Heh, it reminds me of an op-ed by some douche that I read in the NY Times recently. He had the perfect solution: Notre Dame should have Obama speak, but not give him an honorary degree! Because his position on abortion rights is everything that the church stands against! I mean, right, because there’s no common ground at all, no other accomplishments that he has that could possibly merit an honorary degree from Notre Dame and recognition from a major Catholic institution. Like becoming president of the United States, let alone the first black president of the United States.

...that’ll show ‘em?

Few indeed, I fear, are sufficently pro-choice to satisfy our denelian . . .  :(

I think Glendon should go for it. Sure, whatever petty-ass thing you wanna do babe, just go ahead and do it. Bring it on, as it were.

“Ms. Glendon served President Bush both as Vatican ambassador and as a member of his Council on Bioethics, and she headed a panel that Mitt Romney, a Republican, picked to advise him on judicial matters during his run for president last year. She was one of 60 prominent American scholars who in 2002 signed a letter defending the nation’s “war on terror” as “not only morally permitted, but morally necessary.”

Pope John Paul II appointed her to the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, and she served as the Vatican’s representative at the United Nations’ 1995 Beijing Conference on Women, in which she presented the church’s view that condoms should not be used for family planning or in HIV-prevention programs.” - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Well, I can see how her devotion to Life is a critical driving force in her life.  After all, even though Bush Jr. practically put a gun against the head of over 4,000 American soldiers and pulled the trigger, and even though because Bush Jr. needed a war to make him a manly man, and in the process kill hundreds-of-thousands of Iraqi civilians, Glendon could still represent him at the Vatican without a peep.  Not to mention Jr. being the former governor of Texas who okayed the greatest number of executions in the modern era.  So she’s very obviously pro-Life.  No hypocrisy there.

And of course, to go to Beijing and remind everyone that condoms are Satan’s Little Latex Bags of Sin.  Stand there in a country that has suffered under the crushing weight of excess human reproduction for decades/centuries and tell them “No, no, no!  No condoms for you!”?  Makes sense to me…
...actually it doesn’t make any sense at all, but I’m sure Dana will drop by and explain it…

So, actual deaths and misery — GOOD!

Theoretical deaths, attributed to someone not even indirectly responsible — BAD!  Very, very, unforgivably BAD!...

Theoretical deaths, attributed to someone not even indirectly responsible — BAD!  Very, very, unforgivably BAD!…

Won’t someone think of the theories?

She was one of 60 prominent American scholars who in 2002 signed a letter defending the nation’s “war on terror” as “not only morally permitted, but morally necessary.”

Right there.  She’s got no business being offered an honorary degree, since JPII thought that the Iraq War was unjust.  He didn’t declare it “Officially Unjust” b/c then Catholics in America would have had to have done something about it, and Vatican City doesn’t piss off superpowers lightly, regardless of the evil they do.

But her letter was a protest letter to the Pope asking him to reconsider his position.  Sort of like the letters Catholics for Choice send the Pope asking him to reconsider his positions.

Damn those Catholics and their doctrine of conscience!!!!  It would be so much easier if Ratzi just revoked that and said the True Doctrine is “You do what I tell you to do, silently and reverently, without thought about what anything means.  No questioning authority or demanding that the hierarchy stop raping children.”

Why is abortion the only issue that Catholics care about?  You could torture animals for fun, eat dead people, rape a child, let people starve to death, and support the death penalty, but as long as you want abortion to be illegal, then you’re just fine in the eyes of some Catholics.  Why is this one issue so much more important to them than anything else?  I just don’t understand it.

Yeah, she has Christianity down, all right, because the central tenet of Christianity is not only to never hang out with anyone who disagrees with you on a moral issue, but to not hang out with anyone who hangs out with people who disagree.

You know, just like Jesus. The narrow-minded guy. Good thing he only hung out with the Pharisees and other socially-approved sorts. Be a big scandal otherwise.

It’s the only issue ASSHOLE Catholics care about.

Unfortunately, JPII was an asshole who got the Papal Throne at a young age and staffed the Cardinals with his own brand of Correctors who Oppose Vatican II and Think the Laity Is Insufficiently Respectful.

He also passed a rule the barred many of the older Cardinals, those who were pro-VII reforms, from voting in the Papal Elections, so that Ratzi was elected by men picked by JPII (and Ratzi who ran things for years after JPII’s Parkinson’s was bad)

These men embrace Opus Dei and Mel Gibson’s schismatic sect.  Recommuncating Williamson?  Really?

As for abortion, they see it as their salvation issue.  Francis Cardinal George, Chicago’s Archbishop and President of the Bishops Conference made loud statements that he is going out of his way to attack Obama over abortion rights issues.

He sees it as a way of regaining moral authority.  Remember, this is a man who despite going through all the meetings about child abuse IGNORED the rules and let Daniel McCormack continue to prey on at least two additional boys after his behavior had been reported.  He is a man who tried to get convicted pedophile Maday an early release, even offering the Cardinal’s Mansion as a place for him to stay—as he has let other priests who were removed from parishes for suspected pedophila stay.

Many many Chicago Catholics are disgusted with him, and he thinks if he casts himself as a Savior of Unborn Innocent Babes, that will somehow clear away the taint of McCormack, Maday, et. al.

He’s wrong.  But that’s why you see the hierarchy screaming about the EVILS of ABORTION and how MISGUIDED and SINFUL and NOT DESERVING OF RESPECT President Obama is.  It’s the marching orders and talking points decided on by the Bishop’s Conference.

“Look!  We’re saving BAYBEEZ!  Pay no attention to the pedophilia we allowed or the fact Bernie Law lives in luxury instead of facing a grand jury in Boston!  We’re gonna save the BAYBEEZ!”

Again, just b/c it’s legal doesn’t mean you need to partake.  Catholics are supposed to be able to face temptation down, not be scared to death of it.  They are also supposed to use their brains, so that when a 9 year old is raped by her stepfather and the pregnancy is killing her, you let the doctors save her life by terminating the pregnancy without damning them to hell.

Why is this one issue so much more important to them than anything else?  I just don’t understand it.

Because this one issue is the Rubicon of patriarchal authoritarianism.  War, capital punishment, rape, animal abuse, etc., may be unpleasant and generally disapproved behaviors, but as exercises of power, they still validate an acceptable hierarchy—strong nations over weak, rich over poor, humans over animals, and so on.  Abortion allows women to both deny the authority of men and value themselves over potential future souls for the Church, and that’s much more of a foundational attack than a mere example of excess.

Cool.  The less fake, bullshit awards catholic wingnuts get the better.

Oh, and yes, fuck the catholic church in general.

Wow. I may lose 15 seconds of sleep over this tonight.

I saw the same piece MikeEss did, and came to some similar conclusions. If anything, Notre Dame ought to have been commended for honoring two people who had disagreements with official church policy.

Well, of course Obama shouldn’t speak at Notre Dame.  And, the Pope shouldn’t talk to him either…ever.  And the Ambassador from the Holy See should be recalled.  While they’re at it, every Catholic Democrat should be excommunicated.  The Party Platform should be declared anathema and placed on the banned book list. 

Now that the Church has Newt (three times divorced) what else do they need?

“It’s the only issue ASSHOLE Catholics care about”

I’m sorry to inform you, Caren, that ASSHOLE Catholics (TM) are also rabid about Fear of Teh Gayz.  Homosexuality drives some of them as crazy as abortion does.

latts

Thank you, thank you for writing what I’ve thought so succintly! I’ll be putting your paragraph to good use, if you don’t mind.

I laugh(and cry)at how most people, even people who like to think they’re feminists, don’t get how the right to abortion changes the current, fundamental relationship between women and the world.

The catholic fathers get it completely.

Thanks to archive.org, I was able to find that 826 Notre Dame faculty, staff, students, and alumni signed a petition protesting the choice of George W. Bush as commencement speaker in 2001:

To:  Rev. Edward A. Malloy
We, the undersigned, are angered by the Rev. Edward A. Malloy’s invitation to President George W. Bush to address the May Commencement and to receive an Honorary Doctorate from our University. The policies of the Bush administration which will, inter alia, give a huge tax refund to the rich, cut by 86% programs that provide health care access for the uninsured, abandon the environment – both nationally and globally - to the predatory drive for corporate profits, and promote another arms race with its Strategic Defense Initiative, contradict Notre Dame’s mission as a Catholic university. Furthermore, Fr. Malloy’s invitation demeans Notre Dame, coming as the Bush administration pursues its ruthless agenda in the immediate aftermath of a deceitful campaign that promised “compassionate conservatism.” In this context we insist that all future invitations to address our Commencement Exercises be determined in consultation with the faculty of Notre Dame.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

http://web.archive.org/web/20010718004109/www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?ndbush

They left out that the merciless Bush presided over the executions of 152 people as Governor, in contravention of church teaching. Similarly, bishops excused his Catholic brother, Jeb, for letting some twenty people be executed, by saying that following this church teaching was “a matter of individual conscence.”

Once again, abortion is the only sin the hierarchy cares about.

catgirl—because anti-choice means anti-woman, and Catholic culture, especially conservative Catholic culture, is astoundingly anti-woman.

So how long do y’all think it will be before this gets turned into “Barack Obama nixed Glendon’s award because she would have embarassed him”?

LCforevah, feel free to use anything, but it’s kinda wordy & disorganized   The bottom line is (IMNSHO) that all of the other issues that catgirl mentioned involve abuses of power, but the ownership of power itself is not questioned.  Legal abortion actually gives a particular type of power to those who would not have it in the RCC’s ideal world, and that’s more of a threat than making sad eyes about established powers being somewhat less benevolent than we’d like.

Okay, that’s wordy too… anyway, anything that threatens the distribution of power is going to piss big institutions off more than misuse of power.

Dang! That woman Glendon has to turn up and make me embarrassed to claim my (and her) alma mater, a Seven Sisters college of Protestant heritage.

She doesn’t really seem to get how commencement speeches work.

prestigious schools send out such requests to a long list of high-profile individuals, in order. If THE POTUS HIMSELF agrees to do so, well, good job. the guy who managed that invite probably is going to get a nice promotion, as he’s clearly good at his job.

Such a speech is typically not politically divisive, and the school is generally expected to extend honorary degrees to the speaker.

this is how it is done.

Also, while Notre Dame is founded by Catholics, it’s a thoroughly secular school. You do not need to be Catholic to attend. It isn’t a seminary. As such, receiving a degree from that fine institution is not a sign that you agree with catholic dogma in any way. The same is true of honorary degrees.

And if you think for a minute that throwing such a temper tantrum of “someone I would share a stage with has different opinions from me so I’m taking my ball and going home” is going to change anyone’s minds about who they invite, you’re right. Schools aren’t in a habit of inviting people who make a public stink over such things toa highly ceremonious and respectful event. I hope you enjoyed any such public speaking engagements you had before, because this is “shit on your boss’s desk” level of bridge burning.