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Next entry: How to Survive the Earthquake of ‘11 Previous entry: The Tea Party’s influence felt on the local level, with book bannings

Texas, jobs, and politics

EconomyElectionsTexas

New Bloggingheads!  This time it's me and Joshua Treviño, patriarchy-lover extraordinaire and former Bush speechwriter, discussing the Perry campaign's chances and the role Texas plays in national politics.  You may be surprised to find that I'm largely unwilling to get into the weeds with him about the reality of the "Texas miracle".  It's not that I'm unaware that the "Texas miracle" is a myth.  I point out in the video that Texas's unemployment rate is still at a record high and is only one point below the national average, and here I'd like to add that Texas has higher unemployment than Massachusetts or New York.  Plus, dwelling on unemployment numbers is a way to distract from the fact that decades of neglect and Republican rule have created a culture of poverty in Texas that is stunning to even see, which Treviño no doubt has, since he travels a lot.  It's got the 6th highest poverty rate in the nation.  And pretty much everything that's shielded Texas from plunging even further into the abyss has nothing to do with Rick Perry's leadership: as someone who lived there 32 years, I can state with assurance that the mass migration of people to Texas owes more to the weather than any other factor.  Unlike someplace like New York that has hot summers and freezing winters, most of Texas doesn't have a winter to speak of, and a culture of air conditioning prevents the summers from being that bad.  New York is actually harder to take than Austin in the summer because it's so humid and there's so little intense air conditioning---some days you're just going to be sticky no matter what you do.  Not so in Austin. When people ask Marc and myself what we miss most about Texas, we tend to say "the weather".  The Tex-Mex, our friends, the Alamo Drafthouse---all fine things, but 70 degree days in January is hard to beat. Central Texas is the new Southern California, a place where you go when you could go anywhere, because it's got nice weather, and unlike Southern California, it's still not as crowded, though that's changing.

Anyway, getting off-topic.  Here's why I'm wary of arguing about the non-existent "Texas miracle": the old maxim that if you're explaining, you're losing.  This is the same trap liberals always fall into.  Conservatives trot out some quick, farcical, but evocative phrase like "Texas miracle", toss that out there, and enjoy watching liberals start arguing it, complete with heavy details and nuance that cause everyone who isn't already a detail-oriented liberal to tune out.  They try to drag you down the rabbit hole, too---if you successfully argue something simple as a rebuttal, they have a bunch of other lies to throw out to get you back to the bad habit of 'splaining shit. Treviño tried to bait me repeatedly like this, trying to toss out half-truths and falsehoods in order to get me to argue them down.  Anyone undecided watching this finds themselves emotionally attracted to the easy lies and not to the complex truths.  As long as we're fighting on their turf, we're losing.

Treviño asked me a hard question about this, and I struggled with an answer.  Clearly, the answer for an Obama win in 2012 is for them to start getting those jobs created and fast.  Steve Benen was closing in on the answer with this piece where he told the administration to start approving Republican requests for projects in their districts that would create jobs. He's right that they need to get that approving pen out and start fast-tracking some jobs.  But he's wrong that they should do it in places like Bachmann's district.  There's no return on that investment for them.  Even if Obama turns the economy around in some shitty little Whitopia Republican hellhole, they are still not going to vote for him.  The hardcore Republican districts vote their religion and skin color, full stop.  Giving them money in some political kabuki isn't what's going to get the job done.

No, the answer is to target spending in swing districts.  Ohio, Florida, places like that?  They're not going to be entranced by bullshit memes about the "Texas miracle" when they're experiencing an actual Ohio miracle or Florida miracle. Show them that Obama has the will to use his power to get them working again, and they'll respond positively.  Most people trust Democrats more on these issues than Republicans, and only vote for Republicans out of a desperate sense that since the Democrat isn't working, then they'll take their chances with the new guy, even if they're less trusting of the new guy's message. 

Of course, that's the sort of bold, ass-saving move we're not used to getting from Obama, so I'm not going to bet the house on that one.  But I do think it's important to remember that if you're explaining, you're losing.  If someone starts to go off on the "Texas miracle", I recommend joking it off instead of explaining it off---it is a miracle, because after all, Rick Perry had shit all to do with it, so you might as well thank your supernatural deity. All your efforts would be better spent focusing on what Obama has accomplished, and suggesting that a solid Democratic win in 2012 could help him accomplish more. 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 08:15 AM • (37) Comments

Your refusal to argue the Texas “miracle” reminds me a lot of scientists’ refusal to argue with creationists. And it seems like from what you’re saying that Republicans use similar strategies to creationists in terms of making easy, lie-filled arguments that go straight for the gut and bypass the brain.

Of course, that’s not surprising, given that creationists and Republicans are frequently one and the same. And I’m not against your strategy, I’m just finding the parallels interesting.

Comment #1: luxaeturna  on  08/23  at  09:57 AM

Green light works in swing states/regions; yes. 
But also, keep the big things moving.  Use the federal system. Do not let Congress shut down user fee taxes and thereby defund the FAA; just calling them out, very publicly, especially on how the rural districts are the ones that will be most hurt would pretty much do that.  Push through federal trasportation projects - real jobs for those Real Americans (TM) from middle America (or at least their image of themselves, even when the crew is from NY or NJ).

Comment #2: helen w. h.  on  08/23  at  10:26 AM

No, the answer is to target spending in swing districts.  Ohio, Florida, places like that?  They’re not going to be entranced by bullshit memes about the “Texas miracle” when they’re experiencing an actual Ohio miracle or Florida miracle. Show them that Obama has the will to use his power to get them working again, and they’ll respond positively.  Most people trust Democrats more on these issues than Republicans, and only vote for Republicans out of a desperate sense that since the Democrat isn’t working, then they’ll take their chances with the new guy, even if they’re less trusting of the new guy’s message.

It’s worth noting that Obama has been giving money to a lot of swing states.  HSR projects were slated for Florida, Ohio, and Wisconsin.  They’ve all been rejected by the governors.  Likewise, money for Medicare and money for unemployment benefits have been slapped down in these states - ostentatiously because the GOP governors claim the money comes with strings attached.

Comment #3: Zifnab  on  08/23  at  10:28 AM

I’m not saying you’re wrong here, Amanda, but I can’t help but be really disheartened at the idea that “if you’re explaining, you’re losing.” It seems to me sometimes that “if you’re not explaining, you’re conceding.” I don’t exactly have a marvelous insight into the way the minds of the politically unengaged work, but this “Texas miracle” meme seems to me something that needs to be shredded as quickly as possible, if for no other reason than if Rick Perry can successfully portray himself as some kind of economic savant when the economy is shit, then he’ll likely win by default, especially in the absence of any other narrative to replace it.

I guess I’m just not sure what the alternative is. If we don’t explain why the “Texas miracle” is utter horseshit, then how are people supposed to know not to believe in it? Are we supposed to simply change the subject? It’s difficult for me to see how that wouldn’t be interpreted by lesser-informed observers as simply conceding the point or dodging the question because we’re uncomfortable, which I think many would interpret as a tacit admission that we can’t refute it. But maybe it’s just my personal analytical bias making me unable to grasp this.

Comment #4: Epsilon82  on  08/23  at  10:31 AM

I LOVE the strategy of making fun of them at every opportunity even for those like me who are not especially witty. So when someone says Texas Miracle I counter with, “Do you mean when Perry prayed for rain?” Since the drought conditions still exist there. Or maybe he wasn’t specific enough about where he wanted it to rain as DC (where he hopes to live) was deluged last weekend with some pretty crazy storms.

I hope you’re right about people in swing states. All of my husbands relatives live in Ohio and 1/2 of them tend to vote their religion and skin color even though republican policies are why their adult children can only find work at McDonald’s. And after this debt ceiling debacle if Obama uses any language to even imply that the republicans are in “honest disagreement” with him or attempts to send one penny of stimulus money to a tea bagger district, I’m afraid I’m going to become one of those people who whines all the time about how big of a disappointment he is.

Comment #5: serious bette  on  08/23  at  10:35 AM

@Epsilon82 Really the Democrats are in a Catch-22 in this situation. You have an okay argument here for why they should do it. But as has been shown in the climate & creationism debates, people just don’t care about the factually correct answers. There is no real debate about these topics and you can find a multitude of internet articles explaining why those two points are so completely wrong. Pundits should be well beyond having to argue either point to the general population. However, people are lazy and taking the time to explain it to them only bogs down the person taking that time. Meanwhile their opponents can spend that time making arguments and rallying support and money which means that they seem to “win the debate” to those who are uninformed.

At some point you need to just call it what it is, pure bullshit” and move on to why your opponent is wrong and argue your own point, put THEM on the defensive. Explaining just doesn’t do that. It’s an inherently defensive move and a boring one to boot!

Comment #6: siveambrai  on  08/23  at  10:39 AM

Mockery always works. I’ll stick to pointing out that the rest of us don’t call beating Mississippi and Alabama a “miracle.” Let them try to argue that it’s unfair.

Comment #7: Llelldorin  on  08/23  at  10:47 AM

Yeah, bette, I think that “honest disagreement” ship has sailed.

Threatening not to raise the debt ceiling for existing appropriations is exactly like threatening not to pay for the pizza you ordered fifteen minutes ago. It might suck to have to borrow the money, but it sucks worse to stiff the pizza guy.

There’s no honest disagreement there. They were just being jerks.

Comment #8: catfood  on  08/23  at  10:49 AM

Ah, the Texas miracle, which is that Perry’s pro-business, anti-people policies have created the highest number of minimum-wage jobs in the country. Of course, the poor should just be grateful for what they get, while the rich deserve as much as they can get their hands on, right Perry?

Comment #9: Triplanetary  on  08/23  at  11:00 AM

Eps, I disagree.  You’re not conceding if you wave off their lies and say, “Yeah, yeah I know you have your bullshit, but let’s talk about MY talking points.” 

Stop letting them frame the discussion.

Zif has a good strategy.  When someone starts talking up Texas say, “Gosh, Obama has slated all this money for Ohio, Wisconsin, and Florida, and their governors turned it down.  They’re willing to destroy their own states to make him look bad.  Isn’t that terrible?!”  Make them talk about what you want to talk about.  That’s what the right is so good at and we suck at.  We just rise to the bait, every time.

Comment #10: Amanda Marcotte  on  08/23  at  11:05 AM

The summer heat isn’t so easy to avoid if you walk a half mile to and from work at 7:00am, when it’s already 80 degrees and 80% humdity.  Just saying.

But I’d still take it over New York any day.

And Rick Perry is a fucking clown.  Your strategy reminds me of Richard Dawkins’s refusal to debate with creationists.  Arguing their stupid point gives them credibility they don’t deserve.  Good work, as usual.

Comment #11: StellaTex  on  08/23  at  11:09 AM

I’m not saying you’re wrong here, Amanda, but I can’t help but be really disheartened at the idea that “if you’re explaining, you’re losing.”

This is an important point in your political/emotional development where you learn to accept that politics is not about an intellectual discussion around the Algonquin Rountable where we discuss the issues of the day and explain our facts, but rather a fight between two separate ideological visions and a struggle for power. Welcome.

Comment #12: Tyro  on  08/23  at  11:13 AM

I like the raised brow, followed by “You know as well as I do that isn’t true”, followed by “Obama slated all this money for… and their GOP Govs turned it down….”
And yeah, comparetively, the jobs market here in MA is doing well; but it is not sable or comfortable for most people, so spending on anything not absolutely needed is down.  Tourism is okay, but mostly local (people are staying closer to home and spending more closer to home as a result - e.g. fly somewhere for a 5-day vacation vs buy a beach pass with parking at the state park for the summer is tipping well towards the beach this year, seemingly even more than last).

Comment #13: helen w. h.  on  08/23  at  11:16 AM

How about this retort: “If Governor Perry is going to take credit for a ‘miracle’ in which he has no direct involvement, he should also take full responsibility for the drought in Texas”

I’m not happy about having to resort to a soundbite but I’ve been the policy wonk who tries the 10-minute detailed explanation only to realize that most listeners start daydreaming after the 30-second mark.

Comment #14: Dan2108  on  08/23  at  11:41 AM

I have to quibble with one point: In Southern California, you don’t really need air conditioning any time of the year except for 2 weeks or so in July, and then that’s because the temperatures reach the mid 80s and you’re on the top floor of your apartment building. Also, you can travel outside the city and don’t have to worry about getting beaten up by Homophobic rednecks.

/loves_California>
/grew_up_in_Oklahoma>
/has_spent_a_HUGE_amount_of_time_in_Texas>

Comment #15: Ross Lincoln  on  08/23  at  12:14 PM

Most people trust Democrats more on these issues than Republicans, and only vote for Republicans out of a desperate sense that since the Democrat isn’t working, then they’ll take their chances with the new guy, even if they’re less trusting of the new guy’s message.

That’s one of the most painful realities of presidential politics in America. The 20% of voters in the mushy middle that tends to swing their vote most often is both the most powerful and the least informed constituency out there.

If the economy sucks (which clearly it does right now), the swing voters will almost always come down hardest on the sitting president, regardless of that president’s party. Pretty much every presidential election in my lifetime could be linked to the economic conditions at the time of the election. The economy in 1980 under Carter and 1992 under Bush41 were awful, and in both cases the electorate responded to the situation by giving the incumbent presidents the boot. It doesn’t really matter whether or not the sitting president actually deserves the most blame for a crappy economy at any given time, they will get that blame, fair or not.

The ugly truth is this… if unemployment is still above 8% on November 6, 2012, President Obama will lose the election to the Republican nominee, regardless of who that candidate is or how awful their agenda might be. Low information swing voters will believe that anything other than maintaining the status quo is worth the risk rather than re-electing the president who was unable to solve the unemployment crisis. As for President Obama’s base, if we’re still above 8% unemployment on Election Day, look for a big chunk of that base to do what they did in 2010, which was not voting at all.

It doesn’t matter how awful Perry, Romney, or Bachmann would be in the White House, and it doesn’t matter that all of us here know that for a fact. Every presidential election involving an incumbent is first and foremost a referendum on the job done by that incumbent president. And the number one gauge people use to determine whether or not that incumbent deserves another four years is the state of the economy.

“It’s the economy, stupid.”

The outcome of every incumbent presidential election in my lifetime has been correlated to unemployment on Election Day compared to unemployment on the day the incumbent first took office. Across the board, every president who saw the unemployment numbers improve over the course of their first term got re-elected. At the same time, every president who saw those numbers get worse over the course of their first term has been defeated.

Regardless of how much we want to pretend that this isn’t happening, President Obama’s re-election is in serious jeopardy if we don’t see some solid improvement in the jobs department. And the low-information mushy middle voters will have no problem casting their vote for the Republican if they feel that President Obama is incapable of resolving the jobs crisis. The solution would assuredly wind up being a lot more toxic to our country’s economic health than the perceived problem of Obama’s ineffectiveness, but unfortunately, the mushy middle doesn’t recognize that fact.

Something’s got to give at some point, because President Obama’s trajectory is not looking very good right now. It’s dawning on me that there really is an increasingly likely chance that Obama will lose next November, and that his re-election bid is far from guaranteed to succeed.

Comment #16: DTGslu2K  on  08/23  at  12:31 PM

No post about Trevino is compelte without a link to this:

http://sadlyno.com/wordpress/uploads/2007/01/tackyhelmet.jpg

Comment #17: rea  on  08/23  at  12:41 PM

Ross, unless you live in the san fernando valley…

Comment #18: chareth cutestory  on  08/23  at  12:58 PM

@17

Quite right. It may seem obvious to us, even those of us who don’t particularly care for Obama, that he’s a million times better than Bachmann or Perry. We’ve seen Bachmann spouting naked stupidity about the economy, and we’ve seen Perry claiming that Bernanke should be violently assaulted for doing his job. But it should not be underestimated how much the fence-sitting swing voters are not paying attention to any of this.

Comment #19: Triplanetary  on  08/23  at  01:04 PM

Tourism is okay, but mostly local

Here in CA, they call it a staycation, most people went to the rivers instead of going to the coast to cool off.

CC, word:

The temperature difference is most dramatic nearer the coast. For example, the average daily high in San Francisco in July and August is 72 °F (22 °C), and in Walnut Creek, some 20 miles (32 km) inland, the average daily high in July and August is 87 °F (31 °C)

I’ve lived in San Diego when they had one of their infrequent heat waves in the summer, and most people don’t have air conditioning there, because they don’t need it much of the time.

Comment #20: Dark Avenger Guardian Chow Mein  on  08/23  at  01:28 PM

The staycation is a marketing gimmick, that I first heard maybe 2 years ago, and it’s being used here, too.  But the phenom is real.
I have to add that NH at #4 (I think, may be 5) has a huge population that works in MA, probably bumping up the MA jobs totals, rather than MA residents who have jobs totals.  I’m on I-495, I-93 and I-95/128 with these folks 5 days a week (though the people dodging the excise tax no doubt causes some of the high % of NH plates on the roads during the commute).

Comment #21: helen w. h.  on  08/23  at  01:45 PM

People need to get over the weather, especially a little snow. When Arizona runs out of water, you’re all going to have to move to Muskegon anyway. Might as well beat the rush. You just ahve to learn not to make any sudden moves with your car and wear lots of sweaters. Most poeple look good in sweaters.

Should we try:
The Texas Miracle is when you find a job there that pays a living wage.

Comment #22: witless chum  on  08/23  at  02:29 PM

The Texas Miracle - First rate food, second rate TV, and Third World jobs…

Comment #23: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  08/23  at  02:52 PM

@Comment #11: Amanda Marcotte on 08/23 at 11:05 AM

Stop letting them frame the discussion.

Zif has a good strategy.  When someone starts talking up Texas say, “Gosh, Obama has slated all this money for Ohio, Wisconsin, and Florida, and their governors turned it down.  They’re willing to destroy their own states to make him look bad.  Isn’t that terrible?!”  Make them talk about what you want to talk about.  That’s what the right is so good at and we suck at.  We just rise to the bait, every time.

I have to concur with this. James Carville and Paul Begala made a similar point in, “Buck Up, Suck Up, and Come Back When You Foul Up”. You don’t want to explain anything on video, you want to shift discussion back to your point. If this leads to a kind of verbal wrestling, then that is what you must do, and you must win.

Comment #24: atheist  on  08/23  at  03:18 PM

All your efforts would be better spent focusing on what Obama has accomplished ...

OK, this is going to sound like snark, but believe me, it really isn’t. It’s an opportunity. I’m really going to ask a sincere question, which is:

What has Obama accomplished?

Every time there is criticism of Obama in the blogosphere, some commenter will say something like, but you won’t give him credit for his many accomplishments. I voted for him in 2008, more or less enthusiastically. And I just don’t see much of anything good has come out of it.

So, like in simple, declarative statements, like a bulleted list, maybe a fact sheet of some kind? And without calling me a firebagger. Or, I’m fine with being called a firebagger even, as long as I get the other, or get pointed to where I can find it.

Comment #25: TiminIowa  on  08/23  at  03:40 PM

I have a question for the Texan Pandagonians, is it true Rick Perry got a lot of support from hispanics in his elections, or at least a lot more than Republicans usually get? And does that mean he’s for immigration reform? If so I see that being used against him as a bludgeon in the primary.

Comment #26: Ben D.  on  08/23  at  03:57 PM

So, like in simple, declarative statements, like a bulleted list, maybe a fact sheet of some kind?

I have what you’re looking for right here: http://www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

 

Comment #27: Ben D.  on  08/23  at  04:00 PM

Here’s yet another reason why Rick Perry makes Dubya look like a moderate centrist by comparison:

No governor of any state at any time in American history has signed off on more death sentences than Rick Perry. Not even Dubya.

Comment #28: DTGslu2K  on  08/23  at  04:21 PM

Good point, @chareth cutestory. I live Echo Park. but I’ve done my time in the valley. It does get hot there, but nothing like HOLY HELL Oklahoma summer.

Comment #29: Ross Lincoln  on  08/23  at  04:44 PM

Alex, it’s obviously a reference to living in the Beach Cities in Southern California.  Temperatures in Santa Monica, Manhattan, Hermosa, Redondo, Long Beach, Seal Beach, Huntington, Newport, and all the way down to San Clemente, rarely break 80 except for a few weeks during July and August.

Go just a mile or two inland from the beaches, however, and it gets nearly as hot as the Valley, especially in the maze of concrete that is West Los Angeles or El Segundo in LA County, and Westminster or Santa Ana in Orange County.

Comment #30: Rachel Tyrel  on  08/23  at  08:07 PM

I am shocked that the fucken pinhead is actually wearing doucheknocker glasses like that. This is the first time I ever saw anyone other than the models in the pictures in the LensCrafters posters wearing them.

Comment #31: PhysioProf  on  08/23  at  09:28 PM

Trevino is one of the worst human beings on earth.  He knows he’s hurting people, he knows he’s (personally) very weak, and he just plain gets off on it.

Comment #32: Punditus Maximus  on  08/23  at  11:24 PM

Anyways, one of the (tiny) benefits of Obama’s embracing Reaganomics is my lack of worry over Bachmann winning the football.  We’re gonna have a shitty President and Republican policies.  We’re just arguing over details.

Comment #33: Punditus Maximus  on  08/23  at  11:25 PM

This electoral analysis assumes facts not in evidence - namely that “swing voters” are more prevalent in “swing districts.” 

AFAIK this is false.  Think about it - if 80% of a disctricts voters are hardcore Republicans, and 20% are swing voters, this district is indeed never going to swing for Obama.  However, the district is still a better target for campaigning than a district that’s 45% hardcore Democrats and 45% hardcore Republicans. 

The marginal voter matters in any swing state, regardless of the makeup of his or her district.

Comment #34: Ape Man  on  08/24  at  01:11 PM

“Anyways, one of the (tiny) benefits of Obama’s embracing Reaganomics is my lack of worry over Bachmann winning the football.”

Unfortunately there isn’t a great deal of difference between Democratic and Republican policies when it comes to macroeconomics.  Neither party is run by people who understand the macroeconomy, so bad policies are inevitable.

However, that’s no reason to be complacent about a Republican, especially an outlandishly frightening one such as Perry or Bachmann.  If the President wants to invade Syria, or Saudi Arabia, or Libya, or wherever, he or she can do it easily.  And Republicans love invasions.

Comment #35: Ape Man  on  08/24  at  01:52 PM

@39

All of this. I’m getting tired of the whole liberal debate over Obama, because it’s hard to find balance. Yes, he’s a shitty economic leader. Yes, he’s a million times better than any Republican. These things can both be true.

I just don’t care about the whole argument anymore. Although liberals who still personally identify as Democrats, rather than just voting for Democrats in order to vote against the GOP, confound the fuck out of me. But that’s their business.

Comment #36: Triplanetary  on  08/24  at  01:59 PM

People need to get over the weather, especially a little snow. When Arizona runs out of water, you’re all going to have to move to Muskegon anyway. Might as well beat the rush. You just ahve to learn not to make any sudden moves with your car and wear lots of sweaters. Most poeple look good in sweaters.

Glad to see that I’m not the only one who feels this way.

Comment #37: Linnaeus  on  08/24  at  04:35 PM
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