even those of us who’ve been deep in the political shit for a long time now can still have our breath taken away by how vicious wingnuts are, how sadistic, and how much they absolutely love ruining the lives of people guilty of disagreeing with them.

That pretty much covers my reaction.

i hope those children, their parents, and the school administration all become a huge financial liability to the school district, and that they get sued personally as well, to the point of bankruptcy. it worked for the white supremacists, maybe the point will get across to them as well.

personally, i love people like that, they are absolutely low-hanging fruit. but then, i’m a lot older and nastier than ms. hussain, and don’t suffer idiots or fanatics at all. i’ve taught my children not to either.

Did any of the kids or their parents dress up as pimps or telephone repair people to get the goods on this crypto-IslamoFascist ultra-Leftist infil-Traitor?  If James O’Keefe, brave crusading reporter, had been involved, they would have shutdown this disgrace to American culture even sooner!

Let this be a warning!  We’re coming after you, socialist, non-Christian, Jesus-hating, Evilution-believing teachers!...

(I remember all too well a couple of teachers - yes, both science teachers, weird, one the replacement for the other - getting unmercifully harassed.  And yes, this was Junior High too.  But my experience was back in ‘74 or so.  I feel bad for the lady…)

I read the first sentence and was sure that this happened somewhere in West Bumblefuck, NC… imagine my surprise when I click on the article and find that it happened in the supposedly progressive Triangle! As a non-Christian Raleigh resident, I’m really disturbed now.

Honestly, what do people expect from fucking stupid hillbilly rednecks? It’s why I left Tennessee. When someone (who I didn’t know) knocked on my door on Sunday afternoon to ask why I wasn’t in church that morning, I knew it was time to get the fuck out, even though I was born there.

If I was Ms. Hussain, I would sue for everything I could get & then get the hell out of there & never look back. If they want to be stupid, let them. Fucking hillbillies.

During her first or second (out of four so far) year of teaching, my wife got an email from a parent along the lines of “It says on your website you’re a Christian, I just know this means you won’t teach that evolution nonsense.”  But then, my wife is awesome, and has had the backing of the district when parents get like that.

One thing that stories from my wife, mother, and sister (all of them public school teachers!) have made me wonder, is if ideology/religion is the real issue, or if the problem is that she’s forced the little darlings to work and to think.  That seems to drive more parent/teacher conflicts than anything else…

Mark—wait, what was their excuse for not being in church?

Both/and blog, Scott.  Both/and.

As far as the kids are concerned I think this is really a “how can we piss off the teacher” situation. This particular avenue of harassment has the additional benefit of parental support for their (the students) “religious” expression. Disrupting the classroom is just plain old fashioned hooliganism whether you sing hymns or the Ramones. Personally I prefer the latter but there’s no accounting for taste I guess.

Yeah, this teacher probably let it get the better of her, but of course, how much do they pay teachers in NC? I bet you a million bucks it’s not much, which means you’re not going to attract experienced/savvy/self-confident teachers.

Workplace bullying is a serious issue, and bullying-by-child-proxy is worse, because you’re instilling bad values in the child too. I wish these idiots would just homeschool their progeny instead of using them as ways to disrupt everyone elses’ education too. Every kid in that class lost out on valuable learning time because of this nonsense.

This kind of crap seems to happen all the time. Small-town kids and parents looking for someone to abuse to put some kind of excitement into their lives. I just wish it happened a hell of a lot more rarely and with better results for the people getting abused…

So glad I live in new york.

They do not accept that non-believers are fully human and deserve respect.  Respect is only the right of Christians towards other Christians.  Everyone else should either accept their religion or be non entities. Therefore they don’t think their bullying of this teacher is wrong.  In fact they all believe they are saving her.

Mighty Ponygirl,

LOL, It was actually in the afternoon. They have to be out of church in time for football, you know.

And yet the teacher who invited a totally inappropriate anti-Muslim, proselytizing speaker to his class, got only a reprimand, suspension with pay for 90 days, and got reassigned to a different school.

Yeah, she shouldn’t have had the negative conversations on a public Facebook page.  But it’s really clear she’s not getting disciplined for that, but for being insufficiently pro-Christian.

But tenure for school teachers would be evil.  Or something….

Junior high kids are little shits.  It’s a rough age—they’re all hormonal and squirrel-y and not quite kids but still not quite young adults yet either.  And they seem to take a special kind of pleasure in making everyone around them as miserable as they seem to be, and teachers (particularly young, relatively inexperienced teachers or subs—I was a sub for 7 years and learned very quickly how to deal with disruptive students) are prime targets. 

So that the kids were acting like that isn’t really surprising to me, but that the parents encouraged it isn’t all that surprising either.  I feel for Ms. Hussain and I hope she can sue the pants off the district and every single parent involved.

Yeah, this teacher probably let it get the better of her, but of course, how much do they pay teachers in NC? I bet you a million bucks it’s not much, which means you’re not going to attract experienced/savvy/self-confident teachers.

I live in Ohio, where we have both an excess of young teachers AND a teacher shortage (your guess is as good as mine) so lots of my friends who got education degrees ended up in N.C., and the vast majority of the flocked right back up to Ohio within 3 years and a significant fraction of them decided that was enough teaching for them, thank you.  My impression is that North Carolina was going out of its way to recruit young teachers from out of state, and a few years later my impression was that there was a reason they had to do that, and that they were OK with that kind of teacher turnover.  All I know is any warm place that can make moving back to Cleveland seem reasonable is doing something horribly wrong.

Phil Zombi comment #9: Suicidal Tendencies I Saw Your Mommy and Your Mommys Dead only with Ms. Hussian singing to her students. Perhaps Ms.Hussian* should contact the ACLU?

*I wouldn’t be surprised if her last name made her an easier target. I tired of people saying Oh no Real Christian(s) would act like that! Well I believe these intolerant fuckbags are the face of Christianity now, I’m sick of them.

emjaybee, it’s not much.  I think it starts around 25k.  I had some awesome experienced/savvy/self-confident teachers in public school in Raleigh—but they were the ones who truly had a passion for teaching, and were willing to do it even though they got paid peanuts.  Teachers shouldn’t have to be freaking Mother Teresa, though, you know?

My eighth grade science teacher bent over backwards to plaster her evolution lessons with disclaimers and apologies.  She repeated every day that this was not about what anyone believed, it was just that we had to know this even if we didn’t believe in it, and that we should not be able to tell what she believed.  It made me sad. I don’t think I would be able to be that deferential about it, and I’d probably get myself fired too. 

I seriously considered teaching middle school science in Charlotte for a while. They needed good middle school science teachers so badly that they were willing to write me a $5000 bonus check on the spot if I signed a contract, even though I didn’t have a teaching certificate or any education experience—just a B.S. in physics. I’m kind of glad I didn’t, because of this, and that’s sad. I think I would have enjoyed teaching the science; I just would have been driven crazy by the anti-science politics.

I know someone that this happened to - not this exactly but pretty much what you are describing happening to young teachers once the students smell blood - at the University level.  He was a TA, and he lost control of his class because right wing students smelled his ideology during classroom discussions over literature, and attacked him.  He had no idea how to handle it.  They became more brazen, began openly mocking him, gave him poor reviews, and he ended up having his class monitored.  I think it was a large part of his decision not to pursue an academic career.  He definitely was not cut out for it.  Right wingers at all ages are like sharks and they seek out the weak.  That weakness may be some very small flaw that you have,  and it doesn’t even mean you are a weak person in general, but if they sniff it, they attack.

Honestly, what do people expect from fucking stupid hillbilly rednecks? It’s why I left Tennessee. When someone (who I didn’t know) knocked on my door on Sunday afternoon to ask why I wasn’t in church that morning, I knew it was time to get the fuck out, even though I was born there.
If I was Ms. Hussain, I would sue for everything I could get & then get the hell out of there & never look back. If they want to be stupid, let them. Fucking hillbillies.

I am not sure exactly WHY, but this kind of comment seems really unhelpful and wrong-headed to me. During segregation, would your advice have been that every black person in the south should just move to the north? Do you really think that every more-or-less living-in-the-21st-century person in the south should move to the north NOW? REALLY?

Because if that isn’t your “solution”, I think you should re-evaluate your response. What you are doing is just MORE victim-blaming, as well as NOT advocating that people fight for their rights; instead, according to you, they should just RUN AWAY like yellow cowards. (Then you would probably upbraid them for their cowardice!)

Besides Ms. Hussein, the people I feel sorry for are any kids in her classes that actually wanted to learn, which gets really damn difficult when you share a classroom with a bunch of kids acting like jerkoffs and being allowed to get away with it.

This should have been dealt with long before it got to the point of this teacher having to vent on her Myspace page via the principal dragging the misbehaving douchebags and their pro-douchebaggery parents into the office and explaining that if they’re that opposed to actually learning anything, he’ll gladly expel them and let them stay stupid at home.

they needed good middle school science teachers so badly that they were willing to write me a $5000 bonus check on the spot if I signed a contract, even though I didn’t have a teaching certificate or any education experience—just a B.S. in physics. I’m kind of glad I didn’t, because of this, and that’s sad. I think I would have enjoyed teaching the science; I just would have been driven crazy by the anti-science politics.

This is part of the problem we have in education in the US. Would you go to a hospital that had a doctor shortage and was willing to hire anyone who had passed an anatomy class no matter whether they had ever gone to medical school? Of course you wouldn’t. Yet we are perfectly willing to allow school districts to hire large numbers of teachers who have no actual training in teaching and turn them loose in the classroom.

While there are some people who are natural born teachers, most people do need some training in things like developmental psychology and classroom management because you aren’t teaching them anything if you lose control of the classroom. And even the natural born teachers are better become better teachers when they get training. There are problems with the way colleges of education do teacher ed and I think there should be alternative pathways to entry into teaching, those alternative pathways should involve some serious training for the job.

*I wouldn’t be surprised if her last name made her an easier target. I tired of people saying Oh no Real Christian(s) would act like that! Well I believe these intolerant fuckbags are the face of Christianity now, I’m sick of them.

#19 pitbullgirl65

I imagine her name made it easier for the parents to believe that she was some sort of evil, Darwinian, hell-beast persecuting their poor, innocent, god-fearing children. Won’t somebody please think of the children?! (sorry couldn’t help myself)

Honestly, what do people expect from fucking stupid hillbilly rednecks?

Mark, these aren’t hillbillies. These are residents of one of the most educated metropolitan areas in America - second behind Seattle last time I checked. Not only that, but they probably aren’t even Southerners by birth. A fairly large percentage of Raleigh-Durham residents grew up north of the Potomac - so much so that we often joke that Cary (a town that borders Apex and Raleigh) is an acronym for “Collection Area for Relocated Yankees.”

And what’s more, Wake County is often cited as one of the best school systems in the country. So if stuff like this happens in Wake Co., where the schools are great and the residents well-educated, imagine what’s going on in the rest of the country…

“They do not accept that non-believers are fully human and deserve respect.  Respect is only the right of Christians towards other Christians.”

Not quite, or you know different Christians than I do. Allowing for the disclaimer that there actually are Christians out there who follow their faith and are decent to others (usually keeping their faith private), the truth is that actual respect of anyone doesn’t factor into it, and lip service regarding respect is only the right of Christians about other Christians, when speaking to (real or perceived) non-Christians. Among themselves, they make piranhas look tolerant in their rush to eat each other alive.

In related news, if you value your life, do not stand in a Catholic parking lot when Mass lets you. They will run your ass over.

Besides Ms. Hussein, the people I feel sorry for are any kids in her classes that actually wanted to learn, which gets really damn difficult when you share a classroom with a bunch of kids acting like jerkoffs and being allowed to get away with it.

Having been one of those kids in middle school, I can tell you they are just as much the targets as the teacher.  They threaten the herd, I guess.  When you get a little older, it gets easier, though as Angl noted, the right wing is bent on turning every single follower into a bully who hasn’t matured past age 13.

Umm when Mass lets out.

I’m of two minds about the fact that this was discovered online, on a personal Facebook page (and I doubt very much any of the students or parents are her friends, so some level of snooping was involved.) Part of me says “hey, it’s the internet,” and realizes that you shouldn’t expect things you post there to remain private when push comes to shove.

That said, the rest of me is angry that personal posts on facebook (what amounts to an online “diary” for a lot of people) are considered to be valid grounds for punishment nowadays, even when they don’t contain anything more serious than some caustic, negative humor. (Maybe someone in the administration should have simply taken her aside and suggested she talk to a counselor or a more experienced teacher to deal with her stress in a positive way. If she’d written something worse, threats about the kids or parents for example, that would require another level of response.) The idea that “it’s the internet” doesn’t quite do it for me any more, especially considering how much of our lives are now conducted online. Where else are people supposed to vent and chat and ruminate ? I’ve come to feel that hunting for personal posts on facebook is akin to peeping in your neighbor’s window: if you run around telling people that you saw them in their underwear, it reflects badly on you, not them. (Once more, I’ll qualify this by saying that if someone posts something truly threatening or violent, it’s a whole new ballgame.)

I still keep most of my things private online, for the sad and obvious fact that you can never be sure who is reading what. But I dislike the idea that the internet is only for exhibitionism or exposure. It’s a lot of different things to different people, and we need to find a way to talk about “online privacy” that isn’t about credit card numbers.

I really sympathize with Melissa Hussain.

#27, #29 Lymis

My wife jokes about that all the time, except it was; Catholics, start your engines!

You know, there are times that I hope that Christianity really is the One, Real, True Religion.  If it is, people like this are in for a nasty surprise.  And hey, according to that same passage, atheists and other heathens of the sort that hang out on this site have nothing to worry about.  So, bonus there. 

I know I ask this every time something like this comes up, but have any of these people ever read their Bible?  Ever?

“Because if that isn’t your “solution”, I think you should re-evaluate your response. What you are doing is just MORE victim-blaming, as well as NOT advocating that people fight for their rights; instead, according to you, they should just RUN AWAY like yellow cowards. (Then you would probably upbraid them for their cowardice!)”

My “advice” is to get the fuck away from people who WANT to be stupid because it worked for me. I thought this was an issue of people not wanting to be educated and not a racial situation. If someone were to leave a bad situation for a better one, I would not consider that cowardice.

OK, in fairness, the middle school in question was pulling more from the Swift Creek area than from Apex, and Swift Creek is one of the most conservative areas in Raleigh. Still, though, Swift Creek residents are hardly ignorant hillbillies for the most part.

@ Seraph #32: No.

Seraph, thank you so much for your link.

I firmly believe that the true essence of Christianity is not John 3:16 but Matthew 25:40.

Sometimes I imagine the Incarnation going something like this: “Father, if you don’t start treating them better, I’m going to go down and be born as one of them!  Then, whatever you do to them, you’ll be doing to me!”

“I don’t defend what the kids were doing,” said Murray Inman, a parent of one of Hussain’s students. “I just couldn’t imagine an educator, or a group of educators, engaging in this kind of dialogue about kids.”

Oh, the willful blindness of some parents, who simply cannot believe that their widdle pweshus baybee is anything but wonderful and brilliant and perfect in every single way.  News flash, Mr. Inman: Educators DO talk about kids like this.  At length.  Wanna know why?  It’s because they see your kids’ REAL faces, the ones they show to the world when Mommy and Daddy aren’t watching.  They know that your perfect angels are actually vicious, self-centered little shits who know that if they get in trouble, all they have to do is whine to their doting parents about “that meeeean teacher!” and Mommy and Daddy will rush to their defense without even considering that Widdle Pweshus could be at fault. 

Here’s what I’d like to know: Why is it “free speech” for these little bastards to sing hymns in biology class and leave religious materials on their teacher’s desk in a blatant display of harassment, but when she vents on Facebook SHE’S the one who gets punished?

other_orange @ 30:

I’ve come to feel that hunting for personal posts on facebook is akin to peeping in your neighbor’s window: if you run around telling people that you saw them in their underwear, it reflects badly on you, not them.

I’d agree, except these days if some kid goes peeping in your window and sees you in your undies, you can be charged as a sex offender for corrupting an innocent chyyulld.

Sociopaths begetting sociopaths. Lovely.

#27, #31: When I was a kid my folks and I joked about playing “beat the Baptists” to see if we could get to the family restaurant near our (Presbyterian) church after Sunday service before the much, much bigger Baptist church down the street let out.

The comments at http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7041186/ make clear that a lot of people (including some on Ms. Hussein’s side) assume she’s Muslim.

Quite a few also claim that “witnessing for Christ” is appropriate under any and all circumstances (1), including disrupting a public school class. (But I bet those “Christian” schools would never put up with this sort of crap.) A few of these overlap with the comments insisting that Christians are oppressed because they’re expected to act as if other religions have as much right to exist as theirs does.

(1) How does that work for them?
-Here’s your mail, sir.
-In the name of Jesus!!!, save this wretched letter-carrier from his sins!

went to a funeral for a former neighbor a couple months ago. Funeral was held in a small country church in western Virginia.  Several people stopped, stared, and pointed at my bumper sticker “Jesus is a Liberal.  Matt: 25: 31-46”  I love getting that reaction..

they should just RUN AWAY like yellow cowards

Seriously? Yellow Cowards? Seriously?

Maybe she simple refused to say one way or another.  It really isn’t anyone’s business. 

When I was subbing, I got a reputation for being gay.  Because I would not tolerate hateful, homophobic language in the classroom and when I would call the kids on it, they’d ask if I’m gay, and then I’d refuse to answer the question.  Instead I’d ask them, “does it matter?”  But because my orientation isn’t the business of some kids I don’t know and I wouldn’t answer that, it was automatically assumed that I must be a big giant lesbian.  However, if asked, I’m always open about my atheism and willing to have a conversation about it with relatively mature students so long as class time isn’t being infringed on.

Woodrowfan # 42: FTW. Jesus was a huge bleeding heart liberal. I’ve also heard somewhere that he patterned his life and teachings after Shakyamuni Buddha. HORRORS!!!

Here’s the best case scenario:

Hussein sues the school district, and wins. She gets awarded some some of money, gets her job back, something.

Some dumbass GOP politician introduces a bill into state/county/school district assembly, to raise property taxes on all non-owner occupied properties, thus insulating the actual criminals from paying for their crime.

People like me who are trying to hang onto a stupid piece-of-shit house where it might be warmer when they retire get it jammed up their ass because we can’t vote the criminal terrorists out.

I know points two and three from personal experience.

I get so heartsick at the way these christianist assholes have taken over Christianity that I just consider leaving.  In my tradition (UCC) the bible doesn’t have that much authority.  It is given equal weight with reason (and science), personal experience, and tradition.  When one of the people says to me, “But the bible says,” I can say, “I don’t care, because scientific research says.”  In the 1800’s, we, and the Presbyterians and Episcopalians started hundreds of colleges dedicated to medicine, engineering, and research.  There was no conflict with faith.  Just try to get one of our representatives on CNN to speak for reasonable faith.  They will only allow religious right nutcases on to speak.  Such willfully ignorant and hateful people.

I’m usually against corporal punishment, especially on kids. But I would make an exception for these little shits.

There is a big difference between maliciously trashing one´s 8th-grade students on Facebook, on the one hand, and posting true accounts of religiously-motivated harrassment while not deleting friend´s derisive assessments of that behavior in a comment forum, on the other hand. So I am with the commenters who say sue the school, parents and students, pocket as much as possible, and flee to a less cretinous part of the USA.

To Tom Winter at comment 24: What kind of training would prepare a teacher for this sort of extreme situation? (It seems to me that if she refused to discuss religion in class and asked students to do their class assignments rather than read Bibles during class time, then she was acting correctly). Also, the USA has a shortage of science teachers, and I would like to see the balance shift more towards expecting a bunch of f-cking adolescent brats to behave themselves and not harrass their teachers with their religious crap, and away from burdening science graduates willing to share their knowledge of biology, chemistry and physics. Also, it seems evident that the training this school would have offered would be: “Dear science teachers: You must either openly embrace Christian norms here or tolerate the resulting harrassment, becuase we´re on the side of the hicks.”

Or come flee to Europe. Please. We have a dire shortage of secondary-school science teachers here, too, and a delightful shortage of religious cretinism as well!

jackspratt @ #47, no offense meant, but “the bible has equal standing with reason (and science)” is NOT a point in favor of the UCC. It’s a moderate improvement, but still atrocious.

There’s an obvious question, and it always bothers me that it is rarely answered in reports on this kind of thing. Was her facebook page public? Or was she facebook-friends with anyone involved, like the principal or any of the parents of her students?

If her facebook page was private, then it must have taken some snooping to see it, and I don’t think she should be punished for what she posts in a private space unless it contains serious threats of violence, maybe. On the other hand, if her page was completely public and under her real name so that any of her students could easily see it without doing anything illicit, then she shouldn’t post about them.

Yeah, this teacher probably let it get the better of her, but of course, how much do they pay teachers in NC? I bet you a million bucks it’s not much, which means you’re not going to attract experienced/savvy/self-confident teachers…

Comment #10: emjaybee on 02/16 at 11:22 AM

ALmost nowehere attracts experienced, savvy teachers, because they cost more.  The strategy for ed majors is to get all BUT that last class or two you need for an M.A. get your job (or sometimes even get tenure) and then complete the courses.  Otherwise, you will have a 10x harder time getting a job.  Add experience to an advanced degree and you are truly screwed.  Of course, this is the case for DOE’s/districts that are unionized.

“But Annette Balint, whose daughter is in Hussain’s class, said the students have the right to wear those shirts and sing “Jesus Loves Me,” a long-time Sunday School staple.”

But if it were non-xtian shirts and non-xtian sunday school songs, it would be wrong and disruptive and how dare they!

++

“Or come flee to Europe. Please. We have a dire shortage of secondary-school science teachers here, too, and a delightful shortage of religious cretinism as well! “

As someone just about to complete her M.A. in Physics, this made me all tingly and happy to read. I mean, I had NO intention of becoming a teach in the United States of Stupidity, but Europe . . . . . hmmmmmm

To Terra at comment 52: Even if the facebook page is public, why can´t she post a fair account of what her students did, and then why would she be obligated to delete the invective other commenters would use to describe such behavior? As long as she is not unfair or untruthful (and I guess since they are minors as long as she does not name any names), why should students be shielded from such observations about their behavior?

I know I ask this every time something like this comes up, but have any of these people ever read their Bible?  Ever?

No.

and that includes the kids who were “reading” the Bible in class.

Jesus is pretty damn clear about not proselytizing, about treating people with respect, about helping the poor, sick and IMPRISONED, and about people who wear their religion on their sleeves having already received their rewards.

If they want to be stupid, let them. Fucking hillbillies.

Yeah, and America’s excuse for a left has let that serve as its final word on the subject for, what, fifty years now? Eighty? And look where it’s got us. But, hey, why stop now, when it’s working so well?

To Gypsy Lee at comment 54: Physics is the most-needed and most-sought after subject for secondary school teachers in the greater London area. I believe the situation is the same in many other European cities, i.e., that Physics is the rarest and most desired subject. Non-EU citizens should have little difficulty getting residence permits to teach secondary school Physics.

@55—I guess I meant to say that if her page was public, she shouldn’t be surprised that people saw it, and whether or not she should face consequences for it is less clear to me. I do think its clear that if it was private, there should not have been any consequences for her (maybe a punishment for whoever snooped).

Assuming it was public, without knowing what exactly she posted, its hard for me to say. I guess the question is what would happen to her if she said those exact same things in some other situation that was equally public, like at a school assembly or in a newspaper article/interview? Did she say things that were well enough thought out to be appropriate to say in front of the whole school? If so, then she shouldn’t be in trouble. (I agree she shouldn’t be punished for her friends comments anymore than she should if she said something at an assembly and someone else yelled a response out from the crowd).

It just bugs me in general that articles about people getting in trouble for what they posted on facebook never explain what privacy settings they had, and I think its an important point. I don’t care so much about facebook vs non-facebook, but there’s a difference between things posted publicly on the internet and things posted privately that are only viewable to a select list of people. Its the difference between publishing your complaints in the newspaper under your real name; and complaining to your friends at a party where you know everyone. Sure, someone could record it and put it on TV if they wanted to, but it would be sneaky and unexpected.

Yeah, and America’s excuse for a left has let that serve as its final word on the subject for, what, fifty years now?  Eighty?

No more than five.  See Kitzmiller v. Dover.

I’m usually against corporal punishment, especially on kids. But I would make an exception for these little shits.

And give them an excuse to pretend to be martyrs?  I don’t think so.  I know you’re only joking, but corporal punishment never achieves what you want, especially with arrogant kids like these.  I’d prefer that we don’t even joke about this.

Schools are prisons.  Even for the teachers.

That said, we should Federalize the school district on some pretense.

Seraph, the necessity of Kitzmiller v. Dover is one of the results of the abandonment I’m referring to, not one of its causes.

It’s breaking my heart that I am seriously considering taking a job I never planned to take, and leaving a country I never planned to leave permanently…but yes, any inside info on teaching in Europe would be a boon. 

I’ve been chased out of my chosen profession; I’m being chased out of my mass-transit, city-living lifestyle; and now I see that I would be chased out of the teaching profession so long as I remain in the U.S.

It might be nice to live somewhere that doesn’t hate me.

Aaron @66 - I was using it as an example of the Left not just saying “If they want to be stupid, let them.”

#59 - I second #67.  I would sell my right arm to live in London and finding out they need people with my educational focus is sublime.  I know what I’ll be googling all afternoon!

Sneering condescension towards ignorant beliefs worked pretty well from abolition to getting women the vote to desegregation.  Only in the past 30 years, when we’re instructed to look at wingnuts as the real face of heartland America and people who are more moral than we are have they really gotten the upper hand.

Watch the whole living expenses thing with London.

Most places that have severe droughts of quality teachers have them for a reason.

One a more positive note on what an evolution believin’ (no really, check out her papers) science teacher can do…

“what would happen to her if she said those exact same things in some other situation that was equally public, like at a school assembly or in a newspaper article/interview?”

I have an issue with that, because in either of those situations she is acting in an official capacity AS a teacher, not merely being a person who IS a teacher. A more applicable example would be what if she said exactly the same things at a restaurant with some interested parties happening to sit at the table next to her and recording it? Still in public, but far more clearly acting as a private individual.

Sneering condescension? How about ‘education’, maybe. Sneering condescension doesn’t accomplish anything in my experience but to harden people’s attitudes and opinions, and I’d be delighted (if surprised) to see it demonstrated that this wasn’t and isn’t the case.

@Terra and @Lymis

Yeah, this is exactly the online grey-area stuff that I was talking about. It’s hard to make distinctions between real-life/public/private and online/public/private because of the pretty widespread assumption that if you say it online, it’s fair game.

Lymis, I like your comparison to a private conversation being taped, because that’s what facebook is, whether your settings are public or private or somewhere inbetween- facebook does not have the most subtle privacy controls in the world, and they constantly change them, so I’d still rather err on the side of people’s boundaries being respected: meaning, that facebook is intended by most users to be that private conversation. Should angry parents be allowed to print out lovey-dovey (or even suggestive) comments posted on facebook between her and her significant other and hand it over to school officials ? Should they be able to share an argument between her and her siblings or parents (or worse still, go onto the facebook profiles of her family members to get ammunition against her ?) What if her family members or friends are Muslim or atheist and their facebook conversations were distributed by angry parents trying to drum up negative reactions ?

Even if the information is out there, more importantly, should the school administration have treated this with any legitimacy ?

Er, I guess in place of “allowed” in my above comment, what I mean to say is: should it have any real weight when they do ? People are allowed to do what they like, it’s the administration’s poor reaction that makes it seem like non-violent, non-threatening, simply sarcastic or depressed facebook comments are a good enough reason to suspend a qualified teacher.

I have an issue with that, because in either of those situations she is acting in an official capacity AS a teacher, not merely being a person who IS a teacher. A more applicable example would be what if she said exactly the same things at a restaurant with some interested parties happening to sit at the table next to her and recording it? Still in public, but far more clearly acting as a private individual.

Well, no, I don’t think that’s a fair comparison either, because when you chat at a restaurant you are talking to a few specific people, and you don’t expect other people to record you and post it online. So I think your example is closer to a closed facebook page—you post on a friends-only facebook page knowing that your “friends” COULD decide to spread what you said around, but not aiming at a wide audience. Same as a restaurant.

Talking at assembly is in her capacity AS a teacher, sure, but how is writing an opinion letter/column in a non-school newspaper any more in her role as a teacher than posting on a public website? You have a point about a school assembly, but I think that a public newspaper (not affiliated with the school) is comparable to a public website (not affiliated with the school). Or any other sort of very public situation outside of school—a reporter interviewing her about this situation on TV, say? So, depending on what exactly she said, maybe that would be fine and maybe it wouldn’t. I think a lot of schools WOULD take action based on what a teacher said on TV, evne if she wasn’t acting AS a teacher at that moment, if she said something bad. So the issue is what exactly she said and how public it was.

... and also, how obvious was it that it was her. If she uses her real name and photo on facebook and leaves all the privacy settings wide open, there’s a reasonable expectation that people from school will see it. I still wish they wouldn’t go looking for it, but its hard to claim that she thought no one would see it. On the other hand, if she posted anonymously or had privacy settings set up, then its clear that it was not meant for a public audience.

I’m not necessarily saying she SHOULD have been punished in either case, but if we’re going to debate it, this is highly relevant information that is usually left out

Wow that made a horrible emoticon.

How about ‘education’, maybe.

Ah yeah, that’s taken as “sneering condescension”.  How dare you think you know better than they do?  How dare you think you can educate them?  Don’t you know they’re the salt of the earth?

(I kind of like the emoticon- skeptical smiley is skeptical. Hee. I have a girlfriend who can rock the one-eyebrow-lift perfectly.)

I still wonder if the TV thing is not quite a fair comparison- television is a broadcast medium and the whole point is sharing information, being public. Facebook is on the internet, but I guess it comes down a fundamental belief in what the internet is: is the internet entire a public space, or can some corners of it be designated “private” (privacy settings notwithstanding… I think they’re a great idea, and of course I use ‘em, it just makes me sad that people have to lock up all their thoughts or have their private lives used against them.)

It reminds me of that debate about celebrities: is it all fair game, once they’re in the public eye ? Some people have argued yes, “well, if she didn’t want people to take pictures of her underpants as she got out of her car, then she shouldn’t have become a singer/actress/model!” I tend to think people are owed some privacy, that there are some limits that are (or should be… ha) dictated by decency, not by regulation or firewalls.

This is part of the problem we have in education in the US. Would you go to a hospital that had a doctor shortage and was willing to hire anyone who had passed an anatomy class no matter whether they had ever gone to medical school? Of course you wouldn’t. Yet we are perfectly willing to allow school districts to hire large numbers of teachers who have no actual training in teaching and turn them loose in the classroom.

Find a group of people who are willing to pay 40k to make 35k a year for most of the rest of their life with the same degree that could earn them 50k out of the gate.  The reality is that teachers are hard to come by because school districts are afraid of liabilities and the pay by comparison is minuscule.  I had no problem teaching at the secondary level but was graced with teaching at the post-secondary.  It doesn’t make the job easier, but the pay at least salves some of the stress. 

It isn’t the teachers so much as the fact that the districts routinely underpay for the work asked of them.  This is just another case for people to avoid teaching.  Teachers are the first college graduates most kids deal with, it’s an inferiority complex combined with the concept that because they passed HS they can do the job themselves (ironically, most of them can’t.)  Their parents support this because they carry a grudge against teachers because they carry high-esteem within the community because they do share knowledge freely. 

It’s a circle-jerk and this case should be defended for the teacher.

#49 Luke wrote
To Tom Winter at comment 24: What kind of training would prepare a teacher for this sort of extreme situation? (It seems to me that if she refused to discuss religion in class and asked students to do their class assignments rather than read Bibles during class time, then she was acting correctly).

Background - I teach in higher ed and have 15 years of classroom experience. I do quite a bit of work with teaching assistants and with education majors from the content side of things. You could describe me as the pedagogy person in a content department.

Someone earlier commented that bully-type students are present in most classrooms, even at the college level, and they are ready to pounce at the first sign of weakness in a teacher. I definitely agree with that assesment and it means that teachers have to learn how to hide and/or deflect weaknesses in the classroom. From my reading of the linked article in the News and Record, it sounds like this was a serious classroom management issue that was poorly handled by the teacher and as well as being fed by religious bigotry on the part of the students and their parents. That doesn’t excuse the kids and the parents for being hate-filled idiots, but there are certainly things teachers can do to deescalate and refocus issues in the classroom and it doesn’t sound like this teacher was doing those sorts of things.

First off, I’m not sure what the article means when it says that the teacher bragged about shaming her students. Shaming isn’t usually a particularly effective technique to control behavior and it has great potential to backfire on you, which it sounds like it did in this case. You can sometimes enable rowdy students to embarrass themselves in front of others, but shaming people for believing something that others in the room also believe sounds like a really bad strategy to me.

Second, throwing the Christmas card in the trash so that the students could see her do it was a dumb move. I get that she found it offensive, but the smarter move as a TEACHER who wants to maintain control of her classroom would have been to thank the student, put it into her purse/bag/backpack and pitch it after school. By pitching it where the students could see it she was basically painting a target on herself. It pays to keep certain things to yourself when you’re in front of the classroom and it pays to be just a bit of an actor. Your job is not to be friends with your students or to like your students or to have them like you, your job is to maintain order in the classroom and keep the students engaged in the task of learning.

That brings me to the issue of singing Christian songs and reading the Bible during unstructured time in class. A solution to that would be to (at least temporarily) eliminate unstructured time in class - this btw is a pretty standard technique for dealing with minor to moderately disruptive students - you keep them busy moving from activity to activity and they will often forget to be disruptive. She didn’t need to say anything negative about Bible reading or singing songs, she just needed to give them lots of class related work to do and tight deadlines for getting it done. Busy students don’t sing songs in class.

Sending kids to the principal for asking about creationism also strikes me as a bad move on her part. I’m sure it’s extraordinarily annoying to be asked these sorts of things in a science class, but I think there are similarly annoying questions that students ask in other subject areas as well. I could rattle off a list of annoying things that my students ask me in class - things that have little or nothing to do with the actual goals or content of the course and for most of them I have developed a reasonably polite reply that explains why that isn’t really relevant and moves us back to the topic of the day. If people continue to ask questions, you have to shift the activity in such a way that the floor is clearly no longer open for questions. It sounds like this teacher couldn’t shut down the questions and sent them to the principal for being disruptive. And they WERE being disruptive, BUT there ARE techniques for shutting down disruptive students and the linked article does not make it sound like this teacher was using them or using them effectively.

So - long answer to your question - yes, I do think that good training in classroom management can help teachers avoid getting into situations like this.

Ohhh, and just to be perfectly clear - the kids and parents in this story sound like assholes and pointing out that there may have been classroom management issues on the part of the teacher does not in any way mean that I’m excusing them for being assholes.

Tom, I did a small amount of substitute teaching out of college to help pay off student loans, and I never understood how teachers could be dumb enough to leave subs with unstructured time in class.  A few older teachers knew better, but I had to learn—-quickly—-that if I wasn’t prepared to do some kind of assignment with the kids, then there was a big chance the bullies would try to take over.  Sometimes I would just have to gather the obvious bullies around and engage them in meaningless conversation to distract them before it got out of hand.

#5 Mark is lucky to have been able to move away.  The south, especially the rural south seems to get worse every day.  The ignorance and bigotry of these people is impossible to overstate.  If you are gay, a minority, a progressive, or now even a moderate, you are despised.  They want to keep their children as ignorant as they are too.  Education in the south is a joke.  It’s never been really good, I suppose, but it’s gotten worse since the fundies have taken over all the school boards.

I’m sure some teachers are afraid to teach evolution.  Southerners are going to be even more unprepared for the actual world, more backwards.  Science education is taking a real beating here. 

They’re all in favor of teaching god in the public schools, but hate the idea of any religious person teaching unless they are fundamentalist Christian.  When I was in school there was a lot of pressure to pray around the pole from the Christers.  They would raise holy hell if a group of Muslim or Buddhist students wanted to hold prayers or gatherings of course.

Before then, you actually had songs like “The Preacher and the Slave” (There’ll be pie in the sky when you die/That’s the lie!) arguing forcefully against religion as a tool of right-wing oppression.

And the lumberjack’s prayer

“O hear me Lord, I’m praying still - But if you won’t, our Union will!”

“Rock Candy Mountain” too

The south is unnaturally conservative.  The poor are persuaded to vote against their interests by the people they trust, the pickpocket preachers and politicians who have been keeping them poor and ignorant since before the civil war.  There is so much poverty that it should be a hotbed for socialist revolution but instead it’s people are reactionary and stubbornly remain so despite the evidence that the people they trust to lead them have done nothing except rob them and keep them poor.

I don’t see any chance of it changing anytime soon either.

First off, I’m not sure what the article means when it says that the teacher bragged about shaming her students. Shaming isn’t usually a particularly effective technique to control behavior and it has great potential to backfire on you, which it sounds like it did in this case.

Indeed.  That jumped out at me—maybe it’s just that I went to the Junior High of Public Humiliation and was routinely shamed for much smaller disruptions (failing to do my homework, daydreaming).  I didn’t learn anything from that; I just became depressed and terrified of school. 

Grade 8 kids are still kids.  Kids that age are frequently disruptive and disobedient.  It wouldn’t be a major issue if the parents and the school authorities weren’t supporting them in their acting out.

Also, can we make a distinction between “think of the children!!!” policies and actual children?  The people demanding a happy-happy G-rated Christian world “for the children” are almost invariably adults, and they’re almost always interested in punishing adults for behaviour they don’t like *themselves* more than they’re concerned about the welfare of actual children (aside from, occasionally, their own).

I sort of like the idea of parts of the internet, like facebook, being considered reasonably private and protected. Unfortunately, its hard to get people to read something they came accross without snooping, and then just pretend they didn’t because it wasn’t meant for them.

I guess I’m getting into a side argument; but I just don’t think the restaurant analogy works unless you go to restaurants that you know always routinely record everything everyone says and then index it by name so that anyone can search for it anytime they want.

Also, regardless of what the right thing to do is in each case, I want to know what actually happened here. I’m always curious if people are seriously getting in trouble for things posted on a PRIVATE website behind a privacy wall, because if they are, then it makes me more worried about what I say on facbeook even though its friends-only. On the other hand, if all of these are cases of people who didn’t turn on the privacy settings, then I’m not as worried.

Oh also once kinda-incidental note: It’s entirely possible Hussein had no idea that her posts even were public given that Facebook decided to start randomly dicking around with its user’s privacy settings like a month and a half ago.

It isn’t the teachers so much as the fact that the districts routinely underpay for the work asked of them.  This is just another case for people to avoid teaching.  Teachers are the first college graduates most kids deal with, it’s an inferiority complex combined with the concept that because they passed HS they can do the job themselves (ironically, most of them can’t.) Their parents support this because they carry a grudge against teachers because they carry high-esteem within the community because they do share knowledge freely.

It’s a circle-jerk and this case should be defended for the teacher.
Comment #82: Xeranar on 02/16 at 05:10 PM

Be careful here, be very careful.  There is quite too much emphasis placed on education courses in most ed programs - some of the material in these courses is useful in controlling large groups of children and adolescents, some is laughable.  But because ed departments at universities need to pad their requirements to justify their existence, they add ed courses and cut subject area courses, which results in Pencils all sharpened but nothing to teach.  IN most cases, what is needed is more subject knowledge.  And a raising of the bar for entrance into an ed program, esp. at the graduate level.  DO you not think it is a bit laughable at least that at colleges (and even universities)  the person with the PhD teaching the 18 and 19 y o biology class and the 400 level Molecular Biology would be considered unqualified to teach the 17 and 18 y o senior biology class?

The statement that teachers are the first college grads kids deal with is also erroneous.  A full 1/4 of kids have a

Privacy seems to be a foreign concept on the Right today, except when it’s theirs’ or their children’s, but that is an entirely on again/off again thing (see Cariboo Barbie photograph my kids, photograph them not).  I found the persecution of Rahm Emnauel more disturbing for the fact of where he said it (essentially a strategy war room of his own party) and it was disclosed - yeah that was a very private setting, IMO, yet the media ran with it instead of ignoring it. 

Are we at the stage of needing to edit the sweet nothings we whisper on the pillow for fear they’re being recorded/overheard and WILL BE reported?

Oh, the willful blindness of some parents, who simply cannot believe that their widdle pweshus baybee is anything but wonderful and brilliant and perfect in every single way.  News flash, Mr. Inman: Educators DO talk about kids like this.  At length.  Wanna know why?  It’s because they see your kids’ REAL faces, the ones they show to the world when Mommy and Daddy aren’t watching.  They know that your perfect angels are actually vicious, self-centered little shits who know that if they get in trouble, all they have to do is whine to their doting parents about “that meeeean teacher!” and Mommy and Daddy will rush to their defense without even considering that Widdle Pweshus could be at fault.

Here’s what I’d like to know: Why is it “free speech” for these little bastards to sing hymns in biology class and leave religious materials on their teacher’s desk in a blatant display of harassment, but when she vents on Facebook SHE’S the one who gets punished?

Great point.  I find it amusing and also sad that these problems with classroom management would be completely alien to my older relatives/parents’ experiences back in China/Taiwan because in those societies back when they were attending school, students were literally expected to sit down, shut up, and pay attention/take notes for the entire lecture period with almost no chance for making comments from elementary school through university. 

Any kid who raised a question even slightly embarrassing/undermining to the teacher concerned would be harshly disciplined by the teacher, the dean of the school, and the parents once they found out. 

Unlike the US where parents assume the teacher is always wrong about their baby, most Chinese parents back when my parents were schoolchildren had such a high degree of respect for teachers and schools that it is the teacher who is assumed to be truthful and the child’s word discounted.  Moreover, any parent who had the temerity to defend or dispute the teacher’s account would be perceived by other parents, school personnel, and society as enablers of the child’s bad behavior and thus, to be ostracized and disdained accordingly…not good when the educators had the power to decide whether the child is fit for the academic college prep track, the vocational track, or whether s(he) should leave school and start working after 8th grade.  Incidentally, they had the exact opposite issue…..teachers who had so much power and esteem that it could invite abuse as opposed to the US where parents and their kids hold educators in complete contempt and demand they move mountains to accommodate their every unreasonable request whether it is disrupting classes…or throwing temper tantrums to demand unmerited higher grades. 

A system somewhere in between the two extremes would do much to ameliorate the collapsing US K-12 education system….

Incidentally, they had the exact opposite issue…..teachers who had so much power and esteem that it could invite abuse as opposed to the US where parents and their kids hold educators in complete contempt and demand they move mountains to accommodate their every unreasonable request whether it is disrupting classes…or throwing temper tantrums to demand unmerited higher grades.

Given that we’ve seen posts on this very blog about kids getting strip-searched and tased at American schools, I don’t think this is an accurate characterization of what happens in the U.S.

There is quite too much emphasis placed on education courses in most ed programs - some of the material in these courses is useful in controlling large groups of children and adolescents, some is laughable.  But because ed departments at universities need to pad their requirements to justify their existence, they add ed courses and cut subject area courses, which results in Pencils all sharpened but nothing to teach.  IN most cases, what is needed is more subject knowledge.  And a raising of the bar for entrance into an ed program, esp. at the graduate level.  DO you not think it is a bit laughable at least that at colleges (and even universities) the person with the PhD teaching the 18 and 19 y o biology class and the 400 level Molecular Biology would be considered unqualified to teach the 17 and 18 y o senior biology class?

It’s really about the license, before I lucked out into the grad school program I wanted I thought about just getting emergency certification or returning to get a masters in History to get my license.  If states agreed that educators needed 75 credits in their major, 15 in education, and 30 in an elective we’d all be in a better place but most states want the accreditation programs to work a certain way and the writers of these standards are mostly PhD holders in…..EDUCATION. 

From the fact I went to an undergrad school where they churned out classes that were 70% education majors, I have to say most of them were well trained in their subject matter, the complexity of trying to teach 30 kids in a room is like trying to fit a jigsaw puzzle together when all the pieces are half-chewed on.  Even if you get it to fit it’ll never be perfect.  I’m not saying that there are not some under-qualified teachers, I’m saying that the basis of blaming teachers for poor control of a classroom or not teaching to their potential is a bit harsh. 

Also, in all 50 states once you have a masters in a subject area (as far as I know) you become automatically certified and can teach in the classroom.  There maybe a few that require some sort of extra training but in all the ones I have seen it is that way.  So yes, the professor at the local university can teach at the HS down the block.

“She complained about her students wearing Jesus T-shirts and singing “Jesus Loves Me.””  She deserves to be fired for this.  No sympathy.

Were there more productive ways she could have handled this?  Sure.  But unless you’ve been the target of concentrated bullying it’s hard to understand just how well a really talented group of bullies can work their timing and their technique, until they can produce an intense negative reaction with words they can claim are perfectly innocent.  The words are, but they’ve been given certain associations in the mind of the target that makes the connotations anything but innocent.
That being said, as well as a lot of sympathy for the teacher, I feel exceedingly sorry for these children.  Their parents have failed them by letting them learn that bullying is an acceptable way to relate socially to people you don’t agree with; these children haven’t been provided with any models of decent behavior.  Of course they’re little shits.  They haven’t had a chance to be anything but little shits. But I guarantee that at least a few of them are going to look back at this and feel shame, if they manage to find a social group where this sort of behavior isn’t rewarded.

Also, in all 50 states once you have a masters in a subject area (as far as I know) you become automatically certified and can teach in the classroom.  There maybe a few that require some sort of extra training but in all the ones I have seen it is that way.  So yes, the professor at the local university can teach at the HS down the block.

That’s not at all how it works in my state.  You must have a proper license or complete some type of alternative certification program to be employed as a teacher in my state. I am aware of a school district near me that was in desperate need of a particular subject and unable to find anyone with a license, so they did wind up hiring someone with a masters degree in the subject and they then paid a recently retired teacher with a license to sit in the back of the classroom for an entire year because a licensed teacher must be in charge of the class at all times.

Also, in all 50 states once you have a masters in a subject area (as far as I know) you become automatically certified and can teach in the classroom.  There maybe a few that require some sort of extra training but in all the ones I have seen it is that way.  So yes, the professor at the local university can teach at the HS down the block.
Comment #97: Xeranar on 02/17 at 12:55 AM

Need some citation for this, because frankly, you are wrong.  While some states may allow what used to be called a limited license in subject areas of need (today it is math and science)  and many have alternate paths (Teach for America, UTEP, JET and other career changing programs) those involve a certification/education courses and an M.A. in education with certification at the end - Praxis test etc.
I wonder if you are confusing the national Master Teacher program?

I’m very familiar with this topic because my state just went through a “we need to drop some of the ed requirements because frankly a lot of very good potential teachers are not willing to jump through education department hoops” brouhaha which of course, the teachers groups went nuts over.

Today, what’s called an initial license is still available, but it is only provisional and one must concurrently teach and jump trough the ed requirement hoops.

Teacher shortage areas; licensing and employment of individuals with postgraduate degrees; conditions for renewal
    Sec. 15. (a) Notwithstanding section 3(b)(6) of this chapter, the department shall grant an initial practitioner’s license in a specific subject area to an applicant who:
      (1) has earned a postgraduate degree from a regionally accredited postsecondary educational institution in the subject area in which the applicant seeks to be licensed;
      (2) has at least one (1) academic year of experience teaching students in a middle school, high school, or college classroom setting; and
      (3) complies with sections 4 and 12 of this chapter.
  (b) An individual who receives an initial practitioner’s license under this section may teach in the specific subject for which the individual is licensed only in:
      (1) high school; or
      (2) middle school;
if the subject area is designated by the state board as having an insufficient supply of licensed teachers.
  (c) After receiving an initial practitioner’s license under this section, an applicant who seeks to renew the applicant’s initial practitioner’s license or obtain a proficient practitioner’s license must:
      (1) demonstrate that the applicant has:
        (A) participated in cultural competency professional development activities;
        (B) obtained training and information from a special education teacher concerning exceptional learners; and
        (C) received:
          (i) training or certification that complies; or
          (ii) an exemption from compliance;
        with the standards set forth in section 3(c) of this chapter; and
      (2) meet the same requirements as other candidates.

Bruce Godfrey @98

So singing in class or study hall is okay as long as they’re singing Christian religious songs?

Gotcha.  Good to know who we’re dealing with.

Also, in all 50 states once you have a masters in a subject area (as far as I know) you become automatically certified and can teach in the classroom.  There maybe a few that require some sort of extra training but in all the ones I have seen it is that way.  So yes, the professor at the local university can teach at the HS down the block.

That certainly isn’t the case in Ohio.  I have a MS in physics, am a few classes away from a BS in math, and have passed the praxis exams in both math and physics with scores in the top 10% nationally.  I also have extensive teaching experience (7 years experience doing both long term subbing—i.e., I get the classroom when the teacher is going to be gone for a few months and do all the stuff that the regular teacher does (lesson plans, dealing with parents, teaching, etc.)—and daily subbing—different school/class/subject every day, and teaching intro physics/physical science/astronomy at the college level in the evenings).  I’m currently a visiting professor at the local state U and working on my PhD in science education.  And according to the state of Ohio, I am not qualified to teach physics, physical science, or math at the secondary level.  Even when I finish the PhD in education, I won’t be able to get certified without an additional two years of classes on top of that and a few extra hoops to jump through.  I know this because I’ve looked into it, as I really enjoy teaching.  The plan now is to get the PhD and stay on in my current job as an instructor (no tenure, but I’m not all that ambitious, I just want to have a teaching job where I get to teach physics or something related and I’m not all that particular about where or if it’s high school or college, and maybe do physics education research on the side) or hope for a teaching job in a small college in the area.

There is something here called the Alternative License, which basically requires a masters degree in your subject, passing the praxis exams, and a school willing to hire you.  You can then get a provisional license for two years, during which time you take the education classes required and work under serious supervision.  At the end of it, you can get a regular teaching license (the one that people with BAs in education get), which is good for two more years while you take more classes to get the regular certification.  Which in Ohio is good for 5 years, during which time you have to take so many more hours of continuing ed before you can renew at the end of it.  And this goes on for the rest of your working life, if you want to teach here.  However, I can’t get a job with an Alternative License because the MS makes me too expensive and I wouldn’t be counted as a *highly qualified teacher* until the end of the first two years (and apparently, as it was explained to me, NCLB requires school districts, particularly failing districts—and where I live, our schools are considered failing—to have a certain percentage of teachers be *highly qualified* for funding). 

So, the fact that I’m highly educated, enjoy teaching, want to teach, and am quite a good teacher, but didn’t discover this fact until well into my original graduate program in a field that I love and has a shortage of good teachers, makes me unable to actually get a teaching job in the area where I live.  And it’s my understanding that a lot of other states have similar issues.

So, the fact that I’m highly educated, enjoy teaching, want to teach, and am quite a good teacher, but didn’t discover this fact until well into my original graduate program in a field that I love and has a shortage of good teachers, makes me unable to actually get a teaching job in the area where I live. 

You could probably have your choice of teaching jobs at a private school, since good physics teachers are hard to come by, and private schools don’t have the same number of onerous licensing requirements.

Wonder what would happen if rather than chucking the card in the trash, the teacher responded privately to one of those particular kids, “Jesus loves me more than you.”

Given that we’ve seen posts on this very blog about kids getting strip-searched and tased at American schools, I don’t think this is an accurate characterization of what happens in the U.S.

Actually, both extremes happen, and in both cases it has more to do with the attitude of the administrators than the teachers per se.  If you’re a teacher in a school where the administrators defer to the parents, you have no choice but to do the same because the administrators will not back you up if there’s a dispute.  If you’re a teacher in a school where the administrators think it’s their job to keep the little thugs under control, you’re going to have a whole lot more power over those kids.

People complain about bad teachers but it seems like 90 percent of the problems can be traced back to bad administrators.  I have a feeling that the administrators at Ms. Hussain’s school weren’t willing to punish the misbehaving kids because they were being all “Christian” about it, and that only made things worse.

Actually, both extremes happen, and in both cases it has more to do with the attitude of the administrators than the teachers per se.  If you’re a teacher in a school where the administrators defer to the parents, you have no choice but to do the same because the administrators will not back you up if there’s a dispute.  If you’re a teacher in a school where the administrators think it’s their job to keep the little thugs under control, you’re going to have a whole lot more power over those kids.

People complain about bad teachers but it seems like 90 percent of the problems can be traced back to bad administrators.  I have a feeling that the administrators at Ms. Hussain’s school weren’t willing to punish the misbehaving kids because they were being all “Christian” about it, and that only made things worse.

That was my point…and I should have specified teachers because in most places, they are under the thumb of educrats….most of whom were even more subpar when they were students than the teachers they supervise. 

In the case of China/Taiwan/Hong Kong back when my parents were schoolkids, children who are disruptive to the extent of singing songs in class would have been expelled, their parents publicly disgraced, and the kiddies would be told to find themselves a job as all further academic/vocational educational opportunities are closed as only those who met minimal behaviorial and academic standards would qualify. 

A Japanese friend who I met during my undergrad ended up being expelled from 7th grade and barred from further education for being involved in one schoolyard fight….even though he had no previous record of bad behavior.  As he was immediately disowned by his family and having to work odd/unskilled factory jobs for several years to make ends meet, he was extremely fortunate to have met an older Japanese benefactor who felt he deserved a second chance and sponsored him to finish his education through university in the US.  By the time I met him, he was a 26 year old senior about to graduate in good standing from a decent US university.  He would have had no chance if he had remained in the Japanese/East Asian educational system as they almost never give out second chances if a child messes up…even in elementary or junior high school.

If I had been the principal, I would have just have just given her a few days paid leave and sent in a substitute teacher and announced that she had committed suicide.  I would have then had a few actors come in playing the part of relatives to collect her things, bawling and screaming “Why? Why?”

Oooh..better yet.  Go all Shakespearean and have her ghost haunt the classroom.

The 1st college educated people a child has contact with (in this country) are typiclly the doctors, nurses and/or midwives at their delivery, followed by well baby and child visits or trips to the emergency room where they see the same, not teachers.  Not universally, of course, but typically.