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Next entry: The evil of puppy mills Previous entry: You Know The Type, Loud As A Motorbike

The $3.8 million prank

Sex

Man, today is a weird one for a feminist, because it’s a “stuff going right” day.  Lilly Ledbetter Act passes the Senate, the global gag rule was rescinded, and I discovered that I can crap diamonds.  (Just checking to see if you were paying attention.)  I had to revise my podcast at the last minute to reflect how quickly the changes are coming.  Which is why I’m reading about this woman who is selling her virginity for $3.8 million, and my first inclination is to generously assume that she’s pulling one awesome prank on some patriarchy-addled man and just on the world at large.  Someone who doesn’t realize that when you “take” someone’s virginity, you end up empty handed. 

The virgin in question is Natalie Dylan, and she’s written an apology for herself for anti-feminist magazine The Daily Beast, which is in the habit of running articles from self-described feminists who have developed anti-feminist beliefs, like mothers shouldn’t work or Sarah Palin is the shit.  But I’m choosing to be sanguine and believe that she’s pranking The Daily Beast as well, by exploiting their desire to needle feminists to transmit the more important idea, which is that men who invest value in concepts like “virginity” are fucking idiots, including presumably the editorial staff at The Daily Beast.

I realize that Dylan has had some Moonlight Ranch doctor confirm that she’s a virgin, which is something that you can only confirm by asking someone if she’s had sex and trusting her when she says, “No.”  People like to believe that the hymen is some sort of sure shot way to tell, but if Dylan has been examined with a speculum, that’ll do it in as surely as intercourse would have.  If she had one to begin with—-a lot of women don’t past puberty, especially if they were active at all.  I don’t know why this isn’t talked about more, because I think it would save a lot of teenage girls some anxiety.  Not to be TMI, but I never had one that I know of, and my feeling about that is gratitude, because women I know who did didn’t particularly enjoy tearing it up.  To make it more confusing, some women still have a hymen after having sex, even a lot of sex, because it stretches, you know.  Virginity is not a physical state.  It’s a mental concept.  And because it’s a concept, we can extend it to men even though there are no myths about physical changes to men’s bodies after the first time they have sex.


The most illuminating treatment I’ve seen of this issue is Hanne Blank’s book Virgin: The Untouched History, where she explains in great detail how humanity has never been able to really get a handle on this three point problem.

1) Virginity is just a concept.
2) However, virginity is VERY IMPORTANT to the patriarchy.
3) Trusting women to define virginity themselves is out of the question.

Of course, the most logical solution to the problem is to let a woman’s deflowerer to decide if she really had this “virginity” and he really took it.  And that was the initial solution for much of history, but it creates massive problems, namely that many grooms will decide their wives weren’t virgins and either have them executed or returned to their families in an unmarriageable state, because their virginity is definitely gone now.  Now, if you’re a feminist, you see the major problem with this system, which is that it treats women like property.  But the perceived problem was the expense and trouble of it, as well as the family dishonor issues, so lawsuits were inevitable.  Since taking women’s word for it was out of the question, people started to come up with physical tests of virginity.  I recommend reading the book for all the various ones, a variety that shows that, in truth, there was no test, and that includes the hymen test, which is just our culture’s specific myth. 

And that’s not even taking into account that anyone can define “virgin” however they want.  Maybe you only think it counts if you have PIV intercourse, but then are “gold star” lesbians virgins, even if they’ve slept with a hundred women?  Some teenagers subject to abstinence-only education think fooling around but avoiding PIV isn’t sex, but they’re engaging in sexual behaviors, so isn’t that a form of sex?  Where do you draw the line?  This problem is obviously a looming one for the Christofascists who’ve become positively obsessed with sexual “purity”.  Realizing that virginity is an amorphous concept, they’ve desperately been defining it with an ever-growing list of “Thou shalt nots”, at least if you want to make sure, and so now you’re seeing couples crowing about how they never even kissed or held hands before their wedding.  (Which makes me wonder if they think their first kiss at the altar is a form of pornography for their own families.) 

I just hope Dynes makes sure the check clears and she has a contract that says he can’t sue her if her eventual customer finds that taking someone’s virginity looks and feels exactly like having sex with a woman who isn’t a virgin.  Because someone who believes in virginity enough to pay $3.8 million for it probably believes in all the baggage around it, including the male prerogative to decide that there was no virginity there because it didn’t feel like he imagined it would.  And that’s a lot of money to spend on something that doesn’t really exist in a physical sense, and so the odds that he’ll feel cheated are sky high.  But as long as she’s protected herself from getting fucked over instead of merely fucked, the I say go with the Disco Ball.  And I’ll choose to believe you’re punking a bunch of dumb motherfuckers.

 

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Posted by Amanda Marcotte on 09:08 PM • (62) Comments

we can extend it to men even though there are no myths about physical changes to men’s bodies after the first time they have sex.

What about the itchy, incurable rash?

Wait, that’s not everybody’s first time?

Comment #1: Auguste  on  01/23  at  09:15 PM

At first I thought you were talking about Buffalo Beast, and I thought, “Noooo!  I love their 50 worst people of the year round up.”  Phew.

if Dylan has been examined with a speculum, that’ll do it in as surely as intercourse would have.

Oh no.  It could possibly break her hymen, but if the doctor was careful, probably not.

Comment #2: keshmeshi  on  01/23  at  09:16 PM

Well, then I’d assume that a penis might avoid breaking a hymen if you’re careful, too.  *shrug* I don’t have any experience, and weirdly there’s not a lot of information out there, except stuff involving horseback riding and the hymen perils it presents.  Having ridden plenty of horses in my time, I can’t say they’re that much rougher on your girl bits than a bicycle, but maybe I was just using a nice saddle.

Comment #3: Amanda Marcotte  on  01/23  at  09:18 PM

Gynecologists can verify that someone has an intact hymen through visual examination—no speculum needed.

Of course, many female-bodied people who have never had sexual intercourse of any kind have eroded their hymens, as you point out.

The sickest thing to me is that I have interviewed professional sex workers who did have a real or feigned “first time” with a client, and the “virginity premium” in those cases was in the hundreds or low thousands of dollars.

So this is kind of a shitty calculus, in which a non-sex worker’s virginity is somehow worth a kajillion times more than an actual sex worker’s virginity.  Kind of a Black Like Me thing.

Comment #4: JupiterPluvius  on  01/23  at  09:19 PM

Every time I try to think of something to say about this, I keep coming back to What. The. Fuck?!  I guess I can give props to Natalie Dylan for figuring out a way to pay for college.  But the dudes?  What. The. Fuck?!  I guess I’ve never wanted to own another person.

She should go beyond the check clearing and make the dudes go through a full STI test.  Not everyone goes through one before any kind of sex, but there’s enough planning involved with this that if I were her I’d be making ‘em go through a few hoops, too.

And condoms.

Comment #5: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  01/23  at  09:33 PM

I’m really glad you mentioned Blank’s book. It’s utterly fantastic.

Comment #6: Brigid Keely  on  01/23  at  09:38 PM

MAJeff, “making them go through a few condoms” assumes that anyone who would bid $3.8 million for sex with a “virgin” would be able to take advantage of more than…well, you get where I’m going with this.

Comment #7: Auguste  on  01/23  at  09:39 PM

No, not assuming going through more than a few condoms… Just saying they’d better be willing to use ‘em. 

No latex, no nookie.

Comment #8: MAJeff, the God of Biscuits  on  01/23  at  09:43 PM

Personal story (possible TMI):

I like to say that I lost my virginity to a doctor - specifically, the one who surgically removed my hymen (yup, they come in all shapes and sizes and thicknesses - my GP described mine as a “brick wall”.)

I’m not sure how the patriarch-lovers would feel about these uber-hymens: pleased to have built-in chastity belts for their property, or terrified that they are impenetrable to the all-mighty phallus?

But this is making me wish I’d asked for it in a jar, and then auctioned that sucker off.

Comment #9: Floyd  on  01/23  at  09:45 PM

“Having ridden plenty of horses in my time, I can’t say they’re that much rougher on your girl bits than a bicycle, but maybe I was just using a nice saddle.”

My guess would be that the mounting and dismounting being more vigorous for horseback-riding than bike-riding plays into it a bit.  I’ve heard that being active with gymnastics, dance, or yoga can also hasten the erosion process.  Dunno how true it is—I mean, how the hell would you go about doing a real study of something that’s so idiosyncratic?

Comment #10: preying mantis  on  01/23  at  09:45 PM

But this is making me wish I’d asked for it in a jar, and then auctioned that sucker off.

Did you ever see Kinsey?  Clara’s problem hymen is an important plot point since it was one of the things that made Kinsey decide that we all needed to talk about sex more often.

Comment #11: Mnemosyne  on  01/23  at  09:54 PM

Also, for $3.8 million, you could probably get that surgery that “restores” virginity by creating a fake hymen, so these days even having an hymen in place isn’t a guarantee of anything.

Comment #12: Mnemosyne  on  01/23  at  09:57 PM

This is certainly an interesting statement about the cost of higher education and the lack of equitable funding mechanisms in the country, to say the least.

Comment #13: Ms Kate  on  01/23  at  10:07 PM

Exactly the point I just made at my humble blog, Ms Kate. Great minds smile

Comment #14: Arvilla  on  01/23  at  10:28 PM

Heh.  I totally lied about being a virgin the first time I had sex.  I told him I wasn’t, and sold him a story on why there was, oh, “evidence,” about my virginity.

Comment #15: BetsyTX  on  01/23  at  10:29 PM

I’ve never had sex with a virgin (as far as I know,) and really can’t see the appeal.  Why would I want to have sex with someone who was inexperienced?  I mean, sure I’ve taught some women a thing or two as they have done the same for me, but why would anyone fetishize inexperience?  I just don’t get it.  I understand the concepts of purity, being first, and all the rest, but I certainly don’t want that in a lover.  Give me someone who may or may not have been around the block a few times, but I really wouldn’t pay a premium (figuratively speaking, even) for virginity.  The first time with every new partner is apt to be a bit awkward enough in the first place, but I really can’t imagine seeking to be anyone’s first.  My first time was fumbly and silly and enjoyable, but I still have some pity for that woman.  And while I have a plenty big enough ego to be someone else’s first, I really don’t want to go there.

In the end, I just have to say that fools and their money rarely develop long-term relationships.

Comment #16: 3letterjon  on  01/23  at  10:32 PM

Well, in the spirit of there being more information about this out there (and hopefully, not TMI), I didn’t have any discernible hymen-breaking event my first time.  Certainly nothing that anyone could “prove” by showing a sheet to all my relatives.  Thank the disco ball or spaghetti monster or the holy ghost (boo!) or (my personal favorite) Kali Ma, that I wasn’t a young women from a culture that demanded that.  I was an athletic kid - softball, basketball, volleyball, soccer - no horses, though.

Comment #17: wayloopy  on  01/23  at  10:36 PM

I call shenanigans.  3.8 million is a lot of money.  For a tiny fraction of that you could find a virgin willing to have sex with you, even if you were a fairly grotesque specimen of manhood and were unwilling to use a condom.

I certainly know women who would have been willing to do it for low six figures back when they were virgins.  You can get through a high quality four year school covering all expenses and still having plenty of walking around money for say $200,000.  Losing your virginity to some greasy misogynist seems a modest price to pay as long as you maintain a clear head about the whole thing.

I’m betting Natalie Wosname is playing with everyone here.

Comment #18: togolosh  on  01/23  at  10:38 PM

Isn’t what she is doing prostitution, and therefore illegal?

Comment #19: Ben D.  on  01/23  at  11:10 PM

She’s in Nevada, Ben.  It’s totally legal.

Comment #20: Ms Kate  on  01/23  at  11:18 PM

Well, the whole “how do you tell?” question is what led to the most severe form of female genital mutilation, where all of the girl’s sex organs are cut off and the resulting gaping hole sewn together with only a tiny hole left for urine and menstrual blood to pass through.  The lucky hubby then gets to cut her open on their wedding night.  Oh joy!

As for faking defloration, hell, all you have to do is read some good trashy historical romance novels.  *g*  I learned all about how do to that back in my early teens, thanks to them.

Comment #21: Mau de Katt  on  01/23  at  11:41 PM

I just hope Dynes makes sure the check clears and she has a contract that says he can’t sue her if her eventual customer finds that taking someone’s virginity looks and feels exactly like having sex with a woman who isn’t a virgin.

Exactly. Cause if she doesn’t all it would take from the john is one phone call to put a stop payment on the check and then she’d look like a total fool and Nice Guys and misogynists everywhere would rejoice in that she got played.

And Blank’s book is one of the best non-fiction I’ve ever read. The various tests in various cultures made me happy I have parents who honestly don’t give a shit what state my hymen is in as long as I’m practicing safe sex. I don’t know if I ever had one, I was really active as a kid and the first time I was penetrated (note: no sex, just penetration and then we had to stop cause it hurt like hell) I didn’t bleed or anything and a lot of my female friends were telling me I was going to bleed.

Not to mention, there are several animals that have hymens. None of them seem to give a shit about it.

Comment #22: UltraMagnus  on  01/23  at  11:49 PM

I actually know two women who have a bit of a virgin kink, including my wife. Her explanation:

a) They do exactly what they’re told.
b) They’re really really grateful.

I don’t think this invalidates any of your points, and obviously there’s a way-different power dynamic. I’m not sure I’m even making an argument other than pointing out that “virginity” isn’t only attractive to (some) men.

Comment #23: Andrew  on  01/23  at  11:59 PM

I’m pretty certain that the winning bid is going to be put up by that Russian voice-mail-message dude.

And he’ll spend the whole night talking about himself, and never actually have sex with her.

Having ridden plenty of horses in my time, I can’t say they’re that much rougher on your girl bits than a bicycle, but maybe I was just using a nice saddle.

Did you send your “saddlebacking” definition in to Dan Savage, Amanda?

Comment #24: Pesto  on  01/24  at  12:00 AM

I’ve never had sex with a virgin either, unless my exgf was lying. I’m not likely to at this point, and the notion becomes creepier with each passing year. I don’t really feel I’ve missed out on anything.

But if I wanted the experience, I could have it for well under $3.8M.

Comment #25: Hershele Ostropoler  on  01/24  at  12:12 AM

Andrew, your wife’s second reason parallels what I imagine is the appeal for men: they’re easily impressed.

Comment #26: Hershele Ostropoler  on  01/24  at  12:33 AM

This is obviously shenanigans.  Folks have tried this sort of publicity stunt before (remember “ourfirsttime.com”?) and it’s always been a hoax.  I suspect this one’s intended to drum up publicity for the brothel involved.

Comment #27: jfpbookworm  on  01/24  at  12:38 AM

I have to say, for $3.8 million, there are a lot of things I would do for one night.

Comment #28: Punditus Maximus  on  01/24  at  01:23 AM

I suspect that the horse-back riding thing was just something they made up to explain why some virgins didn’t have much of a hymen back before they really figured out that some people just don’t have much of a hymen.

As long as everyone is sharing, I was a really active kid. No horseback riding, but lots of bikes, tree-climbing, wrestling and karate (with lots of stretching - I could do the splits). And my first time, it hurt and I bled.

Comment #29: chingona  on  01/24  at  02:27 AM

Well, then I’d assume that a penis might avoid breaking a hymen if you’re careful, too.

Yeah, right, like you haven’t noticed we have problems aiming the things at the best of times…

I have to say, for $3.8 million, there are a lot of things I would do for one night.

For $3.8 million, her virginity had better be able to cure cancer, is all I can say.

Comment #30: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  01/24  at  02:28 AM

Well, more TMI.

Mine was apparently dismantled as a teenager in a doctors office. I had to have a pelvic for some kind of paperwork of all the stupid things.

Two years later, I lost my virginity. No blood but it hurt like hell.

Here is my (possibly way out there) take on the lure of a virgin. It often does hurt like hell the first time, and perhaps they (these men) imagine that some kind of “force” is necessary to break the hymen. so is it some kind of rape substitute? Like, getting the power rush of what they fantasize a rape experience would be like without the whole nasty illegal mess?

I dunno.

Comment #31: Lexie  on  01/24  at  03:08 AM

Most guys I’ve discussed this with think that taking someone’s virginity is just a pain in the ass, in many ways. They’d rather avoid it.

Guys with virginity fetishes are creepy. End of story.

Comment #32: RacyT  on  01/24  at  04:53 AM

My first time was also hers; it took several attempts over multiple sessions before things were relatively comfortable, and there was some bleeding.  She had an intact hymen, which probably had something to do with it.  Apart from the whole excitement about losing my virginity thing, I felt quite guilty and uncomfortable about the experience, although subsequent events would prove it was a necessary evil.  I can’t imagine being gratified by such a thing.

That aside, 3.8 million is a lot of money.  A lot of money.  As a straight male, I’d probably let him have my virginity for such an amount if you catch my meaning - no more minimum wage job for me.  I’m not of the school that believes sex work is necessarily exploitative in and of itself, although I recognize the historical nature of such work to be fraught with ethically troubling power imbalances.

Comment #33: Tim P.  on  01/24  at  06:25 AM

This story is pretty clearly not true in any meaningful sense.

What you have is a MySpace page, created under what is admittedly an assumed name, and a photograph of a frankly very anonymous-looking brunette woman.  Then there’s an unnamed Australian bidder who has bid $3.8 million, but there are no plans to close the auction.

In other words, this story contains zero verifiable facts.

I agree that the most plausible explanation is that this is a Bunny Ranch publicity stunt.  I would also point out that despite prostitution being legal in Nevada, if this really did result in an exchange of money there are myriad legal problems that could arise. 

Everybody’s getting played here.

Comment #34: Ape Man  on  01/24  at  09:48 AM

I did like the article, though. I still feel squicky about it, but - hey - relatively “free” money.

Props on the registration. But…“Essie the Elephant” was already taken? Is that a popular name now, or have I been trolled already? No matter, just remember that THIS “Essie Elephant” is the Wiccan peacenik you all know and love! smile

Comment #35: Essie Elephant  on  01/24  at  11:12 AM

Without being too specific, the stories of “it hurt my first time” really make me think that every young woman should be issued some sort of sex toy upon menarche.  The first guy I slept with was genitally gifted, if you catch my meaning, and though it wasn’t an chorus of angels from on high and all that, it was good clean fun and not painful at all. 

I think it helps psychologically to know what can reasonably fit in there, is all I’m saying.

Comment #36: LauraB  on  01/24  at  11:18 AM

Isn’t what she is doing prostitution, and therefore illegal?

As Ms. Kate pointed out, this is in Nevada and therefore, totally legal.

My first thought on reading BenD’s comment was: How is this any different than what goes on at those purity balls where little girls pledge their hymans to daddy until daddy is ready to auction them off to another man who he deems appropriate?

At least $3.8 million, if this is true, gives the woman something useful.

Comment #37: kac90b  on  01/24  at  11:38 AM

Essie, I’m guessing that you are the one who took your name.  I got the same message, and I don’t imagine I’ll meet another Neil the Ethical Werewolf too soon.

Comment #38: Neil the Ethical Werewolf  on  01/24  at  11:42 AM

As long as everyone is sharing, I was a really active kid. No horseback riding, but lots of bikes, tree-climbing, wrestling and karate (with lots of stretching - I could do the splits). And my first time, it hurt and I bled.

This was my experience, too.  Not only was I a fairly active kid/teenager (including horseback riding), but I’d had several annual GYN exams and a transvaginal ultrasound by the time I got around to sex.  What can I say, I was a late bloomer!  And not only did it hurt quite a bit, but I spotted for days.  It was bad enough that I went to see my gynecologist, whose first question was “Was it consensual?”  (Answer: yes.)  Goes to show how NOT normal bleeding after sex is.

Yay for oversharing threads!

Comment #39: Leely  on  01/24  at  11:43 AM

Neil, if I took the name somehow in the cross-over, I don’t know how to access it. I thought that maybe htey pre-registered some of us, but when I said “Forgot my password” and put in my usual email, the message said they didn’t have my email on file. Odd.

Well, it doesn’t matter. I will miss my “the”, though.

Comment #40: Essie Elephant  on  01/24  at  12:05 PM

I’m joining in the opinion of this being a publicity stunt as well.

And some more (probably TMI) oversharing; my first (few) times with my first true boyfriend were painful but there was no bleeding. After our breakup, I had other boyfriends and other experiences, and then had sex with a boy who had been my first crush, who was very “endowed”. That time I bled…he assumed I was a virgin and had waited for him. I laughed in his face (he was not amused).  Apparently, my hymen stretched considerably before finally tearing with my experience with my first crush.

Comment #41: shartheheretic  on  01/24  at  12:05 PM

but if Dylan has been examined with a speculum, that’ll do it in as surely as intercourse would have.

One more data point for “nope.” Endocrine issues, pediatric gynecologist, exams when I was a teen; still had pain and bleeding the first time, with an average-sized guy.

Comment #42: Rikibeth  on  01/24  at  12:22 PM

Without being too specific, the stories of “it hurt my first time” really make me think that every young woman should be issued some sort of sex toy upon menarche.

I don’t know about that. Again, without being too specific, I was no stranger to self-pleasure in my youth, and I still had some pain. It wasn’t awful, but it was uncomfortable - just something to get through so we could do it again and do it better the next time. Afterward, we were both laughing and kind of giddy cause hey, we did it, and then he saw the blood and totally freaked out.

Comment #43: chingona  on  01/24  at  01:09 PM

While we’re sharing TMI stories, apparently I’m a virgin everytime I have sex after a prolonged period of time, if we’re going by the Rules of the Patriarchy that a virgin bleeds when she has sex for the first time. It’s sort of annoying.

But this is making me wish I’d asked for it in a jar, and then auctioned that sucker off.

Now THAT would have been an auction to watch. This one’s been going on for quite a while, hasn’t it? When IS she closing the auction?

Comment #44: Jha  on  01/24  at  01:11 PM

My first thought on reading BenD’s comment was: How is this any different than what goes on at those purity balls where little girls pledge their hymans to daddy until daddy is ready to auction them off to another man who he deems appropriate?

Heh, good point!

Comment #45: Ben D.  on  01/24  at  01:14 PM

I am surprised that the bidding has gone that high.  Wonder what they’re doing to make sure all the bids are credible. 

I mean, $3.8 million buys a lot of houses.  Maybe if Lehman had invested in virginity-backed securities rather than mortgage derivatives, the economy would be in better shape.

Comment #46: Neil the Ethical Werewolf  on  01/24  at  01:21 PM

OT, but talking about yesterday being a good day to be a feminist, this didn’t get much coverage and it appears way down in most of the stories:

In a related move, Obama also said he would restore funding to the U.N. Population Fund (UNFPA). Both he and Clinton had pledged to reverse a Bush administration determination that assistance to the organization violated U.S. law known as the Kemp-Kasten amendment.
...
The Bush administration had barred U.S. money from the fund, contending that its work in China supported a Chinese family planning policy of coercive abortion and involuntary sterilization. UNFPA has vehemently denied that it does.

In other words, forced birthers told outlandish stories about how UNFPA funds were used to force women in China to have abortions and even though several investigations proved they were not, Bush cut the funding off anyway.

So much for Bush being so great about AIDS in Africa.

Comment #47: Mnemosyne  on  01/24  at  02:03 PM

I don’t know about that. Again, without being too specific, I was no stranger to self-pleasure in my youth, and I still had some pain. It wasn’t awful, but it was uncomfortable - just something to get through so we could do it again and do it better the next time. Afterward, we were both laughing and kind of giddy cause hey, we did it, and then he saw the blood and totally freaked out.

Yes, and I should have added that everyone’s experience varies, of course.  But I suspect that for many young women, some of the pain is due to fear or anxiety (will it fit?  what if it hurts?) about the whole mechanics part of it.

Sexuality being as complicated as it is, of course this is not the only factor.  But I think we could save young women a lot of grief by encouraging them to take things into their own hands.

Comment #48: LauraB  on  01/24  at  02:28 PM

Neil and Essie, I got the same message that my screenname was unavailable when I tried registering, and the same message when I tried to log in saying that the screenname was not found in the database.  I then went back and tried registering again, with the same screenname, and it worked.  I have no idea why.

Comment #49: snowmentality  on  01/24  at  03:18 PM

Did you ever see Kinsey?  Clara’s problem hymen is an important plot point since it was one of the things that made Kinsey decide that we all needed to talk about sex more often.

Mnemosyne, thanks for the tip! I hadn’t seen it, but I will now. Even today, it’s a pretty unknown condition, so it’s nice to hear that there’s some references to it floating out in popular culture. It took me about a decade before I finally got a diagnosis. None of my female friends - even the one who was training to be a midwife - or my mom ever had an explanation for why I couldn’t use tampons. Even my GP, when I finally asked her to do a pelvic exam (I’d never had one because I was still a “virgin”) told me that tampons were tricky to use the first few times (I’d be menstruating for, like 10 years at this point!)

And, of course, the thought of what would pop up if I typed “deformed vagina” into google was too terrifying to even consider.

Comment #50: Floyd  on  01/24  at  04:14 PM

I mean, $3.8 million buys a lot of houses.  Maybe if Lehman had invested in virginity-backed securities rather than mortgage derivatives, the economy would be in better shape.

Well, for a start, perhaps they might have seen the possibility of that bubble popping…

Comment #51: Phoenician in a time of Romans  on  01/24  at  05:00 PM

oh, PiaToR, OUCH! that was painful…

and *I* LIKE puns…...

Comment #52: denelian  on  01/24  at  11:20 PM

Well, while everyone is sharing… I have been, well, exploratory of my self at a very young age and I don’t think I ever had a hymen… My mom has said she never noticed anything in her, either. It hurt a little the first time I had sex, but I think that was probably cuz I was very nervous, and probably didn’t use enough lube either.. i didn’t bleed or anything. I had had 2 or 3 gyn exams before i ever had sex to get BC, and those never hurt, they were just uncomfortable, and still are.

Comment #53: slingshot  on  01/25  at  02:28 AM

At the risk of TMI…

I go through long dryspells between sexual partners.  Every first time with every guy is somewhat uncomfortable.  I never thought about it, but I guess mine stretches instead of breaks.  Should I be charging these guys, say, $10,000 for each “first time”?

Comment #54: speedbudget  on  01/25  at  10:56 AM

I think that we over romanticize sex, instead of viewing it as the biological imperative that it is.  The first time, or the thousandth time, it is still sex.  I also see the overvaluation of virginity as problematic because patriarchy uses it to control womens sexual behaviors.

Comment #55: womanistmusings  on  01/25  at  04:14 PM

Apart from the whole excitement about losing my virginity thing, I felt quite guilty and uncomfortable about the experience, although subsequent events would prove it was a necessary evil.

Of course it’s a necessary evil, you can’t only have second-and-after times.

WM, I don’t know about “imperative.” Act, maybe.

Comment #56: Hershele Ostropoler  on  01/25  at  08:10 PM

speedbudget - my first serious girlfriend was like that.  More than 5-7 days between PiV sex and she’d be quite sore.  I think it’s just that some women are naturally tighter and without regular stretching will revert to being sized for a Neocon, IYKWIM.

Comment #57: togolosh  on  01/25  at  09:16 PM

An excellent argument for a much higher marginal tax rate on the wealthy.
Althoujgh, like others, I think this is a hoax. And wow, Tina Brown is definitely consorting with the minor leagues, there. Tucker Carlson? Tucker Carlson? Tucker… you get my point.

Amanda, you should drop Tina a line and offer to write a column that would actually be read over there. She has money, from somewhere. And she desperately needs somebody interesting to write for her.

Comment #58: rogerwg  on  01/25  at  10:44 PM

hooray for rich idiots.

Comment #59: JonE  on  01/25  at  10:55 PM

Presuming the transaction is legit, I’d suggest that the kind of man who fetishizes the “power” attached to taking the virginity of a woman might also see value in the “power” attached to the idea of beating other men to that prize with his great and impressive financial clout.

There are a lot of men, especially those who see various kinds of sex worker, who sexually fetishize money and attaching it to sex.

Comment #60: hexy  on  01/26  at  10:45 AM

This is reminding me of Memoirs of a Geisha…

Comment #61: Essie Elephant  on  01/26  at  02:12 PM

Two stories:

My dad was a backwoods doctor in a Latin America country. He routinely got parents (mostly fathers) or husbands dragging their daughters or wives by the hair demanding that they be examined to see if they had had sex recently. My dad routinely lied that the women in question had not. Dad said he could not bring himself to get a woman beaten or worse just for doing something everyone did so he lied as much as he could. Of course he couldn’t lie all the time or the people in the town would realize he was lying, so he had to rat some women out. But only those who didn’t face death, beatings or expulsion from home.

A friend of mine - young male - has not had sex and is 21. He tells me he wants to marry a virgin so that she doesn’t compare him unfavorably with other men she has had. His insecurity is what drives him to prize virginity, not religion. A virgin will supposedly be grateful, unable to judge the man and less likely to cheat on him, since she is so inexperienced and has low sexuality - how else would she be able to stay virgin ? I suspect that is the case for many men who prize virginity. It’s not the hymen they prize, it’s the low libido and lack of experience / material for comparison.

Comment #62: Renmiri  on  01/26  at  07:00 PM
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