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Next entry: Bamboo Review, II:  WALL-E again Previous entry: Touch Me In A Fistular Way

Save the stupid, cruel males

ChoadsFeminism

Oh my lord, Tracy Clark-Flory linked a new low in Kathleen Parker male-hate.  “But Amanda,” you might say, “How can you say Kathleen Parker hates men when she wrote a book called ‘Save the Males’?”  I say that because Parker can only bring herself to defend rapists, gropers, and men that are too stupid to breathe.  If you don’t belong to one of those groups, I get the impression that Parker doesn’t think you’re a man at all.  If that definition of manhood—-stupid and cruel—-doesn’t seem anti-male to you, there’s not much I can do for you.

The article is basically an Americanized rehash of the Taliban’s arguments about how women’s presence needs to be controlled and covered up because men are animals who have to rape you if they see sideboob.  Interestingly, while Parker lavishes attention on mini-skirts and other ho clothes, she completely misses condemning high heeled shoes, which I thought was a real shame, because it would have been cool if she’s argued that women’s footfall needs to be silenced to prevent men from becoming aroused, because we know that once a man experiences sexual arousal, he has no choice but to do something dumb and violent.  Most of the first page is just standard issue ranting, some about genuinely weird trends of sexualizing pre-pubescent girls with porn culture-inspired clothing.  As much as it pains me to say this, I do agree with Parker in this sense:

Why would a 21st-century mother in a post-postfeminist world enable the marketing of her daughter as a sex kitten? The explanation may in part be simple ignorance or lack of awareness. Dress-up is fun, and little girls in grown-up garb are adorable.


She then blows it by mentioning JonBenet Ramsey, whose schtick was widely acknowledged to be more creepy than cute, albeit in the aftermath of a serious crime that made everything seem creepy.  But I do agree with Parker that the motivations behind some of these clothes are bizarrely innocent—-the idea that a 4-year-old could be sexy is considered ridiculous by most people who buy these clothes, and the humor is in the inappropriate nature of it. They’re not bad people, just misguided.  But the invocation of the victim of a sexual assault/murder lets you know exactly where she’s going with this, even though I think it’s reasonable at this point in time to be skeptical of the idea that JonBenet’s beauty pageant participation was related to her murder. 

And now for what we like to call Wingnut Euphemism Time, where purposefully vague language is employed to excuse something ugly and violent by pretending it’s something else.

Among the many conflicting messages men must process in their social interactions with women is that women who play ho are not necessarily inviting sexual attention. “Look but don’t touch” has never been more rigidly enforced or more confusing.

I can feel the heads of her audience nodding along, but I say to you this: She’s actually suggesting that the sane response to seeing a woman in a tight, low-cut shirt or in a miniskirt is to grope her against her will, which is “sexual attention”.  You know, instead of finding someone attractive and politely asking her for coffee, while fully willing to take no for an answer because you respect that women are full human beings. Where’s the enforcement or confusion coming from?  Has it ever been considered appropriate to assault women like that?  No, of course not.  In fact, I’d argue the reason men do pinch, openly leer until they get the satisfaction of making you squirm, or yell at you is because they know it’s wrong and they’re doing it to show that they have the power to mistreat you and you can’t do anything about it.  Which is why, in my experience, the likelihood of getting groped correlates strongly with vulnerability and not with what you’re wearing.  Service industry workers like waitresses and baristas often get to work in baggy shorts or jeans, but they still get this harassment.  Standing on the street is more vulnerable than standing in line at a cash register, for instance, so guess where you get it more?  Crowded areas or places where men vastly outnumber women are places where women are at a severe disadvantage should they try to defend themselves, and so these are places where you’ll see more, um, “sexual attention”.

It’s kind of sad that’s how Parker defines sexual attention, by the way.  In my world, sex is different than ugly, violent power plays.  It’s fun and not about putting women in our place. How poorer her life must be to have never experienced enough of real sexual attention to know how it’s different than dominating behavior.

Luckily for us, the Wingnut Euphemism Machine clarifies what Parker means when she suggests there was a golden era when men could sexually assault women and blame their clothes for it. 

The usual signals to men that a woman is sexually available have been redefined.

In the past, there were girls (often lower class, often prostitutes) that you could sexually assault with society’s blessing, in other words.  While some would point out that this is a gain for women as a group, Parker would say that we’re being selfish.  Who will stand up for men’s rights to have a class of women set aside to abuse?

Strutting her stuff is a prerogative — even to the extent of showing up at the office in what amounts to a teddy — while men aren’t supposed to notice.

Yeah, I’d like to see the office where women wear teddies to work.  “30 Rock” has a long-running joke about a woman who shows up wearing inappropriate clothes all the time to work, and even they wouldn’t risk losing your suspension of disbelief by putting her in a teddy.*

To comment — “Hey, nice blouse” — is tantamount to professional suicide in some cubicles.

Why doesn’t he say “nice teddy”, if that’s what she’s supposedly wearing?  I detect two urban legends—-the guy who got fired for a completely innocent comment and the woman who showed up to work in a teddy—-working in conjunction.  What’s the sound of two strawmen mating?  Probably the sound of them leaping up and singing in unison “If I Only Had Anatomically Correct Bits Under These Raggedy Pants”. 

The social rules for who can give what compliments are not actually that hard to figure out.  It’s usually bad form to compliment someone you could conceivably have a sexual interest in until you know them better and have established trust, unless the compliment is completely asexual.  The people who don’t know these rules—-like it would be weird if I said to a male coworker, “Hey nice pants, they really flatter your ass,” but it would be okay for him to say, if I’m wearing a band T-shirt, that he likes the band—-immediately stick out because they’re so socially maladjusted.  Does Parker think all men are so completely inept? 

No, of course not.  What she’s defending here is a man’s right to transgress normal social boundaries on purpose to intimidate a woman, and then, when called on it, play dumb by claiming he didn’t know better.  Again, the irony in this is that it’s because there’s social boundaries to transgress that it’s thrilling to transgress them.  If harassing women weren’t rude and upsetting to the victim, then the appeal would disappear. 

*Am I the only person who finds the term “teddy” kind of weird?  I just hate that word. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 01:06 PM • (45) Comments

I find “teddy” to be about as disturbing as “panties”...which is to say, a LOT.

also, Parker is a sad, sad woman. I vaguely recall reading a column in which she described a scene from her relationship (or marriage? I forget) and thinking ... my god, the woman wouldn’t know love or respect if it bit her on the ass. I can’t even hate on her, because clearly life (and the men in it) has treated her very badly.
(apologies if this posts twice)

Comment #1: The One True Vegan  on  07/02  at  01:12 PM

OT, but hilarious—one of your Google ads says:

“HIV Diarrhea Solution”. I am so calling my band this.

Comment #2: vitaminC  on  07/02  at  01:20 PM

To me, a teddy is a child’s toy, which is why it sounds weird as a name for lingerie. Parker’s columns get weirder by the day.

Comment #3: Jody  on  07/02  at  01:25 PM

Amanda,

Once again another excellent post.  I really like the way you handle these gender issues.  As a man, I find you are very fair on both sides, and are not afraid to speak your mind.

Gender issues have a tendency to pull us apart, men and women alike, each of us defending our little ego’s trying to right the perceived wrongs.  But let’s face it, we are all messed up psychologically and emotionally by the modern world, which has stripped us away from our traditional understandings of our roles as men and women, but also our communicative culture. Mind you, those traditional understandings were themselves unhealthy and neurotic, but at least we spoke to one another.  This day and age of I-pods and cell phones is a very thick space to surround ourselves with a false barrier of self-projection, which enhances the alienation of individual from community.

I particularly like what you had to say about the women who dress-to-kill and how men react.  Women who have this luxury (not all women do) probably do so for self-esteem, and the men have to accept the fact that they will be able to see and not touch almost all of the time.  We get to get sensually aroused, and can’t do anything about it but hope.  Meanwhile, the women who are attractive enough to be able to dress sensually get a sense of their power to attract the opposite sex.  Yet in that attraction, their is no certainty of companionship.  Lust and understanding are usually mutually exclusive. Both of us are sort of trapped by this I think.  Or am I over-looking something?

I’m just thinking out loud here.  I’m not trying to vent my own personal frustrations.  The last time I made a comment however, there was a certain poster who blasted their own negativity against every single person—idiots and thoughtful person’s alike.

Might I suggest to that poster (a certain Onyxxx, I think) to stop.  This anonymous comment space is not the place for you to bash everyone.  If you don’t like what someone says.  Ignore them.  Do you really expect anyone to reflect upon your negative thoughts in this type of forum?  Nothing fruitful will come of it, and no one gets the message you intend.  All you do is prolong your own inner unhealthiness.

I’m just interested in relevant insight.  And those who provide such relevant insight.  Anyone else is just annoying.

Take care.

Comment #4: ginardo  on  07/02  at  01:28 PM

A teddy is, after all, a onesie for big people.

I think One True Vegan has it exactly right. There is something acutely damaging about “traditional” sex roles, something which involves the abnegation of ones humanity.

Comment #5: idlemind  on  07/02  at  01:28 PM

I might feel badly for someone as emotionally stunted as Parker except that she’s paid good money for her psychological deformity. And she is the go-to, rent-a-doormat for the media when Maureen Dowd is busy, so she poisons gender discourse in this country horrifically.

Comment #6: histrogeek  on  07/02  at  01:32 PM

Hey, it’s better than “camiknickers” which is what the garment was originally called. Perhaps “maillot” - French for “shirt” and used for one-piece swimsuits and sleeveless leotards - would be better?

Comment #7: Sarcastro  on  07/02  at  01:38 PM

Good post on the ever-spiraling downwards Parker…but what the hell is “sideboob”...I don’t get it!

Comment #8: wagonjak  on  07/02  at  01:45 PM

Sideboob is the glimpse of breast that you can catch through an armhole, as far as I know. When you’re 13, it’s a really big deal.

Comment #9: Incertus, Nacho Daddy  on  07/02  at  01:58 PM

As seen in the Family Guy episode PTV where one of Peter’s original programs is The Sideboob Hour.

It’s pretty funny, actually…

Comment #10: themann1086  on  07/02  at  02:04 PM

I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with Sarcastro. “Camiknickers” is an AWEsome word, and “The Camiknickers” will be the name of my new Rock Band.

Comment #11: The One True Vegan  on  07/02  at  02:06 PM

“but what the hell is “sideboob””

basically, the counterpoint to cleavage - instead of seeing the inner side of the breast, you see the outer side;  you can see it alot at beaches with women wearing bikini tops that don’t have full coverage horizontally.  Alternately, I’ve heard it used to describe when you can see a woman’s bra cups through the armhole of a sleeveless top - again, the counterpoint to looking down her neckline.  I used to call this a nice perk as a college student - now that I teach at university, it skeeves me the hell out (mainly because I mentally attach the “little sister” tag to all my female students - I could care less what they wear because leering at your sister is just wrong, so we’re all good)

Comment #12: Phalamir  on  07/02  at  02:09 PM

I always hate these articles. On the one hand, I do sort of “get” the frustrated confusion of the male who receives mixed signals from certain women.

There are women where I work (not many of them, but 2 or 3 of them) that dress incredibly inappropriately and yet respond hyper-defensively to any look which they perceive as leering or lustful. I think that a LOT of those “looks” are less lustful and more WFT? perplexity. It’s the trade-off for not having a formal dress-code, I guess - I get to wear jeans, yes, but Steph down the hall gets to wear her Catholic Schoolgrl Stripper outfit that shows off her panties. And I know this is the internet, but I really do swear I have seen this.

And, NO, dressing like that does not mean that you should be groped or leered at or slut-shamed or anything else. I get that. But I also get that, if one of the guys showed up in leather chaps, I might give a prolonged glance just out of sheer shock and I’d be annoyed if I had to go down to HR to explain myself for that. And I’m not even a very “visual arousal” person, and I know a lot of guys who are, so I can only imagine how difficult it can be at times.

At the same time, I completely agree that any attitude that men can’t help themselves from molesting women who dress provocatively or - heck - even completely naked, is a completely man hating mentality. It assumes that men are animals - total rapists that are only held back (tentatively) by our careful covering of our bodies to prevent arousal.

Comment #13: Faye  on  07/02  at  02:18 PM

I have always been insulted by the notion that the sight of a woman under her burqa will drive me into a lust-frenzy that can only end in rape and an honour killing. I can control myself around attractive people, thank you very much. In fact, I’m so old-fashioned-gentlemanly that I call a teddy a “Theodore”.

Comment #14: canuckistani  on  07/02  at  02:30 PM

Contrary to my usual practice, I actually looked at Ms. Parker’s column (but not her book.)

I’m of two minds about it.

On the one hand, I don’t have any problem figuring out “whether to grab a sword or a sheath-of the latex variety,” and I think the idea that we poor menz just don’t know how to act is a little insulting.  Correction: it’s a lot insulting.  Anybody who thinks that the old rules (like finding out for sure whether she’s willing before making your advances) are out of date is just acting stupid.

On the other hand, I’m one of those people who believes that what you wear does send a message, whether you admit it or not.  The message I’m getting from the stuff that Ms. Parker describes is “I want/need recognition, I want someone to look at me, and the only way I know how to get it is by being more-in-your-face-than-thou to every passer-by with the fact that I am female.”  They’re not advertising their sexual availability. it’s more like they’re competing for air time.

Contrary to what Ms. Parker seems to expect, I don’t find it the least bit arousing.  I just find it sad.

And self-respect is so much sexier—cf. Katherine Hepburn (even at 90!), Diane Keaton, etc.

Comment #15: AMM  on  07/02  at  02:54 PM

What’s the sound of two strawmen mating?

_Excellent_, excellent line, Amanda.  Creative Commons, I hope?  smile

Comment #16: FlipYrWhig  on  07/02  at  03:11 PM

“To me, a teddy is a child’s toy, which is why it sounds weird as a name for lingerie. Parker’s columns get weirder by the day.”

Until Jody said this I had nooooo idea what a teddy was referring to. We do not call lingerie names of childrens toys. *sigh* Maillot would be a better term indeed.

Comment #17: Elice  on  07/02  at  03:43 PM

The one thing I will agree with Ms. Parker on is her [seemingly] disapproving stance on the sexualization of children. It’s wrong, and the parents who buy that type of clothing for a child, should also be held accountable. On this we are even.

However, if I were a self- and woman-respecting male, I would be as offended at the pandering yet condescending tone of this article as I am offended as a female feminist at the suggestion and propagation of the stereotype that all women are sluts in heat, and that cleavage is tantamount to begging for wang on your knees.

To me, this woman sounds bitter, and like someone who’s sister was ‘the pretty one’.

Comment #18: Lindsay  on  07/02  at  03:47 PM

I hate this “sexy clothes equals sexual assault” myth that people like Parker keep perpetrating.

I have been sexually harassed three times in the past two years and I’m someone who always does a little freak out when summer comes because I’ll have to wear things like shorts so I don’t fry.  One time I had a co-worker commenting on the size and shape of my breasts while my chest was completely covered up to base of my neck by a t-shirt and another time a random freak tried to grab me while I was walking home and I was wearing a hoody that was about three sizes too large.

Clothing does not make sexual predators, sexual predators make sexual predators.

Comment #19: hypatia  on  07/02  at  03:47 PM

To comment — “Hey, nice blouse” — is tantamount to professional suicide in some cubicles.

I think the issues she’s missing are context and body language. If the commenter makes some remark about every woman’s clothes every single day, it would start to get creepy. Likewise, if the commenter said “Heeeey…that’s a niiiiiice blouse” while grabbing his crotch, why, yes, that should be tantamount to professional suicide. (And how many of the guys Parker knows would get defensive and complain that “I just said it was a nice blouse—what’s her problem?”)

But “nice blouse” or even “nice pants” don’t have to be sexual compliments in any way. Maybe the color makes you look healthier, or the cut makes you look slimmer, or the comfortable fabric gives you a more relaxed air, or some combination of these conveys a strong, “competant professional” attidude. 

We get to get sensually aroused, and can’t do anything about it but hope.

And this is different from women exactly how?

Meanwhile, the women who are attractive enough to be able to dress sensually get a sense of their power to attract the opposite sex.

I’m hoping this is just an awkward phrasing and that you’re not really saying that “only women who fit my definition of attraction should dress sensually”...

Lust and understanding are usually mutually exclusive.

Why? What about each feeling precludes the other? I think “lust and understanding” is pretty much the bedrock of a good sexual relationship (not to mention a kick-ass title for a book).

Comment #20: Dorothy  on  07/02  at  03:56 PM

My brother’s name is Edward, and like Senator Kennedy, is called Ted and not Ed. Until he was at least in high school we called him Teddy, and older family members still do. I find the item the least sexy kind of lingerie there is. I’m guessing that is probably why.

Comment #21: onejewishdyke  on  07/02  at  03:57 PM

Migod, those shoes are *chocolate*.

Chocolate high heels—is this a fetish I wasn’t familiar with?

“Look but don’t touch”


In other words, “You see with your eyes, not with your hands.”

Something that every child knows.

What’s the problem?

Comment #23: Tom  on  07/02  at  04:13 PM

This post is so good. I’m hyperventilating. I need a paper bag or something.

Comment #24: Lauren O  on  07/02  at  04:18 PM

Tom, I had a long, blathering post all ready to go and you made it irrelevant in three sentences. Thanks.

Comment #25: Rick Massimo  on  07/02  at  04:20 PM

Dr. Psycho, I’ve been trying to figure out all day why that picture makes me hungry. Thanks for identifying why.

Comment #26: Faye  on  07/02  at  04:30 PM

I’m a male in the business world. Woe, woe is me. The rules have changed. Everyone is so sensitive. And no one has the answer to the biggest question in my relationships with my female co-workers:

How can I pester them for/about sex without being charged with harassment?

And when they resist, isn’t that just “reverse harassment”?

(adaped from an old Tom Toles cartoon)

Comment #27: Bitter Scribe  on  07/02  at  04:31 PM

Oooh.  This post is so inspiring me.  Do I wanna link to it and blog my thoughts in detail or do I just wanna write a comment…decisions decisions…

1. I don’t know any mother who has no issues who dresses her small daughter in hypersexualized clothes.  The ones who do, have problems, period.  Agreed that little kids dressing themselves up in a random assortment of Mommy’s clothes are cute.  Mommy dressing little kids in so-called “sexy” clothes has no normal excuse.

2. “On the other hand, I’m one of those people who believes that what you wear does send a message, whether you admit it or not. “I want/need recognition, I want someone to look at me, and the only way I know how to get it is by being more-in-your-face-than-thou to every passer-by with the fact that I am female.” They’re not advertising their sexual availability. it’s more like they’re competing for air time.””  I don’t think it has anything to do with “admitting” it; the same can be said about anything anyone says or does in public—yeah, it ALL leaves a message of some description—so obvious it hardly even needs to be said, eh?  The problem comes when people decide FOR you what message you’re sending and then accuse you of sending “mixed signals” when really what we’re talking about is that they think that if they can force everyone else to agree that the signal they WANT you to be sending is the one you ARE sending, then that forces some kind of obligation on you.  Weird, huh.  But horrifyingly effective, apparently, judging from the original article. 

3. When I wear my nicest jewelry set—a matching thick-linked short gold neck chain, twisted drop gold earrings, a solid gold band and tennis bracelet—nobody ever accuses me of shamelessly flaunting my wealth nor implies that it would be even remotely socially acceptable for anyone to either touch it in any way at all without my EXPLICIT permission nor does anyone ever suggest that anyone who would rip it off my body and wear it themselves would have any reason for imagining that that was okay.  The reasonable expectation is that people will see it, think it lovely and that’s all, and not be expected to do more although it’s also well-known that most people want really valuable things worth lots of money and find those things extremely attractive and tempting—indeed, spend most of their adult lives slaving away for things worth lots of money.  A conundrum.

Comment #28: Lisa KS  on  07/02  at  04:36 PM

Amanda, I think you may be being too narrow in your JonBenet assessment.

For the stupid Parker article, the crucial phrase may be “play the ho”. Once you’ve nodded along to the idea that women who dress in ostensibly non-modest clothing are in fact advertising themselves as sex workers with a side order of can’t-be-prosecuted-for-raping-them underclass, then the rest of it falls into place. Of course whatever happens to them is deserved, and whatever happens to men who take them at their supposedly advertised value is unjust. After all, they couldn’t just be wearing whatever that is because it’s comfortable, or they like the way it looks/feels, or they have a hot date after work and no time to change. It has to be all about the men.

(And may I say that the object of an on-and-off crush from college through my early 30’s had “Teddy” for a middle name? So I am completely unqualified to comment on that strawman)

Comment #29: paul  on  07/02  at  04:36 PM

I think the issues she’s missing are context and body language. If the commenter makes some remark about every woman’s clothes every single day, it would start to get creepy. Likewise, if the commenter said “Heeeey…that’s a niiiiiice blouse” while grabbing his crotch, why, yes, that should be tantamount to professional suicide. (And how many of the guys Parker knows would get defensive and complain that “I just said it was a nice blouse—what’s her problem?”)

I never compliment female coworkers on their clothes, or any other part of their appearance. Even if someone took it the wrong way, I doubt they’d report me - but they’d think I was creepy and interested in them and it would be unpleasant for them. And if we had to work together on a project it would be painful for both of us. So I just don’t want to take that risk.

It has a downside - I’ve lost a lot of weight in the past few months and various coworkers, including female ones, have noticed and complimented me on it. So if I never say anything about their appearance I may come across as ungracious. But I’d rather they think that than be uncomfortable about working with me.

Comment #30: pepito  on  07/02  at  04:37 PM

Awkward Tension Mistaken For Sexual Tension
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33034

Comment #31: cynickal  on  07/02  at  05:08 PM

I never compliment female coworkers on their clothes, or any other part of their appearance. Even if someone took it the wrong way, I doubt they’d report me - but they’d think I was creepy and interested in them and it would be unpleasant for them. And if we had to work together on a project it would be painful for both of us. So I just don’t want to take that risk.

I suspect you might be underestimating your coworkers, but you know them better than I (obviously). Thinking about your coworkers reactions and feelings is great, and it doesn’t sound like you see it as an undue burden or resent it (again, the way that the men Parker is writing about seem to).

It has a downside - I’ve lost a lot of weight in the past few months and various coworkers, including female ones, have noticed and complimented me on it. So if I never say anything about their appearance I may come across as ungracious.

From a manners perspective, no compliment ever “requires” a return compliment. The gracious response to a compliment is a sincere “Thank you”: anything else is extra.

Comment #32: Dorothy  on  07/02  at  05:20 PM

I suspect you might be underestimating your coworkers, but you know them better than I (obviously).

It’s more that I am really atrocious at reading people, and I often can’t tell whether I know people (male or female) well enough to talk about things other than actual work. My thinking is if I overstep that line with men, they aren’t so likely to be threatened by that.

Comment #33: pepito  on  07/02  at  05:40 PM

I never compliment female coworkers on their clothes, or any other part of their appearance. Even if someone took it the wrong way, I doubt they’d report me - but they’d think I was creepy and interested in them and it would be unpleasant for them.

Funny, as a woman I feel free to compliment both my male and female coworkers on their appearances. and clothes.  And, of course, never in an inappropriate way.  I’d never say “those jeans make your ass look great”, ro anything like that.  But “That’s a great shirt,” is pretty inoffensive, I think. 

I wonder if this isn’t similar to the idea that a man can never show affection for a child in an appropriate way (unless maybe it’s a close blood relative, but even then…) . .  Yet another way that men are penalized for having emotions and attempting to connect on a human level with others. 

I’ll also contribute that I’ve been told by platonic male friends that I look good, and I haven’t been creeped out by it at all.  Though I remember the first time I got the creepy version of this—it was back maybe 10-15 years ago, and necklaces with pendants that were a little longish and fell around the chest type area were in style.  I was out around town and some creepy way older dude (I was like 14-15) came up to me and said, “That’s a nice, ummmm, necklace…” while leering directly at my breasts.  I immediately knew this was NOT cool, even though I don’t think anything is wrong with casual compliments of someone’s appearance.

Oh, and just in case there are any trolls about, no, I was not wearing a dangly necklace in order to attract attention to my breasts, or in hopes that I would be sexually harassed by a dirty old man.  But thanks for playing all the same.

Comment #34: The Opoponax  on  07/02  at  07:49 PM

I think the belief that Parker is promoting—-that men are born perverts—-is what’s working against them.  If you say you like a woman’s shoes, then it must be, in the eyes of the Parkers of the world, that you’re wishing sexually assault her and has nothing to do with an aesthetic appreciation of the shoes.  If we respected that men are multi-layered people instead of dicks on sticks, this wouldn’t be such a problem.

To echo Opop, the funny part is that once you enter into any kind of trusting platonic relationship with a man, the compliments flow freely and are unquestionably asexual.  Nice shoes, nice dress, like your hair, etc.  It’s not that hard.

Comment #35: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/02  at  08:08 PM

I’ve worn adult diapers since I was 14 due to a medial condition which makes me sweat excessively. If I don’t wear them, my pants get soaking wet before the end of the day.

That said, whenever I meet a really attractive woman, I like to get hard and let my bladder go. It’s so erotic and it feels so good, and of course the diaper catches it all and hides the erection. This way, no harassment occurs and I get a little thrill.

Not that I’m recommending this to everyone, but since I’m stuck with these diapers, what’s the harm?

Comment #36: Shepherd Kendall  on  07/02  at  09:03 PM

pepito, I think there’s a difference between “You look great in that [item]” or “That [item] looks great on you”—which _can_ come across as too intimate or as an act of sizing-up—and “I like that [item]” or “That’s a great color”—which are much more clearly non-leering expressions of your aesthetic judgment.  Unless your tongue hangs out and your eyes goggle like a Tex Avery cartoon while you’re doing it.

Comment #37: FlipYrWhig  on  07/02  at  09:04 PM

If you say you like a woman’s shoes, then it must be, in the eyes of the Parkers of the world, that you’re wishing sexually assault her and has nothing to do with an aesthetic appreciation of the shoes.

Or that you’re queer, because no straight man would appreciate a woman’s shoes.

That takes us back to straight-men-as-pervs, only from a slightly different direction: because they’re incapable of appreciating shoes or a shirt or a haircut from an aesthetic point of view (it would immediately turn them gay, after all) any pretense of such appreciation must actually be an expression of desire-to-hump.

Comment #38: paul  on  07/02  at  09:35 PM

I never compliment female coworkers on their clothes, or any other part of their appearance.

Well, me either, but then again, I never compliment male coworkers on their clothes either. It’s not that I think anyone would object, it’s more that it doesn’t seem like appropriate workplace banter to me. But that’s me, and my office, and YMMV.

Comment #39: Jeff Fecke  on  07/03  at  12:23 AM

I don’t compliment male coworkers on their clothes… Not out of principle, but because their clothes are atrocious.

Comment #40: FlipYrWhig  on  07/03  at  12:41 AM

The problem comes when people decide FOR you what message you’re sending and then accuse you of sending “mixed signals”

It’s amazing how often that needs to be said.

Or that you’re queer, because no straight man would appreciate a woman’s shoes.

I was about to say.

The “straight men can’t appreciate women’s appearances in an aesthetic way” meme is interesting to me. Robert Plotkin on Project Runway aside, where does the idea come from that it’s the gayest of the gay for a man to want to design women’s clothes or cut their hair? Is it because you’re trying to make women look nice when you’re probably never going to sleep with them, and only a gay guy would want to make a woman look nice so other men can enjoy fucking her more? That’s just a guess; I really don’t have the first clue.

Comment #41: junk science  on  07/03  at  01:44 AM

I’m sort of, most of the time, straight and I love women’s clothes, and I’m really jealous of their shoes. Even before I figured out the whole sort of, most of the time bit I loved them. I seem to be able to compliment people on their clothes, color choices, etc. and we usually discuss clothes, shoes, etc-what looks good, what doesn’t. I hate the trend of tall, skinny women wearing empire waists. I’ve made this the defacto fashion check. We all call each other for spectacular mullets, black socks & shorts, and these women looking like fat guys wearing oversize jersies. The only time I hold back is when I’m attracted to someone. I’m afraid the lust (the attraction, the spark-I’m reading a lot of Kathy Acker & Dennis Cooper so lust seems to fit the bill lately) might inform the comment, even if the comment is not lust inspired.
What I’m sick of is feeling like I’m being a leering idiot when I ask if I can help you. You are in a retail establishment. My job is to help you. I have to ask. This is recent, but I get this vibe at least once a day. if i’m really that attracted to a customer I tend to stay away and admire from afar (either to not ruin whatever insane fantasy I’ve concocted, or I’m just shy)(of course, you all now imagine me stalking the poor person the whole time they’re in my store-no, no infatuation is born of momentary, accidental glances- I guess Genet is here, too.)
Ha! I don’t recognize myself anymore-goodnight.

Comment #42: dooflow  on  07/03  at  02:30 AM

paul:

That takes us back to straight-men-as-pervs, only from a slightly different direction: because they’re incapable of appreciating shoes or a shirt or a haircut from an aesthetic point of view (it would immediately turn them gay, after all) any pretense of such appreciation must actually be an expression of desire-to-hump.

Which, as a straight guy who likes clothes (and — gasp! — clothes shopping), kinda pisses me off. I’ll be the first to admit that there’s quite a lot of overlap between appreciating a woman’s appearance and finding that woman attractive, but it’s really not that hard to separate them, either. I’ve seen more than enough fabulous dressers I’m not attracted to and women I lust after who dress like schlumps to know how to do that.

Comment #43: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  07/03  at  02:58 AM

I’m so old-fashioned-gentlemanly that I call a teddy a “Theodore”.

Canuckistani for the win!

Comment #44: taijiya  on  07/03  at  11:15 AM

The “straight men can’t appreciate women’s appearances in an aesthetic way” meme is interesting to me. Robert Plotkin on Project Runway aside, where does the idea come from that it’s the gayest of the gay for a man to want to design women’s clothes or cut their hair? Is it because you’re trying to make women look nice when you’re probably never going to sleep with them, and only a gay guy would want to make a woman look nice so other men can enjoy fucking her more? That’s just a guess; I really don’t have the first clue.

I confess I don’t always understand straight men. But from observation, I think this is less complex than you imagine. It’s cooties. Touching feminine things will turn men gay. Those who want to do this regularly must already be gay; straight men would shield themselves from infection. Apparently, even eating pussy will feminize a man.

Fear of “gayness” in particular is incidental to this. Any psychological weapon that can enforce strict gender roles would suffice: dick will retreat into body, father will omit son from will, etc.

Comment #45: Grammar RWA  on  07/03  at  01:13 PM
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