campaign?

I recall the New York Times reporting that this was the case; McCain wanted Liebermann, but the fringe howled for Palin.

How sure are we that this was really wholly McCain’s or even his campaign’s decision? Has anyone considered the possibility that Gov. Palin’s pick was more the result of the Christian Right’s twisting the arms of the RNC and they, in turn, twisted the arms of McCain and his campaign?

Not to say McCain and his campaign is absolved of their responsibility as they did go along with it…but that the RNC and especially the Christian Right faction within the GOP bears a lot of the blame….

This is why I’m just waiting for the religious right to pull a sort of Dixiecrat-like split from the Republicans, hopefully when the Repubs drop a really dumb part of their platform like abstinence-only ed or opposition to birth control. McCain’s choice of a crazy religious person, instead of someone who was actually qualified, may have cost him the election, and we’ve seen that even some religious people now are voting in their economic interests instead of their social interests.

Oh, and whoever said Jeb: Uh-uh, not happening. Like Lymis said, no one will elect a Bush again.

I bet no one is more pissed at George W. Bush than Jeb Bush. W. ruined his brothers once bright political future.

Sarah Palin is not dumb. You don’t get to be a Governor while being dumb. And there’s a difference between not having any pity and piling on.

I disagree with Sarah Palin on just about everything. I’d especially like her to stop mistaking benefiting from feminism for being a feminist herself. But I don’t disagree with her any more than I did with say Ronald Reagan. And we don’t talk about Reagan as being dumb.

And nobody but nobody talks about how much Obama’s suits may have cost.

McCain and Palin lost. That’s their punishment.

And there’s such a thing as being gracious in victory.

But I don’t disagree with her any more than I did with say Ronald Reagan. And we don’t talk about Reagan as being dumb.

On the other hand, Reagan probably understood what the office of President entailed when he applied for it. I also suspect he could name more than on Supreme Court case and knew that Africa was a continent.

Max Weber characterized this kind of leadership as charismatic:

Characteristics

In his writings about charismatic authority, Weber applies the term charisma to “a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which he is set apart from ordinary men and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader [...] How the quality in question would be ultimately judged from an ethical, aesthetic, or other such point of view is naturally indifferent for the purpose of definition.”[1]

And nobody but nobody talks about how much Obama’s suits may have cost.

From what I understand, Obama and Biden wore their own clothes during the campaign.  So, not an issue.  Palin spent campaign money—and the donors were not pleased.

For what it’s worth, she’s now claiming that the clothes remain the property of the RNC, just like other crap purchased during the campaign.  We’ll see, I suppose.

Reagan was pretty dumb.  And GWB is pretty dumb.  Whether they were/are as dumb as they sometimes appear to be is up for debate.  It’s often useful to be underestimated.  Palin isn’t especially dumb, but like them she’s not as smart as she thinks she is.

“And nobody but nobody talks about how much Obama’s suits may have cost. “

I think they were 1400 dollar suits and his wife had to have him buy them. So yeah it was talked about but it was decided to be a nonissue since well it was his own money that went to the clothes.

Not a donor’s or staffers or the campaigns money that bought multiple sizes of the same items for an entire group of people.

And nobody but nobody talks about how much Obama’s suits may have cost.

Nobody talked about how much George Bush’s suits cost, either, and he was paying up to $14,000 per.

But, then, Bush didn’t spend funds from the Republican National Committee to buy his suits.  He paid for them himself.  Which is what the issue is with Palin.

Just like to point out that a lot of what’s being said here about Palin depends upon hearsay from Republican hacks with axes to grind and blame to deflect.

Why are we so willing to believe it?

It just strikes me as pretty incredible that she didn’t know Africa was a continent. And the left calling him “dumb” over and over again didn’t stop Bush 43 from getting quasi-elected twice.

As a side note, I come from a country that kept a decent, center-left Prime Minister in office for ten years who managed to be completely unintelligible in TWO official languages!

I think this is indicative of a rift in the Rethug party, though I don’t think either side is particularly pleasant.  If you listen to the whole towel story which just seems gratuitious, Palin had the aides talk to the “First Dude” and afterwards they joked about “the Eskimo” and how uncomfortable their conversation was because he’s dumb.  Clearly they’re now making her out to be an ignorant redneck grifter rather than admit that their own ideas and failed policies led to their loss.  The GOP is a coalition of the obscenely wealthy and the social conservatives and sometimes those rifts become evident—just as they brought Palin on as a token without really respecting her it’s clear that the richy-rich branch of the GOP also has disdain for the wacko social conservatives but understands they need to pander to them for the votes.  I’d be glad to see both sides tear each other apart but the social conservatives are not the only evil bastards in the party.

No matter what I think the real assholes are the McCain campaign.  Not only did they pick her without vetting her but they also knew how painfully ignorant she was and still were willing to try to get her elected and within a 72-year-old heartbeat away from the presidency.  Country first my ass.

I think Rugged in Montana is my favorite troll (at least lately).

Why are we so willing to believe it?

I don’t particularly believe the “Africa is a country” story, but are you arguing that the $150,000 of RNC money spent on clothes for Palin and her family is not true?  Because the RNC and the McCain campaign both confirmed it.

Also, the skills needed to be a politician in a small, homogeneous state are not even close to the skills needed to be a national politician.  Palin is not the only person to find that out, she’s just the most recent.  Rudy Giuliani discovered the same thing this summer.

It just strikes me as pretty incredible that she didn’t know Africa was a continent.

Considering I’ve met plenty of fellow Americans, whether rural or urban…..college educated or not who didn’t know that either…....she’s far from the only one.  Those Americans, however, are not running for the second highest office of the land.

Yeah, ol RiM finally found the fine line to tread and does it howlingly well.  (Mind you, s/he’s a ‘parody troll’, not a “real” troll.)  And the acronym is hilarious too.

Now, Andrew seems a little in thrall to the Dark Side: the line about BHO’s suits was just…what? draggin’ some bait?  trailing a coat?  red herring?  What’s the proper folksy metaphor?

Not quite a false equivalence…. anyway, nobody brings it up, cuz there’s nothing there to bring up.

To add to my last post, I have a friend who worked in an office where one college-educated supervisor did not realize the significance of her being compared to Joseph Stalin by a co-worker, thought he was a client, and proceeded to order the entire office to search the office client database for his name.  On another occasion, the same supervisor overheard a conversation about Ho Chi Minh between the friend and a co-worker who was a Vietnam War vet and proceeded to ask how was the food there as she thought Ho Chi Minh was the name of a Chinese restaurant. 

Hence…..mindboggling ignorance from fellow Americans…..even supposedly well-educated ones does not surprise me at all.

Has anybody posted about how DIFFICULT it will be to live up to President Obama’s stated wish that we be less divisive, more mature, and, in short, less snarky?  When in reality I think most here would like to dance on the hood of Republican cars in hobnail boots, flipping the double-bird to the occupants, and screaming “Suck these, assholes!”

I mean,—it’s gonna be tough.

I don’t know why we’re giving a podium to these guys to trash themselves and a woman.

To blame her as if they were any different…

When in reality I think most here would like to dance on the hood of Republican cars in hobnail boots, flipping the double-bird to the occupants, and screaming “Suck these, assholes!”

Actually, what I’m tempted to do is get a t-shirt with Obama’s logo on the front and have “McCain Lost.  Get Over It.” on the back, in honor of all of the assholes who kept telling us to “get over it” in 2000.  Hobnail boot dancing is just too strenuous for me.

Actually, what I’m tempted to do is get a t-shirt with Obama’s logo on the front and have “McCain Lost.  Get Over It.” on the back, in honor of all of the assholes who kept telling us to “get over it” in 2000.  Hobnail boot dancing is just too strenuous for me.

If I was still living in Northern Ohio, I’d agree.  Just not as worth it as much when Obama supporters are the majority in Boston and NYC.  It would also not be as sporting in those two areas….

All of a sudden, Amanda believes Fox news?

McCain people released this false story becauses they are moderate wimps anyways. We conservatives never wanted McCain, we wanted Romney. We liked Palin better too. Palin, Romney and Jindal are our future. We want to end the abortion holocoust, like we did with slavery.

definitely suspect as far as content goes, but still incredibly funny that the republicans are now engaged in full-blown civil war.  i don’t trust the mccain camp to tell the truth, but on the other hand sarah palin is pretty clueless, at least about stuff that you’d learn in books or in school, so i can buy that she could think africa was a country.  it doesn’t matter though because either way i laugh and republicans enter the thunderdome to fight it out.

i can see palin being blackballed from the republicans who now realize what a mistake it was to let the fundies into the party, but i don’t think she’ll be content to drop off the scene forever.  i can see her emerging in 4 or 8 years as a fringe-type, mike huckabee-without-the-charm candidate.  that is of course, if the republicans are smart and ditch the godbags in the first place.  if they stop their ears and content themselves with a collective delusion that sarah palin somehow was the reason for their tragic defeat, maybe they won’t seriously think about the real reasons they lost.  i’d like to think that the more reflective among them would figure out what’s up, but then again these ARE conservatives.

in the meantime, i sit back with the popcorn.

We conservatives never wanted McCain, we wanted Romney.

Funny to hear that considering how he was excoriated by conservatives for his past “liberal” social positions…..including once being pro-choice…..and allowing universal healthcare to be implemented in Massachusetts under his watch as Governor.  In fact, his entire political history in Massachusetts politics could be symbolized by a 20 foot plate of limp soggy waffles. 

That….and he really was an empty suit for all intents and purposes as Mass governor….:p

I think this is indicative of a rift in the Rethug party,

It’s just raining ponies recently…

And nobody but nobody talks about how much Obama’s suits may have cost.

Well, people do talk about the kind of cash Nancy Pelosi spends on her clothing.  The woman dresses as well or better than Cindy McCain.  Then again, it is HER money being spent, and she has a lot of it.

Palin was apparently spending somebody else’s money - on clothes for herself AND for her family (beyond that needed for public appearances).  I suspect that the low-level staffers who wanted reimbursement were the ones to out her sprees.

Remember, folks:

Whenever a Republican loses, he wasn’t a REAL conservative!

8-)

Larry—

You missed the new wingnut talking point. It is that the stock market didn’t magically go up when Obama was elected. That is what all the wingnuts are flailing about now, even though three days ago they said there was no recession and it was all a figment of the librhu media’s imagination.

In the monkey knife fight between social conservatives and big business conservatives I will put my money on big business conservatives coming out on the winning side of the great republican party purge of ‘08.  Of course the social conservatives will come crawling back for the table scraps and vote the way they are commanded to.

In the monkey knife fight between social conservatives and big business conservatives I will put my money on big business conservatives coming out on the winning side of the great republican party purge of ‘08.  Of course the social conservatives will come crawling back for the table scraps and vote the way they are commanded to.

Yup. But I’ll sure have fun watching the rump Republican Party have its little Civil War.

“Well, people do talk about the kind of cash Nancy Pelosi spends on her clothing.”

Exactly. People talk more about the kind of money women spend on clothing, because of a pre-existing stereotype. Even when people talk about a man’s appearance, it tends to be in an attempt to denigrate through feminization. See for example John Edwards’ $200 haircuts.

Don’t take any of this wrong; I think Sarah Palin was woefully underprepared for the national stage, her track record in Alaska problematic, and her policy positions disagreeable.

But that’s really all that needs to be said, isn’t it? There’s no reason to denigrate her personally, and I find some of the language and stories being used to do so discomfiting.

People talk more about the kind of money women spend on clothing, because of a pre-existing stereotype.

I think in this case, though, people are talking about it because while Sarah Palin ran on a platform of opposing frivolous public spending, her first act as VP was to basically loot the RNC for whatever she could convince them to buy.

I don’t see that it has anything to do with sexism, but I’ve been blind to it before. I wonder, though, how you’d distinguish between a sexist story designed to reinforce the message that “women are airheads who like clothes”, and an objective story about an airhead who does, in fact, like clothes so much she defrauded the RNC and the taxpayer to the tune of $200,000.

I don’t think anybody’s extending the Sarah Palin criticisms to all women, or even all women in politics. I haven’t seen her antics used to tar Pelosi or Boxer with the same brush, for instance. I really do think these are non-sexist stories about a woman who, unfortunately, embodied personal qualities so loathsome as to be stereotypes.

Slightly OT but it’s been bothering me…

Can we stop using how long it took Palin to graduate college as evidence of stupidity?  Not all of us are able to complete our undergraduate educations in 4-5 years for many reasons.  It took me nine years to get my BA and I graduated Summa Cum Laude and am finishing graduate work now.

I don’t think Palin is stupid in any case.  Ill-informed, intellectually lazy and incurious, parochial, and narrow-minded—most definitely.  I find it rich that Palin’s deficiencies are evidence of anything but McCain’s poor leadership, but completely unsurprising given the sexism of those who supported him.

Can we stop using how long it took Palin to graduate college as evidence of stupidity?  Not all of us are able to complete our undergraduate educations in 4-5 years for many reasons.

History_mom,

Agree with you on criticisms of her intellect on the basis of her length of college career as your point about people needing more time to complete is right on.  Worse, it is a distraction from more serious concerns….such as her record of abusing the powers of her office, the sham of a second report by a board legally beholden to her for their jobs notwithstanding…...*

However, I do believe the fact she attended 5 different institutions in 6 years is fair game for scrutiny as such an education record would certainly raise red flags with most corporate HR/graduate admissions committees. 

From talking with colleagues who work in HR departments and relatives/friends who worked admissions….it is understandable if an undergrad didn’t find a good fit for a myriad number of reasons at their first college and chose to transfer to another college as a result.  Transferring more than once, however, would usually raise suspicions the candidate concerned was exhibiting a serious lack of focus/seriousness in their undergrad career and worse, may have had serious academic and/or disciplinary issues which may have forced said candidate to leave the previous institutions.  Suspicions which if true may raise questions about the suitability of said candidate for the job position/potential as successful grad student.  As a candidate for the second highest office in the land….we voters have more than a legitimate right to scrutinize this aspect of her past. 

* How anyone can trust an investigation conducted by subordinates potentially vulnerable to being dismissed by the subject of said investigation is beyond me…..

“I wonder, though, how you’d distinguish between a sexist story designed to reinforce the message that ‘women are airheads who like clothes’, and an objective story about an airhead who does, in fact, like clothes so much she defrauded the RNC and the taxpayer to the tune of $200,000.”

Fair point, but with so much wrong with her policy positions and administration in Alaska, is there really any need to mention the clothes at all, especially when we all know that the ‘vapid fashion-plate’ stereotype of women does exist?

I understand that after eight years of Bush there’s some natural schadenfreude going on, and the American right has not exactly behaved honourably when it comes to scurrilous personal attacks.

But isn’t the hope that November 4th was in part a rejection of the politics of personal destruction?

Fair point, but with so much wrong with her policy positions and administration in Alaska, is there really any need to mention the clothes at all, especially when we all know that the ‘vapid fashion-plate’ stereotype of women does exist?

Don’t forget that not all Palin criticisms are created equal. My father could care less about charging women for rape kits and will assume that there was some dire budgetary reason to do so, even when the evidence says otherwise. But a president who counts on the public to double or triple her yearly salary as president for her publicly billed “perks”? OH NOES, NEW TAXES!

Fair point, but with so much wrong with her policy positions and administration in Alaska, is there really any need to mention the clothes at all, especially when we all know that the ‘vapid fashion-plate’ stereotype of women does exist?

Did you read my post? I thought I laid a pretty good justification for the mention of the clothes. Could you address it if you feel that justification was inadequate?

Look, the Republicans selected Palin as their Rabid Weather Bunny.  Now they realize that they got a Rabid Weather Bunny, that she probably cost them the election, and they are having trouble balancing their books for the last two months of the campaign and have a bunch of low-wage staffers demanding reimbursement due to her fantastically entitled spending habits with other peoples’ money. 

We have to say WE TOLD YOU SO, they have to eat that.  Because they should have known that when you brag about how your side now has a brand new Rabid Weather Bunny, you can’t complain about the predictable consequences of having a Rabid Weather Bunny.

In other words, they could have seen how she spent money in Alaska when she wasn’t grandstanding about cutting costs for things that she personally didn’t use.  Like the tanning bed and the office away from Juneau and the per diem for staying away from her posted job location.  Vetting?  You betcha!

First, Chet’s justification was based on taking at face value the accusations coming out of the McCain camp. I don’t. But even if we grant them, my question is: who cares?

I don’t care how much money she spent at Neiman Marcus. I don’t care if she and McCain would have put twin tanning beds into the Oval Office. I care about the decisions they would have made.

Just like I don’t care that Bill Clinton might have been a Walking Erection. He was still a pretty decent President.

Leave the ‘gotcha’ politics of character assassination to the right. They invented it, they’re better at it, and what’s more, they need it.

There’s no reason for us to call someone a “Rabid Weather Bunny” when “wrong about the issues that matter” would suffice.

Andrew, the republicans WANTED her to be their rabid weather bunny.  She was selected for her appearance, here extreme self confidence, and her fundy cred despite her history of abuse of power and budgets for her own ends.  She was intended to be a front woman for the party who would in the same way that a “Weather Bunny” is selected to take the weather forecast and put on a show with it.  Then, when she wasn’t up to the task of being a Vice Presidential candidate, they are now blaming things on her when they got exactly what they commissioned.  My pointing out that her JOB was to be a Rabid Republican Weather Bunny in the first place doesn’t change that one iota.

I’m not seeing why you are too wedded to your orthodoxy to perceive or understand these basic and simple concepts regarding the actual aims of the republicans and their new game to that end.  Your blind and pathetic PC scolding of us imperfect beings is growing tiresome in that regard.

sorry - that’s “She was intended to be a front woman for the party who would look sexayy while presenting the wingnut agenda in the same way that a “Weather Bunny” is selected to take the weather forecast and put on a show with it. “

If I was still living in Northern Ohio, I’d agree.  Just not as worth it as much when Obama supporters are the majority in Boston and NYC.  It would also not be as sporting in those two areas….

I would wear it while visiting my parents in Arizona. 

I don’t care how much money she spent at Neiman Marcus. I don’t care if she and McCain would have put twin tanning beds into the Oval Office. I care about the decisions they would have made.

Really?  You don’t care how politicians spend public funds as long as they spend them on personal items?  Because, again, that’s the point of the tanning bed story:  she spent state money on it.  And that’s the point of the Neiman Marcus story:  she spent money donated to the RNC for the election on it.

If she spent her own money on these things, you would have an argument that it’s not worth discussing.  But she didn’t.  She spent her constituents’ money on these things.  She spent public money, not her own money.  That’s pretty much the definition of corruption.

“Your blind and pathetic PC scolding of us imperfect beings is growing tiresome in that regard.”

Ms Kate, I’m sorry you’re taking it personally. Certainly wasn’t meant in that way. But what orthodoxy do you imagine I’m wedded to?

The orthodoxy that says that any one, particularly a female anyone, who is selected to run for high office was selected for her qualifications only, and, therefore, should only be discussed in terms of her qualifications.  Otherwise, one isn’t feminist.

Is it inappropriate to discuss what Pelosi spends on clothing - or Cindy McCain?  Yes.  They spend their own money.

It is not unfeminist and inappropriate to criticize Palin for her stereotypical shopping spree behavior, however, because she didn’t use her own money.  Just because she is behaving according to stereotype doesn’t make us unfeminist for pointing out the impropriety of her continued entitlement and personal benefit from her position.  It doesn’t make those criticisms unfair, either.

Mnemosyne -

I’ve seen far too many decent liberal politicians doing an overall good job in office taken down by “scandals” over their expense accounts. I remember when the head of the Canadian Mint was taken down by a “scandal” over an improperly-expensed thirty-five cent pack of gum. Never mind that nobody suggested he was doing anything but a good job.

Sure, it would be nice if politicians brought their own brown-bag lunches to work instead of putting expensive lunches at the steakhouse on the government tab, but really, bigger fish to fry.

(I’m a stop arguing with y’all now, I don’t want to seem like an attention whore, and I’ve largely made my point.)

Sarah Palin is not dumb. You don’t get to be a Governor while being dumb.

That reminds me of the thought I had when Bill Clinton was accused by Paula Jones.  I thought no one who gets elected Governor of a state would have so little class as to drop trou in front of a relative stranger.  A few years later I had to amend that to—Damn, I guess he did. 

One can be ignorant without being dumb.  Ignorance was the Africa and NAFTA info.  Dumb was refusing prep sessions before the Couric interview.  So, damn I guess she really was that dumb and ignorant.

I remember when the head of the Canadian Mint was taken down by a “scandal” over an improperly-expensed thirty-five cent pack of gum.

I know the US dollar is stronger than the Canadian dollar, but I think that $150,000 (about $177,000 CAD) is a somewhat different amount than $0.35.

Googling around about the tanning bed, she does claim that she paid for it herself and if that’s true, then you’re right—it’s a non-issue.  However, given that Alaskan politicians seem to have an odd idea of what “paying for things themselves” is, I would like some reassurance from the government of Alaska that she really did pay for it out of her own pocket.

just as disturbing is the fact that Bill O’Reilly thinks “cramming” was an acceptable substitute for knowing before you get nominated.

There’s no difference between knowing something by cramming or by other means; if you know it, you know it.

Biden thought that FDR made television broadcasts in 1929 and couldn’t say which article of the Constitution defined the Vice Presidency.  What matters is that when the errors were brought to his attention, he looked up the information and learned from his mistake.

From what I recall, Obama was never really asked any substantive questions so it’s hard to gauge what he knows or what most of his positions are.  And other than his (likely ghostwritten) books, he never had the intellectually curiosity to write much beyond a couple of poems.  Unlike Palin, I still have no idea what magazines he reads, or what recent Supreme Court decisions he disagrees with . . . no one ever asked.

um, henrietta, you do realize barack obama taught constitutional law at one of the nation’s top law schools?  his books aren’t ghostwritten, either, unlike some other (failed) presidential contenders i can think of.

and ok i can’t even respond to him not being asked substantive questions—yes, i suppose you’re right.  no one ever asked barack obama to spell “cat” or if he knows what countries comprise north america, that’s true.

Sarah Palin is a do-er, a person who worked for everything she has.

Obama is a blowhard, a speech giver, an egomaniac.

**YAWNNNNNNNN**

Ghostwritten?  Henrietta, please check out Amazon on Obama’s books - take the publication dates, subtract 2 to 3 years, and you will realize that people who were at Obama’s age and station at the time of that writing don’t get ghostwriters, my dear!

(and I say that as someone who ghostwrote parts of a recently issued book myself - one that started being written in 2001)

um, henrietta, you do realize barack obama taught constitutional law at one of the nation’s top law schools?  his books aren’t ghostwritten, either, unlike some other (failed) presidential contenders i can think of.

Obama was a lecturer with no published scholarship whatsoever, other than an unsigned, group-written law review note.  He was a mediocre undergrad (no graduating honors) who was bought into Harvard by a Mr. Al-Mansour.  And it’s pretty much accepted that his first “Dreams” book was written by Bill Ayers. 

You haven’t said what his favorite magazines are or what Supreme Court decisions he disagrees with, so, yes, you do default on my last point.  And I don’t blame you for avoiding the Biden question, as his ignorance is quite indefensible.

Ms. Kate,

Ayers ghostwrote the book to jump-start Obama’s career, something neither party has ever denied.  Remember, Obama’s first publisher dumped him after he failed to submit a manuscript . . . so ended up with a small press and handed the job over to Ayers.

And it’s pretty much accepted that his first “Dreams” book was written by Bill Ayers.

By crazy people.  By people who actually know something about figuring out who wrote what like Dr. Peter Millican, who Republican operatives tried to hire to examine both books, not so much.  Once Millican said he would release the results even if it turned out that the Republicans were wrong and different people had written both books, suddenly they lost interest and the money dried up.  Funny how they were unwilling to take a chance on being proven wrong about something they were so TOTALLY sure about, isn’t it?

But, please, continue pushing the crazy conspiracy theories.  At least it will keep you occupied while we try to repair 30 years of Republican damage to the country.

“Henrietta G. Tavish “

Wrong. The Gop paid someone a major amount of money run a program (that detects plagirism, which is why Ann Coulter got found out to be a plagirist) to verify that and it turns out Ayers had nothing to do with the book.

Ayers ghostwrote the book to jump-start Obama’s career, something neither party has ever denied.

You know what else they’ve never denied?  They’ve never denied that Obama helped Ayers plant bombs in the 1960s when Obama was 8 years old.  You really need to be spending all of your free time examining flight manifests from those years so you can prove that Obama was flying back and forth between Hawaii and Philadelphia to help Ayers with his bombings.  If they’ve never denied it, it must be true. 

Oh, here’s another thing:  Obama has never denied that he was personally inducted into the Black Panther Party by Huey Newton.  You’d better start following that one up right away because, after all, if you don’t deny something, that means it’s a proven fact that it happened.

Don’t forget, you also have to examine the massive, government-wide conspiracy to forge Obama’s birth certificate.  Sure, the Secretary of State in Hawaii says that she personally examined it and found it to be authentic, but it’s not like you can trust any of those people.  You know what I mean. They all stick together. 

I’ll be fascinated to read your explanation of how Obama fooled the State Department with his perfectly forged birth certificate and his contacts in the Hawaii SoS’s office so he could get a passport.  Or is the State Department part of the conspiracy to get Obama into office, so they knowingly issued him a fake passport?  You’d better start digging.  Maybe Condi Rice will talk to you about the State Department conspiring to make it look like Obama is an American citizen.

From what I recall, Obama was never really asked any substantive questions so it’s hard to gauge what he knows or what most of his positions are.

I love Henrietta so.  Larry just can’t keep up with the sheer volume of crazy that Henrietta brings to us on a daily basis.  Because, you know, two books, a two-year-long presidential campaign, a website and a half-hour infomercial later, Henrietta has absolutely NO clue what a single one of Obama’s positions are—they’re a total mystery!  Why is he hiding his political views from the American people? 

Frankly, Henrietta was shocked to find out Obama was running as a Democrat—he never said that!  How could he conceal something as important as his party membership from voters?

Of course Palin knew Africa is a continent.  I can’t believe people would fall for that. Palin hating is just so fashionable right now.  Let’s stop the catty bickering.

Obama’s also never denied being behind the Kennedy asassination, so “Henrietta” should get right on with investigating that…

He was a mediocre undergrad (no graduating honors) who was bought into Harvard by a Mr. Al-Mansour.

Someone who was able to transfer from a topflight private liberal arts college into Columbia University is far from a mediocre undergrad. 

Moreover, it is possible to perform well academically at Columbia and several Ivy/Ivy-level schools without graduating honors by choosing not to go way beyond graduation requirements by doing what is usually an optional undergraduate research thesis. 

I knew plenty of people with overall GPAs at or above a B+/-A level who didn’t graduate with honors because they opted not to do an undergraduate research thesis….and yet succeeded to gain admission to some of the nation’s topflight grad schools…including Harvard Law….and succeeded in graduating near the top of their Law school classes. 

With few exceptions….I do not consider B+/-A level overall undergrad performance to be “mediocre” in any sense of the word.  Interestingly enough….that description would be more applicable to the undergrad academic performances of our outgoing president and Obama’s election race counterpart…...

I’d like to see a link to substantiate that info about your assertion “Mr. Al-Mansour buying Obama into Harvard”......sounds a bit sketchy…... 

Moreover, getting selected to be a mere member of the Harvard Law Review is an honor only allocated to the top law students at Harvard….becoming president of same is far more selective.  Becoming President of Harvard Law is far more impressive than graduating #1 from any undergrad school….especially when you consider the fact that most of Harvard Law’s 1L class were all topflight students/valedictorians of their undergrad classes….and mostly from Ivy/Ivy-level schools.

Why is he hiding his political views from the American people? 

That Obama ... hiding things from people who have yet to receive a web-enabled colonoscopy.  How can they possibly know these things if they aren’t beamed directly to where their heads reside!

Note that Henrietta has lots of theories about how Obama got into law school despite being an “N” person, but no concerns at all over the ascention of W into Harvard Business School after affluentive action at Yale meant a transcript packed with Gentleman’s C’s.

Let’s stop the catty bickering.

You mean, Palin should stop the catty bickering?

Actually, catty bickering would be an improvement over the kind of fasciest skinhead ranting she was spouting at the end of the campaign.

Silly Mnemosyne.  Obama never released his original 1961 birth certificate identifying the delivering doctor and the hospital in which he was born—and Obama and his sister disagree as to which hospital in “Hawaii” it was.  All anybody’s ever seen is a 2007 print-out of information allegedly in some Hawaiian database.  Plainly the original, which they refuse to release, will indicate that baby Obama was being cared for after a long, grueling flight from Kenya.

You’re right, exholt . . . we don’t know a darned thing about Obama’s record at Columbia and they’ll make sure we never do.  Supposedly no one ever saw him there because he was studying oh-so-hard in the libraries night and day.  Not hard enough to crack a B average, though.  Plus, he was “deeply involved” (his words) in the anti-apartheid movement there, though no one who was there remembers that either. 

When the records do leak out, though, we’ll see him bragging to the admissions committee about his pride in coming to America from Kenya and growing up in Hawaii.

what fascist skinhead ranting?  I don’t remember Palin getting catty with other women.

Obama never released his original 1961 birth certificate identifying the delivering doctor and the hospital in which he was born

More stupid, all the time, everywhere.

I’ve coded a shitload of birth and death certificates in my time - you conspiracy theorists really don’t have the first fucking clue how vital records are kept.  One hint - that birth certificate you got with a special doll as a kid is a fantasy romantic thing, not what REAL birth records are like.  Many states code the information (not certificates - FORMS) that is filled out at the hospital and destroy the forms when they are done with them because paper is very very expensive to file.

Note that Henrietta has lots of theories about how Obama got into law school despite being an “N” person, but no concerns at all over the ascention of W into Harvard Business School after affluentive action at Yale meant a transcript packed with Gentleman’s C’s.

Ms. Kate,

You’re being overly charitable to W considering I recalled he graduated from Yale with a C- average….

What’s more funny is that I have an uncle who graduated 2 years after W at Yale undergrad who mentioned that W’s graduating class was probably the last one before Yale revamped its admission policies to make it more meritocratic than the past were being wealthy, well-connected, and/or a legacy could completely compensate for a mediocre/poor academic record.  From what he told me….the differences between the classes admitted before and after that change were quite palpable. 

As for W’s admission to HBS…..W’s family background, connections, and a well-executed donation to HBS and Harvard U were factors that got him in….

On the other hand, I must give UT’s Law school some props for rejecting his mediocrity from their school despite his family’s extensive connections and wealth in Texas.

All anybody’s ever seen is a 2007 print-out of information allegedly in some Hawaiian database. 

I don’t know what planet you are from, but that IS what a birth certificate IS: a certified print out of a birth record.

Even if you could get a photocopy of some mythic piece of paper from a town hall, the government would not consider that acceptable for obtaining a passport.  I know, because they gave us such a photocopy shortly after my son was born because MA is stupid like that, and the feds wouldn’t take it.  I had to get the official certified printout with the standard information in standard spots to get his passport.

There is no such archived paper record for me: I was born in Oregon and they computerized everything a long time ago.

Not hard enough to crack a B average, though.

What proof do you have for this assertion…...oh right….you didn’t offer any.

what fascist skinhead ranting?

Making blatant insinuations about how “real Americans” were those who lived in small rural mostly all-White towns outside of the coasts and Hawaii…...playing to the idea that anyone who does not conform to the GOP’s idealization of small town America is not a real American.

Something those of us who don’t live in such areas are getting quite tired of…..especially when we know those so-called “real Americans” aren’t really anything special….....

we don’t know a darned thing about Obama’s record at Columbia and they’ll make sure we never do.

We also know nothing about Governor Palin’s academic record from the 5 colleges she attended in 6 years.  Though the length of time she took is not that important…...the fact she transferred so many times should be scrutinized…especially as that would raise flags with corporate HR/graduate admissions committees.

Oblammo was borned in Indonesia under a Kenyan passport, I know because I’ve seen a copy of the birth certificate there as posted on reliable conservative websites.  While I cant read Indonesia writing, someone else was able and they certified that it looked like it was Oblammos papers.  Plus, the kerning was studdied.  So, closed case, LIEbrals.  Your so-called president is an illegal alien who doesn’t even have a green card for presidentin.

“Something those of us who don’t live in such areas are getting quite tired of…..especially when we know those so-called “real Americans” aren’t really anything special…..... “

Do you really believe that? Do you really believe red states aren’t special and that blue ones are?  What about states that were red last election and now are blue?  Don’t you think we should “come together” and try to better understand each other? 

I also disagree that Palin appealing to “real Americans”  was racist and fascist.  She even responded to the criticism saying she thought ppl on the coasts are “real Americans too.”  Maybe she originally was referring to poorer less educated ppl?  Even still, they are important individuals and dare I say special too.

I also disagree that Palin appealing to “real Americans” was racist and fascist.

Then why did she quote one of the grand cyclopses of racist fascism in her speeches, Westbrook Pegler?  He thought it quite grand that RFK’s brains were splattered as he wished them to be.

<i>Even if you could get a photocopy of some mythic piece of paper from a town hall</i

Uh . . . there’s no dispute that the 1961 original exists in Hawaii’s files, identifying the doctor, the hospital, etc.  It’s just that they’ve sealed the file, and no one but a family member may access it.  Obama would have released it if the information wasn’t devastating.

But the truth will come out eventually, and he’ll be deported along with his poor, abandoned, illegal alien aunt.

Henrietta, are you saying that Stanley Ann was born in Kenya, too?

Because the laws have long been interpreted to consider the children of a US Citizen woman to be an automatic US Citizen.  The case law supporting this was established a very long time ago. 

Meanwhile, McCain was born in Panama.

“Then why did she quote one of the grand cyclopses of racist fascism in her speeches, Westbrook Pegler?  He thought it quite grand that RFK’s brains were splattered as he wished them to be.”

People quote Jefferson, he had slaves.

Uh . . . there’s no dispute that the 1961 original exists in Hawaii’s files

I doubt it.  Maybe he was born before a certain time threshold after which things were fully computerized, but, as I said before, paper is very expensive to archive, keep, retrieve, etc.  I’ve worked with HI vital records and everything was electronic.

Wow! Superficial bints attract.  What a scientific finding!

Then why did she quote one of the grand cyclopses of racist fascism in her speeches, Westbrook Pegler?  He thought it quite grand that RFK’s brains were splattered as he wished them to be.

HA HA HA HA HA HA . . . So did Bill Ayers, who dedicated his book “Prarie Fire” to Sirhan Sirhan, the man who actuallly splattered RFK’s brains.  Why did Obama launch his career in Ayers’ home, sit on foundation boards with him, and let Ayers babysit his kids and ghostwrite his book?

That’s more than Westbrook Pegler ever did for Sarah Palin.  In fact, they never met.

Plus Palin did not write that speech where she quotes Pegler.  Therefore I doubt she sought out this individual just because she is a supposed “racist or fascist”.  Many left wing politicians quote equally controversial people.  I don’t see how she is a racist, or skinhead by quoting him.

I doubt it.  Maybe he was born before a certain time threshold after which things were fully computerized, but, as I said before, paper is very expensive to archive, keep, retrieve, etc.  I’ve worked with HI vital records and everything was electronic.

Maybe nothing.  They ADMIT they have the original, but won’t release it:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/10/27/daily60.html

How come Barry only wants to show up the 2007 print-out?

Silly Mnemosyne.  Obama never released his original 1961 birth certificate identifying the delivering doctor and the hospital in which he was born—and Obama and his sister disagree as to which hospital in “Hawaii” it was.  All anybody’s ever seen is a 2007 print-out of information allegedly in some Hawaiian database.  Plainly the original, which they refuse to release, will indicate that baby Obama was being cared for after a long, grueling flight from Kenya.

and

Uh . . . there’s no dispute that the 1961 original exists in Hawaii’s files, identifying the doctor, the hospital, etc.  It’s just that they’ve sealed the file, and no one but a family member may access it.  Obama would have released it if the information wasn’t devastating.

See?  You just can’t buy crazy that good!

You never answered me, Henrietta—is the State Department in on the hoax since they accepted the birth certificate when they issued his passport, or is it just that Obama was able to pressure someone in the Hawaii SoS’s office when the State Department contacted them to verify the birth certificate?  How far does this conspiracy go—is Occidental College in on it?  Columbia?  Harvard Law?  When they checked his credentials after he was elected to the Illinois Senate, was that part of the conspiracy or were they fooled?  How about when he was elected to the US Senate?  How about the University of Chicago—when they verified that he was eligible for employment, did he give them that same fake birth certificate?  What about the Social Security office?  Did he give them the fake birth certificate and they never bothered to check with the state of Hawaii, or was the forgery so good that they decided to ignore procedure and not cross-check with the state that issued the birth certificate?

Inquiring minds want to know, Henrietta:  how far do you see this conspiracy extending?  Is the whole government in on it?

is the State Department in on the hoax since they accepted the birth certificate when they issued his passport

Plenty of people get passports with computer-generated birth certificate print-outs.  They’ve never seen his original 1961 birth certificate.  It’s not a conspiracy, just incompetence.  There was no reason to look into until now, and he’s covering up by withholding it.

Why is he withholding the original, Mnemosyne?

Do you really believe that? Do you really believe red states aren’t special and that blue ones are?  What about states that were red last election and now are blue?  Don’t you think we should “come together” and try to better understand each other?

First. I never brought up red states and blue states…..you did. 

Second, considering how much the GOP and people from rural small and mostly all-White small towns outside of the coasts and Hawaii love to imply they are better than those of us on the coasts and Hawaii and more “genuine” as Americans…...yes…they need to be told to get off their high horse and that they are no more special than the rest of the US of A. 

As someone who attended college as a scholarship student in a small rural majority White town in Northern Ohio…...heard too much of this crap from the local town residents….especially when it is used to denigrate students who are non-White or otherwise do not conform to their narrowminded idea of what constitutes a “real American”.

Plenty of people get passports with computer-generated birth certificate print-outs.  They’ve never seen his original 1961 birth certificate.  It’s not a conspiracy, just incompetence.  There was no reason to look into until now, and he’s covering up by withholding it.

Why is he withholding the original, Mnemosyne?

Oh, Henrietta.  You just keep getting better and better.  You really are my favorite crazy troll ever. 

Obama was supposed to come to your doorstep, sit down in your living room, personally show you his original birth certificate, and carefully explain each and every one of his policy proposals to you with charts and a PowerPoint.  Without that, he’s clearly a complete liar who managed to fool the State Department, the Social Security Administration, Punahou Academy, Occidental College, Columbia University, Harvard University, the University of Chicago, the state of Illinois, and the Congress of the United States with his astounding forgery abilities. 

Wow, you’ve sure won me over.  That sounds much more logical than thinking that Obama is tired of showing proof to people who keep moving the goalposts and insisting that unless magical unicorns tap out Obama’s statistics with their front right hoof, he must be hiding something!!11!!one!!1!!

Obama was supposed to come to your doorstep, blah blah blah

No, he was supposed to have simply posted the original on his web site.  He took the trouble to post the 2007 print-out there, and tons of other stuff.  With $600 million from his criminal fraud-enabling credit card site, it really wouldn’t have been so difficult.  You can repeat your dull-witted “forgery” schtick again, but as I indicated, the fact that the State Department, etc. accepted some meaningless, non-original print-out doesn’t resolve the easily resolvable question of where he was born. 

So, what did you think of Teleprompter Jesus’ first press conference?  Impressive how he tried to slam Nancy Reagan with the “seance” quip, but hit Hillary Clinton instead!  What diplomacy . . . maybe he’ll pass out ham sandwiches when he visits the Knesset, if it’s still around after sits down with Iran and Khalidi without preconditions to plan Israel’s destruction.

You can repeat your dull-witted “forgery” schtick again, but as I indicated, the fact that the State Department, etc. accepted some meaningless, non-original print-out doesn’t resolve the easily resolvable question of where he was born.

I love your conviction that the State Department and Social Security Administration regularly accepts non-certified copies of birth certificates when they issue passports and Social Security cards.  Really, your naive non-faith in government is touching.

oh man this shit is making my afternoon.

can we also talk about how obama’s real father is malcolm x now? 

part of me thinks this is the best troll act i’ve ever seen, but no one could really be that good, right?

Impressive how he tried to slam Nancy Reagan with the “seance” quip, but hit Hillary Clinton instead!

I’m more impressed with Steve Benen every time I read him—he called this meme at 3:56 Eastern time, three hours before Henrietta got to it.

What diplomacy . . . maybe he’ll pass out ham sandwiches when he visits the Knesset, if it’s still around after sits down with Iran and Khalidi without preconditions to plan Israel’s destruction.

Henrietta, what meat is forbidden in Islam?  I’ll wait here while you Google it.

Plenty of people get passports with computer-generated birth certificate print-outs.  They’ve never seen his original 1961 birth certificate.  It’s not a conspiracy, just incompetence. 

You cannot get a passport off one of these birth certificate forms.  The state department won’t accept them.  You need the information in a specific format, printed out and certified by the issuing agency.  I know because I had a copy of the hospital’s forms for my sons made for travel shortly after they were born, and I had to get new copies in the official format to get their passports earlier this year.

BTW, that is why it is called a “certificate of live birth” in most places - the vital records division is certifying that you were born where you said you were.  Nobody uses those randomly arrayed pieces of paper the hospitals type up and send to the state anymore because they contain highly varied information in random places and retrieving and photocopying them is an enormous expense if the are even kept and archived at all.

If you’re going to start a NEW conspiracy, get your stories straight.  Either it’s (1) the State Department only accept the original, certified issued-at-birth certificate, or (2) hey, nobody has the original, the State Department accepts computer-generated print-outs.

I’m more impressed with Steve Benen every time I read him

That’s where I saw the story . . . I left a comment there, too, but Steve Benen is a liberal fascist who deletes comments.  Maybe Obama will give him a job working with Chuck Shumer to use the “fairness doctrine” to shut down political speech just like pornography.

can we also talk about how obama’s real father is malcolm x now?

Don’t be silly.  Obama’s real father is communist-pornographer pedophile Franklin Marshall Davis.

::points::

PARODY TROLL!  PARODY TROLL!

If you’re going to start a NEW conspiracy, get your stories straight.  Either it’s (1) the State Department only accept the original, certified issued-at-birth certificate, or (2) hey, nobody has the original, the State Department accepts computer-generated print-outs.

Hey, it’s your conspiracy theory, I’m just trying to figure it out.  You’re claiming that Obama is not a citizen and that he’s using a fake birth certificate.  I’m asking you why the State Department and the Social Security Administration accepted that fake birth certificate—is it a conspiracy or is Obama a master forger?

Uh . . . there’s no dispute that the 1961 original exists in Hawaii’s files,
[...]
And it’s pretty much accepted that his first “Dreams” book was written by Bill Ayers.

PARODY TROLL!  PARODY TROLL!

Looks that way.

Good lord people, is there any shark you’re not willing to jump?

Pandagon’s trolls are fat.

(And I’m tempted to end all comments for the next four-to(hopefully)-eight years with: “Hey wingnuts? SUCK IT!”)

HGT and RiM are at least entertaining.  Can we spike “Larry” ‘s ISP ## forever?  He’s Borrrrrinnnnngggg.