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Next entry: NC Congressman: military vets ‘religiously disenfranchised’ in chapel Previous entry: Kristol needs to lay off the crack pipe; more Jindal hilarity

Teenage succubi taking birth control because they want to get pregnant

One of the worst problems in American politics is that once a wingnut myth takes off, it never dies, no matter how much evidence you can marshal against it.  There are people who will go to their graves believing that there was a good reason to think that Saddam Hussein was hiding WMDs as part of his plot to re-blow-up the World Trade Center after he personally crashed a plane into it the first time.  Or, as a less hyperbolic but still baffling example, my dentist told me a couple of weeks ago that she still, in the year 2008, has to talk down patients who are in a full blown panic about fluoridated drinking water. 

Which is why the second I heard the words “pregnancy pact” on the TV, I realized two things at once: a) there was no fucking way and b) no matter how much evidence you marshaled to prove that there was no fucking way, wingnuts would believe that gangs of teenage girls are roaming the countryside, sucking up sperm from hapless men with their succubi cunts of doom in order to get their hands on that diamond-jewelry-buying welfare cash.  The fact that the movie “Juno” was blamed was just an added bonus, and evidence that teaching women such as screenwriter Diablo Cody to read and write was the first step on the road to teenage sluttitude hell. 

Well, here’s the no fucking way part: Turns out the principal, in his desperation to prove the nay-sayers that suggest that making contraception available to teenagers might help them contracept, made up the pregnancy pact.  His main source was, contrary to his initial claims, not the school nurses’ office, but the gossip in the school hallways, which as we all recall has an accuracy rate nearing utter perfection. 

Okay, so school gossip isn’t accurate, but my grasp on what legends will never die seems to be hitting it out of the park—-after recovering slightly from being proven fools once again, the Wingnutteria is coming back with, “So what if the pregnancy pact wasn’t true?  Let’s believe it is anyway, because it’s politically useful for denying girls access to contraception.”  “Fuck reality, we’ll believe what we want to!” has been working for a long time with wingnuts, on everything from the War on Terra to global warming, so there’s no reason for them not to resort to that tactic here. 

Moloney starts off by breathlessly recounting stories of succubi teenagers, before hastily admitting and then dismissing the fact that the entire premise of his outraged article (the pregnancy pact) is bullshit. 

Local news reports have questioned Time’s characterization of the situation, but nobody is denying that these girls knew how to avoid getting pregnant and instead chose otherwise. To young girls who see teenage pregnancy as something desirable, making a pact like this is not unimaginable.

Er.  Yeah. “There wasn’t a pact exactly, but there might as well have been, and come on, it sounds right so let’s believe it anyway.” 

The entire column is based on a strange premise—-that all teenage girls are one teenage girl with one singular motivation, which is roaming the countryside sucking up sperm in order to get pregnant.  That all teenage girls at all points in time are eager to have babies right now.  At best, for wingnut fear-mongering pieces at least, some of the girls were happy about their pregnancies.  But to dimiss completely out of hand the idea that some of them were accidents?  And of course, Moloney’s not even remotely interested in examining why teenage girls might think having a baby is a good idea.  The important thing is that even if they’re taking birth control pills, that wouldn’t work, because teenage girls are singularly eager to have babies.

Local health officials in Gloucester, however, seem to have been completely oblivious to the aspirations of these girls. Gloucester High offers pregnancy tests and other reproductive health services through its school-based health clinic. At least some of the girls clearly were happy to be pregnant — slapping high fives when they heard the news — which suggests they weren’t trying to avoid conception. Yet the nurse who runs the clinic and the clinic’s medical director reacted by calling for greater access to birth control, even if the parents of the girls didn’t approve:

So here’s the question: If no teenage girls in the school will use the birth control because of their succubi-like nature, then what’s the harm in making it available?  By Moloney’s measure, it’s going to just sit on the shelf unused.  So why not indulge the health officials in their supposed fantasy?  Is Moloney worried about the inches of storage space lost to house the pills and condoms that would languish unused?  I suspect not.  I suspect the real thing he fears is that girls would use the contraception made available to them, and thereby end up proving that taking birth control is actually effective against getting pregnant, even in teenage succubi. 

This view [that contraception access reduces the pregnancy rate] is unproven, but it has been the foundation of U.S. family planning policy since 1972. And the push to expand school-based health clinics is part of a movement to increase the availability of birth control to minors without their parents’ knowledge or consent.

Now he’s stone cold lying.  It’s proven in the U.S. and proven in other countries—-the easier it is to get and use contraception, the lower the teenage pregnancy rate.

Eighty-six percent of the recent decline in U.S. teen pregnancy rates is the result of improved contraceptive use, while a small proportion of the decline (14%) can be attributed to teens waiting longer to start having sex, according to “Explaining Recent Declines in Adolescent Pregnancy in the United States: The Contribution of Abstinence and Improved Contraceptive Use” by John Santelli et al., published in the January issue of the American Journal of Public Health.

In fact, it’s this knowledge that’s the big issue.  Students at Gloucester have lower than average access to contraception, which is why two school health officials resigned in protest when told that they couldn’t improve the situation.  After the resignations brought media attention to this, the principal tried to save face by blaming the teenage pregnancy rate on the devious machinations of out-of-control teenage succubi.  Will making contraception available prevent every single teenage pregnancy?  No one is saying that.  Will it prevent some?  Well, common sense, and that 86% figure cited above would say yes.  But Moloney outright denies that there’s any kind of link between contraception and not getting pregnant.

These young girls know how to have babies, so further sex ed isn’t needed. They want to have babies, so contraception is beside the point.

Teenage girls nowadays know what cocks are and how to use them.  Dangerous stuff.

No, seriously.  100% of teenage pregnancies are deliberate?  Really?  You really think so?  I wonder where abortion fits into the story he’s telling himself, because it does happen, and teenagers are a huge percentage of the women who seek abortion.  If teenage girls who have babies are welfare-loving succubi, then are teenage girls who have abortions just rebels who like to get pregnant and then abort to double up the emasculation of the men of America?  Or is it possible that there is a lot of accidental pregnancy amongst teenagers?  I’d offer, too, that making sex ed and contraception more widely available would cut down on the girls who are more deliberate about getting pregnant.  What percentage of girls that seek to become mothers at a young age often do so because they feel unloved and adrift.  Telling them that someone cares about them and their health enough to reach out in this way could help set them on a different path. 

But the idea that it was so easy for teenagers to get contraception in Gloucester and just avoided it because teenagers are succubi is disproven even in the original Time article that was otherwise playing up every wingnut trope imaginable. 

Currently Gloucester teens must travel about 20 miles (30 km) to reach the nearest women’s health clinic; younger girls have to get a ride or take the train and walk.

If they even know where it is, which I doubt if it’s in a town 20 miles away. That maybe doesn’t sound so far to people who own cars and have licenses, but as someone who lived in a small town as a teenager, I can assure you that going to an entirely different town to use a clinic that you may not even know exists is a daunting task at that age. 

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 12:23 PM • (57) Comments

The girls know how babies get made, so if they get pregnant, they wanted the baby?

I wonder how much Moloney wants that argument applied to the men involved? After all, babies don’t happen in a vacuum. Boys know how babies get made (assuming we have accurate sex ed in these schools, which I doubt), so if the girl gets pregnant, the boy wanted the baby. Voila, chid-support payments….

Comment #1: Faye  on  07/01  at  01:11 PM

teenage succubi

I think someone should make a horror film called Attack of the Teenage Succubi.

Comment #2: Skwee  on  07/01  at  01:19 PM

This is, of course, what one would call the “Chewbaca Defense”.  That is a pretty excellent example of on in the real world.

And you know, I bet in different circumstances, he’d be glad that all those teens are getting pregnant and having more kids to further “The Snowflake Agenda”.

No?

Uh, perchance those “succubbi” aren’t white, are they?

Comment #3: shah8  on  07/01  at  01:23 PM

Uh, never mind, the girls apparently were mostly irish catholics?

Comment #4: shah8  on  07/01  at  01:29 PM

“If contraception is available, then only the available will use contraception!”

No, that won’t work.

“They can take these pills from my pretty, lip-glossed mouth!”

Nope.

You know, it’s hard to come up with propaganda stupid enough to counteract the stupid side’s idiotic notions.  We’re doomed.

Comment #5: jon  on  07/01  at  01:40 PM

OK, the pregnancy pact is bogus, but that leaves the question of why did the pregnancy rate quadruple in a year? The nearest health clinic was 20 miles away in previous years; it didn’t just move away suddenly. So why was this year different?

Did the sex-ed classes change? Did the availability of contraception change? Did they suddenly start pushing abstinence-only sex-ed? Were they all virgins visited by an angel of God? Is it because they saw a pregnant teenager in Juno and, never having thought of it before, decided it looked fun to try?

If I’m missing something in the articles, please point it out. Teenage pregnancy is not usually a good idea, so if there’s something they should be doing in Gloucester to encourage avoiding it, I’d like to see them start doing it, pronto.

Comment #6: zadig  on  07/01  at  02:16 PM

  Currently Gloucester teens must travel about 20 miles (30 km) to reach the nearest women’s health clinic; younger girls have to get a ride or take the train and walk.

If they even know where it is, which I doubt if it’s in a town 20 miles away. That maybe doesn’t sound so far to people who own cars and have licenses, but as someone who lived in a small town as a teenager, I can assure you that going to an entirely different town to use a clinic that you may not even know exists is a daunting task at that age.

They probably don’t know it exists. The may only know about Planned Parenthood, the nearest one being even further away in Boston which is about an hour plus train ride.

Comment #7: Juan Stoppable  on  07/01  at  02:21 PM

Zadig, I think part of the “quadruple” jump is that we are dealing with very small numbers. Any increase is going to be a significant one.

I think it’s entirely possible that these girls all knew that the others were sexually active. They were probably friends and friends will share that sort of thing. When they became pregnant, it sounds like they tried to make the bst of it - high-fiving rather than sackcloth and ashes, and that pisses off the men for whom pregnancy is supposed to be some kind of punishment, thus the “pact”.

If pregnancy is not desireable in teens - and I think we can all agree that it isn’t - why are these people opposed to proper sex-ed and available contraception? Maybe the sex-ed might, just might, change the succubis’ minds….

Comment #8: Faye  on  07/01  at  02:24 PM

“Teenage succubi taking BIRTH CONTROL because they WANT to get pregnant?!?”

Can’t be very smart succubi.

Can succubi be Republicans?

Comment #9: Cathexis  on  07/01  at  02:24 PM

I just took a quick look at the map—20 miles away from Gloucester is a long damn way, both in terms of transit and in terms of social strata. Unless there were huge posters all over school with the address of the clinic and bus schedules for how to get there, it might as well be on the moon.

Comment #10: paul  on  07/01  at  02:37 PM

You know, I’m kind of sad the pregnancy pact turned out to be bullshit.

Because I really liked the idea of a group of girls who, rather than slut-shaming each other, were actively saying “We want to be moms, and we know it’s going to be hard, and we know we can’t trust teenage boys to do a goddamn thing to help and we can trust adult men even less, so we’re going to be sisters. We’re gonna back each other up, babysit each other’s kids, pool our resources and hang together so we can all be moms with a minimum of heartache, because god knows there’s no college and no great rich guy who’ll sweep us off our feet waiting in our futures, so we may as well be moms now while we’re young and healthy, and we’ll work together to make that happen.”

Doesn’t that make the baby-minded among us all just want to go out and find a gang of seven gal pals and make a pregnancy pact with *them?*

Seriously, if the pregnancy pact was real, I suspect the biggest problem wingnuts really have with it is that pregnancy and babies are supposed to be something women go through and produce for the benefit of men. It gives them the vapors every time you suggest that men might be sufficiently unhelpful to the lives of mothers that a reproductively-aged female who is bent on reproducing might be better off hanging with her gal pals than relying on a man to be the Big Strong Provider for her.

I say this as someone who has so few local female friends that I didn’t get a baby shower for either of my babies—men do not throw baby showers for women and I have not one single female friend who is not actually the wife of a male friend of my husband, or a friend of my husband herself and not really my friend personally, who lives within 50 miles of my home. Having a group of female friends who care enough about you that they’d make a pregnancy pact with you sounds probably more attractive to me than it is.

Comment #11: Alara Rogers  on  07/01  at  02:44 PM

OK, the pregnancy pact is bogus, but that leaves the question of why did the pregnancy rate quadruple in a year?

Because people don’t understand statistical variation.  It was 4 girls one year and 17 the next.  I’m sure a statistician could figure out easily for you that’s expected variation, especially since out of a student population of 1200, 200 will be pregnant before they’re 20 if they’re close to the national average.  Many won’t show up on the radar because they’ll abort before the school finds out, of course.  But that just adds another variable that will make statistics like that vary wildly. 

You know, if you have an average rainfall of 10 inches a year over five years, you can have years in there were it was 2 and some where it was 20.

Comment #12: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/01  at  02:55 PM

Alara-know just what you mean.

Comment #13: Burning Prairie  on  07/01  at  02:58 PM

I just took a quick look at the map—20 miles away from Gloucester is a long damn way, both in terms of transit and in terms of social strata. Unless there were huge posters all over school with the address of the clinic and bus schedules for how to get there, it might as well be on the moon.


The Commuter Rail runs regularly from the center of town, but the point is high school kids shouldn’t have to take day-long solo excursions into the city for basic medical care.

Comment #14: Juan Stoppabl  on  07/01  at  02:59 PM

Re: to make it clear, I’m referring to the fact that 1 out of 3 American women is pregnant at least once before she turns 20.  The teenage pregnancy rate is much higher than perceived, because we tend to see it as a year-to-year thing and of course, you’re actually a teenager for 7 years.  Over 18 doesn’t count as much, and then you have the hidden aspects because of miscarriage and abortion.  In the grand scheme of things, a 4 girls to 17 girls jump isn’t that remarkable.

Comment #15: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/01  at  03:00 PM

This is the most balls-ass retarded thing I’ve read all week.

And it’s only Tuesday.

Sweet mother of Mercy.

Comment #16: dan  on  07/01  at  03:23 PM

Doesn’t that make the baby-minded among us all just want to go out and find a gang of seven gal pals and make a pregnancy pact with *them?*

My god, Alara, you’ve just about convinced ME. I’m in the same boat as you - all my girlfriends are the wives/girlfriends/friends of my boyfriends’ buddies. It’s hard meeting women in my profession (engineer), especially when I work in a closed room which is predominantly populated with males. Granted, it probably sounds more romantic than it actually is (not unlike how great it seems to have a live-in sister on TV, but I suspect it can suck in real life), but it still SOUNDS pretty damn romantic.

And, yeah, I was a wee bit disappointed when I heard the news, too. If only because “pregnancy pact” seems better than “unwanted pregnancy”. Sigh.

Comment #17: Faye  on  07/01  at  03:26 PM

So we shouldn’t provide contraception to teenage girls because they want to get pregnant, which means they won’t use contraception. But we don’t want them to get pregnant, so we shouldn’t provide them contraception because they might use it and not get pregnant, which we don’t want them to do, but they want to so they will anyway, so contraception is wrong.

My head hurts.

Comment #18: Bitter Scribe  on  07/01  at  04:21 PM

no matter how much evidence you marshaled to prove that there was no fucking way, wingnuts would believe that gangs of teenage girls are roaming the countryside, sucking up sperm from hapless men with their succubi cunts of doom in order to get their hands on that diamond-jewelry-buying welfare cash.

Well, duh - if it didn’t happen then why is there a manga with PRECISELY that plot?  Are you accusing the Japanese of lying?

Re: to make it clear, I’m referring to the fact that 1 out of 3 American women is pregnant at least once before she turns 20.  The teenage pregnancy rate is much higher than perceived, because we tend to see it as a year-to-year thing and of course, you’re actually a teenager for 7 years.  Over 18 doesn’t count as much, and then you have the hidden aspects because of miscarriage and abortion.  In the grand scheme of things, a 4 girls to 17 girls jump isn’t that remarkable.

Actually, there appears to be something going on.

Estimates: sample population of 600 girls : chance per event of around 2%. This can be approximated with a normal distribution with a mean of 12 and a std dev of 3.4. The 17 girls can be explained; the 4 girls is pushing the boundaries.  You can play with that estimated chance a bit (although if you make it much lower, it’ll be close to invalidating a normal distribution to a binomial distribution).

Assuming your figures are correct, I’d actually expect the percentage of teenagers falling preggers every year to be higher.  This would mean it’s the low number last year that looks puzzling.  Either way, the stats suggest something has been going on - whether it be that the pregnancies this year are not independent, or that the lack of pregnancies last year were not independent.

Comment #19: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  07/01  at  04:53 PM

Some ways in which this could have happened, not counting for normal statistical variation:

A bad batch of birth control pills.
A bad batch of condoms.
Some sort of bacterial infection that went around the school, causing a bunch of girls to use antibiotics, causing birth control failure.
Anti-condom propaganda.
Some dumb boys thinking poking holes in condoms is fun.

Just some ideas…

Comment #20: Ashley  on  07/01  at  05:02 PM

I agree with those disappointed the pact wasn’t real. Of course, I had the initial knee-jerk reaction against it, but then I started thinking about the logistics. If they could rent an old house from the era when families were large and had servants, they would likely be able to get it for less than individual rentals. They could take turns doing various chores, like cooking for the group or cleaning the kitchen after. Trips to the laundromat would be done in groups so they can socialize and the time would fly by.
As for work and schooling, they could take turns with day care vs day job and could probably support each other at least through getting AA degrees.
Girls unhappy at home might very well choose such a life, and planning it out with their friends would indicate a much higher level of responsibility than an Oops does.

Comment #21: Samantha Vimes  on  07/01  at  05:02 PM

Here are a couple points:

even with the big increase Gloucester has a lower rate than many of the surrounding schools;

one of the things talked about as a possible reason for the increase was that Gloucester has made a concerted effort to keep pregnant girls going to school (they made day care more available, ...)—it was argued that one of the ways this was done was to make pregnancy sound better without talking about some of the problems associated with it (this would probably also lead to a decrease in abortions—don’t the fundys want that?).

Comment #22: JohnL  on  07/01  at  05:22 PM

So, lesse… that’s Alara, myself, and Samantha interested in the new baby coven. I’d just bet we could get Opoponax to join, if we asked nicely. Has anyone picked a location yet?

Just kidding, but I do completely agree that I like the empowerment involved in a conscious decision like this rather than “just another accidental teen pregnancy”.

Anyway, as far as sperm donation, I’ve already lined up my “backup”, so at least I won’t have to pay the outrageous sperm bank prices!

Comment #23: Faye  on  07/01  at  05:22 PM

First, this whole thing puzzled me from the start - I’ve been following the story for the last week or so. From what I understand, the school officials resigned because contraception had previously been more available, but - months prior to the spate of pregnancies - been withdrawn and was no longer offered. The principle, with major mud on his face, came up with this crap.

Also, there does seem to have been some informal “pact” made by the girls AFTER they discovered they were pregnant to help one another raise their children, finish school, etc. (Which would be a good thing, you’d think, rather than running out to have abortions…)

Why do economically disadvantaged teens tend not to delay sex? This is news? At any rate, there’s a decent piece in, of all places, the Guardian, about myth vs reality, about bored teens with little future… then again, it was written by Melissa McEwan… do I know that name from somewhere?
See here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/25/gender.sexeducation

Comment #24: TheMadInscriber  on  07/01  at  05:33 PM

Thanks, Amanda, Ashley, et al for clearing that up. It would be nice to read an article (on almost any subject, really) that answers the obvious questions that occur to anyone reading the damn thing, like “Well, why might that be?”

As for our own locally-grown pregnancy pact, I’m not capable of getting pregnant, but I do like babies, so count me in. I’ll try my best.

Comment #25: zadig  on  07/01  at  05:36 PM

Dammit, I was so going to say that I’d be game for a pregnancy pact.  Of course I have nowhere to keep the damn thing, and my job forces me to live in either New York or Los Angeles.  But if we can get around that, I’m in!

Comment #26: The Opoponax  on  07/01  at  05:38 PM

it was argued that one of the ways this was done was to make pregnancy sound better without talking about some of the problems associated with it

Of course, on the other hand, it’s also possible that what we’re really seeing is is the same number of prengantn girls, but 3/4s of them didn’t feel the need to drop out of high school this time.

Comment #27: The Opoponax  on  07/01  at  05:40 PM

This would mean it’s the low number last year that looks puzzling. 

Agreed.  But with teenagers, a really high number of pregnancies never turn into births, because teenagers are much more likely to abort.  So the pregnancy rate at most high schools seems lower than it actually is, because a lot of pregnancies never get counted by school officials because they’re aborted quietly.

Other factors: The older the teenager, the likelier the pregnancy.  You have more pregnant 18- and 19-year-olds than 15- and 16-year-olds, so high schools aren’t the best place to count all the pregnant teenagers, since a lot have already graduated.  Drop outs probably also influence the disparity between the actual pregnancy rate in the U.S. and what’s being noticed in high schools.

Comment #28: Amanda Marcotte  on  07/01  at  05:47 PM

Just kidding, but I do completely agree that I like the empowerment involved in a conscious decision like this rather than “just another accidental teen pregnancy”.

Honestly, I think that teenagers shouldn’t make irreversible decisions which impact the rest of their lives - and someone else’s. At 15, your judgement as to what you want to do for the rest of your life is not good - and while going to the wrong college is something you can fix, having a kid is not.

Now, adult women forming a maternity commune is different entirely, and has potential for awesome. Or maybe the premise for one of those roommate sitcoms that seem very popular.

Comment #29: pepito  on  07/01  at  05:50 PM

Pepito, rather than make a pregnancy pact, what would you prefer these girls do?

I’d place good odds on their options being “checker at Walmart” and “marrying a member of the football team”. College probably isn’t a realistic options for these girls.

Under those circumstances, I think consciously joining together to support one another in a lesbian baby commune (or whatever) is a heckova lot more empowered than just passively sleeping with your boyfriend and - oops! - getting pregnant because your community doesn’t have birth control. And then, I dunno, marrying the boy and maybe being overworked, undersupported, and generally miserable for the rest of your life.

Mind you, I’m not advocating pregnancy pact over college. But I’m trying to be realistic.

Comment #30: Faye  on  07/01  at  06:02 PM

Pepito, rather than make a pregnancy pact, what would you prefer these girls do?


Make the decision to use condoms or other birth control.

I agree that it’s better to get pregnant on purpose than by accident. But your options at 19 - which admittedly were limited for these girls anyway - are dramatically reduced if you have a toddler to take care of. Checker at Walmart is even harder to live on when you have to look after a child.

Once they were pregnant, I agree that thinking ahead about how to raise the kids is a good idea.

Comment #31: pepito  on  07/01  at  08:33 PM

I’d place good odds on their options being “checker at Walmart” and “marrying a member of the football team”. College probably isn’t a realistic options for these girls.

The town’s demographics aren’t that different from my hometown with the exception of there being a lot more white people and a little less people overall.

It’s not some random town that’s off the beaten tracks. Graduating high school and going to one of the fifty billion colleges in new england isn’t really in the realm of fantasy.

Comment #32: Juan Stoppable  on  07/01  at  09:37 PM

It’s not some random town that’s off the beaten tracks. Graduating high school and going to one of the fifty billion colleges in new england isn’t really in the realm of fantasy.

Yes, because god knows there’s no such thing as poverty in urban areas.

Comment #33: The Opoponax  on  07/01  at  09:54 PM

Make the decision to use condoms or other birth control.

Okay, I’m not yelling AT you, I’m yelling WITH you: HOW WERE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO THAT?

I don’t know why people think condoms magically fall from the sky. When I was a kid, I had neither the money, nor the balls (you had to ask the pharmacist to get the condoms out from the locked glass counter) to buy condoms, and I couldn’t get them for free. The school wouldn’t distribute them, and I didn’t know of any other place that would. I didn’t even HEAR the word “diaphram” until I went to college. And BC? Need a doctor’s note (and money) for that. That’s sort of the POINT - this school didn’t have adequate BC methods, the girls got pregnant, and the principal made up this pact to get his ass out of hot water.

Checker at Walmart is even harder to live on when you have to look after a child.

Not necessarily, if you live in a lesbian baby commune, with all the women helping each other, pooling resources, etc. Which was my POINT.

Comment #34: Faye  on  07/01  at  09:56 PM

So, lesse… that’s Alara, myself, and Samantha interested in the new baby coven. I’d just bet we could get Opoponax to join, if we asked nicely. Has anyone picked a location yet?

If you make it in Los Angeles, I could join, too!  I’d probably have to be an adjunct member what with already having a husband and all, but he’s really good with kids and would make a great babysitter for the coven.

Comment #35: Mnemosyne  on  07/01  at  09:57 PM

<haughty> Mnemosyne, men will be allowed, as long as they don’t create more housework than they help with. Zero-sum rules, and all that. </haughty>

Heh, and if the fundies are right, polygamy will soon be legal now that gay marriage is legal (‘cause they’re, like, the same thing right?), so we can all even be married together and have legal protections, yay!

Come to think of it, this actually sounds like a WAY more healthy growing environment than the one someof my friends grew up in. Hmm.

Comment #36: Faye  on  07/01  at  10:03 PM

Make the decision to use condoms or other birth control.

How do you know that all 17 of these girls didn’t?

Comment #37: history_mom  on  07/01  at  10:13 PM

Faye, you’re crossing the threads!

I don’t know why people think condoms magically fall from the sky.

I have European privilege - we were taught this stuff properly in school. And my parents bought me books that explained STDs (and other things that parents normally don’t like talking about themselves, such as drugs) in a teen-friendly way. Then at college we had condoms handed out for free. Also, they’re available for purchase in the restrooms of almost everywhere - the first condom I bought was at a movie theater when I was 14 - it cost about 1/5th of the price of the ticket ticket. It expired before I lost my virginity, but the point is that there’s a right way to do this and I forget sometimes that we don’t do it here.

Because while we don’t have separation of church and state in Britain, the church that’s connected to our state is Anglican (Episcopalian) which is less crazy than some of the others - see countless Eddie Izzard skits for reference.

Comment #38: pepito  on  07/01  at  10:21 PM

How do you know that all 17 of these girls didn’t?

I was responding to Faye’s comment that if they HAD made a pregnancy pact before getting pregnant, it would be a good thing. I disagreed with that.

From all the evidence, it doesn’t actually apply here since the pact was in the principal’s head. But if they HAD decided to get pregnant, I would assume that they weren’t using condoms.

Comment #39: pepito  on  07/01  at  10:23 PM

Yes, because god knows there’s no such thing as poverty in urban areas.

They were/are already going to high school for free. Going to North Shore community college or a technical school wouldn’t / isn’t a pie in the sky dream for them.

I don’t see why I should be mocked for correcting the assumption that they didn’t have more options than retail and getting knocked up by Johnny Quarterback.

Comment #40: Juan Stoppable  on  07/01  at  10:25 PM

I have European privilege - we were taught this stuff properly in school.

In that case, you are “forgiven” and I apologize for yelling, because god knows that *I* wouldn’t believe how crazy stuff gets over here if I hadn’t grown up with it. How you Europeans believe us, I don’t know - I’d assume this was all some huge liberal fairy tale.

And, yes, I do agree that not getting pregnant at 15 is better than a pregnancy pact. I was just going under the assumption that no birth control was available and that they were sleeping with their boyfriends and they KNEW they were likely to get pregnant ANYWAY, so they went ahead and made a pact. Which seemed like making lemonade out of the lemons you knew life (and sex-craxed adults) were about to hand you.

Comment #41: Faye  on  07/01  at  11:42 PM

Juan, technically you started the “mocking” by taking my “College probably isn’t a realistic option” and turning it into some kind of fantasy land statement about how freakin’ poor these girls must be.

However, setting the past aside, when I said “College probably isn’t a realistic option”, I meant that, and not just for money reasons. You have to assume that these girls come from a support system that wants/expects them to go to college. You have to assume that the family will help the girl through college, either monetarily or with living arrangements or even just some emotional support. You have to assume that these girls have ever - once - seen any evidence that going to college would improve their life in any way, and that they wouldn’t just be seen as another “Aunt Lisa” who is an old maid (at 29) and a lesbian (because she has comfortable shoes) and a stuck-up bitch (because she doesn’t come home for the holidays to be called ‘lesbian’).

And, yea, this stuff happens. I knew a lot of girls growing up who saw this all the time - and one of them actually DID deliberately get pregnant at 16. Because she didn’t feel life offered many other options, so she decided to get it over with. No one told her she could aim higher, so she never knew. And - yes - she was poor, and probably could have gotten a scholarship or something, but who can say?

When you live that life, college ISN’T a realistic option for you, simply because you can’t believe that it is. Even if your family COULD swing sending you to school for a couple of years.

Comment #42: Faye  on  07/01  at  11:49 PM

They were/are already going to high school for free. Going to North Shore community college or a technical school wouldn’t / isn’t a pie in the sky dream for them.

Don’t most community colleges cost money?  Maybe it’s not a lot of money to you or me, but it still might be out of the reach of some people.

Also, I don’t necessarily think anyone here is saying none of them had any more options than retail wage slavery or Mrs. Johnny Burgerflip, but that these girls may have seen it that way.  There’s a way of looking at the situation where you can see how or why some of these girls might have wanted to get pregnant.  I’ve noticed so far that most teenagers know fuck-all about what their real options are, no matter how much privilege and opportunity they have.  I kick myself for selling myself short on college, worrying too much about what I would “do” with my degree, and assuming flat out that I shouldn’t pursue various things because they couldn’t possibly come to anything.  And I had the money and the family connections and the general sense of privilege to at least know that I would be handed a college education and get to pursue the white-collar career of my choice.  These girls don’t even have that, and all they see around them is example of example of the choice between menial labor or a potentially abusive marriage to someone they would never have the financial power to leave. 

And I think we can all agree that empathizing with someone else’s shitty situation is probably preferable to simply judging them for it, especially if you haven’t walked in those shoes.

Comment #43: The Opoponax  on  07/01  at  11:49 PM

I sometimes take the train to Gloucester from Boston so I can bike to a kayak outfitter I like.  If you take a bike on the train, you can save some money, but the nearest clinic really isn’t accessible by rail stops on the Gloucester line.

It costs $17.00, plus any bus or subway fare needed to get to and from North Station.  The trip is over an hour just to North Station, and nearly an hour out to Brookline or Brighton where the clinics are - where my then neighbor was shot to death at the reception desk in the early 90s or to the Longwood medical area.

All told, it will take a whole day and at least $20 in transportation.

Comment #44: Ms Kate  on  07/02  at  12:03 AM

This story reminds me of the Rainbow Parties rumor that went around a few years ago: allegedly, there was this fad sweeping the nation wherein a bunch of girls would wear different colors of lipstick and give a boy a communal blow job that would leave him with rings of color forming a rainbow.  You’d think that anyone who had ever given or received oral sex would recognize the logistical issues here, but nope, I knew many otherwise intelligent people who were willing to believe that this was going on.

I do not understand anyone who takes high school gossip at face value.  Teenagers are startlingly gullible and will believe many implausible things are happening at their school.  They aren’t doing it and their good friends aren’t doing it, but someone’s boyfriend’s sister’s best friend totally did.  There are also kids who engage in a ton of wishful thinking, and kids who will make stuff up to shock the credulous adult with the notepad and tape recorder.  I mean, it’s not that high school gossip is useless as ethnographic raw material but you have to treat it as communal folklore, not as historical fact.

Comment #45: Naomi  on  07/02  at  01:09 AM

Faye and Opoponax: I’ll respond to both of you in one because it mostly overlaps.

I was just disagreeing with the idea that “(c)ollege probably isn’t a realistic options for these girls.” I just felt that indicated they were doomed to wage slavery regardless so who cares if they got pregnant. Faye clarified, and I get what she was saying now.

You’re right in that I was assuming they’d be aware of their options, but, again, I didn’t find that assumption unrealistic. (Hopefully, now that they do have a support system, they might be able to avail themselves at some point while they start their families).

Also, to be clear I wasn’t judging them. If they wanted a child and got one, then they honestly have my congratulations.

Comment #46: Juan Stoppable  on  07/02  at  01:16 AM

All told, it will take a whole day and at least $20 in transportation.

Yea, no high school kid should have to deal with that.

Comment #47: Juan Stoppable  on  07/02  at  01:19 AM

Uh, I see there’s a pregnancy pact brewing among Pandagon commenters. Yall are gonna need some guys to help out, right? I mean genetically, you know. I’d hope you’d find me halfway decent enough to try the things the “traaditional” way, but if it has to be the turkey baster, so be it

I’m tall and thin, and have no genetic problems other than mild nearsightedness and flat feet. While I do have occasional bouts of depression psychosis (how Old School, none of that bipolar II crap for me) I think it’s same to assume that these symptoms are the result of extreme social deprivation (see _The Boy who was Raised as a Dog_ for examples) rather than any genetic predisposition tto depression. I’m sure kids raised in your pregnancy pact commune will fare much better than I had it.

(please note the intended humor here. I don’t wanna be banned)

Comment #48: Bacopa  on  07/02  at  01:52 AM

Alara and others:

I’ve only heard this on livejournal from commenters reading an article I couldn’t get to, so take it with an entire mound of salt, but if those commenters weren’t misreading it seems like the whole idea of the “pact” came out of something like you were describing. After a large group of the girls had already found out they were pregnant, they informally agreed to help each other out and watch each others’ backs, since they were all in the same boat.

The pregnancies would still be an “oops” in this case, but the agreement would be a pretty empowering and mature choice afterwards.

Comment #49: luzzleanne  on  07/02  at  01:57 AM

Nevermind that mound of salt.  There’s a different article here that pretty much says the same thing.

“There was definitely no pact,” Oliver told “Good Morning America.” “There was a group of girls already pregnant that decided they were going to help each other to finish school and raise their kids together. I think it was just a coincidence.”

Comment #50: luzzleanne  on  07/02  at  02:08 AM

Can I get in on this pregnancy pact thing? I’m 34 and the biggest thing that’s been keeping me from parenthood is that I really don’t want to do it by myself. I have two friends who are single mothers by choice and one who became a single mother not by choice when her husband decided that he really didn’t want to be married and a father any more, and their lives are just hard hard hard. And all three of them make more money than I do and can actually afford day care. I’d be hard-pressed to do that. They’re exhausted all the time though. I could completely get into living with a handful of other women in a big house and sharing the child care and housekeeping and working outside the home to bring in the money responsibilities.

I remember hearing about kibbutzes in Israel when I was a little girl and had my head filled with Zionist stuff. (They left a lot of details out.) I thought that was the greatest idea, that everyone in the community had a job on the kibbutz, that the kids all grew up together and one of the jobs was child care, and that meals were made and eaten communally. As long as I had my own bedroom that I could retreat to when I needed a little time to myself - which I’d be a lot more likely to get with five other moms if we could agree that these two are caring for the six kids and it’s this one’s day to herself than if I were a single mom alone with my child - I’d love to live in some sort of communal situation, whether I was partnered or not.

Comment #51: onejewishdyke  on  07/02  at  05:26 AM

Estimates: sample population of 600 girls : chance per event of around 2%. This can be approximated with a normal distribution with a mean of 12 and a std dev of 3.4. The 17 girls can be explained; the 4 girls is pushing the boundaries.  You can play with that estimated chance a bit (although if you make it much lower, it’ll be close to invalidating a normal distribution to a binomial distribution).

Actually, on further thought I’ll retract even this.

The chances of a school quadrupling its teenage pregnancy rate like this are, at a rough guess three or four hundred to one.  Something along those lines.

But why are we interested in this school?  Because it quadrupled its teen pregnancy rate, the parents threw a shitfit, and some lame conspiracy theory was hatched.

Now - in how many schools in America do you think parents would throw a shitfit and invent a lame conspiracy theory if the pregnancy rate quadrupled over a year? Three or four hundred?  More?

Therefore, there is no evidence of “anything going on”.  I imagine that there was a hell of a lot of pressure on the principal to explain what WAS going on. Which brings us back to this in Amanda’s original post:

Well, here’s the no fucking way part: Turns out the principal, in his desperation to prove the nay-sayers that suggest that making contraception available to teenagers might help them contracept, made up the pregnancy pact.  His main source was, contrary to his initial claims, not the school nurses’ office, but the gossip in the school hallways, which as we all recall has an accuracy rate nearing utter perfection.

Amanda’s analysis of why the DirtyFuckingSluts got the blame so easily can stand or fall on its own merits without any need to provide an alternative explanation.

Comment #52: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  07/02  at  05:31 AM

Juan: No harm, no foul, then. smile

This story reminds me of the Rainbow Parties rumor that went around a few years ago: allegedly, there was this fad sweeping the nation wherein a bunch of girls would wear different colors of lipstick and give a boy a communal blow job that would leave him with rings of color forming a rainbow.

This is further evidence to me that the “Christians” who get so uptight about these stories have never done anything but missionary position in total darkness. Because this makes zero sense to me. Another (more plausible/possible) rumor I heard along these lines was that girls wore different colored bracelets to indicate “how far” they would go/had gone. I believe ‘Judging Amy’ spread that little gem around.

Onejewishdyke et. al.: You know, this whole baby commune pact started as a joke, but I’m now actually startled that there aren’t more people doing it in Real Life. Shoot, there should be a Personals website for it or something. Single mothering IS hard whether it’s chosen or not (and there are a LOT of guys who skip out on their wives/kids - my sister was married to one). And there are more and more career women in their late 30’s who are now faced with single motherhood vs. no children ever. Given all this, I’m actually amazed that there aren’t groups of 3-4 women each having babies, pooling resources, raising them together, and getting by on their own. It sounds a lot easier than doing it by yourself, anyway.

Why don’t we hear about this? Is it because our culture prizes individuality too much? Or is it because any situation like this has got to be evil lesbianism so we studiously ignore it? Or is it because babies are supposed to be something made for men? What are you supposed to do when the male bails and the child support system we have is woefully inadequate, if only because it revolves around money, when parenting takes much more than that? I’m actually a little upset about this - it seems like a good idea, for a lot of women, really, and darned if there shouldn’t be, like, Craigslist listings for this or somehting. Or at LEAST so flyers at Curves….

Comment #53: Faye  on  07/02  at  08:52 AM

Faye:

I had just been thinking that one of the big problems with baby communes is that most of modern housing design is completely oriented against it (and even those big old victorians with lots of rooms don’t typically have lots of adult-sized bedrooms). But what about finding a couple of foreclosed mcMansions on adjoining lots?

(And a lot of people are quietly doing things like this, albeit not always same-sex or purely for raising kids—look for “intentional communities” or “cohousing” or terms like that.)

Comment #54: paul  on  07/02  at  10:47 AM

Oh, I realized it was a joke. But as I got to thinking about it, it occurred to me how ideal it was for a group of fairly like-minded single women such as we have here. I don’t imagine I’d actually do it even if I did find an ad on Craigslist looking for other women just like me right now. In fact, one of my single mom friends did ask if I was interested in moving in with her, and as I wasn’t (for some logistical & philosophical reasons - she has small rooms, I have a cat I won’t adopt out, I don’t watch much TV but she doesn’t want one in her home at all and as an insomniac sometimes I need boring sitcoms to knock me out at 2 am), I tried to hook her up with another single mom friend. It was more that I was writing in frustration that it’s really not seen as a viable family option in our culture than an expression of what I want to do at this point in my life. I think that even though I’m at the age where people around me are having kids, I’m still a few years away. Most likely I will eventually adopt an older child, but not yet. I feel like I have the capacity to love a child whom I haven’t known since infancy, as a former teacher in a school with a “challenging population” (nice euphemism they call it, eh?) I know all kinds of issues that school age children with lousy home lives can have, and a having child in elementary school from 9-3 every day in a county like mine that has before and after school care programs at the elementary schools would eliminate a huge portion of the day care expenses that I would have with an infant or toddler. There’s a big difference between $150 a month for an hour in the morning and two hours in the afternoon sandwiching the school day (I’ve looked into it) and $600-800 per month for all-day care for a pre-schooler.

Comment #55: onejewishdyke  on  07/02  at  04:19 PM

Although I completely agree with the principal involved, I would like to point out that the nearest Planned Parenthood is 3.4 miles from the center of Gloucester and involves 1 turn. Clinic #2 & #3 are 4.5 miles away and easily accessible by public transportation as they are both near the mall. As far as knowledge of such, I cant speak to it but none of these clinics exactly hide their presence - 1 is a large white building with ridiculous doric columns and 2 ft lettering streetside.

Comment #56: That Girl  on  07/02  at  08:12 PM

Another (more plausible/possible) rumor I heard along these lines was that girls wore different colored bracelets to indicate “how far” they would go/had gone. I believe ‘Judging Amy’ spread that little gem around.

The version of that I heard was that if a girl was wearing jelly bracelets, and the boy snapped a few off, the colors he snapped off indicated the specific sexual favors that the girl was then obligated to provide for him.

I can readily believe that there was teenaged folklore that said this, and that if some boy snapped off your bracelet your friends might say “oooh, noooo!  Now you owe him a blow job!”  However, I suspect that the usual response was probably more along the lines of “shut up! In your dreams, dork!” than “oh, okay. Meet me behind the gym between 4th and 5th hour, okay?”

Comment #57: Naomi  on  07/02  at  10:53 PM
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