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Next entry: Against hack snobbery Previous entry: The “Nice Guy” defense

Taking a harder look at car culture

Via Atrios comes this story about how the Spanish city of Murcia has decided to approach their traffic congestion problem by offering free lifetime passes on public transit if you turn in your car.  (I'm unclear on how it works, but I'm going to assume that you actually can sell your car at market value, because otherwise people are going to balk.)  But one of the things I love that supports this campaign is advertising and public stunts to emphasize how shitty it is to actually drive a car around a city.   Things like this video:

And this adorable public art project that draws attention to how hard it is to park in the city:

I like this campaign because it addresses one of the biggest obstacles to overcome when tackling the overuse of cars, which is that people are acclimated to the hassle and don't really stop to think about alternatives.  When my family was up visiting and I was taking them around on the subway, there were a couple jokes made about how I never liked driving, which is treated by Texans as an eccentricity on par with not liking tacos or Patsy Cline.  Like it's not the end of the world, but what kind of weirdo are you?  

But the thing is, I do like driving.....long distances at  high speeds.  Driving and puttering around a crowded city in a vehicle that is fifteen times the size of your body is what I hate.  I especially hate how driving has turned walking even short distances into an unimaginable taboo.  In fact, the thing that raised my consciousness about how silly driving culture gets is the unquestioned tradition of circling around and around a parking lot, trying to find the closest space, ignoring spaces that are literally only a minute further by foot away, because you need to conserve your steps like they're fucking gold-plated diamonds.  I've seen people spend 5 and even 10 minutes circling around trying to avoid walking an extra 60 seconds.  Once you see the stupidity in that, other things stop making sense: people insisting on dropping you off at your door instead of on a convenient corner, even in cases where dropping someone off at their door requires you to turn the car around in traffic, driving up both your blood pressure and wasting time that could be spent doing something more productive, like picking your nose or playing a round of Angry Birds.  And once I realized while living in Austin that I could walk, take the bus, or ride my bike instead of parallel park downtown, there was no going back.  I never really learned how to do that well, probably for the same reason that I bark my limbs on immoveable objects more than the average person.  

People are naturally conservative.  I mean small-c conservative, of course---we do things because that's how we've always done them.  People who are constantly wondering if there's a better way to do something are a distinct minority in our culture.  Crafting public policy requires an understanding of this. In the U.S., I think, there's a tendency to assume that people are rational actors and if you give them two options, they'll just gravitate towards the superior one.  And that's true, if the options are on a level playing field.  If people perceive something as a problem, they will move to problem-solve.  But people don't perceive the time they waste in the car as a problem.  Suggesting that they have a better use of their time than sitting in traffic and circling around looking for parking reads to many people as suggesting that it's a waste of time to sleep at night.  So you have to really work hard at getting people to actually look at what's right under their noses. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:51 AM • (84) Comments

I agree with this post in its entirety. I’d like to add that people experience transit in different ways depending on the surroundings. I love to walk in (some) cities because I love the visual stimulation of lots of shop windows, people, events, movement, narrative. That’s actually not true of all cities. Try walking in a Florida “city” and you will see what I mean—miles and miles of stultifying, unshaded, faceless sidewalks that run along blind walls of gated communities. Broken every half mile by an eight lane highway with a light switch geared to cars and their convenience, a huge mall of parking spaces, and a set of forgetabble shops.  You really can’t blame people for preferring to drive in airconditioned comfort from point a to point b rather than transit on foot or by bus through these cultural and emotional wastelands.

Density matters, as does beauty, wherever we go. Our highway culture and the suburban sprawl of many American cities makes the space between things meaningless and therefore people don’t want to experience it.

aimai

Comment #1: aimai  on  07/14  at  09:56 AM

Very timely post, with LA, the “first city built for the automobile” preparing for what’s being referred to as “carmageddon” this weekend.  All these dire warnings, advice to build a bunker and stock up on nonperishables, and for godsake, don’t leave your house! circulating for months and I haven’t heard one single commentator question why we think it’s a good idea to spend $1 billion on the 405 instead of…I don’t know, building a subway system that actually covers most of the city. 

Comment #2: chareth cutestory  on  07/14  at  10:05 AM

Good point, aimai.  I will add to it, however, that I think a walking-centric culture is what causes a visually interesting city more than vice versa.  When you have a walkable city, people have an investment in creating visual interest.  Store owners, for instance, get more money by making attractive storefronts with products on display in windows.  In Brooklyn, people actually bother to make their stoops attractive because they know people will be walking by and judging.  They are also more likely to sit on stoops because they people walking by gives them something to look at.  The miserable landscapes are a reaction to cars; who can bother to prettify an area if no one is actually going to spend time in it?

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/14  at  10:13 AM

My city is making a big push to get people to accept bicycling, and it’s great.  If it works, I can already see that my quality of life will increase significantly.  I live walking distance from work though, and my job offers free bus passes, so I’m already on board with all of this.  I have a car, but I enjoy my life better when I don’t spend a lot of time in it.

(OK, one instance in which I will shamelessly misuse a car is when I’m in a huge black tar parking lot.  I’ll drive from one side to the other to go to different stores because I hate walking across parking lots.)

The big push-back is going to come from people who bought houses way out and are now stuck in them because they’re underwater on their mortgages.  While I have no sympathy for people who want to drive because they think of it as some vague right, I have big truckloads of sympathy for people who can’t escape from car culture because they’re trapped in far-flung value-less houses.  Yeah, maybe they could have thought things out better, but now they can’t really escape.

Comment #4: Eileen  on  07/14  at  10:27 AM

The attitudes some people can get towards the idea of walking even short distances are really weird. A few months ago I was walking to my gym when one of the women who take the same class as me pulled up beside me and asked if I wanted a lift there. I was literally just four houses away from the gym. I had a hard time not blurting out “are you out of your mind”.

Comment #5: Kate H  on  07/14  at  10:37 AM

My disgust with car culture really came to a head while I was living in Philly. It’s the little things that just started to really pile up: Like the sound of tires on pavement (I mean, engines and mufflers are annoying, but really, the sound of worn tires constantly wicking the pavement just started to set my teeth on edge). It’s stuff like knowing that in the summertime, the heat and humidity would be exponentially worse because of the dust and pollution, and the blacktop radiating the heat back up. It was walking the sidewalks in a continual corrider, hemmed on one side by houses (fine), but on the other side by a wall of slowly-rusting metal. It was the sound of waking up at 2 in the morning to the sound of a drunk driver side-swiping an entire block of parked cars.

I mean, we can talk about how awful the drivers in Philly are. We can talk about their disregard for stop signs, the fact that they will actually honk to let you know they’re about to run a red light so you better get out of the cross walk (beep beep! I’m about to break the law!) We can talk about the rage and the fact that if you put on your signal to indicate that you’re trying to merge or change lanes, people will actually speed up to close the gap to prevent you from merging because fuck you that’s why. We can talk about the double-parking.

Riding my bicycle in Philly was tough. The bike lanes were in between the parking lane and the right lane—so you got people using it as a “stopping lane,” the bike lane was constantly littered with broken glass and litter, and of course you were always in danger of having someone open the driver’s side door into you. But the fact is that it’s faster. Watching someone in a jaguar sit in traffic as I breeze by them on my broken-down Huffy is pretty satisfying.

Comment #6: Mighty Ponygirl  on  07/14  at  10:39 AM

This post resonated with me so much.
I grew up in Small Rural Farming Town, where the accepted ethos is that you walk if you are in town and the trip is less than, like, 2 miles, but you drive (in your truck) otherwise. I walked - with my siblings and the kid down the street - to school starting in 3rd grade. The trip was eight blocks. In the process, I crossed two major streets, one of which had a crossing guard.
I went to college in a dense, walking-centric community that also had public transit. I walked or took transit everywhere, and it was nice.
I now live in the suburbs. The public transit - an extension of the city’s - sucks (it’s not bad in the city itself). The sidewalks are in shitty condition and people stare at you if you walk. If you don’t have a car, you must walk on nasty sidewalks through unpleasant-looking neighborhoods or wait for a infrequently-running bus that takes a roundabout route.
But I’m a nut or something because I bemoan this. I don’t mind driving - on the interstate or highway - but I’d like to be able to walk two and a half blocks to the convenience store to buy milk without having my life threatened by an unsafe pathway.

Comment #7: Esteleth  on  07/14  at  10:41 AM

I live in Manhattan, and commute to my job in Norwalk by train.  It takes me 2 hours door to door, and I don’t mind it at all.  The train (plus my ipad) gives me the luxury of reading the news (and pandagon!), napping, watching the scenery go by.  Other people in my group drive, and they don’t get to do any of those things.

The only disadvantages of the train are that I have to be conscientious about what time it is, because I can’t miss the last shuttle from the office (a problem that will mostly be solved when we move to Stamford in two months), and I can’t do conference calls (unlike my colleagues who have hands-free setups in their cars).  Well, I *could* do conference calls, but I refuse to be *that* person, so that’s really personal choice. 

And even with the commute, my in-house job still gets me home significantly earlier than my old, midtown, law firm job that regularly involved working late into the night. 

But people keep asking me when I’m going to bite the bullet and buy a car.  I keep having to explain to them that the answer is…never.  Between my parents, who keep a car in the city when they’re in town on weekdays (only using it to drive back and forth to their weekend house in the country) and zipcar, I have all of the motor vehicle access that I would ever need. 

All that being said, I grew up in the suburbs (and a somewhat remote part of the suburbs), where lack of access to a car meant lack of access to just about anything.  Until you got yourself to the main part of “town” you couldn’t actually walk anywhere.

Comment #8: sam  on  07/14  at  10:44 AM

I’m a huge walking/public transport fan, and I think most people are once they have the sort of epiphanies mentioned in the post and some of the comments here (it’s how I switched, especially the insight about Parking Sucks.)

I think it will also become more and more necessary as gas prices climb and all, and that’s all fine, but I don’t look forward to all the kvetching about the horrible emasculating liberal agenda of walking and riding the bus being forced down our helpless, quivering throats.

Comment #9: Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist  on  07/14  at  10:47 AM

(based, of course, on the assumption that cars are going to be outlawed, which I don’t advocate and I imagine very few people would. Never stops the fRightwing claims to the contrary.)

Comment #10: Xecklothxayyquou Gilchrist  on  07/14  at  10:48 AM

Oh, the parking lot circling kills me. It doesn’t enhance the safety of parking lots, which isn’t great to begin with, to have more people circling them, half-distracted by eyeballing for closer spots.

I wonder if it’s even necessarily laziness. At least for me, I refuse to circle lots because I can’t stand feeling like a moron, but I feel an absurd sense of accomplishment if I pull up to the grocery store and get the closest non-handicap spot to the door. I don’t mind walking and I’m quit likely going to walk through every aisle in a large supermarket, so I’m not saving any energy, proportionally. It’s that I feel like I won something, creating a silly game out of every day life to pass the time.

Comment #11: witless chum  on  07/14  at  10:57 AM

On the last Skeptics Guide to the Universe they were talking about self-driving cars research and one of the non-Steve Novellas (sorry, I forget which is Jay/Evan/Bob) immediately piped up with how awesome it would be to be able to pay attention to something else besides driving. Then someone else crushed my dreams by saying it’d make us more productive. If only I could work on the way to work! Arggh.

Comment #12: witless chum  on  07/14  at  11:02 AM

I grew up in the suburbs, being driven everywhere except for bike rides to my neighbor-friends’ houses, but I always longed for the mysterious world of buses and subways.  Back then I think I just didn’t want to be dependent on my parents to take me places, but the feeling that it’s a burden to have to get into the car to go somewhere has stayed with me. Since I was 13 I’ve always lived in places where I could walk to things, at least school and a store or two.  When I stay with people who live in car-dependent suburbs, on streets with no sidewalks, it feels like being in jail. If I can’t walk, I can’t breathe.

@5, I had a similar thing happen.  I was staying with my (ex-)inlaws in the South and I needed to go to the store for something, so I walked there.  It was just around the corner, maybe two blocks away, but my hosts acted like I was going for a three-day hike in the Gobi Desert.  I went to the store, made my purchase, and as I was walking back a car full of people I’d never met pulled over and asked me if I needed a ride.  I was on a sidewalk and everything.  They weren’t hitting on me, they just couldn’t fathom walking two blocks to the store and assumed that something must be terribly wrong, like my car had broken down or something.  Weird.

Comment #13: Flora  on  07/14  at  11:03 AM

Sam, agreed, that’s one aspect of public transit that a lot of people don’t think about until they’re forced to use it.  And then it’s really hard to want to go back.  Like I had to do a 45 minute train ride yesterday and for the occasion, I finally went ahead and got Angry Birds.  And it’s a fun game! Shooting pigs with birds is a far better use of my time than sitting in traffic.

Comment #14: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/14  at  11:20 AM

Flora, I had to deal with that last time I was in El Paso.  I got a ride from my grandmother’s house to the hotel and was like, “Just drop me off at the entrance of the hotel,” and my relative driving looked at me like I’d said, “I think I’ll take a 5 mile run in 120 degree weather.”  So instead of saving herself an assload of trouble turning the car around, she insisted on taking me right to the door.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/14  at  11:24 AM

Where I live, the northern part of the state brings in over 90% of the revenue but the legislature is controlled by people in the southern part of the state who are heavily invested in car culture. Anytime money for public transit is even mentioned it gets shot down. It’s super maddening because as the population density increases where I live, having to drive anywhere becomes more and more of a hassle. But the hicks in state government have a “that’s what you get for living amongst those dirty hippies” attitude so I don’t see things changing anytime soon.

And don’t get me started about how entrenched car culture is in my hometown—Detroit. That’s the first place I ever saw a drive thru Starbucks. But that was smart of Starbucks because Detroit is another place where people will act like you came from Mars if you walk more than a block.

Comment #16: serious bette  on  07/14  at  11:25 AM

Piggybacking on Aimai’s post, downtown Des Moines built a whole slew of covered elevated walkways between buildings so that people visiting downtown wouldn’t have to brave the cold. Aaaaand thereby ushered in a pretty complete deterioriation of the street-level businesses, which in turn dried up the businesses above them. I hear the situation is improving (I hope so!), but it was a great big helping of Unintended Consequences but one which would be completely foreseeable if anybody had thought to think it through. The whole “Outside is bad! Climate control rules!’ attitude is no way to keep a downtown thriving.

For my ownself, a few years back, during a six-month break between cars, I lived walking distance to work, so that’s what I did.  When coworkers passed me (on a thoroughfare too wide and busy to stop and offer me a ride), they’d catch up to me in the office and express pity (!) for my having to walk. I got so tired of this attitude, I finally switched my response to “Eh, you know, it’s my cardio for the day.” That spurred them to ‘ohhhh, you’re soooo virtuous!’ Nuts.

Comment #17: benvolio  on  07/14  at  11:28 AM

I honestly don’t know if a campaign like this would work in the U.S. unless that particular city already has a really good transit system. Personally, one of the biggest reasons I don’t walk or bike more is time. I only live 2 miles from work, but I know from walking 2 miles for exercise it would take me at least 45 min to get to work. I suppose I’m a slow walker but when I can drive those 2 miles (and drop my daughter at daycare halfway) in 20 min I just can’t fathom walking and either sweating or freezing depending on the time of year.

Acknowledging that makes me feel lazy as hell, but I don’t see myself dedicating an extra an hour just for my commute. I’d rather pick my daughter up earlier and go play or get other shit that needs to be done accomplished.

Comment #18: Livi  on  07/14  at  11:33 AM

Also, of course, my boss figured out one day that, between NYC garage prices, gas prices, insurance, etc., she’s paying signficantly more to commute each day by car than I pay for my monthly Metro North pass + 30 day metrocard (for the record, I spend slightly north of $400/month all in).  A “cheap” garage in NYC will cost you several hundred dollars a month, and insuring a car in NYC is an expensive proposition by itself.  Add to that the fact that it’s a good 40 miles from the city to the office (and everyone drives an SUV), and you’re talking a pretty penny.  My costs also end up including leisure travel, because I just get an unlimited card and then I can use it on nights and weekends as well.

Comment #19: sam  on  07/14  at  11:36 AM

Never stops the fRightwing claims to the contrary.

Heh. Conservatives will fight tooth and nail to keep their cars, right up to the point that market forces make it impossible… at which point they will immediately claim that they were all in favor of walkable communities, bicycling and transit, all along.

(Flora, I lived in a classic 1970’s-era split-level subdivision from age ten to fifteen. It really sucked, because just at the age when I became capable of getting around on my own, I had the choice of staying put in my neighborhood, where there was nothing but other houses, or taking my life in my hands trying to cross a busy four-lane boulevard. It was quite a relief when my family moved into a more traditional, walkable town.)

Comment #20: Medium Dave  on  07/14  at  11:38 AM

Groningen put much effort into becoming the most bicycle-friendly city in a country where bicycles are everywhere.  The population density makes it compact, attractive to pedestrians, and cost effective for public transit.  You Tube has a number of videos showing how great it is to bike here.  In the centre of the city, no personal autos are allowed.  That means:  taxi, bus, or bike.  There is ample car parking on the outskirts served by Park & Ride buses that go downtown.  I said goodbye to North American car culture so quickly it’s a shock to the system when I have to go back to it.  That said, car culture is gaining on us a bit.  Some cities have given in and they look a lot sadder for it.  The pressure is on here too.

Comment #21: Millenium1  on  07/14  at  11:47 AM

You couldn’t pay me enough money to drive in New York City.  I swear it’s the only place I’ve seen 8 lanes of traffic on a 4-lane street.  I’m surprised your family didn’t take one look at midtown traffic and instantly understand your aversion.

I’m fortunate to be able to walk to a grocery store and a decent amount of shopping & restaurants, but the Detroit area is ruled by car culture and suburban sprawl.  Public transit is mostly a joke and will probably remain so despite the brave noises being made about commuter rail.  You might be able to take a bus where you want to go, but it can take hours just to get across town.  Local racism pretty much guarantees that there won’t be a major train line connecting city to suburbs—can’t have ‘those people’ able to get to our neighborhoods so easily, you know.

Though to be fair, it’s hard to talk about redesigning an entire region for mass transit in a state that’s hemorraging money & jobs and has a Republican governor determined to shift the tax burden from business to everyone else.

Comment #22: Sour Kraut  on  07/14  at  11:48 AM

My commute to work actually wastes more time because there are very few amenities on the way home. There’s a grocery store nearby that I can stop at on my way, but no drug stores or post offices. These require additional, separate trips. Over the weekends, I’ve decided to bike it everywhere to run my weekend errands.

I love my car. I like taking fun, long drives, especially with friends. But no one seems to realize that their traffic-logged commutes are the exact opposite of the “freedom” they’re so proud that the car offers.

Comment #23: Tyro  on  07/14  at  12:10 PM

The lack of urban planning in my city (Houston) is what I think deters more people from walking and riding bikes. Public transit is pretty crummy too, very slow to get 8 or 10 miles away. It would be great if a program like this could actually be implemented here, then I think improvements in public transit and bike lanes actually might happen if people were more willing to use these alternatives instead of driving.

Comment #24: anomynous_mouse  on  07/14  at  12:14 PM

“people will act like you came from Mars if you walk more than a block.”

I live in a pretty car-centric (and “car competetive”) suburban area. I’ve always walked to the store unless I’m buying more than I can carry home (it’s about a mile and a half to the store). It’s a nice walk though. Really wide sidewalks w/trees for shade.

Just last night we walked down to the store, got some dinner at a cool little Japanese place and walked back. When we got back, our neighbors were out and asked where we’d been. When we told them, they looked at us like we were crazy.

Comment #25: Mark  on  07/14  at  12:15 PM

This is topical for me in Toronto, as our right-wing mayor just decided to pay to *remove* a bicycle lane down a major street that was put in last year (it will cost twice as much to remove as it was to put in).
This is what happens when a city is amalgamated so that the suburbs are given enough power to vote in someone who will cheat the inner city while pandering to suburbia who can’t/won’t understand the need for good public transit and city services.

Toronto is hopefully the only city moving backwards on car culture.

Comment #26: lijakaca  on  07/14  at  12:21 PM

I used to live in Philadelphia, and the only thing I hated worse than driving was taking public transportation.  Now that I live in the DC area, I take the metro as often as I can.

But in some cities, public transportation just plain sucks.  It can be unreliable, frequently late, stop running after midnight, not run often enough, not have any nearby stops, etc.  So we need a massive country-wide project to make public transportation better and many people will naturally use it more often.  There are two sides to this and leaving public transportation in its current state will always be a hindrance.

There is one thing that I will always use a car for though, and that is weekly grocery shopping.  It’s not a big deal to get myself around a city, but it is a big deal to carry a week’s worth of groceries, especially if they had watermelons on sale that week, and there’s also the issue of frozen foods melting.  When I was in college in Philly, it actually took me less time to drive to nearby suburb once a week than to walk to the city grocery store 2 miles away.  Taking the bus was sort of pointless because I’d have to walk half a mile before and after and only take the bus for one mile, so it actually took longer than walking.  And when it’s 90 degrees, or even 75 degrees, popsicles don’t stand a chance on that long walk home.

Now I live in something that is sort of an urbanized suburb, and it’s actually the best of both worlds.  There is a shopping center right next to my apartment complex and that’s really convenient when I want to just stop in for milk or a few things.  But there’s a big fence between the two property, so I have to go from the back of the shopping center, to the main road, and then to the back of my apartment complex.  In the summer, frozen foods just don’t stand a chance even though it’s probably less than a half a mile, and again, there’s the issue with carrying heavy bags of groceries.

I guess some people go food shopping every day or every other day and just get a little bit at a time, but I like to go once a week and just stop in for milk and bananas every few days.  If I had to live without a car, I guarantee that I would never eat watermelon or other heavy things again.

Comment #27: bananacat  on  07/14  at  12:26 PM

I live just 5 miles from where I work. I’d love to bike it, but I’d have a pretty high chance of being injured or killed doing so. Public transport would take the better part of an hour and require a couple of changes…and the buses only run every 30 minutes.

Comment #28: Jodi  on  07/14  at  12:42 PM

I live in Minneapolis; years ago I went to an event that was being held in the Metrodome, downtown. My husband and I took the bus. It dropped us literally at the front gate. Coming out afterward, we saw people heading out to parking blocks and blocks away for which they had paid $10 or more; the streets around the dome were jammed full of cars as people tried to all go home at once. I figured that surely the bus would be crowded full of people who’d realized they could spend $1.25 instead of $10+ ... but no. It was us and maybe three other people.

I think this is less true after sporting events, though; people who go to the Metrodome (or the new ballpark) regularly have time to work out the advantages of busing it (which also include, “you can get as soused as you’d like with no worries about a DWI.”)

The thing about grocery shopping—in the city, before EVERYONE had a car, there were corner stores within easy walking distance of most residents. Those were killed by car culture; you could drive to the big supermarket for lower prices and a wider selection. So now you HAVE to have a car because yeah, grocery shopping by bus is a huge pain in the ass. (We actually have a really excellent convenience store a block and a half away. There are people in my neighborhood who do all their shopping there and it’s do-able, but results in a diet with very little fresh food. I love being able to buy our milk, eggs, bananas, and miscellaneous mid-week needs there, though.)

Comment #29: Naomi  on  07/14  at  12:48 PM

I just can’t fathom walking and either sweating or freezing depending on the time of year.

This is another issue that is important.  When I was in college, I walked to class (about 3/4 of a mile) and never would have considered driving.  But I could wear whatever I wanted, and it also didn’t matter much if I showed up all sweaty.  I could wear rain boots during the rain, paired with either a skirt or capris so my hems wouldn’t get soaked.  In the summer I would just wear rubber flip-flips in the rain because skin dries off faster than cloth.  When it was really hot, I could wear a tank top and shorts, and when it was really cold I could wear fleece sweatpants, maybe with long johns underneath.  I could wrap my head in scarves and hats and earmuffs and hoods and it didn’t really matter what my hair or make-up looked like when I delayered.  And because most classes were just an hour long, I could wear really warm clothes and I wouldn’t get too hot because I could go back outside between classes to cool off.

If I tried to do any of these for work, I’d have to bring a change of clothes and change in the bathroom, and that’s if I was lucky enough to not get stopped by someone who had Something Important as soon as I stepped in the door.  And then I’d have to change back again to walk home.  And my company even had an extremely relaxed dress code.

Comment #30: bananacat  on  07/14  at  12:51 PM

Comment #29: Naomi, I wonder where many of those people live? Perhaps many of them do not live where public transit goes.

Comment #31: Livi  on  07/14  at  12:54 PM

there were a couple jokes made about how I never liked driving[...]
But the thing is, I do like driving…..long distances at high speeds.

Same thing here.  I have spent a lot of time and effort to reduce my driving, and one of the results is that people often say “I didn’t even know you owned a car” and even my wife says “I know you don’t like to drive.”  But I do! Cars are really useful and for some applications they’re exactly the right tool. I really dig road trips. I like singing along with the radio, something I don’t do when I walk or bike.

As you suggest, the ingrained notion that cars are just more convenient is possibly the biggest obstacle. As I have reprogrammed myself to think of walking/biking as the first option, it’s funny how much I’ve come to think of driving as the real inconvenience.  When you’re in the habit of using lower-impact transportation, and you have your infrastructure all set up (e.g. the bike is in a place where it’s easy to hop on, you have panniers or an easy-to-attach trailer for cargo), the bike (or your feet) is now your first option and it feels like a hassle to do something else.  It’s all training.

Comment #32: Cris (without an H)  on  07/14  at  12:59 PM

I’m a huge fan of walking and biking, but my current job requires a car, so I have one.  Growing up, using a car for everything was just the norm, since I grew up in one of the most car-centric cities in the US (Houston, Texas).  I do see, however, a growing realization in Houston that living in the burbs isn’t ideal.  My parents are planning to retire to a walkable town.  Some of their friends are downsizing their McMansions and moving to urban areas where they can walk places.  But however bad Houston’s traffic is, its public transit is worse.  So that is a limiting factor right there.  Breaking yourself of the car habit is hard. 

One thing that I think might help is to raise the driving age to 18.  This would require teens who want more independence to learn how to get places without cars.  It would mean that their would be fewer drivers on the road.  It would mean the roads are a little safer because 18 year-olds have a bit better judgment than 16 year olds (not a great deal more, but some).  I’m sure this suggestion will outrage someone.  But I think it could help by forcing older teens to learn to navigate the city on foot, by bike and by public transport.  Then they might be more inclined to use it when they are older. 

Comment #33: JoanofArc  on  07/14  at  01:02 PM

Comment #33: JoanofArc, it doesn’t enrage me, but having grown up in a very rural area (our house was on the corner of a potato field) I wonder about the effect on families who don’t live in walkable cities or areas with public transit. For nearly everyone I knew growing up, having the teen (or younger) learn to drive was not only freeing for the kid, but freeing for the parents as well. I know this only applies to a small percent of the population, but it’s something that should be considered if the driving age is raised.

Comment #34: Livi  on  07/14  at  01:09 PM

The nature of my workplace layout is such that I definitely have a 1/4 mile walk from the parking lot to the entrance and then a 5 minute walk from the entrance to my office. Somehow, I manage, even when it’s very cold or very hot.

I have coworkers who live just a few miles away from work and the roads here are so awful and offer so little room for non-drivers that bicycling is dangerous. And that’s not fair and totally unnecessary, especially in the far-out suburbs where space is so cheap and wider lanes or bike lanes could be easily added.

Comment #35: Tyro  on  07/14  at  01:12 PM

@benvolio—to be fair, it can get REALLY cold in those northern Midwestern cities.  Minneapolis has a skywalk network, and during the winter, it is awesome. 

I live in DC and my employer pays for my metro card, so it’s kind of a no-brainer, but as an aging public transport system requires more money to maintain and upgrade, we’re starting to see reduced service and poorer conditions, which make it less attractive to people, which further reduces the fares collected to pay for things, etc.  I no longer own a car, which has made my life generally much less stressful, because parking in my neighborhood is a real PIA.  It does not save time to drive most places if you have to tack on 20 minutes to find a parking spot every time you return home, let alone find parking when you get to your destination.  In cities, I think people are often quicker to switch, not only because of the positives (public transport provides sufficient service) but also the negatives associated not only with car ownership but with driving (traffic, parking, car storage). 

What gets me is when people complain that public transport shouldn’t be subsidized, while automobile routs are subsidized with public money.  To my mind, trains and buses are infrastructure on a par with roads and bridges.  If we invested a greater percentage of public money on public transport, we could have a system that is much more convenient.  I think more (not all) people would use public transportation if it got them where they wanted to go in a timely and affordable manner.  Which would actually make driving more pleasant, as people would only drive if driving was actually the method of transportation that made the most sense for that trip. 

@JoanofArc—driving age aside, it’s only fair to put pressure on people to use public transport if public transport exists and is sufficient to meet their needs.  For some people, if they can’t drive, they can’t get to work, because their workplace is not near the subway or a bus line.  It’s a little chicken-and-egg, but you have to have not only people using the system, but also a system that meets people’s needs.

Comment #36: Kit-Kat  on  07/14  at  01:24 PM

@Jodi:

I’d love to bike it, but I’d have a pretty high chance of being injured or killed doing so.

Can you elaborate? I’m guessing your route to work might cross some major highways or the roads don’t have adequate shoulders.  No doubt there are cities with very bike-unfriendly road design, and that’s pretty hard for an individual to do anything about it.

But your comment made my ears prick up because I see that sort of sentiment thrown out a lot, even when reasonable biking conditions exist.  There’s this common conception that biking can GET! ME! KILLED! but that I’m totally safe and secure inside a car (especially a big car).  I’m not claiming you’re saying this, but the mentality is very prevalent.

Comment #37: Cris (without an H)  on  07/14  at  01:27 PM

I live in the Boston area and own a car. I could get rid of it, but no matter how many times I do the math, I need a car just often enough to need a car. We have Zipcar in the area and I could get some money by renting out my deeded space, but I can’t get the numbers to add up. I take the T to work and weeks might go by without me needing to actually drive anywhere, but then I will need to drive out into the woods for a weekend, and I end up giving other people rides and the numbers go to hell. It’s weeks of low/no car use, interspersed with two hundred mile rounds trips for the weekend. It’s marginally cheaper and more convenient to keep the car, but I can easily imagine just getting rid of it and using other methods to get around.

Comment #38: BunBun vonWhiskers  on  07/14  at  01:35 PM

I’m sure this suggestion will outrage someone.  But I think it could help by forcing older teens to learn to navigate the city on foot, by bike and by public transport.  Then they might be more inclined to use it when they are older.

Not everyone grows up in a city, or even the ‘burbs. Had I or my girlfriend-now-wife not been able to drive at 16, we wouldn’t have been able to date at all: she lived in the small city that didn’t have transit, I lived out in the country. Hell, I needed a vehicle to get from one end of our property to the other in under half an hour. Even not counting my dating, you needed a vehicle to get anywhere to do anything: the closest convenience store was two miles away, and if that was closed (or you needed real groceries they didn’t have) you’re at 15 miles and into town.

Now, that said, if I was living a city with decent public transit, I don’t see the need for a car either (and I’ll even avoid taxis when I’m traveling and don’t have a “Need to get to the meeting in the next five minutes” issue), but when I visit my parents or many other relatives, yeah, pretty much need the vehicle to do anything.

Comment #39: KeithM  on  07/14  at  01:38 PM

@lijakaca Rob Ford is like Nickleback. I don’t know anyone that likes either, but they both seem to do well. Rob Ford is so firmly entrenched in car culture that I’m surprised he didn’t blame missing Pride on being generally opposed to shutting city streets to car traffic. If you went though, there was a dude passing out Rob Ford masks, so that was pretty amazing.

Comment #40: JilliefromChile  on  07/14  at  02:29 PM

In the summer, frozen foods just don’t stand a chance even though it’s probably less than a half a mile, and again, there’s the issue with carrying heavy bags of groceries.

I guess some people go food shopping every day or every other day and just get a little bit at a time, but I like to go once a week and just stop in for milk and bananas every few days.  If I had to live without a car, I guarantee that I would never eat watermelon or other heavy things again.
Comment #27: bananacat on 07/14 at 12:26 PM

Maybe you would.

One of the things you’ll see on a lot of residential city streets is a foldable shopping cart.  Watermelons fit in them just fine.
http://www.stacksandstacks.com/jumbo-shopping-cart-extra-large-folding-grocery-cart?id=175&sku=8454&AID=10273848&PID=1992680

I also have an insulated bag to carry cold food in, and I supplement the coolness with cold packs when it’s hot.  There are even insulated backpacks, which would let you put more in your shopping cart.

I sympathize with not wanting to be a beast of burden every week, but one of the benefits of walking is you get to look around at stuff, stop and stare at a bug or mushroom or non-angry bird.

Comment #41: oldfeminist  on  07/14  at  02:51 PM

The foldable shopping cart or “granny cart” as we call it indefinitely a staple of urban living. I’ve not found much propel with frozen things getting defrosted on the way home, like, ever. At least, not more than it happens in my own car (I have a 20-30 minute drive home from the grocery stores near my workplace).

one of the benefits of walking is you get to look around at stuff, stop and stare at a bug or mushroom or non-angry bird.

This is an awfully silly reason to encourage people to walk. I have no interest now in staring at bugs, birds, or mushrooms. What if someone really doesn’t care? They just want their food. For me, it’s more that driving and parking is a pain and not worth my personal time and energy. That said, I also have access to a corner store. 

This is like people who say how you should only eat food “in season” so you become attuned to “the cycles and rhythms of the year.”

Comment #42: Tyro  on  07/14  at  03:02 PM

I’ve lived without a car in Europe, and it was great.  I would go to the market almost every day on my way back from school; when a city is truly pedestrian-friendly it’s very easy to do that.  Now I live in a place that’s walkable but not pedestrian-friendly, which sucks; I live in the old downtown area, but they built a three-lane state highway right through it in the 70s.

Comment #43: BetsyD  on  07/14  at  03:09 PM

Plating diamonds in gold is about the stupidest thing one could do…next to driving 5 minutes to save 1 minute walking.

Comment #44: winstongator  on  07/14  at  03:15 PM

This is an awfully silly reason to encourage people to walk. I have no interest now in staring at bugs, birds, or mushrooms. What if someone really doesn’t care? They just want their food. For me, it’s more that driving and parking is a pain and not worth my personal time and energy. That said, I also have access to a corner store.

This is like people who say how you should only eat food “in season” so you become attuned to “the cycles and rhythms of the year.”
Comment #42: Tyro on 07/14 at 03:02 PM

Wow, who pissed in your locally ground oat-based cereal?

I just kind of tossed that off.  I don’t expect most people will care and never thought of it as a primary reason for choosing to walk, just a plus of pedestrianism.  Driving involves so much constant focus and attention that it can be nice to do something where you can slow down or be distracted and not worry about killing people or wrecking the car or getting a ticket for speeding.

Comment #45: oldfeminist  on  07/14  at  03:21 PM

I live in a smaller town. While we sort of have public transportation (it stops around six pm), it isn’t much to speak of. There’s little accomodation for biking anywhere and less for walking. People contantly whinge in the local paper about how much of a waste of money the almost-bus system is, and they’re right but not for the.reasons they list. Public transportation as an afterthought never works well. When the cities and towns actually plan public tansportation well, it is designrd the primary mode of travel and personal vehicles are limited in many right-of-ways. Our state also has a significant problem with drunk drivers; I would imagine realistic bus service schedules and routes would only help alleviate this problem.

Comment #46: hugh  on  07/14  at  03:28 PM

Ok, my complaints about city life weren’t meant to suggest that we should just give up all hope of reducing car reliance.  My point is that to reduce car use, we need to drastically deal with many many issues, some of which seems minor and are easily overlooked, but actually vitally important.  We can’t just rely on making driving worse, we need to make other options better too.

Comment #47: bananacat  on  07/14  at  03:44 PM

There’s this common conception that biking can GET! ME! KILLED!

There’s this common sentiment among drivers in many parts of the US that cyclists should be treated like roadside game. The geography can be taken into account; the mentality of drivers can’t. And I say this having cycled exclusively for long periods of time in cities where I had no qualms about its safety.

Comment #48: pseudonymous in nc  on  07/14  at  03:49 PM

my anecdote about living in car culture ~  a few months ago my boss and i had a meeting at a facility about 15 min walk away from our office.  afterwards he had another meeting that i wasn’t needed for; he told me to hang out & wait for him and then ride back in the car.  i asked him if the meeting would run longer then 15 min and he answered “undoubtedly”.  so of course i offered to walk back - i was wearing comfortable shoes and it was not raining (not a given in oregon).

you’d think i’d have offered to trek across the gobi desert, as one poster said above.  he tried to get me to take the car, &c argue argue and then - this cracks me up - i said “oh, please, it will save me a trip to the gym later.”  then suddenly it was all reasonable and okay.

first of all, 15 min walking is not a substitute for 45 min running on an elliptical machine but second of all, why is it reasonable to go to a gym to walk or run on a treadmill, or even reasonable to go for a run outside but walking as a means of transportation is just(!) not(!) done(!)??

Comment #49: trishka  on  07/14  at  04:06 PM

I think the biggest impediment to overcoming car culture is social pressure. I ride a bike, and have at various times been regarded as deeply eccentric or a complete buffoon for choosing to get around in this manner. If you live close enough to your workplace to make biking feasible, you have to deal with your co-workers approaching you with this odd mix of pity and admiration when you arrive sweaty and ruddy-faced. Everyone was always offering to pick me up, especially on really hot or cold days. I’m assuming they were mostly trying to be nice, but it was deeply irritating. Also, I would usually put my bike in an unoccupied cubicle. I arrived early with plenty of time to change into business clothes and apply my makeup in the back bathroom. It’s not like I rolled in in my bike clothes and sat down, all sweaty, in our morning meetings. Still, I remember one time our Area Vice President was visiting. My boss told me I needed to get my bike into the storage room immediately, before the AVP arrived at the office and *saw* it. I was like, it’s a bicycle, not a pile of dung; I’m not sure why we need to hide it from him. Hm.

I also think there’s a lot of social pressure on people who have kids to move to the suburbs and buy big cars. This is framed in our culture as being the choice you make if you love your kids. That’s where the good schools are, everyone says. Or people always explain why they have a big SUV to me thusly: I have kids, so…. like that explains it. If you’re a young person thinking about starting a family and if you live in a big urban area, what happens is your co-workers and friends start telling you how dangerous a place it is to raise kids all the time. A lot of has have really started to believe that it’s unacceptable to raise your kids in a house smaller than 1600 square feet. Or for kids to share rooms! So they move into these huge houses way on the outskirts of the city and they drive everywhere. The neighborhoods are sometimes three miles or more away from any grocery store or restaurant. The kids never walk anywhere and the only place they ever hang out is in each other’s rooms. Suburbia! It is a horrifying place. These days, people don’t even let their kids ride their bikes anywhere. I remember occasionally taking the bus someplace when I was ten or eleven, but I have never seen a kid alone on the bus or the train, ever.

Anyway, I don’t think that car culture will start to erode until we, as a culture, stop deriding other modes of transportation. Many people see cycling as a very silly, childish thing to do. They really think you need to grow up and just buy a car already! And if you have kids and don’t have a car, and you teach your kids how to ride the bus or the train or their bike short distances, people will probably all point to that horrible story of the boy who was murdered in Brooklyn like that is literally something that happens every day in every neighborhood in every city in America and you are pretty much guaranteeing that your kid befall a similar fate if you have him take a 1.7 mile bus ride to his friend’s house.

Comment #50: Jenny Dreadful  on  07/14  at  04:09 PM

I get pissy when sidewalks take a longer route to get from point A to point B than the road does.  I don’t mind a little meander side to side, and I realize that sometimes you need to go around intersections.  But the paths that literally go the long way around pointless walls separating pieces of sidewalk piss me off to no end.

Comment #51: Crissa  on  07/14  at  04:09 PM

Comment #17: benvolio on 07/14 at 11:28 AM

Piggybacking on Aimai’s post, downtown Des Moines built a whole slew of covered elevated walkways between buildings so that people visiting downtown wouldn’t have to brave the cold. Aaaaand thereby ushered in a pretty complete deterioriation of the street-level businesses, which in turn dried up the businesses above them. I hear the situation is improving (I hope so!), but it was a great big helping of Unintended Consequences but one which would be completely foreseeable if anybody had thought to think it through. The whole “Outside is bad! Climate control rules!’ attitude is no way to keep a downtown thriving.

Well, as one point in contrast, the Montreal Underground City actually does pretty well in this regard.

 

Comment #19: sam on 07/14 at 11:36 AM

Also, of course, my boss figured out one day that, between NYC garage prices, gas prices, insurance, etc., she’s paying signficantly more to commute each day by car than I pay for my monthly Metro North pass + 30 day metrocard (for the record, I spend slightly north of $400/month all in).  A “cheap” garage in NYC will cost you several hundred dollars a month, and insuring a car in NYC is an expensive proposition by itself.  Add to that the fact that it’s a good 40 miles from the city to the office (and everyone drives an SUV), and you’re talking a pretty penny.  My costs also end up including leisure travel, because I just get an unlimited card and then I can use it on nights and weekends as well.

I’m annoyed by the fact that I have the opposite situation out here in the San Francisco Peninsula.  I literally live one block away from a Caltrain station and 6 miles from work, yet when I do the math, it turns out that taking the train to work is only cheaper than driving if you don’t have a car: train pass + car insurance is roughly the same as gas + car insurance, except that the car takes me straight to work at whatever hour I want, while the train leaves me a mile away from work and then I have to take a shuttle that only runs limited hours and has to stop at a bunch of different employers.

Comment #52: sacundim  on  07/14  at  04:14 PM

Where I grew up had no sidewalks, so choosing to walk in the road where I was visible or through people’s yard is a no-brainer.  When people block walking paths ‘for security’ or put up pointless fences that wouldn’t stop a small dog, it annoys me.  I have no problem walking in front of a car when I have the right of way - although I’m no longer as good at remembering license plates when I do that, I wasn’t ever very good, but… - nor cutting through or defacing ‘no trespassing’ signs.

Pedestrians have the right of way.

PS, if I can’t walk into your apartment complex and knock on your door (or press a button to summon you) I will turn around and leave.

The number of locked and fenced roads and condo complexes here in the Bay Area has skyrocketed, and I’m not sure what to do about it.  The nearest park is 300m south of me, but there is literally no way to get to it that isn’t five miles long.  No fooling!  It’s the back side of our neighborhood, but no longer has any roads that aren’t fenced leading into it.  The next closest is about a mile, and I can nearly walk straight to it.

Comment #53: Crissa  on  07/14  at  04:17 PM

I look back at when I used to live in Tempe AZ (a suburb of Phoenix) and actually drove my car to the convenience store just a block away down the road from the entrance to my apartment complex. Since I’ve lived in major cities for about 20 years now, I can’t imagine doing that.
When you’re in circumstances where you take your car everywhere, you really take your car everywhere.

first of all, 15 min walking is not a substitute for 45 min running on an elliptical machine but second of all, why is it reasonable to go to a gym to walk or run on a treadmill, or even reasonable to go for a run outside but walking as a means of transportation is just(!) not(!) done(!)??

Comment #49: trishka on 07/14

In San Francisco and I could never figure out why all these people are signed up with 24-Hour Fitness and Crunch when there are all these perfectly good hills to climb.

Comment #54: snobographer  on  07/14  at  04:21 PM

sacundim @ 52:  Not to mention they bought new trains with fewer bicycle racks and seats than the old trains.  Sure, they save gas and go 10% faster, but they hold 8 bicycles instead of 32!  Who thought that was a good idea?

And there’s no way to buy a pass that includes CalTrain and the destination transit system; they all still use different passes (although now most of them use swipe cards, so maybe they’ll eventually get around to allowing one to work on another system).  There are six transit agencies on the SF Peninsula alone: SCMetro, VTA, CalTrain, SamTrans, BART, and MUNI.  And that’s not counting the other half dozen who merely end point on it!  Or the other half dozen across the bridges that don’t.  We have three heavy rails (maybe four if you count Capitol and the other operated on the same line as different), four streetcar/light rail systems, the cable cars people used to use (but you can no longer share passes between it and MUNI, and they’re always packed anyhow), and dozens of bus lines systems and two or three ferries that still operate.

And nearly all of them cost more to use than car+insurance+parking+gas.  Nevermind you already need that if you want to transporting anything that’s a pet or larger than a bookbag, see complaint about bicycles on CalTrain above.

Comment #55: Crissa  on  07/14  at  04:29 PM

When our car was kaputs, we’d go to Costco every other week and take a cab home.  I don’t know why anyone would shop every day if they didn’t have to.

Comment #56: Crissa  on  07/14  at  04:34 PM

@50, a lot of people have SUVs “for the kids” not so much because of safety but because an SUV can fit more than one car seat in the back seat.  The same is true for a minivan, of course, but a lot of people don’t like minivans.

Comment #57: BetsyD  on  07/14  at  04:35 PM

You can fit more than one car seat in the back of a two-door civic.  Why would you need a minivan to do that?

Comment #58: Crissa  on  07/14  at  04:45 PM

I don’t want a minivan, but we’re going to have to make it our next family car to make room for a wheelchair in addition to a carseat.  We’re carefully looking for the smallest possible one (RAV4 probably).  I have no idea why anyone who didn’t need to haul equipment would prefer a larger car.

Comment #59: Eileen  on  07/14  at  05:04 PM

If I had to live without a car, I guarantee that I would never eat watermelon or other heavy things again.

This is what I thought, but after several sans-car years I have gotten over the internal resistance (others may have good external/health/safety reasons, but I didn’t) and regularly eat watermelon, purchase cat litter, and drink milk. It takes some extra advance planning, but in the end it works, and I have these brand-new Michelle Obama arms to boot. grin YMMV, of course.

In San Francisco and I could never figure out why all these people are signed up with 24-Hour Fitness and Crunch when there are all these perfectly good hills to climb.

Not in SF but I can attest that at my gym there are never a) strollers blocking the path, b) dogs on hard-to-see extender leashes, c) rain or other slippery wetnesses, or d) sidewalk harassers to comment on my fat ass.

Comment #60: Well, what?  on  07/14  at  05:28 PM

I also think there’s a lot of social pressure on people who have kids to move to the suburbs and buy big cars. This is framed in our culture as being the choice you make if you love your kids. That’s where the good schools are, everyone says. Or people always explain why they have a big SUV to me thusly: I have kids, so…. like that explains it. If you’re a young person thinking about starting a family and if you live in a big urban area, what happens is your co-workers and friends start telling you how dangerous a place it is to raise kids all the time. A lot of has have really started to believe that it’s unacceptable to raise your kids in a house smaller than 1600 square feet. Or for kids to share rooms!

I have kids.  I live in a medium sized city, but not really close to downtown.  But, my neighborhood is really walkable—I walk to work, my kids walk to school, and we have a couple of small neighborhood grocery stores, a public library, two coffeeshops, and a few restaurants within an easy 20 minute walk of my house.  And when I do drive, my car is a Prius that I have to fill up maybe once every 4-6 weeks (most of the actual driving that we do is for big trips to the store, about once a week, and weekend roadtrips every month or so).  And I can fit two car seats and my mother in law in my back seat with no problem at all.  Also, my house is about 1500 square feet with one bathroom and my two kids share a room. 

Really, the only time I don’t like to walk is in winter, because it is cold here in the winter and I don’t do well with cold.  I still do it, because it just doesn’t make sense to drive the 4 blocks to work, even with a foot of snow on the ground, but I don’t like it.  However, if I have to get somewhere that I can’t easily walk to, then I have to drive because public transit in my city is pretty awful.

Comment #61: ks  on  07/14  at  05:35 PM

If I had to live without a car, I guarantee that I would never eat watermelon or other heavy things again.

Also, you know, in most urban areas where people don’t drive, they’ve invented this magical thing that involves someone conveniently delivering all of your groceries to your door.  Can be arranged at point of purchase OR through entirely web based services like FreshDirect or PeaPod.

Comment #62: sam  on  07/14  at  05:39 PM

ME:
I’d love to bike it, but I’d have a pretty high chance of being injured or killed doing so.

Cris with out an H:
Can you elaborate? I’m guessing your route to work might cross some major highways or the roads don’t have adequate shoulders.  No doubt there are cities with very bike-unfriendly road design, and that’s pretty hard for an individual to do anything about it.

But your comment made my ears prick up because I see that sort of sentiment thrown out a lot, even when reasonable biking conditions exist.  There’s this common conception that biking can GET! ME! KILLED! but that I’m totally safe and secure inside a car (especially a big car).  I’m not claiming you’re saying this, but the mentality is very prevalent.

Me: There’s a bike lane for a total of 6 blocks of the 5 miles, plus I’d have to get across a major highway, and all the options for getting across it (either over or under) funnel two to four lanes very narrowly without even a shoulder (and of course no sidewalk or pedestrian access). There are few sidewalks and drivers here are notoriously unfriendly and unwilling to share the road…to the extent of screaming obscenities even when there’s not much traffic.

Comment #63: Jodi  on  07/14  at  05:42 PM

Crissa, it’s a lot easier on your back to get kids out of a car that sits up higher, especially as they get older and heavier. That’s why SUVs and minivans are cars of choice if you have to haul kids…at minimum, a 4 door car if you have any issues with your back at all. Trying to crawl in and out of the back seat of a two-door car every day, twice a day, with a heavy toddler is excruciating.

Comment #64: Jodi  on  07/14  at  05:49 PM

Trying to crawl in and out of the back seat of a two-door car every day, twice a day, with a heavy toddler is excruciating.

This is the current situation in my family, and luckily I’m not the primary caretaker.  I’m the carefree soul who gets to walk to work, and my husband gets to pay for our decision, eleven years ago, to buy a two-door car rather than a four-door.

Comment #65: Eileen  on  07/14  at  05:55 PM

One solution, which may not have been raised in the thread, is the ability for many white collar workers, including some professionals, to telecommute.  My boss lives two time zones away, I see him about four times a year, but we communicate daily.  I am able to telecommute several days a week, and I generally do once a week—it saves $8 on gas and lots of wear and tear on my little toaster car and my body.  The main reason I go into the office anymore is for social interaction.  Employers love telecommuters, because it amounts to their outsourcing their office space needs, including utilities, to their own employees.

Comment #66: Iam138  on  07/14  at  06:03 PM

I guess we need to add the “all-or-nothing” mentality to the list of obstacles. Because I can’t speak for anybody else, but I’m not saying “live without a car.” I’m saying “reduce your car usage.”  Driving a car once a month for your massive grocery trip is appropriate use of the technology.  It’s driving it when you don’t need it that contributes to the problem.

Saying “I want to buy watermelons occasionally, therefore I have to drive everywhere I go” isn’t that different from saying “Michelle Obama ate ribs once, so why bother eating vegetables.”

Comment #67: Cris (without an H)  on  07/14  at  06:57 PM

Also, you know, in most urban areas where people don’t drive, they’ve invented this magical thing that involves someone conveniently delivering all of your groceries to your door.  Can be arranged at point of purchase OR through entirely web based services like FreshDirect or PeaPod.

By golly, I never even thought of that!

Oh wait, I did.  And where I lived, there was a minimum order amount that I could rarely meet because I’m single and rarely eat expensive things like meat, and there was also a delivery fee that was often nearly as much as my order.  If I lived in a city and made $70k a year I’d probably do it, but as a poor college student I just couldn’t afford the delivery fee OR buying more food than I need just to meet the minimum requirement.

Comment #68: bananacat  on  07/14  at  08:41 PM

Saying “I want to buy watermelons occasionally, therefore I have to drive everywhere I go”

I didn’t say that AND I don’t drive everywhere I go.  Geez, get over yourself and learn to read.  The article specifically mentioned that people in a certain city got lifetime transit passes for getting rid of their cars completely.  And I’m saying that it would be really difficult for me to give up a car completely because of a lot of factors.  And I’m also saying that those factors need to be dealt with to make cities more friendly for non-car users.

Comment #69: bananacat  on  07/14  at  08:44 PM

In San Francisco and I could never figure out why all these people are signed up with 24-Hour Fitness and Crunch when there are all these perfectly good hills to climb.

Weight machines and low-impact aerobic machines for people with painful knees or feet.  Oh, and trainers and possibly free childcare.  And even though nature is supposed to just be so beautiful and interesting, some people get bored with it occasionally and like to have a tv.

Comment #70: bananacat  on  07/14  at  08:47 PM

I’m in Seattle area and i really wish we had better public transit. If you work in downtown Seattle or Microsoft the buses are ok. When I worked in downtown I always took the bus. But if you work anywhere else, the buses are useless. I would prefer the bus, because then I could read while sitting traffic (no bus lanes on 520 here so the bus goes through the same traffic as everyone else). But the bus takes an additional HOUR. That’s 2 hours each day. The bus costs $1 less a day than I pay in gas, and since I’m not downtown, there’s parking available easy. I don’t have a bus stop within walking distance of my house so I still need the car to get to the park and ride. But for 2 hours of additional commuting time, well time IS money - even if I only made minimum wage this is a huge loss. I honestly just can’t afford it.

Comment #71: slingshot  on  07/15  at  01:09 AM

bananacat, out of curiosity, where do you live?

Comment #72: XtinaS  on  07/15  at  01:23 AM

Livi @34
my spouse grow up on a dairy farm outside of a tiny town in the middle of nowhere in SW ID.  And that tiny town was the big town for even smaller ones scattered northwest through east.  The nearest city was Boise.  Having the daily driving age be 14 was great for the rural kids, and most of them had been driving farm trucks a couple of years before that.  It was greater, as you said, for the parents. 
The recent nation wide trend of raising the driving age has been fine for people who live in cities with public transit and small towns where you can walk everywhere within an hour or for families with a stay at home parent.  For everyone else, no, it is a burden on both parents and kids to have to wait an additional 4 to 6 years.

Comment #73: helen w. h.  on  07/15  at  08:41 AM

I know what you mean about people circling parking lots—it used to amuse me, in a tragic sort of way—to see people doing it at the gym where my dad worked out.  God forbid they walk an extra 50 feet on their way to exercise.

My wife and I lived in London for about 5 months in 2009.  Despite the occasional problem, we loved the public transport.  There was almost no place we wanted to go that was more than a ten-minute walk from a tube station, and every place else was accessible by bus.  The monthly transport card wasn’t cheap, but it cost considerably less than owning and maintaining a car.  Not to mention that London is essentially a couple of dozen medieval villages that grew together over time, and that they pretty much kept all the original street layouts, so you’d have an easier time learning your away around a 100-acre rabbit warren than figuring out how to get from Point A to Point B in London (and of course for Americans, learning to drive on the left).  In most neighborhoods you can do your shopping and attend to other day-to-day needs easily without a car.  We loved not having to deal with a car.

One thing I never figured out.  We had friends who lived close to the same underground line we did.  They could have walked 3 minutes from their house to the local tube stop, gotten on a train and, without even having to transfer, gotten off a minute’s walk from our house.  And I mean literally a minute’s walk—we were that close to the station.  But every time they came down they drove.  It took them WAY longer than the tube would have, and cost them gas money (gas is very expensive there), plus a small, but non-zero, amount of wear and tear on the car, added to the pollution, etc.  I think every time they came they called to say they were stuck in traffic and would be late.  Obviously when we went to visit them, we took the underground.  We got to sit in reasonable comfort and read or converse on the journey, and were always on time.

Comment #74: MTS  on  07/15  at  09:17 AM

@Crissa #55: The new Clipper cards work on CalTrain, SamTrans, BART and Muni, which covers everywhere I go with any regularity, along with ACTransit, VTA, and the Golden Gate ferries. I don’t have a public transit option to get to work (if I catch the earliest possible bus-train-bus-bus combo, I have the choice of then leaving work either six or eleven hours later, and unless gas prices top $8 it’s still cheaper for me to drive) but I use it to get around on weekends and to get to midweek shows in the City.

Comment #75: Bex  on  07/15  at  10:20 AM

I’ve found that the difference between living with a car and living without is often just mental attitude.  When I moved out of central London to the outskirts of London, everyone assumed that this meant I would now be getting a car.  Nope.  I’m not on the tube anymore, but there are still plenty of buses and trains, and I plan my life accordingly. 

Ditto having a child.  I don’t think twice about jumping on a train to wherever with my daughter, and the idea of long car journeys makes me shudder.  But some of the journeys we do simply wouldn’t occur to some of the people I know with cars.

Now we’re moving out of London to another UK city, again people presume this must automatically mean that we’ll be getting a car.  Nope, not yet.  We have deliberately accounted in our move for walking, buses, trains and non-car commuting.  Now, we are in a privileged position to be able to do that, the public transport situation isn’t bad where we’re going, and it is possible that with child in tow we might eventually crave the flexibility of car ownership, but it has been striking to me how many assumptions car-owning people make about travel possibilities, simply because it doesn’t occur to them that there are alternatives.

Comment #76: Katherine  on  07/15  at  11:11 AM

I guess some people go food shopping every day or every other day and just get a little bit at a time, but I like to go once a week and just stop in for milk and bananas every few days.  If I had to live without a car, I guarantee that I would never eat watermelon or other heavy things again.

I take it then that supermarkets do not deliver where you are?  I only ask because in the last five-ten years supermarket delivery services have really taken off in the UK.  Not every chain does it, but most do, so I pay an extra £3-5 for delivery (depending on time and day of the week) to order everything online and have it all delivered.  Hourly slots, and evening and weekends and everything, in case people thinks this means having to be a housewife or something.  I guess distance might be an issue in some parts, but anywhere urban or semi-urban should be good to go.

Comment #77: Katherine  on  07/15  at  11:17 AM

Doh, sorry!  I can see that conversation already happened!

Comment #78: Katherine  on  07/15  at  11:22 AM

when there are all these perfectly good hills to climb.

I think you overlooked the 24-hours part.

While there are many areas of SF that would be worth walking around in the wee hours with a loved one and a full moon overhead, the mundane reality is that the bartender who gets off @ 2:00 AM in the SOMA bar you love needs a place to workout before he goes home to bed.

Even walking after dark, you have to bundle up a little bit, especially in the summertime. 

In San Francisco, hills climb you!

Seriously, with the excellent transit system there, you don’t have to climb the hills, but you can participate in what you might call the Tour de Force:

Many cyclists in San Francisco go out of their way to avoid the city’s famous hills. Daniel Reider, 53, goes out of his way to ride them.

Reider invites cyclists to join him July 23 at the annual Seven Hells of San Francisco ride.

“It’s not for beginners,” Reider says. “In spite of it being a hard ride, this is the fourth year I’ve done this, and each year the group doubles in size.”

The Seven Hells ride began when a handful of Reider’s friends wanted to try a few hills with him. A bike commuter for 15 years, Reider knows the city’s hills well. While some people hit the hills for weekend fitness and training, Reider takes them on the way to work.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/13/NSAR1K730B.DTL#ixzz1SC0P861r

Helen w. h., our town has grown to about 50,000 in population from 9,000 50 years ago, and we have a well-used public bus system that gets people where they need to go and covers the area pretty well.

We have bike lanes for the kids and everyone else who has to ride because they can’t afford a car,  and we used to have a dial-a-ride system but with the price of gas and the buses I don’t know if it is still going these days.

Comment #79: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  07/15  at  12:51 PM

I actually do go food shopping most days (not EVERY day) during my work lunch hour, and I actually enjoy it. Then again I work near Chinatown and lurve the Asian groceries. Actually more or less since I moved to the city, I have done my shopping during my lunch break, be it for clothes or food or whatever. It’s usually a little walk, too, so exercise bonus! Whee. I like shopping this way because I can see some ingredient and have a sudden inspiration for cooking, and also because I eat a lot of produce, so bulk shopping doesn’t always work for such things.

Solution for melting frozen food: put in freezer. Freeze back up. Drop on floor. Separate pieces again! I admit some things make it better than others through the freeze-thaw-refreeze cycle, though.

Comment #80: twg_  on  07/15  at  02:19 PM

Can be arranged at point of purchase OR through entirely web based services like FreshDirect or PeaPod.

In addition to buying enough to make the delivery cost worthwhile is that IME they both tend to charge higher prices for various grocery items than what I’d pay in the supermarkets in my area.  They also tend to not stock many items I’d want. 

Though I am fortunate now to live in an area where supermarkets and Asian grocery stores are within easy walking/public transit distance, that was not always the case.  I’ve lived in small towns and cities where one needed a car to feasibly get to the nearest supermarket due to practically non-existent public transit options and/or safety concerns (i.e. Townies resentful of college students…especially those who were non-White, GBLT, etc). 

Even when I was living in the Boston area, my apartment was about a 15 minute walk in opposite directions to two different supermarkets with only one being open 24/7.  Though I personally had no problems hauling a sizable haul of groceries over such distances on foot, not everyone has the good heath and/or time to do so.

Comment #81: exholt  on  07/16  at  01:46 PM

Exholt, having a utility trailer really helps with the hauling, especially via bike.  I used our old baby trailer like this before we finally sold it for hauling small children again.  You can get non-kid ones from most manufacturers, and I’ve even seen cheapo ones at big box stores now.  You can even get some of them with stroller like handles for ped use - even if they aren’t strollers.

Comment #82: Ms Kate  on  07/16  at  03:12 PM

One thing that I noticed about Portland, OR, having spent so much time there of late: having a car is more enjoyable because you don’t have to have a car.  Sure, it is convenient for some trips, but the shear fact that people rely on bikes and transit so much means that there is less congestion and more parking for those who need (due to disability) or want to drive.  I’d think the reichwing could get on board with the idea that driving is an expensive privilege or indulgence ...

Comment #83: Ms Kate  on  07/16  at  03:18 PM

Looking at the comments, one big problem is that cars are a sunk cost. Unless you have a reasonably-priced carsharing system, having access to a car means spending several grand a year for payments (finance or lease), another several grand for insurance and maintenance, with the only nonfixed cost (gas) way down on the list. So if you have one it makes sense to use it as much as possible. Which is exactly the wrong set of incentives.

Of course, I should talk—we live in a small, nominally walkable town except for that hundred yards of vertical relief between us and the stores.

Comment #84: paul  on  07/17  at  01:55 PM
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