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Next entry: Fundies ignoring that their god probably wouldn’t be too keen on Viagra Previous entry: Don’t think they’re not looking to impeachment

Someone make Charles Murray just choose already

Choads

Republican appeals to the white working class have always been fraught, and not just because Republicans are trying to hoodwink this group with talk of abortion and gays in order to get them to vote against their own economic interests. It's also because it's always been illogical. On top of race-baiting and sexism, one of the big rhetorical strategies has been to pit the white working class against well-paid  professionals (who are in fact becoming more liberal, though that's a recent shift) they deem the "liberal elite", with the hopes of distracting the white working class from the independently wealthy. It's illogical, since the argument is that rich fat cats who make a lot of money off other people's work are somehow a less appropriate target for class resentments than doctors, college professors and laywers who make a lot of money, but do so clocking in to a productive job every day like their working class brethern. But it's been somewhat effective, in no small part because your average working class white person probably knows someone of the working upper middle class, and they probably don't know any of the obscenely wealthy. Most of us are more likely, in other words, to know someone like the Obamas than the Romneys. So they're an easier target to describe meaningfully while dredging up resentments against them.

But another reason a lot of conservative thought leaders are so good at painting a picture of a snooty professional elite who wouldn't deign to rub shoulders with ordinary working Americans is that they are those people. In fact, far more so than the liberal versions of themselves much of the time. And really, while they're good at setting up people of their own class as hate-objects, they can barely conceal their disdain for working class whites. They just project it on liberals, and hope that their target audience doesn't notice what's going on.

Well, Charles Murray has blown their cover. That's all I can say about his latest book where he simulataneously plays the same cards that conservatives have for a long time, accusing the professional elite of being out of touch with "real" Americans, i.e. the white working class, and then proceeding to tell professional elites that their duty is to appoint themselves the moral guardians of the white working class and scold them to keep it in their pants. As part of the marketing for his book, he's released a quiz where you can rate how "in touch" you are with the working man by counting your visits to Applebee's, which is a typical exercise in claiming that a certain kind of American is the ony real one, a standard issue strategy for conservatives. But most of the book is about how people who would presumably rate high on his Quiz de Vicious White Trash Stereotypes are intellectually and morally inferior to the professional class, and thus need a good talking-to.

Frankly, I think Murray needs to be forced to choose. Are white working class Americans the only Real Americans, and anyone who is less than keen on drinking a Miller Lite in a Chili's is an evil snob? Or are the evil snobs the superior people here, and Real Americans are an unwashed mass of perverts who need to straighten up and fly right?

See, what's nice about being an evil liberal is that I don't have to deal with these problems. I don't think that conservative working class white culture is either the One True Culture, nor do I think that it's the business of upper class or upper middle class folks to appoint themselves the moral guardians of the rest of the country, bleating about how everything is going to hell because someone somewhere is fucking without a marriage license. The beauty of the "We Are the 99%" slogan is that it gets to the heart of this: the real elite in this country has, by treating our markets like a big casino, laid waste to our economy and screwed over everyone else. What's interesting to me is that idiots like Murray can never get past unbelievably superficial anger about sex and getting conservative haircuts (which is presumably what he means by "work ethic", because it's ludicruous to think any actual working Americans have been slacking off when it comes to actual working, which we do too much of) to ever stop and think that perhaps different people make different choices about marriage and haircuts for good reasons. Of course, deeper analysis would reveal that in fact, it's not that Americans collectively got immoral and stupid so much as that the very elite who control this country economically have been gobbling up a larger and larger slice of the pie, leaving the rest of us fighting over scraps. And Murray can't have that. 

By the way, I did start to take the quiz and got really bored, but unsurprisingly, considering my family background, I was scoring a lot of points on it. But I have to point out that the fishing question is a little geographical-ist, since people who live in the desert really have to travel far to go fishing much of the time. Also, my long-standing defense of the deliciousness of many American piss beers is, in my experience, has proven to be generally useless in getting the liberal elite to care or conservative America to be less wary of me. But perhaps my dedication to not doing something so bourgeois as get married is good for giving Murray the vapors. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 06:13 PM • (64) Comments

One thing that I’ve seen some liberals get stuck on is, that there are *two* axes of “class” in play.  The first is economic class, which is the “class” liberals generally focus on, and try to point out inequalities for.  The second is “social” (education, urban/rural, etc), which is the class that GOP plutocrats spend all their energy getting rubes to worry about.

The fact that we use “class” to express both of these axes muddies the waters considerably, probably in favor of the GOP since confused national discourse always seems to work in their favor.

Comment #1: phantom power  on  01/30  at  06:55 PM

so what Charles Murray is saying is that (real) Americans are irresponsible and need to be restrained by people who aren’t (real) Americans?

How very… Euroelitist… of him

Comment #2: jadehawk  on  01/30  at  07:16 PM

Ugh, what a stupid quiz. Except for the first section (which boils down to “Are you a working-class male or the son of a working-class family”), the rest of it was not about class but about culture.

I can guarantee that PhDs and white-collar professionals in San Antonio rub shoulders with their working-class brethren at Luby’s and Transformers III.

Comment #3: Sarah TX  on  01/30  at  07:42 PM

But another reason a lot of conservative thought leaders are so good at painting a picture of a snooty professional elite who wouldn’t deign to rub shoulders with ordinary working Americans is that they are those people.

Exactly. It’s rather annoying to see these people extol the virtues of places that they would never live in themselves. It’s a kind of intellectual slumming.

Comment #4: Linnaeus  on  01/30  at  07:56 PM

So for those of us who didn’t have the vehicles to get to any of the top nine sit-down chains (the Chipotle that he intentionally omitted is the only one in walking - or even biking - distance of where I live), do we get to take all four points for that question for having had to eat a dinner of beans?

Comment #5: Hobbes  on  01/30  at  08:24 PM

I don’t read Murray as lambasting some people as “not real Americans”; I think he is making the (at least partly valid) point that Americans do not share the same culture the way they did in the 1950s, when everyone drank the same beer and watched the same TV shows (and when the income gap between the highest earners and the lowest was much smaller than today).

Comment #6: Dr. Caligari  on  01/30  at  08:38 PM

I lol’d at the “what does ‘Branson’ mean” question.  I actually got full points for that just because my parents dragged me there during a summer vacation, despite my answer being “old people and shitty music.”  Something tells me that isn’t the tribal marker Murray wanted.

Comment #7: schism  on  01/30  at  09:08 PM

I saw this yesterday and was hoping you would discuss it. That quiz was fucking dumb. Some of the questions could have been an interesting examination of the balkanization of American culture, but he made them some dumb, incoherent “real true American” guilt trip. Living in a small town is not the same as being working class. None of those chain restaurants even existed in the small town where I grew up. I have always associated bland chains with yuppie suburbanites. Movie trends are determined by young men with spending money, not the working class. Going to movies is fucking expensive. I wasn’t sure if I could get “worked in a factory” points because most of the factory employees where I worked were electrical engineers and being an engineer had been ruled out as a true american occupation by the “who are your parents” question. If he does, indeed have a high IQ, he seems to have disproven its relationship to actual functioning intelligence.

Comment #8: alysia  on  01/30  at  09:34 PM

Why does he assume that real americans are stupid?  Sure, my sample is small - because I grew up in a town of a thousand year-round residents - but ‘got Cs but tried hard’?  No, I don’t know someone like that.  I don’t know anyone who tried hard and didn’t at least get Bs.  I know lots of people who didn’t try hard and got the whole gamut of grades.  But tried hard and got Cs?

And to be a real american you have to hang out with smokers? WTF, they’re smoking.  Sure, I have friends who smoke.  But that doesn’t mean I hang out with them while they’re burning their lungs.  Put me upwind, please.

And apparently if you bought something cheaper than Avon, you suck.  Like, WTF.

Comment #9: Crissa  on  01/30  at  09:42 PM

...And while he seems to think 50 miles is a long-distance bus, I can do that on the city busses here easy.  I commuted about twenty miles each way for awhile on city bus, I took city busses from my prior apartment to my new house to meet the inspector before we’d signed the papers - and that’s fifty miles one way.  I actually did that a couple times because it’s easier to use the busses in the daytime and left the car with spouse so she could travel when there weren’t busses.

Oh, I have something far more middle-America:  Have you ever received or shipped a package by long-distance bus?  It was cheaper for a long time to meet a bus to ship something bulky (like golf clubs) or heavy (a box of books or clothes) than to get UPS to do it, and USPS has limits of what they’ll deal with.

Comment #10: Crissa  on  01/30  at  09:53 PM

Damn, Crissa, I’m going to have to go ahead and destroy any Real American Cred I may have had (though, having grown up within 50 miles of Boston, Mass and less than four hours from NYC, I’m probably out of the running anyway) by asking: you can ship packages by bus!?

Comment #11: grolby  on  01/30  at  10:12 PM

Oh, and I’m a Beer Geek through and through, but we’ve all done our time hanging out at the local dives with our buddies drinking Coors Light for $6 a pitcher, and even enjoyed it. And I outright unironically like the taste of Miller High Life, though maybe anything that calls itself “The Champagne of Beers” is already too frou-frou for Real Americans.

Comment #12: grolby  on  01/30  at  10:14 PM

I don’t read Murray as lambasting some people as “not real Americans”; I think he is making the (at least partly valid) point that Americans do not share the same culture the way they did in the 1950s, when everyone drank the same beer and watched the same TV shows (and when the income gap between the highest earners and the lowest was much smaller than today).

Because it wasn’t like it was impossible to buy Coors east of the Rockies in the fifties. The American monoculture is a myth. You had parts of the country that spoke dialects so divergent they wouldn’t be able to communicate with each other, but we’re supposed to buy that back in the day we we’re all one people because those who could afford televisions watched the same four channels. Tell me another grandpa.

Comment #13: scrumby  on  01/30  at  10:21 PM

What Murray did was specifically take the fast food and popular entertainment totems that are shared widely across all classes (eg, football, Chipotle, many movies, and McDonalds) and eliminate those from consideration as being things that would place you “outside the bubble” if you were familiar with. That was done to achieve the desired result—if you take the specific parts of mass culture and experience that both groups share and eliminate them and only ask about the parts of mass culture that are less common across both groups, then you get a “clear” division of both groups. Surprise!

Comment #14: Tyro  on  01/30  at  10:52 PM

Man, some of those questions. 

Do you have a good friend who is an Evangelical Christian?  I think maybe a better question is how many of your good friends are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, atheist.  Female.  BLACK. 

Eating at Applebee’s, feh.  Do you regularly buy something at a store where people mostly speak a language other than English?  Do you know a language other than English and use it regularly?

A neighborhood with fewer than half your neighbors with college degrees?  How about, has your house ever been foreclosed on? 

Have you ever bought a pickup truck?  Really?  How about Do you walk or take public transit to work or school even when you’d rather not?

Ever worked on a factory floor?  Nothing wrong with that but how about, ever been a temp for more than six months, or employed at a job where they keep you just under full time so you can’t get any benefits?  Have you recently had to reduce your standard of living because of joblessness or reduced hours at work?  Ever worked more than one full time job or multiple part time jobs that add up to more than one full time job, just to make ends meet?

Comment #15: oldfeminist  on  01/30  at  10:54 PM

I was thinking about what would be real questions, refreshed, and then saw that Oldfeminist did it.  I would probably include things like:

Do you know how long you can go without paying a bill before they shut it off?  Do you ever pay your credit card first so you can pay the rest of your bills on it?  Do you know where the nearest dollar store is and if which stuff is “too expensive” there?

Comment #16: Antigone  on  01/30  at  11:25 PM

I find it rather interesting to see that Murray seems to include “brand-obsessed, broke-ass loser” in his definition of “Real American”. It’s extreme reverse snobbery sponsored by Anheuser Busch and the Darden restaurant group.

Comment #17: BrianX  on  01/30  at  11:29 PM

@oldfeminist - It wasn’t “ever worked on a factory floor”, it was “ever walked on a factory floor.” Which, yes, I have, but I wasn’t paid to do so and I was just passing through. Though perhaps my privilege is showing and those are the same thing… meep. The evangelical Christian, chain restaurant, Jimmie Johnson/Avon and pickup truck questions are pretty much indicative of how this quiz is oriented - not at “how far away are you from the working class”, but “how far away are you from the stereotype of Real America”.

I also enjoy the caveat that the below-poverty income level can’t be from graduate school - because apparently when you’re in graduate school, it doesn’t matter that you have no car, eat mostly beans and lentils, don’t stock your fridge with beer because you can’t afford to, or purchase clothing exclusively from thrift stores when you can’t deal with the holes in your jeans anymore. Graduate school does come with the promise of maybe something better - if you’re lucky - but in this economy I’m hardly assured of a high-paying, liberal-elite job after I defend. And that certainly doesn’t make the intervening years any less lean.

Sorry. Grad student with a chip on her shoulder.

Comment #18: Hobbes  on  01/30  at  11:29 PM

In moments of serious masochism I visit Vox Day’s site. It was…interesting seeing his fan-base deal with this test…

Comment #19: John Joel Glanton  on  01/30  at  11:37 PM

It wasn’t “ever worked on a factory floor”, it was “ever walked on a factory floor.”

Exactly. We don’t want to know if you’re actually an unwashed plebe; we want to know if you’re a rich conservative who knows how to slum it convincingly enough to help win elections.

Comment #20: junk science  on  01/30  at  11:38 PM

1. Real ‘Murcans from Texas do not buy Avon.  We buy Mary Kay.

2. How out of touch do you have to be to determine authenticity by consumer choices?  I’m from a small town in Texas and have never consumed a Miller Light or Budweiser in my 48.5 years on the planet.  This is because I developed good taste by, y’know, unauthentic things like reading and talking to people who knew about beer and wine and because Budweiser tastes bad.  I will not drink stuff that’s nasty just to demonstrate my Good Ol’ Boy bona fides. 

3. Finally, I really adored the “friends who made C’s” thing, as though none of the smart kids were popular.  Since I went to a real high school not governed by the script of a bad After School Special, the smart kids WERE THE POPULAR KIDS.  I suppose Murray likes to think that brains automatically disqualifies a person from being respected by Real People, but in the real world being perceived as dim is a liability.  That said, I had quite a few friends who weren’t honor students, largely because they kept using their homework for rolling papers.

Comment #21: KarenJo12  on  01/30  at  11:44 PM

The “friends who made C’s” thing is based firmly in Murray’s belief that rich people are smarter and minorities like Blacks and Hispanics are underclass because they are stupid.  So if you know stupid people you must have the “common touch.”

Comment #22: oldfeminist  on  01/30  at  11:58 PM

I didn’t take the “friends with C’s” thing to be a comment on popularity. I have to imagine popularity in the generally accepted “social elites of the school” sense is seen as especially un-American.

Comment #23: John Joel Glanton  on  01/31  at  12:00 AM

I scored a 52, but I don’t think my result is typical.  Yes, I’m an unrepentant beer snob, but I’ve not only *walked* a factory floor, I worked for a year at a machine stamping out car parts.  I’m an opera fan who loves baseball and hockey and so on.

Comment #24: Henry Holland  on  01/31  at  12:10 AM

Antigone, is it okay to use your questions on my blog?  They are great.

Comment #25: oldfeminist  on  01/31  at  12:14 AM

Hey, I worked on a factory floor for a full year — does it count against me that I was part owner of the factory? Also, do all the years I lived in poverty in a working-class neighborhood not count because I was a Berkeley hippie?

Comment #26: bad Jim  on  01/31  at  12:28 AM

There was a book that came out a few years ago that had a whole series of questions dealing with class.  I think it was meant for teachers to help them teach students from lower socioeconomic classes better by understanding that their culture was different.  Anyway, some of the questions might be dated, but it was a serious look at class markers, not this culture war crap. 

Any chance anyone knows the book?

Comment #27: Kit-Kat  on  01/31  at  12:31 AM

Murray implies that “real Americans” have limited income. How lucky for me that I scored mega-points on question four, having grown up below the poverty line and remained there for a while as an adult because things don’t change overnight just because you move out of the house and turn eighteen. But I’m confused how Murray reconciles some of his occupational, income, and social questions. When I was a kid my family never ate at any of the nine restaurants he mentions, or any others, because going out to eat was too damn expensive. But doesn’t he consider that level of poverty to be part of the genuine American experience? Since I work during the day, how am I supposed to watch Oprah, Dr. Phil, or Judge Judy? I’ve worked in a factory. I’ve done manual labor that makes my entire body ache. You know what I actively avoided every day after quitting time? Cigarette smoke - because it made me feel ever worse. I wasn’t the only one. If I may generalize for a moment, it often seemed to me like there were two types of “real Americans” of limited means. There were those who complained how tough life is while simultaneously celebrating their bleak existence by doing everything they could to ensure that their circumstances would never change - like wasting gobs of time and money on cigarettes, “domestic mass-market beer,” NASCAR, and television, more television, and still more television. The second type worked second jobs or extra shifts and went to school at night, which prevented them from seeing any of the top-10 TV shows or daytime television. They were thrifty and didn’t blow their money on shitty food at Applebees’s or on a pickup truck that they didn’t need. Some us us don’t even like country music, and as soon as we became professionally and financially successful moved to the big city where no “real American” would ever live and started spending their disposable income attending the symphony, opera, and even shopping at - gasp! - Whole Foods, thank you very much.

Comment #28: TDMC  on  01/31  at  12:47 AM

Where did this idiot come up with these quiz questions?  I grew up in a small town and never ate at Applebee’s because there weren’t any.  My town couldn’t support more than a handful of restaurants to begin with, let alone a mid-level chain that costs $10 a plate.  It was news when Sizzler moved into the neighboring town.  Applebee’s is suburban people food.  But suburbanites are probably the target audience for this prick.  Nobody I knew watched stupid NASCAR either, they watched NFL and us kids watched WWF.  Christ this shit is annoying.  I wish they would find another group of people to mythologize. 

For instance, how about an obnoxiously stereotypical quiz about the people who will actually buy this crap?  I would fail that quiz-
Do you have an automatic lawn sprinkler?  Have you ever called the cops on your neighbor’s party?  Have you ever shopped at the following- The Gap, Cinnabon, Abercrombie & Fitch?  Do you have “black friends”?  Do you know that your wife and kids hate you?  etc.

Comment #29: Satanicpanic  on  01/31  at  12:52 AM

I’m from one of those working class backgrounds, went to public school, and then went to one of those ‘rich people’ universities. And yes, I score higher because of my childhood background. But as someone who went to public school, I know there were people who were getting lower grades, but there were also people who got better grades and lettered. ‘Real Americans’ are more diverse than they’re given credit for, especially young Americans who are trying to discern their likes and dislikes. At the same time, in the culture section, there were movies and TV shows that were popular that were still a fun watch. What? Because I have a fancy degree, I’m not allowed to watch Lost? Or Inception? I didn’t get the memo that I had to sit around and watch foreign, sub-title films all the time.

Comment #30: hlynn117  on  01/31  at  01:21 AM

I love it that I get points because I smoke. There’s a funny thing I’ve noticed, though it may only apply to Orange County, California. At symphony concerts I’m often alone at intermission when I sneak out for a smoke with my glass of wine. At chamber music concerts, which are exclusively attended by an over-educated elite, I’m in a group (a smog?) of smokers. At least one smokes unfiltered Camels like me.

It’s hard to feel like the Marlboro Man when you’re between trios by Schubert and Shostakovich.

Comment #31: bad Jim  on  01/31  at  01:33 AM

What? Because I have a fancy degree, I’m not allowed to watch Lost? Or Inception? I didn’t get the memo that I had to sit around and watch foreign, sub-title films all the time.

I love how The King’s Speech was listed in the movie section, because that, cheap ass beer and NASCAR are totally congruous. It is almost like there is a wide variety of “mainstream.”

Also laughs for the fact that I scored into the 70’s, making me one of those “ordinary Americans,” who just happens to be Canadian. Because, as we all know, Republicans love how Canadians do things.

Comment #32: hypatia  on  01/31  at  01:37 AM

“REAL” Americans? Why do we still bother with this particular distinction? The only line that matters is the one between the 1% and 99%. Everything else is just smoke and mirror.

Comment #33: chiangalice  on  01/31  at  03:30 AM

Holy Tim Tebow, Batman…are you lefties still caught-up in that What the Matter with Kansas voodoo? The book is just anecdotal.

There are a whole host of lefty scholars who have debunked this nonsense. Here is the gist, form one of them…a Krugman favorite to drop a referral, probably since they both came out of Princeton:

Has the white working class abandoned the Democratic Party? No. White voters in the bottom third of the income distribution have actually become more reliably Democratic in presidential elections over the past half-century, while middle– and upper-income white voters have trended Republican. Low-income whites have become less Democratic in their partisan identifications, but at a slower rate than more affluent whites – and that trend is entirely confined to the South, where Democratic identification was artificially inflated by the one-party system of the Jim Crow era.

So you don’t have to worry about values. Folks are voting on their (perceived) economic interests. Thats where the battle is. Fight there, Liberals!

Don’t blow this next election b/c you’re still stuck on false-consciousness. You know I’m genuinely pulling for you. Now, make me proud.

Comment #34: Manju  on  01/31  at  04:02 AM

The above quote is from Larry Bartels.

http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/kansas.pdf

Comment #35: Manju  on  01/31  at  04:05 AM

Not a big fan of American piss beers, but having been born and raised in St. Louis, MO, I’d be lying my ass off if I didn’t admit to having drank quite a bit of the so-called “King of Beers” in my younger days. And Budweiser’s even nastier and homelier cousin, Natural Light. And Busch. And Michelob. Alright, pretty much every product made by the formerly American currently Belgian beer producer presently known as Anheuser-Busch InBev.

Comment #36: DTGslu2K  on  01/31  at  05:52 AM

Biggest irony about most American piss beers? They’re all produced by companies with foreign headquarters…

Anheuser-Busch InBev - Leuven, Belgium
SAB Miller - London, United Kingdom
Molson-Coors - Montreal, Canada

Comment #37: DTGslu2K  on  01/31  at  05:57 AM

@Comment #34: Manju on 01/31 at 04:02 AM

2/10.

Comment #38: atheist  on  01/31  at  08:13 AM

I got a 40. But I don’t think it really counts, because of how I earned them. I grew up in a 99% white, Evangelical Christian town with a population of 5000. But, it was actually an exurban cesspool. My dad made a lot of money and wanted to live in a small town for because it’s what people with lots of money and no interests outside of TV do.

But then, my parents got divorced and my mom and I moved to a big city, and actually lived near the poverty line in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. I had close friends in my new inner-city high school who probably didn’t good grades, but we didn’t talk about grades and I don’t know how hard they were trying.

I thought of Branson, MO because of a gag I saw on the Simpsons.

I went fishing with the family of a guy I was in a band with.

I eat at IHOP because it’s open 24 hours and it’s a popular place to go after going to see bands and performance art at DIY venues.

A lot of punks and artists smoke cigarettes, including many of my friends.

Now I guess I’m an ex-rich liberal who rents in a poor neighborhood and makes $25,000 a year working at a library, which often makes my body hurt when I shelve things on low shelves.

Comment #39: weenertron  on  01/31  at  08:29 AM

Manju, you need more cowbell.

Comment #40: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  01/31  at  09:24 AM

Also laughs for the fact that I scored into the 70’s, making me one of those “ordinary Americans,” who just happens to be Canadian.

41 here, though I’d be a touch higher if I drank. Ironically, part of the reason I scored even that high was a combination of rural roots and middle-class adulthood. As others have mentioned, there WERE no Applebees where I grew up (I’m still getting over places like that existing.  The only sit-down chain I went to as a child was Pizza Delight, which I consider to be not much above fast food). Our choices for eating out were fast food or independently owned places. It’s only in the last five years that eating at any of the places listed in that question has been an option for me. So while I have very rural roots, probably about a third of the points I scored came from a middle-class, rather than working class, lifestyle.

(BTW, he can go stuff himself on the lettering bit. Not only did my school not have that…whatever it is, but being a sports-oriented school, I was bored out of my mind from lack of extra-curricular activities that interested me. Also, some of us just don’t have the co-ordination for school sports. It’s not my fault if my body won’t co-operate with me.)

Comment #41: Jayn Newell  on  01/31  at  10:01 AM

what a deeply stupid quiz. I, the (formerly) middle-class European scored 47; my boyfriend, the full-blooded American redneck scored 57(though, some of the questions are “you or your spouse” which explains some of the similarity in scores).

total quiz-design fail, especially since my “bus trip” was a weekend-trip from Frankfurt to London wink

Comment #42: jadehawk  on  01/31  at  11:11 AM

I know that this topic is shooting fish in a barrel, but I can’t help but join in.  Even the big chain restaurants hardly fit neatly in the real American/coastal elite dichotomy.  It’s not just, as many have pointed out, that the target audience of these chains consists primarily of suburban families when the kids have outgrown fast food/Denny’s but aren’t quite ready for too much diversity of taste.  But even the chains make all sorts of gestures towards the sort of multicultural diversity that real Americans supposedly hate.  They all serve tons of fajitas and paninis and whatnot.  A place that only served burgers and fries would hardly last.  Chilis and Olive Garden etc are at least as popular as Applebees (and most families go to both), Panera Bread is sort of like a cleaned up version of a coffee shop, what with its soup and wi fi etc.  Lord knows, having eaten at these places for years, I’m not claiming that they’re authentic, nor am I trying to defend them.  That’s not my point.  But they gesture in those directions which means that they don’t get off on hating diversity and city life.  The claim, really, is that they’re bringing all this wild stuff out to the burbs in a safe environment.  There’s lots of complicated analysis that could go with it (I often think, as I sit glumly waiting for a table), but “this place is for real Americans who hate foreigners and big city phonies” ain’t even close.  Anyone who’s spent a Friday night there recently for his/her 12 year old’s birthday dinner would know that.

Comment #43: SK  on  01/31  at  11:36 AM

And another thing, here in Buffalo not too many people are into NASCAR, but the working class salt of the earth stereotype loves his Hockey.  So is Hockey authentic, cuz of the violence and the scorn heaped on it by the NPR lovers?  (Not really, of course, but you know what I mean).  Or is it coastal elite cuz its foreign and involves skates rather than gas?

Comment #44: SK  on  01/31  at  11:37 AM

And how about the artsy shows that are on basic cable?  Is “Justified” elite cuz Terri Gross loves it?  Or authentic cuz it has a cowboy and is set in rural America?  How about “Breaking Bad”?  Real, cuz of the violence and the southwest setting?  Fake/dangerous cuz of all the Hispanics? 

Man, it must be hard to keep all these insipid stereotypes straight.

Comment #45: SK  on  01/31  at  11:39 AM

Anyone who can design a sensible questionnaire is part of the untrustworthy elite.

Comment #46: Nancy Lebovitz  on  01/31  at  12:03 PM

I just noticed that he give you extra credit for being “outside the bubble” if you not only have a best friend who’s an evangelical, but you are also an evangelical.  That’s not outside the bubble, that’s inside a very specific, often very thick bubble.

Comment #47: oldfeminist  on  01/31  at  01:09 PM

Draft PBR FTFW. That is all.

Comment #48: Damemusic  on  01/31  at  01:22 PM

Scored less than 20 (and yes, I grew up in one of the Blue SuperZips—SF Bay Area). Also, at least 4th generation college grad on my dad’s side, 2nd generation on my mother’s side. So, the stereotype is basing the quiz off of works somewhat (catching us Liberal Elites in a trap of Conservative incoherence).

Comment #49: Thealogian  on  01/31  at  03:23 PM

Biggest irony about most American piss beers? They’re all produced by companies with foreign headquarters…

So true, Bud Light and Stella Artois are the same company. Yet the former is salt of the earth American and the second frou frou European. Makes sense.

Ironically, part of the reason I scored even that high was a combination of rural roots and middle-class adulthood. As others have mentioned, there WERE no Applebees where I grew up

That’s what I found so disturbing! I scored so high and there are so many American things that I am rarely exposed to. I think Denny’s is the only one with any real presence in Ontario. I think there maybe one Applebee’s and one IHOP in the entire province. When I was growing up the closest chains besides fast food were Swiss Chalet and Kelsey’s.

Of course someone has to pop Murray’s bubble from reality. I love how apparently rich people only let Pride Parades in their areas, or something. Has he not heard of the Macy’s Day Parade?

And no one rides the Greyhound, I say this as someone who gets on the Greyhound to visit my family. The 25 million figure he gives adds up to about 8% of the population. About 40% of Americans took an airplane somewhere during the same time period.

Comment #50: hypatia  on  01/31  at  03:42 PM

I scored a 56. I’m pretty solidly blue collar, despite growing up in a household headed by an engineer. I don’t drink beer, fish or watch TV. I only like kid movies and horror movies. I don’t eat at Applebee’s or any of the others; we either don’t have them or they are too expensive. (my night out is a $5 value meal from Zaxbys’s or Subway) I’ve been to Branson a few times, including before there was anything but Silver Dollar City and Shepherd of the Hills,  and work with a guy form there.

I’ve worn work uniforms and works some hard jobs. Try slinging a ton and a half of coins over the course of an eight hour shift, in 30lb bags. Or moving a 250lb transmission, without any help. And just because Gay Pride parades are the most common parade I participate in doesn’t mean I don’t turn out for the local Christmas parade, the Dragon*Con parade and my old hometown’s Bushwhacker Days celebration.

Comment #51: Angelia Sparrow  on  01/31  at  03:59 PM

As a member of the UK middle class, I thought I’d give this a go for a laugh.  But I had to give up, since I didn’t even understand most of the questions.  I had to laugh at this one though:

Have you ever participated in a parade not involving global warm-ing, a war protest, or gay rights?

Does the Million Women Rise March count?  Snort.

Comment #52: Katherine  on  01/31  at  04:36 PM

Oooh, I forgot about the Dragon Con parade. More points for me!

Comment #53: felagund  on  01/31  at  04:42 PM

Have you ever participated in a parade not involving global warm-ing, a war protest, or gay rights?
<blockquote>Does the Million Women Rise March count?  Snort.

</blockquote>

Or the Labor Day Parade?

Comment #54: MissCherryPi  on  01/31  at  04:53 PM

kit-kat at #27

I believe the book you’re thinking of is A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K Payne.

My mom’s an elementary school teacher at a school with a lot of students from impoverished neighbourhoods and the principal encouraged them to read it.

Comment #55: dan_brodribb  on  01/31  at  05:15 PM

Those cultural markers are drawn from such disparate cultures—but they’re all white cultures. NASCAR, country music, fishing, and evangelical Christianity are Southern whites. Working at a factory is more Northern/Midwestern blue-collar whites; factory workers here in North Carolina, anyway, are most likely to be immigrants. Chain restaurants are suburbia.

Long-distance buses are a bit weird, because in the South right now, you don’t take a Greyhound unless you’re really desperately poor (which means you’re likelier to be non-white). Rural or suburban Southerners all have cars. You may not go places where you have to fly, but you wouldn’t take a long-distance bus. “You have driven yourself/your family on every trip over 50 miles in the past 5 years” would be the better cultural marker for that.

And who doesn’t like parades? Is not doing parades even a thing?

Also, I thought it was interesting that in the question about “Have you ever held a job that caused you to be in pain,” your feet hurting from standing up counted, but headaches and carpal tunnel did not. I suspect that a lot of the current white working class isn’t in manufacturing or agriculture. They’re in retail and low-wage office jobs—temping, call centers, etc.—where you’re likely to have a broken-down desk and chair, and to spend hours typing without being allowed to stand up and stretch. Why does retail count as sufficiently “real American,” but low-wage office jobs don’t?

Comment #56: snowmentality  on  01/31  at  05:16 PM

YES, Ruby Payne is LOVELY. I work for an advocacy group that provides professional development for teachers and Ruby Payne was our speaker at our big summer conference. She’s lovely and by no means a culture warrior. Her lecture was nuanced, well researched and interesting…not the kind of bs Murray and his ilk are interested in exploiting for the purposes of class warfare. See more about her HERE:http://www.lecturemanagement.com/speakers/ruby-payne.htm

Comment #57: Thealogian  on  01/31  at  05:20 PM

Re: Comment #15: oldfeminist on 01/30 at 10:54 PM

Damn, those are harsh.  And true.  I think far more Americans have done those, even those rural folks.  Admittedly, the conclaves of foreign languages are mostly in cities, but there are more than a few out in the sticks - we stayed in a motel run by an immigrant Indian family in Oklahoma, for instance.

Most of the restaurants he listed didn’t exist outside of cities until the last two decades.  And didn’t exist in the state I grew up in!  What an elitist he is…

Comment #58: Crissa  on  01/31  at  05:35 PM

Snowmentality: Because his thing isn’t really class.  Or money.  Or the size of your town.  Or even whiteness as such, because he’s presuming his readers’ whiteness.  (The Bell Curve, remember.)

That stuff about parades: He doesn’t want to know about marching in support or protest of something, but happy, peppy parades about patriotism or Thanksgiving or so forth.  & that made me realize: He goes on at length as he explains the scoring about the top-grossing films, the highest-rated TV shows, the most popular restaurants, etc.  He gives a lot of consumer stats in the this-point-that-millions (but no evidence of how much actual overlap there is in them).  He asks about if you lettered, if you fish, if you smoke, if you drink beer, if you’re a Rotarian, if you’ve served in the military.

This quiz couldn’t be grabbing your lapels & screaming any louder: How Normal Are You?  (Full disclosure: I scored in the teens.  So, not very.  Who knew.)

I.e. he gives a curt nod to diversity on the preface page, & then proceeds to judge the thickness of my bubble not on how much I’ve stepped outside it, but on how much I conform.  He’s not calling me spoiled, or sheltered, or really even ignorant.  He’s calling me a misfit.  And boy howdy am I ever used to hearing that from wingnuts.

Comment #59: GSDavis  on  01/31  at  05:58 PM

My lasty trip to Applebees was back in 2007 when one was next to my motel while working a job in upstate NY.  How many visits am I into being unAmerican.

Comment #60: helen w. h.  on  01/31  at  06:13 PM

I’m coming pretty late to this one, but I wanted to point out some (unsurprising) sexism in the question about whether your primary breadwinner growing up worked a blue-collar job. Mine didn’t - because SHE worked a PINK-COLLAR job (municipal claims adjusting). I gave myself the points anyway. What an ignorant blowhard.

Comment #61: rolando74  on  01/31  at  11:39 PM

Reading David Brooks today, it appears Murray did indeed chosen a position - the evil snobs are the superior people here, and Real Americans are an unwashed mass of perverts who need to straighten up and fly right

Comment #62: John Joel Glanton  on  02/01  at  12:31 AM

Murray is pointing out a serious problem. The white working class used to have a pathway up, particularly during the post-WWII era and into the 80s. A white man with no particular talents could finish public high school and get a job at a factory earning enough money for a car, a house and to support his wife and children, without his wife going to work, and with expectations that his children would be more educated and earn more while working less. Unfortunately, that group decided to self destruct in the 80s, persuaded that the culture war was more important than the economic war. There have always been non-whites, extremely poor whites, female type people and the like who have always been excluded from this, but now, even white males are adopting the viewpoint of everyone else who was locked out of their shot of the American dream. Whether they eventually reach the point where they decide that the economics trumps culture remains to be seen.

I remember some essayist back in the late 60s who argued “we’re all niggers now”. He wasn’t referring to skin color. He was referring to class. We weren’t all niggers back then, but we are now.

Comment #63: Kaleberg  on  02/01  at  12:34 AM

OK, posted my version on my blog.  You can get there by clicking on my name below.  Additional suggestions welcome.

But!  I just got my first really poisonous blog comment.  So I’ve enabled comment moderation.  :/

Comment #64: oldfeminist  on  02/01  at  02:08 AM
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