There must be a word to describe how stupid this man’s opinions are…

Goldbergian?

[Insert long screed here about how using the G-word is offensive because of when the N-words put the J-words into the O-word]

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra

Just note how fast the rules change. When the conservative spouts idiocy, the issue is not what he said or why he said it, but his right to say it, and critics are lambasted for “denying” that right. When the conservative is criticized, the issue isn’t the speaker’s rights, but suddenly things shift to the issue at hand.

It’s a shell game.

It isn’t even a shell game, it’s just hypocrisy.  They honestly don’t care if they’re caught, they’re that wrapped up in their own personal world of crazed hatred.  The argument that Hume shouldn’t badger Woods into christianity on air is fairly silly.  Who cares what he says?  I don’t, Woods doesn’t, so why should anybody else care that the idiot blathered about Christianity?  He isn’t a political body and thus has the freedom to speak out no matter how stupid he is. 

Course, I do find it ironic that Gerson targeted the professors of our american universities even though they’re essentially the most learned people in the country.  Populism with a dash of no-nothing is getting even funnier.  Who do you think trained Gerson?  People who were trained at universities…yet he lambastes them as a whole.  But on the same token as hume, who cares if Emmanuel uses Retard to describe opponents who he perceives as sub-average intelligence.  He isn’t re-purposing the word more than what children on the playground do.  It’s an adjective that is used in a derogatory sense but I doubt he plans to go to a group home and push them down the stairs. 

The fact that Palin decided to keep her baby after knowing it would lead a horrid life of barely existing and hoping to find some functionality is her choice.  That poor child has to exist and deal with the shortcomings genetics handed it but to get on the high horse over somebody using the word is a bit much, didn’t pandagon point out that Rush used the word not more than a week later and she explained it away?  She’s willing to sell her soul for that political power.  Shame her down syndrome child has to suffer that life.

Hey, freedom of speech is freedom of speech!  But there is no freedom from being criticized for what you have said.

Temba, his arms wide.

“a horrid life of barely existing”?

Because he’s a Palin, or because he has Down Syndrome?  Either way, you’re an ass.

Because DS is not a death sentence nor does it mean a “horrid life of barely existing”.

“Retard” as a verb is a perfectly fine word.  “Retard” as a noun is an insulting epithet that shows no respect for the human beings involved.  Feel free to use it, but own what you say.  It’s not an innocuous, acceptable retort.

pharmakos FTW, BTW.

Xeraner wrote:

The fact that Palin decided to keep her baby after knowing it would lead a horrid life of barely existing and hoping to find some functionality is her choice.  That poor child has to exist and deal with the shortcomings genetics handed it

Sometimes how people write is more revealing than they believe.

Scanned the article to see if Gerson went after Palin for her use of “lame” in “lamestream media,” which the physically disabled might have an objection to. Surprisingly, there was none. Anyone shocked?

More outrageous hypocrisy concerning the use of the word ‘retard” (and Sarah Palin) and then even some more yet on top of that. 

Both of Gerson’s columns, by the way, are atrocious. Too bad the Washington Post does not provide links to its comments (another problem with the Post, among many).

pharmakos FTW, BTW.

For a Star Trek reference?

I bet you find Monty Python deep and edgy, Caren…

Shaka, when the walls fell.

What a strange reaction, Phoenician.  Someone just appreciated a goofy sci fi reference. 

Are you just mad it wasn’t Doctor Who?  Would that have been subversive or edgy enough to acceptably giggle at?

I was kind of referring to his post because I have no clue what the N, J, and O words are. I’m guessing G was government. Sorry Pheonician.

Hey, freedom of speech is freedom of speech!  But there is no freedom from being criticized for what you have said.

oooo…. look who’s so quick to leap to the defense of a creepy former speechwriter of a failed administration!

And PiaToR, you’re the one who insists on leaping into Every.Single.Thread with an unfunny one-liner. Don’t go around mocking someone else’s witticism in the comments section. You’re in no position.

And PiaToR, you’re the one who insists on leaping into Every.Single.Thread with an unfunny one-liner. Don’t go around mocking someone else’s witticism in the comments section. You’re in no position.

*sigh* I must remember that affectionate mockery doesn’t play well on the net.

I was kind of referring to his post because I have no clue what the N, J, and O words are. I’m guessing G was government. Sorry Pheonician.

G = Goldbergian, riffing off Jesse’s comment.  The rest was Godwinning.

IMHO people who go off on rants about how bad the term “retard” is and how it offends people with handicaps must promise never to use terms like “stupid”, “insane”, “crazy”, or “lame” either.

And some of them actually do that, Albert. Have a look at the <a href=“http://disabledfeminists.com/category/ableist-word-profile/” target=“_blank”>Abelist Word Profile</i> series on Feminists with Disabilities. You really shouldn’t assume that people who object to that term are just blowing smoke out their asses.

Really, why is that particular word so sacred to people that they go off on tirades defending it? I just don’t get it.

Abelist Word Profile proper HTML now. Yay. And I even bothered to preview it.

Dana @ #11:  At the time Bible Spice made her decision it was a fetal it, not a person - right referent.

Really, why is that particular word so sacred to people that they go off on tirades defending it? I just don’t get it.
Comment #21: Quijotesca on 02/14 at 09:39 PM

It’s the principle, Q.  I don’t have a problem with not using “retard” at/about a person of less than 3-digit IQ.  I do have a problem when I get looked at askance for using it in any other context, or when referring to it without people realizing the use/referent distinction and Palin and her ilk are too stupid, i.e their mental development was retarded at some point, thus their current condition of stupid.
 

Over time, a new word will replace it as an insult, then we remove that word, ad infinitum - and does “retard” then come back into usage ?  How do we know when the word hits the list of “no use?”  Who decides?  Whatever happened to that other playground rule - sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me? 

I will not be reduced to censoring my own speech - what’s next?  Adults going around saying H. E. double hockey sticks because some fundernut finds mention of Hades offensive?  derogatory against those not of the “Elect?”

I’m off to listen to some George Carlin.  Fuckin’ hell, I miss that man.

Really, why is that particular word so sacred to people that they go off on tirades defending it? I just don’t get it.

There is a strong case to be made that you just shouldn’t insult people, especially by using metaphorical personal attacks that are not pertinent to their specific problem. Unless we’re going to make a “all insults are off the table” rule (which Palin certainly doesn’t abide by), some terms are just going to be insulting, but not considered “taboo.”

Because once we go there, we end up in the natural destination of the Ableist Word Profile which, when criticizing the use of halfwit/nitwit/fuckwit goes on to explain:

witty is usually associated with being “clever,” there are actually some ableist overtones to this sense of the word as well, like the idea that you need to be “clever” to be funny, and that some types of humour are more valuable than others.

!!

There is a strong case to be made that you just shouldn’t insult people, especially by using metaphorical personal attacks that are not pertinent to their specific problem.

Emanuel is getting criticised for calling a policy “fucking retarded”.  Now, I don’t know whether it is fucking retarded or not - it seems to me that the Obama Administration’s politics themselves have been fucking retarded - but isn’t there a distinct difference between calling a policy fucking retarded and calling a person a fucking retard?

He was calling liberals “fucking retarded”, not a policy.  He was referring to liberals running commercials targeting the handful of senators opposed to the public option (Baucus, Nelson, Landrieu, Lincoln).  If Rahm should be fired, it will be for insulting the liberal Democratic base/the people who got Obama elected, not the term itself.

Emanuel is getting criticised for calling a policy “fucking retarded”.  Now, I don’t know whether it is fucking retarded or not - it seems to me that the Obama Administration’s politics themselves have been fucking retarded - but isn’t there a distinct difference between calling a policy fucking retarded and calling a person a fucking retard?

Not when one is still using the word in manner that denigrates people with mental disabilities.

Question: Perhaps it’s bias on my part, being a person for whom the retard label sticks, but why do I constantly read people stating that they aren’t going to “censor” themselves when it comes to simply not using the word “retard(ed)” in a way that unfairly insults and degrades a group of people who already posses little social status? I don’t often read statements from people saying that they aren’t going to censor themselves over words like “fag” or “nigger.” What makes the word retarded so precious that people would prefer to continue to use the word in the face of objection rather than figure out a way to say something in a fashion that isn’t ableist/disableist?

Darmok, and Jalad . . . on the ocean.

nice post.Thank you for taking the time to publish this information very useful!

Tiger’s religion is a legacy from his mother, so Brit Hume is also suggesting that Tiger reject his mother’s teachings. But I wonder what would have happened if a prominent black commentator had suggested that Tiger should turn to the stern, demanding faith of Islam in the wake of his infidelities? Would Gerson have been as sympathetic?

As I typed previously, the only way saying “retard” could have offended Palin is if (a) she thought of her son as a retard, and (2) she resented the unfair comparison of him to liberals.

But if the new “no retards” rule holds, I guess this means calling people of normal intelligence who fail to use good judgment “morons” and “imbeciles” is out as well, because those words were used to describe those who fell into the IQ ranges that Down syndrome people typically fall into. Used, until that is, the new euphemism of “mentally retarded” replaced them. Unfortunately, the implied optimism that morons, imbeciles, and yes, even idiots would catch up with the normal, can no longer be detected.

I want to address this with a bit more specifically.

It’s the principle, Q.  I don’t have a problem with not using “retard” at/about a person of less than 3-digit IQ.  I do have a problem when I get looked at askance for using it in any other context, or when referring to it without people realizing the use/referent distinction and Palin and her ilk are too stupid, i.e their mental development was retarded at some point, thus their current condition of stupid.

The word an inherently refers to the mentally disabled when used in the pejorative as it wouldn’t be used in the pejorative if society didn’t think labeling people or things as being like a person with mental disabilities as such a negativism.

Over time, a new word will replace it as an insult, then we remove that word, ad infinitum - and does “retard” then come back into usage ?  How do we know when the word hits the list of “no use?” Who decides?  Whatever happened to that other playground rule - sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me?

I’m going to answer this in list format.

1. I don’t have a time machine to go into the future to answer that.
2. When the minority group the word refers to has decided it has had enough.
3. The minority group the word refers to.
4. Usually when people grow up they realize that words and names can be extremely harmful, damaging things, so the “playground rule” becomes invalid. Dehumanization by society leads to chronic physical harming of the dehumanized group.

I will not be reduced to censoring my own speech - what’s next?  Adults going around saying H. E. double hockey sticks because some fundernut finds mention of Hades offensive?  derogatory against those not of the “Elect?”

Oh god… You’re comparing the objections by members of a minority group to the harm they are being caused to the fee-fees of a member of one of the most powerful groups in the country as if there is some sort of symmetry between the two? Really? Well you are with your strawman.

But if the new “no retards” rule holds, I guess this means calling people of normal intelligence who fail to use good judgment “morons” and “imbeciles” is out as well, because those words were used to describe those who fell into the IQ ranges that Down syndrome people typically fall into. Used, until that is, the new euphemism of “mentally retarded” replaced them.

I’d say that any term that refers to mental or physical disability should not be used as an insult or pejorative. It’s really not that hard to find a different and better way to say something than say “that’s stupid” or “he’s being an idiot” or “that’s lame.”

Unfortunately, the implied optimism that morons, imbeciles, and yes, even idiots would catch up with the normal, can no longer be detected.

Could you explain what you mean by this sentence. I’m not understanding it.

I just have to delurk to say that I totally agree with Caren on this issue.

Having grown up with a sister with developmental disabilities, I know from first hand experience that retard packs and emotional punch that stupid and moron just do not.  Which is why I think people get so fucking pouty about the idea that they should avoid using it.  It means something extra offensive which is why it is so important to them that they get to use this one specific word.

“a horrid life of barely existing”?

Because he’s a Palin, or because he has Down Syndrome?  Either way, you’re an ass.

Because DS is not a death sentence nor does it mean a “horrid life of barely existing”.

“Retard” as a verb is a perfectly fine word.  “Retard” as a noun is an insulting epithet that shows no respect for the human beings involved.  Feel free to use it, but own what you say.  It’s not an innocuous, acceptable retort.

Have you worked personally with down syndrome children?  If you have you have taken a different experience than I have from the work.  Between BA & grad school I worked for a time with a prominent group home situation where we had retarded children, autistic, and down syndrome cases.  The more severe cases were going through the motions of a person.  I firmly believe that children we know have this should be aborted because they will drain resources away viable children, I know, it’s soul crushing but witnessing how we use resources in a system that is designed to “cure” retardation because admitting the best we can do is cope is not acceptable. 

To reflect back, I wasn’t saying using retarded as an insult was valid, merely a free speech issue that didn’t need the hypocrisy of political attacks around it.  I never use “retarded” as an insult and never have.

Sometimes how people write is more revealing than they believe.

Yes, I called the baby an it because I couldn’t remember what sex it was off the top of my head.  It is a he, a boy.  Just because I used it doesn’t make some sort of callus uncaring bastard.  But if we’re going to play the “generalization to support my viewpoint” game, then leave me out.  I try not to read too much into anything.  Just because you claim to have more caring than I do, does make it true.

He was calling liberals “fucking retarded”, not a policy. 

The link above (Check It 07.07) reads:

“A recent post illustrated the frightening yet typical hypocrisy of former half term Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, as she called for Obama Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel to be fired for calling a liberal pro health care reform attack ad strategy “f**king retarded” (based on his use of the word “retard”), yet initially had no problem with, and even said she “agreed” with, Rush Limbaugh when Limbaugh also used the word, and called liberals themselves, “retards,” multiple times, publicly.”

Is this correct or incorrect?

On a related topic, I’m counting down until Family Guy gets an earful from Palin over tonight’s episode.

Sometimes it’s hard to distinguish between a policy and those who advocate the policy, either way Rahm is wrong and should be fired.  The dude has always been an impediment to liberals, you never saw Bush’s Chief of Staff refer to his base in a negative light.

Darmok, and Jalad . . . on the ocean.

Tiresias in teh Thebes (grecian), speeking to deaders

(<a href=“http://walkingwithghosts.blogspot.com/2010/02/im-in-ur-wasteland-burying-ur-dead.html”>Link - that just cracks me up)

Damn - Link

That was fucking awesome!

Although far more brief it kind of reminds me of this:

Gods chase
Round vase.
What say?
What play?
Don’t know.
Nice, though.

“I’d say that any term that refers to mental or physical disability should not be used as an insult or pejorative. “
That pretty much rules out the majority of English insults not based on bodily functions or religion…

Listen, you fuckheads who don’t understand why people don’t like the term “retard”.

It’s an insult.  The fuckhead troll at the top of the thread doesn’t even think Trig deserves to live b/c life with DS must be a horrid existence.

Really?  Seems to me that my son, mom, and brother—who has DS—had a lot of fun going to “Percy Jackson and The Lightning Thief”  Sunday is family day, but my brother had to leave early to go back to his college-campus like home b/c of a Valentines dance.  He was awfully proud of his new duds, for some<i>thing<i> that shouldn’t be alive.  Maybe Dad should have just shoved him into the street on the way home.

My whole life I’ve told assholes to stop using “retarded” as an insult.  “Retard” is just upping it.  My brother is a human being, not an insult.  Sort of like women are human beings, and calling someone a “pussy”, “cunt”, or “little girl” as an insult is unacceptable behavior.

I most certainly am insulting everyone of you using “retard” when I call you “fuckheads”.  I mean it. 

The difference is “fuckhead” can be anyone. 

Be specific in your insults, or own up the fact that you’re an asshole.  Either way.  But don’t go running around whining that you can’t say “retard” without someone getting offended.  You’re the asshole here.

OK, I’m probably not going to make any sense here, but I’m not going to pretend my viewpoint is completely rational and unbiased since I’m the parent of a child with Down syndrome. Particularly when the last time I got pissed at someone using the word “retard” I was in massive PMS mode and made the mistake of calling someone out on it on an MMO. Their response being, “You’re the one who decided to get knocked up and not have an abortion.” Annnyway….

I don’t LIKE the use of the word “retarded” as an insult, but I can deal with it. Generally it is directed at a behavior or an inanimate object (ie, “My computer is being retarded today”). If someone that I am around a lot uses is, like at work, I might politely ask them to find another word, just as I might if someone was using the word “gay” in the same manner, but it’s not a huge deal.

The word “retard”, used as a pejorative noun as opposed to a verb meaning “to slow”- that I have an issue with. While I am aware that “lame”, “moron”, “idiot” and other such words were initially medical terms or referring to disabilities the meaning has shifted so much over time they really aren’t associated with the conditions they described. “Retard” hasn’t hit that point and is used in a very ugly manner. I would no sooner use it as I would “fag” or “nigger”. (And it just took a lot of effort to even get myself to type those.) Mental handicaps are one of the few areas it seems to be ok to make fun of or lay blame for.

And @Xerenar for post 6… fuck off. You obviously have no idea what Down syndrome is or encompasses.

Have you worked personally with down syndrome children?  If you have you have taken a different experience than I have from the work

More than that, Fuckhead, my younger brother has Down Syndrome.  I’ve LIVED 24/7 with a human being who is about as mentally retarded as people with DS get PLUS has oral motor apraxia, which means he loses vocabulary and doesn’t talk much at all anymore.

He’s a happier person than I am, even though he’s smart enough to know he’s retarded and I got a degree from Stanford.

He lives in a group home of 12 guys in a “Village” of the same type of homes on a college-like campus.  The facility has a continuum of care from CILAs (independent homes in the neighborhood) to full service nursing facilities for those who are immobile/bedridden.  He comes home every Sunday, just like I and my siblings do, for our family get-togethers and my kids adore him.

I’ve also seen institutions where people with DS were simply locked away.  It’s the type of place my mom was told to send my brother.  With no mental stimulation, they—like ANY human—can just sit around, get fat, and suck their tongues.  It’s not much of an existence, but it’s the FACILITY, not the human being that’s the problem.

Do us all a favor, Xeranar, and stay the fuck away from anyone with a handicap.  You don’t have enough empathy, and they deserve better.

Piotr,

You can go check at Media Matters, but Rush said “retard” or “retarded” 40 times or so on his show within about an hour, including something like “what’s wrong with calling a retard a retard?”

Sarah defended him as using sarcasm.  See, they actually agree about everything, being conservatives, so they can’t possibly be in a fight! 

Palin doesn’t understand what “sarcasm” means.  She thinks it’s just something ‘liebruls’ say when they get caught saying something.  Call it ‘sarcasm’ and it means the opposite.  It’s part of that elitism.

As for Rahm, the best thing about Obama picking him was he’s no longer my representative.  He’s a slimeball weasel with a proven failed track record.  He’d be fine to use as a pitbull, if Obama used him that way, but he doesn’t.  He listens to him and agrees with him, and that’s a recipe for failure.

I’m going to end up being late for work now but I just have to add to Caren’s postings here-

My daughter thus far is on the other end of the spectrum from her brother, she is 14 and so far is reading at about a second grade level, does double-digit addition/subtraction, is learning how to write in cursive, and is a boy-crazy teenager like most of the girls in her school. She is bright, happy, and loves everyone.

Even assholes who would think she shouldn’t live.

While I absolutely support the right of women to abort based on a Down syndrome diagnosis in-utero, I don’t see ANY reason to somehow think that a person with DS who is here and alive is in any way better off dead. Anyone who does is an uneducated fuckwit, to put it mildly.

I’m not understanding it.

“Mental retardation” implied that the low IQ person was merely slow, that he would comprehend at the level of a “normal” person given enough time. It was a positive spin on a condition that would prevent the person from comprehending a great many things that “normals” can understand.

Don’t these idiots realize that a westerner criticizing oppressive Islamic customs and there are many) probably does more harm than good? It’s up to people from a Muslim background themselves to do that.
Tend to your own garden etc.

And I’m being generous there—usually western right-wing criticism of Islam isn’t constructive at all, it’s more like trolling—HAHA I DREW MUHAMMAD WITH A BOMB ON A HEAD CAUSE I COULD!! THAT MUST MAKE Y’ALL MAD HUH?