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“Some way out of here” has real appeal in 2009

Confession: I’m like the last person in the country to get on board the “Lost” train.  I only started watching the show a few months ago, and we’re up to season 3 by watching it through Netflix.  I mention this, because it was fascinating (and due credit to Marc for pointing this out) to see how the last hour of “Battlestar Galactic” was really evocative of the way they film “Lost”.  And really, the ending episode borrows from the same fantasy that made “Lost” a big hit, which is the fantasy of stripping away most of the accouterments of modern society and starting over.  Viewers get to ask themselves if they could really cut it under these circumstances, which is part of the appeal, but it’s worth asking if there’s something about the current state of affairs that makes the fantasy all the more appealing.

I took a long walk and spent a lot of time thinking about the direction this thread about the “BSG” finale took, where people debated whether or not people would be able to survive the dramatic shift to a combo hunter/gatherer and simple agricultural lifestyle. I do think some folks exaggerated the implications of the ending—-they divided supplies up, so it’s not like people had no technology, and Lee makes a speech about bringing the best of their world to this new one, including cultural innovations that surely involved agriculture and some kinds of technology.  There’s also talk of farming and house-building, and so in no way was it meant as a literal return to the hunter/gatherer lifestyle.  But it did make me think that the writers would have been smart not to put the issue of choice out there, because it meant so many audience members would get stuck on that and not look at the fact that it was a symbolic return to Eden.  It would have been easy to write it as not a choice—-their ships were falling apart, they were nearly out of fuel, and people were desperate to eat real food for the first time in years.  But there’s also something powerful in the idea that they had earned the right to determine their own fates, so I guess it’s a matter of being unable to please all the people all of the time.

But it made me realize that the question of whether or not you could hack it if you had to survive under these conditions has a powerful pull on people, and so does the fantasy of really leaving the modern world and going back to some kind of basics.  Which is why I think “Lost” is so compelling (as well as “Survivor”, I suppose), because even people who find the dialogue and plot twists to be faintly to utterly ridiculous find themselves sucked into the show.  While the characters state, over and over again, that they want to go home—-except for Locke, of course—-I think that there’s some ambivalence built into that.  After all, what do they have to go back to?  Most of them have shitty lives in the real world, and some of them have nothing to gain by going home.  On the island, they spend their days fishing and picking fruit, and while they miss things like music and TV and soft beds, they can’t miss credit ratings, office jobs, and commutes.  Things are tipped into the “let’s go home!” region only because there’s constant lurking dangers and poor access to medical supplies, but if that wasn’t an issue, it would be hard to see why they’d want to go home, especially those who have such shitty family lives they’re better off without their families.  And, at the point in the series that I’m in, The Others are clearly characterized as bad guys (I suspect that will become more ambiguous over time), and part of what makes them so distasteful is they want to have it both ways.  They have all the creature comforts of modern life—-the houses and the TV sets—-but they also get to live on this island where the modern world doesn’t touch them. 


This escapist fantasy has many historical incarnations, with the Noble Savage being one. It’s no wonder that it’s popular now, and has been for awhile.  It first showed up as a right wing thing, with survivalist nuts who think/hope the world is going to come to an end soon who stock up on guns and canning supplies.  Or they just read “Left Behind” and hope for the Rapture.  But just because they’re idiots doesn’t mean their responses aren’t the result of sincere fears and stress points.  The fact that an apocalypse or getting stranded on a desert island would erase your debt obligations alone makes it enough to be a powerful fantasy for a solid percentage of Americans (a majority?), and hell, even the realization that you may never need to use an alarm clock again would be enough to get many people to sign up.  Now you see it showing up in more liberal incarnations, such as the ending of “Battlestar Galactica”. Unfortunately, you hear some people going a little too far and suggesting that it was somehow easy to be a sustenance farmer or a hunter/gatherer, as if “more simple” equals “easier”.  But even many those who accept that it would be hard feel the pull of the fantasy. Until thinking about this, I never realized how much the story of Noah’s ark was a fantasy as much as a warning, but perhaps it was a variation of the same fantasy for ancient people.

And now our economy is going down the toilet on a sea of bad investments and bad credit, and the urge to just wipe it all out and start over is just going to get stronger.  Smart TV producers and writers would key into that and make more of these fantasies, and watch the money roll in.  Perhaps in the 30s, the money was made putting on elaborate and fancy displays of wealth that people could take in for a nickel.  But I think this time around, people feel so stuck and so complicit in the system that they just want a door out.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 07:14 PM • (47) Comments

The 30’s also saw the rapid growth in sci-fi and comic books; if Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon weren’t an escapist door out, it’s hard to say what is.

As far as Lost goes, you’re absolutely right about the show’s creators intentionally fostering dizzying degrees of ambiguity.  At present, well into season 4, we still don’t know for sure who’s the worst bad guy/biggest threat, and who’s really worth rooting for.  One thing’s for certain, though- you can expect the sci-fi quotient to increase over time.  wink

Comment #1: jamie d  on  03/24  at  08:30 PM

This also deepens my understanding of the appeal of Edgar Rice Burroughs.  I enjoyed Tarzan because I’m a fan of the superhero genre, and the adventurer genre is its immediate ancestor, but I couldn’t get into John Carter of Mars because everything felt so stark—the Martian society was so spartan and honestly bleak that Carter’s heroism was difficult to appreciate.  It makes a lot more sense this way—better to be a superman in a primitive society than an ordinary man in an advanced society.

Comment #2: nekouken  on  03/24  at  08:41 PM

It’s a success when churches are clearly marked, exceeded only by those wonderful moments when they are demolished or repurposed for some useful community function.

I’m still not on it (but I am mourning the end of RuPaul’s Drag Race.)

Comment #3: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  03/24  at  08:47 PM

Yep, the the folks on Lost were getting drop shipments of Dharma supplies, so they were only go so far “back to nature”.

Comment #4: CParis  on  03/24  at  09:00 PM

<blockquote>Lee makes a speech about bringing the best of their world to this new one</blcokquote>

Yeah, and he also whines that science gets ahead of our ‘souls’, the classic Luddite defense.

Lost might be enjoyable on DVD.  Watching it ‘live’ it became apparent during the 1st year that they hadn’t thought things out very well and during the second year that they were actively pulling shit out of their asses.

Big meetings commenced.  Discussions with ABC about the length of the series and a fixed timetable emerged.  Retconning and a PLAN may have made things better, but by that point even my husband had given up on it, and by the end he was tivo-ing and fast-forwarding through half the stuff anyway.

Week-by-week season 2 was painful.  If you see it in one big burst, does it flow better?  Is it easier to take knowing that there are resolutions and many more chapters/seasons to come?  Because sometimes a novel can bog down, but still be worthy of a read (Les Miserables stops the main story every few chapters to give you Hugo’s take on, say, Waterloo.  The 200 pages spent reading deepen your understanding of the book, but I tended to skip ahead, make sure people lived, and then went back and slogged through the ‘research’).

Comment #5: Caren-Sun-blocking Creator of Animorphic Pancakes  on  03/24  at  09:05 PM

Yeah, the drop shipments are an interesting aspect that muddies it up.  That’s how they like to fuck with us, I guess.  It just makes the fantasy more of a fantasy in one aspect—-they really don’t have to work at all, do they?—-but it also puts their moral superiority as noble savages compared to The Others into question.  If it was introduced just to explain how they survive, I’m not sure it makes sense, because you could have easily portrayed the island as abundant.  Sun could also grow things besides caladiums, but at present her garden appears to be mostly decorative.  (I’m not sure it’s intended to be, but seriously, all she grows are caladiums.)  The drop shipments are less an explanation for how they survive in my book and more a way to show that they’re at the mercy of larger forces they don’t understand.

Comment #6: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/24  at  09:07 PM

I definitely think “Lost” works better on DVD.

Comment #7: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/24  at  09:14 PM

There was a British sf series in the seventies which had a far more hard headed look at this trope.

Comment #8: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  03/24  at  09:17 PM

OT, I fear—but is anybody here a fan of Dexter?  I’d really like to kow what y’all think.  Thanks.
Rhubarb

Comment #9: rhubarb  on  03/24  at  09:21 PM

Sorry for the stupid typo.
R

Comment #10: rhubarb  on  03/24  at  09:22 PM

I’ve never seen BSG or Lost, either, but I thought about this a lot when I was in Peace Corps - the “could I hack it if I had to live like these people live?” question. The people in my community did grow cotton as a cash crop, but not very much and not for very much money, and probably about 75 percent of their consumption was from their own production - yucca, beans, corn, squash, sweet potato, chickens, pigs. They supplemented with wild fruits and greens, fish and the occasional endangered forest creature.

Short answer: It would be really, really hard if you didn’t have the accumulated knowledge of people who had been living in the area for generations.

But I didn’t have to work as hard as they had to work. Like the folks on Lost (apparently) I had “supply drops” in the form of a salary from Peace Corps to buy what I couldn’t produce. And despite no running water, no electricity, a botfly infestation in my right buttock and various other hazards, I sometimes think my quality of life was better there than it ever will be again. As an escapist fantasy, it has tremendous appeal.

Comment #11: chingona  on  03/24  at  09:30 PM

I’m not sure how much I can say about Lost without giving some serious spoilers.  At the point where you seem to be, I was mostly annoyed with the residents of Scenic New Otherton not because they wanted to have it both ways, but because they had done nothing to help the Losties, and in fact were periodically screwing with them, even though the crash survivors didn’t have or want any part in whatever the Others were up to. 

On the broader post, I think that’s a really good point.  This is no small part of what’s behind the growth in urban farming, for example. 


I’ve never really understood people who think that Lost was just being thrown together with no plan.  It always struck me as having been really carefully planned out, which is how you can get events and episodes which make little sense at the time, but eventually fit other pieces of the puzzle.  These days we get episodes which seem to reveal too much, simply because they fit in with things that have happened before.  Or rather, that have been included in previous episodes.  The timing would just… make you more confused.  Battlestar clearly had no “plan,” despite the insistence in the opening credits to the contrary, and I think the difference really shows.

Comment #12: rufustfyrfly  on  03/24  at  09:38 PM

Also, I was really glad that Lost had a pretty reasonable take on who would survive going back to basics.  The first people to die were the ones that were the most spoiled and pampered.

Comment #13: rufustfyrfly  on  03/24  at  09:43 PM

Pretty much all the post-whatever fantasies run into terrible logistical problems. I don’t think the classic escapist genre is so much about whether you could hack it thrown back on some ambiguous set of diminished resources as it is about what you do having a visible effect on your world, about your work mattering.

So much of most developed-nation people’s work is distributional in nature rather than actually making things (because paying people a living wage for making stuff is too expensive), and you pretty much always have to ask whether anything would be affected if you weren’t there (hence also all the shows about cops, firefighters, doctors, lawyers etc, all the more interesting kinds of production workers).

Comment #14: paul  on  03/24  at  09:45 PM

The fantasy we need most right now is the B-grade ‘80s teen comedy movie fantasy. As those of us over 30 will recall, a little over an hour into the running time, the motley group of goofy kids are in big trouble: the resort/summer camp/hotel/theatre/dance hall/burger joint is in horrible shape, with the grand opening/big party that will save them all just 24 hours away.

No-one ran away (because there is no “away”); no-one decided “screw it, we’ll just let things go to hell” (because even party animals see no nobility in savagery). Nosirree, we all know what happened, because it happened in every.single.one of these movies:

Cue montage over peppy bubblegum song. Everyone pitches in and gets to work; someone pokes his head through a door and gets his face painted over; someone else would hit his thumb trying to hammer a nail; sheepish laughs all around; the big lazy slob drinks beers with one hand and saws boards with the other; the blonde bombshell’s top gets sucked into the industrial vacuum cleaner; The Dork prints out dot-matrix blueprints from his Commodore64; the lead and his romantic rival find themselves working together and shake hands; and then the shot of all of them, as a group, sweaty, dirty, admiring their work; cut to the shiny and renovated resort/summer camp/hotel/theatre/frat house/burger joint. Just in time for the last 10 minutes of the movie to roll to finish.

Corny and escapist, but satisfying.

[See also the late ‘30s “let’s rent a barn and put on a show” genre—there’s a reason the Rooney/Garland pictures were as popular as the Astaire/Rogers ones were earlier in the Depression]

I’ve already discussed my objections to BSG‘s back-to-nature ending in the other thread, but this jumped out at me:

But there’s also something powerful in the idea that they had earned the right to determine their own fates, so I guess it’s a matter of being unable to please all the people all of the time.

And yet they’ve all been, and continue to be, pawns in this recursive cycle orchestrated by the cosmic coding force that “doesn’t like to be called God.” In the face of that, the only thing I’d consider “earned” is setting up a city on this lovely planet, well away from the indigenous tribes, and preserving as many comforts of civilisation as long as possible (except robots—no robots!)

Comment #15: Gracchus.  on  03/24  at  09:46 PM

I’m less interested in whether the writers have a plan than if they hold the story together coherently.  Sometimes having a plan is a bad idea, because you refuse to deviate if your characters take you in other directions, or you write everything towards the planned ending, leaving lots of dead space while you simply kill time.  “Buffy” suffered badly from this in its last season.

Comment #16: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/24  at  09:48 PM

Unfortunately, you hear some people going a little too far and suggesting that it was somehow easy to be a sustenance farmer or a hunter/gatherer, as if “more simple” equals “easier”.

Boy do I wish that some people could get this pounded into their skulls. I’ve had more than one argument with well-meaning liberals who have taken up a romantic notion of primitivism as the ideal way of human life - gosh, life would be so simple, and no we wouldn’t have modern technology, medicine, etc, but we would be spiritually fulfilled and la la la! Even leaving aside said lack of effective medicine and how hard and short such a life could be (and I say could because it isn’t necessarily so; the San seemed to do pretty well for themselves for thousands of years, location is probably critically important to how hard life is), the simple fact is, human nature being what it is, we will always find a way to make life suck. Some of us would be basically happy and comfortable with our lives and relationships, and some of us would be confused and miserable. Same as always. People are people, and there’s no way to cure the malais of human existence. Ah, yes. Seriously, I’m not afraid of knowledge. I like being part of the modern world, even if there is a lot of crap that comes with it. But I’m a scientist, so that’s probably to be expected.

Comment #17: grolby  on  03/24  at  09:52 PM

I do think there’s a strong social pressure in our society to adopt behavior patterns that lead to depression and general unhappiness.  The overbooked work schedules, the perfectionism, the long commutes that make it hard to get exercise, the general fear that sticking out too much will make it hard to get a job (a conformism that then makes it hard for people to work up the enthusiasm to get out of the house and take up interesting hobbies), the feeling of being watched all the time, the police state in general, the lack of access to green things (especially in the overbuilt suburbs), the marriages held together out of duty rather than passion, kids who get swept up into the worst sorts of materialism because they haven’t developed critical thinking skills, the clueless managers, the meaningless of most work, and the mediocre, brain-numbing pop culture.  Maybe we do always find a way to make life suck, but right now I think Americans have a right to say that our lives suck more than they have to.  Which isn’t to say that people in other places don’t have sucky lives, but I really do think that it’s bizarre how so many of us can be so comfortable and yet so bored and depressed.

Comment #18: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/24  at  10:16 PM

I’ve had more than one argument with well-meaning liberals who have taken up a romantic notion of primitivism as the ideal way of human life - gosh, life would be so simple, and no we wouldn’t have modern technology, medicine, etc, but we would be spiritually fulfilled and la la la!

Propose to your interlocutors that the next time they go get a crown fitted at the dentist’s, they refuse Novocain. That will concentrate the mind fairly effectively, I imagine.

Comment #19: Neddie Jingo  on  03/24  at  10:34 PM

Welcome to the Island, Amanda. There’s no getting away.

I never much liked the “living the unspoiled life” aspect. What with polar bears and worse, the place was too dangerous. What kept me watching (aside from liking the characters) was the whole SF aspect. I started watching it last fall when SciFi was showing the whole thing from the beginning, in four-hour chunks every Monday night. I needed it to be framed as SF; until SciFi began running the ads I had assumed the show was another “reality” series like I still suppose “Survivor” is/was.

Oh, yeah, I turned off my cable service in October 2004 when Natasha died. The TV was for her anyway. So it would have been inconvenient for me if she had started watching the show that last month before when she was actually dying, and I’d gotten hooked on it. (I only have TV now because I live with my parents nowadays.)

Anyway, what kept me hooked was the weird stuff—and watching people I perhaps foolishly believe are more or less realistic deal with it

Obviously we can’t really talk specifics until you catch up.

BTW, isn’t this the 5th season? I was given the Season 3 DVD set for Xmas (because our house fire totally screwed up my chances of getting caught up) and when we got cable back here at the rented apartment, SciFi was just finishing it up; they went through Season 4 (last year) in about a month and then the new season started on ABC.

Comment #20: Mark Foxwell  on  03/24  at  10:34 PM

“I mention this, because it was fascinating (and due credit to Marc for pointing this out) to see how the last hour of “Battlestar Galactic” was really evocative of the way they film “Lost”. “

You shut your whore mouth! BSG has nothing in common with that half-baked piece of shit known as “Lost.”

Comment #21: Ozzymandias  on  03/24  at  10:43 PM

I was in the Peace Corps a very long time ago and I realized almost immediately that if I had to live a life one-half as difficult as the people I lived among, I would be curled up in a ball whimpering, or starving to death by the side of the road. Digging a flower bed in my back yard damned near killed me: I can’t imagine planting, tending and harvesting a field of yams.

And Buffy suffered from a hell of a lot of things in its last season.

Comment #22: felagund  on  03/24  at  11:05 PM

I love Lost. Every week I scream: “What the fuck?!?” at the TV, but I always come back for a fresh dose. There’s two sorts of opinions on Lost- either you watch it and love it, or you gave up on it early (in the dismal 2nd season, I guess) and don’t know what you’re talking about.

Comment #23: Destructor  on  03/24  at  11:23 PM

When they started making a big deal about the Others, I was kind of irritated—I think I wanted it to be more about the castaways vs. the mystery of the island, or vs. their own pasts, but instead it was all going to be about conflict with these particular scary people. Similarly, I thought all the Dharma leftovers were a shiny distraction. But I have to say I really love the way they’ve gone with both of those stories; the backstory & the hints you get of how both groups evolved are often way more interesting than the nominal plot details of who’s currently running to/from/around whatever.

Also—I don’t think this is too much of a spoiler—it’s interesting how as stuff keeps getting more science-fictiony & supernatural, it actually brings the Others down to earth in some ways. I mean, they still have pretty bizarre lives, but their abilities & motives make more sense given the ground rules they’re working with—like when you find out how it is that Richard originally knew all this stuff about Locke (which I’m guessing is also how they got all those lists of the main characters in the first place). It’s kind of a more cosmic version of the funny bit early on where Locke first opened up the hatch and there was this very UFO-ish blinding beam of light, and then later you see what that light really was.

Comment #24: Hob  on  03/24  at  11:25 PM

I missed out on the BSG thread since we were away for the weekend and only got caught up yesterday, but the movie the ending made me think of was “Wall-E.”

Comment #25: Mnemosyne  on  03/25  at  12:25 AM

BSG has nothing in common with that half-baked piece of shit known as “Lost.”

I don’t feel quite so strong and unambiguously about it, but I’m sure glad someone said it. BSG and Lost are 2 examples of very good ideas, one of them magnificently explored and the other ruined by cheesy dialogues and irritating characters. All has been said about Galactica’s powerful, rich symbolism. By contrast, Lost takes profound-kitsch to new heights. One good example is the whole Locke, Rousseau, Bakunin thing… specially gratuitous in a series in which the highest source of ideological tension seems to come in the exausted “faith vs skepticism” theme. The names appear to be randomly assigned to the respective characters so the writers could have a few laughs reading overanalyzers.

Lost has an addictive quality to it, so I still see it whenever they end a season (I can’t stand the stupid idea of forcing cliffhangers in every episode), and, to their merit, they managed to kill or otherwise get rid of the most insufferable characters. And I do want to know where the whole damn DHARMA initiative goes. But it’s no Galactica.

Anyway, why dissect Lost when there’s Mad Men? Anybody thinks it’s the greatest thing since the Sopranos (perhaps with the exception of Rome)?

Comment #26: Nimed  on  03/25  at  12:31 AM

Lost is much better on DVD.  I often yell at the TV during certain episodes, “Why are you wasting my time?!”  Luckily this season really gives me the sense that the show’s plan is moving forward in a big way.  However, there are a few episodes every season that make me angry with their uselessness, both in character building deficits and plot.  Of course, I still love it and a lot of hardworking people make it worthwhile to watch.

BSG has always been, in my estimation, the far superior show.  No contest.

Comment #27: knute123  on  03/25  at  12:36 AM

Sometimes having a plan is a bad idea, because you refuse to deviate if your characters take you in other directions, or you write everything towards the planned ending, leaving lots of dead space while you simply kill time.

While that may be a problem now, with Season 5 currently running and Season 6 as the end (until the Zombie Season, that is), Michael Emerson (Ben Linus, aka “Henry Gale”) was only supposed to be on the show for a few episodes, but the writers liked what they saw and decided to keep him around for a bit longer. grin

Once you catch up, you might have a different take on the Others “trying to have it both ways”, as creators Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof gave a nice sentence describing what the Others do on the island in this season’s lead-in to the premiere.  I heartily recommend their podcasts, BTW; much more listenable than the BSG ones, as one doesn’t have to be watching the episode in tandem in order for it to make sense.  Moreover, it’s just flat-out entertaining, with all sorts of goofy riffing and callbacks to previous goofiness, though you might need a slight tolerance for smarm (not a lot, they’re still geeks at heart).

There is one blind spot the show seems to have that I’m hoping you’ll write about, but I can’t say anything yet since it isn’t until Season 3 that it really becomes manifest.

Generally, it seems like the show started being about realistic people being marooned on an island, and eventually turned into an epic Campbellesque yarn.  That’s more than OK in this case, as Cuse/Lindelof seem to care a lot about having things make sense in the logic of the world they’ve created, but I do miss the relatively quiet rythyms of Season 1.

Comment #28: NY Expat  on  03/25  at  12:49 AM

You’re the second-to-last person.  I’m the last—I only started watching when we signed up for Netflix last month, and I’m only just now starting on Season 2, which is apparently the shitty season that’s going to make me question whether I want to keep watching. tongue laugh

Comment #29: JCfromNC  on  03/25  at  02:04 AM

BSG could have been a good show. If they had realized the nature of their fandom earlier on and ratcheted up the budget a wee bit and put it on Shotime instead of “SYFY” (Snigger)
The themes were there, and the gritty film noir delivery, but That whole “Frak” thing made me want to pound my head into a wall.
And I respectfully disagree with Ozzy.
DIAMETRICALLY.
Lost is way less chintzy than Ed J Olmos has been for ever. And, maybe a philosophical point… or budgetary again, but here is a group of Greco-Egyptianate people existing 100,000 years before The greeks and the Egyptians.
And if they are Egyptian, why are they privvy to things like Whiskey, which is a celtic, and much later thing.
See, I was put off by the attempt at cosistency in BSG, and the total failure to adhere to it. Lost is a lot more “Out There” it seems, but I like that, it reminds me of when I thought David Lynch was actually a good film-maker, After he dropped the travesty of FIRE WALK WITH ME, I have liked him less and less.
But Lost has some of the Blue Velvet and First season Twin Peaks Je nesais quoi

/RANT
return to regular scheduled programming

Comment #30: alcoolworld  on  03/25  at  02:34 AM

Several people point to Lost’s connection to 9/11: seemingly safe plane on ordinary day drops you and other people suddenly in a world that isn’t safe and no one knows how to get out of it.

Director Stuart Gordon (“Re-Animator,” “Fortress”) pointed this out to the television press a couple of weeks ago during an appearance for “Masters of Horror.”

“My theory is that it’s a result of 9/11,” he said. “People expected that after 9/11, people were going to want light comedies and so forth, but instead it’s been horror. ... There’s so much tension in the world that people need a chance to get it out of their systems.”

This existential angst draws upon our belief in possibility and the fascination with “other,” and the ways in which that concept conjures up images that are benign, frightening or just plain odd.

“We’re living in an aftermath world,” Cassidy offered. “... And very, very, very terrible tragedies have come and there hasn’t been a rulebook for the aftermath. Trying to figure out what to do next, trying to find our way, trying to put the pieces back together in a more productive way, those are the themes of our show.”

Comment #31: Renmiri  on  03/25  at  03:10 AM

Amanda:
i have never watched Lost.
probably never will.

i admit that i really enjoy the escapist fantasy of getting in a spaceship and going. but A) i am one of those people who will quite literally die without certain aspects of tech (like some of my medications. and air conditioning. anything over 75F makes me ill. on the other hand, anything LESS than 65F makes me hurt. if i don’t stay in that temp range over all, i’d probably die in just a couple of days. and there are VERY few places that actually stay in that temp range, and even then they have periods that fall out of it)
hell, with out modern medicine i would have died at age 3, or 9, or 17 or 21.

Comment #32: denelian  on  03/25  at  03:25 AM

i forgot B. sorry smile

B) i don’t wanna. i have family who still live on the rez, farming. thats just STUPIFYING hard work.

Comment #33: denelian  on  03/25  at  03:27 AM

Confession: I’m like the last person in the country to get on board the “Lost” train.

Not even close.

Comment #34: Dan, Grand High Emperor of Bananas Foster  on  03/25  at  03:50 AM

Lost is totally addictive and way better on DVD. Its fun to sit down and watch a few but one every week or so is somehow just annoying. That said I am still watching every week…
I’d agree that it’s no where as smart, or visually stunning, as BSG but both shows share the quality of making you wonder if the writers know what they are doing or are just flopping around and doing random things to amuse themselves and screw the consquences. I actually think Lost will end with more solid answers to it’s questions then BSG did, mostly because at this point Lost has gotten so ridiculous I can’t really see it getting more so, while BSG had a long way to fall for that crappy half-baked ending. (Starbuck as angel?!? Arrgh… so DUMB!)
And just for the record Buffy (from season 3 on at least) is pretty much better then any television EVER FOR ALL TIME. Quickly followed by Angel, Twin Peaks, and Kids in the Hall…

Comment #35: AdamN  on  03/25  at  05:56 AM

Also I have to admit that only really started watching Lost cause I thought Matthew Fox is super hot. And I also have to admit that is still probably the main reason I still watch smile

Comment #36: AdamN  on  03/25  at  06:01 AM

Amanda began:

Confession: I’m like the last person in the country to get on board the “Lost” train.  I only started watching the show a few months ago, and we’re up to season 3 by watching it through Netflix.

Don’t worry, there are still some of us who never got on that train.

Comment #37: Dana  on  03/25  at  07:41 AM

In addition to survivalist fantasies and the draw of dropping all of the crap of the modern world for a more primitive way of life, I think there’s also something to be said for the ability of the plane crash on Lost and the nuclear holocaust on BSG to increase a person’s sense of individuality and sense of power.  Jack goes from being just another American doctor to being THE doctor.  All of the plane crash survivors went from being one of millions of Americans/Aussies/Koreans/etc. to being one of about 40 islanders.  All of a sudden, their actions and decisions can make a real difference in how their world is shaped and what happens in their lives.  Ditto for BSG on a larger scale (Adama goes from being an Admiral nearing retirement and in command of a museum piece to the Admiral of the fleet in charge of military decisions that shape the survival of the human species).

Comment #38: redlegphi  on  03/25  at  09:24 AM

Nimed, there’s only so much “Mad Men” to dissect.  I’ve done it, but it’s not on air right now.

Dana, you’re actually too stodgy to be included in my sweeping generalization.

Comment #39: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/25  at  12:10 PM

Interesting point, red.  I think a lot of us feel blocked from power, and wonder if we could handle it if we got handed as much as we want.  On “BSG”, that’s really a big theme, and that’s why I think political nerds looooooove it.

Comment #40: Amanda Marcotte  on  03/25  at  12:15 PM

Lost vs. BSG:

We’ll see when the bell rings on Lost’s last episode, but if you’d asked me before Season 3 of BSG, I would have said BSG in a heartbeat.  But the last two seasons of BSG, while compelling, infuriated me as much as entertained me. 

BSG started out as pure hard sci-fi, but once cosmic Bob Dylan appeared and everything become all about the Final Five and prophecies and less about “West Wing in Space”, I had to hold my nose a little.  The mysticism wasn’t quite an appropriate fit for the kind of stories they were telling.  And count me among those who found the finale a big letdown in many ways.

Lost on the other hand, yeah you could say it’s a soap opera and pretentious and a bunch of mystical hokum—but it FITS the kind of story they’re telling.  No other series, not the Prisoner, Twin Peaks, or the X-Files (all of which I love), has managed to be so mysterious for so long and stay so entertaining.  None of them.  Yes, it’s infuriating at times, but so is just about any series except the Wire.

And it doesn’t matter to me if they’re pulling it all out of their asses each week or not.  Does it matter what notes come out of jazz big band from moment to moment, as long the improvisation’s good?  That’s where this series excels.  I do think they have a master plan, but that’s not the MOST important thing to me.  I bet the feeback loop you get from sites like Lostpedia has served the writers very well over the years.

Comment #41: Dr. Locrian  on  03/25  at  12:25 PM

I see BSG’s finale on the same continuum with _Office Space_ and _Fight Club_ rather than Lost or Survivor.

Comment #42: boring old dude  on  03/25  at  03:26 PM

Part of the genuine appeal of living in a situation where one really does have to work very hard to make a living happen is that stupid, mean people will have a reason to fail—and your community will have a reason to ostracize them.

Comment #43: Punditus Maximus  on  03/25  at  04:28 PM

I just started watching Lost a couple of months ago, at the urging of a coworker, and it’s pure escapism.  Every day I spend at work is a day I could be laid off, so why not come home and watch a television series that takes place on a beautiful (if deadly) island and also features Matthew Fox, often without a shirt?  I’m sure that, if pressed, I could outrun a polar bear or outwit that wacky smoke monster, but what the hell am I going to do without health insurance?  Et cetera, et cetera.

I also enjoy working out the puzzles and bits and pieces on the show.  It’s kind of like a video game—you have to solve x puzzle to level up, etc.  But I don’t think it’s a serious examination of issues the way that BSG could sometimes be.

But damn, that island is gorgeous.

Comment #44: LauraB  on  03/25  at  08:33 PM

Incidentally, I’ve read that modern day hunter-gatherers usually need to work about 20 hours a week to survive, and that’s usually on marginal land that hasn’t been taken over by us “civilized” folk because it isn’t worth anything. Compare that to the standard 40 hour work week we have in the industrialized world. On the other hand, subsistence farming really is about as awful as one might imagine; there’s a reason sweatshops had (and have) plenty of willing workers.

Comment #45: Doug S.  on  03/25  at  09:49 PM

Sun could also grow things besides caladiums, but at present her garden appears to be mostly decorative.  (I’m not sure it’s intended to be, but seriously, all she grows are caladiums.)

Actually I think she mainly grows taro (Colocasia), which is similar in habit but larger, and edible if prepared correctly. As far as I know, there are no solid-green Caladiums.

Comment #46: mr_subjunctive  on  03/26  at  09:33 AM

I just finished season one of Lost. I’m hooked.

Comment #47: Stephanie  on  03/26  at  06:29 PM
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