Wow, that guy is nutty.  I wonder if this stands out as the writer being wrong because columnists would rather support the writer, so they don’t publish the “How can I get my girlfriend to go along with my douchey controlling tendencies?” letters.

Dude, THIS. I read this letter and was like…the fuck?? What kind of loser douche is this guy? And I mean…he’s whining and pissing and moaning like this because she “made out” with these guys…as far as he says, she didn’t even fuck them! (Not that if she had, he’d be validated…he’d still be an ass, but it just seems exponentially more ridiculous for him to be this flipped out over some damn kissing.) I agree that the woman needs to get this guy out of her life NOW. I hope she’s a Prudie reader and realizes who the letter writer is…

I also strongly question the “who is still in love with her” thing. It’s tossed off, and he doesn’t mention the girlfriend saying that. Wouldn’t surprise me if she didn’t, and he’s just being paranoid.

This guy is nutty and controlling and she should definitely get away from him, but to say six months is too early to think someone’s the love of your life is a little harsh.  Different people work differently on these things.

Moves too fast is a big red flag. Maybe if there were no others….but even then, it’s one of the biggest. I’ve never seen a non-abusive guy who wasn’t willing to slow his roll and let things develop naturally. “Love of my life” is a big phrase. Personally, I wouldn’t use it until you’ve been together a couple of decades and it’s an established fact.

I read that and seriously thought it was a closeted abuser writing in. She made out with some other guys while single and he’s so petty he’d guilt trip “the love of his life” into boycotting (or at least explaining his absence at her expense) her best friend’s fucking wedding day because he can’t stand to be in the same general vicinity as some guy who kissed his gf sometime. All the signs of an emotional abuser, I think, and definitely the signs of a seriously petty asshole.

Well, to be fair, we don’t know whether the young man in question attends Westboro Baptist Church. (Isn’t one of Fred Phelps’s daughters a lawyer? What law school did she attend?)

We also don’t know if the young man is writing from some compound in Idaho or southern Utah where the manners and morals are somewhat out of step with society at large. (He doesn’t say if the love of his life is going to be his only wife, or if in fact she’s his first wife at all. This could explain a lot. He’ll probably loosen up by the time he waltzes Co-Wife #3 down the aisle. Or at least that’s what happened, more or less, on Big Love.)

I also wonder if he might not be from one of those indigenous groups in South America (or is it Papua New Guinea?) that have a kissing taboo. (In many cultures saliva is considered ritually impure.) If so, it’s understandable that he’d be miffed after learning that the love of his life “made out” with three of the groomsmen. His beloved is contaminated with saliva. She very well may need an exorcism from a shaman or something like that before she can marry anyone. Or maybe she just needs to purify herself by bathing in a body of still water that’s never been gazed upon by a male. Who knows?

I think there are many things we must first take into consideration before jumping the gun and indicting this fellow as a fruitcake or nutbird.

I’m sure there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation for his “weird” indignation. After all, whoever heard of a crazy attorney?

Up until your “He’s going to fight you,” I had assumed that the person writing the letter was female. I’m guessing because of the accompanying photo. It was confusing. I had no idea where it was going, just that it seemed like she was concerned with the number of men her girlfriend made out with.

It doesn’t make any more sense knowing that a male wrote it. How is this an issue? If you love her, go to the wedding; it’ll be fun and provide an opportunity to see her in a nice dress, converse over a fancy meal, and dance with her.

Here’s my response:

Dear Young Man in Love,

Before doing or saying anything you’ll ultimately regret, you first need to secure a fairly large amount of your girlfriend’s hair while she’s menstruating. (The only tricky part is that she must not know that you’ve taken a fairly large amount of her hair. I know this may sound fussy or needlessly complicating, but Lucifer’s rules are not our rules. And if you want His help, you must play by His rules, all the way. Or else.)

Once you’ve obtained the hair, you need to boil it in a copper pot with a great deal of vinegar. (Apple cider or white. It really doesn’t matter. Just avoid the “seasoned” vinegars. And bottled salad-dressing that contains vinegar is entirely out of the question. So don’t even try it.) This can smell quite unpleasant, so you might want to do it outdoors. Once the amount of liquid has been reduced by half and has cooled, pour it into a bottle made of clay. Seal with a cork. (You can use one from an old wine bottle. It doesn’t matter.)

Go to a remote forest. Build a fire. Remove all your clothing and cast it into the fire. When the moon rises, pour drops of the vinegar into the fire while gazing at the flames. If your girlfriend is in love with one of the groomsmen she kissed, the flames will magically form an image of his face. (You might want to use sunglasses, depending on the size, and strength, of your fire. But do not use sunglasses with polarized lenses or you could ruin everything.)

No face in the flames? Mazel tov! Your girlfriend is true to you, and only to you.

Before leaving your campsite, sacrifice three oxen and wash your hands and feet in their blood. (Unless you aren’t afraid of having your flesh clawed off by demons, you won’t forget this final, crucial step.)

Best of luck to you.

Hail Satan!

Sincerely,

HdT

He came across as just a run of the mill insecure, immature kid not ready for a relationship until he got to the “those are the repercussions of her actions” part. Then he jumped out as “controlling creep.”

Moves too fast is a big red flag. Maybe if there were no others….but even then, it’s one of the biggest. I’ve never seen a non-abusive guy who wasn’t willing to slow his roll and let things develop naturally. “Love of my life” is a big phrase.

You really shouldn’t be lumping these two together. My husband moved pretty fast emotionally (faster than me—take that stereotypes!), but NEVER pushed me or the relationship. From the outside it would look like things went fast, but it was the natural progression and always mutual.

The LW mentions that one of the groomsmen still has a thing for her. Which is irrelevant.  Unless she still has a crush on one of them, it has no effect on the relationship between the LW and GF.

I just got an e-mail from Caitlan Flanagan.  She says that none of you women will find a steady boyfriend and therefore happiness with those kinds of attitudes.

Kids with their “making out.” Blech!

This guy is all kinds of messed up and his girlfriend needs to get the fuck out of that relationship ASAP.  There is no world in which it is any of his business who or how many guys she made out with (or fucked, even) before they were together and for him to be so overwrought and dramatic about it is seriously fucked up. 

However, I have to agree with desenada @ 4.  As far as how long they’ve been together, different people move at different speeds and, while I agree that many people would want to go a lot slower than that, six months doesn’t seem like that short a time to me.  I was engaged less than six months after meeting my husband.  We’ve been married for almost 14 years now and so far, so good. 

I’ll admit, that is too fast for a lot of people, but that by itself doesn’t really signify all that much to me.  I’m more worried about this guy acting like he owns his girlfriend now and being so upset that she kissed somebody else before they were together.  *That* is the giant, waving, red flag to me.

Amanda, I thought the same re: your comment at 3. Why would he give no evidence/explanation for his idea that one of these guys is “still in love with her” if it was true? It really seems like he noticed the rest of his letter was full of douchebaggery and threw it in to make himself appear more reasonable.

Nothing much to add but, Word.  Get the heck out of there.  Here’s a guy with whom you can’t be open and vulnerable, because he’s going to use your honesty as a weapon against you.  There’s no way that relationship is not going to turn toxic.

Who cares if somebody is or isn’t still in love with her?  She’s a big girl and can say “no” if she wants to.

I could see how this girlfriend knows he’s a controlling ass and played it up to get more attention. Fucked up people come with all sorts of gonads. While I think he’s definitely an idiot even if he isn’t a violent idiot (not that that’s the line required to label him as abusive,) I’d really need to know under what context the information was conveyed to have a clear idea whether it’s him or her or both of them should run away. That relationship is unhealthy, but it’s quite possible there’s more than one immature brat involved.

She said I should consider how she feels, having to participate in a wedding along with these guys.

Huh? If she actually said that, she’s playing the victim in a twisted way. It doesn’t take an in-depth analysis of the concept of the unreliable narrator to doubt much of what’s said by him. But I think either she actually believes she’s suffering having to be around men she once fooled around with or she had to come up with some story because she’s dating an insane person. I’ll split the difference and suggest that these two should just choose opposing cardinal directions and skedaddle.

I don’t know, I suppose it is possible that she is faintly embarrassed by being surrounded by guys she has made out with. Or maybe she was just saying that in response to a “Well I’ll be very uncomfortable at this wedding now!” from him, I mean now if he is there she is definitely going to be uncomfortable now as he stews trying to figure out which guy kissed her and whether he is walking too comfortably next to her or some nonsense. Yep, that would make me uncomfortable all right!

Although I decided to think about how I’d feel if my boyfriend approached me saying he’d been asked to be in a wedding and he’d made out with two bridesmaids and the maid-of-honor. I’d probably high-five him. Or laugh because he’d feel all awkward and it would be sort of funny. Decide that I need to stay home because of the emotional strain of seeing my SO around people he locked lips with once upon a time? Nope, not striking me as a reasonable reaction.

It’s important to point out that his feelings about her are irrelevant. Abuse is abuse. And definitely—the faster a guy pulls in with the “LOVE OF MY LIFE” bullshit, the bigger the red flag.

And you know what? I guy is totally allowed to have “feelings” about your sexual past before you got together with him. Everyone is, after all, entitled to their feelings. But the *second* he uses those feelings as a weapon against you, it’s done.

Do not fucking apologize for who you were before you met him.
Kevin Smith made a whole movie about this.

Also, I’m so sick of people prefacing “Oh don’t get me wrong I love my kids but…” or “Oh this person is the love of my life but…” That’s such a weak-ass thing to say and it’s so obvious you want out but can’t get over the “I don’t want people to think I’m a bad person because I made a huge fucking mistake” stigma.

I’d like to know the psychology behind this. I can’t understand why he cares about what she did before being with him? I mean if my girlfriend makes out with 3 guys while still being with me, then yeah I’m going to be upset. She should break out with me first, then go with others or at least let me know so I know what’s going on.

It’s like hello, welcome to the vegetarian club. You can’t join if you used to eat meat last year.

The ‘repercussions’ he is talking about are her own admission that she is uncomfortable having to be in this wedding with these people.  That is indeed a repercussion.

I agree it would be douchey of him not to go to the wedding, but the issue is not just that she made out with people before him, only whether he wants to go to a wedding are three of them will be, where she’ll be walking arm-in arm with one of them.  That’s still really insecure and pathetic, but it’s not just freaking out about the simple fact that she had a sex life before him.

And yet another scenario: I can’t remember ever knowing who was picked to be groomsmen before being asked to be a bridesmaid; you might have a pretty good guess if you all have the same friends or are familiar with the groom, but wedding details like that usually come after you’ve been asked to participate. So chances are this girl got asked to be a bridesmaid and didn’t find out who the groomsmen and her isle-walking buddy were until later. Upon finding out that the bridal party included guys she’d been involved with before, she complained to her boyfriend “oh, man. I have to see Bob, Joe, and Dave again” “What’s the problem with them honey?” and then she fills him in on their history. Maybe they were as trollish as this letter writer comes off, or maybe she’s embarrassed having to interact with people she feels she acted slutty around, or maybe she was a cad and blew them off when they tried calling her the next day. Whatever went down, this seems like a case of a guy making his girlfriends personal issues all about him and then blaming her for it.

@16 it doesn’t matter in terms of the bigger picture here, but I can see why going to a wedding with someone who’s in unrequited love with you could be awkward for the woman herself (and effect the general mood of the party), irrespective of her partner’s neurosis. That’s a little bit different from him simply being angry that she kissed other guys before him, since it has to do with a situation that normal people might feel uncomfortable with.

That said, since it seems she didn’t find it awkward enough to not want to attend the wedding, you’re probably right that we can discount the idea that it matters at all even if its true.

*affect. Damn hononyms.

I know one guy whose fiance died. Decades ago. He never recovered, never married.

There seems this glibness, fully embraced in this article, that men can’t be hurt by women’s actions, and should never, ever, take any measures to protect themselves. After all “he got lucky” , right? Never any downside for the man, right?

Newt Gingrich was seduced by his High School Math teacher. And then he somehow developed issues with women! I mean, this can’t be cause he was molested as a minor by an older women, cause like, he is a man! HE GOT LUCKY. Now a woman in his place would be expected to have all sorts of problems, but men, well, they can’t be hurt, so that means you can do whatever you want to them! Woo-hoo for you!

Man:“So you’ve discarded ten men before me? Giving my heart to you doesn’t seem particularly safe…”

Pumpkin:“Why should how many men I’ve discarded in the past have any bearing on the chance of me discarding you?”

Man:“How could it not?”

Pumpkin:“Someone has issues with having his heart ripped out.”

Man:“And a real man wouldn’t care if you ripped his heart out?”

Pumpkiin:“A real man only cares about my heart, about me.”

Man:“That seems somewhat self-serving.”

And indeed it is. Completely and totally self-serving.

I ran the letter through the Gender Reversal Thingamabobby and written by a woman, it’s just as pathetic.

klp786, that has fuck all to do with the post.

Considering how Newt ended the relationship with said math teacher, I can’t shed any tears for him.
(No seriously, I’m on this new glaucoma medication, and I don’t seem to be able to make ‘crying’ type tears!)

Men lie and call their hate love, and everyone hurts more to sometimes to death for it.

Who cares if the other guys still loves her?  So what?  It happens.  People aren’t always compatible in a relationship yet one or more still has feelings.  That’s called being human.  Being a grown-up means accepting that and moving on with your life.

What kinda of douche is angry that someone is able to still be friends with people she dated, or who dated her friends when starting out life?

Either “making out” is even more fun than it used to be, or this guy has yet to make it in.

Re:  Comment #19: Mighty Ponygirl on 01/20 at 11:12 PM

I got a shoe in the face watching that movie and broke an incisor.  It’s not his best movie, but it is a great example of bad behavior on the part of the main character.

Man:“So you’ve discarded ten men before me? Giving my heart to you doesn’t seem particularly safe…”

Pumpkin:“Why should how many men I’ve discarded in the past have any bearing on the chance of me discarding you?”

Firstly, I object to the use “discarded” in this context.

Secondly, I don’t see how the number of previous relationships she’s had does have a bearing on her chances of staying with him.

@Crissa #30: The kind of douche who, among other things, sees relationships as primarily things that reflect on him. Who sees them—as our media constantly encourages us to do—as badges of proof that he’s got it. Clearly, because he failed to inspire her to toss aside all her feelings for her old flames, that’s an indictment of his ability to charm a lover.

The thing is, it IS an indictment of his personality and character, all right… just not the one he thinks.

@BenYitzhak #33: I see that as an awkward form of “past behavior is is the best indication of future behavior”. He sees the stats about, OMG, women catching up to men in terms of cheating; and therefore he concludes that the best way to inoculate himself against her cheating is to pounce on any indication that she “might” cheat on him or ditch him in the future. That sounds like, in addition to all his other unsavory qualities, a guy who believes that people don’t change and are held hostage to their past behaviors all their lives.

Amanda, if you like advice columns, you should check out Captain Awkward. She’s totally awesome and hilarious.

http://captainawkward.com/

If making out with some people in the past blows this dude’s lobe, I sure hope he never dates anyone who is divorced.  I mean, come on.  Grow the fuck up.  People have pasts.  They have probably fucked and/or made out with a lot of people.

And klp786, this post has nothing to do with Newt Gingrich, who is an asshole, regardless of what happened to him.  You don’t get to go around being an asshole just because you were mistreated or abused.

You also don’t get to make judgments about people’s ability to commit because they have had past relationships that didn’t work out.  If it makes you personally uncomfortable to date someone who has dated a few people in their past, that is fine.  But you don’t get to sit in judgment of their morality or ability to commit or whatever.  You weren’t there.  You don’t know what was going on in those relationships, and that also gives no leeway for people to grow and change and mature.

You, sir, are an asshole.  Good day.  I SAID GOOD DAY.

“new glaucoma medication”

So that’s what the kids are calling it these days.

By the way, guys who get really serious really fast are also ones to look out for.

Hell to the YES they are.  A proposal of marriage on the second date is not the stuff of romantic comedies, it’s a warning sign.  I’ve seen this more than once, and know more than one woman who said “Yes” only to now be trapped in an abusive marriage.

I’ve said my piece. No one said you can’t feel wildly and hyperbolically in love. But secure, thoughtful people know that it’s important to take it slow, anyway. If it’s really, truly the love of your life, you’ll have plenty of chances to say that! At your 20th wedding anniversary, when you’re writing your memoirs, etc. Saying it 6 months in smacks of trying to tie this one down and fast. Which is not necessarily the sign of an abuser, but it does suggest insecurity that is concealed with overcompensation, which is where a lot of abuse begins.

Amanda’s completely right—the “love of my life” phrasing is problematic, but if that were it, then sure.  Nobody’s perfect.  But freaking out because she’s made out with other men is red flag run far and fast and far.

3letter: wow. Your comments are victim-blame-y. As someone who knows about being mindfucked by abusive assholes from the inside, I’m about 95% positive the “think of how I’ll feel” gambit was an attempt to end his ranting and get him to remember she’s a person, too. It clearly failed, but hot damn. I’m sorry, but what someone being mindfucked does to survive and maintain a sense of self isn’t yours to judge.

I can see LW completely misunderstanding the Love of His Life’s comment. 

He throws his hissy fit about her standing up for her best friend’s wedding.  She asks him to consider her feelings.  He decides she’s upset about having to go down the aisle next to someone she made out with, when she’s really just telling him to grow the fuck up.

She told him its none of his business who she’s been with before; he’s still threatening to ditch her if she won’t ditch her best friend. 

How do you ask someone you’ve been dating for 6 months to drop out of her best friend’s wedding?  How do you put yourself in between a major event between best friends? 

You do it by not considering your partner’s wants or needs at all.

She needs to get away from him.  He’s a selfish, immature jerk at best.

The worst part about denouncing abusive men is the whiny MRAs writing florid comments, ala @25. “Don’t be a controlling jerk” is not the same thing as saying “women can’t hurt men”. And my answer to that is, “So what?” Men can hurt women’s feelings, too! Heartbreak is part of life! Beware any man who thinks that it’s outrageous that a mere woman can break a man’s heart, and that she shouldn’t be allowed.

Amanda @ #39: I wonder if his attitude is actually a form of cost-benefit analysis. “I put all this emotional investment in you and this relationship; why aren’t you giving me a good enough return?” Yet another dude who sees relationships in terms of business transactions…

Also, with all the pressure in our society to prove ourselves socially skilled, this guy is probably pissed that his girlfriend is not giving him enough proof he’s a charming guy. Because if he truly were, his scintillating personality would’ve made her forget ALL feelings about old boyfriends in her past, wouldn’t he? It’s her job to give him success in this relationship… especially since she’s “the love of his life”!

more realistic version of silly dialogue:

Man-Pumpkin:“So you’ve discarded ten men before me? Giving my heart to you doesn’t seem particularly safe…”

Woman-Pumpkin:“Right back at you; last I checked, I wasn’t marrying a virgin who’s never been kissed”

Man-Pumpkin:“That’s different”

Woman-Pumpkin::“No it’s not. And in any case, even if neither of us had ever had any previous romantic interests, that still wouldn’t be a guarantee for a ‘happily ever after’”.

Man-Pumpkin:“But I want a guarantee, and I think a woman’s virginity is it!”

Woman-Pumpkin"Someone has issues with women, I see. Sorry, but there are no guarantees against having his heart ripped out.”

Man-Pumpkin:“And a real man wouldn’t care if you ripped his heart out?”

Woman-Pumpkin::“A real man would know there are no guarantees.”

Man-Pumpkin:“That seems somewhat self-serving.”

Woman-Pumpkin::“No, just realistic.”

Amanda @43: Because heartbreak means failure in a relationship. And failure means he won’t get the chance to raise a family, be “normal” in his own eyes, our feel like he measures up to his buddies. And—oh noes—he might get a rep as Socially Awkward Guy, and lose that promotion at work to Bob who has soft skills coming out of his ears.

Seriously, this guy is way overreacting. She made out with some people? Who cares? If you can’t handle the idea that your beloved ever kissed another person before you, you are way, way too insecure to be in a relationship. (I was widowed at 28. My current boyfriend has been able to handle the often complicated feelings that go with that, which is way harder than dealing with your partner having kissed a few people. Seriously, the LW has an emotional age of 12.)

klp786, that conversation only took place in your head. You are making it up, and it reflects on you, not the LW’s girlfriend. Better check your own insecurities.

Beware any man who thinks that it’s outrageous that a mere woman can break a man’s heart, and that she shouldn’t be allowed.

Seriously. I’m supposed to get up in arms about women hurting men’s feelings, but happily acknowledge that men can do whatever they want without regard to women’s feelings? Oh, I forgot, only men’s feelings matter, and only women can be expected to care about anyone but themselves.

As is so often the case, there’s a huge overlap between guys who are destroyed by the thought that their girlfriends have been with other men and guys who are happy to slut around themselves. It’s like they’re not even enjoying the sluttery as much as the opportunity to rub their own self-declared awesomeness in other people’s faces.

3letter: wow. Your comments are victim-blame-y. As someone who knows about being mindfucked by abusive assholes from the inside, I’m about 95% positive the “think of how I’ll feel” gambit was an attempt to end his ranting and get him to remember she’s a person, too. It clearly failed, but hot damn. I’m sorry, but what someone being mindfucked does to survive and maintain a sense of self isn’t yours to judge.

I think he’s a twisted piece of retarded maturity whether or not she’s in any way being manipulative herself. Yes, some people cope in all sorts of ways to get along in bad relationships, but calling manipulative (or in this case potentially manipulative) behavior manipulative isn’t victim-blaming so much as pointing out that there’s a good chance that someone who is an immature ass just might have a chance of pairing up with someone else who isn’t equally mature. It may or may not be my place to judge, but I’ve seen many messed-up people in my life, too. Dude’s overreacting for certain, but being an abusive and manipulative shit can be a shared dynamic in a bad relationship.

Welp, I found myself nodding in agreement a little too much throughout this. I was with “that guy” for about 7 years and the breakup and emotional turmoil was exactly as Amanda describes. Yes, run away from this relationship. As fast as you can.

So she asked him for support in a weird situation for her and he gave her the opposite of support and pumped up the awkwardness then wrote into an advice column trying to get people that don’t even know him to feel sorry for him.  Yea, thats Fail.  I’m betting nobody that actually knows them would do anything but think he’s an ass and he knows it.  I see the “she is the love of my life” as a way to say he is a great person who loves her despite all the horrible things she has done in the past, its a setup as a reason for the imminent breakup, hopefully.  Yes, Run.

@kip

I know one guy whose fiance died. Decades ago. He never recovered, never married.

I remember when Richard Simmons said the same thing in a national magazine 30+ years ago.  I always wondered if there might not have been something else going on.

Yes, I think the first Mrs. Gingrich was a bit skeevy in starting the relationship with Newt and she lost a lot of sympathy points with me.  But he stayed with her for years and dumped her when she was sick and inconvenient, so she picks up points for that one.

Men can get hurt in relationships. Women can get hurt in relationships.  Noting that the guy writing the letter is giving off the vibe that he could easily become abusive is reasonable.  If a woman had written giving off the vibe that she would be controlling and abusive I would advise her partner the same way. 

Finally, to quote and enormously sappy Bread song “It doesn’t really matter how many came before you, as long as you’re the last.”  So this girl had a few fairly innocent flings in high school.  Big Deal!  Heck I don’t care if she had a few go all the way flings in high school.  She’s willing to be honest about her past and he’s willing to use it against her.  This is not likely to end well.

Run doesn’t actually seem like sage advice.  It sounds like playing the percentages of course, and that’s reasonable, but to the people actually in the relationship I don’t think it’s so binary.  Obviously this guy has tendencies that if they showed up on a first date would send people running for the door.  But he’s obviously in a caring relationship with an independent woman. 

The fact that he wrote a letter at all, even if he couldn’t really see where he was going wrong himself, is very encouraging.  He may be controlling but it’s also clear that he’s conflicted and is open to advice and to learning.  I really don’t think advising his GF to just treat him like a convicted creeper is doing her a favor.  She shut him down with a “none of your business” which is clearly the case, but didn’t reassure him.  She could have done so at no real cost to herself by highlighting that her business is her business but she’s sharing it because it’s an important aspect of her self that she wants to think she can bring to him without being judged.  If she were the one writing the letter I agree to say dump him, but if I’d got his letter first I’d think there’s something there to work with.  Prudie’s advice to breathe deep and brave it out is the kind of thing all guys should hear lest they become that bitter guy.

Amen. Both you and Pruddie had great advice. I would add that I LOVE that picture you posted. That slate blue is fantastic, and I want the dress on the brunette standing by the bride, who has a smile a mile wide on her face. I would look like that if I were wearing that dress, too.

#53 Skipjack

Who cares if there’s something there that the girlfriend can work with toward getting him to be a non-asshole? She’s not obligated to put in that kind of patience or effort. Especially since growing up into a decent person is HIS responsibility, not his girlfriend’s. If she doesn’t want to wait around on the chance he’ll grow out of his shitty behaviour, then she’s perfectly justified in running. And there are a lot of women who’ve witnessed too much crap behaviour on the part of the men around them to advise the “wait and see” strategy. If she’s lucky, he’ll turn himself around and things could be good, but if he doesn’t, this is just the first step in a downward spiral of crap treatment.

3letter: Again, I’m not prepared to judge someone who is trying to get her abusive partner to understand concepts like “I am also a human being with a subjective experience”. Sorry that most people don’t bear up well under abuse! You sound like someone who is mad that someone escaped a house fire without trying to comb their hair first.

Skip, I’m afraid that I believe women’s safety is more important than giving assholes a chance. Look, even though you reluctantly agree she should dump him, it’s clear you’re more interested in suggesting there’s a way to manipulate an abusive fuckwit to make him nicer. There isn’t. What guys like this want is for their partners to forever feel attacked and insecure, so their self-esteem is low and the abusive dude has the upper hand. Telling people being treated like this to somehow manage their partners better is the sort of thing that gets people to think there’s a solution other than leaving. There isn’t.

Men can get hurt in relationships. Women can get hurt in relationships.  Noting that the guy writing the letter is giving off the vibe that he could easily become abusive is reasonable.  If a woman had written giving off the vibe that she would be controlling and abusive I would advise her partner the same way.

I agree that the guy in the above article could very easily be a bad person who should be dumped. Asking her to not attend her friends wedding is a red flag. Sure.  But then the article let the “men are not allowed to protect themselves” flags fly aggressively.

The article said:

By the way, can we talk about the phrase “repercussions of her actions”? Any man who says this about sexual activity you engaged in as a free, single adult before you started dating him should be dumped immediately, and his angry phone calls and emails ignored and deleted. It’s not just that he’s a horrible prude and dangerously jealous.

This goes way past “man is a potential abuser” territory and right into “men have no right to protect themselves” territory. And then proves their fears quite real by threatening immediate relationship nuke for failure to comply with the Directive. How romantic. Then we are surprised to find that men feel that women might rip their hearts out for any or no reason. How ever could they have come upon that idea?

should be dumped immediately, and his angry phone calls and emails ignored and deleted

Well, I guess that would do it.

junk science said:

Seriously. I’m supposed to get up in arms about women hurting men’s feelings, but happily acknowledge that men can do whatever they want without regard to women’s feelings? Oh, I forgot, only men’s feelings matter, and only women can be expected to care about anyone but themselves.

You are engaging in projection. junk science is up in arms about men hurting women’s feelings, and happily acknowledge that women can do whatever they want without regard to the man’s feelings. Really, I must have upset her though, for such thoughts to come pouring unfiltered out of her head like that.

The reason for my post is simple. In my real life, it is really obvious that women have very little to no concern about hurting a man’s feelings in any situation.

She seems to have felt the need to deliberately tell her boyfriend about her past sexual history without his asking, and this is with men who “still have a thing for her” and then tells him she is going to be walking down an isle with them…... well then.

She said who she made out with in the past isn’t really any of my business, but she wanted to tell me so I wasn’t in the dark at the wedding.

Does it sound like he asked? It doesn’t to me. So why did she feel the need to inform him? Would you begin describing to your boyfriend all the guys you had a relationship with and what you did with them if he didn’t ask? Just, you know, to pass the time? Sound normal to you? Her behavior is a big Red Flag. I would be wondering seriously about any woman who did this to me.

Woman-Pumpkin::“A real man would know there are no guarantees.”

Man-Pumpkin:“That seems somewhat self-serving.”

Woman-Pumpkin::“No, just realistic.”

The claim “No guarantees” would not be taken seriously in most other situations in real life.

Used car salesman can’t give you the car history?

“A real woman would know there are no guarantees.”

Guy gives off a weird vibe?

“A real woman would know there are no guarantees.”

Worried about that large guy you are alone in a parking lot with late at night?

“A real woman would know there are no guarantees.”

Oh, but that’s justified fear, right? And it’s a woman being afraid, so it’s okay just because to. But what if it wasn’t justified? I have actually talked to real live women. And the idea that the best of them aren’t still given to moments of paranoid fantasy about extremely unlikely “dangers” is absurd on the face of it.  And yet I have to listen to calls that men are bad to have justified fear, in fact, they would have to be irrational(psychopathic) risk takers to meet the standards demanded. Or white-knight fools.

Seriously.

The claim “No guarantees” would not be taken seriously in most other situations in real life.

that’s of course complete fucking bullshit. as everyone know, the only things that are certain are death and taxes. Then there’s the “guarantees” in the marketplace, but as it happens, relationships are not market-based, since people aren’t commodities.

Used car salesman can’t give you the car history?

“A real woman would know there are no guarantees.”

so you’re saying women are commodities with no agency, like a car? fascinating.

Guy gives off a weird vibe?
“A real woman would know there are no guarantees.”

indeed there aren’t. if there were, no one ever would get raped or sexually harassed. I do note that you’re comparing the existence of a previous sex-life with the potential to get raped though. Says a lot about you.

Worried about that large guy you are alone in a parking lot with late at night?
“A real woman would know there are no guarantees.”

indeed, no there aren’t. And you’re still comparing the possibility of a breakup to a crime. You’re one fucked up cookie.

Or white-knight fools.

oh, I see. You’re an MRA. No wonder your ramblings have no connection to reality

You are engaging in projection. junk science is up in arms about men hurting women’s feelings, and happily acknowledge that women can do whatever they want without regard to the man’s feelings. Really, I must have upset her though, for such thoughts to come pouring unfiltered out of her head like that.

It’s cute that you think you know what projection is, since I’m sure you get accused of it all the time. Unfortunately for you, you’re an idiot. No, I’m not at all concerned about men hurting women’s feelings by having sexual pasts. If a woman wrote a letter like this to an advice column, she would also be a possessive asshole. Everyone is not a hypocrite like you in reverse. I’m sorry the world isn’t quite simple enough that every argument can be won through copy-pasting.

And yes, you did upset me. Congratulations. I usually do get upset when I see a pile of shit in the bathtub. I’m sure it feels good to know someone cares about something you did.

klp186, I suppose it might be interesting to have a discussion about relationships in which one partner is rather open about his or her penchant for cruelly dumping their partners, but this is not that discussion. This is about a guy who freaked out because his girlfriend kissed some of the groomsmen in the past.

She seems to have felt the need to deliberately tell her boyfriend about her past sexual history without his asking, and this is with men who “still have a thing for her” and then tells him she is going to be walking down an isle with them…... well then.

Heh.

1. If she didn’t tell her boyfriend about her sexual past with the other wedding party members, then you’d probably blame her for being insufficiently honest and concealing things from him.

Being honest with one’s boyfriend about one’s sexual past isn’t mean; it’s kind. And “without his asking”? As if he would ever ask, “gee, did you make out with these groomsmen?” She shouldn’t wait for him to ask first before warning him about potential awkwardness.

2. So walking down an aisle with them, as part of a wedding, is some sort of suspicious situation now? Really?

3. Did you seriously compare a person’s freak-out over their partner having a sexual past (and being HONEST about it) with fear of physical attack when you’re alone with a stranger late at night? REALLY?

Did you seriously compare a person’s freak-out over their partner having a sexual past (and being HONEST about it) with fear of physical attack when you’re alone with a stranger late at night? REALLY?

Of course he did. A man raping a woman is exactly as bad as a woman breaking up with a man, making him worry that she might dump him at some point, or making him feel insecure in any way.

It’s MRA math: Woman doing anything man doesn’t like >= man doing anything woman doesn’t like.

Jesus Kip, men have a right to “protect themselves”? From a broken heart? Why the hell would you even want to do that?
I suppose in a sense you’re right that anyone has a right to attempt to protect themselves from anything, but a broken heart is really not comparable to physical assaults etc.. I’ve had my heart broken, and yeah, it sucks mightily, but it’s not a fatal blow. Your friend who never recovered needs to grow the fuck up.

These basic truths about there being no guarantees are easier to take once you accept that women are people, I promise you. I may be strecthing to give you more credit than you deserve, but I’m guessing you don’t extend this outrage at the lack of guarantees to, say, your favourite band. Does Nickleback need to promise you to never, ever,  ever break up? To promise that they will always tour and record even if they lose 2 members in a tragic goatee trimming incident? How would you handle such a disappointment if they did just stop? Would you sue? Who would listen to your petitions? Why don’t you control the universe? It’s all so fucking unfair.

How would you handle such a disappointment if they did just stop?

After all, it’s not like that fucking slut Linkin Park is going to treat you any better.

Actually, there’s pretty much no way to “protect yourself” from a broken heart except to just not fall in love, ever. If someone’s going to break up with you, or you’re not even together yet but they’re not interested, you’re going to find out eventually. All you can do is delay the inevitable.

Anyway, kip is clearly a troll and a misogynistic, delusional one at that so maybe we shouldn’t feed him.

I’m with ewellone at 51 and then some. Especially because people get drunk at wedding receptions and rehearsal dinners. So it’s not at all implausible that her initial concern had been something along the lines of “If one of these guys has a few too many he may think weddings are a good time for inappropriate behavior.” To which the right answer is definitely “OK, I’ll help you and I won’t freak out” rather than “You evil slut! Go to the wedding alone lest I challenge my potential former rivals to a duel!” And then he gets worse.

I do disagree a little about the “none of your business” axiom regarding previous sexual partners, just because complete nondisclosure can lead to embarrassment when you and your current partner meet a former partner. Of course, if you were involved with someone for any length of time, their name will probably come up at some point in the “learning experiences of my life” conversations.

hlynn117 @54:
I think I’d like the skirt of the bride’s maid’s dress on the left with the top of the one on the right for myself, but the slate blue is great.  Also, a clear deep green would be good.

@helen w. h. Am I the only one who loves the middle blue dress (and the model wearing it, who looks like she’s up to no good)? I say, use that as the wedding dress, blue and all, and accessorize with jet-black glass jewelry & birdcage veil, then dress the bridesmaids in a nice gothy black lace. Mm hmm, next time I get married that’s what I’ll do

*sigh* It’s tough reading about patterns of abuse, which seem to be popping up in lots of blogs lately, because my husband is experiencing extremely skilled bullying and emotional abuse (gaslighting, bait & switch, and such)  at the hands of his co-worker, the boss of his small team. Husband can’t leave, and I know very well from advice like this post that there’s no way to mitigate that stuff. I thought he was exaggerating till I witnessed it, several times. It’s really doing a number on him. Damn the economy.

1.As a husband, I completely agree that this guy is at LEAST a controlling asshole who will make her miserable, and quite possibly a truly abusive monster. She should run, not walk, to freedom.

2.As a psychologist, I feel that klp has some undiagnosed issues that may respond fairly well to cognitive behavior therapy or proper psychotropic medication.

3. As a man, I have to admit I thought all 3 bridesmaid dresses were the same until I read the comments comparing them and scrolled back up.

In my real life, it is really obvious that women have very little to no concern about hurting a man’s feelings in any situation.

Please stop feeding the MRA troll.

@Dr. Shrinker #3- Ha! But to be fair I’m betting you’d probably notice IRL if the dresses were in movement. The bias cut of the middle dress would give the material a slithery curve-hugging Jean Harlow effect. The kind of situation where the bride would force the bridesmaid to wear an awful bolero jacket to mitigate the “ahem… wow” factor.

Such a silly article. I’m trying to understand the outrage over the question, but I don’t see it.

MoseyMcShuffleson - I like the middle dress fine, but not for me.  I’m a big for anything with such tiny straps.  I hurt when I go braless for very long.

Huh? If she actually said that, she’s playing the victim in a twisted way. It doesn’t take an in-depth analysis of the concept of the unreliable narrator to doubt much of what’s said by him. But I think either she actually believes she’s suffering having to be around men she once fooled around with or she had to come up with some story because she’s dating an insane person. I’ll split the difference and suggest that these two should just choose opposing cardinal directions and skedaddle.

Comment #17: 3letterjon

Yes, because having to attend a wedding arm-in-arm with your ex is never awkward.
Way to victim blame.